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Hey friends, and welcome to 
episode 155 of Meeple. 

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To Meeple. 
It is a true dozen episode 

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number 12 in my content creator 
community series. 

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Guys, thanks for joining and on 
this journey with me. 

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It's been a wild ride so far. 
My guest today is a dear friend 

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who I've known for several 
years, who I think it's safe to 

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say has seen me at my best but 
has also seen me at my absolute 

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worst. 
He has seen me at my top of joy 

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and emotional meltdowns, so this
is going to be a great 

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conversation. 
In his social media, he 

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showcases new titles and is 
constantly reviewing new games. 

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I can't keep up with all the 
games that he's reviewing, and 

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he has managed to curate a 
community of inclusivity of 

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every publisher around. 
He, more than anyone, has his 

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finger on the pulse of this 
industry, and we're going to dig

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into how he has built that kind 
of engagement with publishers 

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and designers and what it takes 
to create content that actually 

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connects people and why 
Community isn't just a buzzword,

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it's the entire game at the 
table. 

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So settle in. 
Let's jump into it. 

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It's Jerry from Tabletop 
Worldwide. 

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Jerry, thanks for joining. 
How are you? 

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Great. 
Thanks and happy New Year. 

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Yes, Happy New Year to you as 
well. 

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Oh yeah, today is 12th night. 
It is January 6th if you're 

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listening to this. 
On the day that it drops, that 

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means that Christmas is over and
Mardi Gras will begin. 

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So. 
So what's been going on with you

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lately? 
You know the holidays are pretty

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much to an end. 2025 is finally 
behind us. 

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Yeah, it's, it's one of those 
things where either a vacation 

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from your vacation, right. 
That's been a lot of a lot of 

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fun, friends and family and and 
games, which is always, always 

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fun. 
Yeah, it's, you know, we're 

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trying to get back into the 
swing of things now with the new

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year, and so far so good. 
So taking a take a quick look 

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back, taking a look back, how 
has 2025, you know, we had a lot

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of fears like in the middle of 
it, right? 

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What was going to go on trades 
and tariffs and there's not 

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going to be games and people 
lost their jobs and so much, you

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know, all this. 
Yeah. 

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Would you, how would you rate 
2025 in terms of the industry, 

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right? 
Well, it was tough. 

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It was really tough, you know, 
unfortunately a few didn't 

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survive it. 
And you know, I'm not sure that 

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we'll know the full impact of it
for for quite some time. 

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It's sad to see some publishers 
that go by the wayside and 

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through no fault of their own, 
nothing they did wrong, you 

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know, and yet, you know, they 
have to to deal with the 

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circumstances. 
That's, that's truly terrible. 

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On the other side, we, we had 
some really good things happen. 

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We had, you know, a lot of new, 
new games come out. 

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We have new publishers that are 
popping up all the time. 

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So I, I like to try to, to 
balance them some good thoughts 

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with the bad. 
It was a rough time, but for me 

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personally, it was my first time
ever going to PAX Unplugged. 

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So that was a great new 
experience. 

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Hey, there you go. 
Yeah, so you have bad, but yeah.

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You hit the trifecta this year, 
right? 

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Origins, Gen. 
Con and PAX Unplugged. 

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Yeah, this was my first year 
getting to do all three and I 

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would love to be able to do 
that. 

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The good thing about Origins and
Gen. 

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Con is even though I live all 
the way down in Atlanta, they 

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are just on the edge of what I'm
comfortable driving to. 

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So I can drive to Origins, I can
drive to to Gen. 

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Con packs I have to fly to. 
There's no way I'm driving 1416 

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hours, whatever it is to get to 
Philadelphia from Atlanta. 

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So I don't know if I'll be able 
to do that every year just 

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because of the extra expense, 
but hopefully because man, being

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able to hit the trifecta in one 
year was just. 

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I think I can still see you're 
on that high coming. 

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You're still on it. 
Well, it's really great because 

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you know, if for a number of 
reasons, number one, you know, 

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we're going to talk a lot about 
community today and that is 

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those three big cons. 
There's a lot of smaller cons 

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that I attend as well. 
I mean, you and I have both been

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to Tennessee game days. 
I'm a few times and you know, I 

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go to tantrum con and a few 
other things. 

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But but the big ones are always 
great because that is where you 

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get to see so many of the people
that mostly you only get to talk

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to online. 
You know, you're, you're, you're

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on, you know, chatting with them
or sending texts or or whatever.

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But you know, being face to 
face, you know, across the table

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from them playing game or just 
getting a Big Bear hug from PJ, 

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whatever it is that it makes the
whole thing, they're just super 

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extra special. 
I think my highlight of our 

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2025, we, we saw each other 
Tennessee game days. 

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We saw each other at Origins and
at Gen. 

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Con. 
I think it was that that Skull 

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King tournament at Gen. 
Con on that Friday morning. 

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Yeah. 
That was correct. 

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They split us up into two groups
of eight, right? 

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Because it's a Max player of 
eight and you and I couldn't sit

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any further away from. 
Me. 

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It's just kind of like, hey, 
Jerry. 

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I was wondering if you planned 
it that way? 

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That's not, that's not how it 
worked. 

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It was really funny, the look on
your face when you realize what 

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I was doing because I couldn't 
hear the rules and I didn't 

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quite understand. 
I mean, I knew it was a trick 

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ticking game. 
I understood that. 

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I had decided that the only way 
for me to learn to play was to 

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just absolutely throw it and 
lose the game. 

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And the look on your face until 
you realize what I was doing, 

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you're like, what are you? 
Because that's so. 

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And I'm like, I'm not trying to 
signal. 

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You down the table. 
Wait. 

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No feature? 
No. 

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That was a fantastic thing. 
Is is if you had, you know, one 

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of the strategies in that game 
is that you can lose on purpose 

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to gain more points. 
And if you had done that, you 

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probably would have won the 
whole thing. 

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So what you're telling me is, is
that I did a terrible job at 

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losing is? 
Well, no, you did a fantastic 

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job at losing, but that just 
made you a. 

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Winner is what I I didn't lose 
enough. 

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Hey, Speaking of games, let me 
ask you. 

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This is the question I start all
these episodes with and I 

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honestly don't think I know 
this. 

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I don't think you and I have 
ever shared this. 

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What was the first game you ever
played as a kid? 

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As a kid, let's see not but I 
was on the original game of 

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chess. 
Oh yeah, that was that was 3032,

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hundred years ago, right? 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

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I'm pretty sure 3200 though, 
don't you? 

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You look great, we have to talk 
about your skin routine after. 

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That no, I'm trying to think my 
my parents had some of the 

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classics, you know, that we had,
we had monopoly. 

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We had sorry, we had all of the 
the old school classics that you

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probably couldn't pay me to play
now. 

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Yeah. 
Which, hey, look, if you're a 

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person that likes those games, 
no, no, you know, no insulting. 

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Absolutely. 
I just, I have played those 

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games specifically because 
they're all we had growing UPS 

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so many times. 
And now I know it's out there 

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now. 
So it's like I, I can't even. 

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But yeah, I think, you know, 
back when I was a kid, probably 

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a lot of those classics like 
Boggle was one that we played a 

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lot because my mom loved word 
games. 

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All right, Yeah. 
So yeah, a lot of that. 

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And we played a lot of card 
games too, rummy and stuff like 

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that. 
So yeah, that's kind of how I 

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grew up. 
So trick taking games just come 

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naturally to you. 
Honestly, spades. 

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When we learn spades, holy moly.
We played spades like there was 

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no other game on earth. 
And if we didn't play 20 times a

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day, we might starve. 
You know, we, we played spades 

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like crazy people, I think. 
And we would have people over 

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and we would have like little 
mini tournaments of spades. 

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And yeah, that game was yeah, 
yeah. 

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So I did a lot of trick taking, 
growing. 

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Up so good and there's been a 
trend. 

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I know you know, this been a 
trend of a lot of trick taking 

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games lately. 
I really have. 

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Yeah, and you know, and a lot of
what I never thought would have 

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even been possible in 
cooperative trip taking games, 

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right, Which I, I, I couldn't 
have even like when I first 

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heard of like the Crew and, and 
there's probably ones before 

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that, but that was the big one 
that first caught my attention 

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anyway, as far as cooperative 
trip taking goes. 

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And I thought, how in the world 
can you cooperatively take? 

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Like I didn't even understood 
how that was. 

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I know, but man, did it work, 
right. 

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Like the crew, we had the best 
show and there's been so many 

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since then. 
I mean, most recently for me, 

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the office dog game, The Lord of
the Rings trip taking game. 

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Yep. 
So good. 

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Yes. 
So you're actually playing a 

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cooperative trick taking story. 
Yes. 

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Which is yeah, amazing. 
So good. 

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Love office dog. 
You and I, you and I were 

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talking about that at Tennessee 
game days. 

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You were telling me about the 
game and then because of the 

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local game group that I have 
here in Springfield, either 

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don't like or don't want to play
Trick Taker. 

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So it was kind of I couldn't 
play it. 

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I will tell you this though, I 
did get a chance to play it when

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I was in Anna. 
I was in Anaheim the end of 

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August and I got to get together
with Jen and Raleigh, bored for 

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two, and we went to a local 
board game Cafe. 

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Nice. 
So shout out to them and they 

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brought along the Lord of the 
Rings trick take to that game. 

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Isn't it good? 
It's so good, so good. 

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Right. 
And so now the new one that I 

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guess the 2nd chapter, yeah, the
two towers one, I just, I want 

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to play the whole thing. 
Why can't they just release them

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all at once? 
I want to play the whole thing. 

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I know, but to see that's how 
they get you, Jerry. 

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I know, I know. 
You're right. 

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And they and they do. 
I mean, I am. 

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I am totally got. 
So do you have you got a 

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favorite player color I. 
Always play green now and it 

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didn't used to be that way. 
I used to always play red 

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because if you know me at all, 
I. 

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Thought yeah. 
Yeah, if you know me at all, 

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outside of the board gaming 
world, I'm a graduate of the 

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University of Georgia. 
I am a huge Georgia Bulldogs 

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fan. 
And because of that, I would 

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always try to play with the red 
meeple. 

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Well, you know, I, as my son, 
grew up and started playing 

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games with me. 
Well, he wanted to be the red 

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meeple because, you know, he's 
the George and, you know, try to

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be a good dad and encourage them
to play games. 

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I'll let him have the red Maple.
And so I just always started 

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playing with green and green now
that he is my oldest is now at 

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college himself, so he's out of 
the house. 

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But I, I just still keep playing
green. 

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I've gotten used to it now. 
Is is he? 

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Did he go to Georgia? 
He is actually at Kennesaw 

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State. 
Which? 

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Is a college just on the 
northeastern northwestern side 

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of Atlanta? 
Loving it over there. 

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00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,320
For those of you keeping score, 
there's no rivalry. 

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So that is a perfectly 
acceptable school for Jerry's 

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son to go to. 
That's. 

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Right. 
And he's still, he's still a 

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huge George fan, even though 
he's going to miss all states. 

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That's never going to change. 
You know, that's not going to 

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change. 
I don't even if I didn't go to 

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LSU, I'm I would be an LSU fan 
simply by virtue. 

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If that's part of the cultural 
DNA, you know that is. 

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Yeah, absolutely. 
You know that, which is why I 

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play person. 
There's not a lot and we should 

225
00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:41,040
probably move on because I don't
want you to lose viewers. 

226
00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:45,160
But there's not a lot of 
crossover it seems like with me 

227
00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:49,560
between, you know, being fans of
of of college football or the 

228
00:11:49,560 --> 00:11:53,680
NFL and being huge board gamers,
which makes me really sad. 

229
00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:58,360
But everyone that I game with 
here is both so right. 

230
00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,640
It's awesome because we can play
games and talk football at the 

231
00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:04,280
same time and which is just 
perfect combination I think. 

232
00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,920
I think it's the sport because 
here in the Midwest, what I'm 

233
00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:10,600
experiencing is they all care 
about baseball. 

234
00:12:11,560 --> 00:12:12,920
Oh yeah. 
Right. 

235
00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:15,560
Yeah, Springfield is in the 
middle of Saint Louis and 

236
00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:17,920
Chicago. 
So it's like the Cardinals and 

237
00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:24,400
the Cubs and every board gamer 
here in the Midwest are also not

238
00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,080
everyone, but a lot of them are 
all baseball fans. 

239
00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,200
So yeah, I think it's I think 
it's just the sport of choice. 

240
00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:33,520
I've been fortunate enough to be
to Wrigley, to go to Wrigley 

241
00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:35,680
Field a couple of times when 
I've been in Chicago on business

242
00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:37,800
trips. 
And man, I mean that. 

243
00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,040
The whole aura of that place, 
wow. 

244
00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:41,960
Yep. 
Yeah, so. 

245
00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:44,840
Yeah. 
But anyway, before we lose too 

246
00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:48,120
many more viewers. 
Right, OK, so here comes here 

247
00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:52,040
comes the two-part question that
I've been asking everyone and 

248
00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:56,120
the reason why it's two parts. 
I think this will be the last 

249
00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:57,920
time I say this. 
I'm not going to explain it 

250
00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:00,560
anymore, but I've explained it 
12 Times Now. 

251
00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,160
The reason it's got two parts is
because I have love and 

252
00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:07,320
compassion for you and I've and 
people find the first part to be

253
00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,480
rather difficult. 
Do so Part 1. 

254
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:15,320
Do you have a favorite board 
game of all time? 

255
00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,160
Difficult question that. 
Is like oh sorry did you want 

256
00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:19,680
to? 
Go, I do, Let me tell you, Part 

257
00:13:19,680 --> 00:13:23,000
2, if you don't have an answer 
to Part 1 because I realize it's

258
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,360
a challenge. 
Part 2 is where the compassion 

259
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:27,360
comes in. 
Do you have a favorite board 

260
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:31,160
game right now that's hitting 
your table all the time? 

261
00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:36,800
OK, All right. 
So the answer to Part 1 is I 

262
00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:41,160
don't think I'd have one 
favorite game. 

263
00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:47,600
I have a group of games that if 
I had to call down to like 10 

264
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:52,040
games, I could probably nail the
10 games, but I don't really 

265
00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,400
just have one that jumps 
immediate. 

266
00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:58,640
Now I can do this. 
I can tell you what my like 

267
00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:03,440
favorite game of 2025 was. 
My favorite game of 2024 was if 

268
00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:06,080
you're interested in that, but 
like one for all time. 

269
00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:10,520
I just I I don't think I do. 
We're going to pivot since it is

270
00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,080
the new year. 
Since it's the new year, let's 

271
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:16,040
quickly look back at 2025. 
That's perfectly natural. 

272
00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,080
What was your favorite game of 
2025? 

273
00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:20,960
South the my favorite game of 
2025. 

274
00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:22,720
I don't know if a lot of people 
will say this. 

275
00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:26,040
It's not that it's like an 
obscure game, but it wasn't one 

276
00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,840
that just was like I'm in your 
face all the time. 

277
00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:32,160
You know that that everyone was 
featuring constantly, but my 

278
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:37,400
favorite game of 2025 was from 
Capstone Games and that was 

279
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:43,360
Galileo Galilei. 
Love, love that game so much. 

280
00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:49,600
My wheelhouse is, you know, mid 
euro type games. 

281
00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,320
I love everything about what 
they did with that game. 

282
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:56,800
It is so good. 
And that designer, I mean, talk 

283
00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,760
about coming out of nowhere and 
hitting Grand Slam after Grand 

284
00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,400
Slam after Grand Slam. 
I mean, the same guy that did 

285
00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:05,200
SETI, same guy that did Tea 
Garden. 

286
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,520
I mean, like, OK guy, you know. 
Yeah, Yep. 

287
00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:13,880
So I met, I met Tomas Holek at 
the Capstone Games booth. 

288
00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:16,520
He was signing copies of Galileo
at Gen. 

289
00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:18,400
Con. 
I had forgotten to bring, I 

290
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,640
wanted to bring my rule book or 
something because I already own 

291
00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:22,920
the game to have him sign it. 
But I forgot. 

292
00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,600
But it was more important that I
give him my business card and 

293
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,000
tell him about the podcast 
because I really want him on the

294
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:29,280
show. 
Nice. 

295
00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:35,480
Actually, I got face to face 
with him and I got to talk to 

296
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:39,920
him for a few minutes and the 
the look on his face suggested 

297
00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,200
he had no idea who I was and 
what I was talking about. 

298
00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:45,680
I suspect I made a fool of 
myself. 

299
00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:47,560
But you know what? 
No, it's OK. 

300
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:51,840
I haven't heard from him since 
but. 

301
00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:54,960
Well, he doesn't know what he's 
missing out, no. 

302
00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,440
I shook the hand. 
The design. 

303
00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:00,960
Galileo Galilei. 
That's a good choice. 

304
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:05,600
Yeah, that's a good. 
I just it's beautiful on the 

305
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,920
table when it looks as good as 
it plays and it plays that good 

306
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,400
like it just wow. 
Yep. 

307
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,440
If you guys have not tried it, 
go try recommendation. 

308
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:16,920
Got to, you've got to do it. 
You've got to do it. 

309
00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:20,040
That's great. 
So you said that you didn't have

310
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,880
a favorite of all time, but you 
kind of have a top 10. 

311
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,440
So I think that lends the next 
question. 

312
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,720
Do you have a favorite board 
game mechanic that you 

313
00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:30,880
absolutely love despite the 
theme? 

314
00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:35,920
I have two if that's OK. 
It is perfect because everyone 

315
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:38,680
else has two. 
That seems to be the consensus. 

316
00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:42,000
I absolutely love worker 
placement games. 

317
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,320
It did take me about six months 
to realize that it's not work 

318
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,280
replacement. 
It is work replacement. 

319
00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:51,360
Hey, you gotta learn sometime, 
right? 

320
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:53,160
Yes. 
When I was first playing, I it 

321
00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,600
was really funny is when I was 
first playing and learning about

322
00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:57,800
all the different mechanics. 
As I was kind of getting into 

323
00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,800
this whole world. 
I told one of my friends, or I 

324
00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,960
think I asked him, hey, do you 
have any worker placement games?

325
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:06,440
Like worker placement you mean? 
You mean playing a game instead 

326
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,040
of going to work? 
What are you talking about? 

327
00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:10,400
And I was like, am I not saying 
that right? 

328
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:15,640
No, I was not saying that right.
But yes, worker placement games.

329
00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:20,319
Probably my #1 mechanic, but a 
close #2 if not tied. 

330
00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:24,960
I love deck builders, deck 
builders, back builders. 

331
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,079
Mostly deck builders but games 
like quack. 

332
00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:29,760
Also quacks of Quinlenburg. 
I also really like that. 

333
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,400
One so good. 
But yeah, I love deck builders. 

334
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:37,280
Think if one of my very, very 
good friends of gaming would 

335
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,360
absolutely slay me if I didn't 
mention Dominion as the greatest

336
00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:42,800
deck builder of all time, that 
is. 

337
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:46,920
That is his favorite game. 
And not only that, he is someone

338
00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:50,440
that I got to go to Gen. 
Con with me one year and he's 

339
00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:55,240
since come back and taken his 
family and has twice won the 

340
00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,720
one, at least one of the 
Dominion tournaments at Gen. 

341
00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,240
Con two different years he's. 
Get out of here. 

342
00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:02,000
That's. 
Awesome. 

343
00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:04,040
Yeah. 
So if I don't mention Dominion 

344
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:05,840
when I'm mentioning deck 
builders, he would kill. 

345
00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:09,560
There you go. 
Hey, so tell me, what is it 

346
00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,840
about worker placement games 
that you enjoy? 

347
00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:14,920
You did say it was kind of your 
number one. 

348
00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:20,720
Yeah, it is one of the first 
games that still lives in those 

349
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:24,760
final ten that I if I had to 
call down to 10 games is a game 

350
00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:30,280
called Champions of Midgard. 
And I love that game so much. 

351
00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:34,440
I could play that game. 
It insert large number here. 

352
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:36,120
I could, I could play it a lot, 
right? 

353
00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:41,440
And so it was one of the first 
worker placement games that I 

354
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,520
played. 
And the whole concept of being 

355
00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,000
able to, you know, when you, 
when you're moving into the game

356
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:50,040
of, of, of or sorry, when you're
moving into the world of modern 

357
00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,560
board games and your whole 
upbringing, upbringing rather, 

358
00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:57,760
was roll dice and move a, a 
piece down the board to be able 

359
00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:01,320
to tell me you can take that 
piece now and put it anywhere 

360
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,560
you want to and take whatever 
action you want to. 

361
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,480
Yep. 
Oh my gosh, yes, please, let's 

362
00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:10,920
do that. 
Yes. 

363
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,440
So yeah, I just, I just love it.
And then, you know, like I said,

364
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,600
playing the Champions of Midgard
early on in my in my modern 

365
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:22,440
board game, I just submitted 
that as as just being, I love 

366
00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,960
that mechanic. 
What's your take on what do they

367
00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:26,840
call it? 
Dice. 

368
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:28,720
Dice. 
Placement dice. 

369
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,520
Placement. 
Worker dice placement games, 

370
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,840
Yeah. 
I don't like it as much as 

371
00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:38,160
traditional worker placement 
because it feels like a lot of 

372
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,240
times it feels like well, you 
know, you roll and then based on

373
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:45,280
your role, you have to choose 
from a more limited selection 

374
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,240
because you know, fours can only
go here, here, here. 

375
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,160
It's OK. 
I've played some games like 

376
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:51,600
that. 
Shoot, I can't find it. 

377
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,000
One of the you might have to cut
and edit here a little bit. 

378
00:19:54,000 --> 00:20:00,360
That's OK. 
The directional games from, you 

379
00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:02,440
know, like Raiders of the North 
Sea and that but. 

380
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,960
But but the new. 
Garfield, Garfield. 

381
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:09,080
Games something of the tie. 
I can't remember the name of the

382
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:13,920
game now but it is all about 
dice placement and it's it's 

383
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,520
fine. 
Like I don't I don't dislike the

384
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,880
game. 
I would maybe choose something 

385
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,440
else with a more pure order 
placement. 

386
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,800
So you like the W King? 
You like the West Kingdom 

387
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:28,600
trilogy? 
Yeah. 

388
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:34,720
And I love Raiders of the North 
Sea is also from the ones before

389
00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,840
the Western Kingdoms, but I 
mean, gosh, they they can hardly

390
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:39,840
do any wrong either, right? 
Like they just keep putting out 

391
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,880
hit after hit after hit so. 
I I will say there's one game 

392
00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,240
that it's, it's the, is it the 
Age of Atlantis? 

393
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,240
So it's an interesting board. 
First of all, it's a circular 

394
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,680
board, which I didn't know that 
that was like a thing and I 

395
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,320
loved, I love it. 
I'm here for circular boards. 

396
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,120
So your, your Atlantis, your 
workers are dice. 

397
00:21:00,120 --> 00:21:03,360
But instead of having pips on 
the dice, it's like a, a worker 

398
00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:06,240
icon. 
And you can, you can like they 

399
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:12,000
can take a rest action and that 
lets you turn it to a different 

400
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,120
side, which then makes it a 
stronger worker. 

401
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:17,680
So it's kind of interesting in 
worker placement games, you 

402
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:21,560
place a worker, you get the 
resource and either that worker 

403
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:26,440
is stuck until the end of the 
round, or it's it's stuck until 

404
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,920
somebody kicks him out or 
whatever. 

405
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,440
What I find interesting is you 
place this worker and you get, 

406
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,960
let's say you get double the 
resources in that space. 

407
00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:39,680
If you leave it there, you can 
turn the pit down and you'll get

408
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:45,320
single the so it's like, even 
though I can't bring him back to

409
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,360
place the next round, he's still
producing for me. 

410
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,240
He's still working. 
It's it's kind of an interesting

411
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:55,280
mechanic that I've not seen in 
dice placement games. 

412
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,600
That's kind of cool. 
Age of Atlantis guys, check that

413
00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,400
out if you want. 
And if not, that sounds. 

414
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:00,520
Interesting. 
Yeah. 

415
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,600
It's really interesting to me 
how it seems like, you know, in,

416
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,400
in its purest form there, there 
are only like 8 or 10 or 12 

417
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:11,320
mechanics out there, but people 
are finding now ways to tweak 

418
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:13,960
those mechanics. 
Like it used to be, you know, 

419
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:15,680
trick taking, now it's 
cooperative trick taking. 

420
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,920
It used to be only worker 
placement, now it's dice 

421
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,640
placement. 
And like they're, they're 

422
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:24,200
finding ways to reinvigorate 
some of these, you know, old 

423
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:25,640
school mechanics. 
And I love it. 

424
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:27,960
I think it's fantastic. 
I'm totally here for it. 

425
00:22:28,120 --> 00:22:30,880
Hey, what's your take on Still 
talking about Worker placement 

426
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:36,000
Is rock hard 1977. 
I had Jockey Fox on about 13 

427
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:37,480
weeks ago. 
She talked about the game. 

428
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:39,400
What's your take on that? 
You haven't played yet? 

429
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,600
OK, so well then good. 
I will tell you about it. 

430
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,840
So here's why I like it. 
It's a worker placement and you 

431
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:52,160
only have one worker and that 
worker is you. 

432
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,240
So OK. 
You know, you know the game, I 

433
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,240
know you know the game. 
So the concept's really easy. 

434
00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,800
But the board and I would 
recommend guys, if you want to 

435
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:06,920
know more about Rock Art 1977, 
go back to episode 143 just 

436
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:08,840
before the content creator 
series started. 

437
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:10,880
And we had Jackie Fox talk all 
about it. 

438
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,840
Listen to her talk about 
negotiating contracts with a 

439
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:15,840
publisher. 
That was some intense. 

440
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:18,560
I didn't know we were going 
there, but we went there. 

441
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,720
So the board is divided into 
daytime actions, evening 

442
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,320
actions, and after hours. 
So you can only take one action 

443
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,280
per phase. 
But you also have a job, so you 

444
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:33,280
have to go to work. 
So you could skip work three 

445
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,400
times before you lose your job. 
Ultimately you want to lose your

446
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,440
job, but it's like you only have
this one worker. 

447
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,200
So just like it really mimics 
real life. 

448
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,480
You're a musician trying to make
it big and get gigs and get a 

449
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:51,080
manager and record a demo and 
you gotta do all these really 

450
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,040
cool things, but it's like, I've
never seen a game where you only

451
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,520
had one worker. 
It's. 

452
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,640
Interesting. 
Yeah, you're gonna have to check

453
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,120
that out. 
Yeah, I played some games where 

454
00:24:02,120 --> 00:24:04,880
you've had like maybe only two 
or three, but one at a time is 

455
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:09,080
very interesting, yes. 
Just recently, Speakeasy by 

456
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,320
Vital Laserda arrived at our 
doorstep. 

457
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,240
Here's a worker placement where 
you start with four and then you

458
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:20,440
have three, and then you have 3 
again and then you have one. 

459
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:25,080
OK. 
Yes, you get fewer rather than 

460
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:26,440
more. 
Right. 

461
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,320
Interesting. 
Yeah, again, this is your, this 

462
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,640
is your. 
Point is, people are taking 

463
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,720
pre-existing mechanics and 
tweaking them ever so slowly. 

464
00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:38,280
And it's great. 
It like it just breathes new 

465
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,080
life into you know, and anytime 
you can breathe new life into 

466
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,080
the industry, hey. 
Absolutely, Absolutely. 

467
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,600
Yeah. 
So tell me about, because you've

468
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,360
been at this for quite a while. 
Tell me about the time. 

469
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,560
So you get into that, you get 
you grew up in the classics, you

470
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:58,920
then you are introduced to the 
modern board game hobby and at 

471
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:03,600
some point you cease to be just 
a casual gamer to becoming an an

472
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,320
intentional content creator. 
Tell me about that shift. 

473
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,880
It's very interesting that you 
phrased it that way because 

474
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:16,440
first of all, I, I stumbled into
modern board gaming almost 

475
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:17,920
accidentally. 
I mean, I'll, I'll tell you 

476
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,400
about that real quick. 
If that's if that's absolutely. 

477
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:27,960
So my mom, before she passed, 
moved in with us and so she 

478
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,960
loves games. 
And so I didn't want to bring 

479
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,280
out all the old ones again. 
So I was trying to think of, 

480
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,360
well, what kind of new games are
out there? 

481
00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:38,600
What can I do? 
I started watching this web 

482
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:43,200
series that Will Wheaton, the 
actor used to do called 

483
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,520
Tabletop. 
He would have celebrities on to 

484
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,480
play different board games and I
found those interesting. 

485
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,720
And then I just was scrolling 
through Facebook one day and I 

486
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,520
saw two different families that 
I knew through another hobby, 

487
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,680
geocaching that we had already 
hung out doing that hobby. 

488
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,080
They were they had taken 
pictures and post to some of 

489
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:03,960
them sitting around playing 
board games and I was like, that

490
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,040
looks really interesting. 
So you know, I messaged the guy 

491
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,080
and I said, hey, just saw you 
guys are playing some board 

492
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,080
games next time you guys get 
together, Hey, you know, it 

493
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,160
might be I'd love to come and 
kind of sit in and see what this

494
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:17,280
is all about. 
And so just tumbling through on 

495
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,280
Facebook and, and having, you 
know, my mom move in with us, it

496
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:24,160
just sort of happened like 
almost serendipitously, I don't.

497
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,880
Know right? 
So we started playing games, I 

498
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,760
started getting new games in and
I still had absolutely no 

499
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:35,720
intention of becoming a content 
creator that that, I mean, it 

500
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:37,680
wasn't even in my brain. 
It was just like, hey, what can 

501
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:42,400
I do for some good family time? 
And then COVID came and, you 

502
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,120
know, horrible time. 
Everybody's trapped in their 

503
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:46,840
houses. 
Everybody's, you know, just 

504
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:48,720
trying to do whatever they can 
to just get through the 

505
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,120
situation. 
For us, we started playing even 

506
00:26:52,120 --> 00:26:54,200
more board games. 
Like, we had been doing a lot of

507
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,200
different kinds of family stuff,
going out and doing stuff. 

508
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:58,880
Now it was like board games, war
games, war games. 

509
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:03,280
And I just started posting some 
out on Instagram, not even 

510
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,040
trying to do anything, just 
like, oh, here's what we did 

511
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:06,920
tonight, you know, friends and 
whatever. 

512
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,600
Started getting a few more 
followers and started getting 

513
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:11,600
people asking me, Hey, what's I 
saw this game? 

514
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,840
What is it? 
And so my son said, Dad, you 

515
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,680
should try to do this. 
I kind of suggested. 

516
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,200
And I was like, I mean, I guess 
I could, we're all stuck at 

517
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:23,440
home. 
You know, nobody's really going 

518
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:24,920
out and doing anything. 
Why not? 

519
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,720
I'll just start. 
And he goes, well, he goes, the 

520
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:29,840
first thing you need to do is 
you need a good name. 

521
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,720
And I'm like, you haven't even 
thought of a name because again,

522
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,520
this was not even processing for
me as a possibility. 

523
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:41,280
And he said we are stuck in this
house, but you want to let 

524
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,840
everybody in the world know that
you're trying to share games 

525
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,320
with them. 
So you need a name like Tabletop

526
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,840
Worldwide and boom, that was it,
he named it. 

527
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:55,120
There it is. 
So my oldest son named, you 

528
00:27:55,120 --> 00:27:58,640
know, my, my brand, my platform 
when he was probably 12. 

529
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,520
Well, maybe he's a little older,
but, but sometime around 13 

530
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,040
years old, he was like, here, 
here's here's what you need, 

531
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:05,520
dad. 
And I'm like, hey, all right, 

532
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,880
let's go. 
And so from then on, I just, I 

533
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,480
threw your tabletop worldwide 
out there and it, it just grew. 

534
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:13,920
People love board games. 
What can I say? 

535
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,520
That's it. 
So, yeah, it was almost, it was 

536
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,480
very, very much not intentional.
And so moving to intentional, 

537
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,280
which was I guess looping back 
to what your original question 

538
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:29,400
was, was just the fact that, you
know, we're all stuck indoors. 

539
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,000
You know, we're all needed to 
try to come up with something 

540
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,840
to, you know, entertain 
ourselves while we're trying to 

541
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,320
get through this whole horrible 
crisis that we were in. 

542
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,960
And that's what he and I kind of
came up with together. 

543
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:42,480
And I just, I just took it and 
ran with it. 

544
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,960
And I kind of have this 
obsessive compulsive personality

545
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:50,920
that when I get something that I
really like, I just dive in and 

546
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,680
I just hammer, hammer, hammer, 
grind, grind, grind. 

547
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,240
And been doing it ever since. 
I love it. 

548
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,600
I love it, I love it. 
Tell me, tell me about, tell me 

549
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:05,320
about the first review copy of a
board game you ever received, if

550
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,280
you remember, because I know 
there's a lot of them. 

551
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,400
Well, so that what I remember is
the first one I ever did was 

552
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:17,640
actually a prototype print and 
play of a game that was going to

553
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:22,120
be physical, but ironically 
enough never came out. 

554
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,840
But what makes it really cool is
is, you know, I, I was doing 

555
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,280
this and I had considered the 
possibility once I dove in about

556
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:34,280
him possibly being able to, to 
get review copies from 

557
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,320
published. 
My first goal as a content role 

558
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,840
creator was can I actually get 
someone to send me a game? 

559
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,000
That would be so cool if I could
actually do that. 

560
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,960
So the first thing I did was 
somehow I got a person who was 

561
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,600
building a prototype of a game, 
contacted me through DM ING 

562
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,840
through Instagram and said, Hey,
would you be interested in 

563
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,080
trying out this game? 
And I thought, absolutely, let's

564
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:56,840
let's go. 
This is what I'm here for. 

565
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,480
So I printed it out. 
It was like this multi sheet of 

566
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:05,840
built and I, I laminated it, I 
put it, I put it on a, a 

567
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,640
cardboard that I cut out from a 
giant box. 

568
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,320
And so I had my I had my I mean,
I was, you were ready. 

569
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:21,360
So into this I, I right around 
that time I got to some miles, I

570
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,640
think it was maybe 500 followers
at the time, because this is 

571
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:28,680
really, really, and the guy 
contacted me and said, Hey, I 

572
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:30,280
noticed, you know, you're 
hitting a milestone. 

573
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,160
You're kind of getting a few 100
followers now. 

574
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,760
Do you need a logo? 
And the guy that had reached out

575
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:40,480
to me for my very first even 
print and play version of a 

576
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:46,280
prototype game built me the logo
for free that I still use today.

577
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:47,880
Yeah. 
And I love it. 

578
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,880
I think it's classic. 
I think it's it's shows the 

579
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,320
world. 
It shows a diversity of 

580
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,040
different colors. 
And it also represents at the 

581
00:30:56,040 --> 00:31:00,480
same time, there's four 
different meeples above a globe.

582
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,080
And there are, you know, me and 
my wife and my two kids. 

583
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,720
So it also represents our family
at the same time. 

584
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:06,600
Look at that. 
So. 

585
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,880
That's great. 
Yeah, so I wanted to put it out 

586
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:12,280
there. 
I wanted to let people know, 

587
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,120
hey, we're here for the whole 
world. 

588
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,840
We want a diversity of people 
within our group. 

589
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,400
Everyone's welcome. 
And at the same time, here's my 

590
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,720
family out here bringing this 
stuff to you. 

591
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,440
And we hope you like it. 
So at some point though, you 

592
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,640
began, and I mentioned this in 
the introduction because you 

593
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,880
have managed to curate and 
cultivate this community of 

594
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,400
designers and publishers. 
If there's a board game 

595
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,680
publisher, you know, a minimum 
of one person, right? 

596
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:46,520
Like what I want people to know 
this about you is if you want to

597
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,040
make connections and if you need
to know well, who do I contact 

598
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:55,360
at, you know, whatever, Ivy 
Studios, who do I contact for 

599
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,560
Asma Day? 
Who do I contact for Wonderful 

600
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,480
World board games? 
Jerry knows the contact. 

601
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:03,760
And it's not like Jerry just 
knows the person's name. 

602
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,600
He has a relationship with these
contacts. 

603
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,840
You have managed to do this over
5-6 years. 

604
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,280
And I mean, it's incredible, you
know? 

605
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,040
Thank you. 
It's a, it was, it was a lot of 

606
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:23,440
hard work. 
I, I mentioned how, you know, 

607
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,280
nowadays it seems like when I go
to conventions, I don't even see

608
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:28,560
a whole lot of the exhibit 
floor. 

609
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:30,080
I go to Gen. 
Con and I'm like, I really need 

610
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,720
to carve out some time to just 
walk through all of these booze 

611
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,360
because I have a calendar, you 
know, and it's back-to-back to 

612
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:41,960
back-to-back meetings because 
conventions are just great ways 

613
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:43,960
to make those face to face 
connections, right? 

614
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:48,280
For one thing, after hours and, 
and before the convention 

615
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,280
starts, it's, it's an amazing 
time to be with other creators 

616
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:56,000
and talk and hang out and play 
games with people that you don't

617
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:57,760
normally see face to face very 
often. 

618
00:32:58,120 --> 00:32:59,960
And then during the convention 
hours themselves. 

619
00:32:59,960 --> 00:33:04,360
I, I try to make that same 
connection with publishers and 

620
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,680
I, I don't know everyone. 
I appreciate that. 

621
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,120
I wish I did. 
There are still, there's still a

622
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,680
couple of publishers that I 
really, really want to get in 

623
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:17,160
with. 
But I mean, you know, it's. 

624
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,400
Close. 
It's kind of. 

625
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,160
Close. 
I do still now I have I also 

626
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,080
have some favorites of those, 
but I'm not going to mention 

627
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,160
this because I don't want. 
To We don't want to. 

628
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:27,800
We don't want it. 
No, we don't want to do that. 

629
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:32,400
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there are. 
But there are, you know, like 

630
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:37,080
like like with games themselves.
There are some publishers that 

631
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:42,080
are, I guess, more receptive and
easier to get along with and 

632
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,760
easier to talk to, and there are
some that are not. 

633
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,960
And that's fine #1 it's a 
business and they have to worry 

634
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:49,320
about their business before 
anything else. 

635
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,560
And I get that. 
And it's hard to understand a 

636
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:58,040
lot of times when you get knows 
from publishers that it's 

637
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:02,000
rarely, I won't say never, but 
it's rarely personal. 

638
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,840
You know, they, they are doing 
what they think is in the best 

639
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,840
interest of their business. 
And, and especially, you know, 

640
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:09,719
with the tough times that we 
talked about, you know, with, 

641
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,239
with all the tariffs and with 
everything being so expensive 

642
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:17,000
for publishers now, you know, 
that affects us as content 

643
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,239
creators as well, because 
there's not going to be as many,

644
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,360
you know, review copies. 
There's not going to be as many 

645
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:24,600
opportunities because you know, 
they're having to deal with all 

646
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,360
the stuff they're they're 
dealing with how far off down a 

647
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:28,600
rabbit hole from what you were 
going? 

648
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:32,480
No, Nope, no. 
How has that impacted your 

649
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,080
productivity? 
See, I'm trying not to make it 

650
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:37,760
sound like a job. 
How has Funny? 

651
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,320
Though, because looking in from 
the outside, someone might think

652
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:46,480
it's a job because I work really
hard now. 

653
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,960
I, you know, oh, you poor guy, 
you're playing a bunch of board 

654
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,840
games. 
But I mean, there's a lot of 

655
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,560
other stuff that goes into it. 
You know, you spend a lot of 

656
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:56,960
time, you know, researching 
titles. 

657
00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,560
You spend a lot of time, you 
know, writing and editing. 

658
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:01,960
You spend a lot of time, 
especially if you're doing video

659
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:03,360
content like you're doing 
constantly. 

660
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,680
I mean, you know, video editing 
takes forever. 

661
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,160
And I am, you know, at this 
point, I'm, I have not. 

662
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,080
And I keep saying I'm eventually
going to move into YouTube and I

663
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,040
still have not taken that 
plunge. 

664
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:19,600
I really want to, but I am doing
a lot of like preview reels and 

665
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,600
tik toks and short like short 
form videos for publishers now. 

666
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,440
And, and even just doing that, I
mean, the, the editing time on 

667
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,640
those, it is crazy. 
So I can't even imagine, you 

668
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:33,080
know what, what people like you 
and and Adam from tabletop 

669
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,600
vibes, you know, with, with your
full on YouTube channels. 

670
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,200
I I can't even imagine what you 
guys are going through on that. 

671
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,920
So it's really been interesting 
since this series started with 

672
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,720
the conversation with Bonds, 
I've had the conversation with 

673
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:50,280
everyone about the effort of 
long form versus short form. 

674
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:54,480
And yes, it takes a lot. 
You and I will talk for an hour 

675
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,840
and record this. 
I will spend three to six hours 

676
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:00,840
editing. 
This I'm sure, I'm sure. 

677
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:04,480
But, and I think you know this 
because you you're kind of a 

678
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,720
guru at the short form because 
that's that's your wheelhouse, 

679
00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:10,840
right? 
That is the content you create 

680
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,600
is short form content. 
Talk about how much work that 

681
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,280
takes. 
You know, it really is, and I 

682
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,000
don't even realize it myself 
sometimes because I will sit 

683
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,120
down and I will shoot for a 62nd
video. 

684
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,680
You know, I might shoot 10 
minutes worth of material. 

685
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,280
And then you've got to narrow 
all of that down. 

686
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,240
Do exactly what you want. 
You know, you do multiple shoots

687
00:36:32,240 --> 00:36:36,200
for different, but what I do is 
a little bit different than than

688
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,120
you and I, I don't envy at all 
the six hours that you're 

689
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,640
putting into editing all of 
these videos that you do. 

690
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:48,320
But I do more. 
I do a lot of comedic stuff in 

691
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:52,440
mind, so trying to find, you 
know, OK, how can I make this 

692
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:54,640
line up right? 
I got to make this line hit in a

693
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:56,640
certain way. 
I've got to make sure the music 

694
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,280
in the background is right, to 
kind, to kind of pep up what I'm

695
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,040
doing. 
Sometimes I'll put in video 

696
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,640
effects I've got. 
I'm actually back in, what was 

697
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,240
it? 
Towards the end of October of 

698
00:37:07,240 --> 00:37:11,600
last year, I was working on a 
video for a game called Dicey 

699
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,120
Devices. 
And in that I had, you know, 

700
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,240
laser beams coming out of 
people's eyes. 

701
00:37:17,240 --> 00:37:19,320
And I like all kinds of fun 
stuff like that. 

702
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:24,040
And I start working on that. 
And if this is a 62nd video and 

703
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:28,560
I will sit down at like 8:00 and
like no kidding, I'm like 10/30,

704
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,560
11:00 I'm going oh gosh, I 
really need to wrap this up. 

705
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,320
I can't believe I just spent 2 
1/2 hours on a 62nd video. 

706
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,320
This is insane. 
But it's fun. 

707
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,160
I enjoy doing it and I get lost 
in it, you know, and that's and 

708
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,680
that's what makes it so great is
Oh my gosh, you spent two hours 

709
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:48,720
on a 62nd video. 
Yeah, but it was so fun because 

710
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:50,760
I'm like, oh, this is really 
going to make people laugh or 

711
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:52,560
oh, people are going to get 
shocked when they see this and 

712
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:58,680
and and kind of building that 
anticipation is is so fun, is so

713
00:37:58,680 --> 00:37:59,880
fun. 
I had I. 

714
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:04,600
Had a similar conversation with 
Grant Lyon when he was on this 

715
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:08,160
series earlier this year, or I 
guess last year as it were. 

716
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,560
We talked a lot about the 
delivery for creating. 

717
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,760
I mean, obviously his primary 
career as a comedian and then 

718
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,640
gaming is second. 
But we talked about how we 

719
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,560
talked about cultivating the 
skill like you're cultivating 

720
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:26,320
the skills of short form 
content, you're cultivating the 

721
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,000
comedy. 
Whereas I cultivate, I never 

722
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:32,440
cultivated that even as a child.
I cultivated a more serious 

723
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,920
analytical, you know, more 
humanistic. 

724
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,160
I don't know what you want to 
call this, but it's like, you 

725
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:40,880
know me, though it's not the 
human connection. 

726
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,840
Yeah, absolutely. 
I live in the long form. 

727
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:48,400
Unfortunately, the rest of the 
world doesn't want long form, so

728
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:49,920
there you go. 
You'd be surprised how many 

729
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:51,320
people don't even want 60 
seconds. 

730
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:55,760
I mean it's. 
I know when I create a 22nd, 

731
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,840
when I create a 22nd short for 
YouTube to advertise this 

732
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:04,560
episode, yeah, the minimum view 
time is like 8 to 10 seconds. 

733
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:09,080
And I'm like, wow, right. 
I don't know what I can say in 

734
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,360
eight seconds, you know? 
I'm starting to spend even more 

735
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:17,160
time like researching like, OK, 
you know what, what, what kind 

736
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,280
of hook can I put in the 
beginning of the video? 

737
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,520
You know what? 
You know, all these different 

738
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,920
methods to try to like, hold 
that attention span because 

739
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,240
people are used to, you know, 
swipe, swipe, swipe, swipe. 

740
00:39:27,240 --> 00:39:30,040
What makes somebody stop? 
What makes them stop swiping? 

741
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:31,720
If we learned that, we'd be 
millionaires. 

742
00:39:31,720 --> 00:39:33,320
Right. 
I know we would. 

743
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,760
We would. 
Everyone keeps telling me that 

744
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:37,800
the thumbnail is really 
important. 

745
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,040
And so for those devoted 
followers who are to my YouTube 

746
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,200
channel, you see the thumbnails 
for each episode and it's going 

747
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:45,880
to be a picture of me and my 
guest. 

748
00:39:46,240 --> 00:39:49,560
That's the problem though. 
Nobody people want to swipe on 

749
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:51,760
this face. 
They're. 

750
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:53,840
Gonna help you, buddy. 
I'm sorry, this ain't gonna help

751
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,400
you. 
Some relying on my Spotify 

752
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:02,200
listeners who don't consume the 
video so. 

753
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:04,560
Well, you got. 
AI know. 

754
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:11,400
Doubly bad this week, no? 
So let's go back to when you 

755
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,400
started making content. 
Your son's like tabletop 

756
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,280
worldwide dad, and, you know, 
you got a logo. 

757
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:21,000
Were there any content creators 
in your research that like 

758
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:22,920
inspired you? 
Was there someone that you were 

759
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,440
like, this is what I wanted. 
That is a great question. 

760
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,800
Is it supremely like arrogant to
say no? 

761
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:36,000
Yes, OK. 
Honestly though, I just the 

762
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,960
thing that inspired me, or I 
don't know if inspired is the 

763
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:42,120
right word. 
The thing I guess that kept me 

764
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:48,000
from feeling like A, this is a 
job, B, that I don't want to 

765
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:52,560
just get discouraged is I 
decided early on I'm going to do

766
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:54,560
what I do and if they like it, 
great. 

767
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:56,560
And if they don't, that's fine 
too. 

768
00:40:56,720 --> 00:40:58,720
I'm not going to try to imitate 
somebody else. 

769
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:03,120
I'm not going to try to go, this
person is doing this, let me do 

770
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,200
that. 
I'm just going to do what I 

771
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,240
enjoy doing and I'm going to put
it out there. 

772
00:41:08,240 --> 00:41:12,640
And I mean, it's been a slow 
burn, right? 

773
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:17,400
Like I'm not one of those people
that went from, you know, zero 

774
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:21,520
to 8006 months. 
You know, it like took me 6 plus

775
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:26,160
years and I started really 
towards the end of 2019, you 

776
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:29,640
know, right before COVID, then 
COVID kind of like what really 

777
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:32,800
got me started. 
But now we're in 2026. 

778
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,280
So it's been 6 years. 
It's not, you know, it's a slow 

779
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:37,800
burn. 
It's been a lot of hard work. 

780
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:42,600
Now I've enjoyed it, but I, you 
know, early on it was just me 

781
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:46,720
saying I'm going to do my thing.
I hope people like it. 

782
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:48,840
I don't necessarily think 
they're going to like it. 

783
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:51,200
I'm not airy enough to go, hey, 
whatever I do is going to be 

784
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,400
awesome. 
But at the same time I was like,

785
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,960
I'm not going to let myself get 
discouraged as I'm building. 

786
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,040
I'm just going to do what I do. 
And then, you know, slowly I've 

787
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,720
morphed into maybe more, I 
guess, mainstream contemporary 

788
00:42:04,720 --> 00:42:07,440
here, my reviews here my 
suggestions. 

789
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:11,200
Here's my, you know, here's a 
funny real here's and you know, 

790
00:42:11,240 --> 00:42:15,720
but I'll say this, I really, 
really liked some of the people 

791
00:42:15,720 --> 00:42:20,680
that were like the bigger hosts 
of huge channels, like, like, I 

792
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:25,120
mean, Rodney's amazing, but 
what, but what Rodney Smith does

793
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,920
is how to play videos. 
And I've never been a how to 

794
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,000
play video guy. 
I really admired him though, 

795
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:36,000
because of the almost like he 
could, you could reach out into 

796
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,000
the TV or your phone or whatever
and shake hands with him because

797
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:43,600
he's just, he's so personable 
and he's so, you know, making 

798
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:47,240
you feel welcome and making you 
feel like, hey, this isn't me 

799
00:42:47,240 --> 00:42:50,240
being your teacher. 
This is your buddy sitting at 

800
00:42:50,240 --> 00:42:52,240
the table with you trying to 
teach you a game. 

801
00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:57,000
And so I did really look at at 
people like that to say, OK, how

802
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:02,160
can I make myself seem like I'm 
not showing you this, I'm 

803
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:07,080
sharing this with you, right? 
Like make that connection right?

804
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,880
Because there's a huge 
difference between displaying a 

805
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:13,480
game and saying, hey buddy, let 
me come over here and sit you 

806
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,040
down at my table and, and and 
share this game with you and 

807
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:20,320
show you why this is so cool. 
Absolutely a total difference. 

808
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:21,920
Total. 
Difference, right, right. 

809
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:23,680
So I did look at people like 
that. 

810
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,320
And you know, I mentioned I'd 
I'd watched the the web series 

811
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,240
from Wil Wheaton when he sat 
down with people. 

812
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,440
And even though it was him, as, 
you know, like a somewhat of a 

813
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,120
celebrity sitting with other, 
you know, well known people at a

814
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:39,640
table, it still felt like it was
just a group of guys that you 

815
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:43,160
knew from across town that you 
hung out with sometimes and you 

816
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:44,440
could sit down and play a game 
together. 

817
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,560
So I did look up to people like 
that who knew how to make that 

818
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:52,800
connection because I think more 
than anything, building a 

819
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:56,640
community of people that you're 
connected with and not just that

820
00:43:56,640 --> 00:44:00,680
you're trying to sit at the top 
of some ivory tower and throwing

821
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,080
down bread to the matches or 
something like that. 

822
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:06,600
But I think that's really 
important. 

823
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:10,040
So I did, I did admire people 
that seem to be able to do that 

824
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,600
with just like no effort. 
And I know it's a lot of effort 

825
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:16,120
for them, but the way it comes 
across is that it's all like, 

826
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,600
it's so natural. 
I will say, though, that the 

827
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:24,280
view from the third floor window
of that ivory tower is not bad. 

828
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:28,120
So I can only imagine. 
I can imagine what it's like for

829
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:30,200
those guys at the top. 
That's right. 

830
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:32,760
I am third floor, Steve. 
That's me. 

831
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:34,880
My gosh. 
I didn't wanna make it sound 

832
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:36,920
like I didn't think there's 
anybody out there that's 

833
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,560
important. 
Right as I was coming up. 

834
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:44,000
It was more of maybe maybe a 
coping or defense mechanism for 

835
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:47,800
myself as like, well, OK, if I 
if I don't care what people 

836
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:49,560
think, then I won't feel 
rejected. 

837
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:52,840
You know, that kind of thing. 
Sure, there's a little bit of. 

838
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:56,680
I know that is probably not 
healthy attitude at all, but at 

839
00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:00,600
the same time it does allow you 
to put out there what you want 

840
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:03,800
to put out there, not what you 
think people want you to put out

841
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:05,720
there. 
Right, Absolutely. 

842
00:45:05,720 --> 00:45:09,880
You've definitely been true to 
yourself, consistent, committed.

843
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:13,000
These are the type of adjectives
I've heard just people 

844
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,080
describing you and your content 
throughout the years. 

845
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:20,000
You know, you are very I can 
count on you. 

846
00:45:20,240 --> 00:45:24,560
I was trying to find a single 
adjective, but because it's not 

847
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:27,400
accountable. 
But I can count on you and I can

848
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:31,040
count on your content if I want 
to know about a game. 

849
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:34,200
You know, one of the things I 
struggle with is everyone, 

850
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:35,520
especially with the cult of the 
new. 

851
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:39,160
Right now, you see, like, a 
million photographs of the same 

852
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,520
game. 
They don't really tell me 

853
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:44,400
anything about the game. 
Yeah. 

854
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:49,360
And so it's like, OK, did Jerry 
post a Did he post anything 

855
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:50,760
about Galileo? 
Did he? 

856
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:54,240
At least he's going to tell me 
what to expect from the game. 

857
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,520
I can count on that. 
And then if Jerry said the game 

858
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,800
is good and he describes the 
game now, I really want it, I'm 

859
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:02,960
going to go to Rodney and he's 
going to teach it to me. 

860
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:05,480
There you go. 
Great 1-2 punch, right? 

861
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,200
Yeah, that's how it, that's how 
it works. 

862
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:11,480
That's how it works. 
I will say I have been guilty of

863
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,120
of posting, you know, like mail 
day pics where I'm really 

864
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:15,680
excited about a game that just 
showed up. 

865
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,400
And so I'm like, here's this 
game and I don't really have a 

866
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:19,800
lot of information about it yet.
Yeah. 

867
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,920
But I'm so excited about it that
I just want to let people know. 

868
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:27,080
It's not my way of like doing a 
teaser post, almost like here's 

869
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,000
this awesome game, I'm going to 
be bringing you more about it. 

870
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:33,000
I promise to watch out for it, 
but I'm excited about. 

871
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:38,160
It and I have the luxury of, and
I hope that people are listening

872
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:40,480
so that they know this about you
as well. 

873
00:46:40,720 --> 00:46:44,280
I have the luxury of having a 
long time friendship with you so

874
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:48,560
that I know when you post those 
I can tell the difference in 

875
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:50,880
your content. 
Jerry just got it and he's 

876
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,520
excited. 
I'll wait a few weeks and he's 

877
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:57,200
going to tell me why and then I 
will know, you know, because I 

878
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:02,040
can rely on you to do that, to 
create the content, to not only 

879
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:06,600
share and connect, but also to 
inform, you know, because 

880
00:47:06,720 --> 00:47:08,080
there's a lot of games out there
and. 

881
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:12,000
There are. 
I can't play them all so I need 

882
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,160
to know which. 
Ones I wish I could remember. 

883
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:19,360
I saw some crazy statistics one 
time and I golly, I really wish 

884
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,960
I could remember exactly what 
they were, but it was like like,

885
00:47:23,240 --> 00:47:27,160
you know, 1000 new games come 
out every year and if you play a

886
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:32,240
new game every single week, 
you've played 52 of 1000 and 

887
00:47:32,240 --> 00:47:35,000
every year there's another 
thousand and every year you 

888
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,440
might only play 50 more. 
You know, and I know there's 

889
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,200
people out there that play 304 
hundred new games a year. 

890
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:42,800
Great if you can do it. 
I can't. 

891
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:50,000
I wish I could, but you know, 
and, and on top of that, if 

892
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,600
you're playing a new game every 
week, you know, how many of your

893
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,120
games that you love are you not 
getting to replay right? 

894
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,760
Absolutely. 
So I know you and and and your 

895
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:01,160
wife try to play through your 
collection every year, right? 

896
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:03,480
So, yeah. 
And I admire that so much about 

897
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:05,600
you. 
My wife one time told me. 

898
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,080
I asked her, you know, Hey, 
honey, I appreciate you playing 

899
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:10,720
all these games with me. 
What's been your favorite game? 

900
00:48:10,720 --> 00:48:12,760
And she says anything we get to 
play twice. 

901
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:16,440
So I. 
Understand that, I understand 

902
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:19,360
that. 
I, I have felt that way in our 

903
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:24,560
local game group years past. 
So yeah, yeah, I can, I can, I 

904
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:26,520
can get that. 
I can get that, Yeah. 

905
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:30,120
So I think, I think I know the 
answer, but you're, you have 

906
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:33,640
become multifaceted. 
Do you have a favorite or a 

907
00:48:33,720 --> 00:48:36,840
preference platform you like to 
post the majority of your 

908
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:40,760
content to? 
I mean, I'm, I'm Mr. Instagram. 

909
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,080
I kind of have been from the 
start. 

910
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:47,560
I'm on TikTok as well and love 
all the people that I interact 

911
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:51,360
with over there as well. 
But I don't post as many videos 

912
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,780
to be as consistent as I mean to
be to be as successful on 

913
00:48:54,780 --> 00:48:57,080
TikTok. 
So my main platform is is 

914
00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:59,160
Instagram. 
I want to go on YouTube. 

915
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:01,440
I really want to. 
So you want to. 

916
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,600
I mean, I don't want to like 
rebeat the same horse, but it 

917
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:09,560
is, you know, I can make I can 
do a review on Instagram post, 

918
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:12,880
you know, 10 or 12 carousel 
pics, write a review and I can 

919
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:16,840
be done with it in, you know, an
hour, an hour and a half. 

920
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:20,520
You shoot a YouTube video. 
I mean, before you even get to 

921
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,560
editing you you were shooting 
forever content because you got 

922
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:25,320
to you got to make sure you get 
what you need to get. 

923
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:28,080
And that means, you know, 
usually multiple takes on things

924
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:33,640
and then you've got to edit all 
that stuff to it's a lot it it's

925
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:35,800
a lot. 
It is a lot of work. 

926
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:37,680
It is definitely a lot of. 
Work. 

927
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,040
I admire you. 
I admire you all and everyone 

928
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:41,680
that does that that's that's 
amazing. 

929
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,960
Look. 
So talking about platforms that 

930
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:47,680
we want to join, you want to 
join you too? 

931
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:55,400
I want to get on Twitch man, but
live streaming terrifies me too.

932
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,320
Yeah. 
Because I'm with you on that. 

933
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:03,160
I'm really not good at talking 
by myself, which is another 

934
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:06,360
reason why I think I've had 
trouble, you know, trying to 

935
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:09,800
enter the YouTube platform is 
because, you know, maybe if I 

936
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,240
have a teleprompter and I'm 
reading off a review that I've 

937
00:50:12,240 --> 00:50:14,960
already written for Instagram 
and pretending like I'm saying 

938
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:20,400
it to you, I don't know, maybe. 
But just talking, I, I so admire

939
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:22,960
the people that can do that. 
I mean, there's a lot of really 

940
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:25,760
amazing people on YouTube that 
are brilliant at that. 

941
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:29,480
And I know they spend a lot of 
time into, you know, scripting 

942
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:31,160
things out. 
And, you know, I know it's not 

943
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:34,040
all, you know, just free form 
off the top of their head, but 

944
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:35,880
they do a lot of it and they're 
really good at it. 

945
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:38,720
And I am so jealous of people 
that can do that. 

946
00:50:38,720 --> 00:50:43,000
That is amazing to me. 
I absolutely agree with you. 

947
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:47,440
One thing that this series has 
taught me, connecting with so 

948
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:51,000
many of my guests who are really
active on Twitch. 

949
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:53,480
I thought Twitch was for video 
gamers. 

950
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:57,280
Nope, it's not. 
It's not. 

951
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:00,680
Yeah. 
I mean, Bonds does so much, 

952
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:01,840
right? 
She does video games. 

953
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:05,000
She'll also do live streams of 
playing a board game. 

954
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:07,880
So now you won't talk about 
editing. 

955
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:09,600
Let's talk about a camera 
looking at me. 

956
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:13,400
But then I've got a camera on 
top of my table doing that, and 

957
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:14,800
then I'm going to need multiple 
ink. 

958
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:18,200
Yay, yay. 
This it's you got to have your 

959
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:22,280
live chat going. 
It's it's scary. 

960
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:25,960
It is scary. 
Now I know that Bonds and 

961
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:29,360
Amanda, Amanda Panda, who's also
been on the show, she's going 

962
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:31,320
to, they're both going to be 
like PJ, you can just do it, 

963
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:32,960
right? 
I think that was their advice. 

964
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:34,720
That was their advice. 
Just just do it. 

965
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:38,200
Which brings me to my next 
question for you, and I've been 

966
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:41,000
asking this of everybody, What 
advice do you have for someone 

967
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:42,400
who's like, hey, you know what, 
Jerry? 

968
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:45,160
I've been playing board games, 
let's say a local guy in your 

969
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:46,880
game group. 
Hey, I want to start making 

970
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:49,240
content too and getting some 
review copies and stuff. 

971
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:52,040
What advice do you have to 
anyone who wants to get into 

972
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,080
this? 
Don't do it. 

973
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,520
No, I'm kidding. 
No, I would say the most 

974
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,120
important thing, at least for 
me, and I think a lot of people 

975
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:03,120
would would have this advice, is
keep doing what you like doing. 

976
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:06,560
Whatever content you put out 
there, make it stuff that you 

977
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:09,960
enjoy. 
If you go into this trying to 

978
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:12,160
please other people, you're 
going to make yourself 

979
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:14,840
miserable. 
I mean, that is the number one 

980
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:18,320
thing that I can say to you is, 
is make yourself happy. 

981
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:21,960
And if you're happy, that joy 
will be contagious. 

982
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:29,480
Wow, that was well said. 
Thank you, that was that's 

983
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:31,600
really honestly the best piece 
of advice I can give. 

984
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:34,600
I gotta tell you, I've heard 
some really great throughout 

985
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:37,360
this series. 
The answer to that question just

986
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:39,960
kind of man, I tell you what, 
This is why I love this 

987
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:42,280
community so much. 
Yeah, that was good. 

988
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,800
Thank you. 
So Speaking of loving the 

989
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:49,160
community, because as we're 
getting to the end, everyone's 

990
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:52,640
used to these two questions, the
first question is, So what is it

991
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:56,440
that to your mind, the community
does really well that you're so 

992
00:52:56,440 --> 00:53:01,360
proud to be a part of it? 
I I think the community is 

993
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:05,920
really, really good at being 
inclusive and that is so 

994
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:10,560
important. 
I think this community, in 

995
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:13,760
addition to being inclusive and 
making sure that people feel 

996
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:20,320
like they're always welcome, I 
feel so little toxicity in the 

997
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:22,880
board game community. 
Not, I'm not going to say it's 

998
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:25,120
not there at all. 
Obviously there are specific 

999
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:31,440
situations, but in general, the 
board game community and content

1000
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:34,760
creators within the community, I
mean, it's like we're all 

1001
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:36,840
A-Team. 
We're all supporting each other 

1002
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:41,080
rather than competing with each 
other, you know, and I love that

1003
00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:42,920
so much. 
And that is really kind of 

1004
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:46,480
probably what's kept me in the 
game as long as I have been 

1005
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:48,720
without, you know, having to 
take a break to go. 

1006
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:51,560
I just need to get away from 
this environment for a while. 

1007
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:54,400
I don't need to get away from an
environment that's super 

1008
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:55,800
supportive. 
You know, I don't need to get 

1009
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:57,960
away from an environment that's 
super inclusive. 

1010
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:02,160
I love that, you know, people 
thrive in that and I that just 

1011
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:05,960
makes me love this community and
be so proud to be a part of it. 

1012
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:09,680
Is is those two things. 
Yeah, yeah, I, I, I definitely 

1013
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:12,600
think that that's, that's the 
the common thread. 

1014
00:54:13,240 --> 00:54:16,320
Everyone seems to say it's, 
it's, it's some version of that,

1015
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:18,560
but I definitely like the way 
you put that. 

1016
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:22,080
That's really good. 
On the flip side, is there 

1017
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:25,960
something that you've seen that 
maybe the community needs to do 

1018
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:28,760
better at? 
Right, here's a moment for 

1019
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:33,680
fraternal correction. 
Wow, this, this, this is a tough

1020
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:35,760
one. 
The things that I would normally

1021
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,920
answer are are things that I 
feel like our community does 

1022
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:41,400
well. 
Like I, I feel like, man, I 

1023
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:42,880
really wish people were more 
accepted. 

1024
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:45,680
Man, I really wish people were 
more, you know, supportive. 

1025
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:47,840
Man, I really, but we are those 
things. 

1026
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:53,720
I I guess if anything, I would 
say don't judge people by what 

1027
00:54:53,720 --> 00:54:56,560
they like. 
If they like playing Monopoly, 

1028
00:54:57,440 --> 00:54:59,440
don't criticize. 
You can criticize Monopoly 

1029
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:01,440
without criticizing people that 
like Monopoly. 

1030
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:04,760
I don't love Monopoly, but if 
you like Monopoly, great be, you

1031
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:08,280
know, fantastic. 
And I think that applies, you 

1032
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:12,640
know, maybe even more to people 
who are like, why do you like 

1033
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:14,720
that? 
It's Colton the new Oh, why 

1034
00:55:14,720 --> 00:55:18,040
don't you like any new games? 
You know, on both sides of that,

1035
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:22,200
you know, coin is people that 
are like, well, I'm just I'm not

1036
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:25,400
going to like that game because 
it's, you know, it was made in 

1037
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:26,880
the last year, so it can't be 
any good. 

1038
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:30,240
Like my old game from 1975. 
This is a classic. 

1039
00:55:30,240 --> 00:55:32,520
It'll always be the best. 
Well, yeah, it probably is 

1040
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:33,720
really good. 
That's probably why it's still 

1041
00:55:33,720 --> 00:55:36,760
popular since 1975. 
But it doesn't mean anything new

1042
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:41,080
can't be same time if you're 
only playing new games, if 

1043
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:43,520
you're only playing new 
releases, if you never allow 

1044
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:48,080
yourself to go back and enjoy 
Viticulture, which it's 

1045
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:51,280
Viticulture isn't exactly 
ancient, but I mean, it's been 

1046
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:53,760
around for a while. 
You don't really see a lot of 

1047
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:56,200
content about it now because 
it's not a new game. 

1048
00:55:56,920 --> 00:56:01,320
I think maybe what our community
could do more of is featuring 

1049
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:06,480
games that are classic games. 
Let people know that hey you, 

1050
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:08,760
there's a lot of new releases 
coming out and we're going to 

1051
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:10,080
talk about all these new 
releases. 

1052
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:12,360
But man, have you ever played 
Viticulture? 

1053
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:14,480
Because maybe you're brand new 
to the hobby. 

1054
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:17,920
You just come in, in the last 
year or two, realize how good 

1055
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:21,520
Viticulture is, you know, 
realize how good Wingspan is. 

1056
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:23,440
That's been around for three or 
four years now. 

1057
00:56:23,720 --> 00:56:28,000
If you're brand new to the 
hobby, I think we could probably

1058
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:32,000
do a better job of not just 
featuring brand new games all 

1059
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:36,400
the time and saying, hey, let 
let me show you what the 

1060
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:39,640
foundation that brought you to 
where we are today. 

1061
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:42,920
Yeah. 
If we focus a little more on 

1062
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:45,120
that, and and I'm not saying 
this as a person, that's like 

1063
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:47,280
the call to the new because I 
love new games. 

1064
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:51,040
Yes, you do El Leo Galileo, you 
know, so I'm not trying to I'm 

1065
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:52,640
trying. 
I'm trying to straddle the fence

1066
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:57,400
of that, I guess of saying, 
look, both sides are are right, 

1067
00:56:57,400 --> 00:56:59,680
because both sides have great 
games. 

1068
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:02,160
Don't alienate the other side. 
Yeah. 

1069
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:06,320
And I think what's interesting 
is that you're a person who you 

1070
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:13,200
get a lot of review copies of 
new games and, and coming along 

1071
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:15,680
with that is there's an 
expectation and a requirement 

1072
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:18,160
that you create content for that
new game. 

1073
00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:22,800
So but you also recognize, you 
know, there's a reason why I 

1074
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:27,640
love Viticulture and revisiting 
that love is just as valid. 

1075
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:32,440
Yeah. 
Yeah, sometimes I, you know, I 

1076
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:34,880
talked about how I like to go 
to, to conventions and meet with

1077
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:38,040
publishers face to face and, and
I'm always, you know, in the 

1078
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:40,520
grind. 
And one of my, what I could do 

1079
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:42,880
better personally, not the 
community necessarily, but me 

1080
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:46,000
personally, is I need to learn. 
And, and we've talked about this

1081
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:48,960
off air a little bit. 
I need to learn even better how 

1082
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:53,520
to say no sometimes, which seems
like such a foreign concept for 

1083
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:58,160
someone who worked so hard just 
to get yeses for me to turn 

1084
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:00,600
around and now have to say no to
some people. 

1085
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:05,320
It is so difficult to do that. 
It is so difficult to do that. 

1086
00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:08,680
I just, I remember being out of 
my mind ecstatic when the first 

1087
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:13,000
few review copies rolled in and 
I was actually getting, you 

1088
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:17,680
know, wow, a company thinks that
I'm worth sending a new game to,

1089
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:21,480
to now having to turn around and
go, I'm really sorry, but I have

1090
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:24,440
got a backlog of games to 
review. 

1091
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:26,680
And again, I know first world 
problems. 

1092
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:28,480
Wayne, you have too many fun 
games to play. 

1093
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:34,880
But at its base, it is still an 
issue if you have to learn how 

1094
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:38,800
to to, to say no in a way that 
doesn't make the publisher think

1095
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:41,600
that you're like, well, I'm so 
big now, I don't have time for 

1096
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:44,080
your silly little game. 
Like, that's not it at all, 

1097
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:46,200
right? 
I would never think that of 

1098
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:47,960
myself. 
I've told you this before. 

1099
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:50,560
Like, I don't even like the term
influencer because I think it 

1100
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:53,240
sounds arrogant. 
All of my friends have to call 

1101
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:55,800
me content creator. 
They can't call me influencer. 

1102
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:57,520
It's just, it just sounds so 
arrogant to me. 

1103
00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:00,640
I don't know what it is. 
I know I can, silly. 

1104
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:01,480
That's so silly. 
I. 

1105
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:05,400
Can confirm to everyone 
listening that every time that I

1106
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:09,920
see Jerry and we usually see 
each other between 3 and 4 * a 

1107
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:12,440
year, you always say that. 
Yeah. 

1108
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:15,920
So yeah, he's he's again, you 
can count on Jerry. 

1109
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:20,720
He's genuine and honest. 
He really doesn't like to be 

1110
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:23,360
consult called an influencer. 
I respect that. 

1111
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:27,080
I respect that The reality might
be different. 

1112
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:31,920
You know, my my family even 
tells me that my wife is all of 

1113
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:34,360
the time saying, see, you're an 
influencer, see, you're an 

1114
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:36,960
influencer. 
And I don't know what it is 

1115
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:39,040
about the term. 
Like there's nothing wrong with 

1116
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:41,200
the term. 
You know, inherently there's 

1117
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:44,280
nothing wrong with the term. 
If you have the ability to put 

1118
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:47,400
out content that makes people 
think, maybe I want to go try 

1119
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:52,760
that game, then by purest 
definition, sure, right. 

1120
00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:56,360
But for, I don't know what it 
is, but for me, the last thing, 

1121
00:59:56,840 --> 01:00:01,000
one of the most important things
for me as just a human being is 

1122
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:06,400
for people not to think that I 
am somehow arrogant or somehow 

1123
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:10,760
think that I'm full of myself or
think that I'm not approachable 

1124
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:14,640
or any of those things. 
Like just on a fundamental human

1125
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:17,520
level, for me, it's important 
for people not to think those 

1126
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:20,000
things about me. 
And I try not. 

1127
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:22,720
Some people call it like false 
humility. 

1128
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:24,320
If you're an influencer, you 
should just say you're an 

1129
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:25,840
influencer. 
I struggle with that. 

1130
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:26,560
It's a. 
Struggle. 

1131
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:28,440
I get that. 
I do understand that. 

1132
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:32,840
And note, note that this is the 
content creator community 

1133
01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:38,520
series, right? 
I, I don't know, I don't think I

1134
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:40,880
do. 
I think of I think of everyone 

1135
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:44,240
as content creators. 
Like when I think about you, 

1136
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:47,040
when I think about everyone 
we've mentioned on the show, I 

1137
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:48,680
don't think of them as 
influencers. 

1138
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:55,520
You may be, you might be an 
influencer in so far as you've 

1139
01:00:55,560 --> 01:01:01,440
influenced me to buy a game or 
try a game or that or that too. 

1140
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:05,320
But I think you're a content 
creator because you create 

1141
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:07,120
content. 
And I think it's the 

1142
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:11,200
intentionality that separates 
you from just a casual gamer, 

1143
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:13,640
right? 
You're a gamer who takes a 

1144
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:15,600
picture of a game and say, look 
what I played today. 

1145
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:19,520
And, and yes, that's making 
content and therefore you're a 

1146
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:21,680
content creator. 
But I, I really think it's the 

1147
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:25,720
intentionality of the content 
that you create, whether it's 

1148
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:29,600
short form or long form. 
I and you know, we've had this 

1149
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:31,440
coverage. 
I've said it a lot on the show. 

1150
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:33,200
I don't think I'm a content 
creator. 

1151
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:37,440
I think of myself as a podcaster
because the the forms are 

1152
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:41,200
different, the workload is 
different, but it's still 

1153
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:43,320
content. 
I'm still a content creator. 

1154
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:45,040
It is. 
It definitely is. 

1155
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:48,760
And if I'm an influential? 
When I'm driving to Gincon or 

1156
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:52,920
driving to Origins and I've got 
to spend 7 or 8 hours in my car,

1157
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:55,560
I need some board game content 
and it's coming from BJ. 

1158
01:01:56,520 --> 01:02:00,440
And, and I will be perfectly 
honest, the few weeks leading up

1159
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:01,760
to Origins are Gen. 
Con. 

1160
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:04,760
When I'm recording an episode. 
I actually picture you in my 

1161
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:08,160
mind's eye when I'm recording 
because I know. 

1162
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:10,920
Sitting in the car listening. 
I know Jerry's going to be 

1163
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:13,640
driving to Columbus, driving to 
Indianapolis, He's going to be 

1164
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:15,480
listening. 
And so I'm like, I'm thinking 

1165
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:20,120
about you driving in the car, 
listening, right? 

1166
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:23,160
I think that's why I really 
enjoyed when Cassidy came on 

1167
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:24,520
just before Gen. 
Con. 

1168
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:27,280
I'm sorry, I don't know which 
episode that was, but you can 

1169
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:29,000
definitely find it. 
We talked about a Tourette's 

1170
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:32,320
syndrome and all the triggers 
and going to a big convention. 

1171
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:35,360
That was a great episode. 
She's such a fantastic. 

1172
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:37,520
Person so good, you're a lucky 
man. 

1173
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:40,920
Would behoove me to speak highly
of her because she was so kind 

1174
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:42,840
in the way that she spoke about 
me. 

1175
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:44,760
She is a wonderful person, that 
she is. 

1176
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:46,920
I mean. 
You are so lucky to have her 

1177
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:49,480
living nearby. 
Yeah, I agree. 

1178
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:50,480
I agree. 
Yeah. 

1179
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:53,800
So so Cassidy, shout out to you.
We love you dearly. 

1180
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:55,760
Keep listening and keep playing 
games. 

1181
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:59,200
So yeah. 
So why don't you I know you 

1182
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:01,240
don't need to because we've 
talked about it, but why don't 

1183
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:03,440
you tell everybody where they 
can find you on what? 

1184
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:05,520
That's the Instagram and TikTok 
is where you are. 

1185
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:06,960
That's where they can find you. 
I. 

1186
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:08,440
Actually do have a YouTube 
channel. 

1187
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:10,240
I posted some shorts there. 
OK. 

1188
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:14,360
If I ever get more involved 
it'll probably, at least to 

1189
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:16,440
begin with, be more more and 
more shorts. 

1190
01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:19,280
I'm thankful to YouTube for 
creating, creating that platform

1191
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:22,240
for people like me that don't 
really do a lot of long, you 

1192
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:26,360
know, long form video. 
But yes, I'm on Instagram my my 

1193
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:28,640
handle. 
Do you call it handles? 

1194
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:31,480
Now handle user name whatever. 
User name sure. 

1195
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:36,600
At tabletop under score 
worldwide there is a little 

1196
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:38,040
under score between the two 
words via. 

1197
01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:42,040
At under score tabletop 
worldwide, it is that exact same

1198
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:46,080
handle username on TikTok. 
It is the exact same one on 

1199
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:48,840
YouTube. 
You can find me in any of those 

1200
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:51,280
locations. 
You're probably gonna get my 

1201
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:55,000
best and brightest from 
Instagram, but we are trying to 

1202
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:58,040
broaden our horizon so. 
Broaden them. 

1203
01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:00,080
Broaden them, Jerry. 
Absolutely. 

1204
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:04,160
Well, Jerry, thank you so much. 
It's great to talk to you again.

1205
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:06,400
It's been so many months. 
It's good to see you again. 

1206
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:09,240
As always, guys, please hit the 
like and subscribe button and 

1207
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:10,840
comment. 
I'm there. 

1208
01:04:11,160 --> 01:04:15,040
And as always, be kind to each 
other and let's play more game.