Hey guys, welcome to episode 144, Meeple to meeple.
Now I'm really excited because today we're starting a series
that I've kind of been hinting at for a while now. 2025 has
been a tumultuous year to say the least.
And you've heard me talk about the one thing that is so great
is our community. So I'm going to feature a series
where each week we're going to focus on and I'm going to have a
conversation with a content creator from across the globe
across across all gender identities, sexualities, races
and levels of experience today to launch the series.
I am so fortunate to have a content creator who has lots of
experience in her own right and there's a force of nature bands,
inator bands. Thanks for joining.
Hey, thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited. I didn't know this was your very
first like episode of this series.
That's so cool. It is.
It just kind of worked out You
scheduled 1st and I'm like sweet.
Well, it is an honor to start the series off and I'm so
excited to talk about board games and industry and just
what's coming up in the future. For board games, well, I
appreciate you being on. Thank you so much.
And like I said in communications before, it's like
I'm really a firm believer in the intimacy of the shared
experience at the table. And I'm trying to build
community, nurture community and do it any way that I can, right?
And you have a voice. And I think it's great to have
you on and launch this series. And just, you know, we're going
to talk about good things for the rest of the year.
Nothing but good things. All the victory points.
Yes, yes, I don't. I don't get too many in my
household. We'll take them when we can.
We will. We will, yes, absolutely.
So let me ask you, I got AI have a couple of brief questions to
line up. I wanted to start by talking
about how you got into gaming, both gaming and the gaming hobby
right? So it's kind of A2 fold.
So what was your first board game you ever played as a child?
The first board game I ever played as a child was called
Mensch Egdischnicht, and it's a German board game that that is a
little bit like sorry, OK in the American language, right.
So if you've played sorry, you go around the board and you try
to make it to your home base and line everything up.
Pretty sure that's how that one works.
I haven't played sorry in a really long.
Time. No, no.
But I believe that's how it goes.
OK, so it's like the same game but German.
And it's like a really, really old game.
And my great aunt had it in her closet.
And so whenever I'd come visit, she'd pull out the game.
And I actually like most of the time just played by myself.
But that was my very first board game growing up, and it was also
red. And that's my favorite color.
So you can guess what favorite meeple color I have.
It's going to be red if I can get it.
That was going to be my next question.
What was your favorite color to play?
Thanks. I didn't know that, but that's
awesome. So what about what about like
the modern gaming hobby? What was the first game that got
you into what we call in the in the community the modern hobby?
It is the Castles of Burgundy Really.
That was my first hobby board game.
Wow. So when when did you first play
Castles of Burgundy? I think it was 2000, 15, okay,
maybe I think it was 2015. It could have been 2014, but if
it was, it was towards the end of 2014.
Okay, I'm pretty sure lucky for you, this isn't a quiz.
You won't be graded. There are no wrong answers.
I would have to really like figure it out because my friend,
because I'm pretty sure I wasn't in, I'm pretty sure I wasn't in
school at the time. So that's why I'm like, OK, I
need to remember that. And my friend invited me over to
their like duplex and they fed us dinner.
Like a whole bunch of us, they fed us dinner and we played
games. And that was the very first game
I'd played. And they're like, this is this
is a board game. And I was like, OK, I've never
heard of this board game. And they're like, it's Castles
of Burgundy. And that's how I played.
It was a 2011 edition, the original.
That's crazy. So OK, as someone who has been
famous for not liking Castles of Burgundy, can you tell me what
was it that you liked about? It, you know, I really liked
that there was different options on the hexes.
So there was like a lot of different pictures and growing
up I actually grew up playing a lot of card games so I'm sure
I'm a regular card gamer my entire life.
So the fact that there was, you know, cards can be really
colorful and, and expressive, but a lot of board games growing
up weren't like that. They were solid colors or they
had like one goal and that was it.
And it was all like based on the dye.
And so here was this board game with different pictures on hexes
that did different things depending on what the picture
was. And you didn't just roll dice.
You could use things to manipulate the dice to be able
to do what you wanted. And that combination of things
opened up my brain. I had never played a strategic
board game before, and it wasn't based on luck.
And I just, I, I was really blown away.
And I was so excited that there was a game out there that that,
you know, piqued my interest, right, But didn't have a
homework deadline or wasn't a test.
So it was actually fun. Right.
So it's great because that game has gotten so much longevity.
And do you have the big fancy? I do.
It's right behind me. It's right there.
Look at that. I will admit it's it's quite
beautiful. I mean, it's a it's a pretty
game, but I'm just I'm not sold. I'm not that's.
OK, I have. I have a really good friend and
he doesn't like Castle Burgundy either.
I'm like, that's fine. The the problem is that my wife
loves this game and I just hated it, She says.
It's because I lost this game all the time.
And I mean, I don't think I'm that petty.
Well, losing a game over and over, whether you're petty or
not, it does decrease like a love for a game.
I, I have felt the same way about many games and different
types of mechanics and everything I just avoid because
I never win them and it's just not fun for me.
And you know, I'd rather play games that I'm better at than
games that I absolutely suck at. And I'm supposed to like just
have a smile on my face. Like, OK, like why am I choosing
to do that with my free time? Like play games that you enjoy.
That is fair. That is totally fair.
I think, though, as I grew up I used to be obsessed with winning
and I was a terrible winner, right?
I was not be. Terrible winners and terrible.
Losers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was both.
I was both, if I if I'm being honest.
And of course, this is back many, many, many years ago.
No, it's it's been a long time, but as I've grown up, I've
really gotten into the shared experience at the table.
And I just want to I do just want to have fun.
Not to say I don't want to win. I'm not going to purposely throw
a game, but as long as I'm having a good time and I guess
as a play tester that happens all the time, right?
Is I really enjoyed your game despite my losing, right?
Talk with designers about that all the time.
It's like you lost the game, but you still loved it so.
That's that's just. Interesting, So how about do you
have a favorite board game mechanic?
I have a couple favorite board game mechanics or just I have.
How about a right now favorite? Make it a little easier, no?
I don't I I can tell you board game mechanics that I like.
I like. I like worker placement because
my favorite genre board games are Euro strategic and most of
them have worker placement. I like set collection.
I'm not the best at set collection though.
I like contract fulfilment just because they're usually secret
and it gives me something to work on and I don't, I don't
even, I can't even think of other mechanics right now I
guess. That is probably OK.
Do you have a favorite worker placement of all time or a
favorite that you enjoy right now?
I really like Rogers of the Ganges, so using the dice to be
able to do things and worker placement is basically that
game. I really, really love it.
That's like one of I think that's my number four favorite
game of all time. Wow, OK, I am ashamed to say I'm
and I've not played Rogers yet. Rogers is a game that you should
try to play as soon as possible. There is a downside to that
game, though. The dice are hard to see.
If you can't see colors, you know, if you have, if you're
impacted by color blindness, and then then it's going to not be
the best game. And I really, really hope that
they do a second printing or a reprint of the game with better
dice, because even for me, like I have a hard time seeing the
differences between brown and orange yellow.
And sometimes I have a hard time seeing the difference between
Blues and blacks. So even for me, like I I'm like,
this could be better. And yeah, yeah, So.
But if you know, if you play in a bright room, then it will be
fine and I think it's still playable.
But I can't speak for everyone. That's good to know.
That is good to know. I've been wanting to for a
really long time. I've been wanting to do an
episode where we talk about that very thing.
Both games that succeed at appealing to players with visual
impairments and games that don't.
The problem is that I don't have any visual.
Well, I guess I do have visual impairments with glasses, but I
don't have any color or any sort of types of blindness.
And I want my guest to be someone that's like that's both
a gamer and works with the visually impaired.
You know, cuz I'm not, I'm not an expert, right?
Oh, I have someone I I can let you know.
OK, we'll we'll talk about that off offline.
Yeah, that's cool. How about just a general
favorite game right now that you're just it's hitting your
table regularly? My favorite game is the Castles
of Burgundy. I'm sorry, that's my number one
favorite game of all time. You know, I love consistency in
individuals, so there is no nothing wrong with that.
That's amazing. I love it.
That's. Awesome.
I don't have. So a lot of people do like
favorite board games of 2025 or 2024, you know, top ten, top
100, top 50. I do not do that because a lot
of the games that I play now are for work and I don't, I actually
don't play a lot of games without a work purpose nowadays.
A lot of it is just like, OK, I need to get this game played,
you know, so I actually have a top 9 for all time.
And that list changes depending on like game #8 or 10 or
whatever. Like some of those might cycle
out, but in reality, like they're almost the same every
year. And that's why they're my
favorite is because they last through time.
Cool. I have so many questions about
that. You know, that whole the balance
of work, playing games for work and that I have to get back.
I have to get back to that. We're not there yet, but my God,
I have questions. So at what point did this is
interesting. I've not asked anyone before,
and if I'm honest, I've not really asked this of myself yet.
At what point did you make the shift from just being a gamer to
actually being a content creator?
Like at what point did you identify with that and what was
that experience like for you? So are you saying like when I
started, when I started playing more games for work versus like
for fun or like when I start working in the industry?
Yeah, that's, that is, that's 2. It is two different questions.
So I'm thinking about at what point did you start
intentionally creating content, paid or unpaid, but not just I
feel like we all do this, right? So we're all gamers and then we
we start taking pictures and sharing them just because it's
fun And, and, and technically that is content creation, right?
I understand. But there's a there's a moment,
right? There's there's a moment when
you start becoming intentional about the content that you're
creating, right? And it becomes something, you
know what I'm. Does that make sense?
I think that was in 2018. Yeah.
Maybe. I wanna say what?
So what? What was going on?
Like at what point did you? So my degree is in public
relations and I in public relations, you know, you take a
lot of communication classes and everything like that.
And social media was definitely booming around then.
And they had an Instagram account and I noticed that there
wasn't any board game content on Instagram.
And so I told my friend who had a lot of board games and I said,
you know, we need to start doing this because we, we'd get in
early. And so my focus was like
connecting with an audience for a niche and being able to grow a
platform based on being like one of the only people on that
platform. So I started an Instagram
account just for board games that night and we picked the
name and I started it. And that's how we, that's how it
actually like blew up. It was really, really good.
And it was not bonds inator. It was something else.
And then later on when COVID happened, all of us were doing
our own thing. And I was like, I need to start
my my own thing without anyone else.
And so that's when I started Bondsinator and I started
streaming and it had nothing to do with board games because I
was playing Animal Crossing. And so then I actually had like
maybe I had maybe like 7 games in my collection in 2020.
Wow, maybe maybe 11, I don't remember.
They all fit in like 1 little Calyx cube.
And then as over nine months in 2020, I was saving up all my
money for APC and I was able to build my own PC in December of
2020. It was really hard to buy parts
and I had to buy a lot of them during Black Friday.
Learn how to put it together because buying a computer was
just ridiculous. It was like very overpriced, but
so was each individual part. So I was just trying to figure
out what to do. And then January I started
streaming with an actual computer.
It was my first PC since 2004, and my community gave me money
to buy a camera, which is the one I'm using right now.
Actually, five years later, it's an amazing camera.
So I started streaming with a computer and then over time,
pretty soon after I got an overhead camera and it was, it
was a cheaper one. I've definitely upgraded since
then and I really love the camera that I have right now.
And then that's when I started doing more board game stuff.
I then got hired by a company and they found me because of
Twitch. I got hired to do management.
I guess you're getting the whole story now.
I don't. Know I love it.
This is what I wanted. So I got hired to manage 5
different board game stores across the US 'cause you know, I
do. I was, that was my degree.
I can do all that. And so I worked with my friends
who was a graphic designer and an artist and then we had the
owner above us and then our job was to make sure everything was
running smoothly and take care of all the managers across the
US. And then that company got bought
out, unfortunately. And I got let go by the company
that got that bought them out because I work from home and
they wanted people in stores. So that was really unfortunate.
And I went to through a downward spiral of unemployment and debt
and non life fulfillment. And it was really terrible for
like a couple years. And I finally, you know, that's
when I really started being like, OK, I now have these
games. I have worked in this industry.
I'm still streaming the whole time.
By the way. I'm like streaming Monday to
Friday. I streamed like 80 hours a
month. And I'm like, OK, like what am I
going to be doing? I don't think I should do full
time streaming. It's just not enough money.
I you know, I don't know what to do.
Do I just like quit the gaming scene all together and try to
get other jobs? It was really hard getting other
jobs, so I just got more and more into credit card debt and
it was awful and depressing. Then I got hired by another
company in the board gaming industry and it relieved my
stress for several months. But I got fired and it was a
really terrible firing. It was awful.
I was like in shock. I wasn't expecting it.
I felt like I didn't deserve that.
You know, I am a very hard worker and like, I think I'm
still healing from that injury. It did put me on unemployment
for several months, but unemployment in the state of
California is actually like really bad.
I didn't, you know, that's when I was like trying to like get
sponsored streams and just trying to like do anything I
could to make money without, without just like moving away
from the industry altogether and just getting another office job
because I've worked a lot of, you know, office jobs and all
that. I'm like, well, I could go back
to that. But I've worked retail, you
know, I, I've done pool cleaning, I can do pool
cleaning, I've done yard work. Like I could do basically
anything to, you know, I'm a hard worker, just got to pay my
bills at the end of the day. And so my unemployment ran out
like around January 18, 2025, this year.
And that's when I made the leap to officially go full time
freelance. I've had my LLC for a couple
years now that wasn't like anything new.
So I already have my own business and everything, it's
just not a profitable business. And at the end of January 2025,
this year, I jumped full time into freelance.
And every single month, I've been able to pay my rent on
time, I've been able to pay all my bills, and I have slowly
chipped away at my credit card debt that obviously I was, you
know, suffering from for quite a while.
But it is going down. I am still doing it, and I am
still freelance. And if at any moment, I'm like,
you know what? I can't pay my rent this month.
That is my sign that I either got to change something or I got
to go back to, you know, working an 8 to 5 S.
So far, we're already in October and I've been able to make it.
I've been able to make it happen.
Of course, I want to keep on growing.
I want to make more money. Obviously, I don't want to be in
this position where every single month I'm like, well, if I can't
pay rent, guess I gotta go get a job.
Like I don't want to live like that.
Right, no, I get it, but. Yeah.
But like I've been able to do it so far in January, around
January 18, I don't remember the exact day off the check of next
year will be 1 full year of working in the industry as my
own business in the in board. Games wow wow so that's that's
both terrifying and way to go at the same time you just took me
on a roller coaster ride man I. Saved you from asking questions
about that. You did and I cannot thank you
enough for your honesty. You really that was just eye
opening, which is going to lead to more questions of course.
So it was just so it sounds like you've been, you've been doing
this since 2018 is about when you were starting content
creating. Yeah, content creating.
Not with intention. So my question, and this is the
one I wanted to ask you earlier, but I had to table it.
So now you're playing board games for your work, right?
How do you maintain your joy in playing board games when it's
like you have to so you don't get to play?
Yeah. No, I only do stuff I want to
do. I never do stuff I don't want to
do because, you know, I think that's the pros of owning your
own business and doing your own stuff is if you really don't
like something, just don't do it.
Like I, I've never had a problem doing something.
I've actually never run into a board game where I'm like, I
hate this so much. I need to walk away.
That's never happened to me. I, I love what I do.
I love everyday of it and I love board games, even though I don't
like a lot of board games and a lot of them suck.
But it doesn't mean that I'm like I regret what I'm doing
right now, like I've never had that because I don't know, like
I, I just like games. I like gaming.
Sure, sure. No, I and I could see that.
I guess I'm thinking about. So what I'm thinking about is
what happens when you have someone approaches you designer,
publisher or whatever entity they want you to create content
and promote a game and then you get a review copy or whatever
the process is for you and the game is terrible.
How do you how do you how do you navigate those difficulties?
Or maybe you don't experience that very.
Long I don't know, I think I just try to find something good
about it and then lock on to that and not focus on anything
else. One thing I am very clear to my
audience is I don't do reviews. So you're you're never really I,
I showcase games. So I look at it from a different
perspective. So even though like I might
think a game sucks, for example, like it is unfinished, needs a
ton of work, which honestly hasn't happened to me quite like
recently because I turned down party games, I turned down
drinking games. And usually I only work with
people who are about to launch their game on a crowdfunding
platform. So their game is pretty much
done at that point. So you know, I haven't had that
problem very much this year. But if there is a game that I
don't necessarily like or I personally would not back, I
just try to focus on something positive about it because just
because a game isn't for me doesn't mean someone else isn't
going to like it. Most of these games do fun
successfully on Kickstarter and they get good reviews from
regular consumers. Not necessarily professional
like people in the industry. So, you know, a regular person
walking down the street might love this party game that is
currently still in Barnes and Noble.
And I have no idea why it still exists because it was absolutely
horrible. And I told the company they need
to delete this game off the face of the planet.
Like, I don't know how that game, it still exists and it's
still there in Barnes and Noble years later.
I'm like, this game is awful. I tell everyone around me, don't
buy that game. It's like the worst game ever.
It's still in existence. People are still buying it.
They still like it. So you know, if if I get a game
that I really don't like, then I showcase what the game is and I
know other creators who are my really good friends and and they
will e-mail the publisher and be like, we cannot play this game
because we would not recommend this game and we only want to we
don't want to trash your game because they're you know, they
also want to be nice. I will say like I did get a game
recently that is not on crowdfunding.
It's already done and it's already being sold and they I
just need more marketing for it. I tried playing it.
It was really confusing for me. It it to me, it needed something
else. I even gave the rule book to my
friends who don't work in the industry, who they're just, you
know, they love playing board games, right?
And they had a hard time learning it and I had to message
them multiple times being like, Hey, we don't understand
ABCDEFG, you know, like, can you please like basically.
And I hopped on a call. I tried like learning it.
I was like, and I even messaged them and I was like, is anyone
buying this game who has never played it from you?
Like because they go to cons, they teach the game to people
and then I'm sure they make sales that way.
Has anyone bought this game who has never played it from you?
And have they been successfully able to play it?
And their answer was yes. And I was like, well, I've been
working in this industry and I can't understand your game.
So that was the one time where I'm like, I I truly cannot make
a rule about this because I don't know how to.
And then and then, you know, and I was like, can I mail it back?
And they're like, yeah, sure. So in that way, they didn't lose
a product. They got that product back.
They can use it for conventions or demos or whatever.
I, I didn't charge them, you know, like I, they didn't lose
any money besides the shipping cost for their game.
So that was the only time where that was the only time ever in
my entire gaming thing where I was like, I am so confused.
Right, OK, you handle that really well, though.
I, I like the idea of you approach the designer privately,
of course. And like, I don't want to trash
your game. I really like that.
I know I'm sure you're aware there's been some recent, I
don't know if it's controversy, but there have been some content
creators talking about there is there is some criticism of
content creators who are all like you like every game and you
say this game is great in every game, right?
And every game that you talk about is amazing.
Now I will admit that I have vocalized that opinion before as
well. It had been a frustration of
mine because I'm like, okay, well, so are there so because
there's no, there's no standard, right?
But I think we had a content creator who's like, well, how
about when I say the game is great because it's a great game?
And I'm like, that's a valid point as well because you just
said it. If you're the games you aren't
hearing about are probably the ones that aren't as good.
And those content creators are doing, like you said,
communicating privately rather than just trashing it openly,
right? Yeah, well, that's the other
thing is like they're recommending games, they're
giving reviews, and that's their own business, you know, Agenda
don't even know if I can speak on all that because like, I
don't give reviews. So I just showcase what the game
is. You know, if, yeah, if people
really want to like, know what I think about a game, they should
come to my live stream and ask me while I'm playing it or while
I'm unboxing it. And then I'll be like, yeah,
like, and I'll be pretty honest and the publisher could be in
chat because that's happened quite often.
And, you know, for me, it's entertainment at that point.
It's not like I'm a reviewer. It's like this, this is
entertainment. So like I will actually do I'll
like, I'll, I'll bend the card on stream.
I'll be like, yeah, this quality is kind of cheap.
Or my gosh, this, this card quality is really good.
Or this rule book could give you a paper cut.
You need to watch out or this rule book is so nice.
Look at the linen finish. So that's when I'll give like
more opinionated stuff is during my live streams.
Yeah. I, I often times run into the
similar situation because I don't do reviews either, right?
I'm, I'm a podcast, as I told you in communications before,
and I'm interested in your story, right?
So when I do have designers on, I mean, yes, I let them talk
about the process of their game, but I also want to hear about
them as individuals because we, we, I think sometimes we lose
that we, we see usernames and we see these profiles and we forget
that there's a real human being behind that logo, behind that
board game. Yeah.
Somebody's got to give them a space.
I don't know. I think it's funny how people
will get all up in arms about you're saying too many positive
things. Like do you want to hear more
negativity in today's day and age, like in this economy?
Like, do you really want to hear?
More. Negative statements like you can
go any other place to hear anything more negative.
Why don't you just like be OK? I don't know, like I think
people that I'm like, OK, like, who cares?
I don't really care. Like I, I will say there's a ton
of content creators who will recommend games that I
absolutely cannot stand. And I'm like, I don't trust your
reviews because you like a completely different style games
than I do. But guess what?
I just don't care what they think.
If they like a game, that's cool.
Like I'm going to have to make my own opinion and I'm not going
to reviewers for those opinions. I'm just going to go and find
the game and play it, which is also ironic because it's kind of
my job, but. Yeah, it kind of is, yeah.
But that's also me saying like, hey, like take a stance for
yourself and you know, like, I don't know, it's OK to watch and
consume this content. But at the end of the day,
you're going to have to form your own opinion.
And if you're trying to make a financial decision, like, Oh my
gosh, well, I really depend on this reviewer before I back a
game and drop $200. Well, if you're wholeheartedly
relying on that, then you need to find a how to play video or a
playthrough. And there are playthrough videos
for those types of things. A lot of things will have a lot
of campaigns will have Tabletop simulator so you can go on TTS
and play the game yourself. Some of it will be on board game
arena. Or guess what, you could just
wait till the game is out and go play it and then figure out if
you want to spend money on it. Like there are ways to get
around that. Yes, yes.
Or if you're in England, while they are not sponsors of this
podcast, there is Rent Shuffle and Roll where you can rent a
game and try it out. Yeah, you can try it out ahead
of time. So yeah, our friend Craig get in
the games, he's got a podcast and they're sponsored and he
talks about it all the time. And I'm so jealous because I
want that here in the US, I want to be able to rent it and you.
Could start it. You have a little collection
behind you right there. Just start.
Writing it out I. But they're my babies.
I know I have loaned out games to friends and and I'm like, I
guess I'm not doing that anymore.
Yeah, I've learned the hard way. So I'm pretty sure I know the
answer to the Senate, but I'm gonna ask anyway.
So what is your favorite platform that you like to create
content? I really like Twitch, it's my
favorite platform right now. My second one would be
Instagram. I am working on YouTube because
my YouTube is very low right now and I mainly guess on other
people's YouTube channels. I don't really, you know, I
don't really focus on my own channel.
Hey, let's go subscribe. That's right.
Let's. Come like and subscribe.
So yeah, that's it's it's definitely live streaming on
twitch. I'm gonna be working on dual
streaming so or multicasting. So live streaming on both Twitch
and YouTube at the same time? I have to admit, I'm a little
terrified of that. So am I, that's why I haven't
started. Yeah, I've thought about it, but
I don't have enough followers and subscribers yet.
So I'm like. Yeah, yeah, it's, I don't know,
like sometimes you just gotta start and then that's how you'll
get more followers and subscribers.
You just gotta start doing it. But who am I to say?
I haven't done it myself. But you're going to soon.
And I'm going to, yeah. You've got, you know, yeah.
So what do you, what do you say to content creators, whether
they're just starting out or they've been at it for a long
time, who really seem to focus on the numbers, the number of
followers, the number of subscribers like, you know?
All that. What's your take on that?
Yeah. So I really like analytics.
I like looking at all those types of things while you're
creating content, and I'll just take a live stream, for example.
You can actually see how many viewers you get as you're
streaming, or you can toggle that off.
I suggest to streamers like turn that off while you're streaming
because it can be really discouraging or can actually
change the way you're presenting yourself depending on the number
count. Sure.
And then after stream, look at the numbers, figure out when
your best moments were, and then work on your next stream based
on those facts. And then during that next
stream, turn those, you know, goggle that view off, Don't look
at what's going on because at the end of the day, it can
really affect someone's mood based on numbers.
And that can be really, really hard on on people.
And it can be hard on me too. And it's not a good situation.
So I think people should always work on, you know, making their
numbers grow and at and also you need to think about how to make
your content better, right? And that's just part of
business, honestly. Like if you don't ever look at
numbers then your your goal is different than mine.
Right, right. Yeah.
I'm, I have had to learn that the hard way.
Data analytics, they're important, but sometimes I get a
little, I get a little distracted, I get a little
discouraged when I don't see the numbers move.
Yeah. I also don't know personally how
to set reasonable goals for myself.
Like, you know, OK, so our YouTube channel is going to be a
year old tomorrow and we have 120 subscribers.
Our goal was 100, so we went over that.
That's cool. But what should my expectation
be, right? My next goal is 1000 for next
year. Maybe that's too high or maybe
that's too low, right? Like.
Yeah, so that's really hard. I will say, like for me, my
goal, so it's it's a learning process.
And I don't have the exact answer for this.
I just have some insight about what you can do to change your
mindset but still achieve those numbers.
And that is to change your goal. And it's it's, I'll take money.
For example, if your goal is to say I want to have $1000 in my
bank account, that's not a goal. That is a result.
You need to change your goal. Your goal should be I'm going to
apply for 10 jobs a day and then once I get that job, I'm going
to work on doing the best that I can.
And maybe you get a promotion during that job or maybe you get
a raise after six months and then the result is you having
$1000 in your bank account. So you need to change that
mindset. So for me, like I'm not twitch
partner and I feel like I deserve Twitch partner.
I feel like I should be twitch partner, but I have not met
those qualifications. So instead of me being
discouraged and being like I suck as a person because I'm not
twitch partner and I've never been able to achieve that goal,
my goal should have my. My goal is create better content
that's more entertaining for my viewers that I also enjoy
making. Yep, and the result will be
higher viewership which will turn into partner down the line.
So what do you think that we can do podcasters like myself,
content creators like you? I mean, because there's there's
we we say content creator, but there's so many different we
come in all shapes and sizes and forms and everything, right?
Like personally, I don't see myself.
I don't identify as a content creator, right?
I identify as a podcaster, but I am creating content.
So OK, Yep, I'm a content creator with a different goal,
right? It's it's about survival, so.
That's true. If you are an artist, it's
really hard to get work unless you create content, which is
unfortunate for a lot of artists because their quality can be
measured by their followers and not their actual talent.
Yeah. So it's really unfortunate that
that's just how today works when it comes to us as people in this
industry, in this hobby, we need to focus on creating content to
get eyes on what we do. And a lot of that is through
short form content. Yeah.
And what you can do is, for example, your snippets of your
podcast and just push those out. They might get really low
viewership. Well, what else can you do to
push people towards your podcast?
And that's when you have to get into like, advertising and like
different marketing ideas. And sometimes you have to do
something that isn't a podcast just so people will start going
towards your podcast. And so like, for example, if I
showcase a game on Instagram, that might push people towards
my live stream where I'm playing a video game.
I don't know. That's how it works.
So, so this leads to my question, what can we do as
content creators in the community to support one another
right in such a way that we all get measurable results to your
mind? You know a lot of there.
I don't know. I don't know how we can all
support each other besides just like liking and sharing, and I
don't commenting, but I feel like that's just not as organic
as people want that to be. We're we're all at the end of
the day, we are all just people trying to put food on the table
and sometimes a board game on the table, you know, and so I
guess we could all be kind towards each other.
That's that's I feel like that should be given though, just
support each other. Yeah, I stick up for each other
and I I always say like just don't cause drama, don't get
into drama. Like the whole I do remember the
whole thing about like people saying that all the reviewers
are only saying good stuff about games and I just remember
looking be like, I really don't care, like I just don't care.
It's just not worth my time. So I don't know, just that's a
great question, but I also think we might already be doing it,
you know, like we are helping each other out.
We're here for each other and a lot of times content creators
will come together to play games that they need to cover.
So hey, I need to get this game. I need to get a reel about this
game. Can you come over and help me
play real quick? Usually for me and what I do is
I'll actually pay people to do that.
So, and I don't do it often because I can't afford it, but
there have been times, for example, I will hire my friend
to live stream a game that is sponsored.
So I'm getting paid to play this game.
I'm also paying my friend, no exceptions.
And in my contract or the invoice, I make that clear like
oh, how many players do you want?
OK, my price will increase because this money is going to
them. I see.
Yeah. So there's no exceptions and
when they need to play the game beforehand I will actually pay
them either out of pocket or I'll bill differently, but
usually it's just out of pocket. I will pay them per hour to
learn the game and play with me beforehand and sometimes I even
cover their gas depending. That's cool.
I, I've said I, I would love to make a job where I just go
around travelling the world and helping people play their board
game backlogs. Yeah, So we've done, we did an
episode, I think it was like 2023, we did an episode about
the board game backlog. Not the shelf of shame, right?
There's no reason to shame yourself.
We all have busy lives. We call it a board game backlog
and and just dedicate it to that.
And I would love to come to your house and just play a game that
you have not yet played because you're so busy or what would.
You have to learn it beforehand. Not always.
Well, I would want you to learn it beforehand so that we don't
waste time. Sure.
And I could do that. I'm gonna do that.
Yeah, I could. Definitely.
Do that. So I'll buy you an airplane
ticket. I'm just kidding.
Well, what you need to do is come out and stay with us for a
few days before like Gen. Con.
That's what it is because we're a three day, we're a three hour
drive to Gen. Con.
So you come stay with us for a three or four days and then
we'll just, you know, we'll drive you to Gen.
Con. I was actually.
I did that a couple years ago. I went on a cabin board game
trip with some friends. Yeah, it was outside of Gen.
Con area. I think it was in a different
state. It was in a different state.
And then I stayed at their house and then we all drove the Gen.
Con together. And I really, really loved it.
But it made the trip super long. That was the big.
Bad. Part it was like Gen.
Con is already a long time, you know, gone and and I get I get
not homesick necessarily, but I almost get mentally exhausted,
sure, because I'm not at home to recharge.
So and it's not a vacation at the end of the day.
It's like a long That's fair. Trip for me, but I am totally
open to that, yeah, because I want to learn and play more
games so. Right.
I mean, that's what we'll. Have to plan that for the
future, a future Jake on year when you're going.
Absolutely, absolutely yes. You were always welcome.
Or if you just wanna come on a weekend in the middle of March,
that's okay too. Okay.
So I wanna ask you about the state of the community.
What is what is one thing to your mind that the community
just gets right? That we just do it.
We all do it well, and you're so glad to be a part of it because
we do that. Support each other.
Honestly I think that we're pretty non-toxic.
I'm also part of the video game community, not as big, but I
also, I watch and consume a lot of video game content and the
community is completely different over there.
So it is really cool to be a part of support in a part of,
you know, just helping each other out and actually caring
about people. That's something that's made me
want to stay in this industry is just the care that people have
towards each other. Yeah, yeah, I always close my
episodes with be kind to one one another.
And it's like we're kind to our games.
So let's treat each other like we would treat our games on our
table, right? Yeah.
So conversely to that, what's one thing you notice about the
community as a whole that we need to do better or we have
room for improvement? A community or the industry?
So I'm thinking the community more than anything because I'm
not in the industry per SE, so I don't want to speak towards
that. Community, I would say like we
need to mind our own business more.
It's like, Oh my gosh, you know, a lot of people are are really
nosy. And I am calling people out
right now, not gonna lie. Like a lot of people are nosy.
A lot of people are like, oh, so and so did this.
Oh, I can't believe they did that.
Like, what's gonna happen now? And maybe that's just part of
like, social media, but I feel like when something goes down,
it spreads like wildfire. Yeah, and.
When it when it comes to other industries, I have been in other
industries where it's the same exact thing.
So I'm not saying like that's unique to board game, sure, but
it doesn't have to happen. And I'm just like everyone, like
just mind your own business, Just stick to your own lane.
Like we can still be, we can still play a game together and
then stay away from drama. Like just, I don't know, I, I
just think that some people get really up in arms about stuff
and, and then they get mad if you don't want to also be in
that type of category. And then they get mad at you and
then all of a sudden it's your fault.
And it's like, all right, that's that's when I'm just gonna go
play solo board games for a bit. Yeah, which I can't do cuz my
listeners know I don't play solo games.
I have a lot of I got a lot of baggage from childhood, so I
don't have that reprieve. That's totally OK.
So we are a very supportive community, but we need to work
on our drama. Yeah, or just like binding your
own business and respecting other people's space.
Like I, I, as someone who live streams a lot, you know, the
amount of the amount of people that have been trying to get my
private information about my life is definitely crossing the
line and honestly creepy. And I don't like it.
You know, I have my own life to protect and my own personal, my
own person. You know, I'm right.
Yeah. So it's like when a, when
someone tries to do stuff that invades my personal space
because that's their way of becoming closer to me.
That's not OK. And, and they need to back off.
And it's happened a lot. And maybe I sound like very
harsh and cold while saying this.
Well, it happens quite often and maybe it happens more with women
in the industry, but it's not OK.
And I think there there needs to be more privacy and more
boundaries. And that involves drama.
But it's not only drama. It's just like, hey, like,
respect each other's space. And you know, if they ask
something as a general, that doesn't mean that you are an
exception. That's not how that works.
Right. It is unfortunate in a sad state
of affairs that systemic sexism is something that we have to
deal with in combat daily. As someone who believes that we
are all sinful and fallen creatures, this is just a
result. And we're not all perfect, which
is why we have to be supportive. We've got to manage our drama
and be kind to one another, right?
Like. Yeah.
It's just, it's not worth it, you know, be kind to each other.
Yeah. Guys are you guys are so tired
of hearing me say it, But Cicero said all of the humanities are
inherently linked as if by a common bond.
So everything we're talking about is connected.
That's. Good.
See, that was my first time hearing that from you, so yeah.
Well, good, I can tell you my regular listeners hear me quote
Cicero all the time. That's cool.
Yeah. So, so, yeah, thank you for
that. So what, what do you see from
where you're sitting, the future of the industry and our
community, say the next five years?
And I realize that's, I realize, I realize.
So it doesn't have to be 5 years.
I realize that's a big ask because we're in the middle of
tariffs, taxes and trade wars and everything else.
I get that. But say we survive all of that,
whatever it looks like, but where do you, where do you see
our industry right there? I mean, there's tremendous
growth, but there's also things we've got to be careful of.
I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on the future of
our industry. You know, I that's a great
question and I feel like you're my therapist because I have a
really hard time about thinking about the future.
I'm more of like a present person.
The only thing I think about my future is I'm stressing out
about my Roth I or that's the only thing I'm worried about in
the future. Right now.
It's like my Roth IRA. I got a will, so I have a will
and I have a Roth IRA. I have a four O 1 paid for my
former jobs and that's like about it.
So anything about like the board game industry in the future, I'm
like, let's just hope I can fill my Roth IRA at the end of the
day. Like it's been rough.
Like, I don't know, I don't know, like, I think, I think
board games are growing and I think it's just going to keep on
growing. And, and we're getting a lot of
a lot of like non hobby board gamers who are all of a sudden
in the hobby. And, and it's very strange to
like be talking to someone and they list off like a bunch of
hobby games that are now just like commonplace.
And it's like, I'm not used to hearing that.
You know, when I, when I first played Castles of Burgundy, I
was so shocked that there was pictures on tiles that did
different things. I couldn't believe it.
And now it's just like normal. And so like that, that has
changed in a short amount of time.
So I think a lot of board gaming is going digital.
You know, Asthma Day bought board game arena World Series of
Board gaming is now partnering with BGA.
There's a lot of implementations of, of like Dune Imperium on
Steam and you know, Calgo and Wingspan on Steam.
So you have, you also have like TTRPGS that are also digital,
like Gloomhaven and like, well, not to DRPG, but you know, like
all these integrations of digital with analog.
And so I think that's kind of where the future might head
towards or just grow in along with non hobby board gamers
making it just like a normal thing.
The fact that there's so many games that Barnes and Noble,
Target and Walmart and, and it's very, very strange for me to
hear like everyone talking about board games.
That is that is very different for me.
However, just like it was back in 2018 or what not, when I go,
hey, there's no board gaming accounts on Instagram.
I'm going to start 1 so I can get in early.
I'm hoping that because I am where I am today, maybe that
could help me in the future when it's so big and I'm like almost
like old money, you know, like I've been there.
I've been there for so long that it makes sense that I only grow
as a content creator. And I say that not being
monetized on YouTube. Not a twitch partner.
I don't have 10K on Instagram. I hate TikTok.
Yeah, yeah, no, I feel that. But I hope all those things for
you as well. I want bonds to become old
money. Yeah, that's the goal.
Old money for my Roth RA. That's that is fantastic.
So this is episode 144. In episode 135 S 9 weeks ago I
interviewed Pete Fenland, the CEO of Catan Studio.
And aside from him giving a great memorial of Klaus Toiber
because he knew him personally for years he talked about and I
had some followers really post on their social media about
this, which was great because I didn't ask him to do it.
He talked about his goal 30 years ago when he approached
Klaus to bring Katan in English to the United States and his
goal today as he's approaching his retirement from Katan studio
this year. He wanted Katan to supplant
Monopoly in the vernacular, right?
So when you would go outside of the hobby, because you were
talking about how non hobby gamers and you're hearing about
they're all playing games now, they talk about Katan.
So when you say I play board games do you mean like Katan
instead of do you mean monopoly? Oh yeah, that's a good one.
I never thought about that. You're right.
That has been their goal since 1997, when Katan came to the
United States in England. Wow, well, good for them.
That's super. Cool.
Yeah. And I think that I think that
within the hobby, I think it's starting to trend outside of the
hobby. People are becoming more aware
of Katan, which then they're becoming aware of the hobby,
which is great. So, yeah, good things for the
community and the hobby going forward, you know?
Well, Bonds, thank you so much for joining me.
It has been a true delight. Thanks for helping me launch
this series. You are no stranger to content
creation and everyone, everyone knows you, loves you and follows
you. So that's that is fantastic.
It's been a lot of fun and I hope that, you know, the
listeners are able to take away something to help them in their
own life and then their own bargaining journey.
You know, people I, I did mention like, hey, don't cross
boundaries, but I'm also live streaming Monday to Friday.
So if you come in the chat and you have a question for me,
that's totally fine. You know, it's, it's fine to
talk to me and ask me questions about stuff.
So if anyone, you know, needs advice or whatnot, just let me
know. Just, you know, reach out and
that's, that's OK to do. So if anyone does want to ask
you anything, where can they find you on all the things?
So I've had I've had a problem responding to all the DMS right
now. I've been the little behind.
So honestly the best way to just talk to me is while I'm live
streaming because I'm there and like I have no excuses like I
have to reply. I'm right there.
But that's honestly the best way.
But I am I'm on social as like it's under Bonsonator, just like
it's the same username everywhere.
Instagram is probably my most active.
I'm on threads and YouTube and TikTok and I think that's mainly
it. And then of course Twitch
Discord. I mean I have a.
Discord through Friday right? You were on Twitch Monday
through Friday. If I'm there, if I, if I'm home.
Perfect. Well, guys, there.
There you go. Bonds.
Thank you so much. Thank you.
It has been a real pleasure. Thank you.
I hope it didn't fanboy too much.
It's been probably talking. I was so nervous to talk to you
because I was like, Oh my God, this is great.
Oh, whatever, you were great. You talked to the Catan dude?
I, I know, but still, Yeah, what can I say, kid at heart.
Well, guys, thank you so much for listening.
We're going to continue this series all the way through the
end of the year. It's going to be nothing but
positive messages, content creators sharing their stories.
And as always, be kind to each other and let's play more games.