speaker-0: I watched the most epic sunrise of my entire life and I realized I never thought I would see one of those again. Second thought, whoa, wow. That's incredible. Third thought, how have I never been grateful for that memory? You know, and so that's where I made that decision to go to treatment to help.

speaker-1: Welcome to the Giving Game, the only show where professional athletes are banned from talking about their sport. That's right. No stats, no game recaps, no media trained answers. I'm your host, Sophie Weitzel, and every episode we find out who these athletes actually are when the cameras stop rolling and the jerseys come off. We're talking untold stories, questionable life decisions, dating disasters, money, family, fame, philanthropy, and all the stuff their PR teams would probably prefer skate off the internet. But here's the twist. Every episode is tied to a charity or cause chosen by the athlete. So while we're exposing personalities, we're also raising real money and driving measurable impact for the organizations that matter. There are only three rules on this show: no sports talk, no filters, raise as much money as possible. So if you've ever wondered what athletes are really like off the field, welcome to the Giving Game. Let the game begin. We are just so so excited to have you here today and Just so happy to hear about your cause and why you're here. And just giving you a little heads up. There are only three rules on our show. The first rule: no sports talk or wrestling, MMA, any any kind of that talk. We don't want to hear it. You've been asked a million times. Two is please no PR generic, all I want for the world is world peace, you know, kind of beauty pageant answers. We want real, we want Justin, we want to know who you are. And so just keeping it real with with everybody out here. And then the last is we're gonna try to raise as much as we can for a fight for the forgotten and wanna see what we can do for you. So welcome, Justin Ren. Thank you.

speaker-0: Well, that's very generous. It's red. Thank you so much. And if we're raising funds, we have two matching gifts, meaning that anything raised won't just be doubled, it'd be triple. And so that's pretty incredible, right? Yeah. So let's say it was ten thousand dollars, it'd become third. Right? Like that's pretty amazing. It's an opportunity a lot of charities want to nonprofits, 501c3s want to get, you know, a matching donor. And that way they can share. With new donors, that their impact will go even further. And so we just happen to be in this place where where it's three X and we're very grateful for that.

speaker-1: Holy cow, man. That's incredible. Well, let's take about a hundred steps back and just have you tell me what is Fight for the Forgotten. Tell everybody what you do and and what kind of started this for you.

speaker-0: I would say it's a very unique nonprofit in the way that we're probably the only one focused on an indigenous people group, specifically the pygmy people, the Mabutsi and the Epe, and the Batwa, who I happen to be second family with. I got adopted into the tribe. This work started in 2011. Well, I say that like not just like some short honorary thing, like like ceremony, like it was. The real deal, and that's my second family. And it's happened numerous times while I'm there. I have my own name, my own family, and ⁓ you know, I've got to spend more than three years there. And so I guess my story is one from fighting against people to fighting for people. But what we do is we build better lives for the pygmy people and their communities and their neighbors through holistic community development. So that might be land ownership rights, which when we met them, ⁓ when I met them, they had zero. And they're the oldest people group in Africa, potentially the world. ⁓ and you know, the first citizens of Congo, the first citizens of Uganda, yeah, they didn't have an acre to their name. So we've helped them get back over 3,000 acres of land that belongs to them. It's a whole lot more work to do there. We've helped over 100,000 people get access to clean water, but we do it in a a different approach, ⁓ I I believe a more sustainable approach, a slower approach. Harder approach, but it's it's it's worthwhile because there's over 230,000 broken water wells in Africa right now. And I think the traditional model is kind of the show up, blow up, blow out technique, announce your arrival at the parade, go a party, get pictures, piece out, pretend like it's always going to exist. And it wasn't done with locally affordable parts, locally available parts, and just maybe the subliminal message and if. If you are talking to a bunch of athletes, it's like maybe they were the players on the field, but then a new team comes in and kind of, you know, kind of says, Hey, your spots up there in the bleachers with sidelines. You can't do this for yourself. So we're here to do it for you. And that approach is what is still the most used. Not that it's necessarily totally wrong. It's good intent and heartfelt. But it's why I passed ten broken wells on my last trip before I passed one functioning well and it was heartbreaking. Heartbreaking. And so it's not a local solution to a local problem in most cases. And and we try to be the exact opposite of that, making sure that 108 wells we've done, the more than 200 water projects, that they're all still functioning. So it's a slower approach and it's harder. We could have done over a thousand by now, but we're not like running from one place to another. And So yeah, I think I think also we do farms. No, I think I I know we do farms, and we just opened a critical access hospital for a community where the nearest health center was over three hours away. And so I'd say our model really is from land development and infrastructure and water farming, better farming practices, improved structures or shelters and homes to then education, healthcare. And sustainable livelihoods and sustainable livelihoods is mixed in there the whole time. So from carpentry, welding, beekeeping, hairdressing, tailoring, lots of other stuff as well, to to teach the community that traditionally hasn't been paid in money. They've been hunter-gatherers and then evicted from the rainforest. And so their plight is that they're their average height's four foot seven for the men. So they're physically literally looked down upon, but then figuratively as well. Like they're seen as by many people groups and governments that they're not equal to them. ⁓ they're less than. And that's not true. Of course, they're one of the most amazing, beautiful, incredible people I've ever met. Some of the smartest, brightest, maybe not literate in the way of like being able to read and write if if they haven't gone to school, but they could survive in that forest better than anybody else. And it was

speaker-1: Resourceful.

speaker-0: Merciful and yeah, some of the most compassionate, loving human beings I've ever met. And so we're wanting to preserve their people groups, their culture, and uplift them out of poverty. I would say like taking them from really in their words, barely surviving to hopefully one day thriving.

speaker-1: It's amazing. I so I want to go back to, you know, you said a lot of people have great intentions building the wells. ⁓ and and I've seen that, and I've seen that with groups of of athletes that that may do that. And so you're saying you've been there for a long period of time and you've seen how those wells aren't sustainable. So is there anything maybe they it and maybe they don't know that? So is there anything that maybe they could do differently to ensure that they don't have that problem anymore? Yes.

speaker-0: Slow down. Yeah, slow down. Slow down and get to know people. Slow down and listen. Meaning and look, busy professional athletes or celebrities or business folks or people on a mission trip that have real jobs here, right? And families here. You know, when you have when you have seven days to go fix a real problem, it's not enough time. ⁓ and so it needs to be a local workforce. Like when you sit and actually listen to the people, which I've been doing this since two thousand eleven. And for the first two and a half, three years, it was really just staying in the communities, living with the communities, listening to the communities, asking questions, and like really trying to figure out how to become a well-rounded organization to not just meet one need and do the one thing, which I understand like the premise of that. But I come from wrestling jujitsu and in the May. And the only thing I'll say sports wise to apply back to this. Is that you can't be a one trick pony. And if if you know one move and that's it, or if you just do one thing, you can be the best in the world at that. But but it it's just human beings in communities are complex. ⁓ right. There's lots of complexity that comes around along with it. And so not every that one solution doesn't mean it's the right solution for every community. So there has to be approach.

speaker-1: You're saying these communities are almost begging to give us a fishing pole, not a fish. Like help

speaker-0: When you listen, they say, equip us with the tools, educate us with the knowledge, empower us to be the change in our own community. And they say if we if if all we can do is hold our hand out for what they're offering, because we're never gonna see them again. Because the you know, they're they're in and out. Right. Then then that's what we're forced to do is put our hand out. But we're we're honestly tired of that and it's robbing us of dignity. That I can't be part of the solution. So could you stay longer? Could you stay a while? Could you build a team? Could you really make sure that we have a phone number for the person that came in and did it or the team that came in and did it in case something goes wrong, like someone can come back out. But even that's a broken approach because if someone has to come back from the West to fix it, right? And spend at least $3,000 round trip, right? And then bring all the tools and there's not a local supply chain. It it makes it really difficult. So I'm not I'm not criticizing any of that. I'm saying that I saw I saw a really broken system and heard how broken it was from the people who who would tell me ⁓ when I saw a a a on a f well not functioning. And where we go, we go where that stuff normally hasn't ever been there. We go to the very hard to reach, really remote, really rural. but most people think it's really remote and really rural whenever. It's really not. And behind a tree or behind a building, like there's a well there while they're drilling another one, you know, 100 yards away. And so whenever they have clean water for themselves, their kids, and they're able to go to work longer, the kids able to go to school for the first time, and they're able to make you know, not just take these pills that cure the waterborne illness with clean water. Well, for at first, they're Drinking those fills with our, you know, with dirty water. Right. Just to help them survive, but not really to like heal. Then they get clean water and they get to do And then their system gets cleaned out and they're healthier, a lot healthier, feeling better. And then that well goes down in 12 months, 18 months, maybe 24 months. It's gonna need some sort of maintenance, just like a car when you drive at 3,000 miles, right? It's gonna need oil change or it's gonna need a belt at some point. Yeah. And so then when they have to go back. to that dirty water after they've had access to clean water. Like it's so demoralizing because they know it's not just gonna make them sick, like they might lose a child.

speaker-1: Mm-hmm. There no ig there's no ignorance to that anymore. You know, they know. And I I do have a question for you just because of my ex and I've never been. I would love to go over there and and see, but you know, I've been doing some travel nurse things and ⁓ we we have some nurses on our team that are from Uganda that came over as ref as refugees, right? And so I I jokingly said to one of the girls, I said, What was ⁓ to be on be honest with me, what was your experience with Americans when you first met them? She is like patronizing as hell. And I was like, Really? You know, and then I thought about it and I'm like, Yeah, I mean, I get that. She's like, Okay, imagine, you know, we in a lot of our cultures, people worship ancest their ancestors. Okay. And and you have someone who you don't know who's coming into our culture and saying, Nope. This is the guy you're supposed to, you know, and I think people have great intentions. Okay. There's not, you know, but I was like, I guess I never looked at it that way as wow, that could, you know. And I thought if somebody came into my world and said, You need to be doing things this way, this is a better way to do things. This is how you're gonna do it. I thought, man, how you're right. That would be so freaking patronizing and just almost like, who the hell do you think you are? And I'm wondering if you ever had any experiences like that where people are like, ⁓ thank you for being for listening and trying to adapt to our culture instead of coming in and telling us what we need to do differently. Yeah.

speaker-0: ⁓ yes, of course. I mean, we hear it all the time, especially after years, right? Years of commitment and showing back up in the same places and hosting meetings and gatherings where everyone gets to have a voice, children even get to speak. And and and so we hear it all the time that you know our approach is so different and that's why they appreciate it. Is I mean the patronizing part is yes, like I I see groups getting on planes and going over and it's not bad necessarily but whenever 10 20 people spend three grand each to go on this round trip thing that's what thirty thousand sixty thousand dollars and they get there and they get there help repair a few doors and paint a fence and paint the outside of a building and the people the local people appreciate it deeply appreciate it however it doesn't make any sense to them too because they appreciate people wanting to help But they're confused that, like, man, I know let's say Liomay or or I know Everest, and they're both painters. And they're in this community. And those people drive by it from their hotel to our church site or our school site. Every day they pass his office where he's doing his best to like get business for painting. And now all these people came in to do it for free, didn't provide local jobs. You know, and they think we can't paint for ourselves. We just couldn't afford the paint, you know. Like you could paint paint it with you and be part of this.

speaker-1: That makes sense. Yeah, that's incredible.

speaker-0: And so it's it's a it's a unique thing. It is a problem, but it's shifting. People are starting to have a lot more foresight or th afterthought, like, you know, sometimes helping hurts or hinders or hampers or harms. And how can we how can we do better? Like how can we be better? So that's the question we're always trying to ask ourselves is what are they actually wanting? ⁓ what are their ideas, values? What are they going to take ownership of? What are they going to take action upon? What's going to make them really proud? And what are their first and foremost, what are their priorities to see done here? Because yeah, if I come in to say, well, this is what we know you need because it worked in my home, it's like this is a different country, culture, context, community. Yeah. And who am I to say what they need or have to do? Right. Like I do have a different perspective. And that's valuable too, but not as valuable as their perspective from all their experience living there. And when you empower the people who are locals who are even deeply deeper connected to the problem because they've lost family members or they've been sick with waterborne disease, or they used to have to go on those lava water walks. And then they get included and elevated and like meaning like. They're they're growing, they become a water engineer and because they were so passionate about it and they got to be a day laborer on the well site. And then but they had a high school education. They're like, hey, or I need a few more classes, and then I can go to college and I can get be a water engineer. Like ⁓ Everest is one that I brought up, but Olive is our others. And Olive is an incredible human being that is I couldn't imagine me thinking I could do her job better than her. Or I would bring someone else in to do it. Now I would bring someone else to transfer some knowledge, maybe up level and things like that. But that's gonna be from one expert to another expert. That's not gonna be me bringing ⁓ water wheel drilling is really hard and really technical. And it's it's not for the faint of art. And so I've been asked a ton, hey, by people who have never done it, right? It's almost like fight fans or someone that's a casual fan. Coming up to an MMA fighting saying, Hey, I think in a few months I'll be in the UFC. Like, it's like, Whoa, whoa, that's not how it happens, right? So someone's saying, Hey, I'm gonna come over and help you drill a well. It's like, well, you know, like ⁓ we have some purple, brown, and black belt level drillers. And you haven't done it from one day. You don't even have your white belt yet. Like, how is that going? How does that make sense for us to bring you over, sit them on the sidelines and say, Hey, I brought This guy with a really excited and really enthusiastic to come out. And now it's not saying no, it's saying that like what people are good at if they're gonna go and volunteer. Like for instance, your nurse friend from Uganda. We just opened a critical access hospital. All of our hospital staff is from Uganda. We have staff housing built. And now that she if she ever were to go back to Uganda and want to contribute some of that knowledge to some of her own, I'm sure she's American now, but To some Ugandans like her first country, like that would make sense to bring her into the maternity ward with the midwives or to the pharmacist or our lab tech or our chief medical officer. How could we run this more smoothly and efficiently from your perspective of being Ugandan? Now an American nurse, how can we bridge that gap?

speaker-1: Do you guys take any volunteers like ⁓ so somebody like me who was like, ⁓ I love what you're doing, Justin? And I would love I I'm I'm not a well digger by any means. You don't want me doing that. But if I were a person that was like, Hey, I could come in and show them how to, you know, take care of people in a hospital or something like that, do you take those volunteers, experts from America and say, Hey, do you want to come and and help them or show them? Or is it more specialized than that? Yeah.

speaker-0: I wouldn't know if I'd say it's more specialized in that. And I don't want this podcast to come off as like we're doing things differently or better, or we've we say no to people, or you know it's it's ⁓ it's not a no, it's a not yet. We haven't done it. And it's it's just because there's there's a terminology and but it's how I started. I s I s I went I went for two weeks on a volunteer trip, ⁓ a scout mission to see if there's any

speaker-1: Understood.

speaker-0: practical, tangible way to make a difference, whether it was that first trip or just like a reconnaissance mission, come back and then make a plan. I I'm the one that's kept going back and I didn't know it'd be my calling. I went with another nonprofit in 51c3. And so it's not a it for us though, there's a terminology called voluntarism that we've learned about and It's just like, man, like instead of it being like, let's go see the gorillas and the the giraffes and the lions and the crocodiles. And then in between there, we'll go do something that helps us feel good and them feel good. And we'll end it with another luxury part of a, you know, stay out at this nice hotel. The interesting thing is trying to figure out how to do how to do it with expert volunteers. And that's why we're building this next phase called Base Camp, where we can host some

speaker-1: Sure.

speaker-0: an OBGYN to come in and help our midwife staff ⁓ and in the delivery room or a water engineer or some sort of engineer coming in and teaching our engineers or ⁓ some construction teams that can come in and help our local construction teams on the school. Maybe there's one section they can really help and like have oversight or just at least some feedback for our team while they're go on and build the other stages on it.

speaker-1: Amazing. I and you know, and I can just feel it in your energy. I'm a big energy person, but I can just feel it in your energy how excited and how passionate you are about this. And I guess my question is, what is it that they what hole did they fill within you? Because obviously there's a reason that you are so passionate about this group of people, and they had to have healed something within you to make you want to give back.

speaker-0: Well, I I had hit a very I'd hit rock bottom, very broken place with addiction, a suicide attempt, went to treatment for substance use disorder. And whenever I got out by chance, well, I'd started volunteering at the children's hospital in Denver. I'd started volunteering at the Denver Rescue Mission for those that were experiencing homelessness or were unhoused. But it was kind of shotgunned, you know, it was here, there, and Anywhere and everywhere's a hundred correctional facilities with juvenile detention, women's units, ⁓ wholesome San Quentin and Texas Death Road. Like it was it was it was anywhere I could help make a difference. I really wanted to. But we we call ourselves the forgotten. ⁓ Even their story of kind of like the beginning of time, they were the forgotten people. And I know what it feels like to feel forgotten at the lunch table, sitting by myself most days at school, maybe not on the same level or depth. And I was really heavily bullied. That's why I found martial arts. And this is anthropologists say they're some of the most oppressed people to ever exist. ⁓ in other words, some of the most bullied, neglected, rejected from society. And I didn't know I would have a mother place her son in my hands named Andy Bo, and that about ninety seconds after holding him, he would take his last breath. And he he passed a water related illness. And so I bought the shovel, bought the casket, but stopped by the health center that was far away and asked, you know, what's the treatment for water, water moored illness, water related disease. It was one dollar for the pills, it was three dollars for the shot. It was six dollars for the shovel. It was thirty for the casket. It just did not make sense. And it shouldn't exist. It's completely preventable, whether through clean water or medication, or the combination of both. And so his mother and Liome, the chief, like they were through the pain and the grief and the like healing process and me staying around a little bit more. Like the they said. Start with water. Like start with water. And I think societies, like whether we look at age of people groups, and where do they a lot of them normally live alongside a coastline or a river and or a spring. But like to for for them to have like never had access to like clean, fresh water, just made no sense. And so that's where it began. It's where a lot of the passion comes from. But honestly, it's from seeing kids be born and Holding them and you know, I say that about Andy Bo, but a maternity ward we opened about two months ago. we already had 12 healthy births and 12 healthy mamas and 12 healthy babies there. And this isn't where I began thinking, like, ⁓ we're gonna get them land rights, but when I and then we're gonna build a hospital. It it all kind of came from their ideas and their vision for themselves, their vision for the future. And You know, what's a guy that used to either be sent by the hospital because of my job, or I've sending other dudes, my opponents to the hospital with no medical background whatsoever. What am I who do I think I am to even help build ⁓ a a medical clinic and and a critical access hospital? And but it's all came to be and things fall into place. Like whenever we start taking steps in that direction, it's like here's a need. Can we meet it? And so For instance, the land I never bought land for myself in my own nation. And what am I doing thinking I could buy land in Congo or Uganda? And where do you even start? But if they don't own the land, or you know, do they own that water? Right? Like if you just show up, bunch of hole in the ground and run, like who really owns that? If it's in someone's backyard, can they just build a fence around it and say, No, this one's ours? It happens.

speaker-1: Yeah. So d why did they not have rights to this land? I guess that's where I'm confused. Yeah. What happened? Well

speaker-0: Let's see how I could try to summarize it or make it relatable.

speaker-1: Dumb it down for me, Justin. Dumb it down.

speaker-0: Did the American government say Native Americans ever owned the the land, right? Eventually they gave them like a r of pieces of land that they would call reservations, right? But before that there was land disputes about it. And I would say similarly to the indigenous people there, anywhere the Congo Basin rainforces, which spans across eight, nine or ten African nations, it's huge. Second largest rainforest in the world. Anywhere that rainforest is, the pygmy people are represented. And they go by different names: the Mabuchi, the Fe, the Batwa, the Baca, Aka, Bayaka, and some others. And but yeah, they they just have never owned any land. And so in Uganda specifically, they were living in the rainforest and then evicted from the rainforest. ⁓ and so you're no longer able to live there. And then they're like, Well, where can we go? And they're like, find. Somewhere to be. And no one would. I mean, they lived as refugees in their own nation, having to go from place to place, being squatters. And then eventually over 300 people, the only people I know that have ever had land there weren't given or it wasn't legal, but it was here's less than one acre plot of land behind a slum that where all the trash is, you can post up here. And it was where a sewer was running through it. And a little trash dump. And that's the only spot that they could like settle, but it wasn't theirs. And so they could do it was this insecurity of it was of it was rice bags that they would lay on. And they had built a small structure. And they all just laid shoulder to shoulder, feet to head. and the door was made of just rice bags. And so I'd come from the Congo side. Where they're able to live more in line with their traditional way of life in the rainforest, but it's all being snatched up by surrounding people groups for China and India and other nations and kind of mercenary type groups, whether it's for gold, diamonds, coal tan, lithium, uranium, oil, or mostly which makes it really hard for them to sustain themselves, is they're cutting down the trees. And when they cut down the trees. Which they believe hosts the spirits of their ancestors. It's heartbreaking, but it also makes the animals scared and skittish and go deeper and deeper and deeper to where they can't hunt and gather. So they become more vulnerable. And that land is bought up from underneath them and was never theirs to begin with. And then they're told you can't live here, or they're enslaved on that land, literally enslaved. So four to six hundred thousand people in the Congo. Of the Mabuti and Faye currently right now are enslaved. And so never paid any financial means. Work from sunup to sundown and maybe get paid in one or two bananas or a small handful of peanuts or a half broken bar of like a motel six bar of soap. ⁓ and so that's why we were like, We gotta start with land or some of these people could have it as like a safe refuge that's theirs. It belongs to them. So legally we we hold the paperwork and also lawyers in those nations hold the paperwork, but they get documents and laminated to make sure it doesn't get rained on and and and ruined. But it's got it's handwritten, it's typed out, it's signatures, it's thumb prints, it's to make sure no one can say I didn't sign that. Well, here's your fingerprint. ⁓

speaker-1: Yeah. That's I mean that's incredible. And there's so much but I want to say about, you know, just I wanna start with ⁓ you know, ⁓ and I ⁓ love that you're telling me the story here, and but I think what you could do to really help people is to say ⁓ and I'm just gonna speak for myself, like I know for a really long time I never felt like I had a place. Right. Like I was an athlete, but I also didn't really super buy into every I also like liked nerdy things. And I liked, you know, hanging out with different groups of people. And I never really completely bought in to one group. And there, you know, and I realized after 34 years of life that I just never felt like I had a place. I never really fit in with my family. I always thought a little bit differently. And I feel like when You know, and when I created this, it was like, ⁓ I have a place. Like this is my place because it's I created it, you know, and people can come from all walks of life and you don't have to fit into a certain box here, right? You you can be an athlete, but you can also care about these things and you can have this, you know, this outlet. But what I'm what I'm my question is for you is do you feel like when you met these people that you were like, wow, I feel like I have a place and it's healed. a part of me where I never felt like I was enough or I didn't feel like I had a place. That's my question.

speaker-0: The answer is yes. The answer is that I would get home. I found home and it was the first and only place I would get homesick for. Whenever I would come home, I was homesick for there. Homesick for the forest, I was homesick for my family there. Not that I don't love my big mama's boy. I love her. And not until I was married would I get homesick for anybody else. And so, you know, I feel like I was given a second home.

speaker-1: Sure. ⁓

speaker-0: That felt like my first home and had some sort of deeper connection than I can explain. Even how I got there, honestly, is wild. And it was something greater than myself that took me there and confirmed supposed to be there over and over and over again. ⁓ I've had malaria six times, three times were really, really bad.

speaker-1: ⁓ god. ⁓ my god.

speaker-0: One one time for sure I almost died, but probably more like two. Lost thirty-three pounds in five days. I was only red and green, blood and bile. I had some called black water fever. I couldn't urinate for five days. When I finally could, it was like sticky black tar basically. And so like why why would you want to go back there? Well, like that's that's what they go through all the time. And it was it was, you know, what I mean, that's not an honor or a privilege to get Larry. I would try to avoid it, but

speaker-1: It's eye opening.

speaker-0: I openly opening it gave me even a deeper perspective of like the struggles they've been through and how they're survivors and and they're they're overcomers and they're warriors and the greatest thing about them is the purity of their love and generosity and how much they have despite having materialistically almost nothing. They have each other. And they have anything that they have. They taught me, they taught me what it's like to live a grateful life and just having gratitude as like accountenance, just walking with it, just having it, owning it and and knowing it's always there. Like grateful for anything and everything you have. And also I I'm I'm a little bit of I know why I'm a little fired up today, but I'm a little bit of a like a protector, a guarder of of of them and their voice. But also you know, they taught me how to walk around with like joy. Like they have this contagious joy. And I think normally when I walk into a room, I just ⁓ I smile when I see people because it's like, wow, I get to meet this other human, I get to meet you today. And that's epic for me. And to hear where this mission and place came for you. And so I just think there are ancestors and I'll be doing this till my last breath. There can't stop, won't stop. This isn't some

speaker-1: I love it.

speaker-0: Isn't something maybe what typically I think fans think of athletes starting a foundation as like, ⁓ that's a passion of theirs. Or that's that's something that that that they wanted to do on a as a side hustle. Or or that's a way that they get to give back and contribute. Or for the more skeptical people, ⁓ that's their like the way they get tax benefits. You know, they start this foundation and they get to do it for, you know, a couple hours a ⁓ a year. No, this thing I want to Live me, outgrow me. I hope I get to hand it off to people that will continue to run it. And I want to be in all eight or nine African nations where the pygmy people are, and it to really benefit in a way that we can open source this and say, Hey, you don't have to be side roading to one thing. You can do a big change on a small scale that's like not just improving lives temporarily, but is like changing generations.

speaker-1: Yeah, that's I incredible. I mean, incredible. I'm very I'm so moved. I do I want to I I wanna ask you. You said you're married, so I I I kind of pride myself on the fact that I don't really research my guests because I want it to be like an authentic connection, right? But I did have like a really awkward experience. And luckily he laughed about it, but it was with Nate Boyer as my first ever podcast screen. He goes and

speaker-0: I went up to Kill Madero with him.

speaker-1: He's amazing, right? And I so I get on and I'm like, hey, you know, everybody, I did this intro where I'm like, you know, this is Nate, blah, blah, blah, loving husband and father. And he was like, ⁓ that was great, Sophie, except for I've never been married and I don't have kids. And I was like, What? And he was like dying laughing. And I go, Wait a minute, Nate, have you not ever Googled yourself? And he was like, No, I haven't. So I made him Google himself right on the podcast. And it there was a podcast that was a husband and wife, and the the husband was in the military, and they had a podcast about how Their polygamous relationship saved their marriage. And I was like, my social, my manager said five times, like, Sophie, do not ask him about this. Do not, you know. And so I did. And I'm like, wait a minute, what? And he goes, ⁓ my gosh, Nate and Courtney. ⁓ yeah, not me. Wrong Nate Boyer. And so ever since then, I've had like PTSD about maybe having the wrong person or you know, Googling the wrong person. So I added you on Instagram because I wanted to make sure, you know, it was the right guy. And I have to say your wedding tux was my favorite thing I think I've ever seen. It was the most badass thing I've ever seen. I was like, hell yeah, dude. And your wife looked absolutely stunning. And I'm like, these are the most epic wedding photos I think I've ever seen. And yeah, you guys looked incredible. So Amy

speaker-0: Call her my human disco ball, so you can see that reflected in her dress. It's all shiny. And then just a little ⁓ inside scoop. Everything on the front that's embroidered on my suit. It's kind of like a western vibe, kind of like an Austin African Western vibe in Sedona, where we got married. But everything on the front basically represents her except the two F's, which represent fight for the forgotten. And then on my sleeves and on my back is everything representing ⁓ the pygmy people. So there's the Cotton of Africa, there's the rainforest, there's the rivers that I lived on both sides of. There's their bows and arrows, there's their spears. And so since we couldn't bring them here for the wedding, I wanted them to feel part of it and to to to

speaker-1: I I'm a little I'm a little shocked. I'm a little shocked that you didn't have a ceremony there, to be honest.

speaker-0: Well we we're gonna have a reception there. So yeah, we just haven't yet. So Ebola's there right now and some other things. She has been there.

speaker-1: She has. Awesome. And she and she felt the same

speaker-0: I would say she felt some deep love for them. In fact, the maternity ward wouldn't exist. That critical access hospital, but also it was her sitting down with the women, actually them coming and asking her to come sit with them with our COO, Zoe, who's one of the biggest powerhouse human beings I've ever met. And Zoe and Amy were sitting with them and they asked if they could start something within or alongside Fight for the Forgotten called Fight for Her. Could it be a women's initiative that would support the tailoring or the women's sustainable livelihoods? Could it also support women's health, which is the maternity care? And then could it could it support the girls going to school for the first time? Because then air school's over two hours away. So fight for her is an initiative alongside us. And it's the the women's spearheading it. And they have meetings often, I think every week. And talk about how initiatives are going and coming along and what could they do next. And we just had our second graduation of Taylors and that's what Pike for Her started. So

speaker-1: Amazing. So you guys are kind of newlyweds, right?

speaker-0: Yeah, not even a year yet. So still in the ⁓

speaker-1: Honeymoon, I love it, I love it. So with her, I guess that's my question. How do you how do you know that she's the one? How did you know? Was there a feeling that you had where you're like, this is it, man?

speaker-0: I knew early, early, early on. I knew it. Although we're both, she had been divorced, I'd been divorced, and we both weren't thinking of marriage again. I honestly didn't think I would ever get married again. And when I met her, I just I knew. But all throughout it too, like who she is, how she shows up. She's my greatest daily inspiration, without a shadow of a doubt. No one inspires me like she does. And then whenever she came to Uganda the first trip, I was like. First day was a little rough. There was like an iguana in the room and then like this giant spider and then like a bat and then and then this was like night one. And so and I built

speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. She was a trooper, obviously. ⁓

speaker-0: shower that obviously wasn't heated from like one of our water towers. And the second day I was just like, Okay, she's she's still here. She didn't run. And then seeing her with holding hands with the little girls and and the moms coming up and putting their arms around her and I was just like Yeah, yeah, pass with flying colors. Like it's time to do this. So actually after that trip, we met up with some friends in Egypt and that's where I asked her to So it's a merity. We're already halfway there, so

speaker-1: Okay, actually I did see that and I saw the pyramids post and I was like, Jesus, Justin, you're really setting the bar high for all these guys. I was like, dang, this is amazing. Holy crap. Yeah, I mean, good for you, man. I like hearing stories like yeah, I think hearing your story still, like, you know, you see things online all the time where maybe it makes you question if you're like, I'm still like a hopeless romantic, I guess, to where I'm like, you know, I want that, I want that feeling, right? Like the one you just told me. Where it's like when you see them, you just know. And I've had people say, No, that's toxic, Sophie. Like that's just being love bombed or whatever and I'm like, I want to still have faith that that feeling exists.

speaker-0: I think that for Amy and I one, we feel so grateful because we know you know it didn't happen the first time for us. So you know, we I I guess I could have gone to the grave and never have experienced this type of love. But I sure hope everyone gets to to experience it and find it. And I think we had to work for it. No, no, I know we did. We had to fight for it at times. Like the first two years there was I mean, it was mostly ups, but there was some downs that were on my part. You know, COVID had happened and and I had had a surgery and I'd relapsed with oxy and and some other things. And it was dark and I pulled myself out of it, but then it happened again. And then I needed help out of it. So that was my second time in treatment. And she could have easily walked and and was going to. And I just told her like, I get it. But I'm gonna keep showing up and I hope you'll you'll give me another I'm almost four years sober now and and back on you.

speaker-1: I'm so excited. It's amazing.

speaker-0: So I think we got some of the tough stuff out up front. And then it's been how do we continue to just grow together? And I think it's a growth mindset. She's got it and keeps me on my toes. I thought I had a really big growth mindset wanting to become better, do better, become more. But she she's she further down the road than me on that. And so

speaker-1: Yeah. So s so people that maybe might be listening to this right now that might say, you know, well, he got that. He's a star. I'm never gonna have this, you know, or I I'm an addict or I'm dating an addict, right? How how what is some advice that you would give on finding love after addiction?

speaker-0: That's really hard. I hate that I put my mother through it, Amy through it, my friends and coaches and teammates through it. anyone who's ever supported Fike for the Free Hotden, right? Like I've it held me back a long time thinking like I can't be the founder of a nonprofit whenever I have a dignitive. Yeah, for sure. So

speaker-1: That shame is a real

speaker-0: So much.

speaker-1: Real driving force for a lot of things. Yeah.

speaker-0: But I would say I would say I would say that Amy did it in a really healthy way for me, being supportive, meaning she's like, You gotta face it all, feel it all, because like that's where the magic happens. And you must learn to love yourself like your life depends on. Because for a dude like you, it absolutely does. And so she did it where she was kind of hands-off, meaning like, Okay, you say you're gonna show up. Doesn't mean I'm gonna enable stuff and be codependent. And so I'd say that there's a there's a there's a metaphor. ⁓ ⁓ be a lighthouse, not a lifeguard. And meaning like I mean, for a guy like me, I've had to learn this through the process with Fight forgotten and how it's developed, right? Like we are helping people and we and I want to be a lifeguard. Jump in there, see someone sinking and go be the strong guy and put them over my shoulder and swing them back to to to shore. But really, like I think especially when it comes to addiction.

speaker-1: Interesting. What is that? Yeah.

speaker-0: You can be a lighthouse, meaning like standing on firm foundation, w basically showing where safe ground is. Like, hey, I see you over there struggling, love you, like sending you all this light and love and but like this this is where it's safe over here, not out there in those dark, stormy waters. And if I jump in and try to rescue you, you know, you can bring me down and let's both drown, and then we're no good to anybody.

speaker-1: So

speaker-0: She was definitely a lighthouse for me and it's inspired me to be that for others too. Like

speaker-1: Yeah. I I love that. And you know, just I mean, I recently, you know, I've been single not too long and I I thought to myself, like, you know, I could get back out there and try, or I could decide I'm gonna take a year and date myself. And because if I don't take that time to fix whatever is in me that continues to have these things happen, it's just gonna happen again. Right. So I just chose to go that route and I think that there is a beauty in like learning to be alone as well and being okay with that. And I never thought that before. I was always maybe looking for another person to complete me or validate me in a lot of ways. And so with addiction, I think it's it's a lot of that too, where you're so scared to be by yourself because you don't you have that shame, right? There's a lot of shame or you've screwed up in the past. And you don't want to hear those own voices inside of your head. And so it's kind of like Is that the biggest flex to learn to forgive yourself? Right. And then to learn to be alone. Because I've, you know, there's somebody, there was somebody who said it. And it was like, I've never met an addict who didn't light up a room sober. And it was like, yeah, it was like I've never met an addict who like was, yeah. And so it's one of those things that maybe I'm thinking, like, just asking for your validation, I guess, in this and saying, Is it fair to say you have to love yourself, forgive yourself? Like you don't it for me, I don't feel like you have to go around, you know, apologize. Like, I don't think you need to go apologize to sponsors and do all those things. Maybe you did to help yourself, but I think that the biggest apology is just changing the way you live your life. Yeah, and that living. Yeah, and just learning to love yourself and that shines through. But If there's anything you want to add to that on telling people, okay, you may be facing addiction, maybe you've done terrible things. Right. And most addicts prob probably have. How do you how did you learn to forgive yourself? That's the question.

speaker-0: I mean in my heart of hearts I knew that there was someone and something else inside of me that that if I could unearth that instead of keep keeping on the piles of shit, you know, if I could if I could earth unearth the good thing and have that consistently safely that you know, I knew there was a desire in me to help more than hurt and to leave this world a little bit better than I found it. And for me, one of the ways not that like not that like not that service has been purpose through service hasn't been my atonement, but purpose through service. didn't just make my life a little bit better, a little bit brighter. Like purpose through service changed me at my core. And the substances would be a coping mechanism for I mean, it's a real disease. And my body would would trick myself. My brain would trick my body into how to get it so that it got a fix. But it also was my way to cope with like. PTSD or childhood trauma or you know it was it was a warm blanket when I needed it and it worked until it didn't. And so just understanding that like if if I can't fix this not meaning me fix it, but if if a power greater than me or if this purpose through service and this community that's done it, if they can't show me that that it's possible then I'm never going to step into Who I'm supposed to be on this earth in this one life and fight for the forgotten would be penalized or punished. And that's where I would carry so much weight with it when it wasn't fixed, when it wasn't licked, whenever I wasn't like sober and couldn't s consistently do it. I could do it for a year, do it for say eighteen months, I could do it for a little while and then it'll boom right back down and be even further. But now I I think I put a little less pressure on it. It's just about today, not about my entire life. And if I can just do it today, then it's gonna be easier tomorrow.

speaker-1: Mm-hmm.

speaker-0: And

speaker-1: So what yeah. What would you say to people that, you know, as a nurse, I dealt with thousands, thousands of addicts. ⁓ and it's real. I agree. It's a real disease. Anybody that's a hill I will die on a thousand percent. What would you I and this is an excuse or this is a justification I've heard was, you know, I'm not rich. I can't afford rehab. I can't afford this. Like, you know, and Yeah, it's like you can't afford not to, but what if I mean that it that is a real thing. Rehabs are not cheap. So if somebody if somebody can't afford rehab, is there a service or something that you have utilized that could help?

speaker-0: Well, there's a lot of stuff, but I would say I would say first exhaust every option to see if if you if you really can't go. Like most people say they can't, and there's a there's a way. It's ⁓ most of the time, not saying it's an excuse, but most of the time it's our disease and our brain trying to have self-preservation and see if we can hold on to it a little longer. Because for me, going to treatment, the first time I thought it was the worst punishment I've ever. had to go through and I was found out or whatever. And I almost died and almost killed myself. It was so embarrassing. It was so embarrassing. ⁓ second time it dawned on me in there like what gift. I haven't gone back a third time because I don't want to be stuck in the cycle of always having to repetitively use it as a crutch. But it was like it was such a gift to me that how how rare is it that anyone gets to take 30, 60 or hopefully 90 days Like do some deep work and introspection and heal and figure some things out about yourself and become a better human and to become a better brother, son, or mother, father, or like whatever it is, like to human better and to be surrounded by compassionate, loving people that are trying to just help you do that, help you get well. And for me, I was so sick. And so I would say if someone is really, really sick in a disease of addiction, like you, you, you gotta get well. You gotta do everything you can. And oftentimes that comes through treatment. And so exhaust every option to see if you can go. And if you can't, it would be surrounding yourself with a community, just like the community I found in the rainforest that was a tribe, like that was amazing. But here, stateside. My community personally is AA, Alcoholics Anonymous, but there's all sorts of them. NA, and there's Celebrate Recovery, and there's ones called Phoenix, and there's ones that are fitness groups, and there's ones that are CrossFits, and there's ones that that have been emphasis. So there's a boxing gym here in Austin that has it. And and so it'd be a community seeing people that have been through it that will help you through it too. But you gotta do the work.

speaker-1: I'm yeah, because there's no question, there's people that I've spoken with that they're scared shitless of detox because they're like, I've done it before, I'm not doing you know, and it's terrifying, especially if you go cold turkey and you don't have the medical support that you need to get through it. Like that's terrifying for people. And I I totally do understand that, but I agree. I think that it's like freeing yourself. W finally. And that's like the again, biggest flex is when you're finally free from yourself, not from anybody else, you know, not from any relationships, whatever yourself. And I just wanna say like what a light you've you've spread through and I've I just have known you for an hour. ⁓ and just what a light you've been in and just in my world and and just I I'm sure for these people that just love and adore you so much. And I think that that's probably why you're put on this earth, not to be a a wrestler. Is it wrestler or MMA? I'm not sure. Wrestler. Okay. It I I I I think that you are probably given that platform in order to do this. And I think that you've found your true, true calling with this. And you know, just what an incredible, incredible experience it's been to just get to know you. Thank you. And if there's anything that you want to leave.

speaker-0: Yeah, it's good.

speaker-1: This this podcast with what would it be?

speaker-0: I didn't excite to talk about addiction at all, but you know, I I'm a keynote speaker now and I don't even say this from stage, but I have these yellow shoes with black soles. And the reason I wear them is is because I don't have the wrestling shoes to put on or the boxing gloves to put on anymore. And it's like me gloving up. It's me suiting up before I go speak. And it just reminds me that when I put those on, you know, you, me. We have all overcome a hundred percent of our darkest days. And like now, it's our opportunity to get to share some light, share some love, and ⁓ make this world a little bit brighter. And yeah. So if you're walking through that darkness, just know that right around the corner could be that sunrise. And and ⁓ after that suicide attempt, which was my second suicide attempt, I watched the most epic sunrise of my entire life and I realized it dawned on me, first thought. I never thought I would see one of those again. Second thought, whoa. Wow. That's incredible. Third thought, how have I never been grateful for that? How have I never been grateful? Actually, truly, like really grateful for that. You know, and so that's where I made that decision to go to treatment, get help. I was being told by hundreds of people, go get help. But that was where it became my decision. And yeah, so just sending everyone big love, big hugs, lots of like for your journey. And if there's any semblance that that you want to help contribute to what we're doing, it's just like for the free.org or f ftf.org. And any donation monthly or one time would be triple.

speaker-1: Amazing. Well, we are going to put together an amazing seven day campaign. And you know, all week we're just all that's all we're gonna do is talk about Fight for the Forgotten and you know, just really amplify your mission. So thank you for giving us this opportunity and for taking the time to talk with me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let's go. The given game. Yay. Okay. Well, Mr. Justin, thank you so much. We will talk soon. Thank you.

speaker-0: Thank you so much. This has been a trick. Giving day.

speaker-1: And that's the giving game. If today's episode hits close to home for you, the donation link for this Affords charity will be in the description below. And if you can't donate right now, hey, that's okay too. Just do something kind for somebody today. The world needs more of that. See you next time.