1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,880 Welcome to Maple to Maple, uniting players around the 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:06,640 world, a 30 minute exploration of TJ and Gareth's four-game 3 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:09,480 experiences from across both sides of the Atlantic. 4 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:12,720 Each episode they share their thoughts and opinions on the 5 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,280 world of four games, including their favorite themes, games, 6 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:21,840 hot topics, and much, much more. I want to tell you all about two 7 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:25,880 people who have just completely, as I was telling them before the 8 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:28,960 recording, have invaded our home in the past few months. 9 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,000 Their game is amazing and they have another one coming out. 10 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:34,560 So we're going to talk about their whole work. 11 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,520 It's Dusty and Amy from Ducks Somnium and we're in other 12 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:44,040 games, botany and what is hasn't been fulfilled yet in the floor. 13 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:45,440 Is that right, guys? Yep. 14 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,200 Well, Dusty and Amy, thank you so much for being on Maple to 15 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:50,200 Maple. We appreciate it. 16 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:51,560 Yeah. Thank you for having us. 17 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:55,040 We're very excited. Yeah, I'm more excited than you 18 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:57,560 guys, right? Yeah. 19 00:00:57,640 --> 00:00:59,960 Our listeners are going to get a whole new me today. 20 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:02,920 Just, you know, I'm going to try not to stutter and fall over 21 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:04,000 myself. Funny. 22 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,720 No, you guys are great. I always get nervous too. 23 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,800 I'm so nervous and shy. We, we were Ever since botany, 24 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,200 nobody cares about me. But these girls keep coming up 25 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,040 to Amy and they're like, I'm totally fangirling right now. 26 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:22,240 I'm fangirling over meeting you and Amy and Amy's so shy and 27 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:26,240 just not one to have fangirls and she's like looking at me 28 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:26,920 like. Fanboys. 29 00:01:26,960 --> 00:01:31,040 Yeah, well, she's like, what's? Happening to PJ, can fangirl out 30 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:33,720 too. Unfortunately, I can't fanboy 31 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:37,600 too much about Amy because all my communications were with 32 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:39,760 Dusty. That's because she's so shy. 33 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:43,160 Yeah, it's all me. So I feel like all the emails 34 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,400 that came from Dusty. So I feel like I've got a better 35 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:47,160 relationship with Dusty and that's not. 36 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,760 Fair. And I hope to change that today. 37 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:54,960 So Dusty and Amy, you, why don't you tell us a little bit about 38 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:59,200 yourselves, how you got into the board gaming community and into 39 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:00,600 designing games? Because y'all have an 40 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:03,600 interesting story. That is a, that is a roundabout 41 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:08,520 story. It is so we, I mean, we've been 42 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,360 playing games a long time. I started in elementary school 43 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:17,200 with Axis and Allies and battle tech and magic and, you know, 44 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:22,440 the typical very nerdy 90s kids stuff and, and Amy and I started 45 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:26,800 dating when we were 14 and so we kind of grew up into it and. 46 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:30,760 And we also always played rummy. Which my rummy 13 with my my 47 00:02:30,920 --> 00:02:33,520 with my grandma she was. Like 90. 48 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:35,640 She was, yeah, she was in her 80s when we met. 49 00:02:35,640 --> 00:02:39,160 She made it all the way to 101 and was still like just an 50 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:40,880 absolute rummy shark until the until. 51 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,080 The every time we played with her and she'd beat us like 52 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,080 almost every. Time ruthlessly wouldn't care. 53 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,600 We play that and then we and we kind of got into it. 54 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:49,760 We started getting into lighter games that Amy would play. 55 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:54,120 And so like Munchkin and Dominion, Small World, Ticket to 56 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,080 Ride, stuff like that as they came along and. 57 00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:58,920 Checking off all the boxes right now. 58 00:02:58,920 --> 00:03:00,640 I know. Yeah, our pedigree is good. 59 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:06,360 Yeah, for sure. And so Fast forward to we, you 60 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:09,120 know, we finished college, we got married, we started, we have 61 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:13,400 4 businesses and they're all they're, it's relevant to, I'll 62 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:15,680 gloss over some of it, but it's relevant to how we got to board 63 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:16,360 gaming. Sure. 64 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:21,520 The first two businesses, one it does is a website, platforms for 65 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,920 travel marketing organizations. And the other is photography, 66 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,240 wedding photography. And we said ha, ha, between 67 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,480 these two, we are so diversified, nothing will ever 68 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:35,360 come along that simultaneously destroys travel and events. 69 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:38,520 Yeah, you can tell where that's going. 70 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,120 And so 2020 rolls along and decides that we shouldn't do a 71 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:43,560 whole lot of work for a few years. 72 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:46,800 And. We needed to find something 73 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,720 else. So we were like, well, also I, I 74 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,680 love taking pictures. And so we were like, well, I 75 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,720 want to build a lavender farm and then how can we make some 76 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:58,320 money so. We live next to the ranch I grew 77 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,200 up on still. And so we have, we have a lot of 78 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:04,400 space for lavender, Yeah. And then we're like, well, 79 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,840 lavender takes a little while to grow, so let's do some like 80 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,040 laser work and make some flower presses. 81 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,120 I love flower. And those took off like crazy. 82 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,280 We sold a couple thousand of those in a year and a half. 83 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:18,000 Actually, whenever we were like trying to figure out what 84 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,120 products to make, I was like, I want to make a flower press and 85 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:22,880 just he's like, I don't know about that. 86 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:23,720 It might. Not I said. 87 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,360 I said no one's ever gonna buy these stupid flower presses. 88 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:28,400 I mean, they look real nice, but no one's gonna. 89 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:29,000 And then. So yeah. 90 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:31,440 And that's like the thing we sold the most. 91 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:33,840 Yeah, we hardly ever sold any lavender because it wasn't 92 00:04:33,840 --> 00:04:36,200 really harvested yet, but we sold, yeah, tons of tons and 93 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:37,720 tons of flower presses. OK. 94 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:42,040 So that all that condenses like half our lives into how we got 95 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:43,680 to manufacturing board games well. 96 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:48,320 Sort of because then Dusty wanted a resin printer to make 97 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:50,560 his own. I started painting Warhammer and 98 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,520 playing Warhammer and I wanted and which was denied me when I 99 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:54,800 was a child. Thank you parents. 100 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:56,680 Because it was too expensive. My parents wouldn't let me do 101 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:57,920 it. And then one day I realized I'm 102 00:04:57,920 --> 00:04:59,160 an adult. I can do. 103 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,760 I could play Warhammer and and so. 104 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,520 I still make that argument today when people ask me why I don't 105 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:08,920 play Warhammer MY. Stepmom asked me when I'm going 106 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,520 to grow up and I'm like, I'd make a living not growing up 107 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:15,840 like specifically. So we were driving to a wedding 108 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:19,320 and as we often do when driving 3 hours to a wedding, we were 109 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:21,840 just talking about business and coming up with ideas. 110 00:05:21,840 --> 00:05:24,400 And I said well you know, I really want one of these resin 111 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:25,560 printers. I want to print my own 112 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,000 miniatures and. Make a business case, yeah. 113 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,440 And then and Amy's like, OK, well, make it, you know, why 114 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:31,920 don't you try to make some money off of it then? 115 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,160 And I was like, well, people sell miniatures on Etsy and we, 116 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,320 you know, that's where our flower press store was. 117 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:38,640 And we were really good at Etsy. I was like, well, I could do 118 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:40,400 that, but all these people are selling the same thing. 119 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:41,960 Well, if they're all selling the same thing, how do we 120 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:43,680 differentiate? Oh, we must need to pay somebody 121 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:45,720 to make our own scopes. And then we'll sell our own 122 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:47,440 miniatures. And Amy goes, well, if you're 123 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:49,400 making miniatures, you might as well make a board game. 124 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:50,680 And. And yeah. 125 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,800 And that was it right there. But then we were making another 126 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,760 game like a. Sci-fi, fantasy, all the above, 127 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,640 and that's still going slowly. It just takes a long time we. 128 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,480 Realized how expensive miniatures are and how much art 129 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,040 costs. You're gonna need a staff pretty 130 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,160 soon. Well, that we, we have had 131 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,680 employees for our other businesses and I, I'm a big fan 132 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:13,600 of contractors. So we're going to try and ride 133 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:18,120 that out for as long as we can, but we're getting there and. 134 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:22,320 I want to point out really quickly, and I'm this is, this 135 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:27,360 is for Gareth's sake, You drove 3 hours to a wedding, OK. 136 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:31,320 Our, our our English friends complain about a one hour drive 137 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:33,400 and how long that is. Yeah. 138 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:35,920 Yeah, so I was trying. I love that when you said it. 139 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,200 Five hours. Yeah, we drive five hours away, 140 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:39,640 no, probably, and come home that night. 141 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:42,240 We do. You're in California, right? 142 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:45,080 You're in California is. That Yeah. 143 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:45,840 And nobody. Yeah. 144 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:48,640 So people, people in Europe don't understand how big 145 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:50,160 California is. I'm. 146 00:06:50,280 --> 00:06:51,960 I'm like looking at countries over there and I'm like, oh, 147 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,920 that's only 40 miles across. My mom lives farther away than 148 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,240 that. Yep, it's true. 149 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:02,440 It's so true. So, yeah, so we were so okay. 150 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:04,840 So we figured out all this stuff was very difficult, which was 151 00:07:04,840 --> 00:07:06,280 fine. We knew that we were figuring 152 00:07:06,280 --> 00:07:07,560 those things out. We've done this, we've done 153 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:09,000 stuff like this enough times before. 154 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:13,040 But Amy was in the kitchen one morning and she goes, hey, I 155 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,320 have an idea for another game. And I said, okay, And she said, 156 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:18,280 I'm like, what's it about? And she goes, well, it's about, 157 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,520 it's about pressing flowers. And I said, OK, well, that's on 158 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:23,480 brand for us. We have a fan base, you know, 159 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:25,280 maybe that could work. And I go, what's the story? 160 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:26,800 And she's like, well, I've been reading all these books. 161 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,600 Amy collects old antique books and from like, you know, 18 162 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:32,680 hundreds, 1700s, she's like, well, I've been reading all 163 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,040 these old books about all these guys that would travel all over 164 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,840 the planet looking for flowers. And they'd be losing eyes. 165 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,600 And they'd have a pet Falcon. And they'd fall in pit traps, 166 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:42,560 bulls at the bottom. And they'd be on the side of an 167 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:44,960 active volcano. And Dusty was like I can. 168 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:46,920 Work with them. Yeah, yeah, we can make this 169 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:48,600 work for sure. There's lots of non traditional. 170 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,200 We got we you know, now we have all your pretty flowers and we 171 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:53,640 have adventure perfect. Like, and I was like, OK, well, 172 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:55,800 they're traveling the world. And then we then we sat down. 173 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:57,280 We're like, what's the game look like? 174 00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:58,160 Well, they're traveling the world. 175 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,120 OK, well, that means there must be a map and you move around the 176 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:01,400 map. What happens when you move 177 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:02,680 around the map? Well, the all kinds of, you 178 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:04,880 know, you've got got flowers and these guys would be hunting. 179 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:06,360 Specific flowers events would happen. 180 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:08,480 Yeah, and all these random things would happen to them. 181 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:10,120 It's OK, that sounds like an event deck. 182 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,800 Oh my gosh, like seriously, pirates happen like all the 183 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:14,520 time. The more ridiculous the stories 184 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,920 are. 90% of the most ridiculous stories in that game are just 185 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,560 things that I took and completely loosely based on real 186 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:22,560 stories that I condensed into three sentences. 187 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:25,880 And then it just, yeah, it just took off from there. 188 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,320 We had a playable version of Botany in like a week, and we 189 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:30,800 had A and we had a business and I was already, you know, we'd 190 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:32,799 already put together all the business stuff for our other 191 00:08:32,799 --> 00:08:35,440 game. And so, yeah, and took off from 192 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:37,840 there. So you have just managed to 193 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:43,919 breeze through 2 1/2 of my questions about. 194 00:08:43,919 --> 00:08:45,160 Botany. We are wordy people. 195 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:45,800 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 196 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:47,720 So thanks for that. Yeah. 197 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,040 OK, you asked a question. You're going to get the whole 198 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,120 story. We can elaborate. 199 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,440 Yeah. Well, you, you got us, you got 200 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:59,760 us to the theme and how you got there, the time period, your 201 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:02,200 influence there, the history, your influence. 202 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,480 So let's I mean also. I was going to say also with the 203 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,880 history like the Wardian case came out with at that time, 204 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:15,560 which was so fascinating because it like made it made you able to 205 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:19,200 actually get your plants alive. It like reversed the survival 206 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,040 rate. So they had like a 5% survival 207 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:24,520 rate before the Wardian case and afterwards they had like a 95% 208 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,000 survival rate. So suddenly just the just the 209 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:30,320 fact that somebody made a little glass case suddenly made it so 210 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:34,040 that the entire, the the entire research of flowers and, and you 211 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,880 know, building a massive gardens in Europe and stuff was possible 212 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,200 with with, with foreign flowers basically. 213 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:43,200 That's amazing. That is incredible. 214 00:09:43,680 --> 00:09:46,400 So let's let's let's step back just one moment. 215 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,200 Let's talk really briefly about like general overview of Botany 216 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,560 and how it's played for those of our listeners who maybe haven't 217 00:09:53,560 --> 00:09:57,040 played it yet, maybe they're thinking about purchasing it 218 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:58,680 your local store. It's what I did. 219 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:01,680 I didn't back it on Kickstarter. I'm sorry I missed it. 220 00:10:01,680 --> 00:10:04,960 But so, so tell us just a little bit about the game itself. 221 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:06,400 Obviously it's a map of the world, right? 222 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,440 Yep. So you're gonna learn something 223 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:11,240 about me and Amy. We don't know any of the 224 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:14,080 technical terms all that well for board game design. 225 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:17,800 And so I did not know Botany was a pick up and deliver game with 226 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:21,400 tableau building until somebody said it to me about Botany. 227 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,680 OK, So, yeah, so. Kind of design games. 228 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,960 Or like we pick out a theme and then we're like, OK, what makes 229 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:32,480 sense? How do we represent these, this 230 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:36,200 real world story so that it feels, it feels like a board 231 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:37,960 game representation of what's happening? 232 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,760 We've also been told we kind of build backwards too because 233 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:44,160 like, I have to find the artwork first because it has to be 234 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,040 available. So we start with a story and an 235 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,280 idea and what could an artwork, what could represent that? 236 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:49,680 And is the artwork there to support it? 237 00:10:49,680 --> 00:10:52,040 And if the artwork's not there to support it, then we switch, 238 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:53,960 you know, we switch things around until it is. 239 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,480 Yeah, because we use all historical except for in 240 00:10:57,480 --> 00:10:59,960 Lafleur. We did hire an artist to 241 00:10:59,960 --> 00:11:02,480 supplement a few portraits. Yeah. 242 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,960 So I mean, as far as gameplay for botany is concerned, you 243 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,360 have a big map of the world. And so it's a real map from 244 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:10,000 1867. So it looks all old. 245 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,640 And we put places all over the map for places to go look for 246 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:15,600 flowers. And you have, you have flowers 247 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,040 in your hand that are like your target, like the places you want 248 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:23,200 to go to collect these flowers. And from that point on, what 249 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,880 you're trying to do is create the most efficient routes around 250 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:28,120 the world while dodging all these random things that are 251 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,080 happening to you and managing your budget. 252 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:34,320 Because back in the day, you know, there weren't ATMs. There 253 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:36,600 weren't ATMs. They would, they would leave England with the 254 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:38,520 amount of money they had. And that was the money they had 255 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:40,480 unless they managed to earn more money while they were out and 256 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:41,840 about. Like that was it. 257 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,920 Which, by the way, which by the way, is a brilliant mechanic the 258 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,080 way it works in your game. Oh good. 259 00:11:48,680 --> 00:11:51,360 No, it's incredible, right? So it's like the money you have, 260 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,480 is it, but your state is still generating income. 261 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:58,520 Yeah, back in England. I'm super rich back home, I 262 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:00,320 promise. Yeah, right. 263 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:04,120 So it's when you return, you then have like you get to take 264 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:06,680 your income back, Yeah, go on another journey, right. 265 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:08,480 So it's constantly back and forth, yeah. 266 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:10,360 Yeah. And so every turn you're 267 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:12,280 spending your money, you're trying to get around the world, 268 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:14,640 you're trying to see if you can circumnavigate the globe or if 269 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:16,680 you should just run around Europe for a bit and come back 270 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:18,960 and everybody, and it's basically a race. 271 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:22,800 Everybody is racing to see who can make the best use of the 272 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:24,720 flowers. They have the tools they're 273 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,040 given. You get, you know, you can hire 274 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:28,800 crew, you get pets, you get items. 275 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:32,280 Very nobody. I've, I've so surprised nobody 276 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:36,080 has thought this yet, but I was 100% inspired by Talisman when 277 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:40,960 it came to like getting items and crew and and help and, and 278 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,240 so we took our own, you know, spin on that. 279 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:46,080 But they would have this and sometimes the parties for these 280 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:48,360 Victorian flower hunters would be so long. 281 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:52,040 They'd be supported by 100, yeah, hundreds of people just to 282 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:54,240 go and, and everybody would just be like, OK, we got to get from 283 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,360 point A to point B and survive. Why are we doing this? 284 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:59,280 Oh, that guy wants to pick a Pansy somewhere, right? 285 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,600 Like so. Welcome to my world. 286 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:04,440 Yes. Right. 287 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:10,240 Gareth is the wealthy landowner in England and he's like, I need 288 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:11,840 you to go pick that board game for me. 289 00:13:12,680 --> 00:13:17,160 Oh yes, Sir, he's going to kill me. 290 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:18,400 He is going to kill me when he listens. 291 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,120 He's not that different. Yeah, same thing. 292 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,280 And if Gareth gets attacked by pirates, maybe you're good with 293 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:24,800 a shotgun. Yeah, there you go. 294 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,520 I'm not by the ray, but yeah, thank you. 295 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:29,640 For that so. So then after the race, 296 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:31,560 everybody. Everybody sees who's got the 297 00:13:31,560 --> 00:13:33,840 most points and whoever has the most points at the end of the 298 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,920 game from yeah, reputation. Well, the reputation ends the 299 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,240 game, but then whoever has the most victory points from the the 300 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,520 how exotic and how many flowers they got and how big their 301 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:46,000 estate has grown wins the game. And so you're sabotage. 302 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:48,240 Your. Opponent. 303 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:50,320 Yeah, you can take poisonous specimens and shove them in your 304 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:51,440 opponent's garden. That's right. 305 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,280 That's fine. Like I personally almost never 306 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,680 play that way but some of my siblings like to play. 307 00:13:57,680 --> 00:14:00,880 Dirty. So we have to put that in there 308 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:04,320 for them. And you have an entire expansion 309 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:08,880 kind of devoted to that. Yeah, like they are what? 310 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:10,840 Carnivorous Perilous. Bizarre. 311 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:12,760 It's all the weird plants. Like the ones that smell like 312 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,720 corpses and poop. Yeah, Anything. 313 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:18,000 Anything. So extra weird we need to figure 314 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,520 out like find all these bizarre plants. 315 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:24,080 And we try to make so some of the plants have like things that 316 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,240 happen when you get them. And so we try to make it so 317 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,720 like, you know, like this, like if it plants, like the size of 318 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:31,920 your kitchen, like it makes you move slower while you're trying 319 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:33,720 to move it around. Super prickly. 320 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:34,600 Yeah. Prickly. 321 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:36,720 Like if you. Get a banana. 322 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:38,800 You get to move more or something. 323 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:40,080 Like that, Yeah. Like it gives you more, gives 324 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:45,440 you more pep in your step, Yeah. So, so here you are on this 325 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:50,480 journey, this game about collecting plants, poisonous and 326 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:55,000 otherwise, later on trees with the expansion on trees in the 327 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,560 Victorian era. You've done all this research, 328 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,120 you've gotten the art secure you, you've done all this 329 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,720 together. And you know, you again, you 330 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:06,120 said, well, how do we make a game about this early on in the 331 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,520 process? I was just right before you came 332 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:12,600 on. So over 15,000 backers for 333 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:17,200 Botany and over 1,000,000 over $1 million rate. 334 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:21,160 We were never expecting that. Yeah, I was very, we were very 335 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,560 surprised by day one. It was very surprising. 336 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,680 Like what? And his dad was like, you made 337 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:28,400 how much on the. Board. 338 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,720 My dad was like, yeah, he was like, well, that sounds fun. 339 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:32,040 That'll be nice. And then he's calling. 340 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:34,760 And then after the, he calls us after he gets up in the morning, 341 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,880 he's done all his, you know, the chores out around the, the 342 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:39,640 property and everything. And he calls us up and he's 343 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:41,800 like, well, what's it look like? And I'm like, oh, we're at 344 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,880 $35,000. And he goes, you're at what? 345 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:50,560 Like off a board game? It was, it was very surprising. 346 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,920 Steel. So like, so surreal. 347 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,520 And then did you see that we're in Barnes and Noble? 348 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:57,280 Yeah. So we're in Barnes. 349 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:58,840 We're in 500 Barnes and Noble stores. 350 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:00,080 We're in Books-a-million. Just saw that. 351 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,440 Just saw your post, yeah. Yeah. 352 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:04,520 And so it just keeps going. We're already doing a reprint. 353 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:06,120 We did a big print the first time around. 354 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:10,160 We're already doing a reprint. And so we're very grateful to 355 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:11,680 all our fans. Like we just can't. 356 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:16,600 Yeah, we had. So, OK, so I'm a catastrophizer 357 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,400 when it comes to business and I, I build, I build. 358 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:22,520 All the plans I build are scalable. 359 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,320 If we had sold 100 copies or if we had sold, we're up to like 360 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:31,760 we're getting close to 25,000 copies sold, it wouldn't, it 361 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,360 wouldn't have made any difference in the, the, our 362 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,080 processes, our processes and the survivability of the plan. 363 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:41,000 And so everything scaled very nicely. 364 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:46,320 But I was fully prepared to just sell like, like if we, we had 365 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,320 internal goals and if we sold 500 copies, that was going to be 366 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:51,000 everything we needed. It was going to pay back all the 367 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,520 investment we had made on advertising and stuff like that. 368 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,720 And then we were going to print 2000 copies and we'd have 1500 369 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:58,040 to sell. And I had the whole profit and 370 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,920 everything out. And so that was what I was 371 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,600 prepared to do because we worked with Launch Boom and they're 372 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:05,599 phenomenal. And like we felt very confident 373 00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:07,760 that we would be successful. We just didn't know that we were 374 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,680 going to be as successful as we were. 375 00:17:13,079 --> 00:17:19,160 So I have a serious question for you in conversations that I've 376 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:23,440 had with gamers and non gamers. Not specifically about botany, 377 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,319 but just games in general, but also about botany. 378 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,920 I was approached and this question came up and I thought 379 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,080 it was interesting to get your take on it. 380 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:42,360 What do you say to people who claim or criticize that a game 381 00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:45,480 like Bonnie is celebrating colonialism? 382 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,560 We're in an age where we're trying to, you know, bring 383 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:52,320 harmony and colonialism is bad. And how do what do you say to 384 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:56,480 folks who make that critique of your game and others like it? 385 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,440 Thinking that these people are. They're the original 386 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:01,880 conservationists plants. Yeah, they're just going around 387 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:03,480 having fun around the world and they're the original 388 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:05,440 conservationists. I we live in. 389 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,320 So this is sort of a this is sort of a tangentially related 390 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,120 example, but we live in we live in cowboy country. 391 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,280 Even though we're from California, most people don't 392 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:15,320 associate with that. We have the large, our town 393 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:17,320 where we went to high school has the largest three day rodeo in 394 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,840 the world. And you know, everybody, 395 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,520 everybody thinks Cowboys, you know, cattle tearing up the 396 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:26,120 land, hunting and everything like that. 397 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,680 The greatest conservationists I have ever met in my entire life 398 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,040 are Cowboys. They love the land. 399 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:37,480 They, when they hunt, they do so with respect for food and 400 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,960 they're concerned about the well-being of all, like the deer 401 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,560 populations, the duck populations, right? 402 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:44,640 And no, nobody thinks about it quite like they do. 403 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,200 And that's how I think about these, these guys that were 404 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,400 going around the world. And plus we were also just like 405 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:51,800 it's like. Make believe. 406 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:53,440 Yeah, it's make believe first. Have fun. 407 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:54,560 It's. A boring game. 408 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,600 But second off, they were only actually, The funny thing was I 409 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,200 got more questions, I got fewer questions about colonialism than 410 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,800 I did about people being concerned with like, like, are 411 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:04,960 they going to get involved in this war if it was this time, or 412 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:06,720 are they going to get involved in if it is this war, if at this 413 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:08,520 time? And I'm like, no, our plant 414 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:10,560 hunters, they're just they're so oblivious. 415 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:11,960 They're just concerned about their plants. 416 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:15,480 They're just running around. But they didn't go to places and 417 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,240 wipe out a whole population of plants. 418 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:19,000 They would go to place. They would, they would bring 419 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,080 home like ten of these flowers. They would take them, they'd put 420 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,560 them in Kew Gardens. They were raising awareness 421 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,360 about these places all around the world. 422 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:27,600 And now? Making seed banks. 423 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,520 Yeah, making seed banks and, and if you look at the work that 424 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,760 that all these places like Kew Gardens or what's the one in 425 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:37,800 Paris, is it the Jardin DuPont or something like that, All the 426 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:41,760 work they do started in the Victorian era and it started 427 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:45,400 with these guys. And it's like so, so my thought 428 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,240 is that they were the, I mean, they're the original 429 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,000 conservationists. You know, things were different 430 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:53,120 back then, but the whole goal was to find these flowers, bring 431 00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:55,320 them back, show them to the world, document them for 432 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:59,440 science, learn how to. And the science also led to more 433 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,560 conservation. And medical advancement. 434 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:07,520 Yeah, you name it. So yeah, that that's my thought 435 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,120 about the whole thing. I love that. 436 00:20:10,120 --> 00:20:12,840 I think that's great. I wish I would have we kind of 437 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,360 articulated that a little better when I, when that question came 438 00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:19,400 up to me with some friends, I'm like, well, you know, it's 439 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,280 history. Oh my God, how did I, you know 440 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,400 what I mean? That's that is great. 441 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:26,800 And science has to start somewhere. 442 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:31,240 So we're set in the Victorian era and I'm going to make Gareth 443 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:33,520 proud. So your game, and I've told you 444 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,280 all this beforehand, but for everyone who's listening, if you 445 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:37,840 haven't gotten botany, you have to. 446 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:42,080 It is a perfect compliment to our favorite game, obsession. 447 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:44,680 Everyone who listens knows that obsession. 448 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:46,600 You're building your estate, Botany. 449 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,400 You play that second because now your estate is established and 450 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,880 you're traveling the world as one of the first 451 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,120 conservationists and you're bringing samples back. 452 00:20:56,120 --> 00:20:59,440 You're creating seed banks. You're helping develop medical 453 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,600 research and science that would take us into the next century. 454 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,200 And that is the beauty of botany. 455 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,000 I love it. That is why it has taken over 456 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:11,600 our home and it's just a perfect part to and I think we've got 457 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,200 part one. If we have a trilogy, we think 458 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:18,480 that our friend Heather Dixon who just finished fulfillment on 459 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:23,480 Kickstarter, Apistocracy. Yes, Heather's great her game. 460 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,680 It's 1851 in London. So you're going to London, 461 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,600 you're part of the Tawn. You get married. 462 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:33,080 So I feel like you play that first on a Saturday afternoon, 463 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,760 then you play obsession so that you can establish your estate 464 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,360 and then you play Botany and you go and you're. 465 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,080 Spreading your wings to the rest of the world, yeah. 466 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,840 I love it. So I want to ask you about and I 467 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:50,320 think we'll shift gears to Lafleur, but I was really 468 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:56,360 surprised by how recent Botany was, how much time in design and 469 00:21:56,360 --> 00:21:59,840 process everything between Botany and Lafleur. 470 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,720 So Botany. We basically handed the files 471 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,080 for Botany off around July. And we were already making our 472 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,280 next. We we have a list of 30 games 473 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:15,080 that are on the short list and cannot stop creating. 474 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,760 Yeah, he kind of gets a little. I got mad at her today because 475 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,200 she's supposed to be working on stuff for like all the all the 476 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,040 printings, like going in process manufacturing for Lafleur is 477 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,320 underway, the whole 9 yards. But we need to get the French 478 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,240 files, the French translation files together. 479 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:30,440 And I thought she was working on those. 480 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,040 And I go in there and she's got 82 tabs open for a totally 481 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:34,720 different game. It's not even on the next. 482 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:36,120 We. Already have two other games 483 00:22:36,120 --> 00:22:37,880 working on that are the next games and I don't even know 484 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:38,960 where this one falls in the timeline. 485 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:40,760 And I'm just looking at her like, what are you doing? 486 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:42,080 She's like, I'm making another game like. 487 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:46,640 Playing with three different games, I like like just finding 488 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,440 the artwork, categorizing. Coming up with ideas. 489 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,320 Yeah. Stories and gameplay. 490 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,400 So, yeah. So we had already, like, Lafleur 491 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,120 was already baking by the time that Botany's campaign was done. 492 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,680 And then once we handed the botany files off the 493 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:01,680 manufacturer, everybody's like, wow, you turn that, you know, I 494 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:03,000 can't believe you're already working on our game. 495 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,400 I'm like, well, I mean, this is this is what we do. 496 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,160 And we have nothing to do while this game's been manufactured 497 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,680 for four months. So we made we made another game. 498 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,240 And we are actually, we already made another one. 499 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:14,320 And we're ready to say it out loud. 500 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,120 We have another game coming, War of the Posies. 501 00:23:16,120 --> 00:23:19,280 So the floor is going off to the manufacturer and war, War of the 502 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,320 Posies, which is a it's a stand alone game in the world of 503 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,440 botany. But War of the Posies is more or 504 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,560 less done. It needs to be just play testing 505 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,160 but like the arts done, the graphics design is done. 506 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:32,640 It's much smaller, it's just a little. 507 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:33,880 Card game, it's a little card game. 508 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,440 That's the other side of botany, yeah. 509 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,920 But yeah, so it's like every time we have one of these lols, 510 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,920 when when the one game is done and been being manufactured or 511 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:44,840 whatever, we're not just going to sit around, we make another 512 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:46,000 game. So that's what happened. 513 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,280 So Lafleur started like like August of last year. 514 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,040 No, before that. Well, I mean, no, no, no like in 515 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,320 earnest, like 100% focused on Lafleur was like August of last 516 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,000 year. By then we already had like we 517 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,400 already had design ideas and some prototypes and art coming 518 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,440 together. But like, yeah, we sat down and 519 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:03,560 really started putting it together. 520 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:08,320 So it was ready by September or October to really start like the 521 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:10,880 the next the next level of play testing. 522 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:12,960 Like we have like all our internal play testing we do and 523 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:13,960 we think it's in a pretty good place. 524 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:15,600 And then we put it out in the world to see, like, what kinds 525 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:20,320 of problems do people run into? Plus also like, so we start off 526 00:24:20,360 --> 00:24:22,200 with, I mean, I'll show you where's my? 527 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,920 Well, we're on audio, so this is not a visual component, so. 528 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,400 We. Usually like write on our cards. 529 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:31,200 Oh yeah. Like. 530 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:35,480 Just a little writing thing. And then, like Dusty always is. 531 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,360 Like I'm like, hey, Amy's like, what do you think of this? 532 00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:39,320 And she's designed 300 cards for the game. 533 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,960 And I'm like, well, those are nice, but we haven't, we have 534 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,520 what's the gameplay? Yet like like playing with the 535 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,080 artwork? So the graphic design very much 536 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,800 drives the game too. And so if she has an idea, she's 537 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,560 like, here's the space you have to work with, what can you do 538 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,240 with this? And I'm like, OK, I got this. 539 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:56,400 We can do this. We can figure this. 540 00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,040 Out like so. So again, I want to back up, 541 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,360 tell us Lafleur is not out yet. Tell us a little bit, what about 542 00:25:04,360 --> 00:25:09,400 Lafleur, setting, gameplay mechanics kind of a little bit 543 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,480 about? So Lafleur is all about garden 544 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,200 parties, OK. And when we were making botany, 545 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,560 we kind of went back and forth on should the, you know, you're 546 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,640 putting stuff in your estate, you're bringing flowers to your 547 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,080 estate, You're, you're getting conservatories and orangeries, 548 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:24,680 people. Really wanted to build out their 549 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,680 gardens. More Yeah, we were thinking, OK, 550 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,160 well that doesn't really fit in botany. 551 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,720 Like we're going for like a light medium kind of game. 552 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,200 And that would be, you know, adding that level of complexity 553 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,920 would just mug like, like mud things up. 554 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,720 And so for Lafleur, they're like, OK, well, let's let's take 555 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:40,480 it. And now everything that 556 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,600 everything you're doing at the estate, you're doing it like, 557 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,160 like Amy wanted Rococo France. And in Rococo France, it was all 558 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,000 about like, you know, these beautiful expansive gardens, the 559 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:55,240 views, the water features, the, the, the architecture and of 560 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,160 course, what? And we're like, OK, but why, why 561 00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,040 are these people doing this? Well, they want to have garden 562 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,920 parties, of course. And so every turn, see how it's, 563 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:05,440 you know, people call it a worker placement game. 564 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:10,360 And again, it's kind of, I think it's more like the workers 565 00:26:10,360 --> 00:26:12,920 represent the actions you have. Cuz worker placement is all 566 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,000 about location scarcity and resource scarcity. 567 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,440 And that's not really Amy hates those games. 568 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,800 No, I don't like the she. Didn't like any blocked blocked. 569 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,480 Yeah, I don't like sure. Yeah, so you can go there, but 570 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,920 you just might not get the best. Yeah, so there's things don't 571 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:30,520 refresh it in the round, but yeah. 572 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,000 So, so you're going around Paris and you have artisans and, and 573 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,720 the artisans each have a unique ability related to 1 space on 574 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,400 the board. And so like that they, you know, 575 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,600 you place the particular artisan, like the the painter at 576 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,000 the flower market and, and she can do specific stuff. 577 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,880 And you go around and you you're getting flowers and using the 578 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,080 flowers to buy garden features and you put them in your garden. 579 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,400 They have some score to them, but they increase what you're 580 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:52,680 allured. So you have a little tracker 581 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,680 that's like how attractive active is your your Chateau for 582 00:26:55,680 --> 00:27:03,200 water and and pavs and vistas. And then while this is 583 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,440 happening, every round there are visitors coming to Paris and 584 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,560 each of them is going to go to the garden party like, like Miss 585 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,520 Enriette loves water features because she thinks the blue 586 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,120 complements her blue eyes, right. 587 00:27:14,360 --> 00:27:16,520 And so whoever has the prettiest water features, that's whose 588 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,280 party she's going to the end of the round, all the visitors go 589 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,040 to everybody's parties and they shower them with like prestige 590 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,720 and opportunity and, and victory points and all that stuff. 591 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,880 Flowers, more flowers, more coins. 592 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,160 And, and so you, it's everybody's jockeying every 593 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,440 round, everybody's jockeying to get the, to, to, to see who has 594 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:36,040 the prettiest garden in different aspects. 595 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,160 And see and based on the visitors that who can who can 596 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:39,880 attract those visitors and you're. 597 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:41,920 Constantly, like peering over the hedge. 598 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,000 Yeah, you're peering. The hedge is constantly looking 599 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,280 at what everybody else is doing. You're very concerned with like, 600 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,400 oh, Amy grabbed that, you know, the garden feature I was going 601 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,840 to get or, oh, I was going to get that flower. 602 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:54,560 And now I kind of figure something else out. 603 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:56,680 You can send special invitations to visitors. 604 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,720 And so, like, if two people are tied, the visitors can't decide 605 00:27:58,720 --> 00:27:59,760 where to go. So it is leave town. 606 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,320 But if you send them a special invitation with one of your, you 607 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,200 have one of your artisans go and give them an invitation, they'll 608 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:05,800 come to you. And so like, I was like, oh 609 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:07,440 gosh, I'm not gonna be able to beat Amy on this one. 610 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:08,960 We're tied. And then she puts her artisan on 611 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,480 the on the special invitation and gives it to the particular 612 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,000 visitor. And then I'm, I, I think I have, 613 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,880 I have made more curses and angry faces about these people 614 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,240 going to their garden features than I ever imagined possible. 615 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,000 But that's, yeah, that's the idea of Lafleur is it's, it's 616 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,080 basically you're, you're building, you're competing. 617 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,600 Everybody's jockeying for position to see who, when these 618 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:30,440 visitors will come to their garden party. 619 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,280 And then if you, if you win, go ahead. 620 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,240 I was going to say, if you win, you get to host the biggest 621 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,800 garden party of all, the Grand Soiree, which is a very fancy 622 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,520 ending. I was going to say why we chose 623 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:47,160 Rococo France. Well, one, I love the flower 624 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,280 artist Pierre Joseph Redoute, and so he. 625 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:51,960 Guy is number one. She came to me. 626 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:53,080 She's like, this Guy has so much art. 627 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:54,360 We have to make a game all about him. 628 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,640 Some of. His flowers are in botany and I. 629 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,320 Just love really, OK. Yeah, so I love his artwork so 630 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,440 much. I was like, and he's the right 631 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:08,560 time period. He actually did work for Marie 632 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,240 Antoinette and also. A bunch of other famous. 633 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:17,240 Yeah, like really famous. People and so I was like, we 634 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,440 should include this. And then also I was an art 635 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:24,560 history minor in college. And so that's why I love like 636 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,920 the rococo over the top. And you know, I love gold. 637 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:29,320 To gold? Yeah, gold. 638 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,840 To everything gold. For everything, yeah, we need 639 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,200 the gold, the over the top, the pastel colors. 640 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:40,560 And so that's why. So again, when we make stuff, 641 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,840 it's very much based on Amy's whimsy, like what she's thinking 642 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,920 about and what she wants to do and where the designs go. 643 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,720 And then we'll be sitting there. We have this concept of the 644 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,720 superfan, which is, which is how we how we know like what 645 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,560 pictures to take and show and what to market and where. 646 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,840 And our superfan is this is this girl, Mary, who is very much 647 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:04,120 just like Amy's best friend. And and so we'll sit there and 648 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,240 be, I'll be arguing about McCann like I think this should happen 649 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:07,800 this way. Amy's like that's how it would 650 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,440 happen in Warhammer. No, Mary wouldn't like that. 651 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:11,840 And I'm like, ah, yes, that's right. 652 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,000 Mary would not like this. That's all I have to say now. 653 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:14,320 We. Yeah. 654 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,040 And as soon as she says that, then I I'm like, OK, you know, 655 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:18,720 that's a good point. We need to work another way 656 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:20,160 around this. We need to come up with a way to 657 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:21,360 make this simpler. Yeah. 658 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,680 And also so botany is more light strategy. 659 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,560 It's an introduction to strategy like it's. 660 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,960 Not heavy, it's. It's supposed to be fun like. 661 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,720 Yeah, I just say that is that is definitely true. 662 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:39,120 However, however it can, there's it can trying to travel around 663 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:43,200 the world efficiently based on the 454 cards in your hand. 664 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,520 Yeah. I mean, you're true. 665 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,560 It it's it's challenging and then you throw the event cards 666 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,640 into the mix. So I want to ask you, Amy, have 667 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:57,400 you played Rococo? I have not, but OK, So I 668 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:02,320 believe, I believe based on your description of the floor and 669 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,800 based on my experience with botany, I would say that the 670 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,640 floor would be an excellent compliment to. 671 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,400 Roco. So in Rococo, you're a designer 672 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,600 designing the fashions for the people that will be attending 673 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,280 the garden party. That's what you have to do. 674 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,880 So, so we used to, we never, we never actually did this, but we 675 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,480 used to dream that if you were playing Fantasy Flight Star Wars 676 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,680 games, you start with Rebellion and every time you have a fight 677 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,600 at a planet, you have to play a game of Armada. 678 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,080 And every time you play a game of Armada and you have a, you 679 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,360 have a, you have a starfighter battle, you got to play a game 680 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,280 of X wing. And so you go down to X wing, 681 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,160 then you come back up to Armada. Then you finish the Armada game, 682 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,080 you go back up to Rebellion. And this game lasts for like 6 683 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:44,760 months. And So what you could do is at 684 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:46,000 more. Like a year. 685 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,920 Yeah, exactly. At the end of every round for 686 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,600 Lafleur, every at the end of every round of a floor before 687 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,800 the garden party, you have to play a game of Roco Co. 688 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:55,800 There you go to. Get. 689 00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,680 Your attention. OK, I would think you play Roco 690 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,720 Co to get your get your outfit together, then play Lafleur and 691 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,240 that'll be like the other side of the story. 692 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,880 Exactly who Are you ready? For the party. 693 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:10,840 Who knows? Who knows? 694 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:14,600 So I wanted to ask you about. I have a lot of notes. 695 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,040 Yeah, you, yeah, I'm, I'm scribbling while you were 696 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:18,600 talking. So. 697 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,920 And for our listeners, go back to episode 41, where Gary and I 698 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:27,040 talk about Rococo the entire episode because it's a. 699 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:28,280 Favorite. I have to go listen to that one. 700 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:32,240 Yeah, it's, it's really good. It's the art is done by Ian 701 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,760 O'Toole, who normally partners with Vital Lacerto, but this 702 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:37,400 game was not designed by Lacerto. 703 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,880 So it has a look. It is the look, but it is 704 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:45,080 beautiful. Huge, huge table presence and I 705 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:46,360 think it's going to be a good compliment. 706 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:50,680 I'm looking forward to playing a game of Rococo alongside the 707 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:52,440 floor when? Because we. 708 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:54,720 We did back it and we are looking. 709 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,760 Forward to coming. And getting that, getting that 710 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,640 orchids expansion, My wife is crazy for orchids. 711 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,680 She's got some up in the window that she's been growing for the 712 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,600 past two years, so she's really excited. 713 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,360 As the Orchid expansion is super fun, like, you know, I'm biased, 714 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:13,840 it's my game, but man, it's so it's so fun that if we had 715 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:15,920 thought about it when botany started, I don't know if we 716 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:17,440 might have found a way to like get it in. 717 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,080 I mean, it's it's a lot of extra cards. 718 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,480 So but so the orchid expansion, it's pretty simple. 719 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,640 It just adds a whole face up deck that anybody can grab while 720 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:28,960 you're moving around. And so because what would happen 721 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,280 back then is somebody would like a magazine would publish about 722 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,400 this particular orchid like in South America. 723 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,920 And all the plant hunters would, it would be like a craze. 724 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:37,600 And all the plant hunters would rush there to be the first 725 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,440 person to to find this this specimen and bring it back to 726 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,160 their Conservatory. And so we had these. 727 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,200 So you play, it's like a face up board next to bot, next to the 728 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:50,680 botany board and whatever space up there, anyone can snag it and 729 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,040 it it ends up actually. You change your route. 730 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,480 You change your routes because of what pops and and you think 731 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,200 you have a plan and then somebody moves away. 732 00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,520 You didn't expect them to and they grab it instead. 733 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,040 It's very, it's actually very inspired by Lafleur too, because 734 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:04,960 it's the same kind of thing where you're like all of a 735 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,320 sudden very concerned with who's going to grab this thing before 736 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:13,080 I manage to get it like. So let me ask you, now that 737 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:18,120 you've completed your second kick Kickstarter project, talk 738 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,520 for a minute because last week's episode Gareth and I talked 739 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:26,239 about crowdfunding games in general, why or why not to back. 740 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,679 And we talked about the challenges that designers face 741 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:32,960 deciding to do a project on Crown. 742 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,080 Can you talk just for a minute or two about some of the 743 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,600 challenges that you faced when you decided to, particularly 744 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:40,360 with botany? Because I'm sure you learned a 745 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,639 lot of lessons for the floor about, OK, we've got a game, 746 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,320 we're gonna go to Kickstarter. Why Kickstarter over game found 747 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,560 or other platforms? Why not go straight to a 748 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:52,600 publisher? Like can you talk about that 749 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,880 just for a minute? Really, we didn't know much 750 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,840 about publishers. We had no idea that people 751 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,520 designed games and sold them to publishers and and. 752 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,280 Like we just assumed. And I sound so ignorant when I 753 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,560 say that we are very experienced business people for, you know, 754 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:08,440 for years we run around our own businesses. 755 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,040 Also, that's why too because we no business. 756 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,440 It never, it never. So like I, you know, when I look 757 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,360 at all the games on our shelf, I assumed that every person whose 758 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,600 name was on that game worked at the company that made the game. 759 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,040 Oh, I had no idea until we started listening to Board Game 760 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,840 Design Lab and that was after Botany's campaign that that that 761 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,320 was the case. So never occurred to us not to 762 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:35,320 make the game ourselves ever. And, and then we, so we started, 763 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,800 you know, I mean, step one, I was like, well, how much do 764 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,120 these things cost? And so we found our manufacturer 765 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,120 Step 2. You know, I, I literally googled 766 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:44,920 how to Kickstarter. I had no idea. 767 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:49,040 Amy's brother is a indie game developer and he made a video 768 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,960 game back in 2014 and, and did it on Kickstarter and he made 769 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,400 $27,000 and it blew our minds wide open. 770 00:35:54,720 --> 00:35:57,280 And I was like, okay, manufacturing is expensive. 771 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,600 Well, how do we get, you know, how do we, how do we get our 772 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,320 name out there? How do we get some hype built 773 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:03,360 up? And Kickstarter. 774 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,360 Kickstarter is a place we could go to do that. 775 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:07,920 I don't even think we knew about no. 776 00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:09,600 You probably back some other games. 777 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,080 Dusty likes backing games. Yeah, I mean. 778 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,840 We had backed like maybe 10 games in the time before Ohh 779 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:16,960 game Found. I hadn't backed anything on game 780 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:18,520 Found prior to that. I only backed stuff on 781 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:22,760 Kickstarter. And so we were very much just 782 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:24,600 like, go to our local game store, see a game. 783 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:26,720 I wasn't really following stuff online that much. 784 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,840 And so when we back stuff on Kickstarter was because like 785 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,520 Amy's brother came to me and he's like, hey, Binding of Isaac 786 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:34,440 4 Souls is one of my favorite games of all time. 787 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:36,960 And he's like, hey, Binding of Isis has an expansion. 788 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:38,200 You can go, you know, go get it here. 789 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,040 I'm like, OK, cool. So and then then when we started 790 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:43,680 looking into stuff, we're like, oh, Kickstarter's the one. 791 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,440 But as we got in farther, people like, oh, have you considered 792 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,760 game found? Well, if you look at game found 793 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,760 and you look at Kickstarter, there's lots of game found ish 794 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:56,760 games on Kickstarter. But game found has a target 795 00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:58,400 audience that is very identifiable. 796 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,920 It's lots of bigger heavier games, hardcore games in the 797 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,160 hobby. And so the kind of cross sell 798 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,760 you're going to get there is very much tied to those games. 799 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,000 So if I was launching, if I was launching the next Gloom Haven 800 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:12,840 and somebody was like, hey, you should consider game found. 801 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:14,960 I would genuinely consider game found cuz there's lots. 802 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,080 I mean I back big games on game found. 803 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:21,080 And a lot of our target audience, I feel like one, they 804 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:22,280 don't even know what Kickstarter. 805 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,440 We had 20% of our backers were first time backers to 806 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,000 Kickstarter. It was so many people, it was so 807 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,760 many first time backers that people from Kickstarter were 808 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,240 contacting us to find out what we did so. 809 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,720 Let's contextualize those numbers for our listeners for 810 00:37:35,720 --> 00:37:38,520 just a second. You said 20% of your backers, so 811 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:44,600 there were just over 15,000 backers for Botany and 20% of 812 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:49,040 that were first time. Back had never yeah, 3000 / 3000 813 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,520 had never, never been. Huge, but that is huge. 814 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,040 And so like so like trying to explain to them what game found 815 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,040 is would be like a non starter. A lot of our folks were like, 816 00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,520 oh, I backed a Kickstarter once. And it was like. 817 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:00,280 A knife. Yeah. 818 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,920 And it, yeah, it was, yeah. Bird feeder. 819 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,240 Bird feeder or, and or like, oh, I think I've heard of 820 00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:07,440 Kickstarter before. OK, I can sign up for this. 821 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,080 And so there's an element depending on who your target 822 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,480 market is, there's an element of of like having to educate them 823 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:14,880 on a platform they've never used before. 824 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:16,360 And so you need a level of trust there. 825 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,680 And I think if we had gone on game found, First off, we 826 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:20,160 wouldn't have had the cross sell that we had. 827 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,760 Second off, we wouldn't have had as many first time backers 828 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:23,920 because they never heard of before. 829 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:28,440 Percent of our people are women. 85, yeah, 85 percent, 85% of our 830 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:33,280 customers, give or take a few percentage points are women and 831 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:35,520 the board game industry is the opposite. 832 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,080 It's like 80% men. And so we're working in a, we're 833 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:40,800 working in a niche and a niche there. 834 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,960 And Kickstarter has much higher adoption rate amongst women. 835 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,440 And so demographically like it made it would make more sense. 836 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,600 But this is all stuff we learned after the fact in the very 837 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,080 beginning. It was just, oh, Kickstarter is 838 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:54,480 Kickstarter. We will Kickstarter. 839 00:38:55,720 --> 00:38:59,240 That's how technical it was. And then and then the idea was. 840 00:38:59,240 --> 00:39:00,120 We found launch. Boom. 841 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,000 We found Launch Boom and that helped us, you know, because 842 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:03,720 nobody's going to. It's very rare. 843 00:39:03,720 --> 00:39:05,680 Like I try, I tell people Botany was not viral. 844 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,960 Lafleur was not viral. People are not going to buy your 845 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,160 product if they don't know your product exists. 846 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,960 And so we found Launch Boom and they helped us figure out our 847 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:14,600 advertising plan and get the game out there. 848 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:16,920 And we were amazed that so many people, even before the 849 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,960 campaign, were interested in it. And so we're feeling pretty 850 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:21,280 confident that we do fairly well. 851 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,360 Like we make enough to pay back the money we spend on 852 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:24,480 advertising. We make enough to hit our 853 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,440 minimum work on the manufacturer and have enough leftover to sell 854 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:29,160 to people. Can you imagine if we even made 855 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,640 like 300,000? That would be like. 856 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:33,880 I was like I said, and I said to her, I was like, it's not going 857 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,440 to happen, don't worry about it. It's not a big deal like we. 858 00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:39,160 Don't. Know slow and steady, yeah, slow 859 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,560 and steady wins the race and we'll and we're no matter what 860 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,000 comes we will have a plan that fits, you know, fits all these 861 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:49,840 options, yeah. So let let me ask No, go ahead. 862 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:54,240 I was going to say, and we never even really thought about retail 863 00:39:54,240 --> 00:39:55,680 either. Like what are we? 864 00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:57,760 I had no retail plan, no retail plan. 865 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:02,520 On Kickstarter we found. Age contrived Bella's intent. 866 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:04,680 They were working, they had a they were working with Golden 867 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:08,600 Goose and and we met the guys from Golden Goose and their 868 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:10,800 whole deal is that they do they help you do logistics. 869 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:11,880 So that was a big one for us with. 870 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,160 Shipping. Shipping is Shipping is the most 871 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,200 dangerous part of Kickstarter. I mean, gosh, you can, you can 872 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,240 go to the Internet today and see stories about companies that 873 00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:22,600 have gotten nailed by shipping and it you know, and that was 874 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,240 the, that was the win or lose point, like turning point on 875 00:40:25,240 --> 00:40:27,120 their campaign. Dusty probably spent more time 876 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:28,600 on shipping. Than anything else. 877 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:30,520 I still spend more time. I had a meeting about shipping 878 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:32,320 today. I spend, I spend so much time on 879 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:33,600 it. It's so dangerous, it's so 880 00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,120 difficult. We saw botany in 89 countries 881 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,600 and then if we had to figure out how to get that to 89 countries. 882 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,920 And so, yeah, so figured out shipping, we figured all that 883 00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:44,160 stuff. Golden Goose helped us figure 884 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:45,640 out sales. They and you know, they got us, 885 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:47,960 they're the ones that got know like knew the folks at Barnes 886 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,040 and Noble to even get us seen by them in the 1st place, still had 887 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:52,760 to win it. But you know, to get seen. 888 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,480 And it's so difficult to be seen in, in the, in the era where 889 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,600 there's 5000 board games being released every year. 890 00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:02,000 And yeah. And so it just started to, once 891 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,120 the Kickstarter happened and everybody started paying 892 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:07,040 attention to how, how many people were interested in buying 893 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:12,120 because that's the key is, is it like we didn't know I was going 894 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:13,000 to like we had to get it out there. 895 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,480 We had to get it seen. Once it got seen, then we're 896 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:17,280 like, Oh my gosh, people actually like this. 897 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:19,200 Wow. That's we were OK, that's cool. 898 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,200 That's really exciting. People like it now. 899 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:22,640 What? Like, oh God, what do we do now? 900 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:27,080 Well, and also whenever we were designing the box, at first we 901 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,280 tried different things and I'm like, that's not what I was 902 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,520 envisioning. And so I ended up designing the 903 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:35,920 box and like, people are like, I love the box. 904 00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:41,520 No, it's gorgeous. It's like, it's not like most 905 00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:42,720 other board game. Box, Amy said. 906 00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:44,880 I want, I was envisioning every other board game box we have 907 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,160 that has like crazy art and explosions and all this stuff 908 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,240 and Amy's like, or a scene Amy's like. 909 00:41:49,240 --> 00:41:51,040 I wanted to. I wanted to look like one of my 910 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,440 Victorian books. No, you succeeded at that. 911 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:58,480 I think the construction, it's, it's it's thick and sturdy. 912 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,480 My cat could sit in it and it wouldn't break. 913 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:03,920 We get so many pictures of cats sitting in that box. 914 00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:04,840 They really like it. Yeah. 915 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,320 I also love the attention to detail. 916 00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:11,200 You've got an an old map of London on the inside of the box. 917 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:13,800 Yeah, Amy loves those maps. So do you ever? 918 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,200 Lift up the tray out of outside of. 919 00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:18,480 You know. There's stuff under the tray. 920 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:22,560 Is there really? Don't tell me that I I hate when 921 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:26,360 and designers do that. Oh my goodness. 922 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,360 It cost like it cost, it barely cost anything more. 923 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:31,400 And so we were like, I don't be a surprise for anybody to list 924 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:32,560 it out. For those of you who are 925 00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:35,680 listening, I am lifting up my box right now. 926 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,400 Oh, look at that. Look at that. 927 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:43,160 Yep, I'm looking at artwork of herbaceous flowering plants. 928 00:42:43,720 --> 00:42:48,560 Oh look man, you guys. We like those little details we 929 00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:50,440 want. We wanted to feel like a premium 930 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,360 experience for people. In the back of the. 931 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:56,000 Board. The back of the game board also 932 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,560 has flowers all on the back. Of it I'm like. 933 00:42:59,720 --> 00:43:02,440 Why have it just black when you can put flowers on it? 934 00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:04,960 Absolutely. So Amy and I, so these little 935 00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:08,560 details Amy and I fought so much about, specifically the foil. 936 00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,400 Oh yes, the gold foil. When I say fought, my mom calls 937 00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,040 us Co combative. We have even since we were 14. 938 00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,640 We're running around the house arguing about this or that, and 939 00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,200 neither of us is afraid to express our opinion to the 940 00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:21,440 other. Passionate about. 941 00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:22,880 It yeah, very passionate about these things. 942 00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,200 And so we were gold foil is expensive, arguing about this 943 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:28,640 gold foil and I was like, nobody's gonna care. 944 00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,280 This is ridiculous. It's so expensive and Amy's 945 00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:32,960 like, I don't care what you think. 946 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,400 I don't care what we do for the rest of our lives. 947 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,080 I want this gold foil on this box. 948 00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:43,840 And I was like, fine, whatever. You know, as as I as I do and as 949 00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:47,440 Amy does, I realized that when when she's pretty and she bats 950 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:49,040 her eyes at me that she's gonna win. 951 00:43:49,240 --> 00:43:51,200 And I said, fine, you can have the gold foil. 952 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:53,320 We can make it fit. You know, again, all business 953 00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:55,840 like it fits within our cost of goods sold to make all the all 954 00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:57,480 the do all the sales and everything we need to do. 955 00:43:57,720 --> 00:44:00,040 You can have it. So the day we post on 956 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,520 Kickstarter, the stretch goal gold foil. 957 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:06,800 On the box. I'm talking e-mail after e-mail 958 00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,520 and comment after comment. Oh my gosh. 959 00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:13,200 One girl emailed us and she said when we saw that we hit the 960 00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:16,280 stretch goal for the gold foil. I'm like, we, she's doing this 961 00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:19,440 with multiple people. She goes, she goes, my mom and I 962 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:23,080 screamed and I turned around and I said, I'm sorry. 963 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:26,800 You were right, Amy. The the this is how you make the 964 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,720 girls scream gold foil nerd like me. 965 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:31,720 I don't get it. Foil like I I never would have 966 00:44:31,720 --> 00:44:33,600 done that. And we got the gold foil on the 967 00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:35,600 floor, too. Yeah, and the gold foil wasn't? 968 00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,040 Even a SO. Wasn't even a discussion, it was 969 00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,720 instant gold foil. Of course you can have that gold 970 00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:42,120 foil on war. In the pose box. 971 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:44,480 We're making a tiny little box. The gold foil's gonna be 972 00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:46,400 expensive. Amy's like the box for war. 973 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:49,040 The Posey's will have gold foil. And I said the box of the gold 974 00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:50,600 war. The Posey's will have gold foil. 975 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:52,640 Yeah, of course. I love it. 976 00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:54,680 I'd be surprised if we ever make a game that doesn't have gold 977 00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:55,640 foil on the box. I would. 978 00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,680 Be very surprised too. That's that is fantastic. 979 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:01,120 I love it. Gold foil. 980 00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:03,960 That's how it works. Star signature. 981 00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:04,400 Yeah. So it's. 982 00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,000 The shiny thing that catches people's attention. 983 00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,440 When it catches Amy's attention. Oh, shiny. 984 00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:13,200 If if you don't have gold foil on this box, it'll change 985 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:15,680 everything. Yeah, it really will. 986 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:17,320 It looks like the old books the old. 987 00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:19,320 All those old books had gold foil detail on the. 988 00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:23,360 Front end and the raised. The raised lettering makes a 989 00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:25,080 difference. You totally made Amy's day by 990 00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:27,440 noticing that. No, that's. 991 00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:29,880 I love that. I love that. 992 00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,160 So thank you. So I'm gonna close out our 993 00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:37,440 episode with a new segment that we haven't come up with a name 994 00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:39,360 for. So if you listen to the last two 995 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:42,440 episodes, you've heard this. I am going to do a voice over 996 00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:47,600 from a rule book and I'm going to read the introduction and 997 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,520 we're trying to figure out if how we're going to do this. 998 00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,960 I think this last week's episode, it's like you have to 999 00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,800 guess what it is and messages. Gareth and I are going back and 1000 00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:02,160 forth on the formula, but it'll be an obvious one, obvious which 1001 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,680 game I picked. So I'm going to do that real 1002 00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:07,920 quickly. Players assume the roles of 1003 00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:11,720 Victorian era plant hunters traveling the world in search of 1004 00:46:11,720 --> 00:46:16,680 fame, fortune and the coveted Queens Prize in botany. 1005 00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,320 As they travel the globe to collect specimens, the players 1006 00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:23,560 will need to manage their expedition funds, experience 1007 00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,960 thrilling events, and acquire support for their journeys. 1008 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,320 Whenever a player returns to their estate, they will add new 1009 00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:34,080 specimens to their collection and build new garden features 1010 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:37,640 such as orangeries and conservatories. 1011 00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:40,600 The player with the most points at the end of the game will earn 1012 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,480 the Queen's Prize in Botany and be declared the winner. 1013 00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:47,360 We obviously know what game that is. 1014 00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,080 I don't know, I'm still trying. It feels like it's on the tip of 1015 00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:54,000 my tongue. But I, I thought it was 1016 00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,360 appropriate. Garrett's not here to guess, 1017 00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:58,440 guess the voice over or whatever. 1018 00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,040 It's a little, it's a new segment we're working on, but I 1019 00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,320 thought it would be good to do a voiceover of the intro of your 1020 00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:05,840 book. Yeah, You know what, we need to 1021 00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,240 get you to do that voiceover for us, for our advertising. 1022 00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:11,840 I'm a very radio ads. I'm going to start running local 1023 00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:15,320 radio ads. You said you like contract work 1024 00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,920 and contract workers. I'm happy to be a contract 1025 00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:18,760 worker. Yeah, right. 1026 00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,920 Yeah. I also want to say, while I've 1027 00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:28,320 got the rule book out, the linen finish and the weight of the 1028 00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:34,320 paper, the quality of the rule book is, I mean, it's second to 1029 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:35,760 none. Thank you. 1030 00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:42,840 So I love quality things. I'm like, I mean, the Victorian 1031 00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:46,160 era, it was all about like quality like. 1032 00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:50,160 So the pre production copy for Lafleur showed up last week. 1033 00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:51,960 And like it doesn't have. Linen. 1034 00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:53,240 And we knew it didn't have linen. 1035 00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:55,640 It doesn't have linen. We use panda Panda game 1036 00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:57,280 manufacturing. They make wingspan, they make 1037 00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:59,080 the scythe, they make all stone Meyers games they make. 1038 00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:01,040 I'm pretty sure they make a bunch of pandemic stuff. 1039 00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,360 They do a really great job and they. 1040 00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:07,600 Forgot to do my linen. Finish yeah, so Cardner our girl 1041 00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,040 from from Panda emails us. She's like, hey, just so you 1042 00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:12,680 know, the the pre production copies on the way, but the 1043 00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:14,480 factory forgot to put the linen on it. 1044 00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:15,960 But you know what the linen looks like so that's OK. 1045 00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:17,760 It gets here. Amy looks at it and she goes, 1046 00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:19,440 I'm like these look great. And she's like, I can't 1047 00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:23,080 photograph these. They have no linen on them, you 1048 00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:25,680 know, like. That's a huge part of it because 1049 00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,760 we are trying to take as content creators, we take pictures of 1050 00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:32,880 your box, your components, your board, your, your rule book. 1051 00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:37,120 And that glossy paper reflects the light Then yeah, you know, 1052 00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:40,760 we all can't afford big fancy studios and everything like 1053 00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:43,240 that. And so this is just amazing. 1054 00:48:43,240 --> 00:48:46,760 This is fantastic. And kudos for getting game trays 1055 00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:50,760 to to work with them because they make beautiful trays and 1056 00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,160 inserts. Your insert is fantastic. 1057 00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:55,040 Thank you. I love a good insert. 1058 00:48:55,160 --> 00:49:00,320 Our first guest on this show was Richard, the CEO of Folded 1059 00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:01,640 Space. Oh, that's cool. 1060 00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:05,200 Before we had any designers on, we talked to a man who makes a 1061 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,600 living making inserts, so thank you for that so much. 1062 00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:11,720 Yeah, I I'm a fan of a good. I don't like when I open a box 1063 00:49:11,720 --> 00:49:13,880 and everything's just tumbling all around inside of it. 1064 00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:19,720 And so, yeah, I was, absolutely. So Amy and Dusty, thank you so 1065 00:49:19,720 --> 00:49:23,360 much for joining me on our on our episode and talk about your 1066 00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:24,640 games. I'm really glad you get the 1067 00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,600 floor to the table. I cannot express my gratitude to 1068 00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:28,720 you enough. Thank you so much. 1069 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:30,680 Yeah, thank you. Thank you for having us join. 1070 00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:34,440 It's a lot of fun for us. It's still a little surreal. 1071 00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:38,400 I appreciate that and everybody, Gareth will be back. 1072 00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:41,880 The week after this will be our Gen. 1073 00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:43,800 Con recap, because I will be a Gen. 1074 00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,720 Con for one day. Sunday only guys. 1075 00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:47,680 So we're gonna. Be there. 1076 00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:50,200 We're flying out Sunday morning. That's yeah. 1077 00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:54,240 Yep, be on the lookout. We'll be there Sunday and then 1078 00:49:54,240 --> 00:49:57,320 we'll do our recap and then we've got a few more things 1079 00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:00,320 planned in August as we creep towards Episode 100. 1080 00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:02,080 Congratulations, that's exciting. 1081 00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:03,320 Congrats. Thank you. 1082 00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:06,600 Thank you so much. Thanks everyone for listening. 1083 00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:09,920 Please subscribe and as always, we'd love to hear your thoughts 1084 00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:13,440 and ideas, so make sure to leave those in the comments. 1085 00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:17,600 And don't forget you can also chat with us both on Instagram 1086 00:50:17,720 --> 00:50:19,320 at Meeple the Meeple.