Abhishek: another pod. Today we have Noorul with us, a marketing consultant with 12 years of experience in marketing. So hi Noorul, how are you doing? Nur: very good and ⁓ thank you Abhishek for inviting me. It's ⁓ great to meet people of the same and same community and try to learn and understand how the marketing space is evolving. Abhishek: Yeah, my pleasure, my pleasure. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Right. So Nural, take us back through the times when you got into marketing. Let us go behind 12 years. What was marketing then? How was it and how did it evolve right till now? I think it is a big story, but yeah, you have to it short and explain to us. Nur: I started in in Dubai. I was actually a TV buyer. I w I would book ads for Daber on TV across Arab Arab channels and I made a pivot where I got the opportunity to work on McDonald's and that was a career Abhishek: Okay. No. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. Mm-hmm. Nur: changing defining moment I would say because I was able to lead my team on setting up or testing mug delivery which was ⁓ world first in Dubai before it even launched in the US market so driving app downloads and then CR ⁓ Abhishek: Right? Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay. Nur: right up to the CRM level sort of data and analytics and then growing growing the business programmatically and driving more orders. And that's how it started. How it's evolved now is where Abhishek: Right. Nur: There's less of I believe we can we've come to a point where there's a lesser need of more operish operations because that can be resolved instantly and quite quickly and efficiently through AI and the sort of ⁓ tools that Meta and Google already have. But there's a more focus towards strategizing. Abhishek: Yeah. Mm-hmm. automated yeah Yeah. Nur: and also putting our efforts and understanding how creatives will be driving ⁓ efficiency, much more than look at what tips and tricks, what can I do in those campaigns or at set level. Abhishek: Mm-hmm. Right. Nur: I think that will be fully automated. So now focus on strategy and how creative is going to ob ⁓ better enhance your your audience segmentation and and your f full funnel campaign. That's how I think it's evolved. Abhishek: Right. Thanks. Right. Right. But Nural, out of my experience when I go back in time, felt that marketing back when ⁓ days it started, it was more on the creative side. It is more on the creativity of ads, like doing different kinds of stuff. ⁓ It was fun. Marketing was fun. But in... the days evolved it has become a numbers game you know it was like I'm spending this much how much am I getting out of this ⁓ do you agree on this statement that it has become that way or what is your take on it Nur: I absolutely agree with you. And then ⁓ it goes even before I joined the industry where we didn't have mind share, we didn't have ⁓ we didn't have these media agencies separated from creative agencies. It was just one shop. And then it got segmented. And then as I was you know, ⁓ as I realized it felt like we have more of an upper edge and creative was seemed a lot more secondary. But then Abhishek: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nur: I guess we come a full circle and we realize how Abhishek: Mm. Nur: important creative has become because AI can just give out anything, any sort of repetitive things, but then that human touch and that emotion, that connect connectivity, is not just gonna come gonna come through any optimization of ad sets or create campaign level optimizations or CBOs or it's just gonna come to how I can emotionally ⁓ Abhishek: Yeah, completely agree. Yeah. fail. Nur: ⁓ yes, connect with my audience and that's through the creative and how deeply it touches. So we come back a full circle. Abhishek: Yeah, true. walk us through the experience of ⁓ you being in McDonald's or Nutella. What was the scale and what did managing $15 million in media teach you the most marketeers never learn? Nur: start with McDonald's to be specific on McDonald's I was working ⁓ the AGMC side for the brand for Nutella I was working at the brand side and now ⁓ for ⁓ McDonald's w I mean yes it ⁓ it gave me an introduction to digital media and then programmatic and real-time bidding and paid social Abhishek: Mm-hmm. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Nur: That's fine. But what really helped me in my career and as I discuss marketing as a whole with clients and brands is what McDonald's actually taught me. Is about it's not just the McDonald's kind of make sure that there is uniformity, there is Abhishek: more. Mm-hmm. Nur: standardization how their burgers are but they also operate in how their branding is. There is so much rigorous SOPs on how if how seamless each creative should look, how their their website should operate, what the landing Abhishek: Yeah. Nur: Page journey to and the user experience should be like, which really helped me as I freelanced ⁓ sorry, freelancing in Canada, where I was able to consult small businesses in the US. And even though there was efficiency in what whatever they were doing on Meta Ads, it's just that their landing page experience was very clunky. And so those Abhishek: Mm. Right. Nur: How could I reduce as much resistance as I can from the click to the add to cart is what McDonald's taught me, which was no science, but it was just human emotions and just understanding of colors, schemes, how making sure that each placement it's within the peripheries so that you can the user just make sure that they buy. Abhishek: Right. Right. Nur: is what I would owe that to McDonald's. And then at for I would say at Ferrero, not just Nutella, the entire portfolio. That made me understand how stakeholder management does more than marketing. Is that I may have the best marketing plan for you. But then if I'm not able to sell that across different stakeholders, I it means nothing. Abhishek: Right. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Mmm. Nur: So you have to you have what it really essentially taught me was I have to go out of my comfort zone and stop talking about CTRs, CPAs, or ROAS. That means nothing to the managing director. They look you need to speak their their language, communicate more effectively about how media is translating into business outcomes. Abhishek: Right. Right. Nur: I'm able to tell the managing director that my investment on Walmart can increase digital market share in the Walmart ⁓ on the Walmart website by 3% in the next 12 months. That would make better, that would make them comprehend better and drive the ⁓ their business acumen for approvals. Abhishek: Okay. Right. Nur: So this is how I I look at my very short career and very ⁓ my humble experience. Abhishek: that's you can't tell it is as a short career but till today what you have explained the landing page being very seamless is what many brands lack and they are reaching to the target customers but i feel 90 percent of the brands are failing at putting their landing pages as perfect as possible you know the loading time the checking out the UI. I think rather than their main website the landing page should be focused a hundred times is what I feel. Nur: I cannot agree with you more. It's it's it's ⁓ it's surprising how I mean I could still understand a small business somewhere in Florida, you know, would who just try to run their e-commerce busin businesses new to it. But it's ⁓ brand managers in in large companies still ⁓ Abhishek: Yeah. Hmm. Nur: There there's still room for education. I that's how I would say, rather than looking at it in a way that I've kind of I've pivoted my mindset as well. So approach it in a way that, you know, it's more human. They're they're caught in many other things. So my job here is to listen to them and even consult, but educate as well. In a way that doesn't come across like I'm being like a social media guru. Abhishek: Yeah, yeah. Right. Right. Exactly awareness. Yeah. Nur: We just tell them that if we can do this change, if we can shift the button over here, or we can improve the ⁓ you know the if the lag time reduces, this is how much we can see the bounce rate improve or or come down. So kind of make them understand in very simple terms, then they would actually get it. So ⁓ and then the numbers. Abhishek: Yeah. Yeah. Nur: It it's ⁓ not about giving opinions, but more about giving the data. Just give it out and ⁓ they will see it for themselves. Abhishek: make sense, make sense. What is your perfect time? mean, what is the timeline for a page to load in your, if I ask you what is the perfect, you know, ⁓ timeline for the page to load or like timeline for the whole checking out process? How fast it should be? Nur: For McDonald's? Abhishek: for any D2C brand let's say. Nur: So I will always take McDonald as the reference point. Abhishek: Obviously, it's the king. Let's take it. Nur: Yes. ⁓ it was one minute fifteen seconds from the click to the thank you page. That was their benchmark. That so your your ad should have had enough details. The the creative should be that impactful. The call to action should be so simple. Abhishek: Right. Nur: That when they click on it, they go on the on the landing page. It's the order is so simple that they just have to plus do plus or minus and then add to cart, and then that's it. And then they could buy through Apple Pay or not. So, which is where I think it comes back to your question. ⁓ a lot of company, a lot of big companies right now in the US, what they've noticed is Abhishek: Hmm. Hmm. Nur: ⁓ what I've r realized is even if it's seamless, the landing page is seamless, I've I've added to cart. But when I go to buy, when I connect to the shop, the shop ⁓ the shop app, you know, it's ⁓ Abhishek: Mmm. Yeah, shop your thing. Nur: Not just Shopify, ⁓ it's it's a D2C app where it kind of saves it saves all your all your info. It's somewhat like a rival to Apple Pay. And but what happened was because people ⁓ those companies have not integrated the app seamlessly, so people have to go in and enter their details again. Abhishek: Okay. Okay, okay. Mmm. Okay. Nur: So this creates that resistance. So what they need to do is instead of doing that. Abhishek: Right. Nur: Have have you go to your merchant, go to that merchant, seamlessly integrated. There are a lot of competitors over here that's doing that where ⁓ they accumulate all those data and then they go to the app. It's like shh, I believe it's called Shop. Not the Shopify, it's called Shop. ⁓ and you can build your own ⁓ database and it's it's a sort of a a mall or a boutique in itself. Abhishek: Right, Nur: And then it's integrated with different ⁓ D2C ⁓ websites. And then it's quick and you don't need to enter your details, your address. It everything is d entered, is provided, and even your credit card details. And once you press the shop button, that's it, you've bought it. It's a lot like Apple Pay, but Apple Pay does not have that their own app where you can go in and check if you can ⁓ what other products are there. Abhishek: Hmm. Hmm, understood. Yeah, makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nur: It's a lot like Klarna. Have you heard of Klarna? Yeah. So Klarna is a rival as well. So if Klarna is integrated a seamlessly, then ⁓ I don't need to enter my address, my ⁓ credit card details, click that and it's Abhishek: Yeah, it automatically gets it from the previous data and fills it up. Nur: Yes. Shop has gained a lot of traction. much more than I mean, at least in the US I'm s or US sites, I'm seeing a lot shop come up more than Klarna. So maybe their ⁓ partnership is a little better. Abhishek: Mmm. understood understood. ⁓ Noodle I've been seeing a brand called Gruns in US have you heard about it Gruns Nur: Let me I Abhishek: yeah just check it out so i think the founder has done a billion dollar exit or something it is the fastest ⁓ grow i mean exit by a d2c brand founder Nur: Is it this? Abhishek: Yes. Yes. So. Nur: I've not heard. I've not seen it, but okay. Abhishek: Right. So I mean, ⁓ I thought you might have heard about it and we could have talked. mean more talk. Let's let's okay. Okay. Let's keep grandeur side. What is that favorite D2C brand? Let's keep Nutella or like McDonald's aside because you're so obsessed with them. What is your favorite D2C brand that they have structured this brand strategy branding marketing and the product. and the packaging to the best of the core in your POV. Nur: You know, top of mind that comes to me is ⁓ Zara, although it's not a conventional D to C as gruns would be or any other. But why I actually like ⁓ what really enthused me is when you go on their app or on their website, ⁓ you don't feel like it's ⁓ it's a shopping app. It's not like a demo or maybe not demo like but yes, it feels like a lifestyle. I'm Abhishek: Yeah. It feels like a lifestyle. Nur: i I'm I'm opening those really nice rich magazines that you know that used to come back in the days where where were very glossy papers. And then there so that's one. When even the landing page experience when I see their ads and when I click on it it's it's very s very quick of a shake. I think ⁓ Abhishek: Yeah. Yeah. I know. Nur: I I wouldn't be surprised it's it's as fast as McDonald's. ⁓ that's my reference point as on top of mind ⁓ that comes what what do you what is your what is the D to C that comes to your mind? Abhishek: on it. ⁓ I mean, I really love the way how ⁓ Gymshark has done its whole distribution globally. I mean knowingly or unknowingly I didn't know what Ben Francis founder of Jim shark was targeting global markets. I feel they have captured global markets without marketing those particular continents just through the brands ⁓ you know maybe product quality or the branding it has reached to the consumers so if you ask me Gymshark is one of the apparel brands I would say that you know I liked how they they have scaled Nur: That reminds me of Lulu Lemonan. ⁓ I mean Abhishek: Yeah, lululemon is also the same but I've never been a user of lululemon. I've always been a user of Gymshark. Yeah. Yeah. Nur: Gymshark? Okay. ⁓ J Lullevin I believe has some work to do. I feel ⁓ Abhishek: Yeah, they like something. Nur: I believe their quality has gone down. So even though there if if I look at their US Abhishek: Right. and they are very exclusive also. Nur: Pardon me, ⁓ you got cut off. Abhishek: They are very expensive, but then the product quality is not, you know, satisfying for us to pay that 300 bucks or something. Not even 300, 500 something. Nur: Yeah, I I couldn't stand it'll be more expensive in India. But it's even sitting over here, in North America, it's considered quite premium. And yes, I'd agree with you, it's not ⁓ it's not that great. However, how how good even at the end of the day your your UI is, you know, how s great your app may seem or Abhishek: ⁓ Nur: or how cool your ads are and then at the end of the day. ⁓ you know my my mentor actually told me you cannot sprinkle flowers on shit. Abhishek: ⁓ you Nur: Yeah. And people will be okay with that. So ⁓ so ⁓ that's how marketing is. I mean, only so much we can sprinkle, but then you know, the product has to be ⁓ very ⁓ good. So Abhishek: Yeah. Okay. I guess. I that but I think in on the numbers side I think Lulu Nehman is larger because based out in the US it is a bigger audience compared to Gymshahar because it has started in the continent of you know UK but I think on the numbers side Lulu Nehman is doing good I don't know I'm just you know this ⁓ Nur: Market size would be definitely bigger. ⁓ actually Luleman Luleman is a Canadian brand. ⁓ they they but what they've done is they have lifestyle beyond just the gym. So they have a wider net. Gymshark, they took a niche and they stuck to it. So maybe that's why their product ⁓ their market would be bigger in that context. Abhishek: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. sense. And what made you to decide to leave that world and started building from zero? Was there a specific movement or just burnout that made you to take that decision to be a marketing consultant by your own? Nur: Truth be told, I've always been a marketing consultant, even whilst I was working full time when I was in Dubai. And even like I I haven't left that. So it's just that it came in phases. Like, you know, I felt like doing it and I did it, and I and then when I didn't feel like doing it, I just left it. What ⁓ hit me was Abhishek: Yeah. Mmm. Nur: What kind of made that realization was I'd been through a a layoff due to this resizing in the in the company. And that made me kind of understand that you know what? I I am a product in myself and my value is that product. And I can be I can yeah. And Abhishek: Mmm. Wow. You will build your. Yeah. I'll market myself. nuclear. Nur: Whether it's that small you know, I in 2022, I was doing Fiverr. One of my clients was a person in Miami selling guitar picks. Would you would you believe it? It's just guitar picks. I would be like, What is that? Then I realized guitar picks is not just some any random thing you pick up, it's it's made of wood. Abhishek: Mm-hmm. ⁓ this. Nur: And then there's a certain level of thickness. Yes. And the type of word and then how the cut is that impacts the way you'd be able to play and what type of guitar you use. And then how the frequency can be impacted. And then he showed it to me whilst on our calls. Like if I just use a ha my hand and then I just use any any random ⁓ guitar pick that you know you can get from Abhishek: That's right, I mentioned. Yeah. Nur: the dollar store and then his, you could hear the difference even on sitting ⁓ even on my laptop. So then you can imagine how it is when you play it in front of people. So and then that's one of those guys who I helped with their website. So then I realized if I can help this guy with my experience thanks to McDonald's and all these other companies, then I can do it myself. Abhishek: Yeah. someone said. Nur: Is that ⁓ what was what was your experience like? Why how did you end up doing a lot of these things? You said ⁓ Abhishek: Yeah, yeah. So ⁓ for me, it was I was more I was more into luxury brands. I ⁓ used to love how luxury brands used to scale. Then I wanted to explore it. Actually, I had to do a master's degree in luxury brand management ⁓ from Paris to Louis Business School. But then before that, I wanted to get into business. So both had... happened at the same time. That business degree has converted into a summer trip to Paris for the same school. Yeah. And it was a summer internship that I've done there. So there, I was there for like three months. Experience was insane. was in lights of Louis Vuitton, Carl Lagerfeld. Nur: ⁓ my god. Abhishek: I was talking to the brand, mean people behind those brands worked behind those brands and all of that. So then, yeah, then I was like, okay, I know what is going behind these brands and I read a lot about marketing and all. Why don't I help out brands here, know, regionally? That's how I started, you know, getting into marketing. It's just the gut, like I want to help businesses with my strategies or like ideas. and all of that. Yeah, that's how I got into. But so I feel the only mistake I have done is being very regional, not being, you know, exposed to the global markets ⁓ is what I feel I've confined myself to. But then I figured it out and started exploring the global markets, making myself available, talking to people like you, you know, with a lot of experiences. And I'm still learning. Nur: No, I I'm I'm I'm learning from you. I mean it's it's quite surpr ⁓ great how you went to Paris and ⁓ and how that didn't you. You know, it's like I if I were to recall like back in the day I would be a lot risk averse. Get that job. And that's actually what happened with ⁓ you know, when I was doing when I told you when I was doing the f ⁓ f marketing being a consultant on the side Abhishek: Yeah. Ha Yeah Nur: There was a company that approached me. They had twenty-five milkshake stores in Dubai. Right? And they loved me. And but they told me that they do not like to work with these freelancers. You have to leave your job. Okay, we are ha we will give you a one ⁓ year contract. Okay. ⁓ yeah, you you have a team. We had a team. We had Abhishek: Mm-hmm. Mmm. Mmm. Hmm. full time. Nur: Three people, yeah. But you have to do this full time and I just never did it because like you know, it was always ⁓ no, you know, a salary is safe, you know, be safe. But then I think being safe ⁓ constricts you. Abhishek: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you we have to take that risk. I I I'll tell you I'm a very big risk taker I'll be very honest. I am a big Nur: That's great. Wow. So what is next for you? How you said that you're looking at global you're looking at global exposure. So in terms of global exposure, what is it then? Abhishek: No, so basically... Yeah, so as I mentioned that we are building an AI tool right now. So it's a completely SaaS based tool. know, it is kind, you know, you can connect your Meta, I mean Shopify and Meta Google Adacons to the, to us. And it is like a, I would say your 24 by seven campaign manager. It gives you updates. It's, it trains with you. talks with you. We have an agent there. always you know you can ideate along with it we have fed it with ⁓ the data we have sourced out in marketing specially in brands in d2c markets so the agent is getting brilliant day by day to be very specific that how a d2c brand should have how should they have their website how should their creatives be how how should their targeting be You could say Claude and Chajipati are also doing it, but they are very broad. You know, the agent doesn't give you the direct answer. But whereas the agent that we are training is very confined to D2C markets and you know D2C marketing is ⁓ I would say so it is kind of a subscription model. Have you heard about triple whale or magics? Nur: Yes. Chipotle will yes, I Abhishek: Yes, yes, yes, it's the same but we are trying to be more better than them. Nur: What's what's the name of your pro your product? Abhishek: It's called Wittelsbach.ai Wittelsbach.ai It's a German name and the agent is called back. Nur: So you Abhishek: Yeah. Nur: So do you ⁓ have ⁓ experience in ⁓ coding? Abhishek: Yes, my co-founder, he's been in Infosys as a lead for five years. So he's been behind the product. He had two to three, you know, IATNs from India. yeah, it's short, cute. I team with Claude, they're doing things. Nur: Okay. Okay, wow. ⁓ that that's so and what is your distribution ⁓ plan then? Abhishek: Yeah, very good question. You know, I was about to get on a call with you maybe next week about this. So, primarily I've been being very active on social media. You know, mostly I'm trying to get a lot of social media, organic social media presence. Then secondly, we are more precise on cold calling directly approaching you know people behind those brands either ⁓ brand manager in that particular brand or the founder we are trying to get the data and directly approach them that is the second most strategy and third and the fourth i would say email marketing and paid marketing is what funnel we have built around the distribution strategy Nur: And how is ⁓ so you when you talk about co cold calling, so like how is that experience like? Abhishek: ⁓ It is people are trying it just shaking out the product, you know, because we are in the beta phase. ⁓ It's just the trail version which we are trying to give out. So it's not the paid version, which is ⁓ the product is not yet there. So they are testing out the product there. We have built a dashboard where as you have also built the ROAS calculator, we have built a ROAS revenue league dashboard where It shows you how much revenue are leaking through these paid campaigns as the first page as soon as you link your meta and Google Ads. So they're checking it and they're giving out the feedback. So we have not been aggressive on it. We're just taking it slow, like, you know, taking the feedback from the users. Nur: So this has potential then. But then ⁓ at the end of the day, ⁓ The challenge would be these big agencies. These ⁓ the UMs or ⁓ Assembly Havas. Abhishek: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I feel, I think it is all based on the data you feed to the agent inside the product. You know, somebody can build it. I would say anybody can build it, like say 90 days. But what are you exactly feeding in it? That is the key here. We are being very precise with Very precise, we are sourcing data from all over the web, which has been very valuable, written by very profound marketeers and feeding that to the agent. So it is becoming a marketeer by itself. So I feel that would be a USP going along. Maybe people might not get used, ⁓ like it in the first time, but maybe after a while when they talk to it, they'll get to know how better it has become. Nur: Okay. Abhishek: I would say I always take inspiration from Claude. Initially it was very dumb, but now the whole AI wave has turned towards Claude. So I feel staying in the game, giving that value, feeding it better and better, getting better and better would make us work in the market. What do you say? Nur: Yeah. Yeah. No, no, I I think I think this has great potential, especially even up against these big h holding companies. Because what happens is they have bureaucracy that gets in. You don't you have the advantage of speed. So which they it's more difficult for them. So for you to make iterations is a lot easier for them, you know, ⁓ compared to them because they have a lot of Abhishek: Mmm. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. other things. Nur: internal politics and then hierarchies that goes up. So as long as the product is very easy to comprehend and then I think ⁓ and of course just getting that one one client is usually the difficult thing and then and then it gets Abhishek: we can scale. I know. Yeah, I feel five enterprise brands then we are off in the market. Nur: Yeah, yeah. Abhishek: Yeah. But yeah, I would like, I mean, I would definitely want to talk about this to you on a separate call. ⁓ I I want your expertise and views and I want to talk to this, talk about this in a different call, but I want to talk in this call more about you. So yeah, another question. How are you thinking about monetization or scaling? You know, as Nur: More than that big. Abhishek: a startup founder to take into consideration. Do they need to spend as soon as they launch? What is your go-to-market strategy for a D2C brand founder who is just starting off? Nur: I would first have a two-pronged approach. One is building your organic presence on social media. That's mo the most important thing. How are you going about that? ⁓ how is your is your content strong? Abhishek: Right. Nur: Once I'm able to even get a decent amount of community, I'm not even talking about hundred thousand, two hundred thousand, that's that's there, but if I can get at least three to five thousand ⁓ followers, those three to five thousand followers is enough for me to create that multiplier effect. Then with that sort of data that I have. Abhishek: Right. Yes. Nur: I could create those respective custom audiences and those local likes and then the paid will paid media will follow from there. As long as my this is my ⁓ approach is organic first and then paid later, which is very different from what I would expect from a large company. Things be pay paid is for them paid is much, much more important than Abhishek: with funding. ⁓ Nur: mean organic is important but paid obviously has so then for organic especially because if your budget is constrained then ⁓ think about what you you should have that story. People want to hear that story, otherwise you have Abhishek: Makes sense. Mmm. Nur: I don't need another deta clothing apparel c company, ⁓ you know, in the market flooded by it. Another superfood or grants, whatever it is. There's so many other in the market. What's your story? So if I can t communicate that story to my audience and just build that cult, if I would say. ⁓ do check out ⁓ Psychobunny. It's a yeah, Psycho Bunny. It's ⁓ Abhishek: Yeah. Hmm. Mmm, mmm, mmm. Psychoburning. I think I have gone through their website. Nur: Actually I should have mentioned them as a D to C. So they started as a ⁓ again you could say it's almost like a rival to Abhishek: cycle. Nur: Polo Ralph Lauren meets Nike almost somewhere there. But ⁓ Abhishek: Performance plus Formals Nur: More street cult, you know, more of street and okay, so ⁓ they build that cult, right? But now they realize they they focus too much on performance marketing. Now they're cutting back and ⁓ they're just trying to just go organic or brand awareness camp reach campaigns. That's what they're doing. So if Abhishek: Yeah. Nur: Psycho Bunny realizes now, then a new D2C should know that from the first. Build that brand equity. Okay. Have that because you want this company to run for maybe 50 hundred years, right? So then you should have that long term growth. I know it's always lucrative to look at that performance marketing. It's like a drug, right? That you take. You get that. But then it will not serve your ⁓ Abhishek: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nur: Loyalty in the long. Abhishek: yeah a lot of narrative that's been spread around performance marketing is like make money easily it's like make money through online spend 100 bucks make 10x i think that narrative should be more you know that should be gone low and see that only happens when there is a loyalty to your product and the brand when there is an organic reach which people are already using your product then you spend money either meta pushes it when you have an organic reach you can just directly can't go and spend money on meta ads and ask meta to give you customers I think this should be more you know spread as an awareness to D2C founders is what I feel Nur: So It is still possible. I can go in from day one and do it do Metaca Google Ads. But here's the thing. I may get those sales. Maybe it's not as good as it used to be four years ago because of what the economic situation is, especially in North America, but I will still get something. But am I going to build a brand that is something I love? Abhishek: Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Nur: Love is if I love it, like for example, there's a brand called Masimo Dhoti. Okay, it's from the same company. I love Masimo Doti, right? So I will buy it even if there's no sale. Can I reach next level? That is what you know you have to look at. Now yes. Alo, Alo is there. Aloe Aloe is rivals to Lululemon. Abhishek: Yeah, I know. Yeah. legendary brands. I love that. Right. Nur: Okay. It's in the same athleture sort of ⁓ category. And Aloe has taken North America by storm. And I don't recall if ever seeing an ad about some sale or offer or something like that for Aloe. Maybe during Christmas or Black Friday. But not, you know not no, yeah, it's not that I can Abhishek: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know. I don't think that is done in house. Black Friday sales or like Christmas sales are promoted by distributors, not through alo directly is what I think. Nur: ⁓ through their website? Yes they have actually. On their website they do. But then even then like it's like these are brands that they don't need those sales to survive or you know to to get that. Lululemon is in that phase where a lot of their s their pro I was just reading about it last week. One of their problems is that they're Abhishek: Okay, ⁓ Obviously, ⁓ Mmm. Nur: Unfortunately, they've become a lot promotion focused now because that's how they're getting their inventory ⁓ cleared. So that's also a red flag. Allo is still not there. So this is how I think what D2C founders need to know. Take it. I know you want we need there is pressure to get everything started from day one, but take a step back. Think about how all these brands grew. Abhishek: I'm more into numbers now. Understood. Nur: Rome wasn't built on a day. Abhishek: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll tell you a way which is happening in India right now. have been Indian consumers have been more Western inspired people. We were always wanted to wear Western brands. When I was, can you take me a decade ago, I was more a Western inspired teenager. I want to wear Levi's or I want to wear something like that. But now the shift has become that Indian origin brands making it Indianized as in Western ⁓ work ⁓ language. I'll tell you few street wear brands which have hit 10 million dollar revenues. It's like two to three years. It's called J walking blue orange. ⁓ There are two street wear brands that have ⁓ rapidly grown in India, being built in India. What do you think of that shift if every country shifts to this wave? Is there capability of global capturing of markets if everything, everybody needs, mean every country wants something which is being built in their own country. Nur: There is a great appetite for this because the way I look at it is we all like to hear different stories and we all get bored of the same what we've seen all all this while as group growing up. So if your brand is able to communicate and give sell that story. Abhishek: Hmm. Yeah. Nur: I think that that would that would go leaps and bounds. And there is this is the best time for these Indian brands to go global and make that impact beyond just a Manish Malhotra. Like ⁓ you can check out this D2C apparel brand called Rasta. Have you heard of them? RAA? Yeah, Rasta. R A A S T A. It was founded by this ⁓ Pakistani. Abhishek: Yeah. ⁓ rasta. Nur: think he was based in America I believe. he grew his apparel company in a way that his story was very unique. The way he his social media and then you know the way like when you get the apparel so there is some you know there's a nice like paper that talks about you know the origin about what Rasta is what it means Abhishek: Okay. Mm-hmm. Hmm. see the website. Yes. Yes. Nur: And a lot of ⁓ a lot of big celebrities actually ended up sporting their brand. So it's actually quite ph phenomenal. So there is so whether it's jaywalking, ⁓ you said blue orange, these guys are sitting there is potential because people want to hear that story and Abhishek: you Mmm. Market's outside, yeah. Nur: And you know, big brands like Prada are understanding it because the Kolha Puri Chapal was something they they recently promoted. Why? Why do you need that? Because people might want to understand something that's unconventional and just that's something that's very genuine and not just came up through PR. Abhishek: Thank Yeah, they warned you. very localized and feel that it is ours, that personalization, we precise. Nur: Yeah. Yes. Bishek, sorry, I would have to say I have a I know I I said ten forty five, but I have something at eleven. So I would have to ⁓ Abhishek: No worries, worries. I think we really had a very good conversation, whatever we had. And we'll do it another time. We'll do our next part two maybe in the near future. you know, just say something, if you have something to say to the audience, just say it and you know, we can close the call. Nur: ⁓ thank you and Abhishek, this was very invaluable for me. I learned from you like how hunger and aspirations can really lead to something. So it's it's motivation for me. As I want to learn everywhere. So ⁓ I would want to keep in touch, let me know. And I'm just something between you and me. I'm happy to in any ways in any capacity help you with Abhishek: My pleasure. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. high shot Nur: unconditionally for if you want with regards to whittle block. Whittle back? Did I get that? Yeah. Whittle back. Whittle block. In anyways, right? So Abhishek: Thank you. Yeah, yeah. Whittles back. Whittles back. Thank you. Thank you, Niran. You always, I mean, you feel like, I mean, you always been very, I mean, the way you be texted before, when even I had trouble, you, you know, you understood. Thanks for that. And I think you become a friend for me. I'll stay in touch with you. Thank you. Thanks for your time today. Thank you, have a great day.