Upgradeheroes: Woohoo! Paybackhunter: Dear friends, it's time again. Next Level Points and Travel with Annie from Upgrade Heroes and me, Harun, the Payback Hunter. Look at the voices up to now. Nice that it's... That's true, that's true. But we wanted to chat and voice messages. That was always the reason. We'll that a few times here, Upgradeheroes: Points and travel. It's that you're back. It's that we hear again. We haven't heard each other Paybackhunter: And the second episode was great again. Thank you for your feedbacks. We will all the comments you have posted in peace. And also mention your wishes, which you in episodes 1 and 2. We will in the next episodes. But Annie, let's start away, don't waste Because the last episode... Upgradeheroes: Yeah. Yeah? Yeah, yeah, let's go, let's go. Paybackhunter: The last episode, if I remember correctly, my teaser at end. When you with all the payback, my game, whatever, you had a course booked with which you very dissatisfied. It would be interesting to know, not where you we don't to okay, but just me in general, now just... Upgradeheroes: you Paybackhunter: Just feel free, you me story. How did you even get to mine and eventually apparently to such coaching? ganz lange her. Upgradeheroes: So do I. I was actually... That's my other account, with which I started before Upgrade Heroes, is Annie Makes Money. I... I actually from colleagues. They always called me that. Annie Makes Money. Because had a category store... Paybackhunter: Hmm? Guys, awesome name, Ani makes money. So you to get Awesome. Upgradeheroes: ⁓ the tip of week and I always had financial tips and so I came to the name Animix Money and because I actually invest and at the stock exchange and so on and so was on a Discord chat and one of the others wrote hey do you that already you have to the podcast mega interesting Paybackhunter: Okay. Cool. Upgradeheroes: also for us, to save and it's about flying with points and absolutely recommendable and then I really thought okay, I'll listen and that was really a podcast, I didn't just it once, not five times, probably ten times and more. I it today on my playlist and Paybackhunter: Okay. But Anni, what you're about is Discord channel for those who don't know It's a community of various groups or chats where you can about stocks, stock whatever. Because we already community groups, but that's how you can imagine Okay, and then you've of these podcast episodes. Upgradeheroes: Yeah. Exactly, and then I this podcast episode and that was the husband of a travel influencer and he then just told how he these travels, so also how they came and how he everything and then it with with AmEx, with Upgrades, with Payback, with Meilen, with... there were suddenly completely new terms in this podcast and then I really thought I didn't rewind it, I again from the myself notes because I said, you have to see if that's true, but if he tells it, it has to be true. And so I actually got to that I started on TikTok, Instagram, on Google and so on, information and to read to research it and so I got that. Paybackhunter: Mm-hmm. Upgradeheroes: And in ⁓ the end I up Instagram and started following the first influencers. The topic was often, and it is again there is a new ⁓ Amex campaign and suddenly the traffic on this channel not only follow, but take my link and with my link you get these points and then you business class. yes, I was as stupid. And then I went home after I the podcast three times on the drive and then said at I really this Amex Platinum and you have to the podcast too. yes, are usually more like Paybackhunter: Ay, ay, ay. you Upgradeheroes: Lawyers who always say, do it. I think the women are... I think I the feeling, bit more refined for... ...maybe saving. I don't want say that saving, but for... I don't know. Yes, for Instagram and accounts and stuff. And then I said, no, no, I have to do And then I this... and every bigger influencer, whether he only clothes or not, suddenly an ad for the Amex Platinum. There was a real hype. And so I came to the conclusion that I this Amex Platinum from with his friendship link, which of course for him, he real and you have to that very clearly. is nice thing because the advertiser gets these points immediately. As soon as the application is done, the advertiser his points on his Amex account. This is displayed I think you get faster than you an email or any information that someone your link. And then I this insanely expensive Paybackhunter: That's right. Upgradeheroes: incredibly hyped credit card and didn't how to start I then faked myself in and activated all kinds of the apps and so on. Paybackhunter: So you credit card via the link of an influencer and you to of it in the after-sales. That means there is no support before, there is no support during the application, there is no support after the application, i.e. the credit card application. Upgradeheroes: Yeah. Nine. Nine. Nine. nothing at all. Zero. Well, that's... Well, done quite bit, right? Paybackhunter: It's pretty tough. That's why we're here. I have the credit card and the platinum. I don't to them. I all the advantages. We'll take easy and this episode or another. But it's exactly as you said. The advertiser gets the points And the Amex Platinum, correct me, I think in the last action there was a minimum turnover. of 10.000€ within 6 months. if the anime sends me their link to the platinum, I for the platinum they immediately get 85.000 membership rewards. Membership rewards points. And, uhm, exactly. That's important, guys. Upgradeheroes: Yeah. Yes, 85,000 membership rewards points and you will them only after the minimum turnover. Paybackhunter: I to 10.000€ within 6 months with this credit card and then my 85.000 membership rewards. Annie has nothing to do anymore, she just the link and as an advertising link she a thank you from Amex in this way. But I have to see how I can It might be easier because he has high expenses or maybe Upgradeheroes: Six months, exactly. Yep. Paybackhunter: maybe also on different track. But I think the biggest part that would in this direction all, is having problems ⁓ with credit cards within six months to 10,000 euros. Upgradeheroes: I can tell you, my minimum income was 6000€ in 6 months. And I thought, well, I knew I was on holiday, so everything safe. But it was really like I thought, that's pretty sporty. You have to get used if you've with a credit card. Paybackhunter: Hmm. Upgradeheroes: And yeah. Paybackhunter: Oh I had 13.000 when I my credit card. 13.000 € within 6 months. that was there. Then Amex reduced to 10.000 € But as I said, it's not supposed to Amex advertising podcast here. But the original idea was that you credit card attention, you it on the fast one without worrying it. Upgradeheroes: Stimmt. Ja. Night. Paybackhunter: you didn't know what the card can and you had huge costs on the deck. Because the card is not cheap. Upgradeheroes: Yes, that's right. it was actually back then, I could call two or three influencers who applied for who never anything towards credit cards or anything at They that today. ⁓ one of the fitness influencers and his wife too. But as I they only in the business class and you could fly I was hired or rather I was hired but I wasn't helped. And that's something where I... Paybackhunter: Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. Upgradeheroes: where I actually, in retrospect, I also a coaching, because on another website, which also claimed that today you a certain percentage on my coaching and then it was also a link to a video that I watch and it was not badly produced, I have to say, so you could today. No, no, no. Paybackhunter: So no live coaching, no access to a portal where you various videos or explain videos. Everyone a coach or influencer who his own strategies on how to bring to his followers. And you weren't happy Or the quality was good? Upgradeheroes: Yep. No, were I already was no added value. And that was, I think I paid 349 euros back I so annoyed that I much money to basically only information about a card. Paybackhunter: shadow. Upgradeheroes: Neither about offers that you can use, nor about what is possible with the card. It was really just, you have these membership rewards points and you to these transfer partners. You can the flights with but you shown how it what transfer rates, how do you these points over there. You then to somewhere register at the many flight programs. really let them stand. They are hey I have 349€ on my account and I think two or three days later the account was dead. nothing happened. And these things where I said to that's not Why do everyone for but why doesn't anyone really explain, coach and take in hand and a community or a contact where you can exchange. I paid Of course, these always nice videos that you can watch and Everything is nice. But it's just that I thought, if I such an account, I want it differently. Paybackhunter: Take Yeah. It was a good approach from you that you basically empty money and said that you spent it didn't you advantage or you further. Maybe it's I don't know, but your first master class, which in Leipzig in March, also 349 euros to match the number. Upgradeheroes: Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Paybackhunter: To summarize the support we just talked It's a live coaching, it's the first one. We'll see how it the future. It's basically your baby that you've your legs. I'm a coach. Heiko von Reich durch Spahn is a coach. Upgradeheroes: Hmm. coach. Ja, Heiko von Reich durch Sparen. Ja. Paybackhunter: You have your share, where you will about travel, credit cards and so on. That's the plan. Upgradeheroes: Genau. It's about traveling, credit cards, fixed costs, yes, exactly. Paybackhunter: I just to say that the added value of such a masterclass that you with me, compared to something that you have where you no added value just access to video portal where I have to say, I personally am not fan of it at Take your video portals, it can be qualitatively good, I don't want to argue that. I personally miss this... I have someone in of me or in my coaching or live coaching in Leipzig where we can okay, you have it like have to it here, you have to do that. These community meetings that we already on the the seventh was in Stuttgart. Every time, there are strangers for for you too. It's not like my buddy and my family is there, but it's people who me and say, cool, Harun is in the city and I don't a long way to exchange on the these points with strangers, people you have to imagine, with strangers, but they actually not strangers at because everyone has the same topic, everyone wants payback, miles, fixed costs, we have already mathematically, credit cards, it's a topic and it's always fun to exchange so I just want to it, I I'm not the one who videos and upload them somewhere and sell a link where everyone can watch the videos. I personally enjoy I personally enjoy this. This... how do you say... the direct exchange with the... Upgradeheroes: this direct exchange and direct feedback. ⁓ Paybackhunter: My coaching is also online and I have my participants there where we can exchange ideas, into the community group, and them further. Support before the application for a credit card, during the application and also in follow-up. If there any followers of mine, raise your hand if you this support from me. Of you have to mention, Anni, for you and for me it is worth if our links important. and also to support as thank you for the work we have ⁓ Upgradeheroes: ganz klar. I have to say, there are always feedbacks under Reels and stuff that. Oh, another link for online coaching or whatever. Oh, back in everything was free. You always have to differentiate. What kind information I don't want to talk about There are great websites where you can a great job and a lot of But you must not forget that what we do here, we take our time. You work full-time, I work full-time. I have a side job, you also your coach's with your kiddies. And what we do, we do next. Paybackhunter: Correct. Upgradeheroes: I was at our last community meeting what as an influencer. And I said, nothing. Believe me, I can live Paybackhunter: Hahaha to. Upgradeheroes: I think a widespread belief. Of course it's nice to with our coachings, but I can say that this a zero-calculation, because this podcast platform costs money. Everyone likes to, and we already that in podcast we should go to Apple, we should to Podimo. That too costs money. So you need an extra account, we need a platform where we record where we edit we need equipment and also when we to our community meetings, we always something with we book it. How often do we have, at the end, when everyone was still there on the bill, no idea, you know, Frankfurt was completely extra. Paybackhunter: Yes, Frankfurt, Munich, so ⁓ yes. Upgradeheroes: Exactly. And what do we then? We the what's left. Paybackhunter: Guys, also that... Anni, let's just I'll myself, but all of you are not written down or planned, we're about but that's exactly what we're doing here and we to you participate. We organize these community meetings and they are a lot of We like there, we like ideas. It's also time for to I have the family and kids, a partner on your side. We don't I was back and in evening, but you all weekend and concentrate on the meeting, organization beforehand, with the restaurant and so on. It's already with a of effort. We with bit a merch, a thank you that people come, you put something in, I put something in, the people are they can something with them as memory for the evening and so on and so on. it happens, our meetings, at so far, who knows what the future will like, always free. That means you just said, I'm in and we already had, to explain the orga a separate group and all Instagram accounts that be there, the participants, We up group and shared various information there. We then on. And so you find the place and here you the menu in advance, etc. But it's free and people are only to for what they eat. No more, no less. I drink my beer, I pay for my beer. I order my pizza, I pay for my pizza. The whole information exchange is completely for free. We're just there and exchange with you. But it's like we're the first ones who there and the last ones who go. Which means that the waiter says, yes, guys, I still some free food They can least take the basement or the store. And if someone forgets his second, third, fifth beer and his food, I can't imagine that someone that on purpose. But people, that you just heard, we again. Because we also say, okay, on, let it be good. One time Annie paid, the other time I paid. Christian also took in it. We'll talk about Christian in another round. Upgradeheroes: Nine. Paybackhunter: The founder of the ECM app, so we him We like that, but that's not necessary. You can of a things. Upgradeheroes: A lot happens in the background, which people often don't see. It's often not made quickly in post. Some things come spontaneously. Of course can certain posts. But sometimes is some info that you should it today. It's often the too. I can't always ... Paybackhunter: Yeah. Good on. Upgradeheroes: or I can't during work... ⁓ Paybackhunter: Yeah, Upgradeheroes: my phone in my hand and post all the time. No employer And that's something There's also heart rate in there. And a lot of time. And you have a your wife and my partner, because they us and for this thing. It's definitely like Paybackhunter: Come on. Definitive. Upgradeheroes: ⁓ So even now, when we're sitting you could also sit on the couch and a nice Netflix evening. But no, now you're here with another woman and you're calling me. That's how Paybackhunter: Yeah. And that's done. That's true too. But we too. As you can love, it's fun us to entertain you, we exchange ideas, we laugh and then it like work or like being We just the time as best us. I've this few times in my stories. I also generate with my coaching income, of but that's not my main source I'm happy about my main job. I'm main job that I do. I'm happy to work Upgradeheroes: Yeah. Paybackhunter: And it's just as important because my work environment knows that I'm an influencer. And I want to as you just explained, that I post while working, answer all questions during working hours, do this, do that, etc. Then my employer will also say, hey, it won't work where's your focus, what's more important So I try to lot information before after my working hours. Upgradeheroes: Yep. Paybackhunter: or to answer always a bit of delays. You, Anni, I already have questions, really, it's no joke, I'm standing at DM right can I this coupon with this product? And then I this question eight hours later and that time 22 messages have by a follower, because that, oh, you don't time and you answer that. Yes, so there are various followers who impatient, who are of just about to the cash register and want to have an answer from Upgradeheroes: Really? You only two followers. Paybackhunter: Believe me, I have the entire bandwidth and the more more complicated it It's okay, but there's a of understanding. People think we're this full time. We live from what you just saw. When people ask, influencer, you have so many followers, what do you in a month? I sell coachings, but my coachings are not online portals with videos. I sit down and work it out. I manage a community that for me. I'm happy about that and thankful. But it's time, as you just said, extreme. And I try... Upgradeheroes: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Also, Mia hat Paybackhunter: I want my own opinion. I tried to in I get from the financial sector. Microphone, headphones. not just billow headphones, but reasonable ones, so we something of Studio Pro, I don't Everything that belongs equipment and so on. I know. I here... Upgradeheroes: Yep. Paybackhunter: The ring light is not for nothing. has to be there. Our Instagram account, Google account, everything that belongs to it, would not have there if I up these Payback Hunter coachings. If I'm just an influencer, just posting, I don't too much equipment. But because I want to enable more with these coachings and them added value, need equipment and that costs again. Because then I the circle and say, Oh, but your course is so expensive. You guys don't even what fixed costs I have. And people forget one small point. Even a payment via PayPal. With the payment you can already collect With a point-free credit card on PayPal. If you a coaching course for But even there, PayPal says... Here is my hand, please it to me. paypal in x euro and then not 100 % everything with me. The father state also business registration, you have income. Yes, here, please. Or forget too, people, and I that's fair. I would like to mention We share our links, we are happy that people, followers, our links and give back But also here, also like to You on other influencers out here. have to control that. You have to tell them what products you different companies as so you an advertising platform and make You have to... You your links and income and from that you can calculate what you have to pay That's not the thing. The state is happy. With every sold coaching from me, the state money. I have less money in my pocket and in your pocket And yes, to this here, unfortunately life is not as easy as people think. It's also pretty cool when 10 people coaching and he's doing really cool stuff. No. Upgradeheroes: Yes, and you must not forget, I sometimes write with people and go into the discussion and sometimes it. Paybackhunter: Hmm? Upgradeheroes: And recently wrote a comment, that everything for free and now you for money for And I wrote to and said, hey, I your comment. Let's have a little bit a... How do you on And then I said, you, with these coachings... First all, platform we use do them costs money. ⁓ Paybackhunter: Yeah Upgradeheroes: It starts there. The platform where you have register. You can't just go this. You need a link. And via this link you to this online coaching. This platform costs money. Paypal costs, withdraws fees. And so on and so on. And then I said, and then I sit down in my free time, Sunday evening or mostly on the weekend, sometimes under the week, I sit down and explain that live. and can me questions, can come to the community afterwards, you get these specials and you get up-dated and so on. And then said, and if I see that you are a flight instructor, then I really be interested if your hours are worth as little as mine now. No more Paybackhunter: It's difficult. It's really difficult to that And Anni, it's like that in the end, of like you did, you spend money for a coaching, you expect that you more information, that you keep building, that you keep coming. There is so information on different websites. People google and ask for chetchi.pt and whatever, no problem. ⁓ But if you want to compact knowledge from experts who this a long time, who long time themselves and then finally a community, yes definitely, definitely, and have community on the where you questions and exchange So you have your own community, I have my own community group and then there an added value again. Upgradeheroes: and Paybackhunter: And my community, and I want mention was Focus Payback when I started. And the more people who the more professionals, who have more business first class flyers than me, but who really wanted to part of Payback Hunters community and who part my coaching team. They know that before I answer a question, three of have... Upgradeheroes: Mm-hmm. Paybackhunter: Others the question. And mean, you have a community that works, experienced professionals are there. And that's really worth We created something here that works where there is Otherwise, this community wouldn't work And you have to realistic. As I said, this is our second pillar. And we moderate prices. Even the Masterclass we mentioned in Leipzig, 349 euros. What you in Tell me. As a host, what can you in the masterclass in Leipzig, on March 14th, for the people who want Yes, experience Upgradeheroes: Hahaha Get out. I bought the professional in the payback Paybackhunter: You mean me, guys? ⁓ Upgradeheroes: ⁓ You will your expertise around Payback. Then comes Heiko from Reichto Sparen. will talk about cashback, how you can savings He will talk about how you cash back on So that too is part of the coaching. For me it's about the many flight programs, for me it's about the credit cards, about the fixed costs. We only one day and if you think about we start at 10am and 16.30, 17am. Paybackhunter: Mm. Upgradeheroes: As I I have the many care programs, the travel, the fixed costs, the credit cards, also the US credit cards, which are currently going at the market. And there is a joint lunch. The food is in it, the drinks are in it. And we also an evening dinner. We sit together Of course, no one tied down. Of course, can home if you want to. But is also a joint dinner. And we are to the official coaching day. Paybackhunter: Very important, yes. Upgradeheroes: Where do you that? And that for 349 euros? Paybackhunter: It's a great price. I think the early bird price was around December the of 299,- It's the very first masterclass. You to check the resonance. It's in Leipzig. It's not central Germany. You have to check how I there. But the... Right. Upgradeheroes: 299 even. Yep. Yep. But also there we have a hotel. with Marriott, we and I have Christian again, founder of the ECM app, who still knows Those who have been this game time, they know the ECM app, it was incredibly helpful because there were the coupons in it and you could then together in a shopping cart and then just at the cash register. Paybackhunter: You Upgradeheroes: Unfortunately, are no longer for reasons. Maybe we can Christian as a podcast partner. Paybackhunter: Let's it. Very good idea. Upgradeheroes: Exciting, he put in a lot of he a great price, so you get there even if you over our affiliate link, also a cheaper room with breakfast and extra Marriott, so these points that you can at Miles & More and that is also important. Exactly and yes. Paybackhunter: very well through the you could say. We start on Friday, so for those are already eat together Friday. So we exchange, basically you can say, community meetings in Leipzig, but not in public, but only for the participants of the masterclass in particular. That's we don't to the place where we meet in the because we're not in the hotel, we eat out. Upgradeheroes: Yeah. Yep. Paybackhunter: On Saturday we are from breakfast to dinner and beyond. All together it's not only these three coaching parts or sections, but it's much more. Snacks, drinks, lunch, dinner included. Upgradeheroes: Yeah. Yeah. Paybackhunter: The drinks are after dinner. We discussed The room costs, the room is our part, because not everyone thinks they are doing the coal with It's not the case, people, it here. We just to into a live coaching, which we haven't done I offer online coachings. Annie Online Cold Shicks. And that's something completely different And we want to that to the market. That was Anni's idea with Upgrade Heroes to start So if anyone in Leipzig wants to there, please contact Anni or me Upgradeheroes: And have say, in the end it's like a small family meeting. And that's always the nice thing about our community meetings. You don't to so excited. I think you've never seen maybe even Instagram accounts, they come into our community group and then you little back forth. But you immediately have a wire to each other and you talk and talk and talk and it's really as if you were meeting So that sounds like, if you tell that, they probably think they're crazy, but it really like And I can only say, my partner was already a community meeting and he said, that's really crazy. He never thought it would go down And also this... Paybackhunter: Yep. Upgradeheroes: These synergies that are immediately there, but I always that we are all crazy I always like you my crazy ones. Because it's just really ... Can only imagine who is as disturbed. Paybackhunter: Yep. That's It's actually like But we see the added value where others might not closely. But it's okay. We've said that don't to convince But if someone interested in starting, tell us at the right address. Anni, I want to... Upgradeheroes: The nice thing is, we know how nice it business class and I to tell I a short feedback today from a coaching participant who Paybackhunter: Yeah. Gerne, gerne. Upgradeheroes: wrote me, hey, greetings from vacation. It wasn't for the back forth flight, but they really to to the and fly to glass back home. And that's nice that in the end you get least one business class flight rewarded. And I said, believe me. Paybackhunter: ⁓ yeah. Upgradeheroes: You will be more focused on collecting payback because you to business class So not only one route, but that's the nice thing. It's just an experience. It's different flying, it's a different travel experience. Paybackhunter: Yep. Upgradeheroes: And if you had once, you don't anything else. That's just the And most thing is really to there. The time is actually the longest. Because you don't know what to But after that you will all register that you are no longer in the eco. Paybackhunter: Yeah. And it's also like the Leipzig story, as we said, costs 349 euros. And if you only my coaching now, my online coaching book, that costs only 199 euros. Andi, does your coaching Upgradeheroes: 109 Paybackhunter: So, if we this we are at 308€. Just that you my Payback Hunter Coaching and access to my community. Arnie's Coaching and access to the community. You have not eaten yet, you not drunk, you have not the time on top because our coachings are not endless, so the online coachings, but also limited to about 2-3 hours, depending on how we get or the questions and explanations. Upgradeheroes: Yep. Paybackhunter: So with 349 euros you actually have the high course with his knowledge, which is not so prized. So it is an unbeatable price, those who really want to not advertise, but who misses is really to blame. Upgradeheroes: And you have to say, and I'm really about there are also who already have who have business class. So they are actually not newcomers. That's really something where I say, wow, awesome, we have to get We have to them worth Paybackhunter: Often it's even a hobby I've before, are people my community who more experience when it comes to traveling and cows. I and they are also there at meetings. And for them it become a hobby. I have fun spending for the hobby. Whether I to the football stadium or cigarettes and that's why I spend And then can like to 340 euros for a whole Saturday or maybe even for the weekend plus overnight stay and take an extra with you different coaches and above all, must not forget that. Mega mega important. committee meeting the exchange between the individuals. It's not like we're on stage doing a committee meeting and everyone asks a question and I one after the other. We sit together at the table, we eat together, drink together, we rotate, we're influencers. We rotate a little bit, then I there for half an hour, then I over there so that everyone has and can And everyone listens and of course to the questions that he brought. When we were in Stuttgart for second time, Annie was mega cool. There was a couple of She even a writing block. Upgradeheroes: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Paybackhunter: As if she school or somewhere else. And I said I think that's great. I have to write I can't remember Everything she tells me. But that's the right approach. Come prepared. And not only feel strange, but also in, listen, write And of she had completely different questions because she was relatively new in game. But I honestly don't the name ready right but if she... And she said, Harun, I have an Amex Gold. And my first question was, why do the Amex Gold? Does it make sense for you or your family? And I was like, ⁓ We'll back you just finished, because someone just said, great, take action, if you membership rewards. But you the payback game yet, or the mine game. Mine or ours, otherwise correct me, variant is first, payback focus, then goes on to Myzmore, then goes on to membership rewards, and then goes on to US credit cards. One chapter after the other. can't... So... Andi, if you it differently, you're welcome to correct it. So... One after the other. If you... So, level after level. If you've done it, understood it, collected then focus the next topic and then the rest comes on its Upgradeheroes: Yes. No, no, no, no. Yes, I'm completely with you. It is... And that was what happened to I all sides, by piece. And in the end you don't focus. Because you pick something here, then you from there. And I always focus on payback first. Payback is a great basis to get in this whole collection game, because it's so easy to to MySendMore. That really makes 80-90 % of the points. That's really true. And if many people don't understand it, vouchers are a game changer. Paybackhunter: Yep. There are some tips and tricks to many points. ⁓ It's to just any credit card. That's how we started the episode. So don't the mistake that Anni did and just spent because someone just said, focus on these topics. So we are also influencers in and it's not in our interest that you make but we want to clarify well. Ask questions. I answer every question. Anni answers every question. Upgradeheroes: No, I thought... So. Paybackhunter: It can be delayed, because we with other things. But we answer your questions. And then can with us, when it comes to credit cards, travel and miles. We definitely anyone down. Upgradeheroes: I would say that was a great closing word. We are now at a good three quarters of I hope the podcast episode was for you. Today there less gossip. Last time we had a lot of... Paybackhunter: Thank you very It wasn't planned that we would but the timing was quite good. Upgradeheroes: stories told but today there were some really hard facts and I'm looking to the next recording and yes, very warm greetings to you. Feel free in the comments what you liked, what you wish from us, what was maybe ⁓ not so good and yes, I'm forward to the next episode and say thank Harun. Paybackhunter: I thank you Anni. See next time, ciao! Upgradeheroes: See next time! ⁓ Tschüss!