Rose Gibson: Welcome to today's episode of I'm Fine But I'm joined by Lee. Lee, welcome to the show. Thank you. So can you tell our listeners who you are and what you do? My name is Lee, and I am a regional franchisor for Wild World Group. And I look after and support a group of fabulous women who run their own businesses. And I also run my own Millie Professor's business too. Super exciting. I love it. So take me back to the beginning. What did you do before you had children, before you started all this? What was your profession? So I was a professional I traveler for many years. A professional traveler. ⁓ then I think I was kind of late 20s and I thought well I need to actually get a profession. And then I did a few jobs and I ended up working in the world of management training. So I was in the corporate world. ⁓ Worked for ⁓ Cineworld ⁓ and then I worked for ⁓ Home Retail.

Rose: You've just listened to I'm Fine But. If you're unsure about business or what really matters to you right now, why not take our free Core Values course? It's linked in the show notes and it's a brilliant place to begin. Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode and you can follow us online at all your favourite social media platforms at BabyBeat UK. Until next time, I'm Rose and I'm fine but honestly...

Rose Gibson: So then you had your first child. Yeah. What happened? What changed? Everything changes, doesn't it? Everything changes. I think my job was field based, so I was always, always on the road, which I didn't mind at all. Working long hours here, there, everywhere. And then you have a child and you think, I don't want...

Rose: We're all just figuring it out.

Rose Gibson: to be doing that. I don't want to be on the road all the time. I want to be at home with my family. ⁓ And I want to build something that fits around a family. knew I want, you know, I was at stage in my life, I mean, I was an older mother. So I was late thirties when I started my family. And yeah, I just wanted, I wanted something that fitted around my family. Yeah. So much changes, don't they? Yeah. You as a whole person, everything that you thought you wanted just... evolves into something new. So did you just start looking at anything? Tell me about the process of this journey that you've been on. my had always had his own businesses. So I knew that I wanted my own business, but I'd never come up with the idea. ⁓ And I wasn't looking, I wasn't looking to run my own business at that moment. I think like many people, I went to a class, I to Baby Sensory, I fell in love with it. I fell in love with the class leader who actually ended up being the founder, marvellous Dr. Lindey, ⁓ and I think I was in like, we call it the EPA area, sitting and talking to some mothers that I'd met, and then I overheard a conversation about being in China. It was like, ⁓ it's bigger than my little class. And that's, I think I came home and just thought, you know what, it ticked all my boxes. So the program ticked my box. I could see myself doing it. ⁓ I knew I could do it. found my calling. So I went home and I just, I think I said to my husband, I know what I want to do. And it happened quite quickly really ⁓ from there. ⁓ So you built successful classes. quite quickly. yeah, very quickly. I don't think because I'd always seen successful classes, I knew me, I knew my ability. Yeah. So I was kind of babe in arms, Molly was actually about nine months, I went and did my training, launched my classes. I remember the caretaker on the first day saying, I think I was charging £5.50 a class at the time. Yeah. ⁓ it will never work, he said. ⁓ And I absolutely had no doubt that I could make it work. So I think I started with 60 new mums with their babies. I had to keep my other job. My husband told me I had to keep my other job until it kind of, you know, was less risky. And we see so many women that do that because it's such a huge jump from employment to self-employed that sometimes you do need that transition period. And it's a bit of then a balancing act because You need the transition period to feel secure in it, but you also need the time to put into your business as well. So it's a bit of a catch 22, isn't it? Sometimes you're like, but if you go all in, you'll get there quicker, but it's also a scary step as well. Yeah, I don't think it was for me. It definitely was my husband. Although, to be fair, it was never a big enough risk. The financial, you know, the money you're putting in at beginning. you know, worst case scenario, it doesn't work out. It didn't feel that big a risk not to take the risk. Okay, yes. And I just knew that I could do it. Not the business side, I'd never had a business. I knew nothing about business, but actually running classes. I think when you, especially then, you know, when I went into it, I was quite naive to so many things, but I just trusted myself, I think. ⁓ We do get people that say when they come on they're like, I didn't realize the other stuff that goes with it. It's not just teaching the classes. You know, that's about 20 % of what you need to do. 80 % is everything else. Back of house, isn't it? The front of the house is the doing the do, but the back of the house, if you're not doing the back of the house, then the doing the do ain't gonna love that phrase, the doing the do. You just gotta do the do. It's good to do the do, yeah. But it wasn't long, I think, within weeks. ⁓ I think I had, well, I added another class and had four classes and at that point, and like you say, can't, you know, if you're gonna start a business, you you need to believe that you can do it. And it does need time and you need to give it that time. yeah, it's. And it's that whole thing of whether you, you know, you were saying about the risk and the reward for that and the. Do you not do it and then stay safe and regret not doing it? Or do you do it with the open eyes of, okay, well, I could lose this investment, but then at least I've gone for it because I feel like I'm passionate about it. And it is just weighing that up, isn't it? For every single person individually, is it worth that risk for them? Yeah, that's everything in life, isn't it? You shouldn't regret things, but I felt that, you know. There was nothing that I could just go for it. Yeah, would you rather regret doing it or regret rather regret not doing it? Yeah. Well, you never know, would you? You would never know. So why not go for it? But then maybe that's personality as well. Yeah, definitely. But I think if you are going into business, you need to have a bit of that. Yeah. You know, personality. Yeah, a of a gutsy edge. It's not for everyone. No. We've talked about that quite a lot, that it isn't for everybody. And tell me a little bit more about that, because you do say that quite a lot, don't you? You say that running a business is not for everybody. What do you really mean by that? You have to be someone that is adaptable, goes with the flow, accepts change, because, you know, since I started running business 15 years ago in the children's activity sector, hugely different. You know, so you have to be able to go with the flow, you have to be able to accept change, you know, we all have levels of what's acceptable to us. But, you know, eventually you need to go with the flow. Times change, gosh, you know, there wasn't even Facebook, there was Facebook, but you definitely didn't use it for marketing now. And now, you know, we've talked about this, it's not my natural space because You know, I, you know, it's so different. It's so different now and it continues to be different AI and you know, all the things that we can use, the systems we can use. And it's been open to it as well. The businesses that are staying up and continuing to grow are the ones that are open to change and that go, okay, yes, this marketing worked 10 years ago. Not necessarily going to work now. We've got to move and adapt and where are our clients? Where's our... where's our audience going to be at and how we're going to reach them. So then you've gone on to the role of becoming a franchise or for your area. Yes. Talk to me about that. So again, I think that just kind of naturally happened at the beginning. It wasn't in the plan. My plan was that I was going to run my own local business, which wasn't local. kind of had to do a travel, an hour to my area. And then quite quickly, and again, that's been open to opportunities, isn't it? So quite quickly, I took on an assistant who then became my class leader. one of my first classes, ⁓ customers, and then another customer was interested in the program, became my first franchisee. So it just kind of naturally happened, I was in this situation. Again, that role is very, very different. ⁓ know, ⁓ franchisees, it's own ⁓ So, you my role not to be telling them what to do. ⁓ It's a brand. ⁓ there are obviously, know, guidelines. ⁓ But that was quite to learn as well. The relationship is different to ⁓ being the employer. Yeah, so it just grew, know. At one point I had 13 franchisees that we were working together and growing together. And how did you feel at that point? I think at that point, because I can remember a point where I had 13 franchisees and running Baby Sensory and then I had started already started running Mini Professors, which is another one of programs. I vaguely remember there was a lot of rocking and dribbling in a corner, know, trying to juggle it all. And then I had to adapt actually at that point. I was like, right, okay, so I need to stop me physically running classes. Yes. I need to focus on my team. Again, I think you have to make decisions all the time. So yeah, it changed again. Yeah. And stepping back from teaching is an important part of it because you see things from a different perspective. you just see a different way of it, don't you? Sometimes stepping back gives you more insight into actually what needs to go in to keep it successful. So then what happened? this when a COVID hit? ⁓ my gosh another change is it's a it's being able to adapt isn't it and then COVID hit. And I think for so many businesses it was finding a way to survive but of course you didn't know how long you had to survive for so that was massive. Survival of the fittest one day in Covid. and again I think within that that time you know my team and the boarder team you had some that found it so difficult and then you had it some that wanted to find a way of making it through it and it was a combination of all sorts of personalities. People were coming up with phenomenal initiatives and some were really struggling with it but we did come through it. Our programmes were all online I think within about four or five weeks. ⁓ completely different. You're running those classes at home. One of my franchisees was in a kind of a small flat, was running it from a bedroom. The whole family, they had to adapt. Some of my team never been on camera, would never have done a video. They're experts now, they've come through. yeah, that was in so many ways, that was difficult times, wasn't it? Definitely. And some people didn't come through. Some people, that was the end of their journey. our relationships within my team, everything before then had been rosy tinted and I was just there to guide and support and work together, we can do this. And that was probably the first time I'd ever had to deal with any kind of conflict. So, which was not my happy place. So that I struggled through that, definitely. ⁓ But yeah, we, you know, we did come through it and, you know, it's taken time to build those relationships, you know, again, so, again, that's part of business, isn't it? You know, you're not employed. ⁓ You know, people have had parents that died or illnesses, you know, we've had all sorts of things going in. going on within, ⁓ they've got a support network, but they're not employed, it's their businesses. They needed to find a way to come through that. And you talk a lot about resilience. the resilience that it has to run a business. And I for you, you had a huge life event that happened, which was catastrophic in so many different ways. How did you find that you could then... build your resilience back up after, know, and anybody that's listening, that if they've had something that's happened to them or a family event or, you know, so many different things happen to so many different people, how you can then keep your business running through that because it's huge and you almost don't show that side, do you? No. Well, when, when ⁓ I was going through what I going through, I needed to keep it separate and I needed the business to keep going. I mean, I was lucky I've got, you know, ⁓ a supportive family. So ⁓ I, know, I got people in place to so that the business continued doing my team, you know, it continued whereas ⁓ I able to sort my bit out. ⁓ I think there was ever You can't, if you're in business, people are relying on you. You can't just stop. And actually, even if for any reason you had to stop, you're running classes, you've got customers and for whatever reason, you have to stop them. It has to be a plan in place, doesn't it? When you're coming back. ⁓ So I don't think I ever... I don't think I ever, I could never, the business was not going to stop. It was going to continue. do you feel like that gave you a little bit of something else to focus on? The business, yeah, the business was the easy side. That was the joyous side. That was joy. Yeah. Yes. ⁓ But putting things into place, again, it's just, we don't know what's around the corner. You know, things come at us very unexpected in life. But maybe that's what makes life exciting as well, doesn't it? And I think that's, you know, from our conversations that we can kind of tootle along, can't we, at the pace that we're on. We never know what's around the corner. We never know that, you know, these things that happen to other people completely happened to us at any point. I think maybe, maybe that's a good thing that we don't think that because we won't do anything, would we? ⁓ But what about if, you know, if we've got people that are listening that are thinking, well, I'm a business and if something huge happened to me, the business is so reliant on them. Do you think it's a it's a mindset resilience thing to be able to keep a business running and deal with personal stuff at the same time? Because I know for a lot of people, the boundaries are very blurred. think there's any option is there or there is an option you could just stop yeah And of course, that is an option. That is not just a stop. There is an option to sell, you know, there is. ⁓ Or there is hope that day you will get through whatever it might be. And actually, you still want the business at the end of it. So you things in place. So there's always options. I think you have to be open to all those options. And even if at whatever that moment you're thinking, you know, this is I this is the end of it, you know, like I can't deal with, you know, I can't deal with, especially if you're leading a class and you have to go in and, you know, be that friend, your customers don't want to see that person at the front being miserable. No, you know, they might, they want to know that person is real. Yes. But that's, that's, they're not paying. Yeah, they're not paying for your burden, are they? No. So I love that the fact that you've just said there's options because I think so many times people do feel backed into corners or that, you know, even if you do have to stop, it's okay. I'm going to stop for this period of time. And I'm fully aware that I have to almost restart and get things back going again, but that's still an option. Yeah. Going back many, many years. So I started my baby sensory classes and I knew I wanted another baby. Yeah. So I put everything into place. I found class leaders. I was gonna have my maternity, bish-bash-bosh, amazing. My sister was gonna do my admin. I was gonna have a bit of maternity. Things don't work out like that. So one class leader rang me. I'm just about to go off. I'm still running classes out here. Oh, I'm pregnant too. Oh, congratulations. So then we had to find maternity cover. My other class leader rang me, well, my husband's got a job in Scotland. So actually at that point, decisions had to be made. And then I ended up franchising off my, you know, my original business and closing another one of the businesses for temporarily, you know, and actually it was going to be six months. I was going to come back with a baby in arms and have someone in the background putting them to sleep. That didn't happen, but I came back. I think nine months later and off I went again. So that happens a lot in our industry. We are, a lot of us are mums. Maybe we've had our first. We're in the worst industry for getting broody as well. I tend to say this to women. I'm like, are you having any more children? Because you will get broody being around babies all the time. If you've got that little seed of doubt. But yeah, it depends what industry you're in, it? I think it's just a hazard of us being around babies. Yeah, but you can still work around it. can still, you know, gosh, I've seen many class leaders literally, you know, but then you need to get an assistant to help you to set up and all those decisions, decisions, decisions, continually adapting and finding new ways. So if you're looking now for new franchises, because your business model, you don't just have baby sensory, you've got the many professors, you've got all different... angles to it. So depending on what someone's interested in, what qualities are you looking for? I don't think it matters what the program is. You have to be real. I think, you know, in the world of social media, it's about visibility. And actually in the world of AI, people are looking for connections, they're looking for, you know, someone that is real. And I think from, you know, I've had people that I've got franchisees that are still with me after 15 years. I've had many that have come and they've gone. And I think that the magic, what makes somebody work and what is if they are real people, you know, at the front of the cast, they are engaging, they are interested, they want to listen and understand that, you know, be a, you know, they want to be, and they're excited. You know, like in your industry, in any class you go to, that person at the front. So that's what I'm looking for. In terms of them running the classes, in terms of the back of house stuff. They need to, it's a business. They need to understand that they're not employed. They need to really ⁓ understand their... demographics, understand the community. They need to be not afraid to get involved in the community. Marketing, marketing, marketing, marketing. And if they're not the expert in marketing, be open to get somebody in to do the marketing for them. You know, like, I think a lot of ⁓ in our industry or sole traders, we try and do it all. We try and do it all. If you are listening on audio, I just got a point of me then for doing it all. We try and do it all and we can't do it all. We are a business. I used to joke that, you know, I had a hobby job, you know, because I think maybe as well because being a mum, you know, we're trying to do it all. We're trying to fit it around things. I think sometimes it can be seen as a hobby job. Do you know what? And I hate the word with a The mum-trippin-er? Fuck off. It's a business. But they're calling you a mum before an entrepreneur and that's why, ⁓ it just really pisses me off. And it's almost this lesser status that men are entrepreneurs and obviously not all men will say that but men are entrepreneurs, women are entrepreneurs, a female entrepreneur and then if you are a mum you're a mum-trippin-er. And I know. Just because I've got children doesn't mean that you don't need to give me that label first. No, but I think sometimes we do that to ourselves as well. Do you think? Yeah, I think we do. Not all of us, of course. ⁓ We don't give ourselves that label. We're doing everything. We're the mental Yeah, and we're fitting the business around. all the other things. And if somebody came up to you and called you a mumtrapiner, it's so hard to say mumtrapiner, if somebody called you that how how would you feel about that? I probably wouldn't think that too much about it. That was that word. Yeah, I probably wouldn't think that that much about it until now. I just feel like it's loaded. It's so loaded with the fact that you are a mum and you're doing this little business around having children. It's like, well, no, actually, some of us are making more money than people doing full time jobs. And I love that, but don't label me in this box of being a mum first. Yes, of course, my children are always going to come first, but that's not part of my business. No. However. being able to be a mum and have a hugely successful business is, it could be flipped the other way. And actually that is huge, it's huge. Being able to start and do a business and be a successful business and be able to do all that. My family and my husband are amazing. But sometimes I do think that if my husband had his own business, I would be in the background doing this and then I would be helping him. The other way around, we put it on ourselves sometimes as well. do, yeah, yeah, the expectations. Yeah, because that's my job. My job is to do all that. But that's the expectations that you're putting in that it's your job. Yeah, it is my expectations, isn't it? Yeah. the expectations of society as well, which hopefully we're getting into some shift that's slowly happening, not everywhere. But yeah, and you are right. Maybe you can flip it around and say, well, it's a positive thing that we are showing that we can raise children and build these powerful businesses. But I just don't like it. I just don't like it. There needs to be a new way to frame it. And I know you was talking about the qualities of what you look for in a franchisee. What do you not look for? Because I know for me, I say no to more people than I say yes to. So for you personally, if someone's coming and they're like, I want to be part of the WoW group, I want to be in your team, Lee, you've built this successful business, I want to do the same. What qualities would turn you off somebody? Now I do a lot of my stuff through gut and feeling. That's how I survive this world. ⁓ So it's a bit, that sounds a bit fluffy, but I do, I mean, I've had many, conversations and I know which ones will go through and which ones succeed. I think at the beginning of my journey, I said yes to people that I shouldn't have for them and for me. Yeah. Which I don't do that anymore. know, that's a curve as well. I think, you know, I've done that. Yeah, yeah, And employees as well. know, yes, please go work for me. Yeah, it's just it's hard to work. So we have to connect. mean, my team are very varied in personality. So it's not that they are, you know, just just a version of me because every version works. But we do need to connect because we have to work together. ⁓ And I back to that being real and just having their eyes open. Yeah. You know, it's difficult in those early conversations, whether somebody is open to and adapt to change because until that happens, how do you even know? Yeah. Because actually sometimes we have a very easy life where we don't have to deal with much change and then something happens. then we find out how resilient we are. So there's a lot of gut feeling, but it's also a part of it. I don't know the percentage, but a high percentage of women, my team have come through not having ever run a business. But that's great because that's the benefit of franchises. Me, the wider audience, we are there to guide and support and give them all those tools. ⁓ But they're still going to have their eyes wide open to the fact and understand the fact that this is their responsibility. They have the autonomy to make it work or not make it work. So what am I looking for? Somebody just understands. you know, I know from when I'm speaking to someone how vague their answers are. Yeah, how general they scoot around things are. Yeah. And has your gut ever been wrong? Because mine has. My gut's never been wrong. But I've not listened to my gut sometimes, because actually, there's also in my role, who am I to say, you know, if you've got somebody that is telling me they absolutely are going to be this, this and this. You know, I have been in that situation where I say, well, who am I? Who am I to say? How do I know? I don't know. I don't know them. I am right. I usually am right. Maybe I need some of your good then. Some Yakult in there. need me in your life. And because I think the thing that I find really difficult as well is their passion for it and their, yes, I'm going to do this. Yes, the drive for it. And you have that almost niggling of, but they could be great, but they could not be great as well. ⁓ And how have you that personally when either way, when they've done amazing, it feels brilliant, but if they haven't, ⁓ how do you manage as a person? It's a hard role. This role is hard. I find it, I would like to be less. We didn't start having this role, did we? No. You don't start out with it. No, you do take, I mean, I haven't got better at not. taking all those feelings, know, taking all that, you know, if they are struggling, I feel it, I feel it. And I can't. You shoulder a lot, don't you? You take a lot of guilt on. Yeah. Again, that's our expectations of ourselves. Yeah. And that's, think when you start these conversations, you know, I've got better at, you know, setting expectations really. ⁓ But I, yeah. I find, I do find it hard. I love it. You know, when I can celebrate successes with them, or when it's not going well, but we put something in place and it goes, you know, and it's followed. know, it's quite simple that, you know, if it was a recipe for a cake, it's quite, you know, there's, you know, cakes change. look at that. But, you know, if you follow a recipe in our industry, You know, it's quite simple, isn't it? You you've got to get the people in and you've got to keep the people. You know, it's either that you're not getting them in or you're doing something wrong here to not keep them. And it's continual. This is by knowing your numbers and your data is so important. And that's all the skills that come with having been part of a franchise network as well, that you can go to somebody. You know, I've talked about numerous times, I started my first business when I was 17 and I didn't know what I was doing. I had no idea. But actually to have somebody to go, but what does this mean? Why do I need to know my numbers? Why do I need to know where my leads are coming from? Why do I need to quantify that? And just to somebody for them to explain that to you so you can use it as a tool to enhance your business is so valuable. Yeah. Because otherwise you're sometimes fumbling around. I know I did a lot of fumbling, especially when I was younger. I was like, I don't really know what I'm doing, but I'm to give it a go. Yeah. I've had to learn that as well. know, like Helen, that's been with me since day dot, you know, we fumbled together, you know, so we've, you know, I've learned along the way. ⁓ Yeah, fumbling to stride. ⁓ That's what you can have on all your. We started with a fumble, now we stride across. So on the show every week we the guest what one bit of could you give our listeners if they are either thinking of starting a business or they're in a business from somebody who is in there doing it. What is the one golden bit of advice you wish somebody had told you before you started? I can't think of anything I'd wished I'd been told. Business strategy and marketing strategy. Strategy is important. This is stuff that I've learnt later on. a fumble. Yeah, lots of fumbling, but blissfully unaware. Blissfully fumbling. But that's just me and my personality probably. But actually, you know, I came from a world of goals and objectives and planning. So actually it wasn't that I was unaware of it. I just didn't do a lot of it. you know, to have that goal, to have that exit strategy, you know, why not? then work backwards. My husband would be very happy listening to me now. He's all about goals and objectives. ⁓ But that's really important is having a plan and following it. And this is stuff that I'm learning later on in business. So. anyone coming into business within my team, that will start from the very beginning. Yeah. But in terms of somebody that's thinking about starting a business, whatever that business is, just do it. Just go for it. And I think the difference is if you have an idea, your own idea, your own passion, you want to start your own business, amazing, go for it. It's fabulous. If you don't want to be employed, but you don't have this idea or this, you don't want to be on your own. You don't know how. Sanitise is just that middle ground, isn't it? You you've got everything on a plate for you, whether it's the lessons, whether it's the policies, whether it's the risk assessments, whether it's just the support guidance. Wherever you are, whatever you're going to do, Just go for it. What's the worst that can happen? What is the worst that can happen? And hopefully, the worst that can happen is you have a business and you can sell it on. You have an asset. Or you walk away from it. walk away. If it's not giving you joy and you're all about aligning with your values, you just walk away. But it's a choice, isn't it? It's a choice. You choose to do this. You put I choose in front of everything you're doing. If you're in a job you don't like, but you're choosing to be there, it gives you ⁓ power over the decision. So just go for it. Yeah. Brilliant. Well, tell our listeners, if they want to find you, where can they find you? WOW Timmons Valley West is my Instagram. ⁓ Babysensory and Toddler Sense, Wow Thames Valley West is my Facebook Fabulous. Well, thank you for joining me today. We'll put all the links in the show notes so people can come and connect with you. Amazing. Thank you very much.