Hey friends, and welcome to episode 155 of Meeple.
To Meeple. It is a true dozen episode
number 12 in my content creator community series.
Guys, thanks for joining and on this journey with me.
It's been a wild ride so far. My guest today is a dear friend
who I've known for several years, who I think it's safe to
say has seen me at my best but has also seen me at my absolute
worst. He has seen me at my top of joy
and emotional meltdowns, so this is going to be a great
conversation. In his social media, he
showcases new titles and is constantly reviewing new games.
I can't keep up with all the games that he's reviewing, and
he has managed to curate a community of inclusivity of
every publisher around. He, more than anyone, has his
finger on the pulse of this industry, and we're going to dig
into how he has built that kind of engagement with publishers
and designers and what it takes to create content that actually
connects people and why Community isn't just a buzzword,
it's the entire game at the table.
So settle in. Let's jump into it.
It's Jerry from Tabletop Worldwide.
Jerry, thanks for joining. How are you?
Great. Thanks and happy New Year.
Yes, Happy New Year to you as well.
Oh yeah, today is 12th night. It is January 6th if you're
listening to this. On the day that it drops, that
means that Christmas is over and Mardi Gras will begin.
So. So what's been going on with you
lately? You know the holidays are pretty
much to an end. 2025 is finally behind us.
Yeah, it's, it's one of those things where either a vacation
from your vacation, right. That's been a lot of a lot of
fun, friends and family and and games, which is always, always
fun. Yeah, it's, you know, we're
trying to get back into the swing of things now with the new
year, and so far so good. So taking a take a quick look
back, taking a look back, how has 2025, you know, we had a lot
of fears like in the middle of it, right?
What was going to go on trades and tariffs and there's not
going to be games and people lost their jobs and so much, you
know, all this. Yeah.
Would you, how would you rate 2025 in terms of the industry,
right? Well, it was tough.
It was really tough, you know, unfortunately a few didn't
survive it. And you know, I'm not sure that
we'll know the full impact of it for for quite some time.
It's sad to see some publishers that go by the wayside and
through no fault of their own, nothing they did wrong, you
know, and yet, you know, they have to to deal with the
circumstances. That's, that's truly terrible.
On the other side, we, we had some really good things happen.
We had, you know, a lot of new, new games come out.
We have new publishers that are popping up all the time.
So I, I like to try to, to balance them some good thoughts
with the bad. It was a rough time, but for me
personally, it was my first time ever going to PAX Unplugged.
So that was a great new experience.
Hey, there you go. Yeah, so you have bad, but yeah.
You hit the trifecta this year, right?
Origins, Gen. Con and PAX Unplugged.
Yeah, this was my first year getting to do all three and I
would love to be able to do that.
The good thing about Origins and Gen.
Con is even though I live all the way down in Atlanta, they
are just on the edge of what I'm comfortable driving to.
So I can drive to Origins, I can drive to to Gen.
Con packs I have to fly to. There's no way I'm driving 1416
hours, whatever it is to get to Philadelphia from Atlanta.
So I don't know if I'll be able to do that every year just
because of the extra expense, but hopefully because man, being
able to hit the trifecta in one year was just.
I think I can still see you're on that high coming.
You're still on it. Well, it's really great because
you know, if for a number of reasons, number one, you know,
we're going to talk a lot about community today and that is
those three big cons. There's a lot of smaller cons
that I attend as well. I mean, you and I have both been
to Tennessee game days. I'm a few times and you know, I
go to tantrum con and a few other things.
But but the big ones are always great because that is where you
get to see so many of the people that mostly you only get to talk
to online. You know, you're, you're, you're
on, you know, chatting with them or sending texts or or whatever.
But you know, being face to face, you know, across the table
from them playing game or just getting a Big Bear hug from PJ,
whatever it is that it makes the whole thing, they're just super
extra special. I think my highlight of our
2025, we, we saw each other Tennessee game days.
We saw each other at Origins and at Gen.
Con. I think it was that that Skull
King tournament at Gen. Con on that Friday morning.
Yeah. That was correct.
They split us up into two groups of eight, right?
Because it's a Max player of eight and you and I couldn't sit
any further away from. Me.
It's just kind of like, hey, Jerry.
I was wondering if you planned it that way?
That's not, that's not how it worked.
It was really funny, the look on your face when you realize what
I was doing because I couldn't hear the rules and I didn't
quite understand. I mean, I knew it was a trick
ticking game. I understood that.
I had decided that the only way for me to learn to play was to
just absolutely throw it and lose the game.
And the look on your face until you realize what I was doing,
you're like, what are you? Because that's so.
And I'm like, I'm not trying to signal.
You down the table. Wait.
No feature? No.
That was a fantastic thing. Is is if you had, you know, one
of the strategies in that game is that you can lose on purpose
to gain more points. And if you had done that, you
probably would have won the whole thing.
So what you're telling me is, is that I did a terrible job at
losing is? Well, no, you did a fantastic
job at losing, but that just made you a.
Winner is what I I didn't lose enough.
Hey, Speaking of games, let me ask you.
This is the question I start all these episodes with and I
honestly don't think I know this.
I don't think you and I have ever shared this.
What was the first game you ever played as a kid?
As a kid, let's see not but I was on the original game of
chess. Oh yeah, that was that was 3032,
hundred years ago, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm pretty sure 3200 though, don't you?
You look great, we have to talk about your skin routine after.
That no, I'm trying to think my my parents had some of the
classics, you know, that we had, we had monopoly.
We had sorry, we had all of the the old school classics that you
probably couldn't pay me to play now.
Yeah. Which, hey, look, if you're a
person that likes those games, no, no, you know, no insulting.
Absolutely. I just, I have played those
games specifically because they're all we had growing UPS
so many times. And now I know it's out there
now. So it's like I, I can't even.
But yeah, I think, you know, back when I was a kid, probably
a lot of those classics like Boggle was one that we played a
lot because my mom loved word games.
All right, Yeah. So yeah, a lot of that.
And we played a lot of card games too, rummy and stuff like
that. So yeah, that's kind of how I
grew up. So trick taking games just come
naturally to you. Honestly, spades.
When we learn spades, holy moly. We played spades like there was
no other game on earth. And if we didn't play 20 times a
day, we might starve. You know, we, we played spades
like crazy people, I think. And we would have people over
and we would have like little mini tournaments of spades.
And yeah, that game was yeah, yeah.
So I did a lot of trick taking, growing.
Up so good and there's been a trend.
I know you know, this been a trend of a lot of trick taking
games lately. I really have.
Yeah, and you know, and a lot of what I never thought would have
even been possible in cooperative trip taking games,
right, Which I, I, I couldn't have even like when I first
heard of like the Crew and, and there's probably ones before
that, but that was the big one that first caught my attention
anyway, as far as cooperative trip taking goes.
And I thought, how in the world can you cooperatively take?
Like I didn't even understood how that was.
I know, but man, did it work, right.
Like the crew, we had the best show and there's been so many
since then. I mean, most recently for me,
the office dog game, The Lord of the Rings trip taking game.
Yep. So good.
Yes. So you're actually playing a
cooperative trick taking story. Yes.
Which is yeah, amazing. So good.
Love office dog. You and I, you and I were
talking about that at Tennessee game days.
You were telling me about the game and then because of the
local game group that I have here in Springfield, either
don't like or don't want to play Trick Taker.
So it was kind of I couldn't play it.
I will tell you this though, I did get a chance to play it when
I was in Anna. I was in Anaheim the end of
August and I got to get together with Jen and Raleigh, bored for
two, and we went to a local board game Cafe.
Nice. So shout out to them and they
brought along the Lord of the Rings trick take to that game.
Isn't it good? It's so good, so good.
Right. And so now the new one that I
guess the 2nd chapter, yeah, the two towers one, I just, I want
to play the whole thing. Why can't they just release them
all at once? I want to play the whole thing.
I know, but to see that's how they get you, Jerry.
I know, I know. You're right.
And they and they do. I mean, I am.
I am totally got. So do you have you got a
favorite player color I. Always play green now and it
didn't used to be that way. I used to always play red
because if you know me at all, I.
Thought yeah. Yeah, if you know me at all,
outside of the board gaming world, I'm a graduate of the
University of Georgia. I am a huge Georgia Bulldogs
fan. And because of that, I would
always try to play with the red meeple.
Well, you know, I, as my son, grew up and started playing
games with me. Well, he wanted to be the red
meeple because, you know, he's the George and, you know, try to
be a good dad and encourage them to play games.
I'll let him have the red Maple. And so I just always started
playing with green and green now that he is my oldest is now at
college himself, so he's out of the house.
But I, I just still keep playing green.
I've gotten used to it now. Is is he?
Did he go to Georgia? He is actually at Kennesaw
State. Which?
Is a college just on the northeastern northwestern side
of Atlanta? Loving it over there.
For those of you keeping score, there's no rivalry.
So that is a perfectly acceptable school for Jerry's
son to go to. That's.
Right. And he's still, he's still a
huge George fan, even though he's going to miss all states.
That's never going to change. You know, that's not going to
change. I don't even if I didn't go to
LSU, I'm I would be an LSU fan simply by virtue.
If that's part of the cultural DNA, you know that is.
Yeah, absolutely. You know that, which is why I
play person. There's not a lot and we should
probably move on because I don't want you to lose viewers.
But there's not a lot of crossover it seems like with me
between, you know, being fans of of of college football or the
NFL and being huge board gamers, which makes me really sad.
But everyone that I game with here is both so right.
It's awesome because we can play games and talk football at the
same time and which is just perfect combination I think.
I think it's the sport because here in the Midwest, what I'm
experiencing is they all care about baseball.
Oh yeah. Right.
Yeah, Springfield is in the middle of Saint Louis and
Chicago. So it's like the Cardinals and
the Cubs and every board gamer here in the Midwest are also not
everyone, but a lot of them are all baseball fans.
So yeah, I think it's I think it's just the sport of choice.
I've been fortunate enough to be to Wrigley, to go to Wrigley
Field a couple of times when I've been in Chicago on business
trips. And man, I mean that.
The whole aura of that place, wow.
Yep. Yeah, so.
Yeah. But anyway, before we lose too
many more viewers. Right, OK, so here comes here
comes the two-part question that I've been asking everyone and
the reason why it's two parts. I think this will be the last
time I say this. I'm not going to explain it
anymore, but I've explained it 12 Times Now.
The reason it's got two parts is because I have love and
compassion for you and I've and people find the first part to be
rather difficult. Do so Part 1.
Do you have a favorite board game of all time?
Difficult question that. Is like oh sorry did you want
to? Go, I do, Let me tell you, Part
2, if you don't have an answer to Part 1 because I realize it's
a challenge. Part 2 is where the compassion
comes in. Do you have a favorite board
game right now that's hitting your table all the time?
OK, All right. So the answer to Part 1 is I
don't think I'd have one favorite game.
I have a group of games that if I had to call down to like 10
games, I could probably nail the 10 games, but I don't really
just have one that jumps immediate.
Now I can do this. I can tell you what my like
favorite game of 2025 was. My favorite game of 2024 was if
you're interested in that, but like one for all time.
I just I I don't think I do. We're going to pivot since it is
the new year. Since it's the new year, let's
quickly look back at 2025. That's perfectly natural.
What was your favorite game of 2025?
South the my favorite game of 2025.
I don't know if a lot of people will say this.
It's not that it's like an obscure game, but it wasn't one
that just was like I'm in your face all the time.
You know that that everyone was featuring constantly, but my
favorite game of 2025 was from Capstone Games and that was
Galileo Galilei. Love, love that game so much.
My wheelhouse is, you know, mid euro type games.
I love everything about what they did with that game.
It is so good. And that designer, I mean, talk
about coming out of nowhere and hitting Grand Slam after Grand
Slam after Grand Slam. I mean, the same guy that did
SETI, same guy that did Tea Garden.
I mean, like, OK guy, you know. Yeah, Yep.
So I met, I met Tomas Holek at the Capstone Games booth.
He was signing copies of Galileo at Gen.
Con. I had forgotten to bring, I
wanted to bring my rule book or something because I already own
the game to have him sign it. But I forgot.
But it was more important that I give him my business card and
tell him about the podcast because I really want him on the
show. Nice.
Actually, I got face to face with him and I got to talk to
him for a few minutes and the the look on his face suggested
he had no idea who I was and what I was talking about.
I suspect I made a fool of myself.
But you know what? No, it's OK.
I haven't heard from him since but.
Well, he doesn't know what he's missing out, no.
I shook the hand. The design.
Galileo Galilei. That's a good choice.
Yeah, that's a good. I just it's beautiful on the
table when it looks as good as it plays and it plays that good
like it just wow. Yep.
If you guys have not tried it, go try recommendation.
Got to, you've got to do it. You've got to do it.
That's great. So you said that you didn't have
a favorite of all time, but you kind of have a top 10.
So I think that lends the next question.
Do you have a favorite board game mechanic that you
absolutely love despite the theme?
I have two if that's OK. It is perfect because everyone
else has two. That seems to be the consensus.
I absolutely love worker placement games.
It did take me about six months to realize that it's not work
replacement. It is work replacement.
Hey, you gotta learn sometime, right?
Yes. When I was first playing, I it
was really funny is when I was first playing and learning about
all the different mechanics. As I was kind of getting into
this whole world. I told one of my friends, or I
think I asked him, hey, do you have any worker placement games?
Like worker placement you mean? You mean playing a game instead
of going to work? What are you talking about?
And I was like, am I not saying that right?
No, I was not saying that right. But yes, worker placement games.
Probably my #1 mechanic, but a close #2 if not tied.
I love deck builders, deck builders, back builders.
Mostly deck builders but games like quack.
Also quacks of Quinlenburg. I also really like that.
One so good. But yeah, I love deck builders.
Think if one of my very, very good friends of gaming would
absolutely slay me if I didn't mention Dominion as the greatest
deck builder of all time, that is.
That is his favorite game. And not only that, he is someone
that I got to go to Gen. Con with me one year and he's
since come back and taken his family and has twice won the
one, at least one of the Dominion tournaments at Gen.
Con two different years he's. Get out of here.
That's. Awesome.
Yeah. So if I don't mention Dominion
when I'm mentioning deck builders, he would kill.
There you go. Hey, so tell me, what is it
about worker placement games that you enjoy?
You did say it was kind of your number one.
Yeah, it is one of the first games that still lives in those
final ten that I if I had to call down to 10 games is a game
called Champions of Midgard. And I love that game so much.
I could play that game. It insert large number here.
I could, I could play it a lot, right?
And so it was one of the first worker placement games that I
played. And the whole concept of being
able to, you know, when you, when you're moving into the game
of, of, of or sorry, when you're moving into the world of modern
board games and your whole upbringing, upbringing rather,
was roll dice and move a, a piece down the board to be able
to tell me you can take that piece now and put it anywhere
you want to and take whatever action you want to.
Yep. Oh my gosh, yes, please, let's
do that. Yes.
So yeah, I just, I just love it. And then, you know, like I said,
playing the Champions of Midgard early on in my in my modern
board game, I just submitted that as as just being, I love
that mechanic. What's your take on what do they
call it? Dice.
Placement dice.
Placement. Worker dice placement games,
Yeah. I don't like it as much as
traditional worker placement because it feels like a lot of
times it feels like well, you know, you roll and then based on
your role, you have to choose from a more limited selection
because you know, fours can only go here, here, here.
It's OK. I've played some games like
that. Shoot, I can't find it.
One of the you might have to cut and edit here a little bit.
That's OK. The directional games from, you
know, like Raiders of the North Sea and that but.
But but the new. Garfield, Garfield.
Games something of the tie. I can't remember the name of the
game now but it is all about dice placement and it's it's
fine. Like I don't I don't dislike the
game. I would maybe choose something
else with a more pure order placement.
So you like the W King? You like the West Kingdom
trilogy? Yeah.
And I love Raiders of the North Sea is also from the ones before
the Western Kingdoms, but I mean, gosh, they they can hardly
do any wrong either, right? Like they just keep putting out
hit after hit after hit so. I I will say there's one game
that it's, it's the, is it the Age of Atlantis?
So it's an interesting board. First of all, it's a circular
board, which I didn't know that that was like a thing and I
loved, I love it. I'm here for circular boards.
So your, your Atlantis, your workers are dice.
But instead of having pips on the dice, it's like a, a worker
icon. And you can, you can like they
can take a rest action and that lets you turn it to a different
side, which then makes it a stronger worker.
So it's kind of interesting in worker placement games, you
place a worker, you get the resource and either that worker
is stuck until the end of the round, or it's it's stuck until
somebody kicks him out or whatever.
What I find interesting is you place this worker and you get,
let's say you get double the resources in that space.
If you leave it there, you can turn the pit down and you'll get
single the so it's like, even though I can't bring him back to
place the next round, he's still producing for me.
He's still working. It's it's kind of an interesting
mechanic that I've not seen in dice placement games.
That's kind of cool. Age of Atlantis guys, check that
out if you want. And if not, that sounds.
Interesting. Yeah.
It's really interesting to me how it seems like, you know, in,
in its purest form there, there are only like 8 or 10 or 12
mechanics out there, but people are finding now ways to tweak
those mechanics. Like it used to be, you know,
trick taking, now it's cooperative trick taking.
It used to be only worker placement, now it's dice
placement. And like they're, they're
finding ways to reinvigorate some of these, you know, old
school mechanics. And I love it.
I think it's fantastic. I'm totally here for it.
Hey, what's your take on Still talking about Worker placement
Is rock hard 1977. I had Jockey Fox on about 13
weeks ago. She talked about the game.
What's your take on that? You haven't played yet?
OK, so well then good. I will tell you about it.
So here's why I like it. It's a worker placement and you
only have one worker and that worker is you.
So OK. You know, you know the game, I
know you know the game. So the concept's really easy.
But the board and I would recommend guys, if you want to
know more about Rock Art 1977, go back to episode 143 just
before the content creator series started.
And we had Jackie Fox talk all about it.
Listen to her talk about negotiating contracts with a
publisher. That was some intense.
I didn't know we were going there, but we went there.
So the board is divided into daytime actions, evening
actions, and after hours. So you can only take one action
per phase. But you also have a job, so you
have to go to work. So you could skip work three
times before you lose your job. Ultimately you want to lose your
job, but it's like you only have this one worker.
So just like it really mimics real life.
You're a musician trying to make it big and get gigs and get a
manager and record a demo and you gotta do all these really
cool things, but it's like, I've never seen a game where you only
had one worker. It's.
Interesting. Yeah, you're gonna have to check
that out. Yeah, I played some games where
you've had like maybe only two or three, but one at a time is
very interesting, yes. Just recently, Speakeasy by
Vital Laserda arrived at our doorstep.
Here's a worker placement where you start with four and then you
have three, and then you have 3 again and then you have one.
OK. Yes, you get fewer rather than
more. Right.
Interesting. Yeah, again, this is your, this
is your. Point is, people are taking
pre-existing mechanics and tweaking them ever so slowly.
And it's great. It like it just breathes new
life into you know, and anytime you can breathe new life into
the industry, hey. Absolutely, Absolutely.
Yeah. So tell me about, because you've
been at this for quite a while. Tell me about the time.
So you get into that, you get you grew up in the classics, you
then you are introduced to the modern board game hobby and at
some point you cease to be just a casual gamer to becoming an an
intentional content creator. Tell me about that shift.
It's very interesting that you phrased it that way because
first of all, I, I stumbled into modern board gaming almost
accidentally. I mean, I'll, I'll tell you
about that real quick. If that's if that's absolutely.
So my mom, before she passed, moved in with us and so she
loves games. And so I didn't want to bring
out all the old ones again. So I was trying to think of,
well, what kind of new games are out there?
What can I do? I started watching this web
series that Will Wheaton, the actor used to do called
Tabletop. He would have celebrities on to
play different board games and I found those interesting.
And then I just was scrolling through Facebook one day and I
saw two different families that I knew through another hobby,
geocaching that we had already hung out doing that hobby.
They were they had taken pictures and post to some of
them sitting around playing board games and I was like, that
looks really interesting. So you know, I messaged the guy
and I said, hey, just saw you guys are playing some board
games next time you guys get together, Hey, you know, it
might be I'd love to come and kind of sit in and see what this
is all about. And so just tumbling through on
Facebook and, and having, you know, my mom move in with us, it
just sort of happened like almost serendipitously, I don't.
Know right? So we started playing games, I
started getting new games in and I still had absolutely no
intention of becoming a content creator that that, I mean, it
wasn't even in my brain. It was just like, hey, what can
I do for some good family time? And then COVID came and, you
know, horrible time. Everybody's trapped in their
houses. Everybody's, you know, just
trying to do whatever they can to just get through the
situation. For us, we started playing even
more board games. Like, we had been doing a lot of
different kinds of family stuff, going out and doing stuff.
Now it was like board games, war games, war games.
And I just started posting some out on Instagram, not even
trying to do anything, just like, oh, here's what we did
tonight, you know, friends and whatever.
Started getting a few more followers and started getting
people asking me, Hey, what's I saw this game?
What is it? And so my son said, Dad, you
should try to do this. I kind of suggested.
And I was like, I mean, I guess I could, we're all stuck at
home. You know, nobody's really going
out and doing anything. Why not?
I'll just start. And he goes, well, he goes, the
first thing you need to do is you need a good name.
And I'm like, you haven't even thought of a name because again,
this was not even processing for me as a possibility.
And he said we are stuck in this house, but you want to let
everybody in the world know that you're trying to share games
with them. So you need a name like Tabletop
Worldwide and boom, that was it, he named it.
There it is. So my oldest son named, you
know, my, my brand, my platform when he was probably 12.
Well, maybe he's a little older, but, but sometime around 13
years old, he was like, here, here's here's what you need,
dad. And I'm like, hey, all right,
let's go. And so from then on, I just, I
threw your tabletop worldwide out there and it, it just grew.
People love board games. What can I say?
That's it. So, yeah, it was almost, it was
very, very much not intentional. And so moving to intentional,
which was I guess looping back to what your original question
was, was just the fact that, you know, we're all stuck indoors.
You know, we're all needed to try to come up with something
to, you know, entertain ourselves while we're trying to
get through this whole horrible crisis that we were in.
And that's what he and I kind of came up with together.
And I just, I just took it and ran with it.
And I kind of have this obsessive compulsive personality
that when I get something that I really like, I just dive in and
I just hammer, hammer, hammer, grind, grind, grind.
And been doing it ever since. I love it.
I love it, I love it. Tell me, tell me about, tell me
about the first review copy of a board game you ever received, if
you remember, because I know there's a lot of them.
Well, so that what I remember is the first one I ever did was
actually a prototype print and play of a game that was going to
be physical, but ironically enough never came out.
But what makes it really cool is is, you know, I, I was doing
this and I had considered the possibility once I dove in about
him possibly being able to, to get review copies from
published. My first goal as a content role
creator was can I actually get someone to send me a game?
That would be so cool if I could actually do that.
So the first thing I did was somehow I got a person who was
building a prototype of a game, contacted me through DM ING
through Instagram and said, Hey, would you be interested in
trying out this game? And I thought, absolutely, let's
let's go. This is what I'm here for.
So I printed it out. It was like this multi sheet of
built and I, I laminated it, I put it, I put it on a, a
cardboard that I cut out from a giant box.
And so I had my I had my I mean, I was, you were ready.
So into this I, I right around that time I got to some miles, I
think it was maybe 500 followers at the time, because this is
really, really, and the guy contacted me and said, Hey, I
noticed, you know, you're hitting a milestone.
You're kind of getting a few 100 followers now.
Do you need a logo? And the guy that had reached out
to me for my very first even print and play version of a
prototype game built me the logo for free that I still use today.
Yeah. And I love it.
I think it's classic. I think it's it's shows the
world. It shows a diversity of
different colors. And it also represents at the
same time, there's four different meeples above a globe.
And there are, you know, me and my wife and my two kids.
So it also represents our family at the same time.
Look at that. So.
That's great. Yeah, so I wanted to put it out
there. I wanted to let people know,
hey, we're here for the whole world.
We want a diversity of people within our group.
Everyone's welcome. And at the same time, here's my
family out here bringing this stuff to you.
And we hope you like it. So at some point though, you
began, and I mentioned this in the introduction because you
have managed to curate and cultivate this community of
designers and publishers. If there's a board game
publisher, you know, a minimum of one person, right?
Like what I want people to know this about you is if you want to
make connections and if you need to know well, who do I contact
at, you know, whatever, Ivy Studios, who do I contact for
Asma Day? Who do I contact for Wonderful
World board games? Jerry knows the contact.
And it's not like Jerry just knows the person's name.
He has a relationship with these contacts.
You have managed to do this over 5-6 years.
And I mean, it's incredible, you know?
Thank you. It's a, it was, it was a lot of
hard work. I, I mentioned how, you know,
nowadays it seems like when I go to conventions, I don't even see
a whole lot of the exhibit floor.
I go to Gen. Con and I'm like, I really need
to carve out some time to just walk through all of these booze
because I have a calendar, you know, and it's back-to-back to
back-to-back meetings because conventions are just great ways
to make those face to face connections, right?
For one thing, after hours and, and before the convention
starts, it's, it's an amazing time to be with other creators
and talk and hang out and play games with people that you don't
normally see face to face very often.
And then during the convention hours themselves.
I, I try to make that same connection with publishers and
I, I don't know everyone. I appreciate that.
I wish I did. There are still, there's still a
couple of publishers that I really, really want to get in
with. But I mean, you know, it's.
Close. It's kind of.
Close. I do still now I have I also
have some favorites of those, but I'm not going to mention
this because I don't want. To We don't want to.
We don't want it. No, we don't want to do that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there are. But there are, you know, like
like like with games themselves. There are some publishers that
are, I guess, more receptive and easier to get along with and
easier to talk to, and there are some that are not.
And that's fine #1 it's a business and they have to worry
about their business before anything else.
And I get that. And it's hard to understand a
lot of times when you get knows from publishers that it's
rarely, I won't say never, but it's rarely personal.
You know, they, they are doing what they think is in the best
interest of their business. And, and especially, you know,
with the tough times that we talked about, you know, with,
with all the tariffs and with everything being so expensive
for publishers now, you know, that affects us as content
creators as well, because there's not going to be as many,
you know, review copies. There's not going to be as many
opportunities because you know, they're having to deal with all
the stuff they're they're dealing with how far off down a
rabbit hole from what you were going?
No, Nope, no. How has that impacted your
productivity? See, I'm trying not to make it
sound like a job. How has Funny?
Though, because looking in from the outside, someone might think
it's a job because I work really hard now.
I, you know, oh, you poor guy, you're playing a bunch of board
games. But I mean, there's a lot of
other stuff that goes into it. You know, you spend a lot of
time, you know, researching titles.
You spend a lot of time, you know, writing and editing.
You spend a lot of time, especially if you're doing video
content like you're doing constantly.
I mean, you know, video editing takes forever.
And I am, you know, at this point, I'm, I have not.
And I keep saying I'm eventually going to move into YouTube and I
still have not taken that plunge.
I really want to, but I am doing a lot of like preview reels and
tik toks and short like short form videos for publishers now.
And, and even just doing that, I mean, the, the editing time on
those, it is crazy. So I can't even imagine, you
know what, what people like you and and Adam from tabletop
vibes, you know, with, with your full on YouTube channels.
I I can't even imagine what you guys are going through on that.
So it's really been interesting since this series started with
the conversation with Bonds, I've had the conversation with
everyone about the effort of long form versus short form.
And yes, it takes a lot. You and I will talk for an hour
and record this. I will spend three to six hours
editing. This I'm sure, I'm sure.
But, and I think you know this because you you're kind of a
guru at the short form because that's that's your wheelhouse,
right? That is the content you create
is short form content. Talk about how much work that
takes. You know, it really is, and I
don't even realize it myself sometimes because I will sit
down and I will shoot for a 62nd video.
You know, I might shoot 10 minutes worth of material.
And then you've got to narrow all of that down.
Do exactly what you want. You know, you do multiple shoots
for different, but what I do is a little bit different than than
you and I, I don't envy at all the six hours that you're
putting into editing all of these videos that you do.
But I do more. I do a lot of comedic stuff in
mind, so trying to find, you know, OK, how can I make this
line up right? I got to make this line hit in a
certain way. I've got to make sure the music
in the background is right, to kind, to kind of pep up what I'm
doing. Sometimes I'll put in video
effects I've got. I'm actually back in, what was
it? Towards the end of October of
last year, I was working on a video for a game called Dicey
Devices. And in that I had, you know,
laser beams coming out of people's eyes.
And I like all kinds of fun stuff like that.
And I start working on that. And if this is a 62nd video and
I will sit down at like 8:00 and like no kidding, I'm like 10/30,
11:00 I'm going oh gosh, I really need to wrap this up.
I can't believe I just spent 2 1/2 hours on a 62nd video.
This is insane. But it's fun.
I enjoy doing it and I get lost in it, you know, and that's and
that's what makes it so great is Oh my gosh, you spent two hours
on a 62nd video. Yeah, but it was so fun because
I'm like, oh, this is really going to make people laugh or
oh, people are going to get shocked when they see this and
and and kind of building that anticipation is is so fun, is so
fun. I had I.
Had a similar conversation with Grant Lyon when he was on this
series earlier this year, or I guess last year as it were.
We talked a lot about the delivery for creating.
I mean, obviously his primary career as a comedian and then
gaming is second. But we talked about how we
talked about cultivating the skill like you're cultivating
the skills of short form content, you're cultivating the
comedy. Whereas I cultivate, I never
cultivated that even as a child. I cultivated a more serious
analytical, you know, more humanistic.
I don't know what you want to call this, but it's like, you
know me, though it's not the human connection.
Yeah, absolutely. I live in the long form.
Unfortunately, the rest of the world doesn't want long form, so
there you go. You'd be surprised how many
people don't even want 60 seconds.
I mean it's. I know when I create a 22nd,
when I create a 22nd short for YouTube to advertise this
episode, yeah, the minimum view time is like 8 to 10 seconds.
And I'm like, wow, right. I don't know what I can say in
eight seconds, you know? I'm starting to spend even more
time like researching like, OK, you know what, what, what kind
of hook can I put in the beginning of the video?
You know what? You know, all these different
methods to try to like, hold that attention span because
people are used to, you know, swipe, swipe, swipe, swipe.
What makes somebody stop? What makes them stop swiping?
If we learned that, we'd be millionaires.
Right. I know we would.
We would. Everyone keeps telling me that
the thumbnail is really important.
And so for those devoted followers who are to my YouTube
channel, you see the thumbnails for each episode and it's going
to be a picture of me and my guest.
That's the problem though. Nobody people want to swipe on
this face. They're.
Gonna help you, buddy. I'm sorry, this ain't gonna help
you. Some relying on my Spotify
listeners who don't consume the video so.
Well, you got. AI know.
Doubly bad this week, no? So let's go back to when you
started making content. Your son's like tabletop
worldwide dad, and, you know, you got a logo.
Were there any content creators in your research that like
inspired you? Was there someone that you were
like, this is what I wanted. That is a great question.
Is it supremely like arrogant to say no?
Yes, OK. Honestly though, I just the
thing that inspired me, or I don't know if inspired is the
right word. The thing I guess that kept me
from feeling like A, this is a job, B, that I don't want to
just get discouraged is I decided early on I'm going to do
what I do and if they like it, great.
And if they don't, that's fine too.
I'm not going to try to imitate somebody else.
I'm not going to try to go, this person is doing this, let me do
that. I'm just going to do what I
enjoy doing and I'm going to put it out there.
And I mean, it's been a slow burn, right?
Like I'm not one of those people that went from, you know, zero
to 8006 months. You know, it like took me 6 plus
years and I started really towards the end of 2019, you
know, right before COVID, then COVID kind of like what really
got me started. But now we're in 2026.
So it's been 6 years. It's not, you know, it's a slow
burn. It's been a lot of hard work.
Now I've enjoyed it, but I, you know, early on it was just me
saying I'm going to do my thing. I hope people like it.
I don't necessarily think they're going to like it.
I'm not airy enough to go, hey, whatever I do is going to be
awesome. But at the same time I was like,
I'm not going to let myself get discouraged as I'm building.
I'm just going to do what I do. And then, you know, slowly I've
morphed into maybe more, I guess, mainstream contemporary
here, my reviews here my suggestions.
Here's my, you know, here's a funny real here's and you know,
but I'll say this, I really, really liked some of the people
that were like the bigger hosts of huge channels, like, like, I
mean, Rodney's amazing, but what, but what Rodney Smith does
is how to play videos. And I've never been a how to
play video guy. I really admired him though,
because of the almost like he could, you could reach out into
the TV or your phone or whatever and shake hands with him because
he's just, he's so personable and he's so, you know, making
you feel welcome and making you feel like, hey, this isn't me
being your teacher. This is your buddy sitting at
the table with you trying to teach you a game.
And so I did really look at at people like that to say, OK, how
can I make myself seem like I'm not showing you this, I'm
sharing this with you, right? Like make that connection right?
Because there's a huge difference between displaying a
game and saying, hey buddy, let me come over here and sit you
down at my table and, and and share this game with you and
show you why this is so cool. Absolutely a total difference.
Total. Difference, right, right.
So I did look at people like that.
And you know, I mentioned I'd I'd watched the the web series
from Wil Wheaton when he sat down with people.
And even though it was him, as, you know, like a somewhat of a
celebrity sitting with other, you know, well known people at a
table, it still felt like it was just a group of guys that you
knew from across town that you hung out with sometimes and you
could sit down and play a game together.
So I did look up to people like that who knew how to make that
connection because I think more than anything, building a
community of people that you're connected with and not just that
you're trying to sit at the top of some ivory tower and throwing
down bread to the matches or something like that.
But I think that's really important.
So I did, I did admire people that seem to be able to do that
with just like no effort. And I know it's a lot of effort
for them, but the way it comes across is that it's all like,
it's so natural. I will say, though, that the
view from the third floor window of that ivory tower is not bad.
So I can only imagine. I can imagine what it's like for
those guys at the top. That's right.
I am third floor, Steve. That's me.
My gosh. I didn't wanna make it sound
like I didn't think there's anybody out there that's
important. Right as I was coming up.
It was more of maybe maybe a coping or defense mechanism for
myself as like, well, OK, if I if I don't care what people
think, then I won't feel rejected.
You know, that kind of thing. Sure, there's a little bit of.
I know that is probably not healthy attitude at all, but at
the same time it does allow you to put out there what you want
to put out there, not what you think people want you to put out
there. Right, Absolutely.
You've definitely been true to yourself, consistent, committed.
These are the type of adjectives I've heard just people
describing you and your content throughout the years.
You know, you are very I can count on you.
I was trying to find a single adjective, but because it's not
accountable. But I can count on you and I can
count on your content if I want to know about a game.
You know, one of the things I struggle with is everyone,
especially with the cult of the new.
Right now, you see, like, a million photographs of the same
game. They don't really tell me
anything about the game. Yeah.
And so it's like, OK, did Jerry post a Did he post anything
about Galileo? Did he?
At least he's going to tell me what to expect from the game.
I can count on that. And then if Jerry said the game
is good and he describes the game now, I really want it, I'm
going to go to Rodney and he's going to teach it to me.
There you go. Great 1-2 punch, right?
Yeah, that's how it, that's how it works.
That's how it works. I will say I have been guilty of
of posting, you know, like mail day pics where I'm really
excited about a game that just showed up.
And so I'm like, here's this game and I don't really have a
lot of information about it yet. Yeah.
But I'm so excited about it that I just want to let people know.
It's not my way of like doing a teaser post, almost like here's
this awesome game, I'm going to be bringing you more about it.
I promise to watch out for it, but I'm excited about.
It and I have the luxury of, and I hope that people are listening
so that they know this about you as well.
I have the luxury of having a long time friendship with you so
that I know when you post those I can tell the difference in
your content. Jerry just got it and he's
excited. I'll wait a few weeks and he's
going to tell me why and then I will know, you know, because I
can rely on you to do that, to create the content, to not only
share and connect, but also to inform, you know, because
there's a lot of games out there and.
There are. I can't play them all so I need
to know which. Ones I wish I could remember.
I saw some crazy statistics one time and I golly, I really wish
I could remember exactly what they were, but it was like like,
you know, 1000 new games come out every year and if you play a
new game every single week, you've played 52 of 1000 and
every year there's another thousand and every year you
might only play 50 more. You know, and I know there's
people out there that play 304 hundred new games a year.
Great if you can do it. I can't.
I wish I could, but you know, and, and on top of that, if
you're playing a new game every week, you know, how many of your
games that you love are you not getting to replay right?
Absolutely. So I know you and and and your
wife try to play through your collection every year, right?
So, yeah. And I admire that so much about
you. My wife one time told me.
I asked her, you know, Hey, honey, I appreciate you playing
all these games with me. What's been your favorite game?
And she says anything we get to play twice.
So I. Understand that, I understand
that. I, I have felt that way in our
local game group years past. So yeah, yeah, I can, I can, I
can get that. I can get that, Yeah.
So I think, I think I know the answer, but you're, you have
become multifaceted. Do you have a favorite or a
preference platform you like to post the majority of your
content to? I mean, I'm, I'm Mr. Instagram.
I kind of have been from the start.
I'm on TikTok as well and love all the people that I interact
with over there as well. But I don't post as many videos
to be as consistent as I mean to be to be as successful on
TikTok. So my main platform is is
Instagram. I want to go on YouTube.
I really want to. So you want to.
I mean, I don't want to like rebeat the same horse, but it
is, you know, I can make I can do a review on Instagram post,
you know, 10 or 12 carousel pics, write a review and I can
be done with it in, you know, an hour, an hour and a half.
You shoot a YouTube video. I mean, before you even get to
editing you you were shooting forever content because you got
to you got to make sure you get what you need to get.
And that means, you know, usually multiple takes on things
and then you've got to edit all that stuff to it's a lot it it's
a lot. It is a lot of work.
It is definitely a lot of. Work.
I admire you. I admire you all and everyone
that does that that's that's amazing.
Look. So talking about platforms that
we want to join, you want to join you too?
I want to get on Twitch man, but live streaming terrifies me too.
Yeah. Because I'm with you on that.
I'm really not good at talking by myself, which is another
reason why I think I've had trouble, you know, trying to
enter the YouTube platform is because, you know, maybe if I
have a teleprompter and I'm reading off a review that I've
already written for Instagram and pretending like I'm saying
it to you, I don't know, maybe. But just talking, I, I so admire
the people that can do that. I mean, there's a lot of really
amazing people on YouTube that are brilliant at that.
And I know they spend a lot of time into, you know, scripting
things out. And, you know, I know it's not
all, you know, just free form off the top of their head, but
they do a lot of it and they're really good at it.
And I am so jealous of people that can do that.
That is amazing to me. I absolutely agree with you.
One thing that this series has taught me, connecting with so
many of my guests who are really active on Twitch.
I thought Twitch was for video gamers.
Nope, it's not. It's not.
Yeah. I mean, Bonds does so much,
right? She does video games.
She'll also do live streams of playing a board game.
So now you won't talk about editing.
Let's talk about a camera looking at me.
But then I've got a camera on top of my table doing that, and
then I'm going to need multiple ink.
Yay, yay. This it's you got to have your
live chat going. It's it's scary.
It is scary. Now I know that Bonds and
Amanda, Amanda Panda, who's also been on the show, she's going
to, they're both going to be like PJ, you can just do it,
right? I think that was their advice.
That was their advice. Just just do it.
Which brings me to my next question for you, and I've been
asking this of everybody, What advice do you have for someone
who's like, hey, you know what, Jerry?
I've been playing board games, let's say a local guy in your
game group. Hey, I want to start making
content too and getting some review copies and stuff.
What advice do you have to anyone who wants to get into
this? Don't do it.
No, I'm kidding. No, I would say the most
important thing, at least for me, and I think a lot of people
would would have this advice, is keep doing what you like doing.
Whatever content you put out there, make it stuff that you
enjoy. If you go into this trying to
please other people, you're going to make yourself
miserable. I mean, that is the number one
thing that I can say to you is, is make yourself happy.
And if you're happy, that joy will be contagious.
Wow, that was well said. Thank you, that was that's
really honestly the best piece of advice I can give.
I gotta tell you, I've heard some really great throughout
this series. The answer to that question just
kind of man, I tell you what, This is why I love this
community so much. Yeah, that was good.
Thank you. So Speaking of loving the
community, because as we're getting to the end, everyone's
used to these two questions, the first question is, So what is it
that to your mind, the community does really well that you're so
proud to be a part of it? I I think the community is
really, really good at being inclusive and that is so
important. I think this community, in
addition to being inclusive and making sure that people feel
like they're always welcome, I feel so little toxicity in the
board game community. Not, I'm not going to say it's
not there at all. Obviously there are specific
situations, but in general, the board game community and content
creators within the community, I mean, it's like we're all
A-Team. We're all supporting each other
rather than competing with each other, you know, and I love that
so much. And that is really kind of
probably what's kept me in the game as long as I have been
without, you know, having to take a break to go.
I just need to get away from this environment for a while.
I don't need to get away from an environment that's super
supportive. You know, I don't need to get
away from an environment that's super inclusive.
I love that, you know, people thrive in that and I that just
makes me love this community and be so proud to be a part of it.
Is is those two things. Yeah, yeah, I, I, I definitely
think that that's, that's the the common thread.
Everyone seems to say it's, it's, it's some version of that,
but I definitely like the way you put that.
That's really good. On the flip side, is there
something that you've seen that maybe the community needs to do
better at? Right, here's a moment for
fraternal correction. Wow, this, this, this is a tough
one. The things that I would normally
answer are are things that I feel like our community does
well. Like I, I feel like, man, I
really wish people were more accepted.
Man, I really wish people were more, you know, supportive.
Man, I really, but we are those things.
I I guess if anything, I would say don't judge people by what
they like. If they like playing Monopoly,
don't criticize. You can criticize Monopoly
without criticizing people that like Monopoly.
I don't love Monopoly, but if you like Monopoly, great be, you
know, fantastic. And I think that applies, you
know, maybe even more to people who are like, why do you like
that? It's Colton the new Oh, why
don't you like any new games? You know, on both sides of that,
you know, coin is people that are like, well, I'm just I'm not
going to like that game because it's, you know, it was made in
the last year, so it can't be any good.
Like my old game from 1975. This is a classic.
It'll always be the best. Well, yeah, it probably is
really good. That's probably why it's still
popular since 1975. But it doesn't mean anything new
can't be same time if you're only playing new games, if
you're only playing new releases, if you never allow
yourself to go back and enjoy Viticulture, which it's
Viticulture isn't exactly ancient, but I mean, it's been
around for a while. You don't really see a lot of
content about it now because it's not a new game.
I think maybe what our community could do more of is featuring
games that are classic games. Let people know that hey you,
there's a lot of new releases coming out and we're going to
talk about all these new releases.
But man, have you ever played Viticulture?
Because maybe you're brand new to the hobby.
You just come in, in the last year or two, realize how good
Viticulture is, you know, realize how good Wingspan is.
That's been around for three or four years now.
If you're brand new to the hobby, I think we could probably
do a better job of not just featuring brand new games all
the time and saying, hey, let let me show you what the
foundation that brought you to where we are today.
Yeah. If we focus a little more on
that, and and I'm not saying this as a person, that's like
the call to the new because I love new games.
Yes, you do El Leo Galileo, you know, so I'm not trying to I'm
trying. I'm trying to straddle the fence
of that, I guess of saying, look, both sides are are right,
because both sides have great games.
Don't alienate the other side. Yeah.
And I think what's interesting is that you're a person who you
get a lot of review copies of new games and, and coming along
with that is there's an expectation and a requirement
that you create content for that new game.
So but you also recognize, you know, there's a reason why I
love Viticulture and revisiting that love is just as valid.
Yeah. Yeah, sometimes I, you know, I
talked about how I like to go to, to conventions and meet with
publishers face to face and, and I'm always, you know, in the
grind. And one of my, what I could do
better personally, not the community necessarily, but me
personally, is I need to learn. And, and we've talked about this
off air a little bit. I need to learn even better how
to say no sometimes, which seems like such a foreign concept for
someone who worked so hard just to get yeses for me to turn
around and now have to say no to some people.
It is so difficult to do that. It is so difficult to do that.
I just, I remember being out of my mind ecstatic when the first
few review copies rolled in and I was actually getting, you
know, wow, a company thinks that I'm worth sending a new game to,
to now having to turn around and go, I'm really sorry, but I have
got a backlog of games to review.
And again, I know first world problems.
Wayne, you have too many fun games to play.
But at its base, it is still an issue if you have to learn how
to to, to say no in a way that doesn't make the publisher think
that you're like, well, I'm so big now, I don't have time for
your silly little game. Like, that's not it at all,
right? I would never think that of
myself. I've told you this before.
Like, I don't even like the term influencer because I think it
sounds arrogant. All of my friends have to call
me content creator. They can't call me influencer.
It's just, it just sounds so arrogant to me.
I don't know what it is. I know I can, silly.
That's so silly. I.
Can confirm to everyone listening that every time that I
see Jerry and we usually see each other between 3 and 4 * a
year, you always say that. Yeah.
So yeah, he's he's again, you can count on Jerry.
He's genuine and honest. He really doesn't like to be
consult called an influencer. I respect that.
I respect that The reality might be different.
You know, my my family even tells me that my wife is all of
the time saying, see, you're an influencer, see, you're an
influencer. And I don't know what it is
about the term. Like there's nothing wrong with
the term. You know, inherently there's
nothing wrong with the term. If you have the ability to put
out content that makes people think, maybe I want to go try
that game, then by purest definition, sure, right.
But for, I don't know what it is, but for me, the last thing,
one of the most important things for me as just a human being is
for people not to think that I am somehow arrogant or somehow
think that I'm full of myself or think that I'm not approachable
or any of those things. Like just on a fundamental human
level, for me, it's important for people not to think those
things about me. And I try not.
Some people call it like false humility.
If you're an influencer, you should just say you're an
influencer. I struggle with that.
It's a. Struggle.
I get that. I do understand that.
And note, note that this is the content creator community
series, right? I, I don't know, I don't think I
do. I think of I think of everyone
as content creators. Like when I think about you,
when I think about everyone we've mentioned on the show, I
don't think of them as influencers.
You may be, you might be an influencer in so far as you've
influenced me to buy a game or try a game or that or that too.
But I think you're a content creator because you create
content. And I think it's the
intentionality that separates you from just a casual gamer,
right? You're a gamer who takes a
picture of a game and say, look what I played today.
And, and yes, that's making content and therefore you're a
content creator. But I, I really think it's the
intentionality of the content that you create, whether it's
short form or long form. I and you know, we've had this
coverage. I've said it a lot on the show.
I don't think I'm a content creator.
I think of myself as a podcaster because the the forms are
different, the workload is different, but it's still
content. I'm still a content creator.
It is. It definitely is.
And if I'm an influential? When I'm driving to Gincon or
driving to Origins and I've got to spend 7 or 8 hours in my car,
I need some board game content and it's coming from BJ.
And, and I will be perfectly honest, the few weeks leading up
to Origins are Gen. Con.
When I'm recording an episode. I actually picture you in my
mind's eye when I'm recording because I know.
Sitting in the car listening. I know Jerry's going to be
driving to Columbus, driving to Indianapolis, He's going to be
listening. And so I'm like, I'm thinking
about you driving in the car, listening, right?
I think that's why I really enjoyed when Cassidy came on
just before Gen. Con.
I'm sorry, I don't know which episode that was, but you can
definitely find it. We talked about a Tourette's
syndrome and all the triggers and going to a big convention.
That was a great episode. She's such a fantastic.
Person so good, you're a lucky man.
Would behoove me to speak highly of her because she was so kind
in the way that she spoke about me.
She is a wonderful person, that she is.
I mean. You are so lucky to have her
living nearby. Yeah, I agree.
I agree. Yeah.
So so Cassidy, shout out to you. We love you dearly.
Keep listening and keep playing games.
So yeah. So why don't you I know you
don't need to because we've talked about it, but why don't
you tell everybody where they can find you on what?
That's the Instagram and TikTok is where you are.
That's where they can find you. I.
Actually do have a YouTube channel.
I posted some shorts there. OK.
If I ever get more involved it'll probably, at least to
begin with, be more more and more shorts.
I'm thankful to YouTube for creating, creating that platform
for people like me that don't really do a lot of long, you
know, long form video. But yes, I'm on Instagram my my
handle. Do you call it handles?
Now handle user name whatever. User name sure.
At tabletop under score worldwide there is a little
under score between the two words via.
At under score tabletop worldwide, it is that exact same
handle username on TikTok. It is the exact same one on
YouTube. You can find me in any of those
locations. You're probably gonna get my
best and brightest from Instagram, but we are trying to
broaden our horizon so. Broaden them.
Broaden them, Jerry. Absolutely.
Well, Jerry, thank you so much. It's great to talk to you again.
It's been so many months. It's good to see you again.
As always, guys, please hit the like and subscribe button and
comment. I'm there.
And as always, be kind to each other and let's play more game.