Kailey: Beauty was never designed with disabled people in mind, but we're here anyways. Ashton: I'm Ashton, disabled beauty creator. Kailey: And I'm Kaylee, an occupational therapist. Ashton: And this is Accessibly Ever After, where we talk all things accessible beauty, inclusive design, and what it really means to make beauty work for real people. Kailey: Welcome back. Today we are going deep into the well. If you haven't heard, this is our new episode format where we take one brand at a time and get really into it. The products, the packaging, what actually works and what still needs work from an accessibility standpoint. And honestly, when we were thinking about which brand we wanted to go deep into next, Luna Daily felt like such an obvious choice because there is so much to unpack here from an accessibility perspective. Ashton: Luna Daily is a UK based microbiome balancing body care and intimate wellness brand founded in 2019 by Katie Cottham. The brand really focuses on pH balance products, whole body safe cleansing. Kailey: their core philosophy truly is like that your vulva is skin. And so it deserves the same thoughtful care as the rest of your body. Ashton: I'm really thinking from the perspective of the disability community and the chronic illness community And how we often have so much shame just generally surrounding hygiene. And you know, there's this concept of the hygiene Olympics, right? you to shower every day and you have to like exfoliate and have to wash your hair with three different shampoos and all these things. there's a lot like stigma if you don't, if you can't take a shower every day, if you can't, you know, wash your face every day, if you wash your hair, and so ⁓ I love personally, and I that's why it resonates so much with me that they that is one of their goals, right? To focus on products that can support you out of the shower, that meet where you are, that you can take with you to the gym, you can use on a bad day, you can keep by your bedside if you just can't take a shower. And I love the brand, you know, stands ten toes down on. Kailey: there's definitely a lot of romanticization of like the everything and the ⁓ twelve step routine ⁓ the ⁓ it's just I I do almost wonder if it is almost like a ⁓ like alt right pipeline of sort. I feel like I make that argument and there's I think there's a connection to the idea that like Ashton: Yes. There's something there. Kailey: As a woman and again, I wanna say very clearly, if you are someone who loves your luxurious routine, heck yes. I am someone who sometimes loves to do my like skincare and put on the dim lights and I used to put eucalyptus. Ashton: Same. Yeah, sometimes it's a ritual and sometimes it's just getting through life. Kailey: But I think there's something there with the idea that like as a woman you're inherently dirty and have to have all of like you have to be clean, you can't sweat, you can't smell. If you don't smell like a hundred percent of the time, you're like nasty, you know? And so I I do think there is probably an interconnection here of like Ashton: Yeah. You're dirty. You're gross. Yeah. Kailey: Alt-right pipeline, traditional values that can create very easily this just inherent otherness, which again is also again rooted in ableism and of these things. And I think it's nice to have a brand that is still ⁓ romanticizing but in a way that is shame-free. So it is still like a Ashton: Sure. Kailey: Experience in the body wash itself. Like I have the body wash right now in my shower. Like it smells good, it feels good on the body, in an easier way, right? So it's like ⁓ reframing from multi-step, ⁓ like very energy-intensive activity to really luxury and just like what what you Ashton: Yeah. Kailey: what you are, what you want to do, and then having these products that support just like feeling good with fewer steps. Ashton: really want to talk about two, there's this overlap here, and this has been my experience ⁓ as a person plus size. I want to talk about this because not only have I been, you know, up to with that just as a chronically ill person who I I feel like people are like, ⁓ they can't take care of themselves. Like, again, we're talking about like the shame it. And I think that you know people have really made plus size folks, fat folks, feel lot of shame and a lot of, you know, kind of like nervousness ⁓ ⁓ lack confidence around how they smell. I feel like people just assume that plus size people automatically smell terrible. I've been on the internet long enough to have heard it ⁓ but I think that it's actually so ironic to me because I feel like plus size people are some of the most in tune with the way that their body smells because of that. It's almost been ingrained in us. coming from shame perspective, I feel like we have done way too much on the shame front. I feel like you should do what works for you you should mind your business. know. Kailey: I think it it's easy to sell with shame. ⁓ So ⁓ It's is. It's easy to sell with the idea that you are missing out on something or the more negative aspects, like, don't you want to fix this about yourself? And that is seen, I mean, throughout industries, right? And ⁓ so shifting conversation to Ashton: Sure, fear, fear and shame. We know that. It's a marketing tactic. Kailey: shame free, ⁓ but still ⁓ selling. And think brand kind of proves that that marketing angle can work. ⁓ Ashton: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like people must feel like it's freeing. I know it has been to me. and also like seeing a brand outwardly marketing that way has been ⁓ so reassuring and like has felt good. have worked with them on the partnership side and the fact that they specifically and I'm not even the only disabled creator that they have worked with. So I think like seeing that too outwardly you know, one of the brands. priorities has been very, very refreshing. Kailey: I also think we can see that the growth of this brand really aligns with the idea that if you are more inclusive, you grow faster, right? Like they have been, like you said, working with disabled creators and they're growing since 2019 when they were founded. They have since expanded into Sephora US, Boots, ASOS, Ulta. they're really infiltrating and everywhere in the market right now. And Ashton: They're popping off right now. Kailey: Yeah. And that's with with the disability community to continue their outreach and their marketing and all this stuff. it shows that like it really does grow a brand. Ashton: We know, we know from the data that being inclusive as a brand in this space does indeed make you grow faster. We have spoken about the CME index before and I believe they said it was like a one point I could be speaking out out of ass right now, but we we have have seen the CME index stated that you know brands that are being inclusive in this space are growing one point eight times faster. than brands who are not. So with it. Kailey: Yeah. think our listeners are with it. If you're listening to this podcast, I would assume you're with it. And if you're not, welcome. Ashton: There with it. I wanna if you're not, sit down. down right now ⁓ listen. so really want to get into, you know, we've talked about the background of the brand, we've talked about the founder, we talked about the origin story, but I really want to get into the products themselves. Kailey: Yeah, that's Ashton: have their everywhere wash, which we kind of touched on. And it's this microbiome balancing pH-friendly cleanser designed to be used on the body. It comes in several scents. We love it. It also comes in an unscded version, which we also love, especially for our folks who just cannot do scents. have the everywhere spray-to-wipe, which is kind of, you know, a replacement for those traditional disposable wipes, designed for a full-body refresh on the go. They also speaking of on the go, they have their everywhere spray-to-wipe mini, which I personally Love. I keep one in all of my bags now. It's supposed to be like this pocket size power shower, I think is what they refer to it as. And I love that. have the Oliver Deodorant, which is designed not just for your underarms, but it's for your entire body, and then they have some. Products that are they have the everywhere lotion, so that's an all-over moisturizer. They have their ingrown, the oil for like ingrowns and bumps, and then they have an entire collection that is focused on motherhood from their skin treatment duo for stretch marks and scars, their post-birth soothing spray, the mini version of that. have a perennial prep massage oil, a nip and lip balm, the motherhood everywhere wash, and the mini motherhood wash. So they really do have this slew of products designed for everyone and for everywhere. I to talk about, some of our and talk about, what we what we think about them from an standpoint, from the packaging to the formulas, to the marketing, all of those. I would love to hear kind of your thoughts. Kailey: I think where this brand shines is thinking about the products in context, right? So in these having these products that simplify routines that you can use across your entire body is accessibility in itself. I think where this brand can grow in ⁓ of that packaging, right? So ⁓ really like the everywhere wash pump, it's great. It's wide, it's easy to push down. lot of their packaging is a more matte texture, which again is fabulous. an area growth for them is spraydal wipes. I know it is like a rounded packaging, but Ashton: Yes. Yep. Kailey: The full size can be a little tricky to get open, and the actual dispenser is just like your typical spray. Ashton: Right. And then the mini itself, you know, the the spray is actual like button is flush with the product. So would agree that, you know, the ethos of the brand because of the way it's designed and because it's designed to use all over your body, you're reducing some of the friction in your routine because you're not, you know, opening and a and using a ton of products that's this the you know something you can use all over. so you open it once, you close it once. And so that is where I find this brand to really shine and to really that's like where I see it from an accessibility standpoint. But I I would agree with you. struggle with the everywhere sprayed a white because it can be a little difficult to kind of like get a nice grasp on that rounded, like egg-shaped dome on top. And know, I find the mini to be a little easier for myself personally, but I love the everywhere wash and I do actually think that that's probably their most accessible product. in my opinion. It's very similar to if you guys are familiar with the Nuturium body wash packaging, I would say it's it's ⁓ somewhat similar to It's got that very large pump on it. It's, know, the the stem of the pump is pretty long. And I I think it's nice because it's a product that you can sit in in your shower somewhere. You can sit it on a shelf and pump it pretty easily. But yeah, I I would agree. I I think that out of products, my favorite probably is the Mini Spray to wipe. because I reach for it so often, I would say the everywhere I watch is probably a close second. I do really love it. especially because it has been hot and I have been sweating. Kailey: I bring the Everywhere Spray-to-Wipe Mini with me to the gym all the time. My friend and I have started doing Sunday morning gyms, and then there's farmer's market within walking distance to our gym. So we will like do the gym, we sit in the sauna, and then we go to the farmer's market. And so I've started using the everywhere spray-to-wipe mini just to give myself a little bit of a refresh before going to the farmer's market, especially because I get ⁓ really sweaty the gym and in the sauna. ⁓ Ashton: That's so frill. Yeah, I was gonna say, end in the sauna, girl. Like were putting that to the test. Yeah. I feel I feel like it's so nice for that because there are realistically, and I remember times in my life. I'm I'm thinking back to you know, had hospital stays where I I'm thinking back to one of them in particular where was in the hospital for like a month and a half. I had sepsis and I ⁓ could I struggle hated. I hate Kailey: Yeah, ⁓ no. Ashton: Hate it and I still I still hate this. I hated asking the nurses for help, like bathing when I was there and you know couldn't do it independently. That ⁓ brought a lot of for me. there are many days too where thinking back where I just like did not have the energy. I could not shower. I'm thinking about times where I was like much like bed or couch bound. ⁓ especially before I had, you know, a of medications on board and my mobility aids and all these things, like there times where it was incredibly hard for me to shower. We previously had a rental where we had stairs and the only shower option was up the stairs. And there was that was the point in my health where I could not do that. We ended up actually having to move because of that. It was just not possible for me anymore. so I really love and one the reasons I this brand has been, you know, important to me is because remember what like and I remember how much it sucked, especially as someone who's younger, as somebody, you know, who's just trying to in, who's just trying to make friends. Kailey: Yeah. Yeah. Ashton: I didn't want to smell, I didn't want to be uncomfortable. I just wanted to feel like myself and to feel clean and to confident and to feel all these things. So I love that this brand has just completely lended itself to that. Kailey: Yeah. And back to the hospital thing. is such a good point because I used to work in or I did one of my field works in inpatient. And so a lot of occupational therapy inpatient is supporting those activities of daily living. So brushing your teeth, bathing, toileting, all these different things. And so sometimes we be working like on like a bed bath or we would be like going in the shower and trying to like support that independence and support that transition back to whatever independence looks like for that person I remember the products that were available ⁓ so clinical they suck like it was just so even I remember the smell right like the sterile smell of the ⁓ yes ⁓ ⁓ Ashton: Yes. Yeah. They're so clinical. Literally. Yep. I can still smell some of those like all body like shower wipes. The thick, like I don't know. I did not love those. Was not a fan. And like I'm thinking about like the shower caps, like all these things. They're very clinical. Kailey: Yeah. Yep. Yep. I do. I have my database I did put some like shower caps with like the shampoo shower caps because Ashton: really a replacement, sadly. not really a replacement for those yet, sadly. ⁓ Kailey: No, right now, this is actually another. If you're listening and you're in product development, make a good shampoo cap that is like luxurious. Because right now, yeah, they they they work, were not luxurious. they make you feel good. And when you're when you're in a hospital or you're in these settings where you're not in your home and you're potentially in pain or like you've just experienced a Ashton: A gap in the market. Yeah, I was gonna say that like feels nice, yeah. No. Kailey: disabling event or like you are some Ashton: Right. Something traumatizing. I literally went into septic shock. Hello? Kailey: Exactly. Like something something intense has happened for you to end up a for multiple days, right? To the point where you need to bathe and and so idea that like you're stuck in this and then you have all this sterile stuff, which I understand hospitals Ashton: Right. Yeah. Imagine imagine if it was like fun colored and like smelled nice. Like I'm thinking like fun Luna Daily Smell. Like imagine something like that, like a shower cap like that. Like, hello, this is a market gap. Somebody needs to do this. ⁓ make it fun. ⁓ Right. This a gap. This is a gap. yeah, like something that feels like a ritual, which like Katie has talked about kind of, you know, they released their recent Kailey: Yeah. All right, Luna Daily, I know you're listening. need to expand into shampoo. ⁓ Ashton: spray to wipe and it is Pomelo and Pachouli. And she really talked about it from the perspective of like wanting to bottle up summer and like their whole marketing concept is you can skip the shower, not the moment. I want hygiene to feel good. I don't want it ⁓ be, you know, a of a ton of friction. I don't want it to be something that I feel shame I don't want it to feel clinical. And so the the idea of being there, hygiene products being there as a ritual, ⁓ I would love to see shift that. I I understand, you know, why these products exist in hospital settings and all these things, but It would really be nice, especially when you're what you're saying, Kaylee. Like a lot of times these people have experienced, you know, something traumatic or something really unfortunate that them to be in the hospital for several days. It would be nice to not have to feel that kind of shame. It's already often shameful to, you know, require help from someone. A lot of people feel shame around that. And, you know, I can resonate with that. I hate Like there is nothing more it's like a humiliation ritual when you're in the hospital often. Like Kailey: Yeah. And I think it can also, can be challenging ⁓ the worker side to also like remember that consistently because it you do get so just like it's part of your daily routine. Like you see so many naked bodies and so many like it you you literally don't even notice, right? Like my friend works in acute care and she sees naked people Ashton: Yeah. Right. It's a r it's another Tuesday. Kailey: Day in, day out, and she just like doesn't even it because have you stay professional, but it becomes part of your everyday routine. But I think that also can then lend forgetting, right? We always talk about like bedside manner and all these things. And if you're if it's so normalized to you, you can forget fact that it can be really jarring and uncomfortable for the person who just experienced this event And ⁓ the more we can create that more. ⁓ human, the more ⁓ burnt out healthcare workers can remember that we are working with humans, right? Like the more you humanize these systems, the more you are able to stay in that zone instead of just like clocking in, clocking out. that make sense? Ashton: so I that makes sense to me. I feel like ⁓ that, you this being part the brand's ethos, like wanting body care to be able to feel like a ritual, and I feel like they really do embody that, you know, they have multiple scents, their are in these, you know, bright, fun colors. It's fun to look at, it's to use. And I I really wish we could reframe hygiene. from that perspective. And, you know, we talk about accessible beauty on here, but it really it's not just makeup. It's not just hair care. At the end of the day, we all have to take care of our bodies. Luna Daly said, head, vulva, knees and toes, everything, know, we we have to figure out ways to accommodate ourselves and engage in those routines one way or another. So it's nice when it's able to feel good. Kailey: I know we've of touched on the fact that some this packaging can be kind of hard to manage or open. In a perfect world, what would you like to see change with the packaging? Ashton: I would definitely love to see I I know we talked about the everywhere sprayed away. I would love to see that with some like corners on it. the top being like that shape, it is a little difficult to grasp. So having more grip points on it would be phenomenal. I like that the matte the matte packaging is pretty much across the board and it's like a soft, like it feels nice in the hand. Kailey: Yeah. Ashton: I also think there's some room for improvement in the deodorant because it's just a traditional like screw off cap. I don't know. What what are your thoughts on how improve the packaging? Kailey: like you said, just adding more texture points. So adding stickers, adding different like grip points through those texture stickers is my first kind of line of defense there because you are just twisting it open. when it's open, do you to twist it up or is it a rollerball? Ashton: you have to twist it up, Kailey: so again, that's gonna be where it's challenging because the way that the product closes, right? So when you open it, there's potentially not even room to add more texture points for a twist up. when trying to twist up instead of with fingertips to twist up. Again, just using more of like your entire hand so you get a little bit more of that gross grasp or like the big, the bigger muscles are coming in. sometimes even I'll have people try putting it between their like thumb and first finger in that little like skin space right in the corner. I don't know how to best describe this, and try use that leverage to help twist it instead of again needing like an active strength. Ashton: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kailey: But that's gonna depend on how easy the product is to twist up, your hand size is and truly it fits in your hand. Ashton: I find that their products are really great about being about like when you're applying them, I feel like they don't have a lot of friction. Like specifically, I'm definitely thinking about the deodorant right now. Like it's not one of those deodorants that drags that you have like a hard time that you have to like apply a lot of pressure to put on. Like this applies clear, is very like serum-like in its texture, so it goes on very easily. Then I'm also thinking about like the everywhere wash and how thin it is. So I feel like that also like lends itself to being, you know, around on your body more easily instead of a a thick texture that's going to require, you know, a little more force to to move around. Kailey: Mm. So I back forth on the thinness of body wash specifically. think great when it's thin because it's easier to slide on because it's already inside the packaging, right? But I sometimes with really thin body washes, when I pump them into my hand, if I don't have a washcloth or something, they just slide right off. Ashton: Right. Kailey: knowing ⁓ that it easy glide but at the same time, you have have some control of your arms and hands, depending unless you like spray right on, or spray it, unless you push it right onto your body. But even with pushing it, like it's just like boop ⁓ sliding right off. So ⁓ Ashton: Right. Right. Yeah, that's fair. I tend to apply mine on I have like an African exfoliating ⁓ nut sponge and I use that and then I I guess you could apply it straight to body, but then you would probably also be holding the product versus like being able to leave it on a shelf. So I don't it's really fully dependent on front. Kailey: Yeah. Yeah, that's typically like you said, I usually like things that are really easy to slide on for like deodorants and whatnot. But then sometimes with washes, I want it easy to dispense and then I want it glide easily, but almost like a foam texture where it stays its like form until you it and then it easily disperses. I is my favorite version, but that's not typically what we see. ⁓ Ashton: Right. That's in an ideal world, looking at the packaging right now, I realized when we started recording this, I was surrounded by Ludley products on my desk. I'm thinking about even some room for improvement on the front ⁓ of contrast and the on the products, especially because lot of their products are like pastel, very like and color, and they do use a lot of white and specifically, I'm looking at the cooling version right now, and I'm like, it's a very light blue, and of text on there just gets lost because it is so small ⁓ and it's So I think another room for improvement potentially in the or just like something to consider in future iterations because you know it is a little difficult to see. And I I'm thinking about my folks who do have low vision, and that would definitely be something that would be helpful in terms of just labeling. would love know kind of like bringing this to close, what is your overall rating of the brand in terms of thoughtfully accessible, accidentally accessible, or not accessible at all? Kailey: I think it's accessible in the context of a routine. they really have through how to make routines easier for consumers ⁓ and ⁓ using like one product across the body. I think it has a lot of products are helpful and supportive for those who might get fatigued easily or have chronic illness or, like you said, need alternative methods if showering every single day is not a possibility. I think the actual products themselves, some are accidentally accessible and some are truly just your typical run of the mill product. What you think? Ashton: Right. And I I think that's a very fair evaluation. I think it does require the context here. I would agree that is thoughtfully accessible amongst the context of the you know the brand's ethos trying to make care more accessible overall. I think, you know, as we've touched here, there's definitely some areas of improvement for pat on the packaging front. but I I love what the brand is doing as a whole. I am excited to see what comes from in the future. Hopefully, some of those really cool, luxurious shower cubs. that would be so, so good. ⁓ so thoughtfully accessible, accidentally accessible or not accessible at all, we'll let you decide either way. Take what works for you, leave what doesn't, and we'll meet you right back here deep in the well again soon. Love you. Bye. Kailey: that would be so good. ⁓ Love you guys.