Mike: Welcome to another edition of The Side Show. ⁓ Mark is going to be taking the helm on the side we're talking about today. So Mark, why don't you tell everyone what we're gonna be talking about? Mark Bloom: ⁓ thanks, Mike. This is going to be one that I think that we're both going to have some fun with. I always love when we get to an album or a side of an album from a band that we saw when they were touring for this album back in the day, right? ⁓ The band we're going to be talking about today is Rush. The album is Permanent Waves. And you may recall that we saw them ⁓ Rush on their permanent waves tour in Green Bay. believe 38 Special opened up for them. you ⁓ know, so it's always interesting going to some of these albums where, you know, where we were actually able to see some of the actual touring concerts when the bands were promoting the albums. Mike: That was, I definitely recall that concert ⁓ and I've still got the ticket stub ⁓ somewhere ⁓ actually. ⁓ that ⁓ was a good time, I think, to see ⁓ Rush. ⁓ And yeah, and that was before 38 Special became as big as they did. Mark Bloom: Yeah. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Mike: ⁓ I can't remember whether Wild Eye Southern Boys I think was the name of the album. ⁓ they were actually a fairly, because we were familiar with them. were known, they weren't as popular as they would become later. ⁓ But it was a good time to see. Mark Bloom: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mike: Rush, I mean we've already done a podcast a ⁓ little while back about Rush 2112 where I think the band first kind of came into its own. But this was in some ways kind of ⁓ a step forward from the type of material that they'd been doing. Mark Bloom: Yep. Mike: know, Farewell to Kings and Hemispheres, the albums that came out in between 2112 and this one. ⁓ This ⁓ was when they started to become a more radio-friendly band. You'd hear Rush on AOR stations, but here's where they started to become a bona fide popular band ⁓ with this album. That's certainly the way that I remember it from back then. Mark Bloom: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mike: you Mark Bloom: Sure, and I think you're absolutely right. mean, they'd been around for a while. mean, they actually formed, we saw, this is 1980 was when Permanent Waves came out, but they formed, they were a Toronto based band. formed in 1968. We actually, think on our last podcast about Rush talked quite a bit about their background and some of which I'd encourage everybody to go back and listen to that if you haven't. If you haven't heard it, 2112 is an outstanding album. But they got started and Neil Peart, who was their drummer, actually didn't join them until after their first album. They had a self-titled debut album, Rush. But the Alex Lifeson, Geddy Lee, and Neil Peart trio that would become Rush was actually after they'd already kind of kicked off their their career and they really settled in in the early part of their career in what you know is now kind of generically referred to as progressive rock. And again instead of re going over some of the background about rush I just wanted to talk for a little bit about progressive progressive rock because it's I think it's a everybody kind of has their own their own definition to it and some of the different time periods and one was progressive and one was not progressive. guess it doesn't really matter if you like music. If you like music, you should listen to what you enjoy. I look at progressive rock and I, you know, certainly the record companies and to some extent audiences, money paying audiences, kind of had a coloring book that they wanted filled in by musicians. And people that that played progressive rock didn't necessarily like to draw with their crayons inside the lines. And they felt that those were a little limiting, especially those lines that were drawn by the record companies. So if we can go back to some of the origins of rock and roll, and let's focus on popular rock and roll, pop music, pop rock, which came from some of the a little bit more cookie cutter type of songs. Even your best hard rockin' songs and that type of thing, I'm not talking about the style, but the structure where you've got verse, chorus, verse, chorus, instrumental verse, chorus, chorus, song's done. Okay, you know, you've got a lot of very good music that follows that structure. You've got a time frame that say, let's have this thing be between Mike: you Mark Bloom: You know, two minutes and 50 seconds and three minutes and 30 seconds. So it plays well on the on ⁓ the radio. Let's have some lyrics about love and apple pie and, you know, having a good time with the guys or that type of thing. Maybe some maybe some heartbreak with a girl break up if you want to have a have a sad song. But, you know. Complex storytelling and complicated lyrics. Let's kind of stay away from stay away from those things Well, you had a lot of people that played music that were constantly thinking to themselves Why do we have to be drawn in by these you know by these lines it within the coloring book? I've got other musical ideas in my head. There's sounds above and beyond a electric guitar a bass guitar and drums that I would like to bring into this music. Maybe they're classical instruments, maybe they're electronics, some of the newer musical instruments that are available. There's all this stuff that's out there. And what we seem to be asked to perform is this very small portion of this infinite world of music. So I think the first thing when we talk about progressive music is These tend to be artists, these tend to be musician songwriters that didn't like to color within the lines. Mike: The simplest way to try and sum up progressive rock, and that's a whole podcast to really talk about the evolution of progressive rock. most simply was most rock music derived from early rock and roll, you're Elvis, Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, Chuck Berry kind of thing. Mark Bloom: ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Mike: ⁓ or blues, and then also kind of country and folk music were sort of in the background there. that's, know, one of those primarily earlier rock and roll and blues. Mark Bloom: Sure. Mike: But some country aspects and some folk aspects kind of found their way in. And what progressive rock was, was looking to other forms of music for inspiration. And the first, really the earliest progressive bands, it was derived from symphonic, from classical music. I mean, a lot of people will point to the Moody Blues, Knights in White Satin. Mark Bloom: Mm-hmm. Yep. Mike: as one of the earlier progressive songs from, I believe it was 1967. And King Crimson, whose first album was in 1969, a lot of classical type influences in the way that they played their music, although they were definitely rock and roll. I mean, they were rock. I wouldn't call them rock and roll. They were rock. Mark Bloom: Mm-hmm. Yep. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Not a lot of rolling. Yeah. Mike: But also you listen to their portions of King Crimson's first album that sounds very much like jazz. And there were bands ⁓ that were more like, where they took their more inspiration from jazz. ⁓ The ⁓ early Grateful Dead. Mark Bloom: Yeah. Yeah. Mike: sounds a lot and the dead are not progressive, I would not call it progressive music, but they're very much like jazz. ⁓ And some, there was also some folk ⁓ elements that were in there, but that was kind of more with sort of a medieval fairy tale type folk, kind of the Rumpelstiltskin kind of Tolkien. Mark Bloom: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. Mike: Tolkien-like quality to some stuff. ⁓ And so it's just what progressive music was where they were just kind of breaking out of that rock and roll and blues and music that drew its inspiration from other sources. Mark Bloom: Yeah. Mike: other musical sources outside of the earlier rock and roll and blues type musical structures and whatnot. ⁓ But it was still ⁓ rock, there rock bands. basically that were playing this stuff. ⁓ It was at a louder volume. It was sort of sometimes looking to stick it to the man. But it would ⁓ be just coming from just a circuit. It was on a different wavelength. Mark Bloom: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, well, and I do think, although I would 100 % agree with you, that I wouldn't label a band like The Grateful Dead as a progressive ⁓ band, but I think that a lot of the bands that were stretching their wings in the 60s were seeding a lot of the elements of what would become progressive rock. The Beatles, they were starting to regularly bring in strings and other types of ⁓ music to the tracks on their albums. And you had the notion of now we're not going to be too concerned about radio length songs and these types of things. And other influences, mean, you know, the Beatles bringing in influence from India and Eastern music into some of their songs and that type of thing. But other bands were doing that at the same time, especially bands that had already received a certain amount of success. So they kind of had the weight to do this with their record companies. mean, there was stuff that the Beach Boys were doing and that the Doors were doing. And then you had bands that were truly saying, I'm not going to do that normal shit, you know, the mothers of invention and these types of things that just out of the gate said, we have no interest in doing ⁓ this, you know, conventional types of music. ⁓ and bands that might have been considered more psychedelic based, but Pink Floyd, certainly for sure. So you had a lot of these bands in the 60s that were kind of spreading their wings and starting to bring some of these other styles and other techniques into their music. I really think that King Crimson was kind of a leverage point where it's just like, there's actually ⁓ something that we can classify as progressive. It's going to be this kind of music that it's a little more freeform. It's got some of these different styles of music in. The structures of the song are not necessarily what people have heard before. And I think a big thing was this change in the idea that music can be listened to. It doesn't necessarily have to be danced to. And that is a big ⁓ difference from a lot of music that when you think about, especially back in the day when albums were supported by a live tour, so you'd have these concerts and people were dancing and they like, mean, it just get up and dance was a big thing of is a song good? Are people going to want to dance to it? And this idea that, not all music is necessarily to be danced to. Some you can just listen to it and enjoy it. And I think that that when you open that up, created all these other types of options. But I look at bands like King Crimson as being some of the first ones that were actually, no, this is how we want to produce and put music out. And then other bands started to follow that. You talked about there's some bands that, like a lot of these progressive bands seem to need to have this kind of know, Canterbury English courtyard type feel to it in some of their songs, which kind of came and went ⁓ with a lot of that. But there's actually an early branch of progressive rock known as the Canterbury scene of people that were trying to bust out of popular music and other types of bands that were trying to rebel against the music industry because they were so constricting. Now, let's be clear. The record industry did have some reasons for putting some of those lines in place. I mean, there's a realistic reason why a song has to be a certain length to be played on the radio. And quite frankly, there's a lot of, especially some of these early progressive bands. King Crimson had made this an art form. before then when it's just, ⁓ we're going to bring in this weird improvisational jazz style into an otherwise pop song. I mean, the shit is hard to listen to if you listen to some of the early progressive bands ⁓ in what they were doing. I mean, if you listen to ⁓ like Henry Crowe, band from England that was considered a very early big push trying to break out of some of these music structures, If you listen to it, I mean, it's a lot of just improvisational type jazz. And if that is the music you're into, more power to ⁓ you. You'll find a lot of it to me is it's hard to get through an entire album with some of these just truly early progressives. ⁓ But that, again, I see that right about 1970. And I see King Crimson was just a good example. I'm sure there was other bands. that we're really starting to hone. I mean, we, I think we've talked a little bit about Ken Crimson on this show. And I think it's a great example of a band that was truly progressive, right? In how they're being defined. And that began, that type of freedom that there was some commercial success to be found in this progressive music opened up a couple doors. And I mean, I think that you see there is some Stevie Wonder music. that you'd have to consider as progressive. Very lengthy songs, bringing in world music into some of these that, you know, there was a lot of bands that were taking advantage of this notion that, look, we can expand a little bit. The record companies will give them a little bit of leeway, especially if they've had some success before to have these kind of non-typical song structures, styles, and these types of things brought in. And I think that that first half of the 70s, When you take a look at the progressive, you had a lot of really good music that was coming out at that particular time and was supported by the record companies because it had some, certainly a certain amount of commercial success that went Mike: Well, the, you know, like after King Crimson, you got like Emerson, Lake and Palmer. And while they, that band moved a little bit closer sometimes to sort of commercial accessibility, you know, a lot of Emerson, Lake and Palmer now is almost hard to listen to. A lot of it's good, but a lot of it, when they stretch out can be. Mark Bloom: Yeah. Mike: a little tedious, but bands in the early 70s, like Jethro Tull, yes, the Genesis when Peter Gabriel was still a member of Genesis. mean, ⁓ where there was things were starting to move towards, they were using some of these elements that we've been talking about regarding what constitutes most broadly speaking, ⁓ progressive rock. Mark Bloom: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mike: but kind of made it a little bit more accessible. I mean, it was always hard to figure out what Peter Gabriel was singing about when he was with Genesis. And like the Genesis album, Selling England by the Pound is really an excellent album. I would say the high point of the original incarnation of that band before they became, because after Peter Gabriel left, they slowly became more just a straight pop band. Mark Bloom: Mm-hmm. Hahaha! Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mike: But yes, mean, if you get on the internet, what are the 10 best progressive rock albums? Yes, Close to the Edge will make the top of a lot of those lists. And Roundabout. Mark Bloom: Yep, yep. Mike: by Yes would be characterized as one of the first really successful progressive rock songs, you because the edited version of that was a single and got a lot of radio airplay. And one of the things that started happening slowly in the first part of the 70s was this combining these progressive techniques. Mark Bloom: Mm-hmm. Mike: with music that was going to be appealing to a conventional rock audience to some extent. Mark Bloom: Yes. Yeah, I would agree. that then kind of created other little offshoots. mean, you listen to someone like Robert Fripp, for example, from King Crimson, who pointed out, well, once everybody's doing it, it's not progressive anymore. Right. mean, then it's just rock music. think that he clearly took a little pride and they felt they were doing something different. Right? ⁓ so there's kind of a downside to achieving success and getting a little bit more mainstream in ⁓ your techniques. ⁓ I think that as you hit the second half of the 70s, that was a hard time for progressive music. You had the punk movement that that started to arise in the mid to late 70s. one of the things about, well, a couple of things about progressive rock. First thing was is that most of the people that were really exploring progressive rock were damn good musicians. mean, Robert Fripp was awfully good at playing the guitar. mean, the members of Rush were excellent musicians. I mean, these are virtuosos in the industry. that were doing this. And one of the big outcomes from the punk era was you don't need to know how to play instruments to be successful. Look at these guys. In fact, there was a lot of bands that became bands because they went to a punk rock concert and they realized, hey, anybody can do this. Let's get out there and have some fun. And this kind of Mike: you Mark Bloom: different notions took over of what would be, you know, what is needed to have music, successful music. And at the same time, the record companies were consolidating, ⁓ much more profit-driven. The idea of giving a band some rope to experiment with different things was really coming to an end. And they became much more insistent on those formulaic cartoon lines. that we were talking about earlier to keep record contracts going. And we really kind of saw a contraction of the growth and success of some of the bands that you had mentioned just a little bit earlier. Mike: And ⁓ Rush, as we start to transition towards talking about Rush specifically, when Rush first started out, and their first album, before Neil Peart joined, ⁓ I think they were more, they were like a Led Zeppelin style hard rock band. And I don't think that they really weren't progressive. Mark Bloom: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mike: ⁓ But like as you mentioned, as you got into the mid and then later into the 70s, music, was a lot of things going on. In the United States, one band that achieved some level of notoriety was Kansas. And when you listen to, and their music on the one hand is relatively straightforward rock and roll, but some of the structures are just a little more ornate and or complex requiring a little bit more ⁓ precision from the players ⁓ and just added a flavor that was different from just good old hard rock, your Leonard Skinner, Led Zeppelin, the Who, whatever. ⁓ And I think Rush, certainly by the time of 2112, Mark Bloom: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mike: and probably before. I I think that Fly By Night and Corressive Steel had some progressive elements to the way they were structuring their music. But ⁓ it was a time where ⁓ the music that was progressive and was being cranked out at that time, it was more of a combination of ⁓ progressive structures. Mark Bloom: Yeah. Mike: and just playing hard rock than the classic, stuff that was inspired by classical music or more straight jazz in a rock context. And that's where the progressive label starts to come home to roost in terms of the music that Rush was making and the evolution of them as a band. Mark Bloom: Yeah. I would 100 % agree. And I think that that is all in line with this kind of timeline that we've been talking about where, you know, as Rush was cranking out albums through the 70s, right, mid 70s, late 70s, they too started to, you know, experience what a number of other bands were. mean, those progressive bands that you were mentioning from the early 70s, Look, Genesis, they were around in the 80s. Yes, they were around in the 80s. Kansas was around in the 80s. ELO was around. They all changed. They all either had significant changes in direction or they had changes in personnel. They either went into the kind of the arena rock type area or they much more pop rock type things. And as we mentioned early on, Rush also kind of settled as we get to permanent waves here, much more in the lines, in the big scheme of things, but they brought with them these aspects of what they'd gone through on these more progressive albums. And then you end up, as a lot of bands do, that are able to bring together the best of this, the best of that, let's bring it together, let's have the talent to be able to pull that off. And you end up with what I think was just a great album. I like both sides of this album, but I certainly... certainly think Side One is the best one to work with. But Rush found themselves going through the same transformation as a lot of these other bands that had been very popular. But like I say, the late 70s just seemed to put a fork into some of the progression of progressive music. Mike: And some of the excesses of progressive music at the beginning of the 70s probably best left there. ⁓ Mark Bloom: Yeah, I mean, some of this shit is not that good. will, you you go deep into progressive music. mean, it's, you can find some weird shit, that's for sure. Mike: There's some stretches on Emerson, and Palmer albums where you feel like, I skip to the next track kind of thing? ⁓ there was a, well, I and I don't want to crap on Emerson, Lake and Palmer, but they released a Triple Live album, probably inspired by Yes, who released Yes songs. Mark Bloom: Open the pod bay doors hell. Mm-hmm. Mike: And the name of the album was Welcome Back My Friends to the Show That Never Ends. And a number of reviewers referred to that as the aptly titled, you know. But by keeping the better... Mark Bloom: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mike: keeping the best aspects of progressive rock and combining it with relatively straightforward rock music, I think was a better formula for longer lasting radio accessibility and ultimate popularity, which Rush was able to achieve on this album, and particularly their next album after this one, Moving Pictures, by that point, were a big... Mark Bloom: ⁓ yeah. Mike: They'd achieve mass popularity, really. Mark Bloom: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I do think that, you know, that this album, here's what we're going to be talking about, this was that first step just ⁓ a appeal that included radio play, ⁓ you know, which 2112 is a classic great album, still ⁓ respected. It's the of music, the type of songs that didn't get the radio play. This one did. ⁓ This is the cover. ⁓ This is a great album cover. There's a lot going on. This is the type of thing you'd spend a lot of time staring at between the disaster type stuff going on in the background there. Quite a bit of time as a teenage boy spent on this lady's panty here ⁓ and the other things that are going on. Neat cover with the lettering and stuff. This is the back pictures of members of the band. This guy actually bought, this is a West German ⁓ pressing of this. I'm assuming the US copy was about the same. And then on the liner notes, you've got the lyrics ⁓ and lyrics on one side and some more pictures of the guys ⁓ in the band. really kind of just I've always loved this album cover. ⁓ Plenty of entertainment while you're listening to ⁓ the music. So that's the album cover. Now Let's get into the music. Track one, Spirit of Radio. ⁓ you know, the way that starts ⁓ ⁓ know, that's the way when you put on the album back in 1980, that you got that just straight out of the gate. The first thought is, lot of notes here. ⁓ ⁓ know, what you have is just a really upbeat, quick-paced way to dive into this song. ⁓ ⁓ Rush had a way of almost like a two-tiered riff system. They seem to have an intro into the song that had ⁓ a very particular song to it as we heard here. Then they fell into a ⁓ separate guitar riff that they move back and forth with in the song. We're going to hear that on a couple of the songs on this particular side. I love this song. The vocals are very clear. You you begin the day with a friendly voice, a companion, unobtrusive. This is about somebody flipping on the radio in the morning and music just makes your day. It's better than a cup of coffee. It's better than, you know, heading off to a good job. You've got this thing that's always there that you can hear and anybody that's ever ever loved music. Anybody that's ever had a song on the radio make their ride to or from work a little bit better can really identify with where they come coming from to start this song. Mike: The lyrics are relatively straightforward. There's more content there than just as ⁓ you move through the song, the lyrical content starts to get into more than just ⁓ the pleasure of being able to flip on the radio in the car. But the beginning of this song really is a good illustration ⁓ instrumentally before the vocals even start of taking progressive rock elements and combining them Mark Bloom: ⁓ yeah. Mm-hmm. Mike: with more straightforward hard rock. you know, cause the beginning you've got kind of those repeating, you know, lead notes. ⁓ And then, you know, there's this sort of, then suddenly things get kind of turned upside down and boom, boom, boom. And the, you know, the drums and the bass and the structure just kind of, kind of becomes a little bit out of whack for a little bit. And then falls into line pretty quickly. Mark Bloom: Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mike: for that rhythm, know, that, and so you've got, you've basically got three different instrumental sections that come pretty quickly one right after the other before the vocals even start. ⁓ And so you're, as you say, it starts right off and takes off. Mark Bloom: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And you get, so you brought up an interesting point that you actually have these three different kind of musical elements that, which a sign of progressive music, you don't just have a, you know, one, two, three, four, and then move into your song. There's going to be some changes here just to get us started in the song. But as the lyrics start flowing, you have gotten into a very accessible groove, right, that allows you to stay with the song. That's one of the complaints that people have about some of the really over-the-top progressive music is just within a song, you're all over the place and you can never really settle into it. That is not the case here. And you do settle into ⁓ this particular song and And I'd agree with you. I focus on the beginning lyrics. They get into a number of other concepts around ⁓ music and the music industry. There are some hits that maybe if it wasn't for all the compromises that you had to make to be making the money that comes from the music industry, we could have some better music. They bring that up in the lyrics. So it gets to be a little bit more than that. ⁓ But it's still the notion of the radio, whether it be this thing, I think you can envision the driving along in a car, but at home or the stereo, that ability to produce music, the spirit that comes from that ability to have and listen to music is a big part of our lives. It certainly was back in the day. Mike: Now, and they manage to kind of keep things lighthearted despite, there is definitely commentary in the lyrics about ⁓ what kind of music makes it on the radio and what kinds don't. And it's not necessarily talking about styles of music, but just the, and, but. ⁓ Mark Bloom: Yeah. Yeah. Mike: towards the end where they kind of get into a of a lighthearted mode and for the words of the prophets were written on the studio walls. Now, know, that derives from Simon and Garfunkel, the sounds of silence. The words of the prophets were written on the subway wall. Okay, so they caught that. But, you know, if you get on the internet and look at the lyrics, it's not prophet like P-R-O. Mark Bloom: Yeah. Yeah. Mike: P-H-E-T, not one of the prophets from the Bible. It's prophets as in financial prophets. Prophets with an F-I and not a P-H-E. ⁓ I don't know about on. ⁓ Mark Bloom: It's not someone who's telling the future. Yep. Yep. Yes. And if you look at the lighter notes, yes, it's profits as in dollars. And I do think a number of clear snubs in there to what is driving a lot of what we hear on the radio, right? Which is certainly critique of the industry. let's, tell you what, what I'd like to do is, before we get too much into discussing the end of the song, I'd like to play a little bit. Mike: Yeah, so... Mark Bloom: of it, we've got some ⁓ guitar and drums that we're going to hear ⁓ as we get towards the end of the song. And we'll hear that little thing that Mike brought up as the song comes to an end. But let's listen to a clip from the, you know, more towards the end of the song and then we'll wrap up our conversation. Mike: All right. Mark Bloom: So music is ⁓ By that, I mean there's a lot going on. You've got some changes and shifts that ⁓ do occur. ⁓ think that ⁓ just have mastered a way to do that, to have those types of changes ⁓ the song, but to keep it flowing. ⁓ doesn't abruptly stop and then suddenly you have a new type of ⁓ that you could almost break it into multiple parts, which is, you which you hear in a lot of different types of music. This continues to flow as one piece of work, but there's a lot going on. And for the fact that this is three guys that are there playing music, it's absolutely a lot that's going on and keeps you pretty engaged through the end of the song. Mike: The, and I think the end of this song, it really is just a great example of what we've been talking about, of the fact that you take progressive elements and combine it with more straight ahead rock and roll, get some, there's some pretty good stuff that can come from that approach. And, ⁓ you know, after they, know, the concert, Mark Bloom: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mike: And then there's lead guitar and at the end of the song this piano comes in. And it's not the sort of Rick Wakeman style progressive piano. It's rock and roll piano. Yeah, exactly. But it fits well into this song. ⁓ Which is about commercial Mark Bloom: Mm-hmm. It's Jerry Lee Lewis piano. That da da da da da. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mike: music that's designed to get on the radio. ⁓ So it's a good song. I can remember when it was brand new, liking it. I thought it was more accessible than a lot of Rush music. And really ⁓ the Rush music that I was familiar with. Mark Bloom: Yeah. Yeah. Mike: was 2112 era stuff. And then the stuff ⁓ from Hemisphere and ⁓ Farewell to Kings that was on the radio, I didn't own. Mark Bloom: Yeah, yeah. Mike: either of those two albums before, until after we had seen them live in 1980 that you've already mentioned. And you know the progression from 2112 to this album, you can see it in the material on those albums. But a great opening track for an album. Good one. Mark Bloom: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And it is interesting as we get in, not only ⁓ this song, but the next song that we're going to talk about as well. You you've got a song that is being critical of the music industry kind of molding a certain kind of music out of musicians. And they basically delivered on that mold. And people really fucking liked it. ⁓ It's again, kind of going back to, mean, artists should be able to create what they want to create without any question, any question whatsoever. I think that the music business itself, there's just so many other players that are involved. It's not just about artists going out and making money in a show or that type of thing. The record companies, the distribution, the retailers, these types of things, there are some realities. Mike: Yeah. Mark Bloom: that bands just have to face. I've loved the bands that have really tried to go against that and been successful. Whether you've got a song like Bohemian Rhapsody by Queen where they were told absolutely frickin' not and it became such a great song. To songs like this where yes, you've got what is a more accessible radio friendly song. But all those elements of progressive rock, of some of the changes and bringing different sounds into the song, it's still rock and roll, but a lot of that is still there. Mike: Well, and I mean the bottom line is when you have a process, the process of creating recorded music, I music that has been recorded and is ready to be put out on a record or a compact disc or what have you, that process costs money. And that process, if you're dealing with a record company, that process is designed at the end, the end game is to make money. Mark Bloom: Mm-hmm. ⁓ yeah. Yeah, yeah. Mike: So when you've got both of those things, there's always going to be someone looking over someone else's shoulder because they're the ones that are paying the money to get the music recorded in the first place. And that process is undertaken in a manner that they think is going to generate sales. ⁓ And ⁓ so it's just a... ⁓ Mark Bloom: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Mike: And when we talked about this, it is an inescapable part of the music business if you're going to be working with a company, you're an artist, and you're going be working with a company that wants to put out a record and have it sell. Mark Bloom: Yep. Yeah, you can be creating great music in your basement all day long, right? Nobody's going to give you a hard time about what to do, but it is a reality. So the spirit of radio tackled some of that, but what I love about the song is the way it feels from the very beginning. The spirit of radio to me is the ability to listen to it and to listen to good songs. This certainly is a good one to get the side going. OK, the second track. There's only three tracks on this side. The second track is also another big hit for them ⁓ at the time. It's called Free Will. And before we talk about this, let's just listen to the beginning of the song, and then we'll come back in and chat about it. Mike: Hear, hear. Sounds good. Mark Bloom: So I love the way that they work kind of this, they're gonna go back and forth between these two guitar themes ⁓ that's in here. One's more of a riff and one's more of a ⁓ rhythm that they'll go back and forth between through the entire song. And we started out with kind of a more just traditional guitar coming in. And then as we heard some... a little bit of the lyrics, and then we transitioned as we went into these planet of play things. the way that the rhythm of the song changes then to, changes up to be more of a of a smoother back and forth as opposed to a heavy hitting high speed guitar type riff. I've always loved the way that they pull that off in this particular song. And it ends up just creating a great backing, just feel to this song. ⁓ The song's about its title, Free Will. I've kind of seen a number of different approaches about exactly what they're trying to get at, whether it's just, hey, it's great to be free and make choices and you've got to be held accountable to your choices, to the fact that potentially church or religion is not allowing us to make those choices. There's a lot of references in here to prayer and to holy works and that type of thing that might be driving people's decisions as opposed to just the ability to do free will ⁓ or just an outright criticism of ⁓ religious faith and God and these types of things. I choose to just focus on the freedom of it. what it's pushing, but you can kind of hear some support for some of these other ⁓ ideas as you read through the lyrics. Mike: The song, I don't think is necessarily critical of religion, at least not in an aggressive way. But the chorus of the song, you can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice. Okay, there's, that's pretty straightforward. ⁓ A ready guide, in other words, you know, the... Mark Bloom: Yeah. Mike: the morality that's set forth in the Bible, ⁓ the commandments of God, the source of the Judeo-Christian ethic, whatever you wanna call it. And if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice. So someone that hasn't chosen that particular path has still, they've made a choice. And you can choose from phantom fears and kindness. Mark Bloom: Nope. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mike: that can kill. Now, for me, that's sort of, ⁓ that's the Old Testament and the New Testament. Phantom Fears is fearing the wrath of God and kindness that can kill being Christian charity. ⁓ I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose free will. It's more of a declaration of liberation. Throwing off. Mark Bloom: Yes. Mm-hmm. Mike: throwing off chains as opposed to complaining about the chains. Mark Bloom: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And also, I mean, and if you look at the lyrics, it is very clear. It's I will choose a path that's clear. I will choose free will as opposed to, hey, all you fuckers out there should be, you know, should be, you know, choosing free will. ⁓ The so, you know, where I and throughout this. Mike: That's how I see it. Yeah. Mark Bloom: Throughout the song itself, you can hear those same allusions. There's clearly some discussion of religion and people making their, you know, the cards, ⁓ people playing the cards that were dealt to them by their religion as opposed to playing their own hand. ⁓ You know, I think that another aspect of it is not so much why people are making the decisions that they are, but they do seem to be somewhat critical of people that might have a poor lot in life, but then to just blame it on the fact that all this was preordained anyway, so I don't have a choice. So, you know, I'll just, you know, I'll just live. And I think that is an attitude that they are criticizing because people do have a choice and they can act, they can change things in their life. They might not be able to, but to just say, I don't have any choice in this. is something that they clearly don't believe in what they're trying to put out in this song. Mike: Because the free will that's being articulated, and there isn't necessarily any description in the lyrics about what the singer or the song, because Neil Peart wrote the lyrics, the drummer, and Geddy Lee, the bass player and vocalist, sings the lyrics. I mean, there are, like in punk rock, Mark Bloom: Yeah. Yeah. Mike: that had come around in the few years prior to this album being released. There's a lot of anarchy, anarchy in the UK and kind of no rules and sort of aggressively, not just throwing off chains, but breaking them and then stomping on them on the floor. Whereas here, it's not a free will. I don't equate free will with no rules. Mark Bloom: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mike: I apply it more as you say, it's that you have choices in life. And if you feel that you've gotten a raw deal from someone, well, what are you gonna do about it? ⁓ It's not a call for anarchy. It's more of a call for, you're responsible for yourself because you're the one that makes the choices regarding what you do and what you don't do. Mark Bloom: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mike: ⁓ So it's a, I think that's an important aspect of the song, at least as I hear it, is that it's... Mark Bloom: Absolutely. And I agree 100%. You feel that in the, you know, the feel and the rhythm of the song. You know, there's a progression on this particular side. I think that there is at least the song, the spirit of radio starts very upbeat. It moves along, it's tapped the feet, it's smile on your face. There's more of a seriousness to this song. ⁓ It's not so bouncy and you know, is just it's it's got a more like this is serious, right? You've these are choices that you're making. It's serious. It's not that it's not a fun song to listen to, but there's just it's a little it's a little heavier and I don't mean harder music. I mean, just the it just feels like a little more serious is what we're what we're referring to. Mike: but it moves along and it rocks. Mark Bloom: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. In fact, in fact, let's listen to some of that rocking as we get into the song, we're going to hear some some great guitar and they again, they you'll feel it move back and forth in kind of the structure and what they're doing with the you know, with the song. And but yeah, we're going to rock here. So let's listen to some of that and then we'll wrap up talking about the song. Mike: Alright. Mark Bloom: All right, so that was rocking. And not only did we hear some just starting out with the bass and then going into some really good guitar, and then there are this, they're just rocking out there for a little while. And then you can start to feel them fall back into this more of the rhythm of the song. And then we hear a really strong vocal, wrap up when when Getty comes back in, he's just like each of us. I mean, just just and he's got he's got a powerful, unique voice as well on top of on top of everything that's happening. And I think that this this portion of the song really shines on all of that. You got some great drumming. You got some great, you know, complex bass playing that's going on. You got some great guitar. And then we pounded home with some with some great vocals. I mean, it's it's it's I think it's a great song and I really love really the second half and how this song wraps up. Mike: That guitar break is really kind of a good illustration of what we're trying to, I think what we're trying to articulate here is that at this point in their career, Rush had sort of succeeded in this combination of progressive rock ideas with straightforward, more commercially accessible hard rock music. I think the guitar break is just a good illustration of how they have successfully synthesize those two things together into something that sounds like them. This sounds like Rush. And coming out of the guitar break, because I agree with you, that's really a very strong moment in the song when Getty leaves, each of us, and those lyrics that each of us, a cell of awareness, imperfect and incomplete. Mark Bloom: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mike: genetic blends with uncertain ends on a fortune hunt that's far too fleet. mean fleet as in fleeting. As in fleeting. And that really sums up kind of where the song is coming from. ⁓ Mark Bloom: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's beautiful. I mean, beautiful lyrics. mean, Neil, Neil Pert came up with some just when you think about everything that they're talking about, just in those words that you read. OK, so each of us were individuals, right? We're making our own choices here. A cell of awareness. Again, we think we've got we're aware of what's going on. Mike: We are sentient beings. Mark Bloom: Yes, yes, we're imperfect and incomplete. So we're going to make mistakes. That's that's OK. Genetic blends were tied to our past to a certain extent ⁓ with uncertain ends. Our future has not been predicted yet on a fortune hunt that far too fleet, which is basically a great way of saying life is fucking short, man. Right. You know, live it, you know, with with with these things. Mike: Yeah. Mark Bloom: I love the, you know, we've talked on a number of occasions about different songwriting style and how, you know, these acts. And of course, here you've got the music is written before Neil Peart gets a hold of it to write the lyrics. So he's going off the lyrics to really come, you know, so much of this music was written without having any idea of what the lyrics were going to be, which to me sounds a little backwards. You want to be kind of singing, but that every band had their different techniques. And I can just picture, you know, Neil sitting in a dark room somewhere, you know, kind of listening to some of the music, smoking a cig, trying to come up with the words to, you know, to, I just, it's quite a process and ⁓ the results. just, I love the lyrics that come out and, and that, what we just talked about, I mean, that was really poetry. just a word or two that contained a lot of meaning towards what they were getting at. Beautifully written and very powerfully performed by Geddy Lee. Mike: Well, and the I think that this song is an example of how, as a lyric writer, Neil Peart had advanced from the time of 2112. you know, and 2112 is basically, basically just a retelling of the same story that is that is told in a novella written by Ayn Rand. Mark Bloom: Mm-hmm. ⁓ Mike: who wrote Atlas Shrugged ⁓ and The Fountainhead. it was a shorter novel, the novella, that I believe she wrote before either of those other two works called Anthem. And the story is very similar. The guy lives in this sort of faceless society that's controlled by the powers that be and individuality has been removed and blah, blah. Mark Bloom: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mike: And he finds this old cave and there's like railroad tracks in a tunnel and discovers a device and electricity. And he brings it to the powers that be and they're, no, no, this is gonna fuck everything up, forget you found it kind of thing. Blah, blah. ⁓ Mark Bloom: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Mike: And that took a whole side of an album and this and that. And the lyrics, some of the lyrics on 2112 are beautifully written and really wonderful to listen to. But here, I think he takes a broader, more universal question and puts it, the issue of free will. Mark Bloom: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mike: It's not so much a question, but the issue of free will and puts it in a context which I believe he sums up in these lyrics that we've just been talking about and accomplishes more in this relatively straightforward single song than the entirety of 2112 in terms of poetic, literary, or philosophical substance. Mark Bloom: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where you have an album side in 2112, I mean, classic, great side of an album. But it's a very lengthy, lengthy story, driven by a lot of different phases and types of music and that type of thing, as opposed to just what is about 14 words. ⁓ I hear that just really put out a lot of meeting. ⁓ I think just a powerful song. The song has a wonderful feel to it. ⁓ I love the way that you're kind of going in a big kind of guitar and bass and drums area and they just bring it right back into the groove and feel of the song and dive back into the... dive back into the vocals. just, I think it's really well done and a really good kind of centerpiece to this particular side. Mike: Even if you choose not to delve so deeply into the significance of the lyrics, you get your money's worth out of this song. ⁓ It's one of their stronger tracks of their career, in my opinion. Mark Bloom: ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'd agree. I would say it's my favorite Rush song. And I mean, I'm a Rush fan, but this one I just particularly like. And part of that comes from, this is, know, we were really starting to get deep into, you know, the music scene, albums, concerts, this type of thing. you know, having seen this, I mean, that's a big part of the draw, certainly my attraction as well. mean, thinking back to those days, we... We had a fair share of fun and this music was ⁓ a big part of that and ⁓ it was playing all over the place. So ⁓ Free Will, second track. As I said, we've been progressing on this album from very, again, uplifting on the spirit of radio taking us to an uplifting place, the seriousness of the quest in Free Will. And now we're gonna move to something much more ominous as we get into Jacob's Ladder. So, you know, the final track on the side, a little bit longer. This one wasn't necessarily meant to be played on the radio. And not really a lot of lyrical content to it either. But what it does is it takes musically, with a little bit of description from the lyrics, but quite frankly, I would be thinking the same thing if I hadn't heard the lyrics, and talked about, to talk about what is really military conflict or combat, a ⁓ battle, a struggle that is going to come around. So let's listen to this and I think you'll feel from the very beginning, listen to the drums and see if you don't get that feel right out ⁓ the gate for Jacob's Ladder, the third track on this side. Mike: Sounds good. Mark Bloom: Yeah, and this just, I mean, there isn't a whole lot of lyrics. There's just basically a, ⁓ there's some lyrics and then we're gonna hear some of ⁓ the guitar and stuff that goes into it. And that's the only track that I'm gonna have on this particular song because the clip, good, good. It's hard, man. The only clip because I mean, you really have, although it starts to go and it's. Mike: Yeah. The only clip. The only clip. It's hard. hard. It's hard. Mark Bloom: basically the we're marching to the same drum for the rest of the song. So I'm sure you could see what I meant when we moved to more of an ominous type tone. The snare drums in there, can just, just the military feel, you can just, you can see armies marching to prepare to get in line to, you know, to begin a battle. ⁓ The words that go along with it are, you know, they talk about, you know, clouds looming overhead and just, it is a, ⁓ just an incredible feel of conflict or combat that is coming at you. Now, Neil Pert actually wrote this thinking about a thunderstorm. ⁓ And he saw a thunderstorm and Jacob's Ladder is one of the terms to describe as clouds begin to part and in a dark sky when you get bright lights of sunshine that come through and streak down towards the earth. I'm sure you've seen that and whether it be after a storm or they're really visible as we get towards the time of sundown, you see these lights coming down. That's Jacob's ladder ⁓ as he's referring to here. ⁓ I think it's also another way of describing a staircase up to ⁓ heaven, but I think he was more focused on the the lights that will come out after a storm. And I just think that the song itself and the music of itself does a great job of like the growing gathering conflict, the storm that is to come. I picture a military battle, although this would be a great background. We just had the US hockey team win gold medal. I mean, kind of describing the back and forth, the collisions, the intersections. This song would be a soundtrack to that and fit very well into what is going on there. They just captured the notion of conflict or combat so well musically here. And I think it's just a, it's a powerful way to end this up. Mike: Well, the drumming that you mentioned, I think that the of the rhythmic structure would be compared to a march. And a march is music that is sometimes used in a martial context, as in military. ⁓ And in some ways, this growing ominous Mark Bloom: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mike: you know, gathering darkness, at least at the beginning of the song, is mildly reminiscent of something, King Crimson, when they first started, did an instrumental version of the classical music, Gustav Holst's From the Planets, ⁓ Mars, The Bringer of War. And that was, you know, it started out slow with sort of this march, martial, Mark Bloom: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mike: drumbeat and the ominousness just grew until the end of the song where the nuclear holocaust was coming. ⁓ Whereas this song, I think it starts out with the building, you say the clouds prepare for battle. I mean those are the lyrics. So mean a military conflict is definitely alluded to. Mark Bloom: Yeah. Yeah. Mike: in ⁓ the lyrics, although it is talking about light and darkness and clouds more so than armies and nations and whatnot. And I agree with you what you said. I Jacob's Ladder, we were talking about some of the religious ⁓ content of the lyrics in free will. ⁓ And Jacob's Ladder is a, you that comes from the Bible. Mark Bloom: Absolutely. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mike: But this song is not, I mean, I think you're right that more just the clouds breaking up and shafts of light coming down from the heavens. That's why it's titled Jacob's Ladder. It's not really a religious reference. ⁓ And so you've got this conflict, this darkness, the thunderheads are rumbling in a distant overture. Mark Bloom: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mike: And she's like, well, there you go. But then eventually, all at once, the clouds are parted. Light streams down in bright unbroken beams. then follow men's eyes as they look to the skies. The shifting shafts of shining weave the fabric of their dreams. It's sort of like things have been bad, but there's a break in the clouds. There's light coming down. Mark Bloom: Yeah. Mike: And it's really a, it's song where, yes, it's dark, but the clouds are gonna break. And when you see the sun, things are gonna be better. mean, that's simplistic, but I think legitimate take on where the song is coming from. Mark Bloom: Yeah. I completely agree. The song, we didn't hear it in the clip, but the song ends with an uplifting thing. In Jacob's Ladder, these streams of light that come through the clouds as the storm ends, it's absolutely an optimistic feel to the end of the song. And almost as if we needed that conflict. just like we need rain showers to, you know, for our plants to grow and for us to, you know, be able to produce food and survive and these types of things, right? ⁓ What comes from that is actually incredibly valuable. In fact, even necessary for ⁓ not only to us to exist, but for us to have wellbeing and that type of thing. And in between, the song is... seven minutes long or something like that. You know, there's this ominous lyrics to start the song about the the the thunderclouds approaching and preparing for battle. And it ends with this very optimistic feel to it and everything in between. We only listened to a little bit. It's a long it's a long song. But you're you're hearing this, you know, this conflict, this storm played out as a distant overture. you know, as they say. And what's happening in between certainly does sound, you know, punching back and forth, fighting, you know, advancing, you know, retreating, you know, death, destruction. You're hearing a lot of this in a very accessible way. This isn't opera music that is portraying this. It's a pretty good guitar, drums, bass that is coming together, a lot of music, a lot of guitar coming at us here. And it is at the very end as the storm seems to rest that it's like, yep, we knew it was coming, right? This light to weave the fabric of their dreams, ⁓ as you've said. So we do end with an uplifting piece at the end, some hope for humanity after the clash ⁓ of this conflict. Mike: And it points out a relatively simple concept that in day-to-day life and in life in the bigger picture, there's periods of light which are inevitably followed by periods of darkness, which are inevitably followed by periods of light. Mark Bloom: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mike: et cetera, et cetera. that's really, lyrically, this song is a simple message to that effect. And the music just kind of illustrates it. Really, it's a musical accompaniment to the ideas expressed in these lyrics, which we've touched upon. And we covered a lot of them. Mark Bloom: Yeah. Yeah. Mike: because the lyrics are pretty short and sweet. ⁓ But it's a, I ⁓ don't think the track overall is as strong as either of the first two, ⁓ but it, and my recollection is they played this in Green Bay. I mean, they played all three of the songs on this side ⁓ when we saw them. Mark Bloom: Yeah, yeah. Mike: And ⁓ they did a good job of accomplishing that. ⁓ And just the idea of, know, we're gonna give you the storm, but we're also gonna give you the sun. ⁓ And so just hang in there. I mean, that's really kind of the message, that things move from darkness to light. And... ⁓ Mark Bloom: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. And you feel that in the... And the song focuses a lot on the conflict, the darkness. But this is when you look at like a seven and a half minute song and we've talked about, know, a progressive band, are we going to steer off into some weird improvisational thing? They keep it together. is this example of it. It's kind of this progressiveness perfected. where we're able to go off, we're going to change things up a little bit, but we keep bringing it back to a common theme, right? In this do-do-do-do-do, do-do-do-do, do-do-do-do. That keeps rearing its head throughout the end of the pretty long instrumental portion of this song. And they take it in other directions, but they keep bringing it back. And I think that that's one of the elements that keeps it really accessible, even though it's a longer instrumental piece of a song, because there isn't that much time devoted to the lyrical content. It's another example of how Rush has kind of taken their art form, and they're still delivering some stuff that's outside the lines, right, in as far as its length and some of the directions that they're going into. Yet they're keeping it. accessible and flowing in a single thing. it's a great example of that type of thing to wrap up this side, which started out with two much more basic just hits, right? That they brought in some of the, certainly some of their progressive styles into those music, but they started with hits and they took us a little back. We're going to stretch things out a little bit on this last track to create just a good example of where they were as a band at that time. ⁓ really representative. They've got these hits, but they've still got this style of music that sounds like Rush and just brings a little bit more out than a three-minute song really could. Mike: The one thing about this song is there's no message. This idea of periods of light followed by periods of darkness followed by periods of light, all you gotta do is just keep looking out the window if you live where we do and it's gonna get dark every night and it's gonna get light every morning. It's creating an artistic statement. ⁓ that ⁓ a musical, more of a musical poem than poetic language so much. Although I think the lyrics are nicely done to accompany it, but it's basically, it's more artistic. It's more letting music, the music more so than the lyrics is where the message is. And whereas Free Will, I you're taking one of the Mark Bloom: Yes. Yeah. Mike: one of the, you know, a major philosophical question. What, know, fail, I mean, you know, humanity's ability, individual human beings' ability to exercise free will. Should they do it, shouldn't they do it? What should guide them? Et cetera. Pretty profound, really. ⁓ Whereas Jacob's Ladder is just, let's just give him some art. Because another label, Mark Bloom: We're digging into a deep topic. Yeah. Yeah. Mike: ⁓ for what was called progressive rock was art rock. And this song is the artiest, I would say, of the songs on this side. ⁓ And I think it does it very tactfully. Mark Bloom: Yeah, and it's an example of a song that you can enjoy without being able to dance to it, because this is not a real dance number that they have here. Well, just, it is though, it's a great way, I think, to wrap up this side. You could feel a progression with the side from the beginning to the end. The side plays well together, got some really Mike: Yeah. Mark Bloom: Big hits of Rush's, two of their biggest hits, and all said, a really great side of music. The other side is good as well. I think this whole album is a great album. And to your point, Mike, they followed it up with another really similar in style ⁓ album ⁓ with moving pictures, which I'd imagine at some point we'll get into talking a little bit about that one ⁓ as well. Mike: Not outside the realm of possibility. Mark Bloom: Absolutely, absolutely. Well, an interesting band, a band that certainly impacted our listening to music when we were younger and that we certainly enjoyed seeing. We've seen several times since and ⁓ one that I enjoy listening to to this day. So great album, great side and a good conversation maker. Mike: you Definitely. Well, all right, Mark, we will talk to you next time.