speaker-0: Thanks for coming in, I appreciate it. We always love it when you're in town. speaker-1: Appreciate it. speaker-2: Thank you guys very speaker-1: Well, it gives us a chance to try to catch up on some stuff and at the same time incorporate everything we're doing on multiple levels to people and forms. speaker-0: Yeah. Love-hate relationship with him being in town. Love him and I love seeing him, but then I know we're going to hear about like madness. That's going to drive me absolutely insane for the next. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: Yes. Yeah. Then you'll start doing post. Yeah. you get all fired up. it's, you know, the stuff that you do. speaker-0: You always tell us these random things going on and it's like, holy shit. Can't believe it. speaker-1: People are like, are you gonna move to Nevada? Well, I thought about it. speaker-0: A little better in Colorado right now. speaker-1: Yeah, it's going to get better. mean, the pendulum is going to swing. It's just a matter of if it's going to swing far enough to get back what we've had to fight. Yeah. Mm-hmm. It's just constantly reoccurring. speaker-0: Yeah. I'm with you Lorenzo. Every time it's like, I know I'm going to hear some stuff I don't really probably want to hear, but I also, I've been seeing some stuff on there that looks, looks promising, right? Yeah. There's some positives for sure. Yeah. I'm, and I'm going to be interested to kind of get into that and hear, hear your thoughts on it. So I, maybe we'll, save that for the backend so that we're, ⁓ we leave on some optimism. Yeah. speaker-2: Exactly. Yeah, we've got it. We've got it. speaker-1: a lot of things in the next eight months that are going to be of significant attention to the sporting community and anybody that really cares about Colorado in the West I mean the things that are happening some of which were planned that we've been able to defeat and some which weren't planned that kind of got handed to us with a lot of support. So it's gonna be interesting to see how some of it plays out between here in November and then whatever the governor decides to do in Colorado between November and January 12th when he's done. speaker-0: That's it, January 12th, this is out. speaker-1: Yeah, he's term limited. speaker-0: What's the race looking like? What are politics right now going on? speaker-1: Well, there's there's two Republicans that are vying for the spot of Victor Marx, who was part of the ⁓ turning point, you know, USA mentality. Victor's a great guy. I'm going to have him on our podcast. I think on the eighth, ⁓ he's actually in the lead on the Republican side. And then Senator Barbara Kirkmeyer, ⁓ current senator, is probably. a better known politician. in all reality, mean, Colorado is leaning blue and has for quite some time and people keep electing Democrats. And so we've got Senator Michael Bennett and we've got Attorney General Phil Weiser that are both running for the Democratic spot. as much as I hate to say it, when two Democrats come out and raise $20 million between the two of them, and when we started, Republicans or independents were running and then they raised less than $2 million combined between all of them. It kind of tells you where it's leaning. speaker-0: Yeah, the outcome. They're more organized. Yes, I mean the likelihood that you'll elect a Democrat is pretty high. Yeah, pretty much. And what is the outlook for either one of them? speaker-1: Well, it's going to be better than what we got, but it's not going to be what we want. Okay. I mean... speaker-0: Not much better than what you got. Like what's the general read on that? speaker-1: I think right now we have Satan and Hannibal Lecter in there as far as the governor polis and his husband. speaker-0: From the outside looking in, we would... speaker-1: Yeah, and and we're probably likely gonna turn around and get somebody like maybe Charles Dauber You know it's speaker-2: It's still bad. speaker-1: Yeah, it's still bad, but but not so much on the animal rights extremism side. It's just more of a democratic progressive mentality, which isn't really good for the Western United States as a whole. got too much public land. We got too much agriculture. We got too much natural resources. And we have fewer population densities unless you get into some of the just the urban areas themselves. But ⁓ Attorney General Phil Weiser is probably not going to be the most firearm friendly individual. But he hasn't shown a complete displeasure for the agriculture community or the sportsmen and women natural resource community. That being said, Senator Michael Bennett, who is a federal congressman, ⁓ he's shown favor to the ag industry. He's done sporting events. ⁓ He hasn't shown a complete displeasure for natural resource. consumptive use or mine extraction or wildlife and he's, we've met with him several times and I think that if he was to get elected, ⁓ there's an opportunity there to maybe reverse some of the things that the current governor has done and some of that is on different boards and commissions including the Parks and Wildlife Commission and those things people should pay attention to because of what's going on in Washington. I mean, everybody sees Washington, Colorado, Washington, Oregon. It's like the trifecta on either one. You could run them all into Kentucky Derby and you could get the worst of the worst out of any of them. ⁓ And I think that where we're going and what we're trying to completely reverse with our new constitutional right to hunt and fish, you guys have seen about in the international order of T. Roosevelt's helping to fund that. The reason I wanted to come on is because they wanted me and CRWM to take the infantry ground game on that. And they're willing to supply the air support and the sea support and maybe the guerrilla warfare support, but they've asked us to take on the infantry. And those are in direct competition for the opposition's way to continually move in their needle. And what we did in 2024 on proposition 127 and ordinance 308, They saw the IOTR guys saw, hey, this might be the best time to turn around and do something like this. Although that was not their original plan. They were going to try it in 28 or 30 in Colorado and some wealthier individuals in the state of Colorado decided to run it through the legislative council and title board on their own. Lo and behold, they ran six different titles. Three came out of title board. They came back to IOTR and said, hey, okay, we got through this process. We need some help. And lo and behold, here we are today, about three and a half weeks into the signature gathering campaign. And ⁓ now you see where the anti's really stand because they're coming out of the woodwork at every single level. ⁓ You know, trying to pose this initiative 302, which I want to say at the first part of the podcast, it will not be initiative 302 if it makes it on the ballot. It'll be amendment something or other, but it has to go through the signature part of things. So they're already out there saying, vote no on 302. And it's like, them whatever you want, because 302 is not going to be on there. speaker-0: Yeah. So how far into this? Yeah, because to me, like I just I just barely recently started seeing this like kind of pop up, right? And maybe this is good time just diving. I was going to kind of save it to the end, but I think it's probably timely, right? ⁓ So like, where did this right to hunt and fish like, where did it come out of? And how far along is it? And what's the full process? Can speaker-1: So it's the same group that has done it in multiple other states in some capacity through their legislatures or whatever. They did it in 2024 in Florida and won by about 70 some odd percent. you know, constitutional rights are in well, constitutional right to hunt and fish are in 24 states. If it passes in Colorado, they'll be the 25th state. And their duty, their task, their mission is to try to get this in all 50 states. ⁓ Luke Hilgemann and Travis Thompson are kind of running the ship over there and I haven't met everybody. We've got a big meeting in Denver on the second where they've asked me to pull together a team and then they're going to bring their people in and we're trying to make sure that we all can mesh and if we're playing badminton or football based upon Luke Hilgemann's size, he was the law offense lineman so I want to badminton. speaker-2: football. speaker-1: ⁓ We've gotten to a point to where the strategy has been laid out because of some of the things I previously mentioned about the way Colorado is. Colorado is just in this conundrum of circumstances for the last 20 years, but specifically the last eight with Governor Polis and Marlon Rees. ⁓ this is something to codify the constitutional right to hunt and fish. And people say, why do you need it? It's already in statute. You need it. to be able to turn around. I used an analogy the other day and it actually stuck pretty good. If you're driving down the highway at 85 mile an hour and you got a windshield but your windows are open, it doesn't mean that something's not gonna come in the side and zap you inside the head. But the windshield is a barrier. It's a preventative device to hopefully you don't get smacked in the face. I think the constitutional amendment is something along that line. It's not that it can't be circumvented. It's not that there won't be things thrown at the windshield. ⁓ But if we can do that, it makes it more difficult for the antis, whether they're appointed on boards and commissions, or they want to do a lawsuit, or they want to do a ballot initiative, or they want to do a citizens petition, or they want to do a piece of legislation. It gives you an additional higher step and a ⁓ boundary and a barrier. You can say, hey, wait a minute, the constitutionalality of this is this. And it gives you something to be able to turn around and go to court on, as opposed to maybe changing something. through those other processes that we've been having to fight, God, you know, since 1992 in the state of Colorado when we banned spring bear hunting and hounds and ⁓ bait on bears. And then in 96 on Amendment 14, which took all the trapping away. speaker-0: So you think if you had this then, it would be a harder to try to. speaker-1: ⁓ yeah, undeniable. Especially if you look at Amendment 14 on the trapping issue in 96 because that was a constitutional amendment. The interesting thing is, and I need to express this pretty regularly, is there was a raise the bar standard, I think in 2016 it was Amendment 71, and instead of just making statutory ballot initiatives and constitutional ballot initiatives the same, this raised the bar on the constitutionality side of it. So instead of just 50 plus 1 % or 50.1, you have to have 55 % to be able to do a constitutional amendment. What we lost on the trapping one in 1996 was 52 to 48. That would not have passed in today's standards. it does raise the bar. And it also sets and codifies it a little bit more deeply. If you look at 127, on Prop 127 that we did, we won that by 55%. But that was a statutory attempt from the opposition. But just for comparison, the analogy is if we would have ran that on our side to do something positive, we would have won by 55 % if it had been in the state constitution. See an opportunity not only for what Colorado can accomplish, but how this lays the track record in the playbook out for Oregon. Look what they're doing in Oregon. IP28, they're going to get, it's on the ballot. speaker-0: I guess, yeah, the signatures were collected. speaker-1: Yeah, they might have to have some verifying certified, but I mean, who'd ever thought that the state of Oregon would turn around and say it's an animal sanctuary state and you couldn't raise chickens and breed cattle because it would be sexual abuse. You couldn't hunt, couldn't trap, you couldn't fish, you couldn't do pest control. That's what they've tried to do in Colorado at different levels, but a little bit here and a little bit there and a little bit here. In Oregon, they just said, well, let's just throw it all off the wall and see how much of what we can get. speaker-2: Now they speaker-0: Yeah, I I just just pulled up the bill, the ballot title. It says, Hall, there is an amendment to Colorado Constitution creating a constitutional right to hunt and fish and harvest fish and wildlife by traditional methods, including all species of fish and wildlife managed by the state, except non game species, endangered species or any species that is illegal to hunt or fish under federal law and in connection therewith, establishing hunting and fishing as the preferred means of managing fish and wildlife populations and preserving the right. of the state to regulate hunting, fishing, and wildlife management if necessary for sound scientific wildlife conservation and management, public safety, or to preserve the future of hunting and fishing opportunities for all species. speaker-1: glad you read that because I was going to look it up so could read it because I haven't memorized the thing but I know it by heart. But I want to say too that that does not give people the unequivocal authority to hunt everything you want from January 1st to December 3rd. There is still science, there's still regulations, there's still seasons, there's still models, there's still all the stuff that goes into scientifically wildlife management. speaker-2: you speaker-1: The other thing is it doesn't give anybody permission to turn around and go on somebody's private property. It's still a need for permission. The anti is if you look at all their social media and stuff right now, this degrades, you know, private property rights and it turns around and undermines Colorado Parks and Wildlife and it's not following the science. We should follow the science. I'm that's what we've been saying for the last 15 years and you idiots keep saying, no, they're wrong. Now they're right all of a sudden. Well, maybe speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: When did they become right? Because you just don't want us to codify this in the state constitution. I think that that's where we get into a he said, she said, Buddha shoulda, coulda deal. It's like, they're using our message. They're using our tone. They're using our narrative. And everything that we turn around and try to promote comes from the same story that we've been telling people over and over and over. Now they're using our message for us. I you listen to the people that I'm up against regularly. And Karen knows, I mean, 50 times a day. Don't comment on Gates' stuff. Don't get on CRWM. Don't share. Don't like or thumbs up or anything, because you just help their algorithms and their analytics. And then we put something out the next day, and then they're all jumping back on. Look at this. This is a bunch of crap. They can't help. They can't stop. speaker-2: himself. You raised Bated him. Yeah. speaker-0: I mean, that seems like a good step in the right direction. It's like you said, I think it creates a windshield, essentially a barrier, right? And the language in it is sound. mean, it says it sounds scientific wildlife conservation and management. ⁓ Yeah. then, yeah, preserve the future of hunting and fishing opportunities for all species, which, is great. ⁓ It's funny. I think we had you on three years ago and I think I brought this up because I think Utah at the time was going through the same process of getting a right to hunt and fish. And that went through and it passed and Yeah. I wondered if this couldn't be, you know, back then and maybe now the time is right. hope that that's the case. You know, it seems to be like a good step in the right direction just for protecting rights that we hold near and dear. ⁓ where is it at in the process as far? So talk, talk me through cause I'm, I'm, ⁓ I'm a moron. So ⁓ take me through. So you have to collect a certain amount of signatures and then speaker-2: Ha ha. speaker-1: you need roughly I think it's hundred and twenty four thousand four hundred and seventy eight signature roughly a and twenty five thousand But you need to make sure they're all certified. we're shooting for 200,000 signatures to get way above the threshold. The reason being is because we've got 35 Senate districts in the state, and you have to gather your signatures, eat 2 % of each one of the 35 Senate districts because it's constitutional amendment. If you wanted to run a statutory amendment, you could stand out in front of One Whole Foods in Denver, Colorado, and get all your signatures if you could get them there. But because this is constitutional, they have to go through each one of the 35 Senate districts to so. That being said, you look at Denver, Boulder, Fort Collins, all that stuff, those are bigger districts. Yeah. a lot of people, so you got to get 2 % of a lot of people. You go to Whereford-Ow County or maybe San Miguel County, I mean, it might have a couple thousand people in the entire district. to be able to get 2 % of the registered voters, sometimes that's even more challenging because a lot of those places aren't registered voters. Or if they are, they don't go to town regularly when somebody's gonna be down there gathering signatures. So it's been about three weeks, I think that these guys, they've got paid professional canvassers, petitioners that are out there, several hundred throughout the state. And I just did a post, I think it was on Saturday, about, the front range and where people could go to get signatures. I think there was about 30 or 40 places where we knew people were going to be. And then there's people all over the state that are doing the same thing. We just don't know if somebody's standing in front of 7-Eleven someplace or they go in front of Big R or they turn around and go, you know, some grocery store in Alamosa or something. So we think we're somewhere in the neighborhood of about 65 or 70,000 signatures. speaker-0: In three weeks? And are those, do you have to be in person to sign a thing? can't be like an online. speaker-1: in three weeks. No online, had to be in person, had to be a registered voter. ⁓ Everything that you put in there has to be exactly or within reason under the Secretary of State guidelines of exactly what your voter registration is. And so if you sign it as ⁓ Mike and your name is Michael, they'll take common ⁓ reference names or like names. But as long as it matches all the other thresholds within that. During the Cats aren't trophies campaign that we saw back in 24 when they were trying to get signatures, there was something in the neighborhood of around nine or 10 % that were not certifiable. So if you only gathered 130,000, 140,000, you might not make the threshold, especially on a constitutional one, because what you don't want to do, the deadline on this is August 4th for them to get the signatures. Then they got time to get them certified. But they have to be done 60 days prior to the election because then the Secretary of State can turn around and do the blue book and print everything out and make sure everything's copacetic. We are looking at, think we're going to be pushing that 175 to 200,000 signatures with no problem at all because the people that we've talked to and then all the people that have said, signed at such and such or I went here and they were there. the petitioners have indicated, the signature gatherers have indicated that was the most prominent petition that people had wanted to sign. So, know, a lot of times they're getting three or four or five, eight dollars a piece to get signatures. They'll have 12 different things laid out there. One's on taxes, one's on abortion, one's on prostitution, one on whatever the hell it is. They're searching that one out and they're coming up saying, do you have the hunting one? And they say that's the most prolific one and the most enthusiastic one right now. speaker-0: They're searching that one out. well-welcome right now by people who are seeing it, understand it. speaker-1: I think so and I think honestly Brady I think that people have gotten to a point to where it's in the news to some degree every day because of the freaking wolf deal that started back in 2020 and it's a reoccurring regurgitation of stuff that you just look at and go is this all that these people talk speaker-0: Yeah, people that's getting sick of hearing it like we gotta stop this we got to do whatever we can so I'm gonna go out there and I'm gonna sign this yeah This is silly. Look what's on the news every single day. It's not Yeah, I think people are just sick of getting kicked in the teeth all the time And it's like this is an opportunity for me to do something offensive Yeah, know what I mean instead of just standing there and just taking it always always that's I do it as it's every it's been so defensive for the last however, I mean since 1992 it sounds like it's been just nothing speaker-1: But in a speaker-0: This one is actually, you know, West Coast offense. speaker-1: I want to read you something real quick and show you something that so I just got this on our anniversary last week. Governor Polis just did an executive order and then that executive order it talks about healthy food and being able to supply for your own self and blah blah blah. But there's a paragraph in there it says the Department of Natural Resources shall encourage and work in collaboration with Colorado Parks and Wildlife CPW to promote the health benefits of outdoor activities like hunting, fishing, hiking, wildlife photography, cycling, and many other forms of outdoor recreation and message that hunting and fishing provides a more sustainable option for fresh, lean, organic, and healthy sources of protein by sharing fish and game recipes across a variety of CPW outlets, including in the Colorado Outdoors Magazine's September and October 26, 2026 issues, statewide social media accounts and related hunting and fishing focused newsletters beginning in June of 2026. speaker-0: Wait, what? So basically what you just did is in support of it all, which is very, good. speaker-1: Yeah, I mean, I'll speaker-0: even having this battle because he just said yeah hunting is awesome. That's come from though what was the point of speaker-2: Exactly. speaker-1: I don't know, I don't know. speaker-2: Yeah, it's like Ron Berg, anything on the teleprompter. Not yet. I'm just gonna speaker-0: Did you comment high five on that? speaker-1: I mentioned at the next Parks and Wildlife Commission meeting when the commission is undertaking the fur ban again, the commercial fur ban that we fought so diligently that got kicked down the road. But we've had a lot of victories in the last seven months. In the last 18 months, most significant amount of victories. But things that we've done at the legislature, thing that we've done at the commission. And we have gone up against the governor's own personal appointments for the commission. You guys probably saw a bunch of that. And we forced two of those in-Senate confirmations to resign. Now, whether the governor made them resign because they were going to lose or because they decided they couldn't stand the heat in the kitchen. ⁓ But to see how they stepped aside, we fought diligently. I mean, the entire agriculture and the sporting and county community came out against those two individuals. And the funny thing about that story is you probably saw the Ronella deal where he came out against Samantha Miller and what they were doing. a lot of that was proven documented stuff, what she did with cats aren't trophies and what she was doing for the Center for Biological Diversity. But Commissioner Sisko. Somehow got in touch with. or one of his relatives got in touch with Giannis Pitellis and they wanted to get Cisco on the Meat Eater podcast. Well, I found out about it I'm like, hey, wait a minute, whoa, this isn't all a bag of jelly beans and chocolate eggs here. We need to... ⁓ Well, let's get up because the entire community for the last four months has not been sold on this individual. And now we're going to go fight. Don't put please don't put him on until if he look, if he's confirmed by the Senate, bring him on there and then turn around and let him. But don't give him a platform, please. so if if Commissioner Sisko, Chris Sisko listens to this go hunt podcast. Yeah, we were opposing him, but he knew damn good. Well, we were. And when we put so much pressure that he and Commissioner John Emmerich decided to step aside. That's the first time in probably 50 years that any two commissioners in the state of Colorado, that's Highway Department, Department of Ag, Health and Human Services, that were ever kicked. We were told that we would lose both. when we first started that and for us to win both. Well, then it just set the entire commission in this tailspin of efforts because now we've got five commissioners that will be unconfirmed because there's three new ones that will be appointed. These other two that now they've got reappointments. What we were hoping for is when a new governor came in, Michael Bennett, Phil Weiser, know, Victor Marx, Barbara Kirkmaier, whoever it might be, that they had a chance to turn around and say, I want to put people in my positions where I want the people. And we were told by most of the gubernatorial candidates that they would not just kick people out unless it was for cause, unless they were not confirmed, because then the Senate didn't confirm them. OK, so we give the new governor five off the bat. And then coming up in July of twenty seven, there'll be two other ones that are coming up. So a governor, new governor could take seven individuals. out of 11 and replace them within the first six months of their term. Even if there was some sort of middle of the road levity and civility just brought into it, bring it back to where it's some sort of understanding that reason I'm here and pointed for this was not for my reason or not for his reason or not for her reason, it's for this reason. And I think that that set the tone and narrative on so many different levels that the general public didn't care about any of this. Now they started paying attention because it's been in the news every single day. And then all the other stuff that we did. The 1323 on the Beaver Bill, beat it 11 to 2 in House Ag. The Rodenicide Bill, we beat that 10 to 3. They were going to stop you from killing mice and rats in the state of Colorado. speaker-2: We beat. speaker-0: I remember that one. speaker-1: hear us talking about that stuff. And I'm like, yeah, I'm a pest control guy. Yeah. People bitching about mice and rats every single day where we go even we go sit there for something else. Or like, how do I get rid of mice and rats? And people are these the individuals out of Project Coyote Center for Biological Diversity are trying to take the ability for people to maintain a healthy food source and their water and their environment and their livelihood. And it's like, no, we don't what you We don't want you killing mice because you might end up in Berlin killing a coyote. speaker-0: Yeah. So let me go back. So collecting signatures, the reason I ask is like, do you have to have an individual that is somehow licensed to collect these signatures or like kind of local business? I have friends that own businesses. have a buddy Brock, he owns Highway Feed in Silk, Colorado. Can he set up? speaker-1: He can, but the recommendation is, and you and I should get together, have him contact me. Because of December of 2025, a new deal came up to where if you're going to do it as a paid staffer, like a volunteer contractor type person, then you need to be certified. You go through, take a 20 minute online course. I don't think it's really a test, but it's to make sure that you're adhering to the laws, rules, and regulations of signature gathering. A volunteer person doesn't have to do that. But it's recommended to do that to where everybody's on the same playing field. And to where you just don't go out and willy-nilly do this and you turn in a thousand signatures and find out 996 of them aren't any good because you're an idiot. We don't need any idiots from what we've already got out there. And some of us can be in multiple levels. speaker-2: audience. speaker-0: Yeah, so that's something that he could potentially do. speaker-1: Yeah, brick and mortars would be great because if the district has not filled the required 2%, yeah, it'd be great to be able to get those in because they're open 40, 60, 80 hours a week and somebody can stop in as opposed to hoping that somebody's going to stand out in front of the city market. speaker-0: Yeah, I'm just thinking, mean, Neville, he's got an office space now in Fort Collins, and I know he'd be on it. He'd be all about it. They'd love that, he and Josh. And then, yeah, my buddy Brock, it's feed store. mean, that's their client. speaker-1: That'd be bad. speaker-2: Yeah speaker-1: people in the business, but it also gives people an opportunity to discuss and inform themselves about the process. Because we haven't had a legitimate ballot initiative that we've attempted to run in decades. Because people kept arguing and bitching and complaining to us specifically, because we became the face of a lot of different things. The tip of the spear was, when are you going to do something on the offense? Well, when you're constantly on defense and you got the biggest the biggest juggernauts on the planet and they've got the ball, you got to take the ball away from them. We have now and we actually have a backing of national organizations with with state representation to be able to turn around and try to play offense. But we still have to be able to do defense because we're still doing the commission stuff. We're still doing the ballot stuff. We're still doing the legislative stuff. Yeah, this is a three prong approach. And if you watch hockey. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: which we were gonna go to the game tonight, but we're not going to. speaker-2: I f***ed you. speaker-0: I told Lorenzo last time I was down here, I said this is going to be a five game series at speaker-2: That's what I think. ⁓ speaker-1: I guess. speaker-0: I told you I wanted it to be. You can't just go into the President's Cup winners and do, you can't just think that. speaker-1: I Well, I'm starting to wonder now. We bought tickets and we didn't get rid of our other Cirque du Soleil tickets tonight. So we go into Cirque du Soleil. So if anybody wants to go, I've got tickets to go to the nightly You do? No, do not want to say. I've lived a frustrated enough life as it is. I don't need to turn around and be pissed off at people that I really like. speaker-2: Thanks. speaker-0: You don't want to see Colorado loose? I took my kid to the game game three and it was that was awesome incredible game such an incredible game down Yeah, three nil in the first period and then back by the way one of those three was a shorthanded. ⁓ yeah, so it's like we weren't just speaker-1: Damn. speaker-2: Okay, I'm done right now. You're gonna make any more handy. No, it's crazy. speaker-1: is it? speaker-0: No, it was crazy. speaker-1: Anyway, we're getting tattoos. speaker-0: We can easily sidetrack. Do you remember your point you were trying to make to bringing up hockey? I'm sorry. ⁓ speaker-2: I want to bring this up because I want to it up. Lorenzo. speaker-1: Yeah, it's just natural f- speaker-2: Honestly speaker-0: Where I think you were going, which I'm going to put myself out on a limb here, is you were going to compare the offense-defense thing to a hockey game. Because hockey game is constant. Switch. Constant switch. Back and defensive push. It's constant. I would imagine that's exactly what your life is now, where it's like a two-second sprint on offense and then a one-minute set of defense and then vice versa. speaker-1: Duff. Everything. 100%. And hopefully you don't have an empty net. Yeah, exactly. Because the house. We're sick speaker-2: getting out of the airplane and going through trying to get our baggage. Like, we're three now it's just shut up. Just shut it up. So yeah, so I got tickets if you want to use them tonight. speaker-1: And then she saw it and she's like, ⁓ now it's four, five, three. turn right so speaker-0: I might have to talk to you after. I might have to see my kid would love that. That would be awesome. Is your kid here? No, but he could be. speaker-1: We're just in a precarious position and situation because the state has so much at stake and there's potential for so much ⁓ overturn. mean, every single election that we have this fall is dependent on are people fed up with the last eight years. And if you paid attention to what Governor Polis just did, where he released the gal by the name of Tina Peters, gave her clemency, ⁓ it pissed off the Democratic Party to the point where they censored him and they're not going to allow him to speak at any of the Democratic events throughout the course of the year. mean, they, they, he is losing, losing significant political favor. ⁓ And he said, well, leave time for my kids and my husband. Well, that's not what he was talking about before. He wanted much broader things up there. then the statement that I just read, I I don't where the hell that came from. ⁓ speaker-0: ⁓ That's great. That's a classic politician. Classic politician. ⁓ I'm unpopular? What's hot right now? Okay, let me jump on that one. speaker-2: This is like a love it speaker-1: Yeah, let's do recipes. speaker-2: Maybe we can start a cooking show. speaker-0: Is the wind blowing? Yeah, let me get some positive talk out there about me. I he just wants to draw a tag and he's like, I'm just going to talk. speaker-1: Yeah, we're doing those raffles now he probably wants to put it speaker-2: Right now, more raffle things. ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah, and everybody does need to pay it. mean, that was one thing you brought up really. Colorado is like an epicenter for what we love. I mean, it really is. The draw results will come out this week for Colorado. Everybody's excited. We're all talking about it. speaker-1: My credit card got dinged this morning so I said there's something I didn't draw so... speaker-2: Right in. Interesting. speaker-1: for preference points. speaker-0: Colorado is the most non-resident-hunted state, right? Yeah, by a long way. It's an incredible resource. It's awesome. That's what I mean. Everybody has to pay attention to Colorado. speaker-1: Well, and you look, mean, we know that there's a citizens petition coming up in front of the commission in June, and there's a group, grassland something or other, and they want to rewild Eastern Colorado. They want to take all the over-the-counter elk licenses off the plate. mean, people said all along, well, they'll never go after deer and elk. They'll go after what they think they can get, or that'll gain favor of either people with money, or people with grant money or people that just turn around and think ideologically similar to what they do. You know, we've heard conversations about why are they allowing us to kill our bighorn sheep, why are they allowing them to kill our bighorn sheep, the state animal. And the sheep hunters were like, ⁓ OK, lions, we understand. you know, we'll go hunt lions somewhere else. We already killed a lion. Now you start talking about bighorn sheep. And they're like, wait a minute. Yeah. You know, now they're talking about elk? And you got fur bearers again. now they want to turn out and bring up the mountain lion deal in some degree and prairie dogs. And I just got an email this morning about lead bullets. And I mean, it's it's every segment of everything. And I don't want to give him any more flavor than what he's actually been able to get. But I think his name is Glenn Parton. If you listen to any of the CPW commission meetings, he got his own radio show. it sounds like he's listening to Mr. Rogers in a dark closet is what it speaker-2: it is. speaker-1: But he said that the West should be rewilded. We should have eminent domain on all the private properties. We should turn those into wilderness areas, turn them back to the wildlife. We should ban all hunting and fishing. And he goes up and testifies on the commission. ⁓ But you see half of the room sitting there shaking their head, yes. And the other ones over there sitting there going, this guy's a flipping idiot. It's the divided culture, the urban rule divide, but there's a certain segment of people out there that they keep talking about it, they keep professing it, they keep turning around and trying to push it. And those are the things that we have to watch out for because who from an elected position is going to turn around and find out that maybe there's a little bit of opportunity over there. Look what's happened in Oregon. When that was IP3, everybody thought that guy was a whack job. Now it's IP28 and they're like, meh. get enough people and get on the the ballot. And what people don't realize is just because you lose, like these guys on IP 28 will eventually lose. They will. But because they lost, there's a lot of stuff that comes out of there that then politicians can go, OK, well, that was too extreme. Yeah. Maybe we don't need to do that. Let's do that pest control deal like what they tried in Colorado because people wanted on the ballot here. Let's do that. speaker-0: Let's hope so. speaker-1: sexual abuse deal on cattle so you couldn't AI your cattle or couldn't turn around and do that. I mean, this is the mentality. Shoot for this guy, get as much as see what you can. Okay, you don't get it. Now let's start piecing it up. speaker-0: They're just trying to get attention right now. That's what it comes down to. They're trying to get national attention and what they're going to get it. And then they're like, ⁓ yeah, next time now we know what we can do. ⁓ Crazy. So this is this, I keep going back to this ballot, but I just. speaker-1: Gora speaker-2: you speaker-0: So, sign it, right? So show up like. Just start to vote and then seek it out and sign it. So yeah, we needed a couple hundred thousand signatures by July, August 4th. Okay. And then we get the signatures and then it'll go to vote in November. Right. speaker-2: If you're not registered. speaker-1: Get Yeah. August November 3rd, we get it on the ballot, August 4th, get certified, you'll start to see a campaign come out. We'll have an amendment number. You'll be seeing vote yes, vote no. We're saying promote this, they're saying oppose this. And it's going to be similar to the 127 campaign. Although right now, it's bewildering to me what they're going to come up with with a message because they're already saying support CPW. that's exactly what speaker-0: that just show them what you read us yeah yeah just we'll put up a huge sign yeah you know one of those little thought speaker-1: Your own that. speaker-2: Jareth Polis. speaker-1: supports hunting and fishing. Yeah. I'm gonna start a Jared Polis home cooking show. speaker-0: by Jared Polis. That's all you gotta do. speaker-2: Ha speaker-0: Just like everything else too though, like a non-resident is vital in this as well to be sharing all this information, to help out residents there to help sign this thing. So just because you're not a Colorado resident doesn't mean you can't help. Like you can help right now by sharing the message, pushing it across to like make people aware of what's going on. Yeah, just like, you're on a hundred and twenty-seven. This is very important for you right now. speaker-1: You want to hunt anywhere. Yeah, I mean I've said this many many times Brady that when the Antis win they build support. State, But when they lose they build more support because people are like we can't let them do this. Just like on the cat steal, just on the lion and bobcat deal. We kicked the crap out of them and she turns around and goes and gets a job with the Center for Biological Diversity and they put her on a podium. speaker-0: and they just move on to the next. speaker-1: You know, like she's some expert. It's the same woman that we just beat the crap out of. But they turn around and put her on a national platform to come back to Colorado and turn around and say this and do that and try this and move there. I mean, it's a shell game with them. But there's money behind and underneath every shell to the point where they just like, we lost, we need more. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: I'm convinced that if we had a national messaging campaign talking about sportsmen, women, hunting and fishing, the benefits of hunting and fishing, we could stop a lot of this rhetoric. But constitutional amendments will do a lot of that as well. And that's up to the individual states to be able to do it. But you still have to be able to turn around and educate the general public about the benefits of hunting and fishing. Every winter, every fall during the Hallmark season and you got, you know, all the Christmas shows and everything coming out and all the winter television shows, Dancy with the Stars and all the other stuff. speaker-2: comes out. It might be eventually. It might be. ⁓ You're not on it. It'll fine. speaker-0: That's trail speed. Yeah, I can't dance. speaker-1: But we see we see ASPCA and the World Wildlife Fund and the Humane Society and all the other which is now the humane world for animals is not the Humane Society. But you see all their commercials come out $19 a month. Just give us $19 a month times 47 million and pretty soon they can they can build up whatever they need to. If we did that, and of course I was the chair of the Colorado Wildlife Council, but if we did that national educational campaign, to some degree, just to show the benefits of hunting and fishing. You don't have to do it. But if you would just turn around and acknowledge the fact of Colorado Parks and Wildlife is an example in Colorado, but every game agency has the same thing, they're doing it for the benefit of everybody. Whether you choose to hunt it or not is your prerogative. But don't turn around and chastise it and bastardize it. You should pedestalize it because what we've had over the last 125 or 150 years is because of that model. You don't have to tell people about the model. You tell them about the current day events. of what it is, it would be a lot easier to turn around and move that needle forward, especially if you had a constitutional right to hunt and fish, and you could plant that in people's heads to where they understood. speaker-0: You know, the good thing is, if you, once you collect the signatures and then, you know, you, begin your campaign, your messaging, right. To like get people out to vote for this thing when in November, the good thing is, is you don't really have to change your messaging from anything that you've ever, ever said because it's consistent. It's like. I mean, I use this example all the time, but like the easiest way, it's why I tell people the truth. If they ask me where I haunt her fish, cause it's just easier to remember it, right? Like I don't have to make up big stories. Like I don't have to lie. I don't have to like fabricate and like find a new angle. And that's a great thing about this is like it's the same message that we've always had, that this is the best thing for wildlife. So it's like, can, you can just go back out and just continue to tell people it's the same message and it resonates cause it's true. speaker-1: Yeah. It's funny too because you start to see a mentality or perspective from politicians. Where you think you know how they're going to vote or what they're going to say. And then when the tide starts changing a little bit, you win a few different... pieces of legislation and you kick the crap out of some things to the Commission and then there's this disruption in the process to so many different levels and then somebody says something you're like I didn't figure that was gonna be said and that's completely in our favor. When we looked at the House Ag Committee as an example there's nine Democrats and four Republicans on that. We smoked every bill that came through there. I mean not by nine to four on their numbers but ten to three and eleven to two. speaker-2: We beat it. speaker-1: that you took a complete Democrat committee in a Democrat house in a Democrat Senate with a Democrat governor, the Democrat every single other position, you beat them with the people that Center for Biological Diversity and Project Coyote are putting out there going, this is what you should do and this is how you should do it and this is how people should live. But you've already kicked the crap out of them on the ballot. mean, that's the... That's the best focus group you could possibly have is to turn around and put it in front of several million people and then come out with a 10 or a 15 % margin of victory. If I was running that campaign, I wouldn't be turning around and trying to do something in a party of six because that's what they keep trying to do. Sway the minority that you know was appointed for a specific reason because the majority, the people out there that have voted against it, you don't want to hear what they have to say. speaker-0: They're a lot of good though. I hear a lot of optimism. It feels good. See, Lorenzo, this is a good one. This is a much better one. speaker-1: ⁓ yeah. speaker-2: You got me. speaker-1: Is there any whiskey in here? speaker-0: today. speaker-1: You start talking about the abs, that's why. speaker-0: Clicking on all cylinders here. That's it. No, it's good. It's good good to get some good news, you know speaker-1: Everybody's ⁓ campaigns always come to an end. The administrations always come to an end. And there's ebbs and flows and peaks and valleys in politics. But we were talking before we even started recording that sportsmen often have a short attention span when it comes into things that they're unfamiliar with or that they don't want to turn around and deal with until they realize that the sky's falling. And they have to. But I've told people many times. politics, sportsman politics is not a one and done. You can't just show up, say you're a minute and a half testimony and leave and never come back. even if you did win, they're coming back with something else and something else and something else. And I think sportsmen and women are probably some of the most resilient individuals on the planet because we keep applying for stuff we're never going to draw. We turn around and go hunt stuff and pursue stuff we're never going to kill. You know, I mean, it's just like the elk deal. 9 % of the people in state of Colorado are successful. That's 91 % that are not. Our guy, Luke Weedle, who's on our board says, can you imagine going to the grocery store 91 % of the times and not getting food? Or having to apply for the opportunity and just be able to go walk in and look, but not be able speaker-2: taken home with you. speaker-1: People would not put up with that very long, but we keep doing it and we pay for it for sportsmen and women. If we fought just a little bit as much as what we turn around and hunt and pursue and prepare and buy and scout and you know do all the processes on all the computer stuff that's available to us now. If we just fought one little bit. Now in Colorado we're starting to see some of that. You see three, four or five hundred people show up to a meeting. Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah. big deal. Yeah how was that meeting? I mean you were there tell me tell speaker-1: for bears. I was a ringleader on that. was like the... speaker-0: I know, what was it like? speaker-1: It was inspiring to see because we put so much time and effort into it, March 4th and 5th in Westminster. had 500 and some odd people that showed up to look outside. You saw the social media stuff probably. They'd look outside at 6 o'clock in the morning. People stand out there holding signs and standing all the way to get in. There was so much physical threat that was there. And I haven't said it very often, but I they had me in a bulletproof vest. mean, the threats and the innuendos and insinuations, allegations that came toward me, but then came to the staff or came to the game wardens. ⁓ speaker-0: You wore a bulletproof vest to that? speaker-1: They had me on the security detail. Yeah, the hotel was wanting me to use the service elevator to come back and forth. And they had metal detectors. Everybody went in. Everybody came out. You went back out. We served lunch to about 500 people to keep them on site to where they wouldn't have to go because you only get an hour lunch. You get 500 people to leave. They're never coming back to get in line at the same time. So we fed people. Gave them all tickets and stuff. Somebody pulled the fire alarm. And two individuals that were playing close security hit me up and said you do not go outside unless there's flames coming down the hallway. Well then it started sinking in. I'm like, well I didn't even. speaker-2: thinking about them, we all go outside, we go school outside. speaker-0: a joke. speaker-1: You know, I mean, it's the politics there have gotten to the point to where there some individuals, I believe, that are, whether they're unstable or not, they have the tendencies to think that wildlife and their policy pursuits are more important than a human life. And it's gotten to the point to where it's not just me, it's the entire community. mean, Karen, she's seen some of the stuff that we've gotten. Either people show up to the house, the letters that we get, they know where you live, they know what to send you. speaker-0: People show up to your house. They gross. They are gross. Crazy that that's... speaker-1: Yeah. mean, she's opened up envelopes and stuff to be an envelope and then she's like, the... What am supposed to do with this? Yeah. mean, and so we're not looking for sympathy. We're not looking for admiration. We're just telling people that ⁓ there's a certain amount of the population that will disagree with you or me or for whatever. Yeah. You know, maybe it's about roads and bridges because you want to turn around and drive electric cars. I don't know. ⁓ There's a certain amount of the population that does not believe that their way is the wrong way and that everything else that you profess should be their way. And they're really desperate at this point in time because they've got a governor and the first gentlemen that are on their side. they see, this is my opinion, they see that their time is running out. and it's something we have to take full advantage of. speaker-0: Yeah. Was the, what was the sportsman's response that was in that room? Was it, was it rambunctious? Was it. speaker-1: They were the most polite, very succinct and thorough. I mean, I even addressed the commission on that day during public comment in a manner that I've never addressed the commission. And I've been going to commission meetings for a better part of 20 years. Almost all of them. Matter of fact, I attend more commission meetings than most of the damn commissioners. Because I take it serious, and I think there's a need for it. But I got up and I said something that was pretty much mirroring a lot of the other people's testimony as well about the frustration, displeasure, the lack of professionalism, the unknowing confusion that the commission exhibited because they didn't listen to the scientists. You had five experts up there on the panel and the commission pretty much ignored them and ignored the letters of recommendation from the new director, Laura Kullin for CPW and from the agency itself, 13 pages. And they said, yeah, I'm going to think, so OK, well, we're going to talk about this now. And the experts sat there and just looked and listened. They didn't get a chance to talk anymore. When I got up and spoke, and I said some things that were a little not necessarily out of context in me, but out of context of what I would normally present to something, and I said, quit wasting our time. I mean, you want it? Come take it. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Quit beating around the bush. Quit wasting the agency's time. Quit wasting the staff's time. Quit wasting the public's time. Quit wasting my time. Quit wasting your time. You want it. Quit beating around the bush and just take it. And I'm not saying that that was a rallying cry, but people went, And the thing I would say is that we got lucky post March 5th, because then we beat them on the road genocide bill. Then we beat them on the Beaver bill. Then we took away the commissioners. This is all out onslaught war at this point in time. You want to keep trying to take things? Come take it. Show how much of a lunatic organization. actually are. Because if you think you can get away with it, come get it. And as I told one commissioner whose last meeting was in May, and we said complimentary obligatory goodbyes because he won't be back, probably. mean, unless the governor doesn't pick somebody else in his spot, which he's term limited. So he could be there one more meeting in theory, but likely not. And I told him, said, whatever you guys have screwed up, nothing could be ⁓ overturned. Nothing. He just kind of looked at me. And I think that that sets the tone for where we need to continually go. July in Ignacio, Colorado, which we're hoping that people show up, we're doing a bowling tournament. A bowling? Bowling tournament. Bowling for conservation. I love that. you go. speaker-0: terrible boy. That was right up your alley. speaker-2: See, it's a name, Nacio Calvo. speaker-1: ⁓ July 16th and 17th. You guys should get a team and you could come there and support. We'll do a live podcast for the casino on the Indian reservation. speaker-2: turn around. speaker-0: It would be pretty fun, honestly. speaker-1: Really? speaker-0: I mean, I don't know. ⁓ I would have thought you were a good bowler. I can't tell you the last time I went bowling. Yeah, me either. Me neither. speaker-1: Yeah, see, I mean, yeah, it would be great. You know, look at the publicity we get. July 16th and 17th, the Boeing Tournament is the night of the 16th, which is the first night of the commission meeting. We're hoping to get another three to 500 people down there in some capacity. There's the hounds and mules and hounds deal for the hound hunters down there about 30 miles south of them going at the same time. So we're hoping to draw some of them. speaker-0: Yeah, that would be fun. Yeah, so what the dates are in July? speaker-1: But it's a conservation tournament that we came up with because we're just saying like the last one, we had the circle the wagon social. We got about 250 people that night, county representatives, elected officials, federal congressmen, sportsmen and women that all came, ag producers that came. We're trying to get people something to do to be able to show up and do something in conjunction with. A reason to go besides your minute and a half of testimony. speaker-0: Make a weekend of it. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah, it'd be cool if you wanted to put the Go Hunt logo on it. You get a sponsorship. You can put a table up. can turn around. You can do whatever the hell you want to, as far as I'm concerned. As long as you don't wear a golden knight's hat. speaker-0: Sure be wearing golden heights. Well we got one more game to close out, then I'll for sure. speaker-1: If they come back, we're gonna be sitting here going, I wish I wouldn't went to that game. speaker-2: Yeah! I'm bowling. ⁓ speaker-1: with your pads and your stick. So we're hoping to be able to throw a good support together for that. giving people a reason to participate besides the boring two-day meeting where your agenda item is up for an hour tops. But because of the rulemaking notice that was given from the commissioners to CPW. to revise what their original recommendations on the recommendation for denial was, who knows where this is going to go. There's so many exemptions and so many exceptions on this commercial fur ban that it's going to be hard for them to figure out a way to facilitate and implement this in any way, shape, or form. Because they've said over and over, the anti is Center for Biological Diversity. This is not a hunting or a trapping prohibition. We just don't want you to sell this stuff. speaker-0: Right. speaker-1: Okay, whatever you say. Yeah, maybe we should make recipes out of it ⁓ speaker-0: It's like in Oregon, you can have a ranch. You just can't do anything with can have cattle. You just can't do anything with them. You just gotta live out there on your land and born and die. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: They said in Oregon that the cost of a restaurant, and they gave several different names, would likely quadruple because all of their product would have to come from out of state. speaker-0: I would think even more potentially like absolutely speaker-1: Yeah. mean, on Vegas, it all comes from somewhere anyway. It's not like there's... Correct. Yeah. It might come from Nevada, some of it, maybe. But, you know, we went to restaurant last night and, you know, half of it was from New Zealand because it was Wild Game. it was... speaker-3: You speaker-1: try to explain to people that they won't be able to turn on feed themselves. And I think that that starts drawing the line. speaker-0: Yeah. Crazy. Yeah, crazy. So the agenda for that meeting is it to hash out this fur band? Okay. speaker-1: That'll be the first meeting. Yeah, and then and then if it if it gets passed Then it will go for the second meeting in September in La Junta. Mm-hmm And that's where they'll actually vote on whatever the proposal I Anticipate based upon this current makeup, which I forgot to mention which it just nauseates a hell lot of me Commissioner Jay touched him speaker-0: Whatever they want. speaker-1: the animal rights attorney for HSUS, Wild Earth Guardians, and all the ones that he's been formulated with over the last 30 years. He's now the chair of the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission. They elected him chair. So that, mean, that, speaker-2: Well, great. Yeah, so tonight. speaker-1: See, now we're getting into the bad part of the conversation. speaker-0: That sounds great. speaker-2: Yeah, so I can give you some talk. speaker-1: points if you want to look great I did it I did a dossier on mr. mr. Tudston and I give him kudos and I've said this many times jays it a likable individual to have a conversation with mm-hmm would you want to go out drinking with him probably not because you know where that conversation would lead and then you could you restrain yourself I don't know yeah but he's not he's not a bad guy you can have it have a conversation with him but he's a his ideological warfare that he's created because he was an attorney for 30 years. You know, when he first got on the commission back in 2020, that was during COVID, but we beat everything back. And he even said an apologize to his former employers. I just have to go with the science. I'm sorry, I get a vote against you. And we won 11 to zero and 11 to zero and 11 zero. Now the tides have turned, the tables have swapped, and he's sitting at the head position up there. and you're going to have up to five new commissioners coming in that don't know squat, that are going to take the guidance of the chair, and the guidance of the chair is now the wizard. speaker-0: Yeah. How long is he going to be the head of the commission? speaker-1: He could be there probably for a year. He's going to be hard to dismiss unless it's for cause because of the positions that he's held so far. He's very strategic and very statistical and analytical. speaker-0: Sure. Yeah. speaker-1: He's not one that you would want to be leading the charge for the best part of wildlife management and our natural resource conservation. speaker-0: A lot to be determined in the next year. speaker-1: Yeah, especially stop and think. That's another plug to get your ass down there to Ignacio. that's going to be the first meeting that he's chair, is at the fur band meeting. That's his first chair meeting. And if we show up and have 14 people and there's 100 anti's, well, it ain't going to be very good. ⁓ But the bowling tournament that we're trying to do, all the proceeds from that bowling tournament, speaker-0: That's first one. speaker-1: go to a Native American tribal youth charity. ⁓ we're just trying to do something different as opposed to let's all show up to a meeting, let's all get pissed off, let's all turn around and walk away, and then I'm never going to another meeting again. Did I draw a speaker-0: Didn't get my way. speaker-1: And we think that we need to turn around and continually try to hold the line at different levels. And to be able to do that, maybe it sets a playbook and a roadmap for other states and other entities. Because I know they're fighting back like hell in Washington. Those guys are really doing a great job. speaker-0: Yeah. What's the opposition like in terms of numbers that show up to one of these? speaker-1: Well, we had 500 in Westminster. There was about 50 of them. Stop and think of that. We had 450, 500 people in there at any given time, 50 of them. And the commission ignored all of the science, all of the data, the recommendations for denial, and then looked out into the room with a security metal detector SWAT team and everything else out in the parking lot and turned around and actually went against the experts. ⁓ speaker-0: Create. speaker-1: I don't know they got balls or they don't have no brains, but one of the two. speaker-0: pretty sure which one it is. speaker-1: Yeah, you know, now if you'd have seen the last commission meeting when the meeting first started, Commissioner Dallas May, Commissioner Silva Blaney, who was just appointed and confirmed and Commissioner Tija Kober voted against approving the minutes of the previous meeting. Voted against approving the minutes. I've been in boards and chairs and lots of different things. There might have been discussion about it might have been a revision. to not vote in favor of approval of the minutes. everybody else was sitting around going, well, what does that mean? How do we do that? And the attorney got involved. But you can do this. And then the chair was like, I don't know. What do we do? They had no recommendation for suggestions to change the minutes, amending the minutes. They just said, what we did last meeting, we don't even know what was voted on. And so I think it helps us. speaker-0: We're not gonna approve. speaker-1: in trying to lay out a plan of action and moving forward because this was not the proper process, protocol and procedure was not anything you would file in some sort of level of this is the way meetings should be run. There was a guy got up in Westminster and he said, I've been, I've run future farmers of America's and 4-H meetings with 14 year old kids that had been run more professionally than what you guys did yesterday. And if you listen to any of the public comments and testimonies that we came up with on our social, I'm confused. I'm not sure. I'm confused. I'm confused. This is statements from the commissioners. Well, that should give you a pause for concern that these are the ones making the decisions on all our stuff and nobody really knew what the hell they were voting on. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. speaker-1: See, now that Lorenz are getting mad now. speaker-2: I'm down. ⁓ speaker-0: ⁓ Now I'm deep in my thoughts. speaker-1: He's like, okay, I got to think about this post. I'm going to do this. speaker-0: Why do you think they don't get more support? I mean, why do they get 50 people instead of 500? Yeah, it's the loud squeaky one. speaker-1: because there's not very many of them. squeaky. Yeah, I to say something about that too trail because when we did the one 27 campaign, the amount of individuals. I'm trying to be. Yeah, because it's your podcast, not ours. speaker-0: politically correct. speaker-2: I want to be invited back sometime. speaker-0: You can say whatever you want. speaker-1: I think, listen to the amount of people that we heard, mostly elderly women, that said, I didn't know this was going on and if I had known I would have, okay, right there, take a step back. This crap's been going on for the 125 years. You didn't pay attention because nobody brought it to your attention because you didn't give a rat's ass because you don't pay attention to things that you don't know about. really honestly believe that now they feel a platform and it's almost like a social gathering to where they can get together and go, I'm going to travel with my friends and we're going to stand in solidarity and we're all going to say the same thing in chronological incremental order because that's what we were told to say. If you listen to what Samantha Miller said on some of the clips that we provided and what Steve Rinella turned around and put out, that's not somebody's interpretation. That's what she said. That's what she did. Those were quotes and citations or video clips of what she promoted. If you listen to the talking points that they give to their followers, they don't veer off a script one bit. They don't have a brain to turn around and make their own decisions because they don't know the subject matter and they can't argue or debate it because they don't know anything about it because they never paid attention to it because it's not in their wheelhouse. They just don't think you should kill anything for any reason under the sun. And as I mentioned about the elk hunting side of it, we don't kill anything for any reason under the sun when 9 % of the people are harvesting stuff, 91 % are not. They're paying for all of it so everybody can turn around and have the privilege of bitching about it or supporting it or engaging in it or just knowing that it's there. Those are confusing things to the majority of the people. When you ask them why, they go, well, you just can't. Well, how should we? Well, it can't be like this. Well, how should it be? Well, it needs to be different. Give me some suggestions. They don't have any of that because they just, their hard stop is zero. That's not a heart, but anyway. Zero, zero. speaker-2: That was a zero. Yeah. speaker-0: You've been on the TikTok, haven't you? speaker-2: I can't do it. speaker-1: that though, mine looks like a liver or something. speaker-2: after. speaker-0: look at it. Yeah. No, it's interesting. mean, as you're talking, I'm thinking about if I take myself back to I remember being, I was probably 17 and I was on a spike hunt. And I hadn't bought a permit. And my brother had a permit. And we were out spike hunting and my dad was with us. And we have this herd of elk and there's a couple spikes. And I remember telling my dad, I should just shoot that spike and I'll run to town and get a tag. Cause that's what it's for. Right? You buy the tag to tag the animal that you killed and you harvest it. And I remember him giving me like a really stern lecture. He was like, you're not paying for that animal. The permit you pay is for your opportunity to be out here. It's your opportunity to experience this landscape, to see that animal, to potentially get a chance to harvest it. Right. And I don't. As you talk this through, it's like, that's what resonates resonate. I say, resonate and somebody keeps calling me out on So my apologies, if you're listening, I can, that's a rough one for me, but point being, think the 500 show up for that because they understand it. It's like, it's deeper to them and they can talk you through. They have talking points. They understand conservation of animals because it's not just like this flash in a pan. like the 50 that show up for the other side, right? That they don't know anything about it, they have to be spoon fed it. They don't live and breathe it. It's not a lifestyle. They don't get it, they're not passionate about it. And I just, to me, the passion's always gonna win out, I hope, is what I'm saying. And the science behind it. And the science. The science and data behind it. That's what should win out every time. And that's what we have in our favor every time. Sure. I mean, that's... I'm hopeful. I hear you. I mean, the commission is like, yeah, I get that. And all the challenges and the elections and the potential turnover for governor and what that might all mean. And, you know, we've had like some few setbacks, but like, cause I sit and listen, I just continually keep going back. Like, yeah, people get it. Like people are smart. There are people out there that like you can lot, can, you can reason with, know? And I feel like there's more of those people than not. It's just whether you can reach them and reach them and get them. have the time to listen to the actual. You know the the facts the science the passion behind it. There's more of them and get their voice going Yeah, there's more of those people that are level-headed and will understand the benefits to it Mm-hmm and the passion with it Yeah, that would you know then support it then there are the crazy ones who just say what they say and then can't back anything up about speaker-1: That's what was so... Be-wildering to us when we did 127 and 308. Because I spent a lot of time in Denver at the Capitol and doing the other functions because CPW's office is up there, the main headquarters. And just driving around going, how the hell did we win up here? How did we... Because we messaged to the right people, we had the right message. But at the same time we had the complimentary... speaker-2: remark. speaker-1: message that was going on with 308 because people said, wait a minute, you're gonna ban cowboy hats and fishing lures and Native American crafts? Wait a minute. speaker-0: Hey, if you were batting cowboy hats in LA right now, you might not get that one through. Without it right now down there. They are all the rage. speaker-2: Yeah, they're all. Yes. speaker-1: All sorts of cowboys. speaker-0: All the rage. speaker-1: right now. It's interesting because to your point, people have elected in Colorado, they've elected more Democrat individuals than they have Republicans, for sure. But when it gets down to the value side of things, you can see that there's a different perspective. Do I want animal cruelty? No. But do I want it to the extent that I'm not going to be able to eat meat or kill mice or get rid of my grandpa's cowboy hat or my son's fly fishing experiences? No. They want a level of middle of the road civility and understanding and science and data. speaker-0: Yeah. is that middle ground stability and it always has been. speaker-1: Yeah, and there's a component under this constitutional right to hunt and fish that first and foremost, heritage. Second, science. Third, the economics that play into this because you have to have money to be able to manage whether you decide to pursue or hunt it or not. And just for the record, for the people that ever listen, it's this way in every state. The economic input, the driving engine behind wildlife management and the license purchasing back and forth of what you get out of something is such a benefit to every single species in that state. Colorado, we've got 78 game species, 961 species of wildlife, and 7,000 of some odd flipping invertebrates that they made part of the species that I don't know what we're supposed to do with the damn things. You can't eat crickets, and you can't turn around and do this, and you can't do that. But there's so much that where you can actually put it on the plate, not to eat, in front of somebody and go, this is what we have. And they're like, yeah, I think we should do that. It should be appropriate like that. I don't want it to be mismanaged. I don't want it to be abused. I don't want you to slaughter it. I don't want you to extirpate it. But when you can talk to them and get them to understand, the managing agency over here, this Colorado Parks and Wildlife, which is under the Department of Natural Resources. And now that the governor has turned around and codified that and said, now we should turn around and work to educate about the benefits of healthy food and we're gonna have a shopping network or a food shopping deal or whatever. There's something there that the general public can bite onto. I don't know what the makeup is in Nevada, but Colorado's 27 % Democrats, 23 % Republicans, 50 % independents. That is not a 100 % solid blue state. It's not 98 % of Democrats. There's some leeway and some variance that goes into that. you really get into the politics of most other states. pretty close to that makeup. Geographically, somewhere, there's red. Geographically, somewhere, there's purple. Somewhere, there's just straight blue. Maybe it's 40 different shades of blue in different places. But the average person doesn't want all of this speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-2: for all that. speaker-1: All of that, they're somewhere in that middle. And we always talk about this, and I know you guys do in your business. If there's 5 or 10 % pro and 5 10 % con, there's 80 % in the middle that they really don't care. And I'm finding out that they really don't care enough to turn around and say, we should do it by checking the box, unless we're getting the overwhelming support on a constitutional right to hunt and fish, which is not ballot box biology. Ballot box biology has to do with individual preferences of should you kill this or should you kill that. This is only codifying what is currently existing in current statute 33.1.101 of the Colorado Revised Statutes. The general public doesn't know any of that, but they shouldn't be turning around and going and checking a box on, should we hunt bears? Yeah. Should we turn around and breed cattle? Should we do pest control? No. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Should we allow the agency that manages our wildlife resources under the Department of Natural Resources to have an unequivocal authority to be able to do that? Yes. Constitutional amendment codifies that. Check that? Yes. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's like the language says here, it says the right of the state to regulate hunting and fishing and wildlife management for sound scientific wildlife conservation. It says it all. speaker-1: And if you see the anti's right now, they're like, don't take this away. Read their social posts. Don't take this away. This has nothing to do with taking it away. has to make sure to solidify it. When the anti's, the extremists come out there and say, hunting is not under attack in Colorado, we can turn around and go, what about 127? What about 308? What about 1323? What about 1258? What about... You just keep going down the list. How is it not under attack? speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: Well those were specific attacks. It wasn't a broad attack. It's like, yeah, but the specific attacks... I mean, you cut nine of your fingers off, you can't grip anything. speaker-0: attack. Yeah. speaker-2: Thanks. speaker-0: Do you ever get with any of these individuals and just say, just like, cut the bullshit. Just like call a spade a spade. Like tell us what it is exactly. mean, it's, it's lit. It's like this gas lighting, right? They're going to give you all these things around the edge and then say, no, it's not that. It's just like, come on. speaker-1: The international and national connectivity to these individuals in these organizations is they're like locusts on a corn field. When there's no corn, there's no locusts. They don't want any corn at all. They don't want you and I to be the field. don't want you and I to turn around and harvest or manage anything. To get them to understand that we realize what their mission is, but they don't. They argue the fact that this is like on this speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: The fur ban. This is not a hunting or a trapping ban. Okay, well if it's not, why do you care what we do with it? Because you've been trying to take it away at every single level. We've done focus groups, working groups, stakeholder groups, done ballot initiatives, turned around and done pieces of legislation, commissioned petitions. You were unsuccessful. Now let's just go with what you do with it afterwards. I think that's a travesty in itself because it's just a smoke and mirrors campaign. It's an attempt to bewilder the general public speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: to thinking, ⁓ it's okay that you harvest it, but we just don't want you to do anything with it. To me, it's almost like on the furbearer side because there are specific classification of wildlife species. It's like saying, we'll let you hunt elk, but you can't eat it. They're the same thing. I mean, you want to turn around and use natural resources. Let's use beaver pelts. Let's use coyote pelts. Let's use the jaws and the teeth and the claws and all the other accoutrements and all the accessories that come out of it. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Maybe it's the meat off of some of them. Maybe it's beaver tails. mean, how many places have seen where have badger claw earrings or, you know, bobcat claw in your ⁓ Native American jewelry and stuff? Who are these people to say that you should waste all of this stuff? They want you to turn around and want to waste it. And I think that that's a travesty because it sets a precedent. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-1: But it also sets a precedent to where they say it's only about fur-bearers. But if you look at the precedent it'll set, what about dog chews from antlers? What about capes from bighorn sheep? What about all the other accoutrements that go along with salvaging wildlife parts and pieces? How about deer and elk gloves? It's the hide, it's the same thing, it's just not gonna have the fur on it. If they don't want you to do this here and you allow that to be captured, Why should anybody care what you're going to do with this stuff over here? And I think it's easily taken away from if you don't turn around and put up a stance. That's why you need to be at the commission meeting. Bowling to bowling. It's called a rolling thunder conservation bowling tournament. got 24 lanes. We just started this two weeks ago, but we've got seven sponsored teams already trying to get commission some of the good commissioners. We don't want the bad commissioners. speaker-2: Ha ha ha ha. speaker-0: at the Bullseye Tournament. speaker-2: Yeah. speaker-0: Might be fun if they're terrible bowlers and they just show up and get whipped. You're going to get whipped later. Got whipped at bowling. ⁓ speaker-2: Yeah speaker-1: And the meeting. we bet. Yeah, we win. You take this off the plate. You win. We'll turn around and give it to you. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. So I would, so action items vote, get registered to vote and vote for this Colorado right to hunt and fish initiative. So sign up, right? Sign up, sign the petition. And then go bowling, show up and go to the commission. ⁓ speaker-1: Go bowling. Go bowling. And I want to say too, I mean, it's not like your listeners are just centric to one location. I mean, imagine you got a good following in Colorado. prepare in other states. You know, I've said this on, I did the Robbie Denning podcast with the Rock Slide here a couple of weeks ago. And ⁓ next week, I'm going to do Brunella and then Wild Sheep and Jason Metzinger and I are sitting out trying to get the word out because people need to understand that it's an ongoing effort. If it's in your state, fight it. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: If you think it's coming to your state, prepare to fight it. If it's not in your state yet, you better turn around and think about what you're going to do to turn around and build and prop something up. Because it's not going to stop with Colorado, Oregon, and Washington. So we need money. mean, the money's coming in from a national level. But CRWM has to turn around and still fight the ballot initiative stuff and the legislative stuff and the commission stuff. And to be able to have some sort of an opportunity. What we've been telling people is don't let the victories of the past be the last thing that you support because the anti's look at this as one jink in the armor. We lost here, we lost there, we lost here, but look at what we could win here. We can't afford to let them do that. They turn around and win in Colorado this election. You're going to see a big movement in New Mexico and Arizona. And I wouldn't be surprised if they don't turn around and try to help support Oregon and Washington. to a point where they more solidify what they're actually trying to go after. And the international order of T. Roosevelt wants to see this in the remaining 26 states, the constitutional right to hunt and fish. Keep it rolling. Absolutely. We have two raffles that we're doing, action item. Not sure when this podcast is going to air, but the deadline is. ⁓ So good. So that deadline is the 12th. speaker-0: what they're actually trying to go at. Yeah, keep it rolling. speaker-1: And if you haven't seen it online, we've got a hill ranch elk hunt in Southern Colorado. Damn. Takes 34 points to draw on a ranching for wildlife tag. And that itself is only available to residents. If you apply through the regular draw. If you want to pay X amount of dollars to be able to get in to where Cameron Haynes and Eastmans and Lee and Tiffany Lakowski and all the others have hunted that Bobby Hill works a deal out with them. Bobby donated a hunt. that we ended up raffling or auctioning at the Wild Sheep Foundation when we did the 127 campaign. He did another one. Now we're raffling it. The Safari Club International Colorado Chapter is the raffle ⁓ team that's doing it. We encourage people, it's 50 bucks a piece, it's three for a hundred. But you can contribute to the state of Colorado, to our efforts, all the money goes to CRWM to help these fights. It's a phenomenal piece of property. ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah, can they ranch is legendary yeah, can they buy that online they can buy is there a limit to the number tickets they come speaker-1: ⁓ No, actually there's not. But if you are a resident in the state of Colorado, as an example, you don't have to be a resident for this raffle. But if you're a resident in the state of Colorado, you have a 30 times likely better chance of winning on the raffle than you do in the draw. Because for one, you'd have to have 34 points and the people that have the 34 points and there's only two tags available, pretty soon you just look at the odds and go, yeah, you're never going you're never gonna draw you're never gonna get it so all that money turns around and goes to CRWM and our efforts you can go to SCIColorado.org you can also go to our regular website and it'll link you over in case you can't remember the one but it's Save the Hunt Colorado.com SCIColorado.org and then the other raffle that's going on is with our one of our board members it's real charters real Alaska charters and that's Luke Weedle And it's a fishing trip for two off the coast of Sitka, Alaska. He's got his own boat up there. He's a boat captain. And it's for halibut and ling cod and salmon. You can fill the boat up with other people if you want. you get two out of that. And it's $50 a piece or three for $100 as well. I want to say, both of those raffles right now, if you remember back in 127, we did the mountain lion raffle. Both of those right now are rivaling with two and a half weeks left of what the entire raffle did on 127 and 2024, each individually. Yeah, I mean, yeah. Because people see the value in this. For one, they like supporting an organization I think that they know that there's a chance for victory on. And everybody likes to be part of a winning team. to see what speaker-0: Each individual. Like the nights? Like the nights, I love that. speaker-1: Give me your logo so you when you come to the bowling tournament I can have some shirts made up for you. Go hunt nice. speaker-2: I couldn't. speaker-0: I couldn't resist. That was a perfect drop right there. You walked right into that speaker-1: I was gonna talk to you about tickets afterwards. speaker-0: opportunity because you speaker-1: He just doesn't know when to shut up. You could've said that offline and you still got the tickets. speaker-2: It's like speaker-0: I just couldn't help it. speaker-2: There's just an speaker-3: No ⁓ speaker-1: Opportunity for people to get engaged and help fund. you said this, know, Mike and Mike Castellan, Charles Whitman of Howl4Wildlife, who we're partnering with on this on this whole 120 or the ⁓ Constitutional Right to Hunt and Fish campaign. But everybody who's a sportsman has either thought about hunting Colorado, has tried to Colorado, is hunting Colorado or has hunted Colorado in some capacity. And if you care about what goes on in our constitutional efforts around the country, if you care what goes on when it comes to science-based wildlife management, continue to support us in Colorado. Because, you know, I can't say how hard we try without showing the victories and the agony of defeat. Things are going to get better. we want everybody else to have a written playbook and the roadmap of what our accomplishments were. But our accomplishments were because of partners like Go Hunt or Meat Eater or Wild Sheep Foundation or Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation or SCI. ⁓ Without partners, we can't go up against these ones that wherever they lose and wherever they win, they just keep making more money. We have to do it collectively and we have to figure out how to continually hold the line. speaker-0: Yeah. Well, man, you're doing good work. This is a good, this has been a good one. I this is a good one. Yeah. look forward to, I look forward to these of, uh, you coming back where, know, we can talk about stuff like this, where it feels like, yeah, we're, making headway in the right direction instead of just. speaker-1: Thanks. Well, because she has to continually get her tattoos, we're going to come back in September. Love that. And we'll know then if you guys are available. Of course, you'll probably be out hunting. I'll have to deal with a janitor or somebody. speaker-2: Karen and So I'm at speaker-1: see in July. We'll make a swap. But if we get signatures, there'll be a little bit more to talk about because then you're going to start to see things really ramp up. Right. And this will probably be, in my opinion, the largest constitutional right to hunt and fish issue that anybody has had to go up against. you know, Florida was a it wasn't a slam dunk for those guys, but it was pretty easy. speaker-0: You might see me in October. speaker-1: And ⁓ this would be the first state that's been adamantly opposed to conservation and science-based wildlife management practices because of the leadership that we've been a Troy administration. If we get it on the ballot, you're going to see the gloves come off at both sides. And I think it's going to be fun to watch. It'll be better than the Avs and the Knights games. Excited though. Excited unless we're on that side. speaker-0: Yeah. don't know about that, man. Pretty fun. speaker-2: That's one s***. We don't want to with so one s***. speaker-0: You want to be the Knights in this equation. Yeah. Yeah. We got one more game. But yeah. We appreciate you coming. That was good. It's always good having you guys. Dropped a lot of good information and some good calls to action. Appreciate your guys' help and support. A lot of good momentum going in right direction. And I think it's good. think tides are turning. It's feeling optimistic, feeling good. speaker-1: If you don't mind, I'll plug the Three to Gates podcast. Over the course, we're doing one a week. We just approached our 100th episode, think it was Tuesday, I think the 100th episode just came out today. it gives an opportunity for people to stay apprised of what's going on, because we don't talk about ballistic coefficients and where to go scout and what to do. It's probably the most boring part of things, but we get a hell of a good following out of it, because people are craving up-to-date information. And so through the gates and we also tell them to go to the Instagram and the Facebook stuff to be able to follow us on a regular basis because it is pertinent and it is up to date and they'll see a bunch of stuff come up in the next couple weeks about the Ignacio Commission meeting as well to try to get people to show up to that. So if you guys need a place to stay let me know and I'll work something out. speaker-0: Very cool. I don't even know where that is at in Colorado. speaker-1: I was at Durango, like 20 miles out of Durango. speaker-0: Okay. Gotcha. It's not too far. Yeah, not bad. Not bad. I might pop in there and then just head straight to Kansas and see what's going on there. speaker-1: Get a bowling tournament? speaker-0: I do take in Kansas, Dan. I got a bit of a whitetail bug. know me. ⁓ Yeah. Well, thanks again. We really appreciate it. We'll look forward to, you know, kind of getting an update and it'll be it'll be really fun because we'll get the signatures. And it's gonna be fun. Yeah, it's be fun actually. I'm looking forward to it. speaker-1: So nothing better than turning around and trying to squash your enemies that have been trying to take your life and your life away. I'm sure we'll come out successful on it. appreciate the partnership, appreciate the friendship with you guys and always being accommodating. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we appreciate everything. Everything that both of you do. Hard work is over there. speaker-1: Thanks a bunch, guys.