Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Welcome back to the Uncomfortable Triathlon podcast. You are joined back by the both of us with myself, Harry Palmer, and my co-host, Andy Horsfall Turner. And if you're watching this on Instagram, well, there will be a little clip, we're both sat here, or if you're not watching this on Instagram, we're both sat here, topless, sweating our tits off because the UK has got a massive heatwave at the minute. So, how are you feeling, mate? Topless. We May, I am sweaty. I don't know about you, but I am sweaty. So hot! What did you have for dinner? That's what I want to know. I had we made like homemade like flatbreads and then like chicken and then some like salad and stuff, so like pretty, pretty tame, you? Nice. Yeah, well, I'm regretting it because I had a jacket potato and it was so hot. I'm sat here. I feel like I'm suffering the consequences now because my insides are burning and now I'm just sweating. Ha ha Melton. mate, mate. I love I do I do love the fact that like w we see like thirty degrees in the UK and we're like instantly like can't cope whereas like everyone in Europe gets this like consistently throughout the whole summer. But we just we just haven't got like no one's got AC, no one's got like the ha our homes aren't built for this. Yeah. No. Mate, the houses are not built for it. I also, I do think in the UK, the heat does hit different, doesn't it? The humidity is so high, it's ridiculous. So it's not just the heat, it's, But yeah, mean, how's your training been the last few days with the heat? Do you adjust it a little bit and go out, try and get out early or late, or do you just say, fuck it, I'm just gonna suffer the heat? Mm. it was yeah, massive, yeah. Yeah, I wish to be fair, I wish I did I wish I could, I guess. Luckily I haven't had to train the last few days much because I've come off coming off a race. but like today I was pretty restricted, so my wife's back in work, so I had to drop the kids at like nineam to my in laws. so I couldn't get out before nine a.m. So it meant that my morning run, I think the average temperature on it was like twenty-eight degrees, and the average humidity was like Yeah. Yeah. Oof. seventy nine percent. So I literally felt like I was melting during like a sixty minute easy run. but yeah, I I mean if I could, I would probably get out at like, you know, sunrise and just, you know, really enjoy that first part of the day because there's something, you know, when it is a super warm day here in the UK, you get up at like five thirty, six o'clock and get out. It's That was nasty. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. a nice temperature. It's like nineteen eighteen, nineteen twenty. It has a bit of like a freshness feel to it. but mate, yeah. Not gonna happen in the next few days with kids. That's that's that's all I'm gonna say. What about you? Yeah. Yeah, that is true. You are a little bit more restricted. think, well, I've come off of a decent block of training, so I'm sort of recovering a little bit. So I'm not doing as much as well, but I have been trying to get out a little bit earlier or stay up a little bit later and get bits done. today I went out with a couple of the lads, so Fred Webb and Conakila, and Fred wanted to go out with two. And mate, think we, I mean, I was only out for two and a bit hours and I think I had three litres of water and we still, we stopped for a Coke and an ice cream and I was dying. man. Was Fred Fred's doing some like heat prep and he just like brought you in on it, did he? He's an absolute savage. The boy just loves suffering. But yeah, it's not well, I mean, I don't think the training is too bad. It's just just like sleeping and like the UK houses are just not built for this kind of heat. Like you walk upstairs and you're like, my God, I'm dripping. Yeah. Literally. I I think I've probably had more showers in the last like two days than I've had in like the last year. Ridiculous. Literally like the last thing I do before I go to bed at night is have like a freezing cold shower hoping it's gonna like help me sleep. Yeah. mate. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. cold shower. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You wake up feeling disgusting. You're like, I need another shower. Yeah, it's not so good. But we on this podcast, we want to talk about Andy's race on the weekend, which was it's challenged. Good. Thanks. Cause now was it an Ironman? It was a challenge. Yeah. Mm. Yes. Yes, yeah, that's the one, yeah. No challenge, challenge, yeah. Yeah, yeah, cool. Mate, talk us through it. Give us little download on the race. oof I guess I guess the overall the overall kind of feelings afterwards is a little bit like I guess the result doesn't look great on paper. Not super happy with the result in terms of like I guess being a h like a critic to myself. Like I think I finished ninth place in the end. Yeah, I I kind of went into this race with the expectations of like, you know, pr trying to get, you know, pretty much trying get it get a podium at least. Mm. Mmm. Yeah, sure. and I felt like if the race dynamics, which I'll like run through in in a bit, like played differently and I maybe performed a little bit better, like it was like well within grasp. but yeah, but things things kind of yeah, a few things didn't fall my way and then I kind of underperformed in in in you know part of it as well. And then also we got like thirty plus degrees weather on the run and it just like Mmm. Yeah. Mmm, yeah. Even like some of these like really quick runners who have history of running like one tens, one elevens, like they were like three, four minutes slower than they normally would be. you know, on on the same course as well. Like a guy the guy won the race, Ojin from Serbia. He's done this race, I think he said f to me four times. and this is the slowest he's ever run on the course. And it was like weird 'cause like I felt like I was running Really? Yeah. because it was just so hard. Yeah, and he and he was running one sorry, running to win the race. And he said he felt like he was running decently, but it was just so hot that the pace was just shit. but that's I guess that's the conditions on the day you get, I guess. but yeah, shall I run through, swim, bike, run, that kind of thing? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's intense. Mmm. Mate, go through what's... I mean, I'm also, before you get into like meat and potatoes a bit, I'm interested to know about... Because this might be interesting for people listening to this. When you're in race week and you're obviously tapering, you're trying to like freshen up, you're trying to stay... You you're trying to freshen up enough but not get too lethargic, you're trying to stay a bit zingy. A lot of people feel... and you probably experienced this and I've definitely experienced this, like you feel actually quite shit on race week and you kind of question whether you're over recovering or whatever or you just feel rubbish. Is there something that you do to mentally, I don't know, get yourself confident that you're gonna be good for race day? Yeah. Yeah, I think that's that's a good way to look at it. It's it's never like a linear thing. Like you don't just finish training and start tapering and then instantly the body just like clicks. and it is a bit of like that roller coaster because you know, some some sessions in that week, you know, I feel you do feel amazing and then other sessions you can just all of a sudden just like feel really like as you said, lethargic is a really good way of putting it. but also I guess like Mm-hmm. Mm. question I guess question ability or fitness is is quite a normal thing to do as well. so I guess like for me there was like there's two polar opposite ends of the spectrum which I had a run session on Wednesday I think it was a race week and it was like three by I think it was three by three minutes like pretty hard like I was running like Mmm. three three four per k, three five per K, so like pretty tasty for three minutes. and then like a four by one minutes where you'd run even quicker. and I felt in felt incredible on that. Like it felt like, you know, I wasn't all out. I felt like I was running really solid and the speed was kind of coming easy. And that was like the idea behind that session was just to really kind of rev the engine a little bit and get the body really like firing again. Yeah. Mm. Hmm. Yeah. So that was that was really, really good. And then the next day I had a bike session where I basically had to go like I think it was three by four minutes just above threshold. So like 390-ish watts, 390 to 400 watts. and mate, I I blew up. I blew up, I blew up on these efforts. I g I did like I did like two of them. And then the third one I got to like three minutes in and I just like lapped my lapped my watch and I was like Yeah. Really? no. Yeah, that's enough that's enough for today because I was like I like got to the point where I was like I was like I could do this last minute, but I feel like I'm on the edge and I'm like I shouldn't be on the edge. Why am I on the edge? Like I'm just gonna stop there So yeah that definitely I was like I definitely had that mild like panic of like shit Am I like am I not tapered properly? Like Yeah and I de I definitely messaged my coach and then he was like tooth end and You Yeah. Am I good enough? Yeah. That was the Thursday and it was the first kind of like humidity, hot day we started to get in the UK. and he was like, How he's like, How hot was it in your turbo room? And I like, yeah. It was pretty, pretty tasty in there. And he was like, Well, that's probably why you felt a bit of shit. And I'm like, Yeah, true. so thankfully, kind of mentally kind of negotiated my way through that situation, I guess. Yeah. It was roasting. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think that's like the role of a coach, isn't it? To like, when you are flapping a little bit, to try and bring you back down to ground level and reassure you and be like, no, come on, one bad session is not just going to derail you. But yeah, mate, I I guess over Yeah. Well, it it's funny 'cause I literally I s I I had that conversation with with Sam and I was like and I literally said to him after that, I like, or it could just be like, you know, race, weak jitters, like, you know, typical like athlete kind of thing. And then I like I literally s I messaged him straight away after that being like, Fucking athletes, pain in the ass we are. And it's i it's interesting because I remember Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly, yeah. a few years ago when I was still coaching kind of like relatively full time in swimming. I actually had Jack Schofield come down to to do a a photo shoot for me for Blue Seventy. And he came down and I was he he arrived while I was still coaching on poolside. So he came came on poolside to kinda see me. and it was like a couple of days before like I think it was like Eastern nationals or like British nationals. It was sun it was a pretty big meet for the the summers. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, I had a few swimmers come up to me like at the end of the session, just with that typical kind of like race week kind of nervousness of like, like my dive didn't feel great there and stuff like that. And you know, I I I I kind of like, you know, as a coach did as a coach should do, is kind of like just, you know, try and get the athlete's head in the right space and like, you know, point out something positive or Yeah. you know, try and twist the situation so they're kind of looking at it with a like a a much more like yeah, I guess like optimistic mindset. and I, you know, it doesn't take much literally like a sentence or like a few a few kind of sentences to kind of get their athlete's head right. And I said something to a I said it I I must have replied to like two or three athletes individually and Jack was sat next to me and he kinda just smiled at you and he goes he said like coaching is like Mm. Yeah. coaching's like I can't remember exactly what he said, but it was something along the lines of like coaching is so simple but like you have to have like the emotional intelligence to understand what people need. Or like something like that. And I'm like, yeah, it really is 'cause 'cause athletes are we're fucking nuts, mate. We are we're ridiculous Yeah but yeah mate, I guess I guess my race week was was pretty good. I think the only thing that Yeah. Yeah, yeah. We're just fucking annoying. Yeah. I'm gonna try and change going into the next race is that and it's I can't really change it completely. It's that the fact that my wife went back to work like literally two weeks ago and it was like the we were kind of settling into this new rhythm where I kind of have more like responsibility in terms of like soul cust like soul soul looking after of the kids. so it did mean that the day that I was travelling or the day after sorry, the day before I was traveling Mmm. I needed to pack my bike. But I was trying to pack a bike and I had a a one-year-old and a three-year-old with me. So just like the the logistics of that became quite difficult. I was trying to like use nap time where my one-year-old was having his nap while I was putting like I put my I didn't put my toddler, she came out to the the the shed with me and I was like kind of like Yeah. Yeah. taking apart my bike and like trying to make it like engaging like a little bit engaging for her to like understand like what I was doing. but yeah, I think logistically speaking I need to try and like minimise some stress in race week and I've just got be kind of creative how I do that and it's probably gonna be like be a bit more prepared. but it's always easier said than done. Yeah. Yeah, it's one of those though, it's all like, yeah, it's one of those like, in hindsight, you're like, should have done that or could have done this or whatever. But it's like, you just make it up as you go. Yeah. It makes for a stressful makes for a stressful like pre travel though and I think you just don't want to get your stress up in race week. I think that just like it wastes energy. It just wastes like just I got to I got out to Poland and like I felt then like relaxed that I'm like right I've I'm here, I've got my bike, it's all working but then like you almost don't want that come down because you then got a race the next day. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. But it sounds like you navigated it as well as you could have done. so what was it like? Talk us through essentially from race morning. How did things go for you? Where was your head at? And how did the race pan out? Yeah. So so I changed my race morning breakfast. took took on the the Harry Palmer special of the whitest, plainest toast I could find. Okay. Yeah, the least nutritional value ever is the best. So I smashed some toast and some jam. What did you, used to have then? I was so I used to when I started Triathon I used to go like pot like the pots of oats. Yeah. and then like realised that fibre was like not a good idea. and then the last like three years I've been like on the rice and honey hype. but I just I I I don't think I've ever really like got along with it super well. It's just kinda like it it felt like the right thing to eat. Horridge. Yeah. Yeah. okay. Nice. Yeah okay. I don't like what other people do and just do it. Yeah. Yeah. And then like I think after South Africa I obviously had stomach issues in South Africa and I spoke to my coach about it. And that's actually why I I asked you and your Samarin like recap, like what did you eat? Because in my head I was already gonna kind of go towards like toast because that's something I eat like every day. So and I'm out. Yeah. Yeah. I always think, what would I have before a Sunday long run? I would always just have toast and jam and a black coffee. It's like, why would I do anything differently on race day? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, literally. Literally exactly the same thing I had this morning before my my I I it was only an easy run today, but I was like, right, when the kids were having breakfast this morning I had a couple of slices of toasts. You know, it's so it's like my it's like a routine, so it's like why why change that race day if you know it works every day? Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. But it is one of those I always used to actually struggle with that. I would kind of do everything so differently on race week to a regular week. And then I remember chatting to Leon about this and being, this is back when I was like going through some issues with my stomach and trying to figure out what was going wrong and try a few different things. And he was like, why are you eating so differently on race week? in a normal week, you train pretty well and you manage, I'm not saying it was perfect, but it's like, Mm. you eat pretty well, you train pretty well, why don't you just eat a regular week? And yes, obviously leading up to the race day, maybe you want to think about reducing your fiber intake and all this sort of stuff. But for the main part, just do what you normally do because if it works in training, it'll work on race day. Yeah yeah. Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. And I th that's where like I went like pasta the night before, which I have like regularly at home as well. So pasta the night before, toast race morning. Energy felt good, stomach felt good. So I think from that perspective, I think it's something I'm gonna take into the next races. And you know, I guess the big test is when I next do a full distance, because I think you always find out in a full distance whether something really works. Yep. Yep. Nice. Good. Hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think you can bluff it a little bit at a 70.3. Yeah. but yeah mate, good I yeah, morning went good to have br had my breakfast. got down there nice and early. super nice morning. It was like an eight o'clock start, so not super early. pretty relaxed. I think challenge races team just do seem quite relaxed. Yeah. so sorted the bike out, got onto the beach, I didn't do a swim warm up. I for some reason Yeah. bit more chilled, yeah. Whenever I do a swim warm up for a seventy point three, I always feel like I swim worse. So decided not to do a swim warm up. Interesting. Do you have a specific land-based warm-up that you would do then instead? Or do you literally just go in like raw dog? May I I shake my arms and I I shake my legs and I No, I no, i i for me, I do a couple of like bits of like I guess like very slight mobility, but it's more just like range of motion, like I'll like put my hands ab like one arm above my head and like really try and like lift my like scapula up and like really try and like get my arm extension like as hard as I can to like really like get the like the brain almost working of like really reaching. Nice. Nice. Okay. Yeah, yeah, then obviously like I will be like walking around, moving around quite a lot, so like the body feels relatively warm and I definitely will do like a few like kind of jumps. Not like I'm not a good jumper 'cause I'm a tri athlete, but like like a few a few hops and like to the point where like I feel like when the gun goes I'm ready to go. But I don't feel like I don't I don't know the value in spending two to five minutes like Just to get the heart rate, yeah. Yeah, sure. getting in the water to get out of the water. I don't know. And like I'm not on like I don't it's not like I'm gonna get in and like work on my technique. It's not like I th and I sometimes feel like if you get in the water and then like say your technique does feel a bit like ropey, does that then psych you out? Yeah, yeah. and I guess there's there's no science behind it, but like also in my head I'm like, we're racing for like you know Yeah, it's fun. Yeah. Yeah, it's in your head and you're like, God, I'm going to swim like a bag of spanners. seventy point three like under four hours, but like up to four hours in full distances up to like eight, nine hours. So it's like why do I need to spend another fifteen minutes exercising before I spend eight hours exercising, you know? Yeah. That's the privilege of being a good swimmer, mate. I need all the warm-up I can get. but yeah, so zero zero warm up. the starting Gdanks is really funny 'cause we start on the beach and I I hate beach starts because there's an element of I've got short legs and there's an element of like no disrespect to anyone who's a good runner but some very good runners tend to be very shit swimmers. Your your your your sorry Okay. You've got short legs. Watch yourself. You watch your mouth. You know you know the type of people I'm talking about though. Yeah, you're talking about me, you piece of shit. Yeah. But anyway, these really shit similar. But they they tend to be able to run. And obviously there there's anomalies, like someone like a Jack Hutchins is really good at this, but like on the whole there's there's there's a there's exceptions, but on the whole, some people are really, really good at running and kind of like being Jesus and just walking on water. And I'm and I am not. so this one this was really awkward one as well, because it there was kind of like a trench, so you like Yeah, he's unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah, and they just find good positions. Yeah. Yeah. took a couple of steps, it went deep for like three meters and then it went shallow again. Also, you almost had to do like a double start. You like dive in, swim a little bit and then walk again and... Yeah, so no no so no no not even far enough. So it was like so it was like two or three steps and you if you dived you'd then hit the sand. So you kind of have to run, but like it's kinda like too like almost too deep that it like like takes your legs. so anyway Well, mate, so the gun the gun goes, but just before the gun goes, a jet ski flew in front of us. right. Basically, just all the pro men fall over and then stand back up again. to like move across to like go to the other side to like one of like the s safety support jet skis and like they moved across to the other side but then it was a pancake flat day but obviously as the jet ski went he then like had the the waves come off his like his wake and as the gun went a wake wave perfectly formed in that deeper section of water so me, Tom Davis and at least a th a few other people I don't know. Yeah. Mm. Okay. started and literally just went just pancake flat lit literally flat on the floor and I literally stood up and I was like I could see the most of the profil in front of me and I went and I was just thinking to myself shit. So I started I started legging it. Everyone then took their few more steps and started diving and I realized that the people around me dived and they weren't swimming that quick but I also realized I could keep running. just slapped straight into it. You're like, fuck. Yeah. So people had dived in and started swimming and I kind of just like carried on running through the middle. And then I like took maybe like three or four more steps and then dived. So I was like just in front of them. And I think he won't mind me saying this, but Simon Davis was the one of the guys to my right. And he like dived and I was like kinda like semi ran past him and then dived in. and then yeah, mate, I clear clear water. there were some decent swimmers in the field, so Okay. You just kept running. you Yeah. We kind of formed a lead pack of like six of us maybe. so I'm gonna f no, I've forgotten his name. Nice. I forgot his name now. There's a guy from I think he's Leeds based or Nottingham based. British guy was doing his first ever middle distance. I wanna say Ozzy, but I don't think it is Aussie. Or or Og Augie? Ozzy? Ozzy it's either Aussie or Augie. It's a nickname. it's no, I think it's Oscar. Oscar, maybe? Oscar, I think. he actually beat me, so I yeah, I should I he I owe him some more respect than that. I know. Okay. His name is Ozzy? right, okay. Okay. fucking hell. What a dickhead. But he's a really good swimmer. and then we also had like Serbian guy Ozian and a few other guys, German guy called Yan Janny Battel. but anyway, yeah, we had a good little group. I was kind of like leading like next to a couple of guys for the first stretch. I then tucked in round the back because it's like a rectangle course round the back, I tucked in. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And then on the like the 850 meter stretch back to the beach, I took the lead. and yeah, I mean we came out in a group and it felt like a pretty controlled swim, so I was pretty happy with it. I then just like I just screwed transition up. I don't know how I screwed it up. So I was trying to zip my tri suit up, so I was like I started running. I couldn't like quite get the zip in because it's like one of those ones that unzips at the bottom, my purpose one. Yeah. Gone. E... yeah. Which is is it fits so nicely, but like so I had the sleeves up, but I just had it completely undone and I couldn't get the zip in the thing at the bottom of the suit because I was running and I was like kept on like fucking missing it. And it was like frustrating me. I come on, we're the So anyway, while I was while I was doing that, the five guys that were in the group with me kinda like ran like side by side with me. I was like slowing down and then eventually I was like, you know what? Screw this, I'll do it at my bike rack. Okay. shit. Run through. Yeah. So I then like didn't bother, so I then ran, but at that point they'd all gone past me. I then got to my rack, zipped up fine, helmet on, didn't have the cleanest of ent exits, but I came out in that group in in sixth. and the first section is this really narrow bike path. so you basically can't really pass. You could if you really wanted to, but everyone kind of just like held gaps. so I just basic Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Mm. Okay. They didn't have like a no overtaking zone there or anything. Ah. No, like you I I think they they didn't say no overtaking, but it kind of like didn't seem that advantageous 'cause it was like maybe like a kilometre and then you're out on a main road. So it was like and so I was just like sitting in this row and I I kind of thought, well, in my head I'm like, there's no point, I'm just gonna get my shoes sorted, gonna get my like legs turning over, and then like my idea was to like be pretty aggressive on the bike and I Yeah. Okay, yeah, doesn't really matter. Yeah. I was probably quite confident. I don't know if it was like overconfidence, but I was like, I'm like I I'm just like confident in my ability to like kind of ride through some of these guys. so I got to the main road, we got settled, I was following Tom Davis and there was like a bit of group, and I could then see that there was like a lead car and a couple of motorbikes out in front, and then there was this one guy who had like separated a little bit from the group already. Yeah. Mmm. Okay. And I was like, fuck. So I was like, right, I can't I can't let him get too yeah. So I I was like, I can't let him get too far. So he was at this point, I hadn't even seen him s kind of slip away. But I reckon he probably had 40 seconds on the group, probably within the first two or three K. So I then sent it round the four, I think it was four or five guys that I sent it round them. kind of just like put the you know. Yeah, I need to close that gap, yeah. Mmmmm Yeah. went up to like what I thought was sensible wattage, like three hundred and fifty ish watts and just kinda like sat there. went to the front and I was like just like trying to close this guy and I I clo I was closing on him, closing on, closing on him, and I got him I got him down to about I wanna say somewhere between sixty to s maybe like fifty to seventy meters. So I was like almost almost there and I was like, right, just get there and then and then we can like Yeah, sure. Okay. Yeah. get there and refuel and see what happens. You know Yeah. And like and not that I'm like trying to get not that I'm trying to get an unfair advantage, but like there was a leave car and two motorbikes and they were not very far in front of him. Mate, it makes a massive difference. At the front of the race, there are going to be vehicles. As much as this sucks, there are going to be vehicles. If you're someone who can capitalize on that, then use it to your advantage. Yeah. You use it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so and it was actually the the German guy, Yanni Battel, who was there and he was and in credits him, he's he's a good he's a good rider, he's done some very good bike splits, and he rode very, very strong. but it was like frustrating 'cause I I I did a couple of times where I like raised the power up to like three at one point I I did like maybe like two minutes like three eighty to see if I could start like you know, I got to that like s I got to like fifty, sixty meters away from him, and I like, right, can I Mmm. Okay, yeah, really pushing. Bridge up that last little bit and then be there. Yeah. so anyway, I did these kind of little like little I guess pushes, like not trying to go too in the red. And I did them, and every time I did them, I got further away. And I'm like and I was literally I said I I got like further away and like again, it's not this guy's fault because of like it's not his guy's fault because he's just riding at the front of the race. Just close the gap and you can start. Yeah, I don't know really how that works, but... But we went into a narrow section and it was literally like motorbike motorbike him and it looked fr well obviously from my perspective it looked like he was two metres off the back of them. It was probably what it probably was a lot more when he was up there, but it wasn't it's not in my opinion, it's not far enough. And I I even asked the official at one point when I was like still chasing him, I said like I said to the official, like, th that car and the motorbikes are too close. Can you tell them to move up? And the official like Yeah. Yeah. Sure. No. Hmm. Yeah, yeah. The fisher was like, Yeah, yeah. Whizzed up, like flew up on on their motorbike to him and then sat next like sat next to him for like ten minutes and I'm like, what the fuck's just happened? and then sat in front of him. Yeah. Yeah. Because even I don't think people realize if they've not experienced it before, even a motorbike being sat next to you, you just get sucked along. You just get pulled along. It is something like, even a motorbike, and these motorbikes they ride, they're not small bits of kit. They're pretty chunky. They've normally got two people on. It's a big... Yeah, big difference. Yeah. They break the they break the air nicely. they break the air very well and even if that bike's like I would even even if it's like 75 meters in front of you you're gonna get a decent benefit yeah you're gonna get something Something. Yeah, yeah. And that and that's and you know, we're we're averaging like at this point we're averaging forty seven K an hour. So we're we're shifting. So like I think even when you're good when you're the quicker you're going, even the the like the moto draft is even bigger. so that was frustrating, but also at the same time, in a in a jokey way, I joked about the lead car and the lead moto with other people in the briefing. Yeah. Yeah. the more benefit you get. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. because like we're like, it's probably gonna sit right in front of the lead athlete. And I like joking, be like, I hope it sits really close if I'm leading the race or thing. so from that perspective, I'm I'm a bit pissed at myself for having such a bad T one. because not and not because I wanted to necessarily be solo, but actually like seeing how Yanni rode and like coming into T two like I think it was like two minutes twenty up on our group. Yeah, okay. He's like, well, I hope it's me. Yeah. Mmm. it was more frustration because I like, it would have been really good to have been there with him because then, you know, potentially that 'cause I'll t explain the rest of the race in a minute, because I ended up then towing a group a little bit. Yeah. I'll you what mate, you should call out Simon Davis for not getting on the front and pulling everyone along. mate, he he he didn't make our group, mate. He was on the the one behind. So I guess yeah, I th I'd kind of given up the chase at this point a little bit. I backed I backed the watts down, I I kinda knew that I wasn't gonna get on. and I also was like I've just done I think I'd done forty five minutes at like a normalized power of like three three nine or three forty. is he? what the fuck? What a slacker. Mmm It is pretty chunky. Yeah. So yeah, it was decent like it was decent wattage and I was like, you know what, if I carry on like this, I'm probably overbiking a bit. So I I I turn I turn I turned it down a little bit. and then I got to this roundabout where we were coming back, the kind of the way we went. And there's two roundabouts and the way we came in, you went straight over, straight over. And I hadn't recorded the course because the roads out there are terrible to ride on. So Mmm. Yeah. Okay. But on the way back, instead of going straight over, straight over, you go straight over and then take a right hander. not even that, I went straight over and there was no fencing to stop you going straight over again. So and I couldn't see that Yanni had turned right because he was just in like the perfect sight to disappear. So I went straight over, straight over, went like seventy five metres or so, and was like, there's a fence, I must I I've gone the wrong way, I'll turn round. so you overcooked it massively. shit. Yeah. Fuck man. So I went and I shout I even shouted to the guy at the roundabout, like because I was like a bit unsure as I was going through it. I was like, straight over, and the guy was like, Yep. Like just like pointing to me to go straight over. so anyway, I turned back and I then like I don't know, I reckon I wasted somewhere between forty five to sixty seconds. but then as I got back to the roundabout, Tom Davis, Ojian, and then two other guys were there. So it was like the the main lead group had basically like caught me again. both. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Mm. That's not, that's not fun. mate, and and then after you just spanked it for forty five minutes, I'm like, what a fucking waste of effort. So I then I then rode in I say in the group, so but it was basically just me and Tom Davis taking like five minute turns and then a few people just sitting in. standard. and yeah, yeah. And like it was like one of those things as well, 'cause like when I was following Tom, I was like Yeah, you're like, what a waste of time. Okay. Yeah. Classic. Yeah. This isn't quick enough. The groups behind are gonna catch us. And then like when I went to the front I was like I was aware I was towing everyone. I'm like, I don't wanna go too hard because I'm towing everyone. Yeah. It's a really difficult situation to be in when you're like, front of the race is getting away from me, so I need to get on the front and ride as hard as I can, but I also don't want to tow along X amount of guys behind me and give them the opportunity to have fresher legs for the run or be in a position to overtake me. There's no good decision to make there because if you decide to get on the front and ride as hard as you can, Yeah, yeah. Okay, brilliant. Maybe you'll catch the front of the race, but maybe you'll blow up and maybe these guys will get a free ride. But if you decide to sit in and play the game, the front of the race is getting away from you anyway. So it's like, well, then I'm just racing for second place and who's racing for second place? Everyone wants to try and win. So it's like, you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A hundred percent. And I and I I kind of was like going through that like and you know, there's an element of like being a bit pissed off because I I was a little bit pissed off early in the race about the motors and like I d I definitely like not that you like let it get to you completely but like I definitely was like I could feel frustration and then obviously then going the wrong way so I was a little bit like for that midsection of the bike I was like Mmm, yeah. I would, I'd be, I would allow it to fucking get me hyped up. Yeah, in it I was I I well I and just also like not really a hundred percent sure what to do because like you know, I ultimately I still wanted to have a good overall race and in in theory I'm still in second here. so I was like, I don't want I don't wanna like fuck the race up because I'm like do something stupid. Like I could have just like tried to like do a massive attack again, but I'm like would that have like completely broken me? I don't know. hindsight, obviously maybe not. Pissed. Yeah. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. 'cause I ran like shit anyway, but anyway, we'll get to that in a sec. but what I did do is I I got to I got to about thirty K to go and I just like I just like tur I went back round Tom. Didn't tell Tom I was gonna do it 'cause I didn't really plan to do it when I went when I w when I went when I went round him. but I just started turning the screw Don't spoil the story! Yeah. Yeah. And I just basically pushed like the last thirty five minutes I pushed like three twenty watts. and I like strung I strung the group out and like chatting to Tom afterwards. Like Tom said he was like at points of having to work pretty hard to like hold, but like he was like he was holding, but then he he he said that from his perspective the guys behind weren't leaving the twenty minute, twenty meter gap. But he like he said he was and he was like dangling and like Okay. Yeah, okay. Yeah. felt like he was working hard to follow me. And then he said that he felt like the other lads were just getting a free ride back to T Two. Yeah. Thing is, mate, the best thing to do in that situation is if you're riding with one of your mates, let's say it was you on the front of this group and you're riding your 320 watts whatever, and I'm 20 meters back and I'm thinking, fuck, we've got five guys here who are just getting a free ride and they're pissing me off. I would just drop back and drop back and drop back and drop back, probably get to 30, 40 meters. And as they're maybe starting to think, shit, Harry's dropping off, you... We need get rid of them. Yeah, yeah. And then absolutely let rip. You drop the biggest Watt bomb of your life, ride past you and say, let's fucking ride for five minutes as hard as we can. You would drop those motherfuckers straight away. Ha ha ha. I know, yeah, and and again, like h hindsight is great because like I think tactically speaking that that is what I would I w I would I would have gone harder quicker and it would it you know, if working with Tom might have been a better option or even like when I went round Tom and I just started took the race on, if I if I'd known that he was working really hard to follow at three twenty, like maybe I should have pushed it to three thirty for a bit and that might have been enough to drop you know, drop the gap. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's so hard to know, isn't it? You've got to race your own race. There's no point in going so hard that you just completely blow up because it's well, it is an individual sport at the end of the day. You're not doing it for anyone else. Yeah. Yeah. I know. So yeah, I mean I I got back to T two second. w but I had three guys. So it was a Spanish guy which I don't know the name of, Ojian and Tom like in close succession behind me. And then we had like another ninety second gap or so to like the group of like Simon and that lot. who like Simon had ridden really well, a few other guys had ridden really solid Yeah. Yep. Okay. Yeah, okay. but yeah, I I think like tactically speaking, I was like I'm a bit like frustrated that I wasn't at the front with that German guy because I was like if I'd come into T because like even he he didn't run super fast. I want to say he ran like a 118, 119 and finished like fourth in the end. He like he got ran off the podium. so it's a little bit like if I'd got off the bike with him and we'd got to work on the run and like even if I'd felt like shit like Yeah. Really? Wow, OK. Yeah. which I did feel shit, but I was in that like hunt for the the win at the beginning of the run. Do you do you find something like within yourself more than if you like out like feel like you're out of the race? Exactly, yeah. Yeah. One thing is when you're at the front of the race and you're racing for that win, it gives you that little bit of hunger. Let's say you're just a bit further back and you're surrounded by guys who then immediately run through you. I had it in Salute where you get off the bike in second, you think, fucking hell, this is great. Then immediately you're in fourth or fifth and you're like, fuck. Yeah. Well that would that would that's and that's literally what happened here. Like I had again I didn't ha I had a crap transition too. So like both T one and T two were like dreadful. And I got out so came into the group with those three guys just behind me and I came out and came out onto the run in f in fifth place. So Yeah. Yeah. Oh, mate, it's the worst. You got off the bike in second, you came out in fifth, you're like, not ideal. Yeah, and and then and then also like yeah, like I I didn't feel good running. I got like I had like some tight solares and I'm I'm trying to get to the bottom of what's causing that. I it's something bike related, but gonna try and get trying going to try and get to the bottom of that. But felt like I was running terribly. and then it didn't then take long for like Simon and a couple of those guys to come up to me as well. And then Simon's like, this is probably like four K into the run maybe or mate. Yeah. Okay. Thanks And he's like, he he he runs past me and he's like like not I say what like I say run past me like I'm just standing there like I was still running He he comes up by s beside me while we're running really quick Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we're dropping three-minute Ks. but he basically just says to me, he's like, like and he was running with another guy, he's like, like what position are you in? Because you know it's challenge races, trackers, he didn't have a clue what I'm winning. But anyway, I was like, him and his he was running on the shoulder of this other guy, and I was in fifth at the time. So he was like, what position were you in? And I was like, I was fifth, and I was like, So you're now in sixth. I was like, that makes sense. You should have lied to him. She'd be like, no, I'm in first. Yeah. You're like, wait, what? And then like, yeah, I guess then there's that mental thing of like they're those guys were running so much better than me. And I was running shit. And then instantly I'm like, well, I'm now out of the money as well. I'm like, fuck's sake, I can't even can't even fucking get in the money at challenge gadangs. yeah. And it's also that once you are in that negative mental spiral, you probably could have, you would have been able to suffer more if you were in a position, or if you were not even in a better position, but if you were just moving forward through the field rather than moving backwards, I can guarantee you just feel so much better. Mm. Or just just running just running like yeah. Running well, like that's the thing. Yeah. I was just like if I'd if I'd was dropping, you know, relatively okay Ks that and like a few guys had run past me, I might have been like optimistic, being like, they might be overpacing this a bit. but I was yeah, it was pretty pitiful, mate. But and then the w the worst thing was when my Sileuses started to like Yeah. Yeah. mate. I guess like warm up or like start feeling better. It was like nine it was like it was like ten K in nine ten K in maybe. And all of a sudden I was like, I feel like I'm running with like my proper gait. Like I haven't like I've done ten K of running like I don't know, like I've been shot in both legs. But now I'm running like with a proper like run form. And I was like, actually like this is starting to feel better. So I like look down, like pace is getting better I'm finishing straight. Okay. Yeah. You And then all of a sudden I was like, fuck, I'm really hot. It's really hot. And mate, no joke. And then like all of a sudden I was like twelve Kin I'm like, fucking hell, I'm melting. He's like, shit, so good for 500 minutes. You Yeah. That's so funny. And to be fair, it was the same like Tom Davis, he had a cracking he had a crack in like first two laps, like first ten K, he was flying, he was in second. And then he got to like he said about eleven, twelve K and he said the heat just suddenly like went he like something went in his like body and he just like was absolutely like ruined. but it was it was hot. It was like f my wa my my watch, I don't know how accurate that is, but my watch was saying like average tempo on the run was thirty. Yeah. Code him. Yeah. shit. Hmm. but the humidity must have been like ridiculous because like three hours after the race we had like these intense like thunder lightning storms. so the humidity must have been pretty yeah, pretty pretty tasty and it's just UGH really? It would have been high, yeah. I actually remember racing in Warsaw, in Poland, and I remember the humidity being crazy. Racing in the humidity is worse than racing in the heat, I think. Mm. And it's actually the first time I think 'cause it's 'cause it was humid, it's the first time I've ever been on the bike and thought, this is pretty hot. I don't ever like normally even if it's a really hot race, I've never like not that often on the bike being like this is really hot, but it was noticeably hot on the bike. Yeah. Yeah, because if it's a dry heat, you don't really notice it because you don't sweat that much, it just wicks off you. Whereas if it's like a wet heat, a... Yeah. Yeah, and the w you got a bit of wind but if also if you've got decent wind as well, like I think we didn't have that much like in the way of wind. So you weren't getting like you know, if you're riding into like a twenty K headwind, twenty K an hour headwind, you get that real like cooling effect. but we just didn't I think the wheel the wind was so like low speed that you just like Yeah. It just felt hot, mate. It just felt hot. But Mmm. Yeah. Yeah, of course. Yeah. You just cook. man. OK, so you end up in ninth place. You're a little bit obviously disappointed. What's like? I don't know, like one, what's your immediate reaction after that? And two, any post race insights we can get for like conversations between you and your coach of like, you know, what? Yeah yeah. what are the sort of things that you are now talking about ahead of the next race? Yeah. Well I guess like I guess the post race thoughts kind of started a bit early 'cause I was having a bad run. So no, like there was there was you know, I think there was I I had definitely had a bit of a a bit of time to think with myself based on the fact that I was I knew I was running slow. I was trying and I and I was legitimately pushing like I was still trying to push myself best I could. They started 10k in when you were like, fuck I'm hot. Yeah. Sure. and I felt like I was working and like I and I I don't like I didn't get to the finish line. I I know that I didn't like a hundred percent empty every bit of my being in that race, but I definitely still felt like I gave I gave it a good effort. So from that perspective I was still working hard, but I definitely on the run had I guess like multiple different emotions. I think one of them was one of them was a bit of like parental guilt 'cause it was Father's Day and I was in a different country. Hmm Mm-hmm. Which is it sounds really lame, but I was like, I've come all the way to Poland and I'm running fucking like just under four minute okay and I've like ditched my kids on on Father's Day. I like, is that is that am I a bad parent? I don't know. I was it's a weird like it's a weird feeling 'cause like, you know, ultimately I know it's I know I shouldn't feel guilty. but it definitely like that that thought crept in. then also then like I I can't empathize with that because I don't know what that feels like. Yeah. Mm-hmm Following that one was like the what are you doing with your life, mate? You might as well retire because everyone had everyone everyone has a retirement thought when they're having a bad race. That's a classic, mate. I love that feeling. I always think of like, what would I actually do? You're like running along, you're like, yeah, I could be a tree surgeon. and then and then actually like that was probably like I maybe like I don't know starting the first la last lap I was kind of having those thoughts and then it was really weird because I within the space of a few minutes then had like immense gratitude kind of feelings of like I guess it's like thinking of people who because I I was I was out there with the Andabri, so Dan and Rebecca Anderbury. Yeah, sure. Sure. and Rebecca was she came second in the the pro ladies' race and had a decent day. Dan was doing the age group race. but Dan last year, like this time last year, basically got told that he had like some arthrit arthritis in his hip and that he probably can't do triathlon again. and luckily it hasn't been that severe, and luckily he's managed to get like to a position now where he's able to race a 70.3 again. and I kind of Mmmmm Okay, sweet as. Bye bye. I was kind of running along and I kind of I don't know, I I maybe I thought about like him being able to actually do a race again or you know, I had like thoughts of other people I've known in the past, like people like Nathan Ford and stuff like that, and I'm like, actually, I know I'm I know I'm doing shit in terms of like what I think I'm capable of or or or I know I'm capable of in a pro race, but actually there's a lot of people out there who would really give to be in the position that I'm in Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Racing in Poland in a pro race, being able to like actually like you know, actually race, like have a body that is okay, somewhat somewhat able to run, not quite what I wanted it to do, but so I I definitely had that feeling as well. and yeah, I I think I got to the I got to the end of the racing 'cause think I had that little I guess I had those thoughts on the run. I got to the finish. I I spoke to Tom Davis and we were both like, well that was shit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But actually like I and this is where it flips a little bit for me as well because I was chatting to both Simon who got second which is a really, really good race from him, and Sam Wordley who I've been coaching this year, he finished fifth and it's his first pro paycheck. so yeah, so I like and on the run course, 'cause I was having a bad day, on a few of the out and back sections, it was actually quite nice to be able to like shout to him Yeah, I'm really cool with that. Mate, what a riffer. And be like like give him some motivation. So Well he jokingly he jokingly said that at the finished, he's like he's like, Don't you take don't you take a cut of prize moment, no mate, this is all you Yeah, yeah. and be like, cool, mate, I'm just gonna start charging you 20 % prize money. You That is so funny, but it's so cool to see one of your coached athletes have the best race of his life. Yeah, and I think that was for me then is like both of them were like we're all chatting, you're having like the blow by blows, chatting about the race and stuff like that. And both of them are like said to me like, How how the fuck do you do it with two kids? Like, it's hard enough just fucking with Yeah. I actually don't even know how you do it to be honest because when I mentioned the podcast, whatever to the guys around here, they're like, how the fuck does Andy do that with two kids? Unbelievable. Mm-hmm. Mate, just very, very time efficient. That's all No, but yeah, I think going back to what you said, like I think post-race disappointment is obvious, like obviously slightly disappointed. I think when you give it a bit more time, I think logically about the race and how many like little things didn't go my way. You know, you s you you mentioned it about it before, which is like, you know. Yeah, shut up. Yeah. Hmm. Having a good race is sometimes being lucky, but it luck is like taking those opportunities. I know that that's something you you say quite a bit, but I think in this situation it was like I unfortunately like fell on the the wrong side of it. Yeah. And Yes. You can get unlucky as well. Yeah, like as much as it's nice to experience the luck, you can also experience the other side of that. Yeah, and it's like there was there was there were opportunities in front of me and unfortunately in certain situations in the race, I picked the wrong thing to do or I acted in the wrong way, which you know comes back to give you a result which is subpar of like not what you want basically. But yeah, I mean I think the I'm Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I wouldn't say I'm not disappointed or pissed off about the result 'cause I definitely still am now. But also I'm like I'm in the mindset of like I've got a couple of opportunities coming up. S I had a good chat with Sam this morning about what we're gonna do between now and Swansea, what we need to like like and I think we're in agreement that like my fitness is in a very like I'm in a really good place. and it's like I don't need to do anything. It's just like right, what what's potentially causing that Sure. Yeah. Yeah. like Sileus issue that's causing you to like feel pretty shitty getting off the bike running. can we get to the bottom of that? You know, I'm I've got a b I'm going to see bike fitter next week. you know I again I don't think I need to like I feel like in bike fitting and stuff like that. Yeah it Yeah or or even just like you know what it's like you know Hmm. Yeah. Okay. So you can drastically change anything. It's just like getting an understanding of it, I guess. dropping a saddle of one millimeter or something like that might just be enough to like relieve something. It's You can make some tiny changes that have massive impact. So hopefully it's just something simple that you can then be like, wow, that feels so much better. Mm. Yeah, yeah. And that that's what I'm hop I'm gonna look into that and also then I know that I've got bad ankle mobility. So like straight away after the race I'm like, if it's something that is because I'm being lazy with a bit of like prehab rehab sort of stuff, 'cause again, w I think over the last few years with kids, the first thing that I've binned off ninety percent of the time is any kind of stretching, rehab, mobility, strength work, you know. Yeah, that's fair. And I think it's the same it's the same with every triathlete. The first thing that will always go Exactly. It's like Am I gonna bank my swim bike and run or am I gonna fuck about, you know, stretching my calves, you know? but and it's and I think so one of my mates actually, he's kind of taking he's an age trip triathlete taking time out of the the sport at the moment. He said to me, he's like he said, like, but Mate, I don't even have kids and I don't do that shit. Yeah, I don't know fucking roll about on the floor. I want to go and do an FTP test. looking into these small things might be the thing that you need to have like a massive step forward because he's like he's like I've seen like he's see he's like I see you I see what you do on Strava like and this is a guy from like who's got like no like coaching or anything authority but he's like I've seen like the intense training you've done, like the years you've stacked on each other now, all these other things. And he's like if there there could just be like, you know, a thing or two that like help just unlock Mmm. You know, the key kind of thing. Well, you never know, that's the thing. And if someone just saying something simple like that gets you fired up to leave no stone unturned and do these little things, then that's good. Mm, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think that's a way to look at it as well, 'cause like yeah. If it's always frustrating 'cause I think and I think it and it's it's partly my fault because of how I've performed in in triathlons in the last coup few years, but I think the notion is that I'm a a a terrible runner. And it's really frustrating because I like I know I'm not a terrible runner. Hmm Thank I know, this is the thing, you're actually a really good runner. It's just on a... I don't know, in races sometimes you just haven't... You don't run to your potential that often and it's annoying. It's annoying because you're like, all I've got is the result to show where I'm at, but I know I'm way further ahead than that. But it's hard. Yeah. Yeah. I mean mate, do you do you think do you think I'm a one twenty three half marathon off the bike runner? I mean, maybe, maybe 122. I mean, we're talking on a good day here, mate. Come on. It's, mean, look, we need these results because it makes the good ones feel even better. So it's, it's hard. I know I know it's in there. I know it's in there. mate, it was yeah, pitiful, pitiful. But Yeah, and and I think I think as much as as much as they can be disappointing, as much as you know, you can be pissed off about a result, you know, I I think there's still an air of like I had a fun like so I I shared a accommodation with Dan and Rebecca for the weekend, my dad flew out to come watch the race as well. like by all accounts I had Mmm. Nice. Like I had a good positive experience. Like I had a fun weekend racing in Poland. Would I would I want to sit behind a desk between nine and five doing something else? Fuck no. you know, do I wanna do I wanna perform better? Absolutely. but I think there's a there's an element of like and I even said this to my coach earlier, like there's an element of like giving myself a bit of grace because Yeah, life is hectic, life is busy and things haven't panned out Hmm. Exactly. this weekend, whatever, but also there's there's still like that hunger that I I know I've got more in and I'm gonna keep trying until hopefully I find that Yeah. Yeah, and that's what you like, as long as you keep that, then it's like, it doesn't matter the, obviously you want good results, right? But it doesn't matter the results. Whereas, yeah, as soon as you lose that like insatiable hunger for it, then maybe it is time to question like, maybe I need to change or maybe I need to do, but as long as you keep that like, no, I know I'm better than that, I can keep showing up, then it will, I just feel like the stars will align at some point, hopefully in Swansea, mate, in a few weeks. Yeah, yeah, we all we all want good results, yeah. Yeah. Well where we go like two up off the front, isn't it? That's the plan. We'll we'll talk we'll talk some tactics in off area. We will be doing we will be doing some of we'll be doing some of those hang back five minute attacks. They'll be coming. 100 % well you're gonna have to wait a little bit out of this, won't you? we will. Yes, we will. We're gonna we're absolutely rip. yeah, 100%. People don't know what's gonna hit them. I look forward to that. The only issue with so many Brits on the start line is like, right, who's allies who who's your allies and who's who's not? It's like, right, how much do I like you today? Well, that is it. Like everyone's like a friend until they're not. So you're like, hmm, okay. So yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How much do I want to piss you off? It would be so much fun. Yeah, yeah. I bought a chain catcher specifically for Swansea. So fingers crossed I don't have a bloody chain drop, but we'll see. Fucking hate Harry's white bike today. Mm-hmm. I I actually need to after this com after we drop get off air now, mate, I'm gonna I'm gonna grow you a couple more couple more things on bike tech but I know mate, an a an hour in I think people are switched off so All right, we'll save that just for you and me. I don't think anyone else wants to hear that. Yeah, yeah. All right, well, yeah, hopefully everyone's enjoyed Andy's debrief of his race. yeah, fingers crossed we have, well, we're both racing Swansea. So we'll have another kind of like pre-race podcast where we can chat about that and then we can chat about the... But you got your we got pre race next week. Is that r next weekend as well? Yeah. So we can do a bit anyone anyone else going out to Europeans with you? Or just you go and solo? yeah, I've got Europeans next weekend. Yeah, so we can chat a little bit about that. I saw Finarensis on the start list, so maybe I could get him on. Shall we get shall we get that handsome man on the podcast? Who's that? Finn. I was I was complimenting how Finn looked. Oh, I thought you said, I thought you just said some random name, Handsome Man. I was like, who the fuck's that? He's not a handsome man. Bloody, yeah, okay. No, we'll get him, I think he'd enjoy that. We'll get him on the podcast, get him chatting about something. He won't shut up. It'll be like five hour bloody podcast, mate. Do that's Let's do it. Let's do it. Right, mate. Cheers for let's let's catch up next week. Right, cheers, bait, baby, bait. Yeah, sweet as. Cheers mate.