1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,840 Welcome to Meeple to Meeple, uniting players around the 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:05,640 world. A 30 minute exploration of PJ 3 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:08,200 and Gareth's four-game experiences from across both 4 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:11,480 sides of the Atlantic. Each episode they share their 5 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:14,440 thoughts and opinions on the World of War games, including 6 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:18,480 their favorite themes, games, hot topics, and much, much more. 7 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:24,800 Welcome friends to Episode 82. Expand Your game. 8 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,200 We're going to talk about board game expansions. 9 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:31,760 As always, I remain PJ. And I am still Gareth. 10 00:00:32,119 --> 00:00:35,200 Hello. Gareth, man, I feel like I 11 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,960 haven't seen you in like weeks. I mean, I guess I haven't seen 12 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,440 you in weeks, but I feel like we haven't spoken in a while. 13 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:45,040 Feels like a long time. But we did just talk about it's. 14 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:46,840 Only a week ago a. Week ago. 15 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:51,760 Yeah, this week's been this. Well, I've been mega busy. 16 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:53,840 I haven't really been chatting. You have. 17 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:58,080 On Instagram. But the madness is well, this 18 00:00:58,080 --> 00:00:59,800 week is intense. But once we get through this 19 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:05,080 week, we've got the Games Expo for a few days to relax. 20 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:08,360 Well, are you really going to relax? 21 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,800 Well, I've got we've got a few people to see, a few games to 22 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:13,840 check it out. We've got some Instagramers to 23 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,560 hang out with. So if you don't get a chance to 24 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:20,320 relax Auk Games Expo, I just want to say I'm sorry right now. 25 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:23,920 And then, yeah, then we've got a family party because. 26 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:27,600 I've told everyone they've got to go and find you and say hello 27 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:31,080 and I think that's. I've got the badges, yeah, I've 28 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:33,720 got about 15 meeble to me with badges, and I found two 29 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:35,280 stickers. Did you? 30 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,440 Yeah, so if anyone wants a badge, come find me. 31 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,520 Yep. On Friday or Thursday or Friday. 32 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:43,920 Or Saturday. Or Friday. 33 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:45,320 Or Saturday morning at breakfast. 34 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:48,200 Breakfast Saturday morning. That is your last chance if 35 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,120 you're at UK Games Expo. Games Expo. 36 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:55,280 That's it, That's it. Saturday breakfast. 37 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,960 Right expansions. Yeah, before that, will you be 38 00:01:59,960 --> 00:02:02,880 wearing a Viking hat or something while you're at the 39 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:04,760 no? What will I be wearing? 40 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,720 Probably my ball game Maple T-shirt, which is what I 41 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:08,840 normally wear. Blue. 42 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:12,720 You be in blue. Blue or black with the Maple on 43 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:14,560 the back. It rhymed like a. 44 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,320 Pocket and you didn't even know it. 45 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:24,880 No, so when we said we'd go to expansions, I was like, I'm not, 46 00:02:24,920 --> 00:02:27,800 oh, I didn't think about this. And the more I thought about it, 47 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:32,000 the more down in deep into my mind of what is an expansion? 48 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:33,840 What's the definition of expansion? 49 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,600 And like looking at some of my games, I think one game I've got 50 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:42,280 65 expansions to which is like zombie side. 51 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,760 And the reason for that is every mini when they did the 52 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:49,560 Kickstarter is an expansion. Yeah, but I don't, I don't think 53 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,480 that's an expansion in my mind. Well. 54 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:59,080 It's just an extra piece, whereas yeah, anyway, we'll, 55 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,720 we'll discuss what's an expansion, What is an expansion? 56 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,920 I think this is an interesting conversation and was one we kind 57 00:03:04,920 --> 00:03:08,200 of touched on. Is like, So what defines an 58 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:12,920 expansion? I feel like an expansion comes 59 00:03:12,920 --> 00:03:18,240 in a box. Not not a sleeve, not an 60 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:23,680 envelope, not a foil packet, but a box at the minimum. 61 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:27,320 Minimum. It has to come in its own box, 62 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:32,360 separate from the core game, and it cannot be played without the 63 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,520 core game. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 64 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,360 I, I said I was looking at things I'd received recently 65 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:43,240 where there was plastic envelopes lying on the side and 66 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:47,040 the amount of Kickstarters or game found or whichever funding 67 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:51,440 channel you might want to use. The game had arrived and it was 68 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,760 like 2 cards or a card or something else. 69 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:59,480 And it's, if it was supposed to be in the game, they should have 70 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,600 put it in the game. You know these stretch goals. 71 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,200 And that's that's a different, that's a different conversation, 72 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,720 but I agree. Yeah, Ball Game Geek, because 73 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:09,120 it's an expansion pack. That's true. 74 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,840 I'm like the amount of games I have where I just don't. 75 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:14,720 Maybe people need to tell me something. 76 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:16,279 An idiot. I just don't throw it in. 77 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:18,880 I leave it in the box. Stop being an idiot. 78 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,680 Just so it's the expansion shouldn't be in the game. 79 00:04:22,840 --> 00:04:24,600 So should. Be in the game to start with. 80 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:29,040 So as an example, I would suggest at the now we're back to 81 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:33,000 minimal, right? So I'm holding up in front of 82 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,640 me. You can't see a Bagareth can. 83 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:40,760 It's a very small box for ISS Vanguard and it's story dice and 84 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:42,520 it even says story dice expansion. 85 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:47,000 So it comes in a box and the content are two dice. 86 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:51,200 It replaces 2 dice from the actual game and but. 87 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,320 What's different? So they do. 88 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,680 They do different things. They do they glitches and just a 89 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:03,120 component replacement it is. So yeah, so you have so this is 90 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,960 this is the danger dye. The danger dye is like an 8 91 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,240 sided dye. Now they've they've made it like 92 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:12,920 a sphere and there's rules, extra rules. 93 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:18,400 So depending on your result before in the base game it was 94 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,560 this would happen. Well, now it's this would happen 95 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:26,360 and one other thing but. Does that, does that fix 96 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,200 something? And do you play with and do you 97 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,280 use? Them it enhance, it enhances 98 00:05:31,280 --> 00:05:34,480 something and I do use them. OK. 99 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:38,600 They're really cool. They're totally unnecessary. 100 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:41,640 Why wasn't it? Why wasn't it in the base game 101 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,440 if it came? Because they because when the 102 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:46,640 base game came out, they hadn't even thought of this. 103 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,400 This was OK, so it's not. It's not getting an extra at the 104 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:51,880 time it came afterwards. It's a true expansion. 105 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:53,720 OK. Yeah, it is a true expansion. 106 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:57,760 So that's the minimum, very, very basic minimum of what? 107 00:05:57,760 --> 00:05:59,440 An expansion. That sounds sound. 108 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:05,320 So my mind is the problem I think that we're running into in 109 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,600 this conversation is that there's, there seems to be, in 110 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:12,920 my opinion, my humble opinion, there's just too many expansions 111 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:17,640 for games. And it's hard to know whether an 112 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:22,240 expansion is worth acquiring and adding to your collection or not 113 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,440 until you get it. And then you're, you know, we, 114 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:27,680 we were talking about what were we talking about? 115 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,760 Scythe. No, what game do you play? 116 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,520 And you only play the bass. What were you talking about? 117 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,200 You open up the box and you Nemesis. 118 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:43,920 Nemesis. A is an expensive game, B the 119 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,480 expensive. The expansions are generally new 120 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,480 minis with a slight rule twist. Right. 121 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:53,280 And then and they're like, Oh no, £30. 122 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,600 And there's so much because the game plays so long, there's so 123 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,640 much replayability in the base game. 124 00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:02,200 Right. That I've gone how am I going to 125 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:06,600 get a get this to table and B am I going to get the table and 126 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:07,960 want to play with the expansions. 127 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:12,200 Now some of this is wise learnings from being a ball game 128 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:13,760 collector. That's. 129 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,600 True. Sure, ten years ago I would have 130 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,560 gone all in and bought everything just because there's 131 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:22,800 this FOMO. I'm just wiser now. 132 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,320 Or less stupid, I. Mean that's true. 133 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:27,640 That is true. We were. 134 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:32,040 But then I look at the games where I talk about expansions 135 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,080 and the ones I play, and we'll cover that in a bit, that I 136 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,760 always put the expansions in the generally older games because 137 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:43,280 they release the game and then two or three, a year, 2-3 years 138 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:47,160 later, oh, it's an expansion and you drive sales of the original 139 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,080 game and you drive sales of the base game. 140 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:54,760 Whereas these days games, certainly crowdfunding games, 141 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,440 come with expansions to boot. Right. 142 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:07,240 So I, I also think that an expansion should expand the game 143 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:13,280 experience experience. So we talked about Ticket to 144 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:17,040 Ride and it's like, you know, you don't really. 145 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:22,320 I mean, all the Ticket to Ride expansions are are just 146 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:30,520 alternative maps with a new rule or feature or twist, right? 147 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:35,840 So, but they expand the game because some are better than 148 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,559 others. Yeah, so I've always, I've, I've 149 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,440 got the base game, I've got Europe because of the 150 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:45,120 collector's edition, but I've never, I've never felt the urge 151 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:49,400 to go, you know, I need another map because ultimately it's the 152 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,920 same game with a slight twist. But I'm happy to be educated. 153 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:54,560 Or maybe there are some maps that are better. 154 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:56,720 I just. There's a lot of them though, 155 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:57,040 isn't? There. 156 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:02,840 No, you're right and it it's true most of them are just maps. 157 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:08,480 However, I would I would argue that the United Kingdom is 158 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,560 really a good like it's. A great place. 159 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,400 No, I'll tell. I'll tell you why. 160 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:15,400 Because of. The tell me why? 161 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:21,600 At the start of the game, all the players are limited to the 162 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:26,160 nation of England. You have to purchase rights to 163 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:30,040 expand to Wales, Ireland and Scotland. 164 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:37,040 So the the board is limited at the very beginning and that is 165 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,760 really cool. And you can only claim routes 166 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:44,600 that are one or two trains long. You have to build technologies 167 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:51,320 to claim three to claim 4 to do ferries and various various 168 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:54,560 other things. It's a really unique experience. 169 00:09:55,440 --> 00:10:01,080 It's probably my favorite map to play for Ticket to Ride, with 170 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,720 one exception. That's the Nordic countries, but 171 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:05,600 that's not a reflection of the expansion. 172 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:08,360 I have a really high win ratio against KD. 173 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,280 That sways the I must play the expansion because I might just, 174 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,360 I might just win. I like, I like it. 175 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:22,240 I need to note that down. But the UK is really the UK is 176 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:24,240 really worth it. And then it's it's double sided. 177 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,840 So the other side is the state of Pennsylvania in the USI mean, 178 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,520 it's cool. It offers a it offers an 179 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:35,400 additional way to score points. And that's kind of, I think 180 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:40,160 that's where expansions really disappoint me is when all they 181 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:45,080 add are more ways to score points. 182 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:50,160 Yeah, yeah, well, some extra tiles or yeah, an extra resource 183 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:53,640 it it just feel lazier. I try to think of expansions 184 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:58,000 these days that that I've I've always added in. 185 00:10:59,680 --> 00:11:03,560 That you always add in. Yeah, or like I got and then 186 00:11:03,560 --> 00:11:06,800 went, yes, we played with expansion when it's so it that 187 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,840 makes it. But then I think, I think going 188 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:14,640 back to how many times we play games, because we don't, we 189 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:18,000 cycle for our games very slowly to you, it's pretty rushing back 190 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,560 to you in a minute, OK, When a game comes back on our table and 191 00:11:21,560 --> 00:11:25,720 it might have expansions, expansions in the box, if I've 192 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:27,880 got to refresh the rules, I'm like, oh, I've got two. 193 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,280 Rule 2. Particularly if people come over 194 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:34,640 and say, can we play X, I'm like, yeah, we're going to play 195 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,440 the base game because they, I can't remember. 196 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:42,000 And they play the base game and then we say, yeah, really good. 197 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:43,760 We should play expansions. But then next time they come 198 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:45,400 over, it's three months later. Yeah. 199 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:48,800 I think Scythe is a good example of that. 200 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:53,360 Yeah, I think the scythe we always knew, always, like we 201 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:55,720 say, 80% end up playing the game. 202 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:58,200 Right. No, I agree, because it's like I 203 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:00,160 got to remember this rule and that rule. 204 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,000 And no, I'm totally with you. That's a good one. 205 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:05,720 And the other one we talked about was Western Legends. 206 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,280 Yeah, that's that's staring at me right now because it's a 207 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:11,520 because it's the big box and I open it. 208 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:14,440 It was worse when it without the big box because when you open 209 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:16,440 that box up, they're in they're in Poly bags. 210 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,560 You just went oh, like what's what? 211 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,040 Even with the storage solution, there's so much game. 212 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:29,520 So much. I think have I, I don't think 213 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:31,920 we've played with all of it. We've definitely played with 214 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:36,280 with the older expansions like the Train, but there's bits I 215 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:37,800 think we've never even got to table. 216 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:40,720 Which? So which is another lesson. 217 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,120 When it hits our table, which is maybe twice a year. 218 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:45,560 Yeah, that's the problem you see. 219 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,960 We always play with everything. Everything. 220 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,000 But we do it because it only hits the table twice a year, 221 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:53,120 right? Yeah. 222 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,360 Yeah, Yeah. Otherwise, otherwise, I think I 223 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:01,120 think we would just play the base game because, you know, but 224 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:02,600 it's like, all right, we're going to spend a day, we're 225 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:04,400 going to play Western Legends, we're going to pull everything 226 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:05,200 out. Same thing. 227 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,200 Yeah. So Scythe and Western Legends, I 228 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,720 think, are two really good examples of games with so much 229 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:15,280 content that it's just easier because you know the core game 230 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,040 so well. What about? 231 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:18,880 What about Wingspan? Oh. 232 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:26,000 So obviously core game, they've got Oceania and European Europe, 233 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:30,240 Europe. And Asia and the nesting box 234 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,680 with the two player cooperative so. 235 00:13:32,680 --> 00:13:36,040 If you exclude the two player cooperative, do you play with 236 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:39,600 all of the cards and the nectar or do you? 237 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,480 So interesting. I always play with the nectar. 238 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:47,360 Always. I don't always. 239 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:49,080 I don't always play with all the cards. 240 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:54,880 Recently we've recently we've reset it back to literally base 241 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:56,000 game. Base game. 242 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:58,920 Only only, but I think because of the Asia, we hadn't played 243 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:00,840 Asia and we thought we'd just start with Asia. 244 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:02,720 And then I was like, maybe we just play base. 245 00:14:03,560 --> 00:14:06,360 And then I then I haven't that. I've just got packs of cards 246 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,680 I've not gone back to because the base game is actually quite 247 00:14:08,680 --> 00:14:15,360 nice and it's known, yeah. Yeah, I think the problem with 248 00:14:15,560 --> 00:14:22,080 Wingspan, it says there's so many cards you're not going to 249 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,680 cycle through. Yeah, all of them. 250 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,800 You've also got shuffle a lot to get it to get it randomized. 251 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,720 Oh my God, a lot. See, I saw Matt. 252 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,440 Base game, Yeah. Yeah, Base game Wingspan. 253 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:36,600 Game. Too many expansions. 254 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:40,400 What was it? I was just thinking of another. 255 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:46,880 Oh, OK, so another game that suffers that problem, but the 256 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,840 expansion is necessary, so flip the script just a little bit. 257 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,480 Yes, Arc Nova. With Marine. 258 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:59,040 Yes. So Arc Nova has way too many 259 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:06,080 cards, just like Wingspan, but Marine Worlds has a mechanic 260 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:07,720 that allows you to cycle through the card. 261 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:08,480 Yeah. It's about the same. 262 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,040 Yeah, I, I think it's a great example where I think we've 263 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,800 we've got Marine in the box mixed up and I think we would 264 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:19,680 always play with it because of that. 265 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,200 You get to get through this, get through the cards and it 266 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,800 doesn't, it's not a massive rule change. 267 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,160 No, really, it's nothing too complicated in there. 268 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,400 Not really. I think that's key. 269 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,920 I mean another one that I mean, I'm sure anyone who knows me off 270 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,080 Instagram will know that I'm a huge fan of Vitti culture. 271 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:40,400 But only if it's only if it's got Tuscany. 272 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,960 Yep, like the base game. The base game I'll teach to new 273 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,880 players if I want somebody to understand some like worker 274 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,880 placement mechanics. But if it's it needs Tuscany, 275 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:52,640 which obviously is. I think it's the essential 276 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:56,000 edition these days. Which is funny because it's the 277 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,320 essential edition. Of. 278 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:02,480 Seeing that Tuscany is essential to play. 279 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,520 Yeah, in the culture, yeah, particularly for the four 280 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:11,000 season, four season board. OK, so there's some people who 281 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:16,760 don't share that opinion about Tuscany, so say more about the 282 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,240 seasons. Like what is it that Tusk What 283 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:21,320 makes Tuscany so essential? I. 284 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:24,120 Can't. I can't meet all the modules but 285 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:26,120 it's. But it's the seasons when. 286 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,160 I say I play, yeah. When I say I play Viticulture, I 287 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:34,240 am thinking of my version with Mamas and Papas and the the four 288 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,240 season board because it just gives you a bit more depth. 289 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,000 It gives you a bit more control about the cards it gives you. 290 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,000 It gives you a bit more, I guess, weight to the game. 291 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,120 Because. Because two seasons are no 292 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,040 longer passive. Yeah, right was it? 293 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,840 And you get, yeah, you get spring, summer, autumn, winter, 294 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,280 right. And you and you get the the wake 295 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,120 up mechanic, the rooster. Yes. 296 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:02,840 Which is do I do I pass earlier to get and wake up earlier to 297 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,920 get them to get better spaces? Or do I leave it it just it just 298 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,280 feels like a more complete game? I agree. 299 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:10,880 Yeah. And people say, because I say I 300 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,119 play Vittico, I love Vitticulture, but people look at 301 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:17,680 me with a oh, that's a bit average, but in my head it's 302 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:21,319 whatever. The modules that we get out, we 303 00:17:21,319 --> 00:17:24,160 play with most of them. We still cycle some of the older 304 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,200 ones, the original full, the full scale Tuscany box. 305 00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:32,400 Yeah, but yeah, that's the one that I would never not play. 306 00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:36,880 And when I started thinking about this episode, there's a 307 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:43,160 lot of games I found where I'd think I would only play with an 308 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:48,160 expansion, even even if that requires me to learn some extra 309 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,400 rules. So Arc Nova and viticulture are 310 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:53,800 two of them. Yeah. 311 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:59,440 What other game would you play with the like a must? 312 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,360 So I'm a huge fan of Civilization games. 313 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,280 I love the Civ builder, right? And there's two based on Sid 314 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:10,080 Meier's computer game. There's one that was released in 315 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:14,440 2011 and one that was released, I don't know, 2018. 316 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,240 It's not, but it's newer, called New Dawn. 317 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:19,560 The original Civilization is my favorite. 318 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,600 It came with two expansion boxes that got released maybe a couple 319 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,760 of years apart. And they are both absolutely 320 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,000 necessary to have the full sieve feeling. 321 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,680 One adds adds a different combat mechanic and some new sieves and 322 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,000 the other oh, now I remember I think it's trading, but they 323 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:41,840 just adds 2 elements of the computer game in that you need 324 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,160 this must have it makes war better. 325 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:50,560 And yeah, I mean, it's it's a a table very often. 326 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:54,280 Mostly because whenever I reference it, everyone who plays 327 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,360 the game with me says that I'm aggressive. 328 00:18:56,360 --> 00:19:02,160 Nuclear Warfare driver And there there was a game when I played 329 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:04,200 it and everyone would thought I was being really friendly and I 330 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,240 found some plutonium. I fired off nukes, nukes to 331 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:08,400 everybody. And that was the end of the 332 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:09,360 game. I was the winner. 333 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,280 So it's never got to take the table, the game. 334 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,920 It's not that I'm an aggressive player, but so, so there's that. 335 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,240 And then there's Civilisation, which is the New Dawn version, 336 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:23,640 which then which is OK, it was simplified rules had had the the 337 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:27,280 same mechanic as or very similar mechanic to Art Nova where you 338 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,640 put a card in it, it moves across. 4. 339 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,720 Or five cards. And then he added, I think it's 340 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:39,480 Terra Incognita, which again added a number of elements to 341 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:40,960 the game. And I think this is Fantasy 342 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,040 Flight Dues quite a bit. It's bits that should have been 343 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:46,000 in the core game. Oh, sure. 344 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,280 And then so you might have had only 5 objectives in the whole 345 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,360 of the base game and they added another 5 in just to give you a 346 00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:58,320 bit more variety and mix it up, but it should have been there to 347 00:19:58,320 --> 00:19:59,480 start with. Yeah. 348 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,200 So Civilization games, two of them from the same same breed. 349 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,600 If you like both, IE absolutely would always play with the 350 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,480 expansions just because it makes it feel complete. 351 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:12,840 Yeah, I can. Yeah, I get that. 352 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:17,840 I definitely can see that. How about you? 353 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:22,240 Any other games that you? So unfortunately, I'm thinking 354 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,800 of games with expansions that are not necessary. 355 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:29,320 I'm thinking the opposite because because you just took, 356 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,880 you took my top two, you know, Arc Nova and Viticulture, you 357 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,160 got to play with the expansion. I'm just thinking about games 358 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:41,000 that don't need the expansions. I thought, I mean, there's loads 359 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,360 of games that I've got expansions for which I just 360 00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:45,720 don't add. It doesn't mean it doesn't mean 361 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,360 it doesn't need it. It's just I think it's time. 362 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:51,560 Time and learning. So. 363 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,720 Is a is a challenge. Let's talk about I'm. 364 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,760 Just going to go look at my. Or Leon? 365 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:00,680 How about or Leon? We were talking about it 366 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:06,080 beforehand. So that's one that is a great 367 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:07,920 example. So I think it's got the core 368 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,480 game. I'm like it's I'm going to get 369 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:12,520 some going to get some board game geek stats because I 370 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,120 reckon, but it's a bit quite, I think it's a good working 371 00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:18,320 example. So released in 2014. 372 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,160 Rank 32. Yeah, pretty solid. 373 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,280 It's. My favorite game, The solid 374 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:28,240 game. Not only has it had expansions, 375 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,360 it's had its RE implementations as well. 376 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:36,400 That's true. It's got 27 expansions. 377 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:41,240 Wow. Of which I think there's three, 378 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,960 what I would call proper expansions, right? 379 00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:50,960 So more recently, last year, I think Essen 23, there was the 380 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:52,360 plague. The plague. 381 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:54,080 We don't have it, but you do. I've. 382 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:58,640 Got it, it it it mixes up the event deck and a little bit of a 383 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,880 new structure because everyone is ill. 384 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:08,520 OK. Then prior to that was trade and 385 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:13,080 intrigue. Trade and intrigue. 2016, which 386 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:16,440 we always play with. It's called a different, a 387 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,000 different. It's the board where you can 388 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,680 trade in lights. What's it called? 389 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:25,640 So it's like the intrigue board but I've forgotten. 390 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,840 Yeah, yeah. It's a ball where you it's like 391 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,520 one position and it gives you coins or victory points, right? 392 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,920 And then prior to that, after that, there was also a price 393 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,400 that was all your invasion. Invasion. 394 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,400 Invasion is cool. It's really alters. 395 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,960 It alters the game because it makes it cooperative. 396 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,560 Yeah, and you've kind of got everyone's coming to attack. 397 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:55,040 So Eulio is in Katie's top five games ever and and we both love 398 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,480 cooperatives. So when the Invasion expansion 399 00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:58,760 came out. That's perfect. 400 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:00,680 We had to have it, had to have it. 401 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:09,240 All of the other expansions are singular tiles, yeah, which they 402 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,280 sometimes they're a pack of three, like promo. 403 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:15,000 I mean promo one, promo 2, they came in one, two, three things. 404 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:21,320 So you just said the keyword promo, promo, and I think that's 405 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,520 the distinction. Yeah. 406 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:29,800 A promo does not an expansion. Make Yeah, I think that solved 407 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:31,560 it. Well, is yeah. 408 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,960 Is he a promo? I don't think a promo in an is 409 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,480 necessarily an expansion. It may expand. 410 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,600 But are these promos? If I said that word, no. 411 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,760 They they are. Didn't get a cards, but it did 412 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,760 come as a set of three. So it's a promo to me, something 413 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,560 that people give away, a trait like a UKGE. 414 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:55,560 This weekend there'd be a card that will be exclusive I think 415 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:57,160 for a shuffle. Everyone's getting excited 416 00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,360 because there's a card that's going to be handed out at UKGE 417 00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:02,760 that's exclusive. It's just a card, just a good 418 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,000 for the good for complete, complete completionists. 419 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,680 But that probably is a promo. Right. 420 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:11,800 Yeah, yeah. Get hold of them. 421 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,080 Yeah, that's another, that's another interesting points on 422 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:20,080 their expansions journey. That's a that's a good question 423 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:24,360 to pose to to our listeners. Yeah, is a promo expansion or 424 00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:27,320 what makes. Is a promo an expansion or what 425 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,680 makes an expansion? Or what makes yeah. 426 00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:33,480 Send us Adm on Instagram, Spotify. 427 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:39,960 Yeah, well it's a good a good case study. 2014 20/15/2016 Two 428 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:44,040 expansion boxes. Yep, nearly 7-8 years later, 429 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:47,480 another one. There was a spin off because 430 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,720 there's only old stories which I've never tried. 431 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:55,080 So it's really good. You can play it twice where it's 432 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,720 unique, but after you've played it twice, there's no reason to 433 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:00,080 play it again. Yeah. 434 00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:02,160 So what was it like A legacy? It. 435 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,040 Kind of. More like a campaign. 436 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,960 OK, Yeah. It's it's two campaigns. 437 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:12,440 You can play both of them twice. They each have two different 438 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:16,280 outcomes, right. But then, then you're done. 439 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,840 We sold it because we played it, right? 440 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,920 We completed both the campaigns and we were like, yeah, we're 441 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:23,040 done. We're done. 442 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,080 There's there's nothing else to so. 443 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:33,240 So yeah, yeah, what other games have I got in my list of the 444 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,560 truckers? Always play with the river. 445 00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:38,480 Well, always the river. I agree. 446 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,040 I. Agree, I haven't got any other 447 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,040 expansions apart from maybe there's there's a pre something 448 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:44,680 that came in the box which we've never added. 449 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:51,880 So all right, Carcassonne, I'm going to tell you, I'm going to 450 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,800 confess. So when I play Carcassonne, we 451 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,320 play with all of the expansions. Oh yeah, we say. 452 00:25:58,680 --> 00:25:59,400 Oh. I know. 453 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,880 Oh. It's like 55,000. 454 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:04,520 No. And I think there's like 12 455 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,400 expansions that we have and. How many are there? 456 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:10,320 Oh, what is that? Because Is that because you've 457 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,040 mixed all in and you just can't be bothered to? 458 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:20,920 That's that's exactly why. Here again, Parker Zone, How 459 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,160 many expansions are on board Game Geek? 460 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:31,200 Oh my God, how many a. 183. Wow, OK, I don't want that but. 461 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,880 Because there's so many single tiles, so you've got loads of 462 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,160 essence spill 11 tile bounces. Oh yeah. 463 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,560 So here's the problem. Here's the problem with the the 464 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:44,920 promo, Carcassonne with all that. 465 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:49,120 You take what's a really good one hour game and you turn it 466 00:26:49,120 --> 00:26:54,360 into like 5 hours. I'm yeah, we're playing for five 467 00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:56,280 hours and I'm like, I'm just done. 468 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,400 That is an Angel, isn't it? That's a great. 469 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,160 Tiles. How many more tiles are left in 470 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,080 the tower 6? 100 and. 5. 471 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:08,800 That is a risk that some some expansions just bloat it for the 472 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:13,480 sake of having an expansion and it makes it no longer any fun. 473 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,040 Yes, and I've tried. I've sat here and I cannot. 474 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:21,200 I can't really think of many examples, but that's not to say 475 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,240 there aren't any in my collection, I just can't 476 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,480 remember. So Carcassonne is a great game. 477 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,440 You have to play it with the river expansion, but a lot of 478 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,320 its expansions just bloat it out of control. 479 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,640 Oh, just remember 1. Yeah, lay it on me. 480 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,520 The suit of happiness. Oh, you played that? 481 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,040 I have, I haven't. I didn't. 482 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,040 I've never played with an expansion though. 483 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,800 So I always played with at least one expansion, really, because 484 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:51,800 it's yeah, because it's got lots of, it's got like lots of random 485 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:53,720 decks of cards that spices things up. 486 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:59,200 But we did a while ago play with all of it apart from the promo 487 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:03,360 packs, Everything, everything. Because there's like the dreams 488 00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:10,600 and there's community and it was, it was really good, but did 489 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,360 it. We enjoyed it because the best 490 00:28:12,360 --> 00:28:15,000 bit at the end of it is telling a story of your family and what 491 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,920 you've done. But to get there, it was a chore 492 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,680 because there was so many cards, so much admin. 493 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,560 But yeah, to think about adding things in a lot, a lot of cards 494 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,600 let. Me ask you, let me ask you this 495 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,400 question. I think it's worth kind of 496 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:33,920 closing the end of the conversation a little bit, 497 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,600 maybe. How do you feel about games 498 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,120 where when you buy the you buy the core game? 499 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:45,360 There's clearly room for more expansions in their little 500 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:50,240 insert or whatever. And so so that means that the 501 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:54,440 publisher or the designer designed a game, released a game 502 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,880 knowing that expansions are coming in the future. 503 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,600 So it's like they're intentionally, you know? 504 00:28:59,920 --> 00:29:02,720 A really live example would be Expeditions. 505 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:08,760 Jamie's just announced an expansion and all the bits will 506 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,680 fit in the box and somebody was even pointing out where they 507 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,000 will go. So there's a which I haven't 508 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:20,080 decided whether I'm going to invest in or not, but yeah, I 509 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,680 think that does. So I do like the forward 510 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,400 thinking and thinking, hey, I've got, I've not got to get another 511 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:33,920 box or I've had a few games where they've had to send me a, 512 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,400 I've had to buy a new box because the existing box no 513 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,160 longer holds any of the expansions. 514 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,560 And you've got, you've got, you know, I guess big boxes all 515 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:46,000 along, right? So I'm thinking about, I'm 516 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,320 thinking about heat pedal to the metal. 517 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,440 So is that similar? In terms of it's got lots of 518 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:57,200 space for future. So it is because we got the game 519 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,800 and then the recent expansion Heavy Rain came out and we have 520 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,880 it. So in the insert there's a space 521 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:08,600 for the joysticks, right? Your your gear shifter and 522 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,920 there's clearly space. I remember one more. 523 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:13,200 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm like. 524 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:18,440 So, so now I know there's at least one more expansion to 525 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,280 Heat. You know, Heat's a great game 526 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,520 and I love it and I love all the game, all the race tracks. 527 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:29,520 It's, it's fantastic. But I'm a little, I'm like, 528 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,880 dude, just give it all to me at one time, you know? 529 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:34,880 That's not commercial, that's not business. 530 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,320 I know it's. I know, I know that, I know that 531 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:42,280 that's true. But I'm like, you know, yeah, 532 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:44,680 so. So. 533 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,600 Yeah. You know, just before we wrap 534 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,880 up, I thought I'd do my What does AI say? 535 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,000 Oh well, let's hear what? AI has to say I've I've asked it 536 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,000 are ball games expansion necessary and give me the pros 537 00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,080 and cons. Oh. 538 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,840 So ball game expansions can enhance the game experience, but 539 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,560 I'm not always necessary. Here are some pros and cons to 540 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:09,960 consider. Pros Increased variety, new 541 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,200 characters, new scenarios, all mechanics keeping the game fresh 542 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,600 and engaging 2 Extended replayability that can 543 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,400 rejuvenate interest in a game, providing more reasons to play 544 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:21,800 again. Yeah, true. 545 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,200 Enhanced complexity for experienced players. 546 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,040 Expansion can introduce more strategic depth and complexity. 547 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,840 That's my example of Civilization. 548 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,840 Yes. Community and content expansions 549 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,560 can foster a community around a game, leading to more shared 550 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,520 experiences and content such as a fan created materials. 551 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,360 Maybe I'm thinking Arkham Horror the guard game where there was 552 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,640 some spin offs people. Made their own and. 553 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,200 There's quite a few things, say one game we didn't talk about 554 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:56,320 was Terraforming Mars. So in my research, I think it 555 00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:00,560 came out like the highest ranked expansions because everyone said 556 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,400 you've got our ad one of the expansions in depending on. 557 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,080 Got. To say that's one, that there's 558 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,760 one cons cost, that's number one. 559 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,160 Purchasing multiple expansion can be expensive, often costing 560 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:18,240 us much more than the base game. Sometimes that's true. 561 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,560 Not often. Sometimes. 562 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:27,160 I think my most expansion expensive expansion additions is 563 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:31,400 too many bones. It's so completist 564 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:35,520 completionist. Oh, I've paid all that learning 565 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:36,800 curve. We've covered some additional 566 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,200 rules and components can complicate the game, making it 567 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,600 harder for new players to join. It's like a little summary every 568 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:42,520 week, isn't it's quite good. I know I. 569 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,480 Like this number? Three sets up and storage 570 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,200 expansions can increase the set design. 571 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,480 They require more storage space, potentially making the game more 572 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,560 cumbersome. Do you throw your ball game 573 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,440 expansion boxes away or do you store them? 574 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,000 You know what I do in mind? What do you do? 575 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,880 Because it's wrong. If you put yours on the, you put 576 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:01,760 yours as art. I do and. 577 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,400 If they don't get as art, do you throw them away or do you store 578 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,440 them? I will throw them away. 579 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:08,560 OK, fine. Yeah, I just throw mine away. 580 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:10,000 So here's the interesting thing. I. 581 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:11,760 Recycle them. I recycle them. 582 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:13,040 Right. Fair. 583 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,080 Yes, So do I. OK, here's what's interesting. 584 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:16,920 I'm staring at my wall right now. 585 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:21,200 I've got four. I've got five boxes on my wall 586 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,640 above my game shelf. Four of them are expansions. 587 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,360 Yeah. I've got landmarks from 588 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:33,200 Cascadia, I've got heavy, heavy rain from heat, I've got late 589 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,840 arrivals for Isle of Cats and I've got blood money for Western 590 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:37,480 Legends. They. 591 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,760 Have nice boxes. Yeah, but then I have wingspan 592 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,360 because I got the nesting box upstairs, so. 593 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,160 Oh. Yeah, that's good Boxes though. 594 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:47,560 Yeah. Yeah, and often when I, when I 595 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,040 break a box up, I always pop out the sides, it's flat. 596 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,600 And then I think if I just got the face has got a knife, you 597 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,600 know, and sliced out the box neatly and then got a box for 598 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:57,160 him, they'd make really nice artwork. 599 00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,440 And then I would. Yeah. 600 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,480 And #4 which I don't think we really covered was compatibility 601 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,320 issues. Some expansions might not 602 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,320 integrate well with others, causing imbalance or confusion. 603 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:12,920 Oh oh. There are there are there are 604 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,719 expansions that make the game worse, that may be better for 605 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,360 three or four players and less so. 606 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:24,040 What about just thinking about June Imperium and the new June, 607 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,199 which is really. Oh yeah. 608 00:34:26,199 --> 00:34:28,440 That's that's a discussion as well. 609 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,440 I've got played. And so suddenly, ultimately 610 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,560 where expansions are necessary depends on whether sort of 611 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,239 expansion necessary depends on your enjoyment of the base game 612 00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:40,000 and your desire for additional content and complexity. 613 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,159 Basically, you don't need a Mavimal. 614 00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:45,040 Do your research. Hold back. 615 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:47,760 Right. It costs money and cardboard. 616 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,760 And cardboard, which is bad for the environment. 617 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:55,600 So So what we need to do is we need to and I'm going to do a 618 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,520 shameless plug because I know you're going to see them at UK 619 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:02,240 games Expo check games, right? CGEI know you're going to see 620 00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:03,760 them are. We talking about SETI. 621 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:10,560 Yeah, they need to use more of that RE wood environmentally 622 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,800 friendly by product for the games. 623 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,760 Yeah, about that, because that's in Kunta Hoora. 624 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,760 The good news is, is that in the UK, every couple of weeks we 625 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,680 have a board game raffle on Facebook and I've just won a 626 00:35:25,720 --> 00:35:27,200 board game. What? 627 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:31,160 As it's imminent e-mail, so on a you know, thank you board game 628 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:35,320 raffle people, I shall go and choose a game just just in case 629 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,280 I need another one. I shall know what. 630 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,240 I shall let me know what I choose next week. 631 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,560 And how many expansions does that game have? 632 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:45,080 I'll have a. Look and I'll choose one with 633 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:46,720 that expansions. So. 634 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,280 Good topic. So let's let's recap really 635 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,160 quickly. I think we mentioned a lot of 636 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,600 games, so we've got two columns here and I was writing them down 637 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,080 as we were talking. So these are games with 638 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,960 expansions that you don't necessarily need. 639 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:10,040 There's ISS, Vanguard, Nemesis, Ticket to Ride, Scythe, Western 640 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:15,600 Legends, and Wingspan, all really fantastic games in their 641 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:17,920 own right. You don't have to get all their 642 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:19,800 expansions. Some are good, some are bad. 643 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,600 Go back and listen to this episode and you hear what we had 644 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:27,520 to say. The second category, these are 645 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:33,240 games that you absolutely must play with an expansion arc. 646 00:36:33,240 --> 00:36:37,720 Nova Viticulture, right? It it's it's essential. 647 00:36:37,720 --> 00:36:42,760 It's essential. And then civilization, the 2011, 648 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,280 right, 2011 civilization. Is that correct, Gareth? 649 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:49,160 Yeah, and and the new Dawn version 2015. 650 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:51,640 Yep, ish. Maybe earlier, later. 651 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,160 And then or Leon? Or Leon. 652 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,960 Carcassonne with the river, but you don't, but you don't need 653 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,280 everything else. And then, of course, terrifying 654 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:06,040 Mars with Prelude. That is our combined list to 655 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,440 cover our 2082. Yeah, it's a good list. 656 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:14,960 OK, then I next you're going to do an episode with somebody else 657 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:16,720 next week because I'm at the Games Expo. 658 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,440 Let's not say that it's until you've got one because I'm at 659 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,240 the Games Expo. And then the following week 660 00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:25,480 we'll be back and I'll have some sound clips and we can talk 661 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:29,520 about who I saw, what games we played, whether I got a chance 662 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:33,560 to chill out. So I want to I want to put out 663 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,640 officially. So you made a comment. 664 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,840 That's what did I say? Last week you made a very, you 665 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,480 made a brief comment, you complimented John for filling in 666 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:47,400 for you from the week before. Oh yeah, you you made a comment 667 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:53,720 that we should have more fill in hosts when one or both of us 668 00:37:53,720 --> 00:37:59,360 can't make it for an episode. And I got some responses from 669 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,240 that. This is excellent news. 670 00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:07,720 So I've I've had three people volunteer to fill in if either 671 00:38:07,720 --> 00:38:10,640 of us can't make it. And so I think we're going to 672 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,120 make, let's make it official. If anyone's interested in being 673 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,160 like a 'cause we want a cast of hosts. 674 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:16,680 Oh yeah, yeah, it'll definitely help. 675 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:22,160 To cover multiple topics at different times, please send us 676 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,960 Adm and Instagram. Let us know that you're 677 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,000 interested. Grab me at the show. 678 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,760 Yeah, person. If you see if you see Gareth at 679 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,040 UK Games Expo, myself at Origins or Gen. 680 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,920 Con, which is what we talked about in Episode 81. 681 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:39,440 You. Can help us out? 682 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:40,840 That's great. It's cool. 683 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,080 Well, with that. Blah blah, do a thing. 684 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:48,440 Thanks for everyone for listening and hopefully see some 685 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,280 of you next week. If not, we'll be back for a 686 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:53,200 little chat. See you soon. 687 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,120 Thanks everyone for listening, please subscribe and as always, 688 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:02,120 we'd love to hear your thoughts and ideas, so make sure to leave 689 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:06,280 those in the comments and don't forget you can also chat with us 690 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,000 both on Instagram at Meeple to Meeple.