Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Welcome back to the Uncomfortable Triathlon podcast. I am one of your hosts, pro triathlete Andrew Horswell Turner. I'm joined by my other pro triathlete friend, Harry Palmer. How are you doing today, mate? You good? Yeah, good. I don't know why you had to put so much emphasis on pro triathletes, but yeah, we are Well, I I thought I thought like I I know like our mums listen to the show and like maybe our girlfriends or wives but like you know, a few people might listen to it and go like who are these guys? So I thought I'd just like reiterate the fact that we do race like semile like semi decent We are also joined by We are professional athletes, guys. So take us very seriously. Yeah. You know, I I don't know how to big ⁓ up the most, but ⁓ pro triathlete's well, some some say maybe the fourth member of the Norwegian hype train, but you never know. They don't know it yet, but he he's secretly there. Pro triathlete. Fit their ends. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha. Finn: Thanks for having me on lads. I think the emphasis on the professionals is definitely necessary for myself at the moment. But no, appreciate the confidence. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Ha ha ha. No, no. G cheers for having cheers for having us. Cheers for coming on. That's what I was meant to say. ⁓ You guys are both currently sat in well in different locations, but both in Sweden in Jokoping. Junkeping? Something like that. I feel like so the lady at Border Controls today said Zhong Xi Ping. So there you go, I've nailed the pronunciation. I'm pretty much a local. Hmm. That sounds nice, yeah. How was I know Harry you had the travel day today? How was your travel day? Fucking horrible mate. I hate travelling. It's just like it's so much admin. Airports are full of people that get in your way and they they're they're annoying. And airports never have air conditioning. And I'm stood there sweating my bollocks off with too many bags and everything takes forever. But I mean it's no, it's fine. It's honestly it was fine, but it's just been a long day. ⁓ and also So what you are you said four AM start and then where do you fly from? Yeah, mate, there's like the the fact that I live forty five minutes away from Bristol Airport and this year I have not flown from Bristol Airport because none of the places I'm going to have flights from Bristol. So I had to go from Bloody Stansted, which actually as an airport is pretty good. It's just annoying that it's three and a half hours away. So yeah, it is what it is. But I mean I hey, I can't complain too much. Mm. ⁓ because life's not that bad. So yeah. We're all we're all good. Yeah, I mean one one one four AM wake up's not gonna ⁓ not gonna kill you. I mean I I didn't I said to you earlier but I'm not sure what was worse, you know, the fact that you had to wake up early or the fact that you had to walk around in a Malachi t shirt Well, I don't know, mate. I feel pretty hangin' right now, so it could it could well kill me. I know. I did I did think everyone's looking at me here 'cause on the back it does say in quite bold writing dropped as a kid. Yeah. I was like I was there like fuck, people do think I'm a right twat, don't they? ⁓ but yeah, and ⁓ I think I think Finn you travelled out yesterday, didn't you? Ha ha ha. Finn: Dropped as a baby, not dropped since. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: ⁓ man. Finn: Yeah, that's right. Just the way the sort of flights worked out. My mom's very kindly come out with me. It was nice to have someone else sort of traveling with you. You don't get to spend that much time with family anymore. So it's a nice one. But for her it was suited a bit better. She goes the day before, so I thought I'd get out of that a earlier. And I'm glad I did actually, because the weather looks horrific for the next couple of days. I'm not sure when you're going to be able to go out and test your bike unless you're happy to get it soaked and everything. yeah, downside of racing in Scandinavia, I suppose, you know. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah. Nice. Yeah. Yeah, it's It's not looking so good the next few days. which is not ideal, but I'm also aware that it's like you can't really I mean what's the gonna be the benefit of riding ninety minutes in the rain tomorrow? Like you're just the risk versus reward just isn't there, is it? Yeah. Finn: He Andrew Horsfall-Turner: It's not worth the ⁓ the extra stress of having to clean your bike after. That's that's the worst thing. Just the stress of having to like I don't know if you take e I don't know if you guys travel with stuff but I would have to go to a shop and buy like extra cleaning product to like actually get the bike ready to go again. It's just not worth it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And just like the risk of getting a puncture and just like I don't know, it's not it's not worth it. Whereas when you're this close to the race, like yeah, you can do some simple activation stuff and just be like just get yourself ready for it ultimately and hopefully I mean everyone's gonna be in the same boat 'cause I mean if anyone rides tomorrow, they're gonna get really soaked and miserable. Have you either of you ⁓ thought about getting one of those like was it feedback trainers, the travel ones? 'Cause I've heard I've heard great things. I when I s when I was in South Africa the Andamerys had one. And ⁓ I mean I didn't use it 'cause the weather was beautiful. But I would think in like a race like this. Yeah. But a race like this it would kind of be perfect just to like turn the legs around for like forty five minutes, an hour. ⁓ Finn: have seen. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Just rubbing it in. So d do those just fit in your suitcase? So I think they weigh about I wanna say like six kilos or eight kilos, but they pack down quite small. So you'd fit them in like a normal like I guess ⁓ like a twenty three kilo case with some clothes in you could chuck one of them in. ⁓ so I guess, yeah, if you were gonna do a probably more useful for big trips as well, I guess, if you're travelling far and you can if you're paying for a big case anyway. Mm. Yeah. Finn: I reckon training camps would be where they'd come in clutch though. when, know, cause you always go to these places and the weather is good, but say you go to Lansdross and you've got like a sandstorm that comes through or whatever, like then you can actually get a bike ride in where you can't always do it or whether you go altitude. And obviously sometimes it can be a bit sketchy out there. You can actually bring a turbo with you when you're not, if you're not driving. I know you like to drive that all the way down to Andorra, Harry, but some of us are a bit more, ⁓ quite the patience. Especially when it's for Freddie Webb, eating all your food. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Mm-hmm. I love a sixteen hour drive, mate. Freddie mate, the funniest thing driving with Freddie Webb is you know when he's awake because he's eating. So so you can hear the crisps munch next to you. Yeah, yeah, he's either sleeping or he's eating. What a bloke. Yeah, yeah. Finn: You Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Man of my own heart that is. Finn: That's triathlete though, isn't it really? Anyway, we'd actually get talking about this race rather than just chatting about turbos and such. No, I know what you'd normally do about this thing, but I'd seen something more. This is it, ⁓ I see, okay. Carry on then. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Mm-hmm. Trying complete bollocks. No no no, this is it. So so This is about what we gotta do. What ⁓ before we actually get into the race lads, ⁓ what I was actually quite interested in is I don't know how regular your training week has been compared to like other taper weeks, but ⁓ a couple of people mentioned that they quite enjoy, you know, hearing things like, you know, training volume, T S S, you know, a lot of like athletes who have like training peaks and stuff, like I guess a kind of learning more about it, but also it's quite interesting to them here like how many TSS a week you normally would do and then like how much TSS you do in like a taper week and stuff like that. So I don't know if ⁓ one of you wants to kind of shoot in terms of like what you've done in Taperweek and is it pretty standard for you? ⁓ do you want to take it first, Harry? Shit, I was gonna ask Finn to go for that, but alright. ⁓ Finn Finn's Finn's a bloody guest. Come on man, no one wants to listen to me. ⁓ Finn, Finn, Finn, you Finn you go, Finn you go, you go. Finn: You Yeah, sure. Yeah, I was going to say people probably more interested in Harry's taper protocol after he beats me about 15 places that weekend. But I'll happily go through mine if you like. I'll get my training peaks up here. I'll you all the accurate data. ⁓ So what? Do you want like a normal training week and then what taper week? Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha Yeah, please. Yeah, the actual stats. Yeah, please do. Yeah, so like what's a normal what's a n like a you know, not like maybe your biggest week ever, but what is like a pretty standard training week in terms of like hours and TSS for you? Finn: Yeah, like, yeah, an average week would be somewhere between like probably 23 to 25 hours worth of aerobic stuff, maybe like two hours worth of gym. So on Training at Peace, it comes up as like a generous like 27 to 29, but actually of actual aerobic stuff, probably about 23 to 25. And taper week, including the race for me actually, so it's something I've changed this year, it's quite interesting, as I've actually cut down my taper weeks a little bit, and recovery weeks. And the reason for that, had, you know, you may not. may or may not be aware, had quite a few health issues last few years and just like struggling, especially in and around races. I two races, I'm at Austria and then it was Challenge Vieux-Boucour, I basically got ill race week. ⁓ And that was variety of reasons. I think one of the things was I was, you know, I was potentially just overdoing it little bit going into a race and then... coming up as I got into the race with the exposure to sort of the, you know, on the flight and, know, when you're traveling, you have all these bugs and all these kids coughing and sneezing and, whatever behind you and all this, all this, yeah, all this stuff. And sadly, some of us haven't got the immunity built up from having been coughed and sneezed all the time. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah. I know about it. Ha ha. Finn: But yeah, and then you show up on race day and then in Austria I woke up just like, know, full of flu and similar and viewable course. So actually cut down a bit on the volume and I've found I've actually not had these same issues. with that, you know, including race now I'm looking at something about 16 hours. ⁓ Like, yeah, somewhere between 14 and 17 hours average I'm just looking at my previous race week. So, you know, obviously you're racing for about four hours. ⁓ Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Okay. Finn: within that since for 70.3. So what does that, that's like 12 hours of training on race week, something like that. ⁓ Keep the intensity there. So like the days where obviously with travel, it's a bit awkward, but what I tend to do is if I have a, you if I normally have a hard run on a certain day, rather than doing whatever 14, 12 K roof of threshold, you do like four to six K roof of threshold or something, you still keep the intensity in there as like proportion, but. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Okay. Finn: you just cut the volume more. And I've been cutting the volume a bit more aggressively as well this year, again, just to try and as like a way of managing this illness issue I've been having. And yeah, that seems to work quite well. So I appreciate that still. Yes. In terms of TSS, normally TSS, somewhere between, I don't follow it super accurately, but somewhere between like 1200 and 1500, depending on the week, like in a normal week and then in week, more like, so it adds up to about 750, 800, mainly because the race is like, Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah. Finn: quite a lot of that obviously. ⁓ Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah, it's a big big big TSS erases, yeah. Yeah. Finn: Yeah, it's a big CSS day, the old actual race. But yeah, that's sort of roughly what my week looks like. Each week looks a bit different because you travel on different days. Then when you get there, obviously, like when me and Harry went out to Salou, was a bit sort of, yeah, a bit, you know, sort of just there for the vibes, weren't we, Harry? loving it. oh yeah. Malik, I'll be like, you want to go for another one? Yeah, let's do it. Go for a swim. Yeah, whatever. It was a bit random, but, you've got to actually get a bit of, you get a bit, you know, as long as you're getting the, like, as a proportion of some amount of intensity. I think that's the key thing for me in the table. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Ha ha Yeah. Yeah. Finn: week is to make sure that you don't fall into the trap of like only doing easy stuff and just, you know, it's really important to still keep everything firing and actually get your heart rate up and actually still make sure that you are like, it's not do your body doesn't always get shocked by me not done. know, having Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Easy stuff. Yeah, yeah. ⁓ Mm. Finn: changed up too much. I think that is a bit of a thing that people fall into. think I can't get any more fitness now. So just gonna like lay right off it, tick the boxes, but just keep it nice and easy. But actually now like keep the keep the intensity there, but cut the volume down to our fresh but yeah, go from there. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: So you're you're doing like you're you're you're s sort of hitting somewhere around that like I guess six including the race itself, like sixty, sixty five percent of like a of a standard weekish. So you are you're probably drop in thirty, thirty three percent, thirty five percent. So yeah, yeah. Nice. What about you, Harry? Is that is that similar or different? Finn: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so at least, yeah. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah, it's it's it's interesting 'cause Rob notoriously is someone who would taper athletes quite aggressively. he's very much like, you know, two weeks out, start to taper, blah de blah de blah. And the race week, like I know it's something that maybe Josh Lewis, who we've had on the podcast before, he's struggled with a little bit because he's someone who likes to keep like higher volume going into race week. But actually I always find actually similar to what Finn has said, like the If if I taper more aggressively, I actually generally seem to feel better on race day. And obviously there is nuance to that. It's like if you just do fuck all a week, you're gonna feel lethargic and shit. So you need to do a certain level of intensity. But it'll be very similar. Like so, like a an average working week for me would be twenty-six to twenty-eight hours. If I'm pushing, you know, the last the last few weeks I've done ⁓ around 32 hours, but that's been like a specific block. Yeah, yeah. And it's been like you know, like an average week would maybe be twelve to fourteen hundred TSS, but I've been doing like fifteen fifty, sixteen hundred TSS, in those like bigger weeks. And then race week, I would knock it down to again, like including the race, probably sixteen ish hours, and it would look more like six hundred, six fifty TSS. and I probably e do even less like intensity race week than Than Finn does. So, like, for example, on Tuesday, I would have just done like 4K worth of speed work. today, like, did a few strides. Tomorrow I'm gonna do a few strides. this is talking about the run, sorry, not 4k worth of speed work in the pool. ⁓ that would there's a that's a very big difference. That's a big that's a big speed set of the port. And yeah, it's just like keeping good intensity, getting your heart rate up every day so you're not getting lethargic. But it's just like not doing anything for the sake of doing anything. You know, like I mean I I chatted to Rob today and it was I was like, mate, the weather tomorrow looks shocking. Like, do you do you want me to do this ride? Because I if you want me to do it, I will do it. And he was like he was like, mate, there's no benefit to doing it. Like if you go out in the rain, like there's no point. Like get your feet up and do something tomorrow, like do a swim and run, and on Saturday, get out on the bike. Yeah. that's absolutely fine now. You're not losing anything. And if you if you force yourself to like play catch up on race week, you're just gonna make yourself feel even worse on race day. So I think it's like just roll with the punches. Obviously, with the weather, Finn and I have had to change like plans a little bit, but you've just kind of gotta do gotta deal with the hand that you've been dealt, essentially. Yeah. guess with the other other question I just have about the week before we hit the race. ⁓ taper week, obviously you got coaches yourself. ⁓ does does your coach do similar kind of race week sessions? Do they vary it a lot? Like do they have like a you know, for example, you said you had four K of of kind of work on that run session, Harry, is that like a bread and butter run session you do every race week? Or does that vary? It does vary, like it's just like the total volume will stay the same. So let's say it's four K, but you know, maybe sometimes the reps will be eight hundred, sometimes they'll be a K. Like there'll be it'll be a variety. ⁓ there'll probably be like a mix of three different sessions that we roll through. And similar with the similar with the swim and similar with the bike, like it'll all be ⁓ the same kind of duration or the same kind of total volume of work. It'll just be in a slightly different package so that you're Okay. Keeping interesting, I guess. Yeah, that makes sense. Cool. What about Finn: See, that's funny because, yeah, Steve, my coach, absolutely loves just the same session, like each week. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Does it? Finn: Same thing, boom, boom, boom. And you know what? I actually love it as well because you kind of, can, you can look at the heart rate. You can look at the, you know, the pace, you do on the same loop. And I know it's probably a bit of a, you know, I'm quite bad for just in the exact same run route, like out and back, same thing, but it's sort of, means, it means it's repeatable. You can actually look at your, you know, where you're at each week when you're progressing with training, but then on the table week as well. mean, you can't read into your sessions in table week too much. actually quite like the repeatability, it's like, you know, it's worked, you know, you can do exactly the same thing, same time. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Mm. Finn: you change obviously based on your fitness like pace wise and stuff that the pace has changed depending on how fit you are but having very similar sessions obviously maybe not you know you're not doing the same sessions in January as you are in in April, May or whatever unless you yeah unless you feel that you've regressed you have to go back to the original sessions yeah we're starting again they're not racing until September now you still get but ⁓ Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Start again. Finn: But sessions do change there, but within a block actually having quite similar sessions and maybe adding it, maybe go, maybe if you're really excited and if he's feeling like really ambitious, he might make you go from like 12 by a K to like 13 by a K if you're really lucky. wow, boom, I've smashed that. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Nice. I like it. That is although although like odd number that is that's pretty rogue. That is crazy. Finn: Yeah, I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, know, just use that as an example or whatever. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah. Fi Finn, you said something you said something then that I'd picked up on that I thought was quite interesting and I remember I think it was the the week before your last race which was like seventy point three ⁓ in Sardinia, you had like yeah, you you basically put on like Gostrava or something like that, like you did a run session, you said like felt awful, must be race week. And like can you talk to that? 'Cause you obviously you said you can't read too much into how you feel race week. ⁓ ha ha how do you normally feel? D do you normally feel up and down? Like how d how does that week normally go? Finn: Yeah. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ I mean, I don't travel particularly well. think I get quite tight. get sort of tired a bit like Harry. Obviously your sleep pattern gets thrown off and because we're weak, we don't have children. You sort of get your own head about it. And I think that's more than what it is, more than anything. I think in Alghero in particular, when I arrived there, that was a of a brutal travel day. It was a of later one. Our flight was delayed quite badly, so we didn't get into our... Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Mm-hmm. Finn: It was like a three hour drive from the airport to where we were staying as well. We didn't get into like 2.30 in the morning. So I woke up next morning and I like, you're not going to feel great either way. So that was, that was part of it there. But no, even this week, like I did my run session on Tuesday. It was hot. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: ⁓ Yeah. ⁓ man. Finn: and I felt terrible. Like I was actually running. It's one of those where you look at you, you're running along, you feel your heart rate getting really high. You look at your heart rate, you're okay, I'm just running away too quick. must, you know, need to slow it down. Whatever. You look down at your watch, like 325, like race pace. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, fuck. Yeah. Finn: I was running three weeks ago, I was running this for the half marathon off the bike. What the hell's going on? And sometimes that just happens, isn't it? I think you do just occasionally have bad days and I do think the bigger element with the taper week and the reason we do feel a bit crap, I have a theory is that yes, you feel a bit crap post travel, but I think it's psychological. I do think there's almost an element of a little bit of not self-sabotage, but... Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah. Finn: your mind is kind of like stress and it's sort of a bit like you're anxious, you're almost wanting to prove to yourself, despite knowing that you shouldn't be trying to prove anything to yourself and want to like show that you're fit in this session. And then when it doesn't feel as amazing as you feel it should, which it probably won't, especially in the early doors of a taper week, because you've just done a massive, probably done like this huge block and then you like starting to taper at the start of the week, you're actually gonna be quite tired and a bit fatigued and your legs are probably gonna be quite sore. And then if it's 35 degrees like it was last week as well, it probably won't, you know, throughout that last week and then Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah. Mm. Finn: And on the day itself, it's hot as well. When you're doing that session, like, yeah, you're not going to feel great. You're not going to go well. And yet you do the session, they are the shit session bar crap or whatever. And then actually, but if you did that same session or similar session, just in a normal training block, you wouldn't think much of it. Just like, it was a hot day. I didn't feel great. Like you kind of write it off, but cause it's on race week, you, you highlight it more in your head. Like, ⁓ my God, I've lost all my fitness. Like, I'm going to run like crap and crap. And it's this big thing. And then you remember it more as a result, whereas we all have bad sessions, like all not bad, but like, Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah. Finn: weaker sessions or sessions that feel as good as they normally would within a block when you're fatigued if you're training hard enough you should have a fair amount of sessions that don't feel amazing but that you still get through in race week because you're tapering you feel like ⁓ I should be feeling good for these like I should be really fit I should be flying when actually if you get your tape bang on you shouldn't be feeling that great at the start of the taper you should be feeling great on the race yeah so yeah but anyway Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Mm. Yeah. Should we go on race day? Yeah. Yeah. No, no, I I I just I I think it's always such an interesting topic because I I've been tapering, I think, since I was like 'cause I came from a swimming background, I've been tapering since I was like fourteen, fifteen, and like swimming tapers are so like so rogue, ⁓ in the sense that like you'll swim for you'll train for literally like three, four months and you'll do like these big like you're you know, the cycles, recovery weeks, all this sort of stuff. Yeah. Finn: in. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: But then you then get to the end of like the season and then this this big taper. And as Harry kinda said about his coach, there's this kind of like even sometimes longer than two weeks, it just feels like, you know, two and a half, three weeks, everything's just like slowly coming down to this big final meet. And it's like you just sometimes you just don't know like where your body's at. It's just yeah. It's ⁓ I think it's an art form to get to get a taper right and to then understand like what works for you as well. I think it is Mm. Yeah. Finn: Yes. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: It's it I don't think it's e something that anyone ever perfects. I think it's something that you kind of constantly, you know, tweak, change, and like yeah, you'll have good races and bad races and sometimes you'll do like a similar week taper and you'll feel similar throughout the week and then you'll have a different outcome come Sunday, you know? ⁓ yeah, I think that's sports sometimes. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's always difficult. You just gotta like trust it, haven't you? Mm. Well ⁓ Finn: Yeah, I mean, yeah. The trend nowadays is to sort of train more, you know, and actually only taper for like a couple of days going into the race and things. And that is what a lot of these athletes are doing nowadays. And it works well for them. But I think the key thing is what you said there, Andy, is actually trialing different things. And I know some athletes go really well off quite, you know, off of relatively, you know, short. and you know, only a couple of days taper going into something like a 70.3 or whatever, and some go better off your more traditional, like two plus, where you saw like an Ironman type taper as well. I think, and it's the same with anything, whether, you as a coach or as an athlete or whatever, like is to recognise the fact that there is no one size fits all, just because Christian Blumenfeld only tapers for two days and does a full Ironman seven days out, doesn't mean that that's the right thing for Joe Bloggs to do when he's aiming for his sub 13, you know, Ironman or whatever. Like, obviously, that's an extreme example, but it's the same for us Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah. Mm-hmm. One day. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Finn: as pros as well. It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking, ⁓ shit, maybe I should be going out and I should be training normally for most of the week and then just tapering down those last two days. seems to what more people are doing. actually, like you've said, Harry, if you've done a massive training block, there's overreaching a little bit for the three weeks prior to a big race. Actually, you may well need that period of... That little period of the sort of... Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Russ, yeah. Finn: be in peach shape for that, to try and shed a little bit of that fatigue. And sometimes you only need two, three days for that, but some people might need more and that's individual, that's where you are in your journey as well. know, Norwegian's been going since they were three years old or whatever. takes them less time to recover from these things than us, know. And Andy's perspectivist, I bet they're not being woken up by blade children every three hours. They can recover a bit faster as well. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Well and it and it's and it's also like I think there's I kinda mentioned it in our last podcast when I was chatting to Harry about ⁓ my race in Gdanks and although there's the training aspect in race week, there's the like, you know, you've got still got life, you've got as you guys have both done, you've got travel. ⁓ and what I did really badly going into challenge Gdanks was just like I just had too much to do in the week, got too chaotic, I was trying to pack a bite with like while while I had the kids. That is true. Finn: Yeah. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: ⁓ and it's like I think sometimes it's like s as yeah, you're you're trying to prepare the body, but I think trying to like reduce any kind of I always think like any kind of stress that you could just like leave till next week, I don't know, like any kind of life admin that that doesn't need to be done right now, let's just leave it till Tuesday next week, you know, let's just push it back. which is easier said than done. ⁓ but I think that definitely plays an effect in taper too. Yeah. Yeah. Finn: Yeah, no, absolutely. The issue with that is when you're like me or Harry at the moment where you're like in a big training block, training really hard and each, cause you're training really hard and you're really tired, like, I'll put that to next week. You keep doing it to the next week. And then it comes a point where you actually have a bit of time and tape a week. think, Oh, this doesn't even happen at some stage. That's why Harry wants to end this call fast. So he's got to get his, uh, goes to actually turn up or something. He's got to his account. Yeah. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. I'll do ever I'll do everything this week. That's it, yeah. I've got so much admin to catch up on. Ha ha Yeah, gotta do some tax returns. Right, lads, let's get into it. So ⁓ does one of you do either of you have the start list or do you either of you want to rattle off some some names on the start list? Finn: Anyway, should talk about the race. I can look it up if you like. Let's have a little look. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah yeah, go for it. ⁓ I can tell you two names that are on the star list. There is a Harry Palmer and there's a Finarens. And then after that after that I'm gonna need some help. Big dogs. Finn: Look at you, fucking hell. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: There are some very good names on the start list. Finn: Yeah, no, so. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: ⁓ I no, I did I did see, yeah. Finn: Yes, I mean, yeah, it's so it's pretty solid prize money, wasn't it? What is it Harry, like 75k or something. So it's obviously going to attract a pretty solid start list as a result European champ. So having a look at it here. So Fabian Kraft, he won it last year, didn't he? So he's a bit of a bit of a weapon. Lasse Priesters, well, he's the one who came second in T100 the other day, like absolutely flying. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah. Yeah. Hell of a runner. Hell of a runner. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Finn: He's a good cyclist as well though. He went with Rico Bogan for a couple laps and some like when no one else, it's like he's gonna, he's gonna absolutely fly. That Gabriel Sander, he came third last year here, didn't he? Yeah, I believe, yeah. Harry Parr, not sure who that is. Mark Dubrik's here as well. Bloody hell, yeah, that's gonna be a quick old swim. Yeah. Then that Valdemar Solak, he'll be, he was set on the bike as well. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Y ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, what's shopper? ⁓ Yeah, good swimmer. Nice. Yeah, great swim biker. Fuck. ⁓ man. Finn: Yeah, he's that guy who's like three minutes ahead of you at the challenge champs and you're like, who the fuck is that guy? Yeah, you keep listening, you know. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Mate, the swim is gonna be on. This guy's like fucking Yeah, well the bike's gonna be on as I everything's just gonna be on because that Fabian Kraft he ran here he ran like a sixty eight here last year. That And then the and then the bike's gonna be on by the sounds of it too. He ran he ran s he ran sixty eight in ZMZ as well, which is like Yeah. Fucking unbeliev there are guys who are like running there's probably three guys on the start list that can run like sixty eight and like Well no but the scary thing the scary thing in Zell was that it was a legit accurate course and it was there was some hills in it and some gravel. It was like not a quick run course. Yeah, so he if he's on a good day, v y again, you've got to have a good day. Like he he's also like had bad days and not ran that quick, so it's like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Finn: Yeah, I mean Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah, well, yeah. Finn: I'm looking at the cyclists on here and actually I rode the course today, ⁓ almost of it. And it's punchier than I thought it was going to be, to be fair. Like it's got some proper, like, you know, some actual climbs on it. I went out, I didn't actually ride from town. I went a little bit out first and went through this, you know, sort of the first little town you ride for having gone out and looked down my Wahoo and it beeped up said, climb 4.3 K climb at three percent. was like, what the fuck? was meant to be like a rolling course, a bloody mountain here. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Mm. Mm. Ha ha ha ha ha. Yeah. Finn: at the course I see see Tor Bendix Madsen I see I see Robert Callan I'm seeing Janik Shofler I'm seeing Peter Heinrich I'm seeing yeah I'm seeing Priestley yeah I'm seeing I'm seeing Rasmus I'm seeing Rasmus Svenigsen I'm seeing Matt Palmer I'm looking at this I'm like ⁓ no this fin is gonna get dropped Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah, Robert Callan. Nice. Yannick Schoffler. ⁓ fuck, Pete Heimrick's here as well. ⁓ wow. This this this list is pretty ⁓ this list is pretty thick. Finn: It's going to be a battle of attrition really, because it's 12 metres last year, isn't it? Draft. ⁓ Andrew Horsfall-Turner: I'm glad we've got Race Ranger this year. Yeah. Yeah. Finn: Oh, did you not have race ranger last year? Because I thought, yeah, I was thinking that because I looked at the results last year and thought they kind of all came together on a bigger group because I didn't obviously think. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: No, didn't have Race Ranger and Yeah I remember I remember you saying after the race last year, Harry, that it was a little bit some of the drafting was a little bit dodgy. Okay. Yeah. It was a bit questionable in places. I do think though, like I mean, look, the the guys who are really good swim bikers, they are gonna absolutely slap it. But I do think there will be benefit from being like on your own a little bit in the first twenty, thirty K, 'cause like Finn said, like it's a little bit punchy, it's a bit rolling, it's a bit twisty. Like if you could if you're a good ⁓ if you've got a good ability to keep the chain tight and keep momentum over those rollers, like You'll move way faster than a a pack of however many athletes. Mm. Finn: Yeah, I mean. 20 meters with race ranger, when it is punchy like that, it's kind of brutal, especially if you've got motorbikes next to you, because you're going up a climb and they're not, some of these are quite steep ones, 20 meters going up a steep climb, that's 40 meters when you go across the ridge, they're gone, unless you're actually a similar level athlete to them and able to actually keep up with them normally. If you've got a motorbike next to you, people are gonna get blown apart for sure, so it's good that, I agree. I liked, yeah, I mean, I don't think even a dodgy 12 meter wall Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Finn: save me against Torbjörn Dix Madsen when he's sending his forecast. Yeah, just, it's state of mind, isn't it? What would, yeah, would ⁓ Blumfeldt think? Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Mm-hmm. ⁓ mate, you'll be fine. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I guess I aga I guess like from from both of your perspectives ⁓ it'd be interesting to kind of you know, you're gonna have somewhat a a race plan and you may not wanna disclose that plan a hundred percent on on here. ⁓ but I guess initial kind of thoughts and tactics, do do either of you have a bit of like a plan of like this is what I need to try and do to have the best race for me? What about have you got anything, Finn? Yeah, yeah. Finn: I'm going to swim really hard and get on the bike and ride as hard as I can. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Ride really hard and then run really hard. Finn: I'm going to run as fast as I can off the smashed legs. That is literally my game plan. basically like people, does make me like, in all seriousness to that is kind of how I approach every race. Cause someone like yourself, Andy, sort of, you're sort of thinking in the swim, you're like tactically, like, where do I sit? Do I sit on the feet or I push off the front? And then you're on the bike, I don't want to tow people along. Like last week's podcast, I was listening, I don't want to tow people on. So I attacked or whatever. then on the run, know, the whole thing, whereas me, literally I get in the swim, I'm getting punched and getting beaten up and swimming as Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah. ⁓ Ha ha Ha ha. Finn: as I can the whole swim and I come out with it wherever I end up coming out with my feet I end up on the bike I go as hard as I can until my hamstrings cramp Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah. Hehehe. Finn: and then I limp it in and then I run as fast as I can based on how tired I am and then whatever position I can be. There's no tactics. There's no thought for me. Like I'm just going as hard as I can the whole time and then whatever what will be will be. That's what ends up happening. So does make me laugh when people are talking tactics. like attack. It's like attack. What you talking about attack? Have you got enough left for an attack? Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Ha ha. Ha ha It's like it's like Ha ha ha. I love it how Finn Finn's Finn Finn's whole race ⁓ Finn's whole race ⁓ Yeah. I got muffin! Finn: Yeah, just me! 200m into the swim! That's the like... Just leaping, leaping through. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: I love how you I love how you're gonna judge your whole performance based on like when you upload your ride on training peaks and see if like you've got like a season's best twenty minute power and you're like, Yep, good ride. Finn: Yeah, generally, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I tell you. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah, nice. Finn: Don't get me wrong, you have moments, especially, I mean, with 20 meters of draft and the punching course, and it's slightly less so, but you end up in a pack coming out of the water. You do try and use that, you do try and surf the wheels legally as best you can. There is a thought process there, you're going on the run as well. You're not just running really hard. Obviously you're trying to pace it, even in things. There is a thought process there, but yeah, feel like yourself, Harry, you might, I feel like you're an assist and things would probably be more interesting than mine purely because from you, you've actually got a few cards to play, if that makes sense. I'm there of my life. my six and my eight, you know, to play my hand of poker. I've got nothing. I've got no aces up the sleeve. I've got nothing I can try. You know, I've got my one play, like to try desperately to it. Yeah, exactly. I'm just begging that everyone crashes out because it rains and so on. And then somehow I might flukely win. Whereas Harry can actually like tactically, know, he's got some chips to play. He's got some bits to do or whatever. Like, you know, you sort of feel like... Andrew Horsfall-Turner: You're you're hoping for that you're hoping for that a straight on the river. Ha ha ha. Ha ha. You never know. Finn: You know, you feel like you actually have and I feel I was I was actually riding this I thinking this course like with a race engine 20 meters this is like it's obviously not it's not like Swansea because Swansea is Like the most you know, the road surfaces are pretty terrible and the descent from that small Andrew Horsfall-Turner: It's shit, yeah. Finn: the sense of much more sketchy and things, but like there are elements that remind me of it. Like, you know, with some of the punchy climbs, there were times on that course, like quite technical corners at times where I thought like, if someone like yourself who does like a a little punch up a climb or a little surge down and descend, you know, how to descend things. would, like, I do feel like you could do some damage on this course. mean, obviously, ⁓ you know, there's some others you could also do damage, but, but no, could definitely change your hands. I'd be interested to hear what. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Mm. Yeah, that's the problem. Finn: I mean, yeah, you know, I think you're safe telling me, cause I don't think I'm gonna, I'm not sure I'm gonna sabotage your plans. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah, well I mean I don't also think I I don't think Fabian Kraft is listening to this podcast, no offense. And Although although yeah that is true and I also think that ⁓ I think Harry's game tactic in the swim is gonna be very similar to yours then just swim as hard as you can. Yeah. This the see this is this is the thing, is like my tactic for the most part is the same as Finn's. It's just as I've got better over the years, I've got a little bit closer to the front, but I'm still just going balls to the wall. So I mean luckily like this swim is not technical at all. It's literally just an out, left and back in. So it's like a long rectangle. So it Finn: Yeah, he just comes out a bit further up, yeah. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah. Finn: Yeah. Yeah. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: That should keep that should keep everyone together a little bit more. That's kind of my thought process is like it strings out when you've obviously got Yeah. Yeah. So I there's also because it's like a a rowing lake, there is like a a rope underneath on the fastest lines. So you don't really need to sight. You can just keep your eye on the rope and and just know you're going dead straight. So actually, it could be quite I mean, obviously my goal is to try and lose Finn: Don't you worry, I'll still manage to get dropped Andy, don't you worry. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Ha ha as little time as possible in the swim. I know for sure, like, you know, yeah, there's gonna be maybe four or five guys that go off off the front, but if I can reduce the deficit as much as possible, like if I can come out maybe f 30 seconds back, I'd be very happy. And then it's like the first 30k, pretty punchy. You're gonna have to really like I mean I think that's where you're gonna have to really be quite aggressive on the bike and Last year I made a really tactical error where I attached to the front group and I spent too long like chilled on the back of that group and then Robert Callan went past and blew the the group apart and then it was way too difficult for me to get through. So I think but I think this year's gonna be difficult different because there are there are more guys with more firepower. So I actually some part of me maybe doesn't expect to see the front. front of the race really on the bike unless I'm absolutely slapping it and having a really good day. but I also like I'm coming into this knowing that if I am on a good day, like I feel confident in saying fingers crossed confident in saying that I could run like a 68, 69 off the bike. And so I feel like that would be competitive if I can get to the front of the race by the end of the bike. Because I do think there will be guys that even though they're really good riders Yeah. They will just sit in and they will just wait until wait until the run. But I don't wanna I don't wanna race like that and I don't want to come off the bike with like those really Uber runners having not at least tried to make them work a little bit. What it becomes a pretty intense run race then if there's like say say the whole front of the race comes together and you're all kind of soft pedaling around, if you're then getting off the bike and it's like you, Fabian Craft, Priester, ⁓ Gabriel, there's there's probably a handful of guys who if they all have their or even a Mark Dubrick, for example, like there's a lot of guys who could who could potentially drop anywhere between like a one ⁓ eight and to a one eleven. ⁓ Mm-hmm. Yeah. So it could be pretty intense that running race. And I guess you you obviously back yourself on the run, but you also don't want to be backing yourself against like seven guys. You'd rather it like a head to head with someone else. Exactly. Cause it you know, it's one of those where like you could be in a great position and then you have a couple of kilometers that are a little bit off, suddenly you're back in like tenth place. And it's like, ⁓ shit, like I've lost I've lost all of that. So it's like it's yeah, it's doing ⁓ doing enough damage on the bike to other people, but not doing so much to yourself that you run like a spud. So we'll see. We'll see. Mm. Mm. Nice. No guys, I'm looking forward to it. ⁓ shame there's I don't think there's no live stream, is there? It's ⁓ it's gonna be watch by tracker. Watch by tracker. Nice, nice. Finn: you Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Don't think so. Yeah. She's a bit unfortunate, but but yeah, I mean should be yeah, should be a good day. And then we're all ⁓ we're all doing Swansea next weekend as well, aren't we? Yep. Are you not? Are you gonna come and watch or Finn: I... Nah, no no. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: What come on, come on, man. Finn: Yeah, I was traumatized after last year so I decided not to do it. we were actually heading down to, we having like a of a family get together something down in France. So that weekend, it was a weekend that suited so was like, ⁓ no, well no, I'm going be do Swansea or something. Yeah, ⁓ no! Anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that weekend works, stick with that. No, no, I would have... Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Mm-hmm. No. Nice. ⁓ no, that's a terrible idea. It's right, Finn, we can change it. No, no, no, don't do that. Don't do that. No, no. ⁓ ⁓ no, I can't do Swansea on it. Mm. Finn: No, I did think about Swansea again, but I just, yeah, I think it's one of those where if I'm being realistic with where I'm at, especially in my cycling at the moment, I think it's just, yeah, sort of just setting myself up for a ⁓ day ⁓ of punishment, which you sort of do it for convenience, it's right there. And ⁓ yeah, I've only got with, as I mentioned, my health issues last couple of years, I've only got so many races in me where I'm sort of comfortable to do as many. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Mm. ⁓ Yeah. Finn: races within a year like some covering in and around races that tend that sort of got me that very high intensity, you know, obviously the race and then the recovery after that sort of not getting that right was what sort of made me quite ill, I think. So one of the things so I've got to yeah, I to sort of handpick which ones I did want to do as it were and I felt yeah, I felt this this race this course would sort of potentially suit a bit better. I'm not entirely sure about that now, but I haven't started second for they were committed now. But no. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: No. It'd be good. Be good. I'm looking forward to seeing how you guys go. ⁓ yeah, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be trying Sunday Sunday morning, isn't it? Nah, you'll be good, mate. Finn: Hopefully that's when I've got it planned to go through. Yeah, the briefing's on Saturday, so I assume it's Sunday. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah, well I hope so. Yeah. Yeah, sweet as. Perfect, perfect. Yeah, cool. Cool. Right, well ⁓ yeah, anyone I'm gonna put this episode out. It'll be Friday when this episode is out, so if anyone's listened to the episode straight away, Harry and Finn will be racing on Sunday, check out the tracker, wish them luck and ⁓ yeah, cheers for cheers for the cool guys. I know it's quite late over in Sweden, so go get some rest and ⁓ best of luck Sunday. Cheers boys. Finn: Cheers man, see you soon.