Kailey Waskall: Beauty was never designed with disabled people in mind, but we're here anyways. Ashton McGrady: Disabled Beauty Creator. Kailey Waskall: And I'm Kaylee, an occupational therapist. Ashton McGrady: And this is Accessibly Ever After, where we talk all things accessible beauty, inclusive design, and what it really means to make beauty work for real people. Kailey Waskall: Today we are so excited to have someone who you've probably seen on your feed with a fabulous eye makeup looks, beautiful advocacy, and we are gonna let her introduce herself. Welcome to the podcast, Gio. Giovanna Ferri: Hello, thank you guys so much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here. I'm Giovanna. I'm a creative makeup lover and I'm passionate about inspiring others to be bold in their makeup routines and everyday life. I also offer one-on-one graphic liner consultations to help people find graphic liner looks that look for their eye shapes. And I have a cat named Bert who I'm obsessed with and talk about all the time. And I'm autistic. So all of those things make me me. Ashton McGrady: I love it. Giovanna Ferri: Hello. Ashton McGrady: This is the Burt fan club actually. Kailey Waskall: How old is Bert? Giovanna Ferri: It is. He's He's 11. He is 11. He is a senior Kailey Waskall: How old is Burt? old baby. Giovanna Ferri: man. Ashton McGrady: my panda Kailey Waskall: love. Ashton McGrady: is like, I think she's 10 now. She's either nine or 10, and that's really bad. But to be fair, she was a stray. We don't have an exact birthday. That's as close as we're getting. Giovanna Ferri: So whisper, yeah, he's the same, approximately 11, but not totally sure, because he was also a stray. Ashton McGrady: Just a cute old man. I'm so excited to dive into this conversation and questions with you. So I guess we will just take it away. as Kayleigh just mentioned and you touched on, are known for your really playful artistic makeup, especially your eye makeup. Was there a moment when makeup stopped feeling like something you had to do correctly started feeling like something you could play with instead? Giovanna Ferri: Yes, absolutely. So back in 2020, that's when, you lockdown first started and I had just been laid off from a job right before then. So I had a lot of time on my hands to play with makeup. And so I was determined to get really, really good at And I really locked in on soft glam because that was like the popular style at that time. I was just practicing and practicing doing so many soft glam. looks and I finally got to a point where I got, you know, quote unquote, good at it, but I still didn't love the way it looked on me. I was like, why is this technically good makeup, but I don't feel, I'm not feeling the feeling that I'm seeing other people feel when they make videos putting this type of makeup So I had a day Ashton McGrady: Right. Giovanna Ferri: where I just allowed myself to get a little bit creative and throw a bunch of glitter on my face. looked like a total clown, like did even more than I do now. And I just felt so good. Like, and that's what made it click for me. Once I started doing more creative makeup, I was like, this is what makes me feel like myself. This is what's fulfilling for me. So yeah, it was the soft glam Ashton McGrady: All right. Yeah. Giovanna Ferri: to glitter pipeline for me. Ashton McGrady: we've all been there, right? Giovanna Ferri: Yeah. Ashton McGrady: No one is immune to that propaganda I fear. like so many people just like forget that makeup is never that serious and it is meant to be fun. Kailey Waskall: When you were starting out, I know you started with glitter, but when did you really like dive into like the super cool, intensive graphic? Was that like at the beginning or kind of over time? Giovanna Ferri: It was probably also at the beginning. I started with the glitter and then I think, you know, I just started to follow more creative people online. I changed the way my feed looked, you know, instead of following all people Kailey Waskall: Mm-hmm. Mmm. Ashton McGrady: real. Giovanna Ferri: who were doing the very typical soft glam or, you know, just like neutral eyeshadows and everything. I started following people who were more creative. Vanessa, who's at Cut Creaser. on Instagram. I'm sure you guys have seen her. She's very popular, Ashton McGrady: Yes. Giovanna Ferri: but she was one of Kailey Waskall: Yeah. Giovanna Ferri: the first graphic liner girlies I started following that I was like, okay, I need to try what she's doing. That looks so fun. she gave great recommendations for like more affordable graphic liner kits, which I thought was awesome. Ashton McGrady: I love that. Giovanna Ferri: So I was able to actually purchase a little kit of mini liners. And from the first time I put those on, I was like, okay, this is actually it. This is actually my niche interests. This is what makes me feel the most like me. It feels like just drawing on my eyes. And I love that because I've always loved visual arts. Art class was always Ashton McGrady: Right. Giovanna Ferri: my favorite. And I paint a lot in my free time. I just love to be drawing, love to be painting. Ashton McGrady: my gosh, new lore I love that. mean, it really is. It's all just art. Giovanna Ferri: I have a wall my kitchen that is, it's all just art. I have a wall of Burt paintings in my kitchen. And Kailey Waskall: GASP Ashton McGrady: my gosh. Giovanna Ferri: when I say a wall, I mean, there's like 15 of them. There's a lot. Ashton McGrady: I love that. Kailey Waskall: so fun. Yeah, I do have picture. Well, I really like rocks, Giovanna Ferri: Oooooh! Kailey Waskall: like stones. And so I have three cat stones and it's one for each color of my cat. So I have an orange one. Well, she's dead, but I have her, she's laying down and the stone is on top of her. Ashton McGrady: This is only making me laugh because it unlocked the memory of the first time I came to your house or no We were FaceTiming and she's like, here's my cat I don't even remember which cat I must have Nimbus and then you Kailey Waskall: Nimbus because we got nebula later. Ashton McGrady: go and here's and then you go, and here's Rigby and he's dead. And I was like, okay. I love that. Kailey Waskall: Sorry. But anyways, yes. So I have a little orange cat laying down on top of her ashes. And then I have Ashton McGrady: That's so sweet. Kailey Waskall: the gray and black cats sitting up right in front. So I'm like, she's just looking over them. So I totally get the Giovanna Ferri: Yes! Kailey Waskall: artsy putting your cats in art because that is not that Giovanna Ferri: Yes! Kailey Waskall: rocks are art, but decoration. Giovanna Ferri: They are though, I get it. Ashton McGrady: I actually really need to show you guys, I had a commissioned print done of my dog with a bunch of like makeup and like lips. He's like holding lipstick. It's really cute and so silly. Giovanna Ferri: Ooooo! Ashton McGrady: And so unserious. It's like one of those like badly drawn but like intentionally it's very cute. I do love it. But I love that makeup like brings out that creative side and makes you feel artistic. Did you, especially when we were all in the clutches of that soft glam and the minimalistic glam and the clean girl aesthetic, did you expect your artistic style to resonate with so many people the way it has? Giovanna Ferri: No, not at all. I started posting just to connect with other makeup lovers online because I didn't have a lot of people in my real life who are super into makeup. I know a lot of people get into, you know, learn makeup from their moms. My mom didn't wear makeup. She had a jar of sparkly bronzer and that was pretty much it for her makeup drawer. Kailey Waskall: Mmm. Giovanna Ferri: She's like a mascara every once in a while type gal. So I didn't learn it from her Kailey Waskall: Mm-hmm. Giovanna Ferri: and I didn't really get into makeup in general other than just wearing mascara until after I graduated college and got real depressed and discovered Beauty YouTube. And I was like, wow, these people seem so happy. Kailey Waskall: don't mean to laugh, but it's because I those YouTube. Ashton McGrady: Probably the most relatable thing that's ever been said on this podcast if we're being honest. Kailey Waskall: Yes. Ashton McGrady: post-college depression, being in the throes of the YouTube beauty gurus. I was there too. Kailey Waskall: this kind of ties into our next question, but often, or at least this has been my experience where I am late diagnosed neurodivergent, got diagnosed I think last year, like it's very within the last year. But I noticed more signs of my neurodivergence or really started like actually struggling with being an adult when I graduated college because I feel like I was in such a... rise and grind state for so many years that when I finally had some freedom to like be a full adult, I was like, no. But I would love to know kind of how neurodivergence shapes the way that someone might experience or how you've experienced your beauty products or routines and like how that looks in your day-to-day beauty routine, Giovanna Ferri: Yeah, so it influenced me a lot when I was first getting into makeup, which was before I realized I was neurodivergent in the sense of all or nothing thinking. So when I first got Kailey Waskall: Mmm. Giovanna Ferri: into makeup, I thought that I needed to have every single product in a full makeup routine, which especially in 2017, that was a lot of products. People were using... Ashton McGrady: Ooh girl. Giovanna Ferri: foundation, baking powder, powder contour, liquid contour, liquid blush, powder blush. Like there were so many products that went into a Nikki Tutorials tutorial, who was one of my favorite beauty YouTubers, that I felt very, Ashton McGrady: Yes, same. Giovanna Ferri: overwhelmed. I felt like, my gosh, I have to get all of these things in order to play with makeup. And so it hasn't been until the last couple years that I've realized that you don't have to wear every single product in a, you know, quote unquote makeup routine. Just because all of these products exist doesn't mean you need to wear all of them in order to feel good about your makeup. Bronzer was the one that took me the longest time. I wore bronzer for so, so, so long and In the beginning, I thought like, okay, I'm just not good at it and I don't know the right color to get. So that's why I don't like the way it looks on me. And then the more I learned about it and the more different colors and undertones I tried and got better at blending, I finally just realized, you know what? It just doesn't feel like me and that's fine. And so I can just skip And now I just skip it Ashton McGrady: As someone who is fair skinned, cool tone, who can hardly ever pull off a bronzer, I feel that deeply. Kailey Waskall: I also think it's a really good point to say like there really are no rules like you can wear what is comfortable for you Ashton McGrady: I know I've seen you talk to some, and you can crack me if I'm wrong, but about like sensory differences when it comes to beauty products. I know this is something that I've experienced that's really difficult for me. find a lot of challenges with it as someone who loves makeup, but doesn't always love the way makeup feels. Could you maybe like talk to me about some of your experiences with sensory differences and how it impacts also like your beauty routines? Giovanna Ferri: Yes, absolutely. I have a lot of sensory Kailey Waskall: No, that's the Giovanna Ferri: sensitivities. back when I was still very committed to doing the full glam, soft glam thing and using all of the products that people told me to use, I would get so frustrated looking at myself up close in the mirror and seeing the makeup in the spots where it wasn't fully settled into the skin. I couldn't handle the up close looking at myself in the mirror seeing I don't wanna say seeing the makeup looking perfect, but just like seeing it sitting on my skin rather than looking like skin. So that's kind of when I made my transition to, okay, I'm gonna start going for skin tints and stuff that has skincare Ashton McGrady: Yeah. Giovanna Ferri: in it that I can apply with my hands. that's a big sensory thing. I cannot use a beauty sponge. I wish I could. Ashton McGrady: That's so Giovanna Ferri: that sponge, I might as well be using a dishwashing sponge on my face, the way my body reacts. I just do not like the way it feels at all. I'm never Ashton McGrady: It just gives you the yick. Giovanna Ferri: convinced that they're clean. Ashton McGrady: just wrong. It's just Giovanna Ferri: cannot use sponge. Ashton McGrady: I hate the feeling of makeup on my face. I'll literally, I'll get done filming a look and I'm like, my gosh, I have to get this off immediately. Giovanna Ferri: Yes! Ashton McGrady: how I'm able to, even at nighttime, I'm like, my gosh, I can't settle down into my like chill nighttime routine. My wife and I love to like. binge some TV, chill, eat dinner, whatever. I can't do any of that until I've taken my makeup off because I love the way it looks, but I hate the way it feels. Giovanna Ferri: Yes, especially, and I don't know if this is a neurodivergent thing, but I touch my face a lot subconsciously. And even though, you know, I'll wear makeup products that set down, I look down and have glitter under my fingernails and I'm like, Oh, when did that happen? What did I do? So I totally relate to needing to take it off. Ashton McGrady: Real. Real. anything that feels like sticky... Kailey Waskall: you Ashton McGrady: Anything that feels sticky is just so bad. That's just like the worst feeling. Or like if your hair starts sticking to your face. Nope. That's it Giovanna Ferri: my gosh, yeah. Ashton McGrady: for me. That will send me into rage. Sensory sensitivities happen for so many of us. I just think it's not talked about enough. It's not normalized enough. It's okay if you don't love wearing a full face of makeup, Kailey Waskall: knowing that you have these sensory sensitivities and that you find yourself just kind of like fidgeting with your face, I think might be the best way to describe it. Have Giovanna Ferri: Yeah. Kailey Waskall: you found any accommodations that you'd be comfortable sharing that? You kind of do in your day-to-day life to help alleviate some of these sensitivities. I know avoiding the Beauty Blender is definitely one But can you think of any others? Giovanna Ferri: my gosh, so many. My favorite non-makeup accommodation has been Amber light bulbs. I've Ashton McGrady: that. Giovanna Ferri: turned all of my light bulbs into Amber light bulbs because I grew up in a house where my parents had the fluorescent lights turned up all the way, all the time. and I found that to be very stressful. And still when I go home to visit them, they have like dimmable lights. So I'll always dim the lights when I'm in a room alone. And then they walk in and turn them all the way up. And I'm like, I don't know how you tolerate this. It is way too bright for me. for some makeup ones, Brow gels have become thing I've become very picky about because I've realized a lot of them that claim to have high hold tend to feel like hairspray on your eyebrows and when Kailey Waskall: Mm-hmm. Giovanna Ferri: they dry down, you Ashton McGrady: Yeah. Giovanna Ferri: can feel that physical coat. on your eyebrows. And yeah, I finally got into the point where I'm like, no, I need a very specific type of brow gel if I end up wearing brow gel at all. Because if I can feel my eyebrows feeling solid, That really stresses me out. Ashton McGrady: Yeah. Giovanna Ferri: That's also why I don't wear falsies ever. I always get comments from people being like, this look would look so much better with falsies. And I'm like, yeah, maybe, but I just can't do it. Ashton McGrady: Kayleigh and I have talked about falsies so much, like trying to find even the like most lightweight falsies we possibly can, they still feel aversive to me. It doesn't matter what you do. Giovanna Ferri: Yeah! Ashton McGrady: Like I haven't found a perfect one yet. Kailey Waskall: the one I tolerate the most for ease is the Wasado ones because I hate pulling off the glue at the end of the night. So I love the magnetic version where I can just like put them on and I've literally been out at like a bar or something and I like pull them off because I'm like, I'm done. And I bring the little Giovanna Ferri: Yes! Kailey Waskall: bag with me or the little box. But I also really like individual lashes for that reason. because I find that they are almost for me undetectable when I put them on correctly, but I rarely have the patience to do that. So I'm with you. You will rarely see me in a falsie unless it's like, I don't know, a photo Giovanna Ferri: I did rock with the magnetic ones for a little while for the same reason. I loved that I could just take them off and didn't have to worry about lash glue because lash glue is an equal is like an equal culprit to the sensory sensitivity. think, you know, I focus a lot on the lash feeling too heavy, but it's also the glue because the glue gets stuck in your eyelashes. And sometimes it rips Ashton McGrady: Yeah Giovanna Ferri: out a lash when you take it off. if I see like eyelashes in my hands when I'm taking my makeup off, I'm like, I'm never gonna wear makeup again. What is this? Like, I don't want this to happen. Ashton McGrady: so for someone who feels stuck in a beige eyeshadow sort of comfort zone, maybe clean girl also has them in a choke hold, but they want to explore what is one tiny way that they could start experimenting without feeling overwhelmed by all the graphic liner, all the crazy makeup, what is just one small thing they could maybe do to tiptoe into that. Giovanna Ferri: Yes. my gosh. Okay. I have two answers. One, if they like mascara, I would recommend colorful mascara because it can be kind of subtle. You know, I guess it depends on what brand you buy, but if you want to stick to the drug store, know, Maybelline sells a couple of burgundy or blue mascara. think they have a green one too. And that's a really great way to add a little bit of color. by just having it be the last step of your routine. I knew a girl in high school who used to wear blue mascara every day and I thought she was just the coolest. I was like, what a good Ashton McGrady: Yeah. Giovanna Ferri: signature just have blue mascara on. That's so cool. But if they don't like mascara, I would recommend adding a sparkly eyeshadow that has a little bit of color in it. Cause that's another subtle thing where like you can still wear your neutral matte eyeshadows, but then instead of going over it with a champagne shade, as SoftGlam tends to do, over it with like an iridescent purple shade. That can be kind of fun. Ashton McGrady: love that. I love that. I feel like sometimes it can feel scary. I like sit here and I'll look at all of the things around me I'm like, don't even know where to begin. before I started really experimenting with makeup and like colorful makeup, I remember just being so overwhelmed because the first thing I do, of course, is like look on Pinterest and look on TikTok and whatever. And I'm looking up colorful makeup and I'm seeing all these crazy amazing looks, which are fantastic. But like We don't start there, right? Like we all have to start somewhere. Giovanna Ferri: Yeah. Exactly, exactly. A colorful water lane color is another good thing to do. Kailey Waskall: you Giovanna Ferri: into your makeup look, but I totally agree with you that yeah, you look up colorful makeup and it's like all colorful or all neutral. That's that neurodivergent way of thinking again, right? With the all or nothing, I either need to be all neutral or I need to be all colorful. And that's not the case. You can do a little bit of both. Kailey Waskall: speaking of kind of that all or nothing thinking and of those different aspects of being neurodivergent, you do talk openly about mental health. So how does like creativity, including makeup, help you kind of process those emotions or regulate your nervous system? Giovanna Ferri: It helps so much, my goodness. It helps in the sense that when I'm sitting down to do my makeup, my brain doesn't have the opportunity to wander and spiral over all of these different things. It kind of feels like a nervous system override to me when I sit down to do my makeup because just, don't have, there's not enough bandwidth between deciding where to place the glitter and where to place the eyeliner. and being super anxious over the rest of the things going on in my life. And I also try to set a good vibe when I do my makeup. don't know if you can see it in videos all the time, because I try to cover it with my hair, but I always have headphones in. I never don't have headphones in when I'm home during the day and I'm always listening to music or an audio book. So that is kind Another thing that keeps my nervous system from getting too overwhelmed because between having the audiobook going and focusing in on doing my makeup, there's just no other brain bandwidth for me to be anxious. Ashton McGrady: I love the way you Kailey Waskall: love. Ashton McGrady: phrased it as like the reset, the reset of your nervous system. I think that's such Giovanna Ferri: Yes. Ashton McGrady: a good way to view it. Kailey Waskall: a really cool way to ground yourself. I find anecdotally that a lot of neurodivergent people, myself included, have a hard time kind of connecting body feelings to emotions, or we experience them in different ways, So I would just love to know you resonate with that and kind of how that impacts your daily life. Giovanna Ferri: I feel like my ability to process emotions is delayed and it took me a long time to be able to articulate that to other people in my life that sometimes when I receive a piece of information, I will just kind of feel numb about it and I don't have an immediate reaction one way or another. Usually the reaction when I don't know what my feeling about something is just panic. So I've learned Kailey Waskall: Hmm. Giovanna Ferri: to be able to tell people I need a moment to sit with this in order to figure out how I'm feeling about it because I don't always have an immediate feeling reaction. beyond just panic and sometimes I need to take a walk about it. I do that a lot. need to like, if I have something I need to think about and think about how I'm feeling about it, need to get outside, I need to put my headphones in and listen to some music for a while and then come back to it. Ashton McGrady: Find your rubber Kailey Waskall: I think it's really cool how you have found all of these ways to advocate for yourself. And I'm just kind of wondering how that might pertain to your social media. So like, have you ever felt pressure to create a certain type of content that like, you might in the moment be like, don't know how I feel about this content, but once you process, you're kind of like, this doesn't feel authentic to me. And then how did you kind of navigate through that? Giovanna Ferri: Yeah, absolutely. first thing that comes to my mind is all of the live content that a lot of people do. I think I was pushing myself Ashton McGrady: Yeah Giovanna Ferri: to do live streaming a lot a couple years ago, and I finally realized that that is just not conducive to my nervous system at all. need pauses. I need some time to not have my face be perceived. my smile starts to make my face hurt. Like I would do these live streams on my YouTube channel once a week. I did that for a few months at a time and I would have to just like sit dead silence and stare at my computer for a while afterwards because had had to be on for so long. So that was definitely a type of content I realized was not good for my nervous system. Ashton McGrady: I remember you talking about everybody's creating this music centered, people are making stuff to songs and you're like, I don't really do that and I don't know if I should do that. deciding whether something felt authentic to you and grappling with that. Like that's such a real human experience. Giovanna Ferri: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think as creators, it's hard especially as I'm a full-time creator, this is how I make my money. So it's hard to turn off the part of my brain that's like, what type of content is successful? What type of content is getting people Ashton McGrady: Great. Giovanna Ferri: brand deals? And I was seeing that a lot of people who were getting the sponsored posts and getting collaborations with the brands I wanted to work with. were making videos to music that were very just like aesthetically pleasing. And I tried doing that Ashton McGrady: Right. Giovanna Ferri: for years. If you go back and look at my Instagram from 2022, I used to Ashton McGrady: you Giovanna Ferri: film all of my videos on a fancy camera. It's my fiance's camera, but he has like a really nice Canon camera. And I was filming them all on there. I would edit them in iMovie. Like I would spend so much time editing these videos. And while I would feel satisfied at the end and being like, okay, yeah, that looks good, that looks very aesthetically pleasing, it wasn't as fulfilling creatively to me. Ashton McGrady: makes a lot of sense. And I know like you're talking about working with brands and you are a full-time creator. And when it comes to brands and some of these like... relationships and interactions with them, some of these are face-to-face at things like creator events. in my experience, I struggled with this for so long because of course you want to build that relationship, you wanna find the people you connected with over email, you want to shake their hand And so they remember you down the line and maybe potentially you're able to work with them or just like, you know, it is nice to meet other people in the industry. also it's scary. And I feel like that's not talked Giovanna Ferri: Yes. Ashton McGrady: about enough. Giovanna Ferri: No, not at all. my gosh, I relate so much. So many of these influencer events are just mingling. And for me, there is no higher form of torture than mingling in a room of people who I don't Ashton McGrady: Truly. Giovanna Ferri: know, and where I am responsible for starting conversations. I've been to Quite a few influencer events, I don't go to them very often anymore. back in 2024, my therapist and I agreed that I was gonna go to a few influencer events view them like an experiment, you know, just gathering intel, seeing what I liked, Ashton McGrady: Like exposure? Yes. Giovanna Ferri: seeing what I didn't like, and then being able to form opinion on whether or not it was something I wanted to keep doing. ones that I really enjoyed were the ones where they were planned out and there was stuff to do. So one I had a really good time at was a new location or they opened up like a spa location in New York City. Ashton McGrady: Yeah. Giovanna Ferri: So they invited us to check it and they let me touch everything. They let me smell Kailey Waskall: you Giovanna Ferri: everything. and the people who were running the event like walked around with me the whole time. Which is great for me Ashton McGrady: love that so much. Giovanna Ferri: because that's what I struggle with at influencer events is if I walk into a room and nobody comes up to me, I really don't know how Ashton McGrady: Yo. Giovanna Ferri: to start talking to someone at all. I'll just like stand there and smile and Ashton McGrady: I feel that. Giovanna Ferri: try to look approachable. I'm like, please, please approach me. I promise I'm friendly, but I can't approach you first. Ashton McGrady: I feel that so much. I will say, I feel like the only thing that is my saving grace is that I typically have my service dog, Forrest, with me and he is kind of like this built-in icebreaker because people wanna come up Giovanna Ferri: Yes! Ashton McGrady: and talk to the person with the cute dog because if I don't have Giovanna Ferri: Yeah. Ashton McGrady: him, I feel kind of naked I also, I don't know how to initiate conversations if it's not super structured. I love that you mentioned that. If it's not super structured and there's just like happy hour. and mingling time. That Giovanna Ferri: Yes. Ashton McGrady: is truly my worst nightmare. I've been to many events like that. I love when there's like bit of education and there's interactive aspects of it. And like there's things to do also, like if a brand like provides some sort of agenda, I don't know about you, but just like having the structure so I know what Giovanna Ferri: Yes. Ashton McGrady: to expect. And if I need to dip out. Giovanna Ferri: you're right, most of the time they don't give you an agenda at all. And they're just like, come to our event. It's happening at this place and at this time. And so when they would do that, I would email them back and say, would you be able to give me a more detailed schedule? And whenever I said that people would always respond so kindly and be like, yes, of course. And they would give more information. So that was really helpful. Ashton McGrady: I'm so glad that like brands were receptive to that and they were willing to accommodate you because you know, they're obviously, people have bad experiences with that and it's really unfortunate, but. Just the fact that you are able to advocate for yourself, like you should feel proud of that. the best brand events I've ever been to was because I pulled up at a table for a dinner and they had a chair already removed for me. And just like that extra mile of just like consideration truly went such a long Giovanna Ferri: That's awesome. Ashton McGrady: way and like made an impression me. with that brand like immediately right off the bat. So I'm glad that you've had good experiences that through your therapist and your therapy journey, you've been able to better advocate for yourself in those spaces. But on that same exact note, if brands are listening right to this podcast and they want to make their creator events more accessible for neurodivergent people, What are some things that you think they could do differently? Giovanna Ferri: well they could absolutely send the schedule out without having to be asked for it as I said, I have trouble initiating conversations I think if brands could make sure that they have people working the event whose job it is to make sure everybody's feeling comfortable, you know, maybe pay attention to the people who are standing on their own. I've been to events Kailey Waskall: Hmm. Giovanna Ferri: that are so crowded that I just like would look around and see that I'm the only person standing alone and everybody's in a group. that just makes me want to leave. Kailey Waskall: that also brings up a really good point, a lot of times the disabled or the neurodivergent person is expected to make these accommodations, right? You have to advocate for yourself. You have say what your needs are. People expect you to basically figure out your life in a way that doesn't impact them often, right? it's also a really good note for like neurotypical people or just people at events where like, if you notice someone, on the edge, like you can bring them into your circle. even if you don't know if they're gonna hang out in your circle for a long time, even just reaching that handout goes such a long way and can really help just the entire experience so that it's not also all on the neurodivergent or the disabled person to figure out how to integrate themselves into these spaces. Giovanna Ferri: another thing brands could do is if you say an event is between six and eight, can you tell me exactly when to come to that event? Because I don't know how to not show up 15 minutes early. And I've shown up 15 Kailey Waskall: That's true. Giovanna Ferri: minutes early before and the people at the event seemed mad at me for it. And I was like, I Kailey Waskall: laughing? Ashton McGrady: I'm gonna cry because this is too relatable. Giovanna Ferri: don't know how to fix this. Kailey Waskall: This is me. I will sit in my car because I'm usually there like 10, 15 and I'm like, Giovanna Ferri: Same. Kailey Waskall: OK, But then you go up at the exact time and people are like, Ashton McGrady: Hello? Kailey Waskall: Like we're not, I'm like, fashionably late shouldn't be a thing. Giovanna Ferri: Yeah. you get there right on time, they look at you like you're too early. And I'm like, well, if you didn't want Kailey Waskall: Okay. Giovanna Ferri: me to come at six, then don't say six to eight, say six, 15 to eight. Ashton McGrady: Okay, so we're going to go into a rapid fire segment. Are you ready? Giovanna Ferri: Yes. Ashton McGrady: coffee or matcha? Giovanna Ferri: Coffee in the morning, matcha as an afternoon pick me up. Ashton McGrady: Morning person or night owl? Giovanna Ferri: night owl. cannot get out of bed in the morning. Ashton McGrady: Favorite comfort show. Giovanna Ferri: Bob's Burgers! I wind down my evening with Bob's Burgers every night. Ashton McGrady: Amazing. Cats or dogs? Giovanna Ferri: Ugh, this one is so hard. I love them both, but cats are autistic, so I relate to them more. Ashton McGrady: A hill you Giovanna Ferri: haha Ashton McGrady: will absolutely die on. Giovanna Ferri: there are no rules when it comes to makeup. You are not going to stop me from wearing graphic liner and wearing black eyeshadow just because Kailey Waskall: I'm also... Ashton McGrady: you Giovanna Ferri: face is soft. Ashton McGrady: Graphic liner or bold blush? Giovanna Ferri: liner. Ashton McGrady: Brushes or fingers? Giovanna Ferri: But when it comes to liner, I have to use brushes, but any sort of face makeup is fingers. Ashton McGrady: Dewey or Matt? Giovanna Ferri: alternative third answer, which pearlescent Ashton McGrady: Nuance. That's okay. Giovanna Ferri: with a dry down because Dewey is too sticky, Ashton McGrady: I love that. Giovanna Ferri: Matt is too drying, Kailey Waskall: Mm-hmm. Giovanna Ferri: but I want to be sparkly, but I just need it to be dry. Ashton McGrady: A beauty rule that should be illegal. Giovanna Ferri: as a member of Ashton McGrady: real. Giovanna Ferri: the round face committee, you're not going to stop me from wearing sharp makeup just because my face is round. Like that does not matter to me. Ashton McGrady: most sensory friendly beauty product. Giovanna Ferri: ColourPop has these liquid blushes that have a pearlescent finish that I love because for that very reason, they give the appearance of your skin looking dewy. but they don't transfer at all. They also call them weightless liquid blushes. So I kind of agree with that. They feel Ashton McGrady: Love that. Giovanna Ferri: very lightweight on Kailey Waskall: and Giovanna Ferri: the skin. Ashton McGrady: a product texture you absolutely cannot handle. Giovanna Ferri: dry down matte liquid lip. I don't know how I made it through 2016, 2017, Kailey Waskall: WHAAAT? Giovanna Ferri: because I did wear them, I would just be like chewing on my lips the whole time. I was like, this feels so bad. I feel like my lips are going to split open. just painful. Kailey Waskall: Mm-hmm. Ashton McGrady: I just got shivers down my spine, I'm not gonna lie. Giovanna Ferri: Yeah Ashton McGrady: A product you wish existed but doesn't yet. Giovanna Ferri: want the formula of a cushion foundation, but without the cushion. That's something I've realized lately is I really like the formula that typically comes in a cushion foundation, but I don't like having to press into the cushion. I don't like not knowing how much product is left in there. So if they could just like take Kailey Waskall: Hmm. Giovanna Ferri: those formulas, but put it in a pump bottle so I could use it like that. Kailey Waskall: our last question is, what is like one message out of everything that we've talked about that we haven't talked about that you just really hope listeners gain from listening to this podcast? Giovanna Ferri: accepting your neurodivergence can really improve your life in a lot of ways. I think it feels really intimidating when you first get a diagnosis or you first start to suspect that you might be neurodivergent and you feel like, no, what do I do now? But the more accommodations I have made for myself throughout my life and changes over the last couple of years has just made it so much better. Kailey Waskall: you so much to Gio for coming on this podcast. we have really, really appreciated all of your insights and chatting all things neurodivergence and accessible beauty with you. Giovanna Ferri: Thank you so much for having me. I had so much fun. Ashton McGrady: Gio mentioned at the beginning of this episode, she is now offering one-on-one consults for graphic liners. So if that is something that you are looking tiptoe into and you're interested we're going to link that here for you as well. Kailey Waskall: If this episode felt helpful, consider subscribing, sharing it with your bestie, or leaving a review so we can keep the dream alive. Ashton McGrady: And the lights on! Yay! Kailey Waskall: Bye friends, see you next time.