1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:04,720 Hey guys, welcome to episode 144, Meeple to meeple. 2 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:08,760 Now I'm really excited because today we're starting a series 3 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:12,360 that I've kind of been hinting at for a while now. 2025 has 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:15,120 been a tumultuous year to say the least. 5 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:19,680 And you've heard me talk about the one thing that is so great 6 00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:22,640 is our community. So I'm going to feature a series 7 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,680 where each week we're going to focus on and I'm going to have a 8 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:29,440 conversation with a content creator from across the globe 9 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:34,240 across across all gender identities, sexualities, races 10 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:38,800 and levels of experience today to launch the series. 11 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:44,080 I am so fortunate to have a content creator who has lots of 12 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,280 experience in her own right and there's a force of nature bands, 13 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:49,200 inator bands. Thanks for joining. 14 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:51,400 Hey, thank you so much for having me. 15 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:53,560 I'm so excited. I didn't know this was your very 16 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:55,720 first like episode of this series. 17 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:57,240 That's so cool. It is. 18 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:59,080 It is. It just kind of worked out You 19 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:01,280 scheduled 1st and I'm like sweet. 20 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,680 Well, it is an honor to start the series off and I'm so 21 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:08,720 excited to talk about board games and industry and just 22 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,720 what's coming up in the future. For board games, well, I 23 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:14,920 appreciate you being on. Thank you so much. 24 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,040 And like I said in communications before, it's like 25 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:21,880 I'm really a firm believer in the intimacy of the shared 26 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:25,000 experience at the table. And I'm trying to build 27 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:28,680 community, nurture community and do it any way that I can, right? 28 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,360 And you have a voice. And I think it's great to have 29 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,520 you on and launch this series. And just, you know, we're going 30 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:37,240 to talk about good things for the rest of the year. 31 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:39,960 Nothing but good things. All the victory points. 32 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,440 Yes, yes, I don't. I don't get too many in my 33 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,280 household. We'll take them when we can. 34 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:50,240 We will. We will, yes, absolutely. 35 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:55,160 So let me ask you, I got AI have a couple of brief questions to 36 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:57,760 line up. I wanted to start by talking 37 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:01,640 about how you got into gaming, both gaming and the gaming hobby 38 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:02,960 right? So it's kind of A2 fold. 39 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:07,280 So what was your first board game you ever played as a child? 40 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,080 The first board game I ever played as a child was called 41 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:15,920 Mensch Egdischnicht, and it's a German board game that that is a 42 00:02:15,920 --> 00:02:20,720 little bit like sorry, OK in the American language, right. 43 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,880 So if you've played sorry, you go around the board and you try 44 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:25,960 to make it to your home base and line everything up. 45 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:27,160 Pretty sure that's how that one works. 46 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:28,560 I haven't played sorry in a really long. 47 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:29,480 Time. No, no. 48 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:30,960 But I believe that's how it goes. 49 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,360 OK, so it's like the same game but German. 50 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:36,800 And it's like a really, really old game. 51 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,880 And my great aunt had it in her closet. 52 00:02:39,920 --> 00:02:42,440 And so whenever I'd come visit, she'd pull out the game. 53 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,560 And I actually like most of the time just played by myself. 54 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,600 But that was my very first board game growing up, and it was also 55 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:51,560 red. And that's my favorite color. 56 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,600 So you can guess what favorite meeple color I have. 57 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:56,840 It's going to be red if I can get it. 58 00:02:57,720 --> 00:02:58,840 That was going to be my next question. 59 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:00,080 What was your favorite color to play? 60 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:01,960 Thanks. I didn't know that, but that's 61 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,120 awesome. So what about what about like 62 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,320 the modern gaming hobby? What was the first game that got 63 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:13,040 you into what we call in the in the community the modern hobby? 64 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,040 It is the Castles of Burgundy Really. 65 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:18,320 That was my first hobby board game. 66 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,880 Wow. So when when did you first play 67 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:28,440 Castles of Burgundy? I think it was 2000, 15, okay, 68 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:33,800 maybe I think it was 2015. It could have been 2014, but if 69 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:36,520 it was, it was towards the end of 2014. 70 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,600 Okay, I'm pretty sure lucky for you, this isn't a quiz. 71 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,200 You won't be graded. There are no wrong answers. 72 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:46,160 I would have to really like figure it out because my friend, 73 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:50,760 because I'm pretty sure I wasn't in, I'm pretty sure I wasn't in 74 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,160 school at the time. So that's why I'm like, OK, I 75 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:56,440 need to remember that. And my friend invited me over to 76 00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:00,120 their like duplex and they fed us dinner. 77 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,400 Like a whole bunch of us, they fed us dinner and we played 78 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:04,680 games. And that was the very first game 79 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,120 I'd played. And they're like, this is this 80 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:09,560 is a board game. And I was like, OK, I've never 81 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:11,520 heard of this board game. And they're like, it's Castles 82 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:13,600 of Burgundy. And that's how I played. 83 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:15,720 It was a 2011 edition, the original. 84 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:20,640 That's crazy. So OK, as someone who has been 85 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:25,520 famous for not liking Castles of Burgundy, can you tell me what 86 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,160 was it that you liked about? It, you know, I really liked 87 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,920 that there was different options on the hexes. 88 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:35,200 So there was like a lot of different pictures and growing 89 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,840 up I actually grew up playing a lot of card games so I'm sure 90 00:04:38,840 --> 00:04:41,240 I'm a regular card gamer my entire life. 91 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:45,200 So the fact that there was, you know, cards can be really 92 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:49,160 colorful and, and expressive, but a lot of board games growing 93 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,440 up weren't like that. They were solid colors or they 94 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:54,240 had like one goal and that was it. 95 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:56,120 And it was all like based on the dye. 96 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:00,520 And so here was this board game with different pictures on hexes 97 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:03,240 that did different things depending on what the picture 98 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,680 was. And you didn't just roll dice. 99 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:09,960 You could use things to manipulate the dice to be able 100 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,760 to do what you wanted. And that combination of things 101 00:05:12,840 --> 00:05:15,360 opened up my brain. I had never played a strategic 102 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,920 board game before, and it wasn't based on luck. 103 00:05:18,280 --> 00:05:20,960 And I just, I, I was really blown away. 104 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,520 And I was so excited that there was a game out there that that, 105 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:27,800 you know, piqued my interest, right, But didn't have a 106 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,160 homework deadline or wasn't a test. 107 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,040 So it was actually fun. Right. 108 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:36,240 So it's great because that game has gotten so much longevity. 109 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,800 And do you have the big fancy? I do. 110 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,040 It's right behind me. It's right there. 111 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:45,640 Look at that. I will admit it's it's quite 112 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,040 beautiful. I mean, it's a it's a pretty 113 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,080 game, but I'm just I'm not sold. I'm not that's. 114 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:54,000 OK, I have. I have a really good friend and 115 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:55,480 he doesn't like Castle Burgundy either. 116 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,040 I'm like, that's fine. The the problem is that my wife 117 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:02,440 loves this game and I just hated it, She says. 118 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:04,360 It's because I lost this game all the time. 119 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:06,920 And I mean, I don't think I'm that petty. 120 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,600 Well, losing a game over and over, whether you're petty or 121 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,840 not, it does decrease like a love for a game. 122 00:06:14,840 --> 00:06:18,120 I, I have felt the same way about many games and different 123 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:20,600 types of mechanics and everything I just avoid because 124 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:22,680 I never win them and it's just not fun for me. 125 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:26,120 And you know, I'd rather play games that I'm better at than 126 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:28,640 games that I absolutely suck at. And I'm supposed to like just 127 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,280 have a smile on my face. Like, OK, like why am I choosing 128 00:06:32,280 --> 00:06:34,960 to do that with my free time? Like play games that you enjoy. 129 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,160 That is fair. That is totally fair. 130 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:41,200 I think, though, as I grew up I used to be obsessed with winning 131 00:06:41,280 --> 00:06:43,720 and I was a terrible winner, right? 132 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,120 I was not be. Terrible winners and terrible. 133 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,880 Losers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was both. 134 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,320 I was both, if I if I'm being honest. 135 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:53,880 And of course, this is back many, many, many years ago. 136 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:57,400 No, it's it's been a long time, but as I've grown up, I've 137 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,320 really gotten into the shared experience at the table. 138 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:02,560 And I just want to I do just want to have fun. 139 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,640 Not to say I don't want to win. I'm not going to purposely throw 140 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:10,080 a game, but as long as I'm having a good time and I guess 141 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,160 as a play tester that happens all the time, right? 142 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:17,240 Is I really enjoyed your game despite my losing, right? 143 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:19,120 Talk with designers about that all the time. 144 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:21,280 It's like you lost the game, but you still loved it so. 145 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,720 That's that's just. Interesting, So how about do you 146 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,040 have a favorite board game mechanic? 147 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:31,320 I have a couple favorite board game mechanics or just I have. 148 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:35,360 How about a right now favorite? Make it a little easier, no? 149 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,920 I don't I I can tell you board game mechanics that I like. 150 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,960 I like. I like worker placement because 151 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,320 my favorite genre board games are Euro strategic and most of 152 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,680 them have worker placement. I like set collection. 153 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:51,600 I'm not the best at set collection though. 154 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:55,760 I like contract fulfilment just because they're usually secret 155 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,000 and it gives me something to work on and I don't, I don't 156 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,280 even, I can't even think of other mechanics right now I 157 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:03,680 guess. That is probably OK. 158 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,360 Do you have a favorite worker placement of all time or a 159 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,200 favorite that you enjoy right now? 160 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:14,680 I really like Rogers of the Ganges, so using the dice to be 161 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:18,560 able to do things and worker placement is basically that 162 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:20,520 game. I really, really love it. 163 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:23,800 That's like one of I think that's my number four favorite 164 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,840 game of all time. Wow, OK, I am ashamed to say I'm 165 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:32,280 and I've not played Rogers yet. Rogers is a game that you should 166 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,000 try to play as soon as possible. There is a downside to that 167 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,200 game, though. The dice are hard to see. 168 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,960 If you can't see colors, you know, if you have, if you're 169 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:45,120 impacted by color blindness, and then then it's going to not be 170 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:47,640 the best game. And I really, really hope that 171 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:51,200 they do a second printing or a reprint of the game with better 172 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:55,480 dice, because even for me, like I have a hard time seeing the 173 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,880 differences between brown and orange yellow. 174 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,480 And sometimes I have a hard time seeing the difference between 175 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:05,520 Blues and blacks. So even for me, like I I'm like, 176 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,440 this could be better. And yeah, yeah, So. 177 00:09:09,680 --> 00:09:14,080 But if you know, if you play in a bright room, then it will be 178 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,480 fine and I think it's still playable. 179 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,520 But I can't speak for everyone. That's good to know. 180 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,680 That is good to know. I've been wanting to for a 181 00:09:22,680 --> 00:09:24,240 really long time. I've been wanting to do an 182 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,320 episode where we talk about that very thing. 183 00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:30,880 Both games that succeed at appealing to players with visual 184 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,600 impairments and games that don't. 185 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:35,840 The problem is that I don't have any visual. 186 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,400 Well, I guess I do have visual impairments with glasses, but I 187 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,560 don't have any color or any sort of types of blindness. 188 00:09:41,560 --> 00:09:45,560 And I want my guest to be someone that's like that's both 189 00:09:45,560 --> 00:09:49,400 a gamer and works with the visually impaired. 190 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,400 You know, cuz I'm not, I'm not an expert, right? 191 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:53,640 Oh, I have someone I I can let you know. 192 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,760 OK, we'll we'll talk about that off offline. 193 00:09:56,760 --> 00:10:00,000 Yeah, that's cool. How about just a general 194 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,640 favorite game right now that you're just it's hitting your 195 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:06,280 table regularly? My favorite game is the Castles 196 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:10,120 of Burgundy. I'm sorry, that's my number one 197 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,400 favorite game of all time. You know, I love consistency in 198 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,600 individuals, so there is no nothing wrong with that. 199 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:18,040 That's amazing. I love it. 200 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:18,920 That's. Awesome. 201 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,440 I don't have. So a lot of people do like 202 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:25,920 favorite board games of 2025 or 2024, you know, top ten, top 203 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,440 100, top 50. I do not do that because a lot 204 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:34,520 of the games that I play now are for work and I don't, I actually 205 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:39,960 don't play a lot of games without a work purpose nowadays. 206 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:42,720 A lot of it is just like, OK, I need to get this game played, 207 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:47,280 you know, so I actually have a top 9 for all time. 208 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:51,680 And that list changes depending on like game #8 or 10 or 209 00:10:51,680 --> 00:10:53,520 whatever. Like some of those might cycle 210 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:57,160 out, but in reality, like they're almost the same every 211 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:58,800 year. And that's why they're my 212 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:01,480 favorite is because they last through time. 213 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,160 Cool. I have so many questions about 214 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,280 that. You know, that whole the balance 215 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:10,160 of work, playing games for work and that I have to get back. 216 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,800 I have to get back to that. We're not there yet, but my God, 217 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:18,600 I have questions. So at what point did this is 218 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:20,480 interesting. I've not asked anyone before, 219 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:25,120 and if I'm honest, I've not really asked this of myself yet. 220 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:31,280 At what point did you make the shift from just being a gamer to 221 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:33,160 actually being a content creator? 222 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:36,960 Like at what point did you identify with that and what was 223 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:41,280 that experience like for you? So are you saying like when I 224 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:45,360 started, when I started playing more games for work versus like 225 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,720 for fun or like when I start working in the industry? 226 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:52,480 Yeah, that's, that is, that's 2. It is two different questions. 227 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,800 So I'm thinking about at what point did you start 228 00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:02,040 intentionally creating content, paid or unpaid, but not just I 229 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:06,000 feel like we all do this, right? So we're all gamers and then we 230 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,480 we start taking pictures and sharing them just because it's 231 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,920 fun And, and, and technically that is content creation, right? 232 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,440 I understand. But there's a there's a moment, 233 00:12:14,560 --> 00:12:16,720 right? There's there's a moment when 234 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:22,360 you start becoming intentional about the content that you're 235 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,160 creating, right? And it becomes something, you 236 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:26,600 know what I'm. Does that make sense? 237 00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:31,920 I think that was in 2018. Yeah. 238 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,920 Maybe. I wanna say what? 239 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:36,640 So what? What was going on? 240 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:40,480 Like at what point did you? So my degree is in public 241 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:45,240 relations and I in public relations, you know, you take a 242 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,680 lot of communication classes and everything like that. 243 00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:51,920 And social media was definitely booming around then. 244 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,720 And they had an Instagram account and I noticed that there 245 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:58,280 wasn't any board game content on Instagram. 246 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:04,480 And so I told my friend who had a lot of board games and I said, 247 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:08,640 you know, we need to start doing this because we, we'd get in 248 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,120 early. And so my focus was like 249 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:14,880 connecting with an audience for a niche and being able to grow a 250 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,400 platform based on being like one of the only people on that 251 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,880 platform. So I started an Instagram 252 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:24,760 account just for board games that night and we picked the 253 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:29,200 name and I started it. And that's how we, that's how it 254 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,920 actually like blew up. It was really, really good. 255 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,880 And it was not bonds inator. It was something else. 256 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:40,800 And then later on when COVID happened, all of us were doing 257 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,000 our own thing. And I was like, I need to start 258 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,560 my my own thing without anyone else. 259 00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:49,280 And so that's when I started Bondsinator and I started 260 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,920 streaming and it had nothing to do with board games because I 261 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:56,240 was playing Animal Crossing. And so then I actually had like 262 00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:01,960 maybe I had maybe like 7 games in my collection in 2020. 263 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,920 Wow, maybe maybe 11, I don't remember. 264 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,360 They all fit in like 1 little Calyx cube. 265 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:13,760 And then as over nine months in 2020, I was saving up all my 266 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:18,240 money for APC and I was able to build my own PC in December of 267 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,560 2020. It was really hard to buy parts 268 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,520 and I had to buy a lot of them during Black Friday. 269 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,120 Learn how to put it together because buying a computer was 270 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:29,680 just ridiculous. It was like very overpriced, but 271 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:31,960 so was each individual part. So I was just trying to figure 272 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,440 out what to do. And then January I started 273 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:36,440 streaming with an actual computer. 274 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:42,120 It was my first PC since 2004, and my community gave me money 275 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:44,480 to buy a camera, which is the one I'm using right now. 276 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,120 Actually, five years later, it's an amazing camera. 277 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:51,560 So I started streaming with a computer and then over time, 278 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:56,200 pretty soon after I got an overhead camera and it was, it 279 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:58,640 was a cheaper one. I've definitely upgraded since 280 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,000 then and I really love the camera that I have right now. 281 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:03,640 And then that's when I started doing more board game stuff. 282 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:07,680 I then got hired by a company and they found me because of 283 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,680 Twitch. I got hired to do management. 284 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:12,920 I guess you're getting the whole story now. 285 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:14,200 I don't. Know I love it. 286 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:18,720 This is what I wanted. So I got hired to manage 5 287 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,840 different board game stores across the US 'cause you know, I 288 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:24,440 do. I was, that was my degree. 289 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:29,360 I can do all that. And so I worked with my friends 290 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:32,920 who was a graphic designer and an artist and then we had the 291 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:36,360 owner above us and then our job was to make sure everything was 292 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,800 running smoothly and take care of all the managers across the 293 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,120 US. And then that company got bought 294 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,560 out, unfortunately. And I got let go by the company 295 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,880 that got that bought them out because I work from home and 296 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,920 they wanted people in stores. So that was really unfortunate. 297 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:59,080 And I went to through a downward spiral of unemployment and debt 298 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,320 and non life fulfillment. And it was really terrible for 299 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:06,720 like a couple years. And I finally, you know, that's 300 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,080 when I really started being like, OK, I now have these 301 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,480 games. I have worked in this industry. 302 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:13,920 I'm still streaming the whole time. 303 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,160 By the way. I'm like streaming Monday to 304 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:17,960 Friday. I streamed like 80 hours a 305 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,520 month. And I'm like, OK, like what am I 306 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:22,480 going to be doing? I don't think I should do full 307 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:24,160 time streaming. It's just not enough money. 308 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:26,400 I you know, I don't know what to do. 309 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,720 Do I just like quit the gaming scene all together and try to 310 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:31,880 get other jobs? It was really hard getting other 311 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:36,640 jobs, so I just got more and more into credit card debt and 312 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:40,800 it was awful and depressing. Then I got hired by another 313 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:45,120 company in the board gaming industry and it relieved my 314 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:51,000 stress for several months. But I got fired and it was a 315 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,320 really terrible firing. It was awful. 316 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,400 I was like in shock. I wasn't expecting it. 317 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:58,520 I felt like I didn't deserve that. 318 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,720 You know, I am a very hard worker and like, I think I'm 319 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,240 still healing from that injury. It did put me on unemployment 320 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,040 for several months, but unemployment in the state of 321 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:09,920 California is actually like really bad. 322 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,319 I didn't, you know, that's when I was like trying to like get 323 00:17:13,319 --> 00:17:16,200 sponsored streams and just trying to like do anything I 324 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:20,440 could to make money without, without just like moving away 325 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,200 from the industry altogether and just getting another office job 326 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,599 because I've worked a lot of, you know, office jobs and all 327 00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:26,599 that. I'm like, well, I could go back 328 00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:28,359 to that. But I've worked retail, you 329 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,440 know, I, I've done pool cleaning, I can do pool 330 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,680 cleaning, I've done yard work. Like I could do basically 331 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,480 anything to, you know, I'm a hard worker, just got to pay my 332 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:42,840 bills at the end of the day. And so my unemployment ran out 333 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,080 like around January 18, 2025, this year. 334 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,760 And that's when I made the leap to officially go full time 335 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,600 freelance. I've had my LLC for a couple 336 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,200 years now that wasn't like anything new. 337 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,680 So I already have my own business and everything, it's 338 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:02,240 just not a profitable business. And at the end of January 2025, 339 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:04,720 this year, I jumped full time into freelance. 340 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,440 And every single month, I've been able to pay my rent on 341 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:13,400 time, I've been able to pay all my bills, and I have slowly 342 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,720 chipped away at my credit card debt that obviously I was, you 343 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,080 know, suffering from for quite a while. 344 00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:22,440 But it is going down. I am still doing it, and I am 345 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,160 still freelance. And if at any moment, I'm like, 346 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:27,480 you know what? I can't pay my rent this month. 347 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:31,440 That is my sign that I either got to change something or I got 348 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,560 to go back to, you know, working an 8 to 5 S. 349 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:41,720 So far, we're already in October and I've been able to make it. 350 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:43,280 I've been able to make it happen. 351 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:45,120 Of course, I want to keep on growing. 352 00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:48,440 I want to make more money. Obviously, I don't want to be in 353 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,800 this position where every single month I'm like, well, if I can't 354 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:53,840 pay rent, guess I gotta go get a job. 355 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:55,440 Like I don't want to live like that. 356 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,000 Right, no, I get it, but. Yeah. 357 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:02,600 But like I've been able to do it so far in January, around 358 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,800 January 18, I don't remember the exact day off the check of next 359 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,640 year will be 1 full year of working in the industry as my 360 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:15,160 own business in the in board. Games wow wow so that's that's 361 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:19,760 both terrifying and way to go at the same time you just took me 362 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:24,040 on a roller coaster ride man I. Saved you from asking questions 363 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,320 about that. You did and I cannot thank you 364 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,600 enough for your honesty. You really that was just eye 365 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,640 opening, which is going to lead to more questions of course. 366 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,960 So it was just so it sounds like you've been, you've been doing 367 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:41,520 this since 2018 is about when you were starting content 368 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:43,360 creating. Yeah, content creating. 369 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:47,040 Not with intention. So my question, and this is the 370 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:49,520 one I wanted to ask you earlier, but I had to table it. 371 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:53,320 So now you're playing board games for your work, right? 372 00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:59,960 How do you maintain your joy in playing board games when it's 373 00:19:59,960 --> 00:20:02,840 like you have to so you don't get to play? 374 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,120 Yeah. No, I only do stuff I want to 375 00:20:06,120 --> 00:20:07,960 do. I never do stuff I don't want to 376 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,520 do because, you know, I think that's the pros of owning your 377 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,440 own business and doing your own stuff is if you really don't 378 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:16,160 like something, just don't do it. 379 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:20,480 Like I, I've never had a problem doing something. 380 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,560 I've actually never run into a board game where I'm like, I 381 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:26,280 hate this so much. I need to walk away. 382 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,680 That's never happened to me. I, I love what I do. 383 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:34,440 I love everyday of it and I love board games, even though I don't 384 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,280 like a lot of board games and a lot of them suck. 385 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:43,320 But it doesn't mean that I'm like I regret what I'm doing 386 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,520 right now, like I've never had that because I don't know, like 387 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:48,320 I, I just like games. I like gaming. 388 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,760 Sure, sure. No, I and I could see that. 389 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:52,880 I guess I'm thinking about. So what I'm thinking about is 390 00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:56,360 what happens when you have someone approaches you designer, 391 00:20:56,360 --> 00:21:00,680 publisher or whatever entity they want you to create content 392 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:05,800 and promote a game and then you get a review copy or whatever 393 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,680 the process is for you and the game is terrible. 394 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,640 How do you how do you how do you navigate those difficulties? 395 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:15,320 Or maybe you don't experience that very. 396 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,800 Long I don't know, I think I just try to find something good 397 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,440 about it and then lock on to that and not focus on anything 398 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,440 else. One thing I am very clear to my 399 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:28,000 audience is I don't do reviews. So you're you're never really I, 400 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,720 I showcase games. So I look at it from a different 401 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,400 perspective. So even though like I might 402 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,600 think a game sucks, for example, like it is unfinished, needs a 403 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,800 ton of work, which honestly hasn't happened to me quite like 404 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,400 recently because I turned down party games, I turned down 405 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:47,360 drinking games. And usually I only work with 406 00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:50,320 people who are about to launch their game on a crowdfunding 407 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,480 platform. So their game is pretty much 408 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,240 done at that point. So you know, I haven't had that 409 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:59,040 problem very much this year. But if there is a game that I 410 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,960 don't necessarily like or I personally would not back, I 411 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,760 just try to focus on something positive about it because just 412 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,440 because a game isn't for me doesn't mean someone else isn't 413 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,920 going to like it. Most of these games do fun 414 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,880 successfully on Kickstarter and they get good reviews from 415 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,440 regular consumers. Not necessarily professional 416 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:19,800 like people in the industry. So, you know, a regular person 417 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,600 walking down the street might love this party game that is 418 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,080 currently still in Barnes and Noble. 419 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,880 And I have no idea why it still exists because it was absolutely 420 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:29,520 horrible. And I told the company they need 421 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,400 to delete this game off the face of the planet. 422 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,880 Like, I don't know how that game, it still exists and it's 423 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:35,440 still there in Barnes and Noble years later. 424 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,200 I'm like, this game is awful. I tell everyone around me, don't 425 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:39,800 buy that game. It's like the worst game ever. 426 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,680 It's still in existence. People are still buying it. 427 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,920 They still like it. So you know, if if I get a game 428 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:53,200 that I really don't like, then I showcase what the game is and I 429 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,560 know other creators who are my really good friends and and they 430 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,520 will e-mail the publisher and be like, we cannot play this game 431 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:04,280 because we would not recommend this game and we only want to we 432 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,080 don't want to trash your game because they're you know, they 433 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,920 also want to be nice. I will say like I did get a game 434 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,320 recently that is not on crowdfunding. 435 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,800 It's already done and it's already being sold and they I 436 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,280 just need more marketing for it. I tried playing it. 437 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:22,600 It was really confusing for me. It it to me, it needed something 438 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:24,480 else. I even gave the rule book to my 439 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,080 friends who don't work in the industry, who they're just, you 440 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,000 know, they love playing board games, right? 441 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,480 And they had a hard time learning it and I had to message 442 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,600 them multiple times being like, Hey, we don't understand 443 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,440 ABCDEFG, you know, like, can you please like basically. 444 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,600 And I hopped on a call. I tried like learning it. 445 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,680 I was like, and I even messaged them and I was like, is anyone 446 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,880 buying this game who has never played it from you? 447 00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:50,600 Like because they go to cons, they teach the game to people 448 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,120 and then I'm sure they make sales that way. 449 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,800 Has anyone bought this game who has never played it from you? 450 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:57,840 And have they been successfully able to play it? 451 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,720 And their answer was yes. And I was like, well, I've been 452 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,240 working in this industry and I can't understand your game. 453 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,320 So that was the one time where I'm like, I I truly cannot make 454 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,400 a rule about this because I don't know how to. 455 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,920 And then and then, you know, and I was like, can I mail it back? 456 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,320 And they're like, yeah, sure. So in that way, they didn't lose 457 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,400 a product. They got that product back. 458 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:21,720 They can use it for conventions or demos or whatever. 459 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,520 I, I didn't charge them, you know, like I, they didn't lose 460 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,280 any money besides the shipping cost for their game. 461 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:32,800 So that was the only time where that was the only time ever in 462 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:37,200 my entire gaming thing where I was like, I am so confused. 463 00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:40,400 Right, OK, you handle that really well, though. 464 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,600 I, I like the idea of you approach the designer privately, 465 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,160 of course. And like, I don't want to trash 466 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,440 your game. I really like that. 467 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,320 I know I'm sure you're aware there's been some recent, I 468 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,960 don't know if it's controversy, but there have been some content 469 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,960 creators talking about there is there is some criticism of 470 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:03,120 content creators who are all like you like every game and you 471 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,200 say this game is great in every game, right? 472 00:25:06,360 --> 00:25:09,520 And every game that you talk about is amazing. 473 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:15,040 Now I will admit that I have vocalized that opinion before as 474 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:16,880 well. It had been a frustration of 475 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,720 mine because I'm like, okay, well, so are there so because 476 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:22,560 there's no, there's no standard, right? 477 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,880 But I think we had a content creator who's like, well, how 478 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,280 about when I say the game is great because it's a great game? 479 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,800 And I'm like, that's a valid point as well because you just 480 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,080 said it. If you're the games you aren't 481 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,800 hearing about are probably the ones that aren't as good. 482 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,360 And those content creators are doing, like you said, 483 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:47,520 communicating privately rather than just trashing it openly, 484 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:49,920 right? Yeah, well, that's the other 485 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,680 thing is like they're recommending games, they're 486 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:57,480 giving reviews, and that's their own business, you know, Agenda 487 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,000 don't even know if I can speak on all that because like, I 488 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,080 don't give reviews. So I just showcase what the game 489 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,400 is. You know, if, yeah, if people 490 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,480 really want to like, know what I think about a game, they should 491 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,240 come to my live stream and ask me while I'm playing it or while 492 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,760 I'm unboxing it. And then I'll be like, yeah, 493 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,360 like, and I'll be pretty honest and the publisher could be in 494 00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:22,680 chat because that's happened quite often. 495 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,080 And, you know, for me, it's entertainment at that point. 496 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,680 It's not like I'm a reviewer. It's like this, this is 497 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,920 entertainment. So like I will actually do I'll 498 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,520 like, I'll, I'll bend the card on stream. 499 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:36,680 I'll be like, yeah, this quality is kind of cheap. 500 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,080 Or my gosh, this, this card quality is really good. 501 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,080 Or this rule book could give you a paper cut. 502 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,200 You need to watch out or this rule book is so nice. 503 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,240 Look at the linen finish. So that's when I'll give like 504 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,920 more opinionated stuff is during my live streams. 505 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,880 Yeah. I, I often times run into the 506 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,040 similar situation because I don't do reviews either, right? 507 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,200 I'm, I'm a podcast, as I told you in communications before, 508 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:01,840 and I'm interested in your story, right? 509 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,920 So when I do have designers on, I mean, yes, I let them talk 510 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,880 about the process of their game, but I also want to hear about 511 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,520 them as individuals because we, we, I think sometimes we lose 512 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:16,520 that we, we see usernames and we see these profiles and we forget 513 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,840 that there's a real human being behind that logo, behind that 514 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:22,720 board game. Yeah. 515 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:24,920 Somebody's got to give them a space. 516 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,120 I don't know. I think it's funny how people 517 00:27:28,120 --> 00:27:31,760 will get all up in arms about you're saying too many positive 518 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,240 things. Like do you want to hear more 519 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,360 negativity in today's day and age, like in this economy? 520 00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:39,320 Like, do you really want to hear? 521 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,080 More. Negative statements like you can 522 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,920 go any other place to hear anything more negative. 523 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,720 Why don't you just like be OK? I don't know, like I think 524 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,920 people that I'm like, OK, like, who cares? 525 00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:55,280 I don't really care. Like I, I will say there's a ton 526 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,360 of content creators who will recommend games that I 527 00:27:58,360 --> 00:28:01,320 absolutely cannot stand. And I'm like, I don't trust your 528 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,360 reviews because you like a completely different style games 529 00:28:04,360 --> 00:28:05,840 than I do. But guess what? 530 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:07,440 I just don't care what they think. 531 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:09,200 If they like a game, that's cool. 532 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,320 Like I'm going to have to make my own opinion and I'm not going 533 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,160 to reviewers for those opinions. I'm just going to go and find 534 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,080 the game and play it, which is also ironic because it's kind of 535 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,440 my job, but. Yeah, it kind of is, yeah. 536 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,720 But that's also me saying like, hey, like take a stance for 537 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:30,840 yourself and you know, like, I don't know, it's OK to watch and 538 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,120 consume this content. But at the end of the day, 539 00:28:33,120 --> 00:28:34,720 you're going to have to form your own opinion. 540 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,720 And if you're trying to make a financial decision, like, Oh my 541 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:42,600 gosh, well, I really depend on this reviewer before I back a 542 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,120 game and drop $200. Well, if you're wholeheartedly 543 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,200 relying on that, then you need to find a how to play video or a 544 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,720 playthrough. And there are playthrough videos 545 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,120 for those types of things. A lot of things will have a lot 546 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:59,240 of campaigns will have Tabletop simulator so you can go on TTS 547 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,600 and play the game yourself. Some of it will be on board game 548 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,800 arena. Or guess what, you could just 549 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:08,080 wait till the game is out and go play it and then figure out if 550 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,360 you want to spend money on it. Like there are ways to get 551 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,240 around that. Yes, yes. 552 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,880 Or if you're in England, while they are not sponsors of this 553 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,560 podcast, there is Rent Shuffle and Roll where you can rent a 554 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,760 game and try it out. Yeah, you can try it out ahead 555 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,040 of time. So yeah, our friend Craig get in 556 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,800 the games, he's got a podcast and they're sponsored and he 557 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,280 talks about it all the time. And I'm so jealous because I 558 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,160 want that here in the US, I want to be able to rent it and you. 559 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,000 Could start it. You have a little collection 560 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,040 behind you right there. Just start. 561 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,600 Writing it out I. But they're my babies. 562 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:45,800 I know I have loaned out games to friends and and I'm like, I 563 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:47,160 guess I'm not doing that anymore. 564 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,840 Yeah, I've learned the hard way. So I'm pretty sure I know the 565 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,080 answer to the Senate, but I'm gonna ask anyway. 566 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:57,400 So what is your favorite platform that you like to create 567 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,440 content? I really like Twitch, it's my 568 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,600 favorite platform right now. My second one would be 569 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,720 Instagram. I am working on YouTube because 570 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,880 my YouTube is very low right now and I mainly guess on other 571 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,800 people's YouTube channels. I don't really, you know, I 572 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,320 don't really focus on my own channel. 573 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,880 Hey, let's go subscribe. That's right. 574 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:20,960 Let's. Come like and subscribe. 575 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,320 So yeah, that's it's it's definitely live streaming on 576 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,640 twitch. I'm gonna be working on dual 577 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:32,320 streaming so or multicasting. So live streaming on both Twitch 578 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,080 and YouTube at the same time? I have to admit, I'm a little 579 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,320 terrified of that. So am I, that's why I haven't 580 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,640 started. Yeah, I've thought about it, but 581 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,440 I don't have enough followers and subscribers yet. 582 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,160 So I'm like. Yeah, yeah, it's, I don't know, 583 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,080 like sometimes you just gotta start and then that's how you'll 584 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:49,880 get more followers and subscribers. 585 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,960 You just gotta start doing it. But who am I to say? 586 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,440 I haven't done it myself. But you're going to soon. 587 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,880 And I'm going to, yeah. You've got, you know, yeah. 588 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,760 So what do you, what do you say to content creators, whether 589 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:04,920 they're just starting out or they've been at it for a long 590 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,800 time, who really seem to focus on the numbers, the number of 591 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,880 followers, the number of subscribers like, you know? 592 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:13,800 All that. What's your take on that? 593 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,440 Yeah. So I really like analytics. 594 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,200 I like looking at all those types of things while you're 595 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,000 creating content, and I'll just take a live stream, for example. 596 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,000 You can actually see how many viewers you get as you're 597 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:26,880 streaming, or you can toggle that off. 598 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,520 I suggest to streamers like turn that off while you're streaming 599 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,280 because it can be really discouraging or can actually 600 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,440 change the way you're presenting yourself depending on the number 601 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:37,640 count. Sure. 602 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,880 And then after stream, look at the numbers, figure out when 603 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,520 your best moments were, and then work on your next stream based 604 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,120 on those facts. And then during that next 605 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:51,240 stream, turn those, you know, goggle that view off, Don't look 606 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:55,240 at what's going on because at the end of the day, it can 607 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,400 really affect someone's mood based on numbers. 608 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,840 And that can be really, really hard on on people. 609 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:04,680 And it can be hard on me too. And it's not a good situation. 610 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,760 So I think people should always work on, you know, making their 611 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:15,800 numbers grow and at and also you need to think about how to make 612 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,800 your content better, right? And that's just part of 613 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,680 business, honestly. Like if you don't ever look at 614 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,440 numbers then your your goal is different than mine. 615 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:27,440 Right, right. Yeah. 616 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,040 I'm, I have had to learn that the hard way. 617 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,120 Data analytics, they're important, but sometimes I get a 618 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,280 little, I get a little distracted, I get a little 619 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,760 discouraged when I don't see the numbers move. 620 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:43,280 Yeah. I also don't know personally how 621 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,120 to set reasonable goals for myself. 622 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,280 Like, you know, OK, so our YouTube channel is going to be a 623 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,960 year old tomorrow and we have 120 subscribers. 624 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,840 Our goal was 100, so we went over that. 625 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:59,120 That's cool. But what should my expectation 626 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,720 be, right? My next goal is 1000 for next 627 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,160 year. Maybe that's too high or maybe 628 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:05,560 that's too low, right? Like. 629 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,440 Yeah, so that's really hard. I will say, like for me, my 630 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,280 goal, so it's it's a learning process. 631 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,000 And I don't have the exact answer for this. 632 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,680 I just have some insight about what you can do to change your 633 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:19,680 mindset but still achieve those numbers. 634 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,720 And that is to change your goal. And it's it's, I'll take money. 635 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:28,320 For example, if your goal is to say I want to have $1000 in my 636 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,640 bank account, that's not a goal. That is a result. 637 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,920 You need to change your goal. Your goal should be I'm going to 638 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:41,120 apply for 10 jobs a day and then once I get that job, I'm going 639 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,160 to work on doing the best that I can. 640 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,520 And maybe you get a promotion during that job or maybe you get 641 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,280 a raise after six months and then the result is you having 642 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,560 $1000 in your bank account. So you need to change that 643 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,320 mindset. So for me, like I'm not twitch 644 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,560 partner and I feel like I deserve Twitch partner. 645 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:00,760 I feel like I should be twitch partner, but I have not met 646 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,280 those qualifications. So instead of me being 647 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,480 discouraged and being like I suck as a person because I'm not 648 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,400 twitch partner and I've never been able to achieve that goal, 649 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:13,679 my goal should have my. My goal is create better content 650 00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:16,320 that's more entertaining for my viewers that I also enjoy 651 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,239 making. Yep, and the result will be 652 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,600 higher viewership which will turn into partner down the line. 653 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,159 So what do you think that we can do podcasters like myself, 654 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,639 content creators like you? I mean, because there's there's 655 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,000 we we say content creator, but there's so many different we 656 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,679 come in all shapes and sizes and forms and everything, right? 657 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,400 Like personally, I don't see myself. 658 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,320 I don't identify as a content creator, right? 659 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,480 I identify as a podcaster, but I am creating content. 660 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:49,000 So OK, Yep, I'm a content creator with a different goal, 661 00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:52,920 right? It's it's about survival, so. 662 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,000 That's true. If you are an artist, it's 663 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,720 really hard to get work unless you create content, which is 664 00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:02,120 unfortunate for a lot of artists because their quality can be 665 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,880 measured by their followers and not their actual talent. 666 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,320 Yeah. So it's really unfortunate that 667 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:12,000 that's just how today works when it comes to us as people in this 668 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:16,600 industry, in this hobby, we need to focus on creating content to 669 00:35:16,720 --> 00:35:19,520 get eyes on what we do. And a lot of that is through 670 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,240 short form content. Yeah. 671 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:26,560 And what you can do is, for example, your snippets of your 672 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,440 podcast and just push those out. They might get really low 673 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,880 viewership. Well, what else can you do to 674 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:33,320 push people towards your podcast? 675 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,640 And that's when you have to get into like, advertising and like 676 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,320 different marketing ideas. And sometimes you have to do 677 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,480 something that isn't a podcast just so people will start going 678 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,520 towards your podcast. And so like, for example, if I 679 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,360 showcase a game on Instagram, that might push people towards 680 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:48,960 my live stream where I'm playing a video game. 681 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,440 I don't know. That's how it works. 682 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,640 So, so this leads to my question, what can we do as 683 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:58,920 content creators in the community to support one another 684 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:05,440 right in such a way that we all get measurable results to your 685 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:09,200 mind? You know a lot of there. 686 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:11,920 I don't know. I don't know how we can all 687 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:16,520 support each other besides just like liking and sharing, and I 688 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:20,600 don't commenting, but I feel like that's just not as organic 689 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:25,960 as people want that to be. We're we're all at the end of 690 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:30,120 the day, we are all just people trying to put food on the table 691 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:34,200 and sometimes a board game on the table, you know, and so I 692 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,320 guess we could all be kind towards each other. 693 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,440 That's that's I feel like that should be given though, just 694 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,680 support each other. Yeah, I stick up for each other 695 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:47,200 and I I always say like just don't cause drama, don't get 696 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,360 into drama. Like the whole I do remember the 697 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,600 whole thing about like people saying that all the reviewers 698 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,120 are only saying good stuff about games and I just remember 699 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,440 looking be like, I really don't care, like I just don't care. 700 00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:04,520 It's just not worth my time. So I don't know, just that's a 701 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,800 great question, but I also think we might already be doing it, 702 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,280 you know, like we are helping each other out. 703 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,920 We're here for each other and a lot of times content creators 704 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,200 will come together to play games that they need to cover. 705 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,240 So hey, I need to get this game. I need to get a reel about this 706 00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:20,760 game. Can you come over and help me 707 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,520 play real quick? Usually for me and what I do is 708 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,600 I'll actually pay people to do that. 709 00:37:26,720 --> 00:37:30,000 So, and I don't do it often because I can't afford it, but 710 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:34,600 there have been times, for example, I will hire my friend 711 00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:37,120 to live stream a game that is sponsored. 712 00:37:37,240 --> 00:37:38,800 So I'm getting paid to play this game. 713 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,560 I'm also paying my friend, no exceptions. 714 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:46,040 And in my contract or the invoice, I make that clear like 715 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:47,560 oh, how many players do you want? 716 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,120 OK, my price will increase because this money is going to 717 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:50,880 them. I see. 718 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:52,600 Yeah. So there's no exceptions and 719 00:37:52,720 --> 00:37:56,560 when they need to play the game beforehand I will actually pay 720 00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,480 them either out of pocket or I'll bill differently, but 721 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:03,160 usually it's just out of pocket. I will pay them per hour to 722 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,200 learn the game and play with me beforehand and sometimes I even 723 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,240 cover their gas depending. That's cool. 724 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,160 I, I've said I, I would love to make a job where I just go 725 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,240 around travelling the world and helping people play their board 726 00:38:15,240 --> 00:38:20,120 game backlogs. Yeah, So we've done, we did an 727 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:24,080 episode, I think it was like 2023, we did an episode about 728 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:28,520 the board game backlog. Not the shelf of shame, right? 729 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:30,560 There's no reason to shame yourself. 730 00:38:31,240 --> 00:38:33,760 We all have busy lives. We call it a board game backlog 731 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,240 and and just dedicate it to that. 732 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:37,440 And I would love to come to your house and just play a game that 733 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,760 you have not yet played because you're so busy or what would. 734 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,120 You have to learn it beforehand. Not always. 735 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,000 Well, I would want you to learn it beforehand so that we don't 736 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:48,240 waste time. Sure. 737 00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:50,200 And I could do that. I'm gonna do that. 738 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:51,360 Yeah, I could. Definitely. 739 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:52,480 Do that. So I'll buy you an airplane 740 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:53,760 ticket. I'm just kidding. 741 00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,880 Well, what you need to do is come out and stay with us for a 742 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,400 few days before like Gen. Con. 743 00:39:01,720 --> 00:39:05,480 That's what it is because we're a three day, we're a three hour 744 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:06,520 drive to Gen. Con. 745 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,200 So you come stay with us for a three or four days and then 746 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:10,880 we'll just, you know, we'll drive you to Gen. 747 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:12,360 Con. I was actually. 748 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:16,360 I did that a couple years ago. I went on a cabin board game 749 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,840 trip with some friends. Yeah, it was outside of Gen. 750 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,200 Con area. I think it was in a different 751 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:22,760 state. It was in a different state. 752 00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,640 And then I stayed at their house and then we all drove the Gen. 753 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,160 Con together. And I really, really loved it. 754 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:31,360 But it made the trip super long. That was the big. 755 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:32,960 Bad. Part it was like Gen. 756 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:39,000 Con is already a long time, you know, gone and and I get I get 757 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:45,640 not homesick necessarily, but I almost get mentally exhausted, 758 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:47,920 sure, because I'm not at home to recharge. 759 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,000 So and it's not a vacation at the end of the day. 760 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,880 It's like a long That's fair. Trip for me, but I am totally 761 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:59,200 open to that, yeah, because I want to learn and play more 762 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:00,320 games so. Right. 763 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:02,760 I mean, that's what we'll. Have to plan that for the 764 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,280 future, a future Jake on year when you're going. 765 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,720 Absolutely, absolutely yes. You were always welcome. 766 00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:12,040 Or if you just wanna come on a weekend in the middle of March, 767 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:13,960 that's okay too. Okay. 768 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,680 So I wanna ask you about the state of the community. 769 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,160 What is what is one thing to your mind that the community 770 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,760 just gets right? That we just do it. 771 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,080 We all do it well, and you're so glad to be a part of it because 772 00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:30,680 we do that. Support each other. 773 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,400 Honestly I think that we're pretty non-toxic. 774 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,640 I'm also part of the video game community, not as big, but I 775 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:42,120 also, I watch and consume a lot of video game content and the 776 00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:43,680 community is completely different over there. 777 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:51,120 So it is really cool to be a part of support in a part of, 778 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,960 you know, just helping each other out and actually caring 779 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,440 about people. That's something that's made me 780 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,760 want to stay in this industry is just the care that people have 781 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,880 towards each other. Yeah, yeah, I always close my 782 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,080 episodes with be kind to one one another. 783 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:07,800 And it's like we're kind to our games. 784 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:11,000 So let's treat each other like we would treat our games on our 785 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:12,520 table, right? Yeah. 786 00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:15,760 So conversely to that, what's one thing you notice about the 787 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:19,600 community as a whole that we need to do better or we have 788 00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,000 room for improvement? A community or the industry? 789 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:25,280 So I'm thinking the community more than anything because I'm 790 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,400 not in the industry per SE, so I don't want to speak towards 791 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,560 that. Community, I would say like we 792 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,200 need to mind our own business more. 793 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:39,720 It's like, Oh my gosh, you know, a lot of people are are really 794 00:41:39,720 --> 00:41:42,880 nosy. And I am calling people out 795 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,920 right now, not gonna lie. Like a lot of people are nosy. 796 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:49,360 A lot of people are like, oh, so and so did this. 797 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:50,640 Oh, I can't believe they did that. 798 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,040 Like, what's gonna happen now? And maybe that's just part of 799 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,960 like, social media, but I feel like when something goes down, 800 00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,720 it spreads like wildfire. Yeah, and. 801 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,840 When it when it comes to other industries, I have been in other 802 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:05,480 industries where it's the same exact thing. 803 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,840 So I'm not saying like that's unique to board game, sure, but 804 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:13,240 it doesn't have to happen. And I'm just like everyone, like 805 00:42:13,240 --> 00:42:16,680 just mind your own business, Just stick to your own lane. 806 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:20,920 Like we can still be, we can still play a game together and 807 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:24,320 then stay away from drama. Like just, I don't know, I, I 808 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,800 just think that some people get really up in arms about stuff 809 00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:32,920 and, and then they get mad if you don't want to also be in 810 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,320 that type of category. And then they get mad at you and 811 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:37,640 then all of a sudden it's your fault. 812 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:42,840 And it's like, all right, that's that's when I'm just gonna go 813 00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:48,120 play solo board games for a bit. Yeah, which I can't do cuz my 814 00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:50,360 listeners know I don't play solo games. 815 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,720 I have a lot of I got a lot of baggage from childhood, so I 816 00:42:53,720 --> 00:42:57,520 don't have that reprieve. That's totally OK. 817 00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,920 So we are a very supportive community, but we need to work 818 00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,280 on our drama. Yeah, or just like binding your 819 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,880 own business and respecting other people's space. 820 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:10,800 Like I, I, as someone who live streams a lot, you know, the 821 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:15,760 amount of the amount of people that have been trying to get my 822 00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:19,440 private information about my life is definitely crossing the 823 00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,480 line and honestly creepy. And I don't like it. 824 00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:27,080 You know, I have my own life to protect and my own personal, my 825 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:28,680 own person. You know, I'm right. 826 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,360 Yeah. So it's like when a, when 827 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,760 someone tries to do stuff that invades my personal space 828 00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:38,080 because that's their way of becoming closer to me. 829 00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:41,640 That's not OK. And, and they need to back off. 830 00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,360 And it's happened a lot. And maybe I sound like very 831 00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,240 harsh and cold while saying this. 832 00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:51,040 Well, it happens quite often and maybe it happens more with women 833 00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,440 in the industry, but it's not OK. 834 00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,640 And I think there there needs to be more privacy and more 835 00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,200 boundaries. And that involves drama. 836 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:01,560 But it's not only drama. It's just like, hey, like, 837 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,960 respect each other's space. And you know, if they ask 838 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,960 something as a general, that doesn't mean that you are an 839 00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:09,920 exception. That's not how that works. 840 00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,360 Right. It is unfortunate in a sad state 841 00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:16,640 of affairs that systemic sexism is something that we have to 842 00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,760 deal with in combat daily. As someone who believes that we 843 00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:22,720 are all sinful and fallen creatures, this is just a 844 00:44:22,720 --> 00:44:25,080 result. And we're not all perfect, which 845 00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,680 is why we have to be supportive. We've got to manage our drama 846 00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:29,960 and be kind to one another, right? 847 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:30,360 Like. Yeah. 848 00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:33,840 It's just, it's not worth it, you know, be kind to each other. 849 00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,120 Yeah. Guys are you guys are so tired 850 00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:41,400 of hearing me say it, But Cicero said all of the humanities are 851 00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:44,000 inherently linked as if by a common bond. 852 00:44:44,240 --> 00:44:46,440 So everything we're talking about is connected. 853 00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:48,000 That's. Good. 854 00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:50,400 See, that was my first time hearing that from you, so yeah. 855 00:44:50,720 --> 00:44:54,240 Well, good, I can tell you my regular listeners hear me quote 856 00:44:54,240 --> 00:44:57,360 Cicero all the time. That's cool. 857 00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:00,800 Yeah. So, so, yeah, thank you for 858 00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,360 that. So what, what do you see from 859 00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,640 where you're sitting, the future of the industry and our 860 00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:08,560 community, say the next five years? 861 00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:10,800 And I realize that's, I realize, I realize. 862 00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:12,080 So it doesn't have to be 5 years. 863 00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:14,240 I realize that's a big ask because we're in the middle of 864 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:16,640 tariffs, taxes and trade wars and everything else. 865 00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:20,640 I get that. But say we survive all of that, 866 00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:24,000 whatever it looks like, but where do you, where do you see 867 00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,240 our industry right there? I mean, there's tremendous 868 00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:29,320 growth, but there's also things we've got to be careful of. 869 00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,160 I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on the future of 870 00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,920 our industry. You know, I that's a great 871 00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:39,960 question and I feel like you're my therapist because I have a 872 00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:42,320 really hard time about thinking about the future. 873 00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:44,480 I'm more of like a present person. 874 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,680 The only thing I think about my future is I'm stressing out 875 00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:52,400 about my Roth I or that's the only thing I'm worried about in 876 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:53,400 the future. Right now. 877 00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,920 It's like my Roth IRA. I got a will, so I have a will 878 00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:59,640 and I have a Roth IRA. I have a four O 1 paid for my 879 00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:01,720 former jobs and that's like about it. 880 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,640 So anything about like the board game industry in the future, I'm 881 00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:07,560 like, let's just hope I can fill my Roth IRA at the end of the 882 00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:10,080 day. Like it's been rough. 883 00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,920 Like, I don't know, I don't know, like, I think, I think 884 00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,520 board games are growing and I think it's just going to keep on 885 00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,440 growing. And, and we're getting a lot of 886 00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:23,480 a lot of like non hobby board gamers who are all of a sudden 887 00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:27,280 in the hobby. And, and it's very strange to 888 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,880 like be talking to someone and they list off like a bunch of 889 00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,480 hobby games that are now just like commonplace. 890 00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:34,640 And it's like, I'm not used to hearing that. 891 00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,320 You know, when I, when I first played Castles of Burgundy, I 892 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:40,680 was so shocked that there was pictures on tiles that did 893 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:42,400 different things. I couldn't believe it. 894 00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:47,280 And now it's just like normal. And so like that, that has 895 00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:49,320 changed in a short amount of time. 896 00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:54,160 So I think a lot of board gaming is going digital. 897 00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:58,000 You know, Asthma Day bought board game arena World Series of 898 00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,160 Board gaming is now partnering with BGA. 899 00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:04,720 There's a lot of implementations of, of like Dune Imperium on 900 00:47:04,720 --> 00:47:07,760 Steam and you know, Calgo and Wingspan on Steam. 901 00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:11,680 So you have, you also have like TTRPGS that are also digital, 902 00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:15,800 like Gloomhaven and like, well, not to DRPG, but you know, like 903 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:19,960 all these integrations of digital with analog. 904 00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:24,400 And so I think that's kind of where the future might head 905 00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:29,280 towards or just grow in along with non hobby board gamers 906 00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:31,480 making it just like a normal thing. 907 00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:34,000 The fact that there's so many games that Barnes and Noble, 908 00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:37,960 Target and Walmart and, and it's very, very strange for me to 909 00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,120 hear like everyone talking about board games. 910 00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:44,040 That is that is very different for me. 911 00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:47,960 However, just like it was back in 2018 or what not, when I go, 912 00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,520 hey, there's no board gaming accounts on Instagram. 913 00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:52,640 I'm going to start 1 so I can get in early. 914 00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:56,560 I'm hoping that because I am where I am today, maybe that 915 00:47:56,560 --> 00:48:02,280 could help me in the future when it's so big and I'm like almost 916 00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:04,480 like old money, you know, like I've been there. 917 00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:08,400 I've been there for so long that it makes sense that I only grow 918 00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,960 as a content creator. And I say that not being 919 00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,640 monetized on YouTube. Not a twitch partner. 920 00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:17,520 I don't have 10K on Instagram. I hate TikTok. 921 00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:21,480 Yeah, yeah, no, I feel that. But I hope all those things for 922 00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:23,960 you as well. I want bonds to become old 923 00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:27,640 money. Yeah, that's the goal. 924 00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:31,080 Old money for my Roth RA. That's that is fantastic. 925 00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:36,240 So this is episode 144. In episode 135 S 9 weeks ago I 926 00:48:36,240 --> 00:48:39,760 interviewed Pete Fenland, the CEO of Catan Studio. 927 00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:43,360 And aside from him giving a great memorial of Klaus Toiber 928 00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:47,440 because he knew him personally for years he talked about and I 929 00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:51,280 had some followers really post on their social media about 930 00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:53,320 this, which was great because I didn't ask him to do it. 931 00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:58,360 He talked about his goal 30 years ago when he approached 932 00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:02,280 Klaus to bring Katan in English to the United States and his 933 00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:07,240 goal today as he's approaching his retirement from Katan studio 934 00:49:07,240 --> 00:49:10,120 this year. He wanted Katan to supplant 935 00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:12,760 Monopoly in the vernacular, right? 936 00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:17,080 So when you would go outside of the hobby, because you were 937 00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:20,920 talking about how non hobby gamers and you're hearing about 938 00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:23,520 they're all playing games now, they talk about Katan. 939 00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,840 So when you say I play board games do you mean like Katan 940 00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:30,960 instead of do you mean monopoly? Oh yeah, that's a good one. 941 00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:32,680 I never thought about that. You're right. 942 00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:38,280 That has been their goal since 1997, when Katan came to the 943 00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:41,120 United States in England. Wow, well, good for them. 944 00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:41,880 That's super. Cool. 945 00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:43,720 Yeah. And I think that I think that 946 00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:47,760 within the hobby, I think it's starting to trend outside of the 947 00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:49,400 hobby. People are becoming more aware 948 00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:51,600 of Katan, which then they're becoming aware of the hobby, 949 00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:55,520 which is great. So, yeah, good things for the 950 00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:58,760 community and the hobby going forward, you know? 951 00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,160 Well, Bonds, thank you so much for joining me. 952 00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,560 It has been a true delight. Thanks for helping me launch 953 00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:06,440 this series. You are no stranger to content 954 00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:09,800 creation and everyone, everyone knows you, loves you and follows 955 00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:11,840 you. So that's that is fantastic. 956 00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,960 It's been a lot of fun and I hope that, you know, the 957 00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:18,560 listeners are able to take away something to help them in their 958 00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:21,240 own life and then their own bargaining journey. 959 00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:25,800 You know, people I, I did mention like, hey, don't cross 960 00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:29,760 boundaries, but I'm also live streaming Monday to Friday. 961 00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,400 So if you come in the chat and you have a question for me, 962 00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:35,920 that's totally fine. You know, it's, it's fine to 963 00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:38,600 talk to me and ask me questions about stuff. 964 00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:42,520 So if anyone, you know, needs advice or whatnot, just let me 965 00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:44,960 know. Just, you know, reach out and 966 00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:48,640 that's, that's OK to do. So if anyone does want to ask 967 00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:51,560 you anything, where can they find you on all the things? 968 00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:55,320 So I've had I've had a problem responding to all the DMS right 969 00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:57,120 now. I've been the little behind. 970 00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:00,600 So honestly the best way to just talk to me is while I'm live 971 00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:04,720 streaming because I'm there and like I have no excuses like I 972 00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:06,440 have to reply. I'm right there. 973 00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:08,200 But that's honestly the best way. 974 00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:12,400 But I am I'm on social as like it's under Bonsonator, just like 975 00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:14,480 it's the same username everywhere. 976 00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,640 Instagram is probably my most active. 977 00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:24,280 I'm on threads and YouTube and TikTok and I think that's mainly 978 00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:25,960 it. And then of course Twitch 979 00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:27,240 Discord. I mean I have a. 980 00:51:27,240 --> 00:51:30,240 Discord through Friday right? You were on Twitch Monday 981 00:51:30,240 --> 00:51:33,120 through Friday. If I'm there, if I, if I'm home. 982 00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:35,000 Perfect. Well, guys, there. 983 00:51:35,120 --> 00:51:36,120 There you go. Bonds. 984 00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:37,720 Thank you so much. Thank you. 985 00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:39,920 It has been a real pleasure. Thank you. 986 00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:42,080 I hope it didn't fanboy too much. 987 00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:47,720 It's been probably talking. I was so nervous to talk to you 988 00:51:47,720 --> 00:51:49,520 because I was like, Oh my God, this is great. 989 00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:52,760 Oh, whatever, you were great. You talked to the Catan dude? 990 00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:59,000 I, I know, but still, Yeah, what can I say, kid at heart. 991 00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,120 Well, guys, thank you so much for listening. 992 00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:03,920 We're going to continue this series all the way through the 993 00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:05,400 end of the year. It's going to be nothing but 994 00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,800 positive messages, content creators sharing their stories. 995 00:52:09,240 --> 00:52:13,560 And as always, be kind to each other and let's play more games.