Kailey Waskall: Beauty was never designed with disabled people in mind, but we're here anyways. Ashton McGrady: I'm Ashton Disabled Beauty Creator. Kailey Waskall: And I'm Kaylee, an occupational therapist. Ashton McGrady: And this is Accessibly Ever After, where we talk all things accessible beauty, inclusive design, and what it really means to make beauty work for real people. Kailey Waskall: Today, we're joined by Bella Morton Smith, an occupational therapist and former Mecca makeup artist who combined her two passions to create Flexi Beauty, a first of its kind adaptive makeup brush brand designed for people with reduced hand and wrist mobility. As a beauty lover herself, Isabella believes beauty is a powerful form of self-care and empowerment that's too often overlooked within the disability space. After five years of prototyping, trials, and real customer feedback, she officially launched her first product and is helping reimagine what accessibility in beauty can look like. Welcome to the pod, Bella. Isabella: Woohoo, yeah, I'm so excited to be here. Ashton McGrady: We're so Kailey Waskall: We Ashton McGrady: excited to have you. Kailey Waskall: I cannot wait to ask you all these questions. I absolutely love interviewing founders because I feel like your journeys are always so different and cool. Isabella: Mm. Kailey Waskall: And so I would love to know what first made you realize how inaccessible traditional beauty tools actually are for so many people. Isabella: Yeah, so I know everyone has such different journeys. mine was a little bit rocky and it took a while, but we're finally here, which I'm so excited to finally be out there and selling now. But for the start of the journey, when I first realized how inaccessible these beauty tools could be, at the time I was studying OT I had just started working at Mecca at the time. and that's sort of where that intersection of both of my worlds and my passions combined. and I was so excited to learn about makeup and how to do makeup through Mecca. but my OT brain was always on at that time, and that's where I was analyzing how people were interacting with the tools and environment within the store as well. so that's how it all came together because when I was working there, I did meet several women who had booked makeup applications for one of us to do their makeup because they weren't able to do it themselves anymore, whether that be because they had arthritis or tremors or just stiffness in their hands. and at the same time, as I was studying OT, that's when I was, you know, I was really thinking about all of those OT things that they get us to study and thinking about other time, Kailey Waskall: Mm. Isabella: you know, you start really deep diving into things that Before you started studying OT, you might not have thought about. That so that's really what opened up my eyes to all of that inside of the beauty industry. because it really made me realize like I love doing my makeup and I loved to learn how to do it at the time and to think that other people were ha like having difficulties with that because of these products or if they had reduced hand function, I could just imagine how frustrating that would be. especially if like these older women who I would do their makeup, they'd been doing it themselves their entire lives and then they just weren't able to do it the same anymore. where it started. Ashton McGrady: I'm not even an OT, but honestly, ever since I dove into Kailey Waskall: Ashton. Ashton McGrady: accessibility and beauty, I always say it's like the burden I carry as in I can't unsee it. I can't, when I go out Isabella: Yeah. Yeah. Kailey Waskall: Yeah. Ashton McGrady: in public, when I go to a Sephora, when I go to an Ulta now, I can't like turn that part of my brain off. And I'm always Isabella: Yeah. Ashton McGrady: kind of evaluating packaging, looking at it. And my first like the That's what I do just like at like by instinct now. So I can Isabella: Yeah. Yeah. Ashton McGrady: only imagine going through OT school what that would be like. Isabella: Yeah. It's really It really gets like cemented into your brain of all those little things that you look out for and you learn about the holistic approach. So you start, you know, thinking about the environment and the task of doing makeup and the products they use Ashton McGrady: Right. Isabella: and things like that. But it wasn't even like since actually seeing you guys on Instagram, you are the ones that actually made me look more at the products themselves. when I was first starting this process, I wasn't necessarily looking at the beauty products. I was other than brushes, Ashton McGrady: Right. Isabella: of course. I was more so thinking about the person and the brush, but not, you know, the concealer packaging and things like that. So you guys have actually got me clocking onto all of those things. Kailey Waskall: my goodness. Ashton McGrady: We don't even realize like how big that world is because you're right. It's like it's the environment, it's the products, it's so many things. It's obviously Isabella: We are Yeah. Ashton McGrady: the person. There's so many pieces involved. So as both an OT and a former makeup artist, how did those two worlds influence the way that you approach designing Flexi, like specifically in the design process? Isabella: Yeah. From my makeup artist side, I was very particular about the quality of the brush and the bristles themselves. so that was like the softness of the bristles and the shape and the density. because when I'm d applying makeup to people I use, you know, specific brushes for different things and so I really wanted it to I didn't want it to be, you know, like a a flimsy plastic Ashton McGrady: Right. Isabella: brush that wasn't going to blend well. I was very particular about those things. which actually caused quite a few back and forths with the with the manufacturer because I kept wanting them to change the shape and the density of the brush attachments Kailey Waskall: Ha ha ha. Isabella: themselves. so I don't know yes, yes. If I wasn't Ashton McGrady: This is why it took five years. Kailey Waskall: Yeah. Isabella: a makeup artist, yeah, I don't think I would have been yeah, it would have been a quicker process. That's Kailey Waskall: Yeah. Isabella: for sure. from the OT side, as I said before, like the OT brain, when you start studying that, you start, you know, you're constantly churning out ideas and problems and solutions. that's why you know, there's so many different features that I tried to include in this one brush because I kept thinking, well, you know, what if they have this and what if they need that? And then, okay, that's clear, but then what if the next person needs this? And so there was so many different disabilities and different injuries that I was trying to solve problems for as many as I could. but I guess Kailey Waskall: Yeah. Isabella: the reality is you can't fix every single, you know, challenge. Kailey Waskall: remember in OT school at the very beginning, our professors were like, Once you're done with this, you are going to look at the world a different way. And in my head, I was like, Okay, for sure. But but they're Isabella: Yeah. Yeah. Kailey Waskall: they're correct. Like it going through. Isabella: Yeah. Kailey Waskall: And I think like you said, Is so relatable that it's both like a positive, but it can also be a detriment because you think of all of these possibilities and all of these potential barriers and you want to create that universal design. But like we Isabella: Yeah. Kailey Waskall: say, universal design, like there's no one perfect product for everyone, right? Like Ashton McGrady: Yeah. Kailey Waskall: no matter what, there will always be something going Isabella: Yeah. And it would yeah. Kailey Waskall: on. more but yeah, yeah. Isabella: And it would drive you crazy trying to trying to solve all of them in one thing. Kailey Waskall: And so I think think that goes to our next question in that you spent five years prototyping Isabella: Yeah. Kailey Waskall: and gathering feedback and really trying to make a perfect product for everyone, even though we know that's really, really tricky. So, what were Isabella: Yeah. Yeah. Kailey Waskall: some of the biggest lessons or surprises during that process? Isabella: one of the biggest surprises or lessons was just how long everything takes and how much everything costs. That Ashton McGrady: Yeah. Kailey Waskall: Mm. Isabella: was my gosh, yes. That was one of the biggest things. as I was saying before, like you throughout this process and especially during the the beginning phases of this whole journey, it made me realise how different everyone's needs and experiences are. early on when I did like first start, I thought, yes, I'm gonna make this one brush and it's gonna s as I said, it's gonna solve everyone's problem ev problems, not problems, everyone's challenges that they're having. And then, you know, as you start making prototypes and I would trial them out with different people. So trialled out my prototypes with Maddie, who has cerebral palsy, compared to another lady who had rheumatoid arthritis. And so they both have different needs. it was really interesting actually to see that one person really benefited from the brush having that right-angled attachment while another person felt that because I actually had a ring brush as well. As one of my prototypes. Yeah. Kailey Waskall: Yeah. Isabella: I had a ring brush as well that you could put around your fingers or your wrist. and some other people preferred that one. But it it came down to really cost in the end. I could choose one or the other. and the one with the attachments with the different angles was beneficial for a lot more people and it was more adaptable Ashton McGrady: Right. Isabella: for people. yeah, so I think it was just interesting. you know, to see that no matter how many features I tried to add, you can't you can't, you know, win it it just really reinforced that importance of like co designing with people with lived dis with lived experience. because at the start I thought, I'm an OT. Well, I wasn't actually yet I was studying Kailey Waskall: Yeah. Isabella: in OT. Well I was like, you know, this is my this is my profession, like whatever. But no, actually co designing it makes you realise that Kailey Waskall: Yeah. Isabella: yeah, like you you need that yeah, you need that first hand experience. Kailey Waskall: it's always so interesting to the difference between like what we learn in school in case studies and then like when you're truly working with lived experience, people also interact with things in such different ways. And this goes disability Isabella: Yeah, yeah. Kailey Waskall: or not. Like the way that people interact with products and apply things and open things really, really changes depending on the person. Isabella: Yeah. Kailey Waskall: And so I think that is just so intro so cool and interesting that you were able to gather that feedback and see that just like throughout the process. Yeah. Isabella: Yeah. Yeah. It definitely opened up my eyes. and it even just made me realise how many more things we can be doing in this industry. Or, Kailey Waskall: Yeah. Isabella: you know, more more thing more changes that need to be made. Ashton McGrady: Right, we have we have a ways to go as an industry for sure. So you've touched on kind of the challenges, the you know, trying to design it for everyone, wanting to make sure everybody feels seen, the cost, the time it took. Is there any moment that d like during this five year process that you almost gave up? And what kept you going throughout the process? Isabella: there was definitely a lot of times where I won't say that I almost gave up because I don't think I ever would have actually done that. but I really wanted to. Or I'll say I threatened to. or like, Ashton McGrady: Right, right. So fair. Isabella: yeah. I wished I'd, you know, never started down that process, but I would have never actually given up. because every time that I would be so down about it, l my main thought was just I was like, I can't stop this because If it's is actually gonna help someone, I can't quit when I'm so far down the track and it's almost in people's hands and then just never never give it to them because I've Ashton McGrady: Right. Isabella: really felt like it could help people. And so for it to just never get out there was too sad. It was too sad for me. Ashton McGrady: I love that that's your why though. That speaks to what you do truly. Isabella: Yeah, I feel like it's it's very much tied to OT to being an Kailey Waskall: Yeah. Ashton McGrady: Yeah. Isabella: OT. I mean to me I felt like if it helped one person, I was like, Well what do I do? I can't just stop. It's gotta Ashton McGrady: Right. Isabella: get out there. People have to have a chance to try it. Kailey Waskall: Yeah, a hundred percent. And I mean, even if it just helped one person, you always have the opportunity to make more products in the future. And then you can help even more Ashton McGrady: Later, yeah. Isabella: Yeah. Kailey Waskall: people, you know? Ashton McGrady: No pressure or anything, Kaylee. Kailey Waskall: No no, I just I Isabella: Yeah. I need to ha I need to build up my money again first. Yeah, thanks. Yeah. Yeah. Kailey Waskall: Yeah. Okay, everybody go buy Flexi so she can r release the ring version. Ashton McGrady: Real. So we can see more accessible beauty products, yes. Kailey Waskall: well, I think especially too like high quality, right? Because a lot of things we talk about is that a lot of the adaptive tools are kind of ugly or very sterile, very medical. And so coming out with products where you're really trying to be almost like luxurio, not almost, but luxurious, right? Like high quality brushes that feel good, that work well. Isabella: Yeah. Kailey Waskall: So it's not just a, I'm trying to make this tool so it's easier. It's I want this tool to be something that you would, you'd all want. then it just happens. Mm-hmm. Ashton McGrady: Yeah, like not just functional, like an experience, you know? Isabella: Yeah. Kailey Waskall: Yeah. Isabella: Yeah. Kailey Waskall: in addition to that, I know we've talked quite a bit about or we've kind of touched on universal design and you've mentioned that one of your big barriers or one of your challenges in building this was really identifying how when to stop, right? Like how to make a product that is going to help a lot of people, even if it might not help. every single person. And so when we're Isabella: Yeah. Kailey Waskall: talking about universal design, what in your opinion does like truly accessible beauty design look like? Isabella: Yeah, that's that's like quite a brain teaser, that one. I don't think yeah. Ashton McGrady: It's a loaded question. Isabella: I don't think you can make one product truly accessible for everyone. but you can try. And I Kailey Waskall: Mm-hmm. Isabella: think that's honestly one of the main things. It's when you're creating a product, you're trying to consider you know, the widest possible range of people. it might not be everyone, but as many people as you can, and you're looking at that from the very beginning, not as an afterthought. So maybe a lot of products are designed and then it's an afterthought where they go, okay, yeah, we'll add up we'll add that on there to make it more accessible. I think universal design, you're trying to look at the product from the very beginning and every step of the way you're considering this in the design. it should go beyond just the product and you gotta look at your packaging for what's easier to open. you guys have actually taught me a lot about looking at products that don't roll off the vanity and everything like that as well. Ashton McGrady: Yeah. Isabella: but universal design, I think from working at Mecca and just going into beauty stores in general, that's also the layout of the store ties into all of this as well, I think. Ashton McGrady: I've talked about that so many times because I have lived it. Isabella: Which you guys yeah, and you guys are so good at Yeah, exactly. And you're so good at advocating for that. And they like they you've taught me so much about it as well. And I think it all of those things tie in to universal design to me. but it's also important that I'd I suppose the goal shouldn't be to, know, create a separate version of beauty products. I think it should be for all the beauty products People are looking at the design process from the beginning and it's just that's what it universal. A universal design. All of these Kailey Waskall: Yeah. Ashton McGrady: Right, baked in. Isabella: products that have, you know, more accessibility features as well. So it is, I think it's looking at so many different sides and different features. And I guess that ties into OT frameworks as well, like holistically. but to me that's a universal design. So I don't think it's possible to you know, have it accessible for every single person on the planet, but you're gonna make it f accessible for as many people as possible and whether that's bringing out different versions as well of one product with different accessibility features, that's another thing to consider as well. Ashton McGrady: Did working directly with disabled consumers, like not having that lived experience yourself, but like working with others who did, did that kind of challenge any assumptions you may have like initially had while developing the brushes? Isabella: Yeah, I I wouldn't say like it challenged any of my assumptions, but it did actually open up my eyes to like how many steps are involved in doing our makeup that can be challenging. so when I was making the brush, maybe I was just picturing applying the foc applying your your makeup, but I wasn't thinking about opening the product, laying out the products. what your environment looks like. working with people with different disabilities has opened my eyes to all of those other factors as well. And it's also, as I was saying before, just like o given me more insight into people's needs. and how they differ depending on their disability or diagnosis. So one person would benefit from it being one way while another preferred a different style as well. Kailey Waskall: that also is kind of a callback to what you talked about about having disabled people in the entirety of the process, right? Like from the very beginning, because Isabella: Yeah. Kailey Waskall: the more diversity, the more innovation, right? And so just Ashton McGrady: True. Kailey Waskall: really, really going from the beginning is how you can create, I in my opinion, like the best product. And this Isabella: Yeah. Kailey Waskall: is also kind of what we talked about earlier, but a lot of adaptive products end up feeling really clinical. can you talk Isabella: Yeah. Kailey Waskall: about how important it was for you that Flexi still felt stylish and exciting as a beauty brand? Isabella: that was really important. That was one of the, you know, the biggest things I was thinking about. I wanted it to feel luxurious and still aesthetic and really cute. because yeah, so many of those adaptive products are so medical and clinical looking. I mean, I I don't have lived experience myself, but I can imagine can make people feel singled out and it it it makes makes people feel different. Ashton McGrady: Right, especially I'm thinking about like disabled young people, Isabella: I was picturing that as well. I was picturing young girls, you know, wanting to do their makeup with their friends. and then you bring out a product and it you don't want to bring it with you with to your sleepover with your girls. Ashton McGrady: Right. Isabella: one of my friends, Jessie, when she first tried out my prototype when I had the final design, Jessie, we were friends since like pre-primary and she was diagnosed with early onset rheumatoid arthritis. when she was three, I think. and so when she first tried my brush, she was the literally she said, my gosh, like this is a product that if I was a young girl, I would bring it to a sleepover and I wouldn't feel embarrassed to bring it to Ashton McGrady: Yeah. Isabella: a sleepover. I feel like doing your makeup is so much about expressing yourself and its colour and its creativity and then if you're giving someone this ugly medical device to do that, it just doesn't seem right. You know, you want it to feel you want to feel all of those luxurious feelings as you're going through your beauty routine. also yeah. Ashton McGrady: I was just talking to another founder and she's in the hygiene body care space and we were talking very much about how you know like you want it to be able to feel not just like something you have to do, but something you get to do, something that feels like Isabella: Yeah. Ashton McGrady: a ritual, something that's actually enjoyable. And I feel like that's really not considered as much as it should be Isabella: Yeah. Ashton McGrady: in this space. Isabella: yeah. And it's exciting if you've got you know, a beautiful box to open and when you get these products and you put it on your vanity and it just feels it just looks nice on your vanity and it feels luxe. I feel like it adds so much more so many more special moments to those routines as well. Kailey Waskall: if someone listening has struggled to participate in beauty routines because they don't have all the cool tools or because of Isabella: Yeah. Kailey Waskall: chronic pain, tremors, fatigue, mobility limitations, what would you want them to hear? Isabella: Okay, I've actually got a few here. So Kailey Waskall: Fabulous. Isabella: number one, I would want them to hear that they are not the problem. The products were simply not designed with enough people in mind. because I feel that a lot of people might Get really frustrated with themselves and think, why? Like, why can't I do this? Why is it so hard for me? But it's not the products. You're looking at a cylindrical mascara tube. Who decided that that would be the norm for mascara tubes? Ashton McGrady: Right. Isabella: when you when you look back, that's quite ridiculous. Actually, Ashton McGrady: Mm-hmm. Isabella: like a smooth, you know, smooth, silky mascara tube. So yeah, the products just weren't designed smart, you know, next is that beauty and self-care are not frivolous things. it's so valid to really want to be a part of that and want to do that because it ties into so much of your s your confidence and your self esteem as well. number three I want people to know that accessibility doesn't have to look clinical or medical or ugly, as we say. Ashton McGrady: Amen. Isabella: deserve products that are functional, but they're also beautiful and cute and aesthetic, and you want them on your vanity and you want to take them to your sleepovers. and that they're not alone. So there are so many p I guess throughout this whole process I've really learned and from being on flexi on social media now and seeing this, whole community on Instagram and TikTok. There are so many people who are quietly navigating these same challenges. And I really hope the industry just continues to move forward with more inclusive design so that everyone can participate in beauty. Ashton McGrady: I I talk about this a lot, but I growing up in the southern United States, I feel like disability growing up was very, very hush hush, not talked about. And so it wasn't until I had social media because I listen, I'm gonna age myself here, but it didn't exist when I was younger. The internet Kailey Waskall: Yeah. Ashton McGrady: was still not a thing for a while. and so Isabella: Yeah. Ashton McGrady: I didn't have that same connection and community that I do now. And I wholeheartedly Isabella: Yeah. Ashton McGrady: agree. I I had no idea it was out there until I was there and I was like my gosh like this is incredible. Not only is it incredible because we're able to form so many connections and friendships and network and all these things, but I think it's just so good to have exposure and representation of all these varying, you know, diversity within disability because we see Isabella: Yeah. Ashton McGrady: often just like one stereotyped version of disability. So I agree that has truly opened my eyes and opened my world. And I Could not be the same without it. Truly. Isabella: everyone in this in the community on socials is so encouraging and so supportive as well. Kailey Waskall: in kind of talking about your community and people. If there are Isabella: Yeah, yeah. Kailey Waskall: people listening who are interested in supporting Flexi or purchasing or looking at your product, where can they find you? Isabella: my Instagram is just Flexi Beauty with double X. So F-L-E-X-X-I beauty. And with my website it's just flexibeauty.com. Ashton McGrady: Okay, we're gonna get into I consider this a very fun, we ask a lot of like heavy questions at the top of this and then we get into this very fun rapid fire moment. So if you're ready, Isabella: Yeah. Yeah. I've got them ready. I'm ready. Ashton McGrady: All right, so lip gloss or lipstick? Isabella: Lip gloss and lip liner. Ashton McGrady: Okay, fair. Bold glam or no makeup makeup? Isabella: I'm gonna say bold. Ashton McGrady: Okay, cream or powder products. Isabella: cream. Ashton McGrady: Okay, Morning shower or night shower? Isabella: Night. Ashton McGrady: Matcha or coffee? Isabella: Coffee, not a matcha girl. Ashton McGrady: Dewey or Matt? Isabella: Dewey. Ashton McGrady: Favorite form of self care outside of beauty. Isabella: reading all the time. Ashton McGrady: Love, love, love. We need to yap about reading another day. Favorite feel-good comfort show or movie? Isabella: I've got two that I can't ever choose between. I've got Twilight and Harry Ashton McGrady: Okay, give me both. Isabella: Potter. Yeah. Ashton McGrady: What's your go-to coffee order? Isabella: I get an arm in flat white. Ashton McGrady: What is your I will repurchase this literally forever product? Isabella: My favorite product which I get from Mecca is the Ilya mascara. Ashton McGrady: one beauty Isabella: it is. Ashton McGrady: tool you think deserves an adaptive redesign? Isabella: Okay. the eyelash curler. Ashton McGrady: What is something bringing you joy lately? Isabella: The off campus series? Ashton McGrady: finally, what is one Isabella: Yeah. Ashton McGrady: thing you can never leave the house without? Isabella: my Stanley Cup. I've got a I've got a cute like Ashton McGrady: Gotta be Isabella: bubblegum pink Stanley cup. Kailey Waskall: And on that note, thank you so much for coming on, Bella. It has been an absolute joy to speak with you. All of the products and places to connect with you will be linked in the description below. If you are listening, please do go support Bella and Flexi Beauty. We are just so grateful to have had the chance to meet you. Isabella: Thank you so much for having me on here. That was so much fun. And I'm so glad that we finally got to chat. Ashton McGrady: if this episode felt helpful, consider subscribing, sharing it with your bestie, or leaving a review so we can keep the dream alive. Kailey Waskall: And the lights on. We'll see ya later guys.