Leon: lift off. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Hi guys and welcome back to the uncomfortable triathlon podcast. Yeah, here joined with my usual host, Harry Palmer. How you doing, mate? Harry: Right, yeah, not too bad, not too bad. Slowly getting out of this injury slump. It's pretty slow, but we're getting there. We're getting there. How are you, mate? Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah, not too bad, not too bad. we've got a little guest here today and Harry's done a lovely little intro for me to read. So I'm gonna read it verbatim for Harry. He said, Andy to introduce Leon as a smelly cheese eating Frenchman, best known for dunking his head in ice buckets, his aero position and coming second to him at 70.3 Swansea. Welcome Leon, how are doing? Leon: ⁓ Thanks guys, thanks for having me. You said I was a little guest. I'm almost six foot so I'm not sure that's fair. But yeah, I think that's bang on that intro. Although, you know, I shower about four times a day. Harry's lived with me, like he's spent too much time on camp with me to know that I don't smell. Yeah. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Hahaha Harry: You They shout way too many times, I don't understand it. Leon: Maybe it is for the cheeks. Yeah, that's the inconvenient thing about trials. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: You got a shout out after everything. You gotta shower at least after... Yeah. Harry: But no, but this is the weird thing is he will do a track session in the evening. He'll get home, he'll shower, he'll have dinner, and then he will have another shower before getting into bed. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: ⁓ you've gotta go to bed clean. Leon: Yeah, because I've had raclette, and just like a host of smelly cheese for dinner. That's why I did that. Harry: You ⁓ man, okay well let's crack things off first of all with yeah how's training going currently just overall how are you feeling it's obviously early season haven't raced yet but how are the sensations? Andrew Horsfall-Turner: ⁓ Love it Leon: Yeah, I'd say all good except I haven't trained since ⁓ Sunday because I picked up a little bit of a bug ⁓ as I traveled to Paris for the half marathon. So yeah, just got a bit of an illness, know, bunged up and everything. So just taking a few days off this week to... get back into some training. I mean I'm racing in Oceanside which is just over two weeks away from now. I'm not too worried yet, I mean if this carries on and I don't train for the next ten days then maybe I will start worrying a bit but it's also quite nice to just be back home. I've been pretty busy the last couple weeks. I went to the wind tunnel, the velodrome, went on camp in Lanzarote and did the half marathon in Paris and all in the space of two weeks so it's just been quite to come back home have the fire going and yeah just settle down for a bit get back into a little routine before I then go to the US for quite a while Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Nice. You just, you mentioned that like you're out in Paris doing the half marathon. Was that as a race or obviously with the Hoka guys were you? Leon: Yeah, um, the Hoka had this, uh, thing they called the PB protocol. So they're like the title sponsor of the half marathon. And they just wanted like a lot of Hoka presence at the front of the race, which I think they did achieve. If you have a look at the photos, it's mostly just Hoka singlets and, uh, Cielo X1 3.0. There you go. That's a good product placement for me. Uh, yeah, the new race shoes from Hoka. And so the idea was to accompany a bunch, I think about 50 or 55 athletes around Europe like not pro people but like what's it called like elite club elite or people who were going for some pretty fast time some of them were going like for 64 in the men some women around like 112 so some some rapid pacing and the idea was for some of the pro athletes to be there as like super pacers so jim walsley was there jan fredino was there alessia zarbo francesco poopy and for some reason me and we were all there to to act as pacers and my goal was to, well, I was there to pace for a 68 and I paced a 68 so that was was good. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Happy days. They'll keep you on for next year then. Leon: Well, yeah, hopefully. mean, winning something like Kona would help too. But if that doesn't work out, just to come for it be a pacer, that can work. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah, true, true. Harry: You Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah, Harry mentioned last week... Harry mentioned last week that you're doing payday. Harry: Yeah, mission accomplished, I guess. Leon: Yeah, I was really stressed because I mean I've got a photo I should send it to you I've got like 20 or 25 guys like right behind me all you know counting on me to do the pace and to get them to the finish line in the right time and yeah I was 68 obviously it's not all out for me but it's also not pedestrian and so I was a bit worried Also, race of the season, I wasn't sure exactly how it would go and I was a bit worried that I maybe wouldn't be able to be so in control that I could do it properly, but in the end it all worked out really nicely and they all got PBs, so was pretty happy with that. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: ⁓ It's probably quite a nice effort as well because obviously you mentioned there you got Oceanside in a couple of weeks and like 70.3 run pace is always that little bit slower than you can run a flat half anyway so it's probably nice to almost dial into a nice rhythm and an aspirational off the bike kind of pace maybe. Harry: That was pretty good. That is pretty good. Leon: Well, aspirational, I don't know, just target pace off the bike, that's the idea. We'll see. Obviously it's not like I've run anywhere near 68 off the bike, but the goal was to have a bit of a rehearsal and seeing how it did go, three weeks out from Oceanside. I'm like, actually, it is really doable and yeah, so obviously we'll see at the end of a 70.3, but the goal would very much be to aim for a 68 and yeah. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah Leon: had proper practice there at the weekend and uh it's yeah it's really good to kind of get your um i don't know yeah your your pacing and get an idea for how it will feel and just remember to keep it controlled at the start and it's still going to come in maybe bite a little at the end but yeah so so we'll see you know inside but that that's the goal i guess i've put it out there but i'm i'm quite confident that i can at least try and do it and I'm interested to see how it goes. Harry: Yeah, nice. Well, yeah, mean, diving in a bit deeper to that, you've changed quite a bit with your kind of like set up. do you mind talking a little bit about, you've obviously had a coaching change. So do you mind talking a little bit about that? Who you've kind of moved to and what the sort of big training changes have been, if there have been any, are you training similarly to... the way you have been or is there quite a dramatic change in what you're doing currently? Leon: Well, I don't know how many listeners you guys have got. Is it like 10? 50? Or is it like thousands? Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah, least 20, I reckon. Harry: Ha Just your bum. Leon: Okay. It's not like it's Andrew Horsfall-Turner: This is like break- breaking news. Leon: It's not unofficial or anything. I guess it's not like I've made like a big coming out of it. I've pretty much come like talking about Instagram and stuff like that. I've tried to, yeah, I've just become a bit what disin, what is it? Disengaged or I've taken a big step back from ⁓ whatever media and social media and like, I Obviously have lots of things that I'd like to announce and talk about but then Yeah, I just never get around to posting it or whatever and I just really wanted to refocus on myself and enjoying triathlon because I got to point last year where I Definitely wasn't enjoying triathlon and not that I want to be too negative or anything but yeah, burnt out last year and so I didn't need to make some changes and I guess I need to refocus on what the main thing is and the main thing is doing well in races, ⁓ at least from like a sponsor's point of view, it's like winning the biggest races. And so I guess my goal is to just focus on doing that and doing the work I can at home to do that. And part of that is being, I guess, happy and ⁓ enjoying going back to training. And so I'd been with Rob for five years and we had like... amazing success and I definitely wouldn't be the athlete I was without his help and the journey we've had together but also I feel like I'm in a different phase of my career I'm gonna be 30 this year which feels a bit daunting or a bit grown up and yeah just I guess maybe have a little bit of a change see what's new and I remember when I moved from France to the UK back in 2018 that gave me like such a fresh motivation and new energy to start from zero and make it work and so I've changed coach and I've now started with Ben Rizel who you might know of as he coaches ⁓ Patrick Langer, Jelle Ginz, Mika Knut, Hannah Wells ⁓ bunch of really good athletes and yeah it's been going really well I think the biggest thing was just starting fresh I've also started seeing like a would like sports psychologist to just like kind of change a bit my mindset because I think I've quite quite negative about a bunch of things and so yeah like the training itself as I mean at the end of the day you can't just train two hours a week and hope that you're gonna be competitive But it has been, it's changed. It was also really nice to kind of change our swim times. Like obviously I swim with Harry and Freddie and Connor. And so we've had a bit of a remap of our swim routine. Mark Threlfall has come in to help with coaching on the swim side and ⁓ overall, yeah, just kind of turned over a new page and ⁓ just having this fresh start has been really good to have some renewed energy and training and it's been going well so far. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Nice. think the thing that jumped out to me straight away was like just the almost the length of time you're with a coach. I think sometimes even if you had like some really good success, sometimes just that like fresh, you know, even if it's a fresh program, because I think like I always say it, there's, you know, a 60 minute run is a 60 minute run no matter which coach gives it to you, but it can be prescribed in a slightly different way and written in a slightly different way to even just give you a little bit more. Leon: Yeah. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: I don't know, motivation to get out and do that 60 minute run if that makes sense. Leon: Exactly and also maybe you know if you if you did your 60 minute run on a Monday This all sound probably maybe really weird, but just having it maybe on your Wednesday It all of a sudden it just like feels so different ⁓ And also like you end up you know if you've got a 60 minute loop you always maybe do it one way and Actually to just actively decide to do it the other way around. It's like a fresh loop ⁓ Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah, yeah. Harry: You Leon: So yeah, and sometimes you need to make a change like that to kind of snowball everything else into changing. ⁓ I think a good example is Pagacha, who ⁓ obviously was amazing at cycling, winning everything. And then he still changed coach and he went on to win by even bigger margins and all of that. And so yeah, just the renewal. mean, I wasn't going to move house. because you can change environments in that sense where you go somewhere else and look for a new training environment but we're very happy where we're living and ⁓ so yeah there's not that many other things that you can change and so yeah was nice to start fresh and yeah we'll see where it takes me Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Nice. Harry: Nice. And you kind of mentioned a little bit, I know you probably don't want to talk too much about it because it's quite personal, but the whole like sports psychology side of things is really interesting because it is obviously a really tough sport. It's a tough way of making a living. How have things been going with that? Has that kind of changed your perspective on things a little bit or your... I don't know, your outlook on things? Is there any snippet of information you can give us about the sports psychology side that has helped you in any way thus far? Leon: I think the biggest thing was just kind of like sitting down once a week and ⁓ like having a look at what I was doing and just taking the time and the space to take a step back and think about what I was doing, think about what I was thinking, the way I was like what my inner dialogue or inner monologue was. ⁓ Obviously, especially with Iron Man training, you spend a lot of time in your own head. And so, yeah, I just became conscious of the fact that ⁓ a lot of the stuff that maybe I was thinking or that I was saying to myself was pretty negative. And it's not that difficult to stop doing that, I guess. But to do that, you need to be aware of it. ⁓ so, yeah, having someone who's going to... He was guiding me in just having that sort of reflection and to be like, just try and have a look or try and notice when you're going down that route and all of that. And just don't necessarily change anything, but just notice it. And I felt like I noticed a lot of things ⁓ in my behavior or things that I thought and ⁓ that were maybe kind of like... dragging me down even more and so just being able to recognize those things and then slowly decide to like not engage with that or to engage with those things like differently ⁓ it's been yeah pretty helpful and mostly I think I just hadn't realized how year after year I'd kind of descended into like a bit more negative yeah inner monologue and so yeah it's nice to guess ⁓ snap out of it and try and have a different, yeah, say different things to myself if that makes sense. Harry: ⁓ moving on from ⁓ who's chatted about like your full coach, chatted about your coach. What about ⁓ swim coach? And obviously I'm a part of this. Like I swim you most of the time. So I kind of know the setup. But do you mind chatting to us a little bit about that? Like obviously. for people who don't know who Mark Threlfall is, maybe give him a bit of an intro why we've kind of included him into the swim setup and why those changes were made ⁓ and what kind of the, I guess the hope is based off of making those changes. Leon: Yes, so it's funny because obviously around Bath there seems to be like a really high concentration of professional triathletes or ex-professional triathletes or people... Connected to professional triathlon and so Mark Threlfall you might know him from GTN being like a longtime presenter on the YouTube channel He also used to be a professional triathlete ⁓ He was also a particularly good swimmer. I think you guys said he always made the Olympics or something like that ⁓ Harry: Yeah, I think he was a backstroker and he nearly, I mean, I could be chatting up my ass, but I'm pretty sure he nearly qualified for the Olympics in backstroke, but maybe fact check that because I might be chatting bollocks. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Was it? Fair play. I did not know that but I guess anyone who's anyone anyone who's race competitive you can say they almost made the Olympics Leon: Yeah, Andy, can you confirm or not? Well. Harry: That's true. ⁓ Leon: Ah yeah, fair enough. Like, well, he's a much better swimmer than we are. And he's also quite a good, um, is pedagogue the right word or is that just a French word? He's like quite a good teacher, if that makes sense. And, uh, the reality is like, I've never been taught how to swim. And so I guess it's kind of like a bit of a miracle that I do as I do. I know I I get branded as a Harry: Yeah. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah, coach, yeah, yeah. Harry: Okay, yeah, yeah. Leon: weak swimmer but like yes obviously I'm a weak swimmer because I swim like four minutes slower than Sam Laidlow in an Ironman but in the grand scheme of things it's still okay and the worst thing too is I tend to be a better pool swimmer than I then show in races and part of that I think is also going to be the mental aspect I think I do weird stuff when I get to racing and so yeah so marks come in just so we Harry: Yeah Leon: got like a bit of a specialist, you know, involved in the sense that he's a good swimmer, but he's also a really good triathlon swimmer. And ⁓ open water is always going to be a bit different to what people do ⁓ in the pool when they're like, you know, training for 200 or 800 meters, whatever it is. And ⁓ it's great to have like a structured like swim plan that's targeting like our own like specific weaknesses and the things that We need to work on specifically for the races coming up and ⁓ to have him on poolside multiple times a week and, you know, looking at the stroke, breaking it down. And it's probably something I should have done earlier to have someone like who's, know, probably knows their stuff. And I've kind of asked around every once in a while, but to have like a long-term committed relationship in that sense is probably what I needed and it's a slow process ⁓ but yeah I'm you know committed to it giving it like the time it probably needs and hoping we see some improvements I've yeah it's really frustrating because sometimes I feel like I'm on the right path and sometimes I'm like feel like I'm miles off and yeah I also heard somewhere that if you're inconsistent in that way it's probably because you're changing things to your stroke and changing is what I needed to do. So yeah, I just needed to try something and be accountable to someone in that sense. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah. I think that can be super important as well, just for the ability to improve in swimming is sometimes you just think that you're just gonna like, each day or each month, everything will feel faster, you'll get quicker, et cetera. But I think sometimes you need those shit sessions to realise that, actually I'm changing my stroke a little bit and I'm actively trying to improve. Therefore, sometimes you take a side step before you actually take that step forward. Leon: yet the moment i feel like i'm doing a lot of side stepping ⁓ but that the odd said where they can do click a bit better yet what will find out in a couple weeks time in oceanside ⁓ but as i said i think the big thing big part of his that told cuz i had such a negative ⁓ yet ⁓ yet negative outlook on what i was doing in swimming in Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah ⁓ Harry: you Leon: just being able to recognize that and just be a bit more positive or just accepting that the level I'm at is the level I'm at and ⁓ recognizing that I'm still good enough on the bike and the run that wherever I come out the swim I feel like I could still be relevant in the race even if it's maybe not making it easy for myself but to accept that whatever the outcome out of the swim then I can still make it work on the land and it doesn't mean that I'm not going to try hard in the swim but yeah. ⁓ Just trying to be bit more positive about everything else and so far it's been good. Harry: Mm. Yeah, nice man. I know I think you are like... Go on, sorry Andy. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: That's quite an interesting one as well. Caramate. No, I was just going to, I was going to almost use that to segue onto like another topic that I thought would be quite interesting. Cause obviously you mentioned there about, you know, actually trying to improve your swim, trying to close the gap, but then also being confident in your bike running ability. ⁓ obviously like this year we've now got like the 20 meter draft rule coming into place. And obviously we know that a big strength of yours is the bike, know, being very, very aero, being able to push some good power. Do you think that diminishes your enthusiasm towards swimming or how do you think that affects your kind of race tactics, I guess, moving forward? Leon: don't think it affects anything. you know, that race in Kona in 2024, I did all of it on my own. actually, in 2025 is pretty much the first time that I've ridden so much in groups. And yeah, it was odd. It was really weird. it's riding with like 10 other guys around you and trying to stick to 12 meters. It was... It's different to riding all on my own. so, no, I guess like it's only positive for me, the 20 meter rule. ⁓ And hopefully I can just, my goal is to just, you know, if there's a group, just sail past it and just do things on my own again and ⁓ not get stuck. Yeah, that's the idea. I tried a few times in Swansea and unfortunately my friend, training partner, Harry Palmer, he every time just... Harry: That's the dream. Leon: bridge the gap instead of like letting me go and then breaking away from the group and joining me you just like drag everyone back up but anyways yeah otherwise no it just I don't think it diminishes my ⁓ appetite for swim progress because I definitely still want to get better but maybe it gives me a bit of reassurance or a bit more safety Harry: I'm sorry. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Hehehehe Harry: Next time, okay, next time. ⁓ Leon: from further on in the race if the swim doesn't go as well as I'd like it to. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah. Okay. Harry: Yeah, now that makes sense. And so on that, like coming into this season, it's gonna be slightly different for you because in previous seasons, you've already like kind of stamped your ticket to the world champs. So does that affect anything this year, like your approach to racing this year, or is it very much still, you've got a similar kind of approach, you obviously wanna get your Kona slot, does that? Does that affect anything? Does that make anything different? Or is it just same old like good races, obviously get your slot and ride off into the sunset. Leon: But yeah, I am a bit more stressed about it. It's true, like when you go into, you know, the off season and Christmas and all of that, knowing that you're already qualified for next year's World Champs, it's really nice. It's just like, yeah, it is so soothing in the sense that things can go wrong at the start of the season and it doesn't matter because you are qualified for the World Champs. But if I look at 2025, obviously I was qualified for Kona, for Nice, and it's not like... Harry: Mm. Leon: I did well in Nice, so yeah, for this season, obviously I'm a bit worried, well, worried, no, I don't know if that's the word, but I will be going to Texas and I think everyone knows Texas is gonna be absolutely stacked. But yeah, I just gotta back myself and know that there's six slots available, like a few people will already be qualified anyways, and so, yeah, I'm back to where I want to be fighting for wins and podiums on... ⁓ at the pro series races and so yeah you just got to do them and back yourself and you know if I come 15th in Texas then there'll be more maybe more problems to think about than just well I haven't got the slot for Kona and so yeah I can't I think I'm not sure who said it but like getting like a soft slot is it worth it you know you know I'm Harry: Mm. Leon: I'm going to Kona with the hope of fighting at the very front of the race and so yeah, to do that you gotta think that you can also do it at other races and so yes it means that you have to deliver throughout the year but yeah, that's the hope is that I can be good enough throughout the year and ⁓ fight at the top of the races, yeah, whether it's Texas or another pro series and ⁓ rather than try and go slot hunting which Harry: Yeah. Leon: Obviously if the start of the season doesn't go well and you know it's July and I still haven't got a slot then maybe I start panicking a little bit. But I am qualified for 70.3 Worlds so that's at least one World Champs can go to. Hopefully do the start of the season and it goes well and if it doesn't then we might rethink a little later on. But for the moment I'm just focused on doing well in Texas and getting the ticket there. Harry: Nice. Yeah, no, mate, that sounds good. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: I think that's what, I think Rudy Von Berg was the person who said that. think one year before, like, Nice, I think he was talking about qualification and I think he said, ⁓ if I don't qualify to get a slot, then I don't deserve to be, like, contending for the world championship because, like, I guess, like, especially with, like, someone like your caliber, Leon, it's like, you you want to be fighting for that podium anyway. So it's like, you know, you kind of back yourself, I guess, from that perspective a little bit. Harry: Mmm. Leon: Yeah, but I'm not going to pretend like I'm not a bit worried. And it's like, obviously it's hard. It's hard having had like difficulties in like last year. But then I think about it in Texas, I think it came eighth or ninth. And I mean, that was a pretty poor performance. Well, considering, you know, I just went there and I think if anything, 2025 showed to me that I could still do decent like times at an Ironman. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah Leon: despite not much training or just a really bad like prep and a really bad like mental ⁓ like yeah mindset and everything in the race and so I'm like well actually if I'm firing on all cylinders and like ready to to fight it out then I should at least be within the slots but obviously the ambitions are a lot higher than that Harry: Yeah, nice. That makes sense, man. And I've got a bit of a weird question. So this is kind of a strange one, but it'd be interesting to get your thoughts. And maybe you thought about it more at the end of last year because you were admittedly in a pretty rough spot. I know we chatted briefly about things just in a joking manner, but obviously being a professional athlete. you don't retire at a normal age. I mean, bloody hell, I hope I'm still not doing this sport at 65 years old. Or professionally, anyway. And so, do you think about an exit strategy? I hope for you, as your friend, you've got another 10 plus successful years in the sport, but do you ever think about what's like... after the sport, do you hope that you make enough money during your professional career that you then after the sport you just, you know, it's sunset, it's beaches, it's chilling or do you, like have you considered like what's after this if I retire at let's say it's 40 for example, like what do you envision yourself doing? Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah Leon: Yeah, so I do hope I've got another what like 12, 13 years like, you know, camp was camp still like 42. Uh, I think Jan retired at 42, something like that. Patrick, I think is like 39 or 40 and obviously still aiming to be good. So yeah, the hope is to be able to keep pushing, but obviously I'd only do that if I'm still like enjoying it and still like doing well in races and financially it makes sense. so I think in that sense, like, yeah, ideally like financially it's a bit more secure that I do have some freedom after I retire. And then I know we've, we've joked her and I about like doing like a wood logging business and it's not really a joke. It's like, it's genuinely something that I would like to do, but I'm also aware that It might not be the biggest like moneymaker and so it might be necessary. Yeah. So I would love to be able to Harry: It's not the biggest earner, but being CEO of Leon's premium hardwood. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Hahaha Leon: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what we want. And so the idea is like, the dream scenario is to have enough like saved up that whatever I do next can be a bit more of a like a what like a hobby job. Yeah, like a passion thing where like obviously, to make some money. And whether that's like being yeah, selling logs or being like an estate manager or Harry: passion project kind of thing. Yeah. Leon: being a dog trainer or something like that, or it's like, I'm doing up old apartments and selling them off. I'm not really sure, but I would love to do something like that to have that sort of freedom to choose. ⁓ if I, well, I was going to say, so like, if I had to retire tomorrow, then it would be a bit of a different conversation. Cause I have like that financial freedom that Harry: Yeah. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: What did you your masters in Leon? Okay. Harry: Pornstar. Leon: Let's edit that out. ⁓ I did a master's in chemical engineering, so I could, I guess, try and find a job in that sector, but I don't know if I'm ready to go and work in that sort of, you know, after the freedom of being your own boss and being outside most of the time and all of that. I don't know if I'd be able to do it. And so, yeah. Harry: Only fans pay well, I hear. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Hehehehehe Harry: Yeah. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah. Leon: trying not to really think about what i have to do if you know if i had to retire tomorrow ⁓ at the moment just focusing on not doing that i've got good contracts with my current sponsors who believe in me at least like medium term and so yeah the hope is i can i can do that and you know if i have to think about something else then i'm sure i can make something up and whether it's ⁓ actually something i would pretty much like to do Harry: Yeah. Leon: that might be what I do tomorrow if I needed to it's sell crepes like you know pancakes pancakes have a little yeah have a little food so I can sell pancakes and hot chocolates and I think that would be ⁓ Harry: You've talked about this before! Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Nice. I tell you what, in the winter in the UK that's a moneymaker that is. Leon: I think so, and it's Harry: out the back of your Range Rover autobiography. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Hahaha Leon: Yeah, have a little trailer, that would be amazing. ⁓ that would be so good. Yeah. So I think that's maybe the first thing I would consider doing if I had to retire. Or I just, we sell the house and we just buy like a cab in to somewhere remote and have some chicken and pull him off the land like Kevin Costner in Yellowsburg. Harry: How good would that be? ⁓ Nice. Live off the land. Yeah, nice. Get a cowboy hat. That is true. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: nice that's a big bit of land though in yellowstone Leon: Yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah They do have some but they do have the chopper and everything so that's probably beyond my wallet Harry: You never know. See you in the next 12 years. Leon: Yeah, a few pro series, a few Konas. Yeah. We'll see. Harry: No. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: So with this season now, it's all eyes on Kona. But obviously pro series is ⁓ going to be part of that season as well. I guess, how does T100 fit into your season plan or long-term plan? is T100 something you're not really that interested in at your current point in your career? Or where are you at with that sort of thing? Leon: T what? Andrew Horsfall-Turner: T100. Leon: ⁓ I'll have to look it up. ⁓ I'm quite focused on Ironman at the moment. I really loved that for a few hundred. I had the blast. They paid well. We had fun with the other athletes at the hotels and the logistical support was amazing. ⁓ Harry: Hahahaha Andrew Horsfall-Turner: You Harry: You Leon: Like their vision is like grand. It's like, it's a really good vision. if it worked out, it would be really cool. just, yeah, I, I really wanted it to work. And I'm just like, I think every year more and more people are kind of like, not sure about it. And I don't want to, you know, I wish them the best because obviously if they pull it off, then it's really good for everyone. But I think I showed in my, my racing in 2024 that. I wasn't doing so well in that format. so, yeah, I mean, I'd love to go back and if only I could do well in those races, I'd love to. maybe, you know, maybe, yeah, with a new coach and everything we see and maybe, you know, my swim does get better this year in the sense that I can then get a wild card for a race and do it. at the moment, I feel like it's probably a bit beyond reach. And, ⁓ not sure, like the dates are always like at the moment I wouldn't take the risk of traveling out to like Australia to race a T 100. Cause it would disrupt like the bigger plan of doing well in the pro series and ultimately Kona. But if T 100 London came back on and I was at home and it was like, do you want a wild card? Then I would very seriously consider it cause. Harry: Mm. Yeah. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah. Leon: It is cool. It is like, to be honest, like looking back racing in Singapore and Dubai and yeah, it was pretty special and I'm like really grateful for that opportunity in 2024 and ⁓ yeah, I just got to accept that that's not where my strengths lie and ⁓ after doing Kona in 2024, I'm like fully focused on doing well there again. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah, that makes sense. So obviously it's all in on Pro Series and Kona and you kind of hinted to your first couple of races being Oceanside and Texas. Have you mapped out the rest of the season or are you kind of waiting for those two races to see how you progress? Harry: Yeah, nice. Leon: I do have a bit of a glide path I guess, the optimal season I guess would be Oceanside in Texas and get the slot in Texas so that's sorted. And then I would really love to do Elsinore, 70.3 Elsinore, because I'd love to go up to Denmark and see what it's like and I think it's sometime like mid-June or early June so you get a bit of rest after Texas, get to be home for a bit and then you get back to a point where you maybe want to be racing and traveling again and then Swansea obviously that being just you know two hours away it's yeah it's so convenient and it was like a really fun course and it would be a shame not to try to go win it for once rather than come second to Harry although if we came one and two again like I wouldn't complain it was pretty cool Harry: You Leon: ⁓ So Swansea and ⁓ Lake Placid, I really enjoyed Lake Placid. We were there too, Andy, together. It's like a it's like a cool place for a race and ⁓ yeah, I just really enjoyed it and I... Yeah. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah, it was a good one. Yeah, I was super tempted. I was tempted as well, but I'm gonna have to go back next year, I think. Leon: Yeah you are. Or not this year. Yeah. Okay. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah, no, I'm not going this year. I was tempted though, but yeah, I'm gonna I already for next year. I'm thinking yeah, 27 Leon: Yeah, and I'm actually coaching ⁓ like a childhood friend who's doing his first Ironman. He signed up to Lake Placid and so I think it be really cool to go do the race and then support him for his first race too. That'd be, yeah. So I'd really like to go back to Lake Placid and then focus on Kona and the NIS 70.3 Worlds. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Nice. Harry: Sweet eyes, man. Sweet eyes. Obviously being like a longer course athlete, there is a degree of that. The psychology side of things, it does really like, interests me and I think it interests other people listening, like what makes you kind of click and get through it. We chatted to, couple of podcasts ago, we chatted to Rosie Wild and it was really, really interesting getting her take on like the psychology of, you know, when... When you're at the back end of an Ironman, you got 10K to go, your legs are screaming at you, your heart just wants you to stop, your lungs feel like they're bleeding. You can't keep going. What do you do? What do you say stuff to yourself? Do you envision something? Like what is it that gets you through that really rough patch that you can then keep going and get to the finish line? Leon: Well, you know what? think I kind of missed that. It's been, I'd say Kona 2024 is the last time I had that, you know, ability to dig so deep despite everything telling you to not do it. And I've raced a fair few, I think I've done five Ironman since then and I've not been in a... like a mindset or like a physical place where I could then push on. It felt like last year, my, I'd been, I'd like run out of resilience and yeah, I'd always thought like my last 10K in an Ironman was probably one of my strengths. I typically have like a bit of a low at like 25K and by the time I get to 30, I'm like, I need to like... Harry: Mm-hmm. Leon: get back on it. Yeah, I don't know what keeps me going. I don't know, trying to win the race typically or trying to get a podium. Harry: thinking about the prize money and the rain-driver. Leon: Yeah, it's like... and... Yeah, I don't know, I... I'm not really sure, but I just tend to like count to 30 and like count up to 30 and then when I get to 30 I start counting up again and uh... every... and every eight times ever... Yeah, every eight times 30 seconds. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Is Harry: Fair enough. That's fucking weird. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Do you think... Do you think that as an athlete you're quite good? Sorry, was just gonna say, yeah, just as an athlete, do you think you're quite good at when you're in a racing situation? Because Karen and Harry said it there, where's the prize money, et cetera. Do you find that when you're in that dynamic position where you're fighting for a win, a podium, or even fifth place is a lot more money than eighth place, et cetera, do you find it a lot more easy to push yourself in those situations? ⁓ Leon: Sorry, you go. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Because guess when you haven't had the races go to plan or to the level you want them to, do you just think almost like, what's the point? Or where's your mentality there? Leon: I definitely when you're fighting for like a top spot, it's easier to go hard than when you're not. I think a good example of that was in Roth in 2024. I kind of did the whole race on my own. Harry: Mm. Leon: And I think I was on the run at like kilometer 20 or 25, whatever it was, where I was like, yeah, it was tough. And I think I was in like seventh position or sixth or seventh position. I was like starting to convince myself that it was like Roth. mean, obviously Roth is a big race, but it's a big race when you like. with it will podium and i was starting to convince myself that i fighting hard for six places roth was it worth it was i don't know what the world champs on my world champs fighting for six places definitely worth it uh... and so Yeah, I went through that phase of being like, ⁓ I'm not going to try as hard. And then I think I got to kilometer 39 or something like that where there was an out and back section. And I realized that was actually a lot, lot closer to the podium than I thought. And that kind of gave me so much more oomph to try really hard again and try and chase for that podium. So I think it's, yeah, being in the race if that makes sense. Whether the race is know the win or the podium or the top 10 out of world champs like I guess everyone kind of decides what their race is and ⁓ yeah that really is a big motivation to to push on and ⁓ but then I'm thinking back to like Swansea last year where I was in second chasing Harry down and I think obviously I wanted to catch Harry but I was also in a place mentally and physically where I was like not that hungry to win, if that makes sense. I was like, you convince yourself maybe that you're trying as hard as you can, but yeah, was also like, I was in a place where every time things got a bit difficult last year, I would always create some sort of excuse in my head to like... Harry: Mm-hmm. Leon: not Pashon and I think that's why by the end of the year I knew I was really cooked and ⁓ just yeah I just like ran out of all kind of mental energy to Pashon. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: think the body and the mind... Harry: I mean, we have... Go on, sorry mate. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: No, you go, go, go. Harry: Well, I was just gonna say that I know, Leon, we've chatted about this as a group and it's, I think it is true. There's only so many times in a year that you can fully bury yourself and like go to the absolute well and it kind of needs to be on a, obviously on an important day, on race day, on one that matters. if you, yeah, if you do it too much. Leon: has to be worth it. Harry: you know, for example, like in training or on a day that doesn't necessarily matter, it means that on the days that do matter, you're like, I really want to go to that place, but you almost like physically and mentally just can't do it. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Just can't, yeah. Leon: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so all about this winter was trying to replenish that stock of being able to hurt yourself and like enjoy doing it and chasing that. And so, yeah, that's I guess one thing I'm looking forward to this year is like actually like that hunger to go and chase and push yourself. And when everything is telling you to stop like to have that satisfaction of being like, no, I'm pushing through and I'm going to keep going. Whereas I did get to a point where I was like, any little obstacle, I would just see it as an excuse valid enough to, to make me stop. And, ⁓ yeah, it'll be good to like push on. Harry: Yeah. Nice, mate. That sounds... I mean, yeah. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah. No, the only thing I was going to, the only thing I was going to add to that was just like, just the, the kind of connection there that you had between like the physical and the mental side of things, which is like, you know, especially if you felt like you were kind of like overcooked a little bit last year. ⁓ There's that mental side of it and the physical side of it and I guess both need to be relatively like... You need to be physically ready to push but also the head needs to be ready to push as well otherwise if they're not both aligned there's nothing to get out of your body as a... Leon: No, and if anything the mental freshness is more important than the physical one because, yeah, you can definitely keep pushing. If your mind wants it, then you can definitely push on. Whereas if, like even if you're physically exhausted. So, yeah, it's all about restoring those batteries and getting back to like absolutely wanting it. And it's been nice to get back to a place where I've been like... wanting to like train more wanting to go out and race and like yeah just excited to to feel the hurt and the burn and all that. Harry: Nice, nice, nice, nice. Yeah, I mean, appreciate you coming on, mate. We don't want to keep you for much longer because I reckon Florrie's probably eating all your dinner by now. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: You got, I was gonna say you got dinner on the go. Leon: I don't know She's making cookies. So like I'm really looking forward to that because I've ⁓ been away from home for so for so long It's only been two weeks, but it's been like so busy. And so it's just nice and Yeah, hopefully a bit of training tomorrow, although I've probably like sounded really You know bugged up all all all podcasts ⁓ Harry: you ⁓ nice. Yeah. I mean you and Andy sound great. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah, well, I've managed to pick up another cold from my kids, so yeah. Nightmare. Leon: Amazing. Harry: you Leon: Yeah, that's another thing to deal with, isn't it? When you've got kids, it's... yeah. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah, I was saying to Harry literally, he's like, your kid, like my 10 month old coffin in my face is like, just literally crossed my fingers and hope that I don't get it. It's almost impossible to avoid. Harry: so yeah. Hey. Leon: Yeah, I've been on so many flights and metros and everything the last couple of weeks that I was like, it's bound to happen. Yeah. You just got to take it in your stride and yeah, the best thing I can do is be somewhat positive about it just be like, ⁓ well, at least I can catch up on Drive to Survive or whatever it is and ⁓ catch up on my crochet blanket and ⁓ yeah, book some more flights and travel logistics for the US. Harry: It's just bound to happen, isn't it? Yeah. You Leon: and ⁓ just enjoy napping. Harry: Yeah. Well, sweet eyes mate, appreciate it. well, I look forward to in 12 years time, work for Leon's premium hardwood. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Love it mate. Leon: That's all I could do. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Yeah, we're excited to watch you this season as well. Leon: Yeah, I like the sound of that. You working for me. ⁓ Harry: No, no, no, but I, we split the profits 50-50. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: I will, ⁓ Leon: There'll be no profits. It's a challenge. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: I'll make sure I buy myself a log burner and I'll make sure I hit you guys up. Harry: Yeah, you're our first customer. ⁓ Leon: Yeah, amazing. Yeah, I'm really excited about that chapter. yeah, that'll be really cool. But I also need, I think I got to a place where I was just like, I just didn't want, obviously I didn't want to train anymore and all I wanted to do was go and chop wood. Whereas now I'm back to a place where I'm like, yeah, I like, I'm happy to train and also I'll be happy to chop some wood in off season and, ⁓ and when I retire, yeah. Harry: Yeah. Yeah, nice. Leon: That's cool. So yeah. So I might see you tomorrow, Harry. ⁓ no, you're swimming early. Harry: Well, I now know that Connor's not swimming early, so maybe I won't. So, let me know... Okay, that sounds quite nice. I might join you. Leon: So I need a little while in, and I might go in at 10.30. Yeah, so I'll have to check what my HPE says. Harry: Okay. All right, let's do it. Andrew Horsfall-Turner: Right, have a good one guys. Catch you later, cheers Leon. Leon: Thanks for having me. Good evening. Bye bye. Harry: Cheers mate for coming on. Bye bye bye.