Abhishek: Can you see a timer on your arm?

Santushti Tyagi: Yes, I could see.

Abhishek: I can't see it. Is it on? It's done? The timer? Yeah. Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of Vigil's Pod. Today we have Santosh T with us, founder of Pucky. You know, I really, before the call, I was appreciating her, what she was doing with Pucky and let us hear her story of Pucky and why she has started it. Hello Santosh T. I mean, thanks for joining us.

Santushti Tyagi: Yes, it is, it is. Thank you so much, Abhishek. I am really glad I could have this opportunity to talk to you. And ⁓ yes, so I will tell you ⁓ briefly about what PAKI is. So Paki we're building PAKI as a feminine hygiene and wellness brand. And ⁓ since you asked a little about my journey, so the idea behind PAKI started from way back when I was training as athlete and also as a schoolgirl.

Abhishek: measure as well. Yes. ⁓ Okay.

Santushti Tyagi: ⁓ apart from ⁓ the ideas of breaking taboos and ⁓ how difficult it is to talk about something as ⁓ biological as menstruation and periods in school and in school teams for that matter, there's one more gap that I noticed. ⁓ we've been using

Abhishek: you I

Santushti Tyagi: Products that have been handed over to us by our mothers or elder sisters. I started menstruating at the age of 13 and I was handed over a pad by my mom, and that is what I've been using for the past 10 years. And ⁓ to be very honest, now that I sit in a lot of rooms and have these conversations, I realized that this is something that every other person, every other girl is facing. They have a similar story. But

Abhishek: Right. Yeah. ⁓ huh. Mm. Yeah.

Santushti Tyagi: Way ⁓ we've been conditioned to just keep using the kind of products for our intimate health and not question what that there could be a better option. That is when the idea of Paki started. So ⁓ give you a little context that since we know that the skincare and hair care market is booming at a tremendous rate, and ⁓ we keep questioning about another better product for my skin, another better product for my hair. But why are ⁓

Abhishek: you Right. Yeah.

Santushti Tyagi: questions about ⁓ what goes to the most sensitive part of your body. Right. So that is from the product aspect of PAKI. So we are building ⁓ safe bamboo-based ⁓ products and we've started with ⁓ bamboo sanitary pads under Paki and ⁓ that's another product. And apart from product, we are ⁓ focusing on my prime focus is to build strong women-led communities where we ⁓ not just talk about products or resources, but also open conversations where I can sit and talk to those women in safe space.

Abhishek: Yeah. Right.

Santushti Tyagi: Just like I could talk to my elder sister or my mom or my friend. So that is our idea from the community perspective.

Abhishek: Right. Right. Right. And I also see that you are a cricketer. I've seen a picture of you. Nice. You are an all rounder then. So I mean, ⁓ my question was that, know, the D2C wave in India was into skincare or there was protein wave or there was fiber wave. It is mostly into wellness that is there, but either into fitness or like, you know, skincare. But

Santushti Tyagi: Yeah, I used I used to play cricket, yes.

Abhishek: What is that thought, you know, made you to take that call? Because it says that nobody's into that market. It means there's something wrong in it or there is a problem in entering into the market. So that gut feeling that this is going to work and there is a problem. What is that point which made you to feel to start for key?

Santushti Tyagi: See, ⁓ since you mentioned ⁓ correctly F and Bay and even in the cosmetic wellness space, may there's a lot of innovation going because we we are looking for products that make us feel good and look good, right? But there was a certain gap that I felt even when we talk about legacy brands in the menstrual hygiene space and even the new ones, right? So ⁓ starting with the idea of giving better products to the women is one thing. And

Abhishek: Exactly.

Santushti Tyagi: Going back to the roots and thinking, why is there no innovation in a way that why are we not educating them to understand that there could be better things for you? Just like you check ingredients in your skincare and your hair care. Why not think about what goes into the most sensitive part of your body, like I said, right? So that is one gap. And the reason that you ask why is there comparatively less innovation going on? Yeah, there is still an education gap.

Abhishek: Bye. Yeah.

Santushti Tyagi: Is because that is because of a conditioning b that it is a long-term process, it is not going to happen in one day. We have to create just one room of 10 women, we have to create similar hundred rooms of 10 women each, and that multiplies, right? So ⁓ even I'll tell you a personal story that I have not

Abhishek: Right. Right.

Santushti Tyagi: ⁓ had this conversation with my mom or my elder sister for years since I started menstruating. That if I'm using this pad which has plastic in it, why is that so? And ⁓ to make it more simpler for you to understand, if I am getting rashes every month of my period cycle, and I am told to believe that you have to make make it work. It it happens, it's normal. But why is that normal? That struck me after 10 years of 15 years of menstruating and

Abhishek: Mmm. right right right right right yeah.

Santushti Tyagi: I think this would have been the thought of multiple people who are working in the space. But why was there no action taken in terms of educating girls and young girls and women? Ki you can have better product, so you can just look out for it. The same questions you ask for other things that you use. So that is how.

Abhishek: And you say that all the women out there are facing the same problem.

Santushti Tyagi: Exactly, exactly.

Abhishek: then I mean I didn't know this and I am really awestruck with this and how are they you know you know why are they do I mean trying to you know get adjusted to it why is this why there is no other option or like why are they not putting it out

Santushti Tyagi: Yes. ⁓ yes. So ⁓ now that you've brought it up, I'll tell you. My other co-founders, ⁓ the men in the team. So we've when we started having these conversations, so ⁓ we came up with the idea, I shared a few problems that we've been facing, and they kept asking a problem hai. Then ⁓ bring me more women who say the same. And the more because I knew it, it had it there was a problem. We used to talk among friends, we used to talk in the family, but as a

Abhishek: Yeah.

Santushti Tyagi: As a man, I have to tell them that okay, this is actually a problem. So we started talking more about it. And then we realized that every other person we talked to, they knew that they have been adjusting. Right? So the first reason is taboo that conversations are already very less around this topic. Although I would I'm really happy when I say this that there are a lot of brands and a lot of movements, a lot of NGOs that have started having these conversations, not just in closed

Abhishek: Right. Right, oops, one second, I think this. Is it right now? Am I visible?

Santushti Tyagi: Rooms, but also across institutions. This has been this is starting to become dinner table conversations as well in a lot of houses, but the gaps still reside. And the fact that I mentioned this is that when there are more people working in the same space, trying to make a difference, trying to create ⁓ and begin conversations in the same ⁓ space, that becomes a win-win for us as well because it makes our work easier and that is what we are striving towards.

Abhishek: Santosh T, are you still there in the call? Hello.

Santushti Tyagi: Hello.

Abhishek: Hello?

Santushti Tyagi: Yes, yes, I lost you.

Abhishek: Yes. I mean there was a power cut. I mean that that was from my side. Yeah. Yeah. No worries. I mean it gets recorded and gets saved. No worries. We can we can s I mean, pause it as many times as possible. That's not an issue. Yeah, sorry for cutting you you can continue. Yeah.

Santushti Tyagi: Okay, all right, no way. All right. Continue.

Abhishek: We have stopped it at a place where, you know, ⁓ there was this problem and people were not putting it out.

Santushti Tyagi: ⁓ I'm sorry, Abhishek, you'll have to come again. ⁓ there's still some disturbance.

Abhishek: Am I one second? This is pretty good. Is it clear? Sorry, sorry for that. Sorry for that. So yeah, we were stuck at, mean, you were telling that a lot of people had the same problem when your co-founders were asking, but then they didn't put it out. Yes, you can continue. Yeah.

Santushti Tyagi: Yes, yes, yes, but it's okay, no problem. Yes. And ⁓ yes, so with that story and the idea of now that I'm having a conversation with you and the conversation that I have with my co-founders as well. So one more thing that comes up with it. So we run a flagship under PACI called the Red Talk, where we go to institutions and take gender inclusive sessions on menstrual hygiene, right? So my first experience, ⁓ one more thing that I would like to add that ⁓ ever since my school time, I had started an organization because I wanted to do something in this space. ⁓

Abhishek: Okay.

Santushti Tyagi: Ever since. So we collected a group of friends and family, ⁓ used our pocket money to arrange sanitary napkins and do an awareness and distribution drive. So that was that was my first move. ⁓ first that was the first time I got exposed to the idea of how privileged we are that at least we are able to have these conversations in our homes. Because if I quote the exact words that were life-changing for me, it was when ⁓ I went to a nearby slum where I live in NCR, we knocked on

Abhishek: Okay. Nice.

Santushti Tyagi: The first door, and the idea was to distribute sanitary napkins, right? Which I thought it would be just this easy that I would collect my friends, go there, talk to them, and give them sanitary napkins if we've got something for you, and they'd be happy. But ⁓ what stayed with me was when I asked them periods, so ⁓ to say in Hindi Mahavari, so ⁓ as a as a 15-year-old, I what I expected was kapra either pad, if not pad, then kapra. Okay, use ⁓ the cloth, the idea of using cloth during menstruation, right?

Abhishek: world. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Santushti Tyagi: But ⁓ to my surprise, ⁓ the mother of two daughters, along with her two daughters, they said Kuchnahi. And I was like, Kuchnahi matlov. So ⁓ it was just like that. They just stayed in bed, they kept washing their clothes. So it was I did not know what to say, right? I was a 15-year-old, I did not know how to react, I took some time.

Abhishek: Yeah.

Santushti Tyagi: ⁓ read more about it, asked elders and went to a few people people that I trusted ki how to take this conversation forward. That was my first ⁓ interaction that changed my life and ever since I have been inclined towards working in this space. And to come back to the idea of having conversations with the other gender. So when we started the Red Doc, I started approaching schools personally. And when we had these conversations with the educators of the even the management, the educators or the principal, they themselves were very reluctant in including boys in the conversations. So there are a like I said, there are a lot of brands and NGOs and people who are working in the space, which makes us really happy, more than happy, because our work is getting done divided by so

Abhishek: Hmm.

Santushti Tyagi: Many people and also altogether by so many people. So that is an amazing feeling. But when you see that ⁓ people at such ⁓ higher positions and at management levels and in institutions are reluctant to include boys in these conversations, which is so important. So that is where we need an extra push. And I will be happy to say that even when we approach to 50 schools and we are able to convert 10 schools into agreeing that we would okay, we would do a gender-inclusive session from grade five and above.

Abhishek: Yeah. Yeah. And ⁓

Santushti Tyagi: So that is also something we're doing. So the changes, small changes begin from grassroot levels and from early schooling, because these girls when we they'll grow up and they'll be at a stage that they pay their own bills, right? So they will be aware that we have to make informed choices. So that is something that we're doing.

Abhishek: Right. Yeah. Right. Do you really think that still exists or I mean you said it was in your school days when you approached them. Do you think that is still existing?

Santushti Tyagi: The gap? Definitely, definitely. We are privileged enough to sit in our AC rooms and ⁓ our boardrooms meetings when we're building products and creating a D to C brand and everything, but there are still people and not just in rural India. Even

Abhishek: Yeah. Yeah.

Santushti Tyagi: Jaha privileged ⁓ pla places and environments may upne ⁓ locality. Use kilometer slam hoga, there would be a similar situation. And we need more people to put work into it and understand that it is not just a one place problem. It is happening all over the country and in different spaces. It's just that we are not aware or we are not taking action. That is it.

Abhishek: Was it an economical hit or is it economy which is not letting them to take the step of buying a pad or was it like they are not used to it?

Santushti Tyagi: Yeah. Yes, I'll tell you. ⁓ see economy is one. And the other aspect of it is again education and awareness. So ⁓ the family that we're talking about, for example, there still see we made a difference for one family, right? There would be hundred more. And if I am able to tap 15 more out of those, there are still families. Jahapur, there was no person who has reached out to them and told their girl child or the mother themselves that this is something that. you have to be aware about and you this is something that so ⁓ I'll give you an example. So ⁓ when we I when we went out to have conversations as a part of our ⁓ participatory research qualitative research so we sit and talk to women just like their ⁓ daughters or their elder sisters would do. So we get to know menstrual ⁓ health

Abhishek: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Yeah.

Santushti Tyagi: Is not important. It is like I'll tell you it just I'll tell you the exact words also. Like it's just that ⁓ the girl has started menstruating, she can give birth to babies. That is it. That is it. That is where their understanding stops, and that is the change we want to bring. Yes, economy is another issue because you have to spend to buy a pad, but ⁓ there are a few places where

Abhishek: Yeah, yeah.

Santushti Tyagi: Affordable pads, affordable menstrual hygiene, all of these things are taking place. But you would only go to a pharmacy and ask for that pad which is ⁓ affordable and ⁓ is available only when you are aware. So that is the major gap that exists.

Abhishek: Hmm. And I'm in shock right now. I didn't even know that this really exists in the market. I mean, what are governments doing for this? mean, because if it is an economical problem, they, there are no schemes that governments are doing for this. I mean, it is a very big issue that women go under.

Santushti Tyagi: Hm. ⁓ no, it's it's not like the government is not doing, but What they they see, you are aware of the ⁓ Angan Wadi culture, right? So Angan Wadi's have been set up. There are also ⁓ free ⁓ products and free services available for their checkups, and ⁓ there is there are also Jan Oshadi Kendra, where they have affordable menstrual care products. There's also one more thing, if you've read about it, there was also a Supreme Court ruling where ⁓ they've asked all the institutions to have free sanitary napkins for the girls, for the girls in the schools, right? So

Abhishek: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh-huh.

Santushti Tyagi: There the there there are things that are happening, but see educational Yeah, these exist because conversations, rooms, conversations and people taking initiatives to hold these conversations. That is where change will actually take place.

Abhishek: still there is excess. I know. Right, right. I'll tell you one use case that I remember a glimpse of it when I was a kid and I was asked to bring a pad for my mom when I've gone to a medical store and they've given that to me in a wrapped newspaper. didn't know why is that because see when I go to that particular store when I get something else like some chocolate or like some something else it was like open eyes to bring it home any other thing but why is this being grabbed I didn't even know then but I didn't I don't even know why are they doing that was it what it is not something wrong that you can I mean I still don't understand that fact as a girl what what is your POV on that

Santushti Tyagi: So ⁓ this is conditioning, first thing, that we have been conditioned that way to think about it. So, like like like you mentioned the wrapping up of newspaper around a sanitary pad back. I'll tell you if you go to a medical store and ask him for a condom, they might not think about wrapping it in a newspaper, but up pads mango they'll either ⁓ suggest you a black policy. So I'll tell you this happened with me also. ⁓

Abhishek: Exactly.

Santushti Tyagi: When we were doing our research part for ⁓ taking the product ahead for packaging and also we used to collect a lot of samples, right? And I used to go personally to see what is there in the market, where's the gap, what is the structure of the packaging, how to make it more ⁓ how to innovate it in a way that it is easy for women to carry in everything, all of it.

Abhishek: Hmm.

Santushti Tyagi: So ⁓ when I took the pad, I took it, paid ⁓ using UPI and I was just leaving. So he's told me, Madam G Black Polythe neighbor yeah. I was just trying to have a conversation. And

Abhishek: Mm.

Santushti Tyagi: He did not have an answer to it. He did not sit and explain me. But ⁓ he's ⁓ so that these are small things that keep happening, but ⁓ it always ⁓ one person cannot bring a change, but obviously one person can create a chain of people who will eventually create a change. So, yes.

Abhishek: Mmm. Is it an Indian issue or do you think it globally exists?

Santushti Tyagi: See the idea of ⁓ wrapping up in a newspaper and ⁓ not holding conversations and

Abhishek: that and also not holding conversation. are both here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Santushti Tyagi: And making it a hush hush topic if we talk about it, right? Whispering about it and ⁓ hush conversations, not talking to your father about it. So in India predominantly because ⁓ I hope you were aware of the idea of not letting women go inside temples ⁓ while they are menstruating. So these are a few things that ⁓

Abhishek: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Santushti Tyagi: Is experienced in India from ⁓ urban households to rural households from grassroots to the ⁓ upper levels of the chain. But ⁓ I would specifically talk of India because we are ⁓ constantly in conversations and trying to bring a change around it. This is also ⁓ Experienced globally, but the way ⁓ we have been conditioned for it, it it's far different than how it has been globally. So, ⁓ and also since we ⁓ brought up the idea of going to temples, I would like to talk. So we had a session in ⁓ one of the ⁓

Abhishek: globally.

Santushti Tyagi: Army cantonment areas for the women of the ⁓ Javan wives. So we were ⁓ holding a safe space of around 80 plus women, and we had these conversations, and these are happen these are mostly done in Hindi, ⁓ in easy languages for them to understand, and also open conversations. So ⁓ there were a couple of women who stood up and said, mandir nahi jaste or kana nahibanasate. Kitchen men hi ja satte when

Abhishek: Okay. Okay. Hmm.

Santushti Tyagi: Jabham Mari periods children. So I asked why. So they said, I I mean I knew the answer. They would say, Yeah, we are not pure ⁓ during that time of the month. So, see, this idea of ⁓ not going to temples started with the concept of ⁓ giving women rest when they are on their periods in that time of the month.

Abhishek: Mmm. So, I'm actually... Yeah, yeah.

Santushti Tyagi: Usko iste condition kardiya giac that eventually women were made to believe that they're impure and they cannot go. The idea of ⁓ giving their body rest was how it started, and how it changed to not letting them go there because they are impure. So, this is how things ⁓ change, and this is how the conditioning happens, and when this story will be heard by my five-year-old brother.

Abhishek: Yeah.

Santushti Tyagi: He would think that this is true and then he would tell to five more friends and then when a female friend of theirs in fifth standard will start menstruating, they would stay a red s see a red stain and panic and make fun of her. So this is a chain of events that keep happening.

Abhishek: Right. ⁓ And coming to the product side, do you think it's an Indian issue or a global issue of not keeping up to the standards? And what is that particular, you know, on the product side that you guys have worked on to make it more better and talk us about the product? Because we have stopped. mean, this side of the story is making me a little bit emotional, but let's just talk about the product side.

Santushti Tyagi: I know, I know. Right. So, ⁓ to begin with, I would like to tell you a little about ⁓ the kind of menstrual health products that we have. ⁓ so there are a lot of brands, ⁓ a lot of legacy brands who have made their mark and captured the market ⁓ for years, right? And that is what This is one example to what I started and start talked about in the beginning that your moms hand over the products that you are supposed to use when you start menstruating. Okay, so these products have been there, these brands have been there ever since your mom and your grandmom started menstruating. Right? ⁓ that is one thing. So ⁓ second is the new age brands that are coming and the idea of organic in all spaces, say F and B, cosmetic wellness, and now menstrual health. This is because the consumers are becoming aware, more aware about it. So this is

Abhishek: Yeah. Hmm. Yeah.

Santushti Tyagi: Is ⁓ quite booming right now. Talking about our products, right? ⁓ there is one product-related gap that we saw is that ⁓ there the all the legacy brands and the other products that we have in the market right now, they are quite focused on ⁓ giving women what they've already been ⁓ using, right? So, our sanitary pads, maximum of the sanitary pads that are available in the market, they have plastic layers in it. So ⁓ this is what women have been using for a long time. Now for the past ⁓ I would say decade, people are becoming more aware about what goes inside their body. So there are more organic products coming in. What we when we were looking for ⁓ Paki, when we were looking for products, I wanted to see what works better for me. The first, first ⁓ thing that we wanted to do. So I we did not think about how will we ⁓ how will the supply chain work, how will we make it available in the market.

Abhishek: Okay. Yeah.

Santushti Tyagi: What would be the channels that we'll be targeting? We do the first step was just to see key what works for Santushti, right? What feels better when I use it. So that is when we cracked the idea of bamboo sanitary napkins. And ⁓ there are a lot of cotton-based sanitary pads available in the market. We wanted to go with bamboo, we tried and tested it. And bamboo, because it absorbs more, it has more absorption capacity. ⁓ the structure of the pad that we have has a wider back for better coverage. ⁓ we ⁓ also focus on ⁓ USP of Rs that is the any strip in the middle of the pad that is an antibacterial strip ⁓ that helps fight bacteria and also improves absorption of the pad. So that is one thing. Now I was I was thinking about why no one else has thought about it. So why Legacy brands like Whisper and Stay Free not doing it when we have this available. So one reason was that they have ⁓ the supply chain, large manufacturing setups. And the major point was that the effort that goes into educating women that why you need to switch to better. So FNP maybe, there are a lot of better for you categories that are coming up.

Abhishek: Yeah, yeah. Mm. Yeah.

Santushti Tyagi: Right, which makes the consumer realize that this is better for you, so you switch. But in the in a category like ours, to teach women to switch for what's better for them as compared to what they have been conditioned in a way it's working for us, it is manageable. So on the product side, also, ⁓ similar to what the community side and the awareness side we're doing, we want women to understand that this is better for you. And you have to know that the kind of incredible decision makers that you are for the other products that you use, you have to be that side of you when you think of menstrual health and your intimate health. So that is what we're doing. So we started with our ⁓ when we launched, we started, we made it available.

Abhishek: Yeah. night. Tell me your first customer's review and when did you found that there is a product market fit.

Santushti Tyagi: Yes. Yeah. Ha, so ⁓ it started with community only. So friends, family, friends of friends, we sent out our products, we asked how did they like it, and before putting it out in the market, of course. So ⁓ the the time the moment I felt like okay, ⁓ we've got it right now after so many ⁓ to and fro is when women, multiple women, told us that

Abhishek: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Santushti Tyagi: Now I think I don't think I can go back to plastic bags. I did not know that my ⁓ I could feel this slight and I won't get rashes in those six days or seven days or five days of my periods. I I can ⁓ get up and move and I don't have to worry about I will get a rash, for example. Or ⁓ it feels better from the inside. That is when I realize that okay, I think we are ready, let's make it available for other people.

Abhishek: Hmm. Yeah. Right.

Santushti Tyagi: So these were the kinds of because rashes is one thing that I see when like you mentioned I used to play cricket. So w even when we ⁓ we had our fifty over matches, right? You have to even if I used to play ⁓ open. I used to open for the team. So ⁓ when you're on your periods and you also have to play a ma play you have to bat the overs and then you have to come back for fielding.

Abhishek: Mm. Mm.

Santushti Tyagi: And you are on your periods and you're using a pad that's giving you rashes, that is ⁓ very uncomfortable. So your brain constantly goes back to ⁓ I should not get a stain, or if I get a rash, I cannot take that run. Maybe I should score boundaries and not run. So this is this is something I kept thinking about, and I still think about it. Key, ⁓ this is the problem that we have to solve first, and then we have to think about how to build a business around it.

Abhishek: Right. I want to go a little bit deep into it. mean, our use case. ⁓ Is it like itchy when you walk or is it like itchy when you run? How does that?

Santushti Tyagi: Yeah, so ⁓ if I tell you how it feels, I'll break it down for you. ⁓ when you are on your periods, so you ⁓ put on the pad and you are going around for your with your daily activities just like you do on the usual days. So the inner thighs get

Abhishek: Yeah.

Santushti Tyagi: Rashes because of friction that is developed, because there's sweat when you move around, there's also blood, and the product that you have put in has plastic in it. So it altogether become makes it very uncomfortable to work throughout the day, and you get red rashes that don't go away in a day or two. You have to end your period cycle, and that's when you get rid of it. So that is the issue.

Abhishek: Mm. Right, when you say this, only everyday experience I felt was my plastic brush. You know, I used to use a plastic brush but then I shifted it to a carbon brush right now or a bamboo based brush. That is what, you know, the difference for me but the difference that you guys are making is very deep and know, very sensitive is what

Santushti Tyagi: So ⁓ I would also like to add something. ⁓ now relate your experience to ⁓ how maybe your girlfriend or your mom or your sister would be ⁓ facing when they're having issues. You would you're just talking about a brush and but when they're moving, even when they're walking ⁓ on their periods and they're uncomfortable. ⁓ so yeah, that is

Abhishek: be really honest, I didn't have this conversation with either my mom, my girlfriend or like sister till now till date and I didn't even know this they go through this problem. Yeah. Now I'll go back and send you send your website to them. And what ⁓ who are your competitors and what are you seeing for the growth of Pocky in the next coming years? ⁓

Santushti Tyagi: Maybe maybe change begins that's how change begins. And maybe now you go back and talk to them about it. Definitely. Yes. Hm.

Abhishek: in the industry are you targeting the global markets what is the vision on the product side

Santushti Tyagi: So ⁓ on the product side, right now we have begun like I mentioned, begun with ⁓ bamboo based sanitary pads and The vision is to make PACI a one-stop solution for all menstrual and intimate health products and also on the product side and also a safe space women-led community where we hold conversations. So, ⁓ with that, I would also like to ⁓ tell you that when we were planning our go-to-market strategy, we did not think about ⁓ directly ⁓ focusing on advertising or ⁓ directly putting our products out.

Abhishek: We direct you to go to the...

Santushti Tyagi: There and running ads. I wanted to start with community first, right? So, in the long run, also right now we are we are very small community. Eventually, we build the network, we cover Pan India, we go to different places, hold these safe spaces, and the channels predominantly are, for example, ⁓ women-only workshops, or ⁓ there are ⁓

Abhishek: Yeah, yeah. Thank

Santushti Tyagi: We do ⁓ activities over the weekend. Maybe we go for a fun run and then we create these sessions in a way that it's all women. We do an activity together, we sit, hold conversations, and that's how they ⁓ discover parky. Rather than going the other way around, and they come across the product first and then they figure it out whether I should trust it or not. So from trust to product to expansion of products, that's how we're doing it right now. And what else were you asking? Yes, the competition.

Abhishek: Yeah. Mm. Right. Bye. ⁓

Santushti Tyagi: Competitors. So, ⁓ like I mentioned, the market. So I'll tell you a small story also. When we started with the idea of PACI and building a product in the menstrual health space, there were a lot of questions that came up with ⁓ the market is already saturated and we already have so many products. Why a new one? Why do you want to enter a market that is already ⁓ captured by legacy brands? So that is where we come in.

Abhishek: Yeah. Mm. you Hmm. Right. Right.

Santushti Tyagi: ⁓ so I would say our competitors are not the legacy brands that have made a mark in the market because ⁓ what we're doing is completely different. So ⁓ some other brands that are doing really well and also ⁓ are our comp direct competitors, I would say ⁓ NUA.

Abhishek: Mm-hmm.

Santushti Tyagi: If you're aware, ⁓ they are working again on cotton sanitary napkins. We have started with bamboo and we'll be working around the way with it. ⁓ there are a couple more. There's P-Safe. They started with their hero product, ⁓ which was a toilet spray, and then they ⁓ but our hero product is again a sanitary pad, and then we make our way around it. So these are some of those. And we have plush as well. They are also working with cotton sanitary napkins and also the conventional ones.

Abhishek: Okay. Music? Yeah, music I know. Yeah. Bye. Nice. I mean you're going to a case of you know giving the awareness of using a pad and converting them as a customer or are you trying to you know convert and give them awareness of what are they exactly using and convert them to your product. Is it like the first place you're going or the second case?

Santushti Tyagi: So yes. Yeah. So I would ⁓ confidently say it's the latter. ⁓ we want to, I know it will take a little more time and I knew it the moment we decided that we wanted to do it this way. But any which way, we want to create a sustainable ecosystem where it is not a one-time try-product. Yes, it's great, it's good for my body. I felt good. And I then I went back to the conventional ones because I have been conditioned and I have adapted to it. No, we wanted to go the we want to go the other way, the latter that you mentioned. They have to be aware because that is how change will actually come.

Abhishek: on questions. there. Yeah.

Santushti Tyagi: Otherwise, it will just be another gimmicky thing on the internet where you just ⁓ give them the product. And that is not what we are wanting to do.

Abhishek: I understood, understood and I think you are an IIT graduate if I not wrong. No. No. Okay. I mean I seen a picture of IIT Kanpur so I thought you you.

Santushti Tyagi: ⁓ no, I mean I went there ⁓ I went there for a competition or

Abhishek: Okay, okay nice. So if you take us through your background, is this your first startup and what were you doing before this? And if you have to give an advice to someone who wants to get into this space or a wellness space or as an entrepreneur, what is your advice to them?

Santushti Tyagi: so if I take you back to what I have been into. ⁓ and that is exactly how PACE came into being. It's all personal experiences and also trying my hands on a lot of things. So I start my major turning point, like I mentioned, was when I started working in the menstrual hygiene space. And it and the best part is that it came came to me very naturally when we I I had an organization of my own, a nonprofit organization, ⁓ where we

Abhishek: It's my... Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Santushti Tyagi: It was mostly student led where we collected and ⁓ made a lot of school students join us to work in the space. ⁓ it was called Zaria back then. ⁓ that is where it started. I then I moved to college. I have studied from Dalatram College, University of Delhi.

Abhishek: Mm-hmm.

Santushti Tyagi: where I was involved in a lot of things apart from the creative aspects, ⁓ working with the national service team and then working with the entrepreneurship cell to see so the I the PAKI parky already started taking shape when I was still in college and ⁓ eventually right after it we started executing it and my experience as an athlete also because ⁓ see ⁓ if you think about it then the category where we the category we are working in the

Abhishek: Thank you.

Santushti Tyagi: of routines that women have are women athletes if I talk about it physically right so they have a rigorous physical ⁓ rigorous physical routines they are training they are going back on their grounds and all

Abhishek: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've seen a recent video of Smriti Mandana, know, she runs in the middle of the ⁓ match and wears a pad here.

Santushti Tyagi: Talking about yes. Yeah. She had to ⁓ talk to the umpire and then there was also Jamima Rodrigues also did talk about ⁓ periods and her experiences with playing representing India while being on her periods. So that is when I realized that if we ⁓ if we are able to create a product and if we're able to create an ecosystem where we have cragged

Abhishek: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Santushti Tyagi: How we can make it easy and comfortable for women athletes, we are able to solve it for the women in the world. That was my approach. And ⁓ what else did you ask? Yes. So ⁓ the one thing that I would like to speak, especially for women who are building from scratch, is that have a strong vision and know that you are adding value.

Abhishek: I'm

Santushti Tyagi: Because like I mentioned, if I had decided to go the other way around, and even if I decide to pivot today and go the other way around, that I give them, give people my product, use it. And rather than creating a sustainable ecosystem, it would be another gimmicky thing on the internet right now. Because ⁓ I have noticed everyone's in b everyone is building in public and most of the times it is looking very

Abhishek: Yeah.

Santushti Tyagi: glorifying from the outside, but it's actually not and there's a lot of things that happens at the back end of it. And at the end of the day, when you have to remind yourself that you're going the right way, you have to big build value and you have to has a have a strong vision to build. That is it from my end.

Abhishek: Yeah. yeah i think ⁓ what you said actually makes sense it's not just a six months or 12 months you create videos about it and post it and you know get followers and then there is no product then there's no value out of it it's a big struggle that you're going to face in the market but yeah tell me continue continue

Santushti Tyagi: Yeah. And even yes. ⁓ I even I personally ⁓ face this because see when you're building you go online, you see people who are also building in public and you ⁓ try to get motivation. So you you'll get motivation online one day and the other day when you feel like the other person has just a small example, the other person has posted ten reels about cracking this, cracking that and all of it. But You don't know the backstory, right? You don't know how ⁓ something as simple as ⁓ delayed shipment that couldn't reach on time stresses you out and you can't sleep at night. So I think people who are ⁓ this is for you as well, people like you, people like me, other people who are building and sharing their stories online, we need to be a little more vulnerable online also, because young girls, young people who are trying to build it from scratch, they have to know the right story.

Abhishek: I am. Exactly, it's not I agree with that. I agree with that you have I mean I always keep it very natural, you know This is my fifth year of being an entrepreneur and I am still hustling every day as I started in the first day and The first day when I started in the I thought by three years I'll be a millionaire. It didn't happen after that I thought in on fifth year. Maybe I would be a millionaire. It didn't happen So it is what it is It is not easy. I be vocal about it. I be very vocal about it and I don't agree with short term gains or short term successes. It's okay. They have cracked. Maybe they had something which is going right, but it is not at all possible in all of our cases. It takes 10 years of time. I would be very clear on it.

Santushti Tyagi: Exactly. And And when you when the vision is so big, when you want really want to bring about a change in people's lives, impact, create impact. So it is a long run game. And that's why we're in it.

Abhishek: Impact. For me, impact is saving business owners, business owners not losing their ad budget. That is my impact on, as an entrepreneur right now which I'm building. For you, an impact on the society, on women, taking care of the health, that is a different impact. So there should be a story that why are you doing this? You can't be like it's only for money. ⁓ I was...

Santushti Tyagi: Yeah. Exactly.

Abhishek: pay for money in the first year, it didn't happen. Three years I wasted going behind money. So I see a lot of people say that money follows but impact is the first thing that you have to make in the society or like in whatever you're doing.

Santushti Tyagi: Exactly. I would like to ⁓ know a little more about ⁓

Abhishek: Yeah, so basically when as a D2C brand owner you run ads on meta Google or you in the US markets you run it on TikTok when there are hundreds of assets and hundreds of creatives and you're spending more than I would say this problem arises when you are spending more than $3,000 a month which is close to three lakh rupees more and above. So the tracking of your ad systems crack you cannot manage them every day. So

Santushti Tyagi: Okay.

Abhishek: whenever you delegate it to a marketeer or you yourself when you set up an ad campaign you come back to it after the fifth or the sixth day and check it what's going on right by that time the crack on the algorithm happened and you lost money of all the days which few ads don't run well and few ads do well so this ads which are not running well are costing you money every day so we are building an agentic AI where it detects those and either notifies you or it goes itself and fixes it. So it's an action taker. Either it can be a creative issue or it can be an analytical issue. It shows you the issue and asks you, hey, you have to go fix it. it gets, I mean, when you get a mail or like a message, something is wrong, you'll go fix it and you'll not lose money. And your return on ad spend optimizes a lot. So that's what we do.

Santushti Tyagi: Okay. Okay, great, great. So it it it it it tells you where you're lacking and also fixes it for you, right?

Abhishek: Yes, yes, it's basically. Exactly. So, and it has an MCP. You can also connect your video generation AI model or like a static generation AI model because it knows who is your target audience and what are you building. You can connect the MCP and create campaigns and creatives or videos out of it and you can run the campaigns on Meta, Google and TikTok.

Santushti Tyagi: Okay, okay. And is it out in public for ⁓ okay.

Abhishek: ⁓ Currently it's in beta version. We are just onboarding few brands and making it more better. We'll be out in public in like three to four weeks.

Santushti Tyagi: Okay, why not why not ⁓ Parky is on boarded with you and let's see how it goes, Baran.

Abhishek: Are you running ads?

Santushti Tyagi: ⁓ we are trying our hands on it. Not so n ⁓ like you have been working in the space. So I would also like to ask you ki for a brand like us, when ⁓ my initial vision behind running performance ads or doing performance marketing was that ⁓ when I run ads or whenever I get into full fledged performance marketing, ⁓ I want to amplify what I've already the way I've already reached out to a community rather than starting with it.

Abhishek: Thank you. Yeah. Hmm.

Santushti Tyagi: Burning money and making just making sure my product reaches the consumer. So, what would be your take on it?

Abhishek: Thanks. right I'll tell you the way see as a brand if you're starting you should never start with paid ads you should build a community you should build an organic audience for your product it should reach to your customers organically first then you have to spend on ads if you run ads in the first place nobody's going to buy a product that is what the new Android meta update of meta also does if your videos are getting organic reach

Santushti Tyagi: Okay. Exactly. Mm.

Abhishek: then it help you to reach your target audience. Right? So firstly, you have to build that community. You have to build that organic content in your page. Then you optimize it. That's how it works.

Santushti Tyagi: So you solve the awareness funnel organically, then eventually you reach at a point where your your consumers are in it.

Abhishek: Yeah. Yeah. We reach at a point where you have done your organic stuff, then you are expanding, then you have a number of ad creatives, number of campaigns running, then we optimize the numbers there. It's more of a numbers game. So yeah. And we can also help you to set up a campaign. It's not an issue. Done, done. I mean, I think you have to catch up on another call. It dragged us down.

Santushti Tyagi: Definitely, I'm texting you right after the discussion. Okay.

Abhishek: I mean no you said you have to catch a call at 2.30. Yeah, yeah, you forgot. I mean ⁓ whatever you're doing you're really, you're doing an impact solution for the society and I really appreciate it out of my heart. Santosh, all the best for you and we'll stay in touch.

Santushti Tyagi: I have yes, yes, yes, I have to forty five and forty five, yes. Okay. Yes, definitely. And I'm really glad we could have this conversation. And also it would be a win for me if you go back and talk to your female counterparts, have a conversation.

Abhishek: Yeah. No, no, I'll share everyone. I'll share. I did this, I'll share even my ex-girlfriends also. Don't worry. Then, I'll see you. Bye. Have a great day.

Santushti Tyagi: Done. Thank you so much. Thank