Trail K: All right, folks, welcome back to the game trail podcast. I missed last week and I almost missed this week. I'm going to get this one out late today. It is Friday the fifth. I'm going to try to get this out today. ⁓ hopefully you guys got weekend plans so that you're, maybe you'll catch this on Monday or Tuesday of next week, but I did want to kick this one out. ⁓ going to do a solo podcast and it's one I've been trying to prep for. It's a little bit convoluted trying to. trying to put this into a solo podcast because the topic I'm going to cover, there's so much information, but ⁓ I wanted to do a podcast after I've had ample time to pour over the aero ballistics study that was just put out. I want to say maybe a week ago, it might've been two weeks ago at this point, but James Yates and then Tristan over at Precision Cut Archery, ⁓ Easton. I'm sure there's a bunch of other people that are involved in that, that are working behind the scenes. All those guys have done an awesome job. at putting together a bunch of data. And I've been pouring over that with a fine tooth comb. I've looked at all the photos. I've looked at every data point and then it's really hard to try to put it all into a podcast, at least that's organized and well done, but I'll do my best. Some of that, I just want to give you my takes. I wanted to cover some information that wasn't like the primary focus of that study. But it's information that they put out there, ⁓ based on tests that they did. And I think it's pretty cool information. ⁓ I've watched James's videos that he's put out on YouTube and I can't remember if he's covered these little tidbits and, ⁓ I'm sure probably at some point he will, but it's just stuff that I picked up on and I wanted to talk about and just highlight, ⁓ in an episode that I put out today. So I'm going to dive into that, ⁓ before I get going. I wanted to thank marsupial. gear there in Arizona. ⁓ we just got back late last night. ⁓ went down there for an excursion. was a, a pretty quick trip. So I think we left Vegas at six o'clock on, must've been Wednesday morning. ⁓ drove to Phoenix, spent the entire day with those guys, filming some stuff and getting to see their facility. I've been a fan of Marsupial gears, Bino harnesses since he came out with them. ⁓ It always made sense to me that the flap had to open forward so that you could get your binoculars in and out of your Bino harness with one hand. Cause I always have my bow in my left hand. So that's always made sense to me. But the growth of those guys have, ⁓ have made in the product lineup. And then it's just really cool to see everything American made. We got to go into their. little sewing facility and watch all the people work and, you know, so, and, know, got to meet, ⁓ one of the guys that does, ⁓ helps out with proto design and just talk to him about how he cuts out all the individual parts and pieces and build these prototypes. It was really neat. ⁓ so chat out to, ⁓ to those guys at marsupial. ⁓ it was just a fun trip. And then the evening, ⁓ they had lined out a bow fishing trip for us. So we went out and went bow fishing all night. And, ⁓ Nash, the guy that was kind of the boat captain had all the equipment. just a passionate dude about bow fishing and hunting in general, but we fished the entire night. think we got there just after dark. fished, we saw the, saw the sun come up and then, ⁓ got the boat loaded and then jumped at the truck and head North. got home late last night, but really cool trip. So I just wanted to say thanks to Jim and Jared over at marsupial. ⁓ and then Nash with the boat. Uh, just a cool trip, really fun. Um, I'd never been bowfishing and, it was, it was cool. I can definitely see why guys get into it they're passionate about it. uh, fun trip. Excuse me. Voice broke. Um, so shout out to those guys. The other thing I wanted to cover, uh, Matthew's archery obviously is a sponsor of the podcast. I appreciate what those guys do. Uh, I'm always excited to get out and shoot my bow. I know I've got this weekend free, which is one of the only weekends that, uh, I've got some days where I can. probably run up and shoot for a few hours and maybe fine tune and work on some things, but, ⁓ looking forward to that. And I love my Matthews both. So I'm looking forward to it. ⁓ also promo code, you guys can use the promo code game trail. If you want to sign up for a go hunt insider account, if you do that, you're going to get 50 bucks back in the go hunt gear shop. ⁓ draw results are starting to come back. had no luck in Nevada, ⁓ for me or my kids. ⁓ Colorado, did pick up an elk tag, which was nice. And, ⁓ we've still got some more that are starting to come out. So Arizona deer and sheep got my app in hoping to draw something there. Maybe sheep tag would be incredible. ⁓ also Idaho controlled dread deadline, which is today for deer elk and antelope. ⁓ I'm looking forward to get that result back. And then, ⁓ Wyoming. So Wyoming deer and antelope. I stayed to the very last moment thinking about applying. I was just going to pick up points in the summer for those two species, but it was approaching midnight and I just couldn't let a year go by where I didn't apply for antelope up there. So I took more of a swing for the fences approach. I don't know that I'll draw, but there's always a chance. And I just couldn't lay there in bed and think about not applying for antelope because I just love hunting those things. They're just a really cool animal and if it boils down to it I don't get an Antelope tag for this year, I'll be a little bit bummed out. I could have drawn tags, but with my hunt schedule, it would be kind of four-centered if I did, but I just could not apply for Antelope. So yeah, hoping those results come back. But there's always a, it's always a good time of year to have an insider account. You'll have turn back tags coming back. You'll have the OTC opportunities that are open in some of those states like Utah, my home state in the summer for spike elk or any bull units. So that was an opportunity to pick up a permit and there's always a use case scenario for your insider account. So yeah, sign up, use the, use the promo code game trail and get 50 bucks back into gear shop. Um, along with that, I should say, don't, I don't always hit it, but if you want to save some money in the go hunt gear shop, you can use the promo code game trail and you're going to get 10 % off on. pretty much every brand in the shop. There's a few that won't allow it, but for the most part, if you're looking to pick something up, ⁓ use that promo code game trial and save yourself 10%. All right. With that, ⁓ let's talk some aero, aero ballistics and aero ballistics studies. ⁓ I guess one thing I did want to say is, ⁓ James and those guys are selling hats and hoodies and t-shirts to help with the cost of doing a study like that. So as soon as I'm done with this, I plan on jumping on and ordering a hat or a hoodie. ⁓ Just to, just to help it. Cause I'm obviously using it. I'm talking about it today. I think they've done a really cool service for a bunch of people that are just love shooting bows and arrows and love bow hunting. All the broadhead testing is real good stuff that we can use to take into the field to make us a better bow hunter in the fall. So, ⁓ yeah, if you like what they've done, ⁓ if you've gained something, you know, I'd encourage you to, maybe pick up a product to help fund their research in the future. ⁓ with that, so I want to talk about some of the things that maybe flew a little bit under the radar. They weren't primary focuses of the study, but I think they're important nonetheless. So the first one, ⁓ arrow squaring. so when I build a set of arrows, ⁓ I've talked about it before, but what I'll do is I'll take a raw dozen shafts out of the packaging. And my first step is I'll pick one in and I will square that in. So I'll take a Sharpie, make a silver marker on the end of it. put it in my G5 arrow squaring device and I'll square that end off. And I'll take that end, I'll put it in the jig and I will cut the other end. And the reason I do that is because I want the arrow, ⁓ is it sits in the jig to be square. ⁓ my jig is, ⁓ you know, it's not one that's built on the knock receiver. So it's, just cut from the raw shaft, the bare end of the shaft and I'll make a cut. And then after I make that cut, I'll square that end. And then I'll flip it around in the jig and I'll cut from the other end and then I will square that in. So when I'm done with a dozen arrows, I'll have made, you know, two cuts and I'll have squared it three times in essence. One of the interesting things that I found out, and I've always done that just to make me, you know, make myself feel warm and fuzzy, make me feel good. I want to feel like I'm building the best arrow that I can. ⁓ but I've never really been able to like quantify, haven't like tracked it on whether I think it's more accurate or not, but I thought it was cool. part of this study. What they found is that squaring your arrow, ⁓ the knock-in pictured, it seems to be meaningful. So they shot a couple of groups, one where they just cut it and inserted the knocks. And I assume they cut and just did the inserts. And then another group of arrows where they squared the end of the arrow after they cut it. And the groups with the squared end, ⁓ shot better was a tighter group. And if you. Jump into their Aero study. That was a cool thing that they did this year is that you can actually look at pictures of every single, you know, group, whether they're, they're talking about broadheads or vein configurations. ⁓ you got to see a picture and I'm, I'm a visual guy. like to, I like to see, you know, the results. And for me, like those were meaningful just to get to scroll through the pictures and look at the various group sizes. ⁓ it resonates with me. ⁓ so I thought it was cool that they did that, but. Take home square your arrows makes a difference on how tight your groups are. ⁓ next one. So speed and accuracy. This is kind of an interesting one because over the years I have, I've said this and it's probably, it's probably taken from, you know, things that I've heard from people that I, I respect. basically that a fast bow, really fast bow with a broad head is finicky that it's hard to tune that it's not as accurate. And kind of the window that I've always aimed for is like that 280 to maybe 295 ish feet per second somewhere in that window. Um, and most often I land somewhere between 280 and 290. And the reason I've done that is because, you know, I had this assumption that it was a more accurate arrow was easier to tune. Uh, so what they did, it was interesting. So they tested it. and said, they said that they built two different configurations, one that shot 290 feet per second versus another setup that shot 200 or 325 feet per second. And what they found is that speed does not seem to be a meaningful driver of accuracy or forgiveness. They shot the same components, vanes, broadheads, alike. They performed about the same on both rigs. And by every metric we measured, mean radius group size and torque induced broad head drift from field point. They found that there was really no meaningful difference between a setup that was shooting 325 feet per second versus one that was shooting 290 feet per second. So that's a of a paradigm shift for me be honest. ⁓ and it's, it's a welcome one. It's interesting that you can shoot a faster setup and not have to worry about losing anything in forgiveness or accuracy. And I'll talk about a little bit more as I get into it, but with the tunability of the modern bows, all the various, you know, features that are built within those that you can tune a bow. think you can tune those out even at a high, high rate of speed. So that was a cool finding and it's got me, you know, thinking about, ⁓ you know, can I jump up to 75 pounds, get some more feet per second and expect to have the same accuracy? Can I, ⁓ you know, build a lighter arrow? potentially to get some more feet per second. And it's a, it's an interesting, interesting idea, interesting thought. I'm going to have to kick that around and see what I come up with, but that was a cool finding. ⁓ another one, this is kind of quirky. So over the years, ⁓ I've often wondered like, what is the ideal paper tuning distance? ⁓ my tuning process is primarily paper tuning and then I'll jump to broadhead tuning. So what I'll do is I'll, I'll shoot my arrows through paper. ⁓ Sometimes I'll shoot the raw shaft, the bare shaft through paper just to get it close. ⁓ it's going to change a little bit when you put veins on it. Cause it's a dynamic, ⁓ you know, dynamic spine, dynamic arrows. You, you, change things, but, ⁓ I will start with paper tuning. I'll paper tune my arrows and then, you know, I'll practice with them and then not too long after I'll put some broadheads on them and I'll start to shoot those out to distance. What I'm trying to do is get my bare shafts and my broadheads to hit together. ⁓ obviously. ⁓ you know, broadheads, the surface area of a broadhead is as, as such as it's going to hit slightly different than a field tip. really an extended yardage, but within a kind of a moderate distance, you know, 20 to 60, 70 yards field tip and a broadhead are going to hit together out of a well-tuned bow. so that's, that's what I've done is I've broadhead tuned paper tune. But I've often wondered like, what's the ideal distance of, you know, a paper tune, because as you shoot an arrow out of a bow, that arrow is flexing. And I've often wondered, does your paper tune, you know, get really give you the, the true, the, the true best tune and at what distance. So they did some testing and they said that based on the test paper tuning should be conducted at around 10 to 15 feet from the shooter. If the goal is to match launch, yawn as visible as possible. In essence, the way I read that is the, the, the truest, the, the telltale sign of like how in tune your bow is to get like optimal tune. That's the distance 10 to 15 feet. Um, I have kind of adopted over the years, I've felt like six, seven, six, seven, six or seven yards has been kind of, uh, what I thought gave me the best results as far as tune. ⁓ which kind of falls in line with that. ⁓ I do know people that tune from, you know, three yards and then they'll step back to maybe eight, eight or nine yards. then, you know, 10, something like that, 10 to 12 yards and they'll paper tune at all three distances. ⁓ I've not gone that far and, ⁓ you know, based on the results, I think it's, it's telling because they actually, you know, they, mapped it all. So it's, can see on Tristan's website, which is pretty cool. So 10 to 15 feet. That was a neat little take home. ⁓ here's another little fun one. so I remember a number of years ago, this is where it started for me anyway. I'd be interested in other people if they've, if it started somewhere else, but in my, my memory, ⁓ I remember seeing Levi morning, do it. Morgan Levi, Morgan, Morgan do a video where he was talking about the natural. Clocking of an arrow. So the way an arrow rotates or spins coming out of the bow without any veins on it and He was saying that your bowstring depending on how it's twisted when it's built will naturally clock your arrow either left or right and What he was advocating for if I remember is that he's trying to match the helical direction on his arrows to the natural clock of the bowstring as the arrow leaves. And I think he said, somebody out there has put a figure on it and I wanted to say it was like 80 % or 90 % of the bows naturally clock the arrow to the left based on the way that bow strings are built. So with that, over the years, what I've done since I heard that was I would take a raw shaft, I would make a silver sharpie mark on it, and I would shoot it out of my bow at relatively close range, and then I would check the result. on the Sharpie mark to see which direction it had rotated. And then I would fletch my arrows to that rotation. And I mean, if you think about, I was to, if I was to fletch that in the opposite direction, in essence, your, your bowstring is naturally clocking your arrow one direction. Then the drag of that arrow and the veins moving through the air would start to clock it back the other direction. So it'd be like this, you know, start stop and You know, I, think I've heard, I've heard a number of people say that they don't really think it matters that much. but they did some testing here and I thought this was interesting to include. So it said that they did not see a meaningful performance benefit from matching helical direction to the Bose natural clocking direction. The matching clock left helical was not clearly better. ⁓ So that's interesting to me. ⁓ the reason that is, is because if there's not really any meaningful difference, it's not more accurate if you will, ⁓ to have a left helical to me, I'm going to go back to a right helical. And the reason I am is because if you think about the way the broadhead screws into your arrow, the, ⁓ it's going to tighten. onto the end of the, the insert with a right helical. If you think about a hunting situation, you shoot that into an animal, you go through hide soft tissue. There is the potential. If you fletch it to the left, that broadhead could, you know, essentially unscrew as you're going through that animal. Whereas if you fletch to the right, it's going to tighten that broadhead on, onto the end of the arrow. Now, I don't think this is a major factor. If you want to shoot left helical and you tighten your broadheads on to the end of your arrow, you know, good and snug. I don't think you're going to have an issue, but it's a what if. And for me, if there's no meaningful difference in accuracy in a left or right helical, ⁓ I might as well fletch them to the right and make sure that as my broadhead goes through a bull elk, that it's actually tightening on the end of the shaft. So I thought that was a little interesting tidbit that I wanted to include that I liked from this study. All right. Another portion of this. Optimal spine. So Tristan writes about optimal spine. And if you've bought arrows at a pro shop or even our website, typically what you'll do is you'll pull up the arrow selection chart and every company, whether it's gold dip or East Easton or victory, they'll have these arrow spine charts. And what it's based on is your draw length. So you'll take your draw length and really kind of what you're looking for is the length of the arrow. And the draw weight, and you're going to have a graph where you'll find where your draw length and the draw weight lines up. And it's going to suggest a spine that you should purchase and then build your arrows on. So, you know, for me, if I look at most charts, ⁓ it's going to put me in a, about a 300 spine. So that's like a 30 and maybe a half or three quarters inch draw. ⁓ 70 pounds and I'm kind of in between, I'm pretty close, you know, 300 to maybe a two 50 spine and you would build out that arrow. And I think that's, I think it's probably still, you know, rel it's still relatively good advice, my opinion, but basically he, he makes the point that he thinks that the ideal of an optimal spine from a tuning perspective is a bit of an artifact ⁓ of the past. ⁓ And that's explicitly to these modern compound bows with modern tuning systems. And I think that was an interesting statement. think he's right. ⁓ know, these, these modern bows, so Matthews, for example, has the limb shift technology. ⁓ If you look at a new Hoyt, for example, they've got the individual little screws that go into each limb pocket above the limb, which allows you to change the limb deflection. little bit, a, know, that's a tuning piece of their, their puzzle. ⁓ if you look at a Darten, they've got the limb shift they've got. It's not called limb shift, but in essence, it's ⁓ a shim either your cams left or right. I believe they've got, ⁓ actually I lied. I lied. Not Darten. That's a bow tech. ⁓ a Darten has, ⁓ the deflection on the limb that you can change. They also have a roller guard that you could move in or out. ⁓ They have a timing feature there built within their cables that you can kind of micro tune your timing on your cam. They just have a bunch of different features built into these modern bows that in essence allows you to tune the bow to whatever arrow it is that you have built out. And I think that's ⁓ a pretty, a pretty cool thing. Now we have, we have some more options. So if you want to tune your bow, somebody like me that is kind of in between. If I wanted to tune my bow to a 300 spine and I wanted to go lighter grains per inch on that arrow, I could do that with the tuning features built within my bow. I thought it was interesting. He goes on to say that on this Hoyt AX33, 28 inch draw and 70 pounds, they were able to tune every spine and point weight combination that they tested in their matrix to a bullet hole without touching the rest. So they made no rest adjustments. They made only adjustments on the bow. And they said on top of that, they did find that stiffer, a slightly stiffer spine always performed better in, in grouping. So was a little bit more accurate. Uh, the implication is to go as stiff as possible while still hitting your total weight, speed and front of center goals. So you can kind of play with it now, right? Like I can, I can build out a 300 spine arrow if I want to, um, and still tune it. Same with a 250 and I can look at the various 250 spine options on the market to see what grains per inch they are. And I can kind of pick and choose, you know, what my total arrow weight is, my spine, how stiff I want it to be. And I can really build out an arrow and tune the bow to the arrow, which is pretty cool. But I thought it was neat that they did that testing and you know, it's been my thought, especially with the bows the last couple of years that Matthew's Has produced and I've had a chance to shoot ⁓ But yeah, you've you really just opened up the door with these new bows and their tuning systems to a lot of different options Which is pretty cool and I was glad to see that, you know, they touched on that ⁓ He makes the comment he says we should also feel reasonably free to go less stiff than a spine chart suggest if we want to be as light as possible The bow tuned to every build in our range And the regression said stiffer was slightly better with front of center accounted for not dramatically better. So interesting. That was a good one. I thought it was pretty cool and I wanted to touch on that. All right. let's see, let's dive into some of this, this kind of the meat and potatoes of this. So I wanted to, I wanted to touch on and say, before I dive into broadhead testing and broadhead selection and vein configurations, vein selection that there's like, no, there really is no right answer. There's not like one that is heads and tails. the best option for everybody because each one does different things better or worse. ⁓ you really have to kind of decide as you look through the options that are on the market and as you look through this data, what is your personal priority? Like what are the things that matter to you the most? is it accurate and forgiveness? Is it noise? And they did these cool noise testings, which I'm going to talk about. or is it like the design of the head, way the blow, blades fold back if it's on a mechanical or whether they are rear deploying, or is it the durability? Is it the materials that the broadheads are made of? It's more of your, you know, your priority. ⁓ you know, penetration is a big one, which they did not test for. You know, they, tested for the things that, that they could in this study, which, ⁓ you know, was aerodynamic drag, ⁓ group tightness and then noise. Which is all well and good. Those are all, you know, things that are important to a broad head, but materials and, you know, design and possible penetration is also important to decide. And it might be more important to some people than, you know, some of these other things like drag or, or group size or noise. So those are things that you got to take into consideration. It's the same thing with veins. There's not really one clear winner that just does everything absolutely perfectly. for every single broadhead and arrow combination. that's why it's hard to talk about these is because there's so many, you know, rabble holes that you could dive down. You really kind of have to think through. And as I went through the, ⁓ the study and I was thinking about my own personal arrow build, ⁓ I got lost for, you know, maybe a day looking at all the information and I really had to kind of go back to square one. And before I looked at it again and kind of decided like, what, what are my priorities based on my specific, ⁓ bow build, you know, my draw length, my draw weight, what I'm hunting and kind of list them out and then go through the results of this to, to tease out what is the best possible option for me. Now know that's, that's the case for me and you know, other bow nerds like myself, but I think a lot of people, you know, they, they don't necessarily. want to do that. They want to go to their pro shop and they want to say, Hey, I heard trail say on his podcast that this is a good option. And, I'm going to touch on those, which I feel confident in being able to do, ⁓ because the, you know, the results are out there. ⁓ but again, for, for somebody that's a nerd that really wants to dive into that, it's all there and you got to kind of list them out and prioritize them for yourself and then build out your, your arrow. So, ⁓ I just, was trying to think of how to talk about this in an orderly manner, ⁓ without getting too convoluted, but I thought group size would be interesting. ⁓ knock my mic over. So I thought group size would be interesting to talk about first. ⁓ I think accuracy and the reason I say that is because accuracy for me is, is probably one of my highest priorities. I want an accurate broadhead arrow combo. I want it to be. As accurate as I can, want it to hit behind the pan. Uh, would rank accuracy over, um, you know, potential penetration. Um, the reason I say that is because I am fortunate enough to have a long draw and I can shoot some, you know, I can shoot 70 or 75 pounds if I want to. And, uh, I've got plenty of momentum and, uh, for me, accuracy is, is the number one priority on my list. So with that, I wanted to talk about group size. So in their testing, um, the field tip average group size was 3.77 inches. That was kind of all the testing that they did the all mechanical broadhead. So every mechanical broadhead they tested, they averaged out the group sizes. That was 4.83 inches. And then all fixed blade broadhead averaged out the group size was 10.07 inches. So the average, group size of fixed blades, all fixed blades was double that of the average of all mechanical broadheads that they tested. And it might be a little misleading because I know as I looked through the data, there were fixed blades that probably made that average greater than it would have been if they would have maybe added a few different other. ⁓ Fix blades, but I do think it's pertinent in that it shows that generally speaking, a mechanical head is more accurate and I would say more forgiving and they did some torque testing in this study. So where they would torque the bow kind of to mimic what you might face in the field. If you're amped up and you're shooting uphill or downhill and you put a little torque into the riser, ⁓ as you're trying to execute that shot and. Yeah. Generally speaking, a mechanical is more accurate than a fixed blade. ⁓ and that just says what it is, I guess it's, it's proved out in their study. ⁓ it's not to say, and I'm not going to say that you cannot shoot a fixed blade broadhead accurately. it's just generally not as accurate across the board and they're testing out of a shooting machine. That's all I'm saying. ⁓ as he dive into group size, I thought it was interesting. The broadheads that generally grouped the best, the one that I thought was really interesting was this grim reaper fatal steel. ⁓ it actually shot tighter groups than the gold tip filled tip that they used kind of as a default. ⁓ that was impressive to me, tighter group than a field tip, ⁓ coming out of that grim reaper fail still. ⁓ Now if I was only considered in accuracy, I might choose that one just right out the gate. No questions asked. ⁓ When I look at that head though, ⁓ I don't personally like the fact that those blades are fold back design. I think you do have the potential to rob some energy because it's requiring some force to fold those blades back. On contact, I much prefer a ⁓ rear deploying mechanical broadhead like a sever or a beast ⁓ speed. There's a few of them out there. ⁓ But that's a design and that broadhead that I don't necessarily love. But if you were purely looking at group sizes, it's hard to beat the ⁓ the results. Very accurate broadhead. Some of the other ones that were notable that did really well. So the sever 2.0 hybrid did really well the speed titanium The evolution outdoors white tail fury and then the beast titanium 2.0 That one did really well all of those ⁓ You know shot really nice tight groups ⁓ One thing I thought was really cool Like I said already was the ability to look at the photos and I would encourage you if you're geek and you want to dive into this I would spend a lot of time just looking at the individual photos just to compare group sizes. It was really cool and it's impressive to see how accurate some of these broadheads can be out to 70 yards when you know obviously perfect form but ⁓ pretty pretty cool information. When you dive into the fixed category so fixed broadheads I thought that looked like they did well I would say the tooth of the arrow the four blade was interesting. ⁓ the evolution outdoors, Jekyll and Hyde, I think is a hybrid, ⁓ kind of a hybrid. fixed blade and then two blades that are rear, not rear deploying, but full back design, ⁓ mechanical. ⁓ and then the iron will wide and then the, iron will S 100, which they included in the test. And again, there's other broadheads out there that they did not test. This is just what they tested and I'm just pulling. ⁓ It is interesting when you start to compare like individual, you know, broadheads to broadheads. I've stopped. I've talked in general generality so far, but, you know, it begs the question. how much tighter were the groups? ⁓ and it's relative if you base it between two individual broadheads. But for example, I wanted to pull these out. ⁓ so the sever 2.0 hybrid, which is a broadhead, ⁓ trying to think if I've used, I generally use the 1.5s, which are probably going to be even a little bit better because it's a shorter ferrule and a little less exposed. ⁓ group size for that was 4.969 inches and the iron wheel wide was 5.982. So if you look at that, it's only an inch difference out to 70 yards, I believe. It doesn't sound like much. ⁓ And it isn't, but if you look at the photo, look at the photos. Um, you know, in my opinion, looking at those photos, I was like, this makes sense to me. just shot. It just looks tighter. It's a tighter group. Um, but again, if you're a guy that likes a fixed blade, uh, you know, they're still capable of shooting decent groups. Um, but I would say run through the photos and just do some comparisons and see what, what you, what you like and what you think is, is the best. So that's kind of accuracy. I wanted to run through that. ⁓ You know, the debate between fixed and mechanical is always a hot one. ⁓ I'm a mechanical guy and that's based on my specs, my draw length, my draw weight. I don't worry about penetration. ⁓ and I've had good results when I've made a good shot with a mechanical broadhead and I lean towards having a priority behind accuracy and forgiveness. you know, I would rather have my arrow be more likely to hit behind the pan or close to it as close to it as I can have it, to be honest. ⁓ then, then, ⁓ then an arrow that's going to penetrate, I'd rather get less penetration in the right spot than more penetration in the wrong spot. So. That's where I land. ⁓ I don't get too wound up about people that want to shoot fixed blades and they think that you should only shoot elk with fixed blades. think, you know, good on you, ⁓ go for it. think if, if that's where your priority lies, then, run with it. And ultimately I think you ought to shoot the broadhead that you feel the most confident in that you put the most time in and that you feel the most confident in. So If you like the idea of potentially better penetration that's coming from a fixed blade and maybe you're willing to exercise some self control and keep your shots at a closer distance so that you're not, ⁓ you know, you're not, you're not seeing some of the effects of shooting at long range with the fixed blade when you're under duress. ⁓ then yeah, I think go, go for it. Use it, use a fixed blade. And there's some great fixed blade heads on the market. And I would encourage you, you can dive into these studies both last year and this one to find some information on finding a quality fixed blade. I would say if I was making a recommendation on a fixed blade, ⁓ I would put iron will right there near the top. They've got some various options. The other one I really like is the QAD Exodus. I think that's a good head. ⁓ another one I shot for a lot of years and had great success with was the slick trick broadhead. the standard broadhead and also the viper trick, ⁓ which I'll get into here. There's some downfalls to those, when we talk about noise. So maybe that's a good jump off point to talk about, ⁓ noise in the broadheads. So it was interesting to me as you look through the, ⁓ noise portion of their graphs. anytime you got a broad head, that's got a lot of surface area and specifically if it's vented. So if you're shooting a fixed blade head like that slick trick, ⁓ standard head, head, blade that's got the vents in it, or, ⁓ I'm to think of some of the other ones out there that have got vented, maybe a muzzy, you know, an iron will, they make a broad head that's got vented. It does allow that arrow to be more accurate, that broadhead to be more accurate because you're moving. It's just less surface area. So it's kind of moving through, but it definitely makes those a whole lot louder. And that showed out when they started testing for noise. if you look at the broadheads that were relatively quiet in a fixed blade category, the QAD Exodus was quite quiet, which was interesting. It's actually more quiet than some of the, the, ⁓ mechanicals. So I thought that was worth noting. When you look at some of the others, generally all of the mechanicals that they tested. So the Sever 1.5, the Sever 2.0, the Hybrid, the Beast Titanium, the Evolution Outdoors, ⁓ Jekyll Hide, the Grim Reaper Fatal Steel, those were all relatively close, I would say somewhere in that. ⁓ What 57, they put it at decibels somewhere in that neighborhood. 57, 58 decibels. started to make a jump when you move into, um, some of the fixed blade heads. like a muzzy trocar three blade, you're going to move that up to 63 decibels. Uh, the system I'm looking at here, the very loudest it looked like that they tested was the iron will vented. ⁓ that one's 70 decibels. you know, the iron wheel wide 68 decibels. So those are quite a bit louder, than most of your mechanical heads. ⁓ which is worth, in my opinion, it's worth thinking about, the old adage, you know, jump the string. I don't necessarily. buy into that. I don't think that's ever really been the case. If you think about the sound of your bow going off, especially with these newer bows, they're so dead in the hand and so quiet that the actual noise of the bow is relatively muted. It's kind of a thump. ⁓ It's a much more natural noise, it would seem to me, than the sound of an arrow with the broadhead and the veins kind of whistling. If you ever had a chance to stand down rage and somebody shot pass, you know what I'm talking about? It's that hissing sound. And, I think that is what the animal is reacting to. think they're reacting to that sound of the arrow that's coming towards them. And I know that, ⁓ I heard James say that and I've, I've thought that too. ⁓ so it was good to hear him say that, but I think that's the case. So it's for, to me. I think it's worthwhile in thinking about the noise that your broadhead and your vein combination makes. I think it should be part of your, broadhead selection. ⁓ I mean, ultimately for me, my driving force is accuracy. want an accurate forgiving broadhead. ⁓ after that noise is probably, you know, right up there. it. I want an opportunity to hit the animal and hit the animal well. And if it ducks the string, ducks the string, I just said it. If it ducks the arrow because of the sound of the arrow, ⁓ you know, I'm potentially going to hit that animal and wound it and not find it, ⁓ or miss the animal completely. So for me, noise is a big one. And I thought it was really cool that they included that. And I would encourage you to jump in the study and take a look at it and see, ⁓ find a broadhead that's quiet. ⁓ know, whether that's a fixed blade or, or mechanical, ⁓ would say you can kind of pick and choose, but definitely I think noise is worth considering when, when you're looking at picking a broadhead. And it was cool that they included that. ⁓ they have a neat little graph right here, right at the top of that. So the title of this one is the broadhead performance overview. And the first graph is the mean radius, which is a metric of how accurate the group was. ⁓ versus ⁓ the drag constant, which you can look at that, but then further down, you can also look at ⁓ a group and noise graph to see which broadheads group the best, the greatest, and then also which ones were the quietest. And you can find that sweet spot for you. So that was cool. Hopefully you found something there that was interesting to you. For me, it was definitely interesting. ⁓ You know, kind of confirmed my choice in several broadheads. Uh, think it's a great head, well-designed quality material, titanium. Um, I do want to play with some other ones. did carry around a, that's the other thing is broadhead design. Right? So last year I carried around a, uh, beast broadhead in my quiver and I liked the beast. And if you look at the beast broadhead, In their test, it flies well. It shoots a nice group. ⁓ it's got one of the lower drag, ⁓ constants of the broadheads that they tested. ⁓ lots to like about that broadhead, but I did periodically, I would look down into my quiver and my beast broadhead would have popped open the, the blades would have popped open because they're, those are spring loaded within the ferrule. ⁓ and it's not a huge deal because I can pull that arrow out and I can pinch the two blades in with my hands and they will click in place. They'll stay in place. ⁓ But it would really agitate me if I was in the heat of the moment and I went to pull that arrow out to shoot at an animal and that my blades had opened up. ⁓ In saying that, the sever broadheads, I've definitely had people reach out to me and say, hey, have you ever had your broadheads open up in your quiver? ⁓ And I have. I will say it has been much less so than I experienced with the beast broadhead. ⁓ I've also, what I've done is I've included, I've put two of the silicone rubber bands around the ferrule that hold the blades in to kind of help combat that. And I have them, I have that happen way less for me than I did with the speed broadhead. It was not uncommon for the broadhead that I had, ⁓ packing around on my quiver of the beast to have that thing pop open. And I don't know if it was just for me hiking or going through brush or what it was, but. To me, that's a broad head design and an issue that like, think you ought to think about when you're making a selection. Um, and for me, this kind of confirmed that, uh, you know, until I see something different, better in some regard, uh, it would be really tough for me to, move away from the sever broadheads because of the material, how well they did in the study in terms of sound accuracy. It would just be tough for me to go away from those. They're a, they're a quality broadhead in my opinion. ⁓ and, and I will, I will hunt elk with them. ⁓ okay. Moving on to veins. So veins, this one, this one seems like it's, it's tough to talk about because there are, there's, there's trade-offs, right? So there's things like the height of the vein. ⁓ I have not historically wanted a high profile vein. If you think about hunting the height of the vein, you know, it's, might be marginal. might be a very slim margin, but the potential that you might glance that vein off of an overhanging branch or a bush, it increases the taller that vein is. Also the taller the vein, typically the louder the vein is. Also newer bows, mine included this Matthews Arc 34 that I've got, for example. The cable guard is closer, it seems, to reduce that torque in the riser from the center shot of the arrow. So if you've got a real high profile vein, you know, there's the potential that you might bump up or brush that cable. ⁓ I could move that away from the riser if I wanted to and probably tune it out. But if I didn't have to, that would be great. So I like a low profile vein. There's a lot of reasons in my opinion to like a low profile vein. ⁓ so that's one consideration that, ⁓ you know, they, they did the graphs, they basically laid them out, ⁓ and you could look at them, but there's a lot of information to tease through. you know, sound is also, I've already noted that, but sound is important. It's a piece of this puzzle and you you got to think about that then group size. ⁓ and I thought it was neat. So when they tested these, they essentially tested, ⁓ You know, three different things. So aerodynamic drag. So that's the drag constant. lower drag means less drop, ⁓ less wind drift potential and more air, air energy carried down range. the less drag on that arrow, the, more energy it's going to retain down range. ⁓ so drag is, is worth thinking about in your veins, ⁓ restorative lift. which is how well the vein steers the fixed blade broadhead back to where a filled point would have hit. So that's important. And then noise. So they tested noise. ⁓ And if you look at the first graph, you don't want to read through all the details, there's a link there at the top of the precision cut archery's website where it says ⁓ too long, didn't read, just want the hard and fast, the cliff notes if you will. And it basically is a graph where on the one axis, they have the drag constant, and then they have the broad head drift from filled point, which is your, your restorative lift, I think is what he's calling it. But, they have those two plotted out and then they have each individual dot, highlighted in a color. So the more yellow that dot is, the quieter that vein combination is. And the more purple it is, the louder that vein is in flight. And if you look at the graph, the bottom left portion of it here would be, you know, veins that in essence performed better, ⁓ because they have a lower drag constant and they have less drift from field point to broad head. And then you'd be looking for those yellow, those yellow dots. So as I hover over these and I look at them, the ones that kind of jump out at you, ⁓ the flex Fletch FFP 300. that's a You know, three inch vein, it's, it's a fairly long vein, not too whole, not too high profile. ⁓ but in the study it did really well. ⁓ so 6.8 inches is the broad head drift from field point, ⁓ the drag constant 0.819. And then as far as decibels, it's 51.9, pretty quiet. One of the quieter vein combinations that they, they tested. now if you look at a couple others, so one that I thought I was really. Really excited actually to see was the ultra view vein in a three Fletch. ⁓ that one did really well, really quiet, ⁓ low drag constant and you know, did decently well in the drift from the broad head to the fill point. ⁓ and then also what was really impressive is, is they broke these out by group sizes by average group size. And if you scroll down through this study here, you can look at the pictures. That is one of the veins. that I was really impressed with just the imagery. When you get to look at the group size between the filled point and the broad head, man, it shot tight groups, which to me is interesting. And it's quite quiet ⁓ and it's got relatively low drag. So as I look at this graph here, that one for me is one that I would call, you know, it's not a clear winner, obviously, because there's really no clear winners, but that one's that's right up near the tip top that I think is really interesting. and there's a few others, you know, if you look at the DCA super saber, I think that's an interesting one. ⁓ you know, the drift from broadhead to field point, it did awesome. Did really well. ⁓ it's a little bit tall for my liking and that's probably for me too tall, like not really my jam, but it is interesting and it's a, it's a good look in vain. ⁓ some of the other ones that were interesting to look at, know, the AE hybrid HP and a three-fletch that's a really tall arrow. It's got kind of that, ⁓ classic blazer profile, if you will. ⁓ if you're looking for a broadhead that does really well and you know, drift from broadhead to field point, that one did awesome. Same with the AAE air razor Talon 3.0. Awesome. Also both of those two loud. Uh, they're, just loud cause they're high profile, you know, bigger veins, which, is going to obviously catch air and it's going to make some noise. So again, this is like, it's hard to tease through because there's so many different considerations of like, what's the most important thing to you. You know, both of those, the Talon, it's probably a really excellent option. If you're a fixed blade broadhead that you need to steer well. Um, but no, you're going to sacrifice some in sound, the sound that it makes, it's going to be a little bit noisy. Uh, There are a couple others that I wanted to talk about that I thought, I thought were interesting. you know, the DCA mini saber I thought was interesting. ⁓ it did really, really well on most metrics other than sound. It's a little bit louder than like the UV or the flex Fletch FFP 300, ⁓ a little bit louder, but man, it did really good in a And a really small package. that one's definitely worth checking out. ⁓ another one that I've used over the years, which I wanted to talk about, and I watched James just talk about it, kind of his personal, you know, selections and what he learned from this study. And he didn't bring it up. ⁓ I'd be interested in asking him about it sometime as somebody that was there and did the study. It was in person, but the bony heat vein in a four-fletch. So if you look at that combination, it is one of, I want to say it's probably the quietest for, well, it's not the quietest. It, ⁓ but it's not loud. Like it's a pretty quiet combination for a four-fletch. one of the interesting things that I, when I originally started using that vein in a four-fletch combo, the reason I went to is because it was quiet. And I thought it was really accurate. It seemed to shoot well. And I think that is reflected in their results. That's another one of those broad or vein combinations. When you look at the photos is impressive to me because the groups are super tight. ⁓ the drift from broadhead to field tip was pretty good. ⁓ for a four-fletch, ⁓ decibels was only 52.7 and that was in the deer test. ⁓ the only issue really is I look at that vein combination is the drag constant, which is one of the higher ones at 0.857. ⁓ and if, and I didn't even, I failed to mention this, but you can go in and you can look at all the raw data that they've collected from all these and it's pretty cool. for every vein combination, you can see the feet per second out of the bow and you can see the foot per second. think it's at 60 yards and maybe 30 yards, but there's They give you a variety of, ⁓ feet per second, numbers at each distance for each vein combo. So when I looked at that, you can see that that vein combination is slower coming out of the bow and it's about three per, I wanted to say about three feet per second slower at 60 yards than something like the, ⁓ UV veins and a three-fletch combo. And that's it's in, mean, that's interesting, right? That's three feet per second at 60 yards difference that that, that arrow is covering. I did find it to be very accurate. ⁓ the question I've been asking myself, cause I was half considering going back to that same combo after I looked at the, group size and how well that thing grouped, ⁓ was how much, how much of an issue is drag for me? Like how much weight do I put into drag? I'm like having that. that conversation with myself, like, is it that big of a deal for me to, um, you know, if I'm, if I'm shooting 290 feet per second, or if I'm shooting 300 feet per second is a broadhead that has a vein combination that has a little bit more added drag. it that big of a deal? Uh, if I'm going to gain some in you know, restorative lift, meaning that it's going to, you know, group a little bit closer of my field tips to my broadheads. that's an instinct, ⁓ discussion kind of internal dialogue I've been having with myself and been looking at. ⁓ but yeah, I did want to highlight that and, and I would be interested to talk to James about it. might have to, and if I do all, ⁓ I'll revisit it, but I would say of the combos that I looked at. that I think are the most interesting that I think I would recommend based on the study. And I think those guys would as well. I would say the DCA, both the mini and the super saber. I think the flex fletch FFP 300 for sure. I think the UV vein and a three fletch for sure. I think those are all really, really good options for folks, especially guys that are shooting mechanical broadheads. I think if you want to jump up to a fixed blade and you want to try to increase that guidance at that point, you got to be willing, you're probably going to end up, ⁓ you're going to sacrifice some in noise. Cause you're going to just need more vein to guide those things and correct them. So, you know, an AAE hybrid HP, maybe the Talon, or then you start looking at maybe some of those four fletch like a, boning heat vein and a four or, what are some of the other ones? A max stealth. for example, ⁓ that might be worth considering, but just one more reason in my opinion, to shoot a mechanical. ⁓ Okay. So that kind of covers veins. There is so much data here that it would be hard for me to really cover in depth and do it well without getting too convoluted. ⁓ There's a ton of data. And I'm looking at it here as I'm scrolling through. ⁓ but generally speaking, I would say, ⁓ one of those vein combinations, think a good quality mechanical, ⁓ definitely is, is a winning combo in my opinion, for most animals. ⁓ there is one other part of this and I debated on how much I wanted to get into it. I've read it a number of times. I've looked at all the information a number of times. I've listened to James talk about it, but that's front of center. ⁓ and I've debated on, how to talk about it exactly, but the take home that I found, ⁓ if I could wrap it up in a bow is that what they showed was generally the, the front of center. if you can increase the front of center, it did result in shrinking group sizes. ⁓ Now in saying that, that comes with a caveat because as you increase your front end weight, the broadhead, the insert combination, um, you're also decreasing the spine. you're weakening the spine a little bit of your arrow. Um, the other thing is, is you're going to increase drop because you've got so much weight there in the front end of your arrow. Uh, there might be. You know, creative ways where you can add more weight in front of center and still get a flat shooting arrow. So where mine, my mind goes when I think about that is, you know, searching out some of these arrows, like an Easton five ⁓ which is a lightweight arrow that still offers, you know, a two 50 spine that's relatively lightweight or, you know, a victory HLR. There are these arrows that have come out in recent years where the stiffness is there, but they have found a way to reduce the overall weight in grains per inch. And if that's the case, you could build out an arrow that weighs roughly the same while adding more of that weight to the front end of the arrow, which what they have showed is that your, your group tightness did shrink some. ⁓ And there's way more to this than I could cover. ⁓ just don't know that I've got the brain capacity to do it well, but that was kind of the gist of it. I still, I still feel like when I'm building an arrow, one, want to pick a quality broadhead. I already talked about that. And then I want to pick, ⁓ overall weight. That's kind of where my head goes next. So I want to consider that. And then that will. I'll take into consideration my component weight, so the front end weight, and then also the grains per inch. And now I'm kind of thinking maybe I do want to build up a little bit of the front of center. So if I can save some weight in the grains per inch of the arrow, I might do that. Veins, obviously I want to pick a vein that ⁓ groups well, that shoots well, guides the broadhead well, doesn't make a lot of noise, that's quiet. ⁓ and then also without adding too much weight to the back end of the arrow. And then also, like I've already said, I don't want to a high price, ⁓ a high profile vein. And that's kind of, those are kind of my priorities. That's where I land in an arrow build. I would encourage all of you. If this kind of stuff matters to you, ⁓ jump into that study and think about your own priorities and what you're trying to build for an arrow, what you like. And see what you can glean from the study and build out an arrow. ⁓ if you're not somebody that wants to tinker, ⁓ I would say walk into your pro shop. I would say pick one of these vein combos, pick a broad head. I would say put 150 grains upfront. So maybe a 50 grain insert, a hundred grade point. Again, if you want to spend a little extra money and maybe bump up the front of center on that, maybe a 75 grain insert, 100 grain point, or if you want to put some back weights in it. know CMI is a machining company out of Montana. They're making some great inserts with some back weights. Maybe bump that up to 160 or 170 grains on the front end of your arrow. ⁓ Shoot one of these vein combinations. So I think the UV vein and a three-fletch combo is a good option. I think that FFP 300 is a good option. Super Sabres, Mini Sabres are good option. Heat vein and a four-fletch, I like personally. I think there's a lot to like about it other than the drag constant. But if you're guy that's shooting some added weight and added draw length, it's probably less of an issue for you. ⁓ If you're trying to shoot a fixed blade broadhead, You know, put one of these higher profile veins on it's going to get you a lot of steering, and, build that arrow out and just shoot it. you know, the one thing I did want to wrap up with this, ⁓ there's so many rabbit holes that you can dive down. ⁓ I know recently I was talking to some guys and I think I said, you know, I, do kind of miss like that ignorance is bliss stage that I had in archery where I didn't know a lot of this and I didn't. I didn't dive down these rabbit holes and, ⁓ you know, you go to a pro shop and they would set it up and you would tell them you were a 30 inch drawer or whatever it might be. And, you know, they handed that bow and you went out and you shot it and just whatever that bow combo was, it was, ⁓ you know, I probably shot it through paper and I thought that that was tuned and ready to rip. ⁓ and I just shot it and I had fun with it. I do kind of miss that, you know, point being is, ⁓ I think you can. think you can overanalyze yourself to death on some of this. ⁓ I think what still matters the most, regardless of vain combos and all the different broadhead configurations, I still think what matters most is that the guy behind the bow. So I would say spend your time shooting your bow. And that's, that's kind of, ⁓ it's that's like, advice, you know, it's like do as I say, not as they do. I know that as I say it, but I still think that that that's the most important thing. ⁓ yeah, go shoot your bow, build a good arrow, put what time you've got into it that you want to, ⁓ try to build, build something that you feel confident in, but mostly just go shoot your bow. ⁓ so with that, that's podcast for the week. Hope you guys found this informational. ⁓ I certainly did. I know that I've spent more time than I would care to admit inside their arrow study, the ballistic study. ⁓ I know I'm not done for a fact. know that I just can't get enough of it. I just keep diving into it and then looking at all the raw data and all the information and you know, the pictures. but, ⁓ yeah, I know I'm not done with it, but I like that kind of stuff. Anyway, ⁓ give it a look, ⁓ and also go, go support those guys and, ⁓ I'll wrap up with that. and I will be back next week.