Welcome to Maple to Maple, uniting players around the
world, a 30 minute exploration of TJ and Gareth's four-game
experiences from across both sides of the Atlantic.
Each episode they share their thoughts and opinions on the
world of four games, including their favorite themes, games,
hot topics, and much, much more. Hey guys, and welcome to episode
95 of Maple to Maple. We are slowly, slowly but surely
inching our way towards episode 100.
You guys have been hearing me say this for probably 10
episodes now, but here we are. So it's episode 95.
Try win games. Can't go, can't go, can you go?
I don't know. Today Gareth is unfortunately
not able to be with me, so it's just me, but I have invited our
wonderful friend, repeat guest on the show, John from Tri Win
Games, and he is going to talk to us about his new game that's
going to be launching on Kickstarter shortly.
Can't go, John. Welcome back.
Hello PJ, an absolute pleasure to be back.
Obviously not wishing for Gareth not to be here, but if it means
I get an opportunity to slide back into this delightful
podcast then I will take that and run with it as far as I can.
As long as you don't try to kill me like just before the
recording, you know, John is making fun of me and I am like
choking on my water. So I apologize if I sound a
little if I sound a little clear my throat there.
If if I'm alive, John, you can be on my podcast have a all
right. So don't kill the host.
I'm making out of that. Yes, so man, I, I don't even
know where to begin. So we're just going to begin in
the middle. How about that?
Let's just begin in the middle, right?
Let's pick the corn. Let's let's pick the corn bits
out of the poo. OK.
All right. Delving right in, right?
So tell people who don't know about your game what it's about.
OK so can't go the game of poop point and pandemonium.
It's as it's heart. It's a card game, so small, sort
of portable box size, couple of interesting decks of cards in
there which give the game its main name.
So you've got a poop and points deck in there and a pandemonium
deck. The the players would see three
deck cards in front of them, two for the decks I've mentioned,
and then a sewer deck which would be a discard card or a
discard area for the game. There's also four toilet cubicle
areas in the game, and there's also a little card with a little
toilet with a little water flow on it, so it shows the play
direction for the game. That's double sided as well.
So if you're in the northern hemisphere, you can play the one
way, and if you go southern hemisphere, you flip it over and
then you play the other way around.
The nuts and bolts of the game is the sort of two aspects of
the game. You've got pooping turns and
finishing turns. In pooping turns, players are
collaboratively playing cards out against the cubicles to get
poop points out into the play area.
As soon as somebody finishes one of those poops, it switches into
finishing terms and everyone is competing for that one that's in
play. It might be the smallest poop
that's out there, it might be the largest, it might be in
between. But everybody has to resolve
that one and deal with that before sort of moving on.
And the game sort of swings to and fro between people sort of
being in different mindsets where people are getting sort of
points out there versus being really competitive.
And as soon as that first poop is claimed, then you start
seeing the strategies emerging of whether people are just going
to go for sneaky small ones and be like, nobody's going to
challenge me for this. I'm going to just try and steal
this while nobody's considering it important.
And some might say, you know what?
I'm going to just keep building this enormous one in the middle
of the table, like right to the edge.
And, and sometimes that strategy really works and and sometimes
it doesn't. But yeah, so then you've got
between two and six players competing to be the first to 400
poop points or the the high score once one of the decks runs
out. So it's The thing is, I've, I've
described it so often now that I'll do it in a really like
formal way. And people are like, you know,
you're just talking about poop in the game, right?
I'm like, yeah. But it's, you know, it's, it's a
serious game. You know, people want to win
this. So that's that's a.
Very further game. It's funny that you brought that
up because listening to you talk, I, I wrote this down,
there was a, there was a phrase you use that I find so
entertaining because you're right, you're just talking about
poo. And very seriously, I for one
don't consider anyone else's poo important, OK?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Game game terms.
This is what I love about this industry and our hobby is
something like poo. Yeah, I consider your poo very
important, but. Having play tested this a lot of
Times Now, it's amazing how attached people will get to 1,
especially if they, if they've finished it, they feel that it's
theirs. And if somebody else steals it
from them and they get to to wipe or steal it in some way and
they get the points. There's this this real sense of
loss of somebody else stealing the poop from them.
And it's I, I'll, I'll live for those sort of bizarre sort of
out, out of game context. It makes no sense and it sounds
ridiculous, but in the game just just joyous.
It's brilliant. That's that's amazing.
So how does that work? How do how do I cause so when I
was in England I only got to hold the game and look at a few
cards I did not get to play. I'm a little disappointed but
that's OK. How do I steal your poo?
Like mechanically, how would that happen?
So there's a a couple of ways. The main 1 is.
So once the the poop's been finished off, then mainly the
cards that will be played are the are the ones that will
determine what happens with those points.
Once a player plays a card on their turn, the terms would
normally stop. However, there are wipe cards in
the deck and a wipe card. There are two styles.
There's standard and luxury. The luxury works just like a
normal one, but it adds extra points so it's got a points
value to it. If you use that, the actual poop
becomes more valuable. So for instance, if we were
playing A2 player and I'd finish the poop, then potentially that
could be my point. But because I had finished it,
the next player would get a go and then you would have a turn.
And if you wiped for it, you would then supersede me and then
you would be in the running to claim those points.
Wiping is the only one where if you play it on your turn, the
next player will always get a go.
So strategically, sometimes you'll want to wipe for one to
try and steal one and sometimes you'll let 1 slide because when
you're doing the finishing turns, you're not drawing
backup, you're not drawing cards back up pooping turns.
You'll always have 5 cards in your hand of whatever
combination of the two decks. As soon as you're finishing,
you've just got the cards in your hand.
So it means that tactically you you might want to sort of run
somebody a bit dry maybe so that then you could steal the next
one. And the, the two types of cards
have got different colours on the back so you can see whether
they're likely to challenge. So if they've got yellow cards,
for instance, which are the poop cards, they can't win with a
yellow card. They've got to have a blue
pandemonium card to try and challenge.
So if they've got a hand of yellow, you know, they can't
challenge you. So you can use that sort of
information to to gauge what you're doing.
So yeah, so there's but the, the way the blue cards work, the
pandemonium ones, is to design the spread of cards and quantity
of cards to allow players to always have an option to do
something rather than just being backed into a corner all the
time. We'd be like, OK, there's
nothing I can do. The game's there to have a play
area where paying attention is really valuable because you can
see how people are playing and where and because of the types
of cards, you can always try and challenge or try and do
something that benefits you or benefits others or just tries to
hinder somebody else. So it's when we began with it,
people had said it was sort of a like a take that sort of style
to the game. But there is some of that, but
there's also some I don't I don't know what the opposite
would be to take that. It's more of a oh, here you go
kind of thing because there's one card that gives if you're
challenging for one poop, a splash card, for instance,
shares the points amongst everybody.
So there's always an opportunity where you could pull the rug or
you could go, that's fine. We'll we'll all get, you know,
do good out of this. You can tell how how people feel
that they're going because when they start discarding those
cards, then you're like, OK, you've gone from your nice
moment and you're just into the I'm just in this for victory
now. So it's quite interesting to see
how the the play changes as the sort of points get scored as
well. So I want to ask about the poop
deck first. When you're playing the cards,
the the design of the card, the the poop, do the cards, when you
play them on the table, do they overlap or do they go side by
side in one long poop? Or I'm thinking about for our
listeners who might be familiar with the canopy where you're
building a tree and you actually lay the cards a little bit over
each other to form a trunk of a tree.
Is that how it works or are they side by side?
How's that? So yeah, it's a good question.
So the two sort of main poop, the two types of poop cards are
the tip cards, so the ones that represent the ends and then the
medals and the tip 1 can be played either way up.
You would play it the appropriate way to build cards
next to it. So you play the tip like
vertically if you like, to begin with, and then you'd play middle
cards next to it. So the poop would grow in the
cubicle. So you would see it moving
across the table. And then when you wanted to
finish it, you would take that same tip card or spin it round
180. So then it'd be sort of upside
down if you like, and then it'd finish it off the other end.
So then you get this big or small oblong shape that's been
built on the table. So yeah, so rather than them
being sort of stacked onto top of each other, they are sort of
spread next to each other. Yeah, it's a horizontal sequence
if you like. OK, so there's a little there's
some table presence to the game. We did, yeah.
Yeah. So let's sort of demoed it at
the UK Games Expo twice now. And I always thought that the,
with a three or foot diameter tables would always be big
enough. And they're never quite big
enough for people who get really competitive about how big a poop
they can make. And many a time I've had the,
the, the jaws style quota of we're going to need a bigger
table because it just keeps getting bigger.
So, and you can tell somebody usually in the groups like, I'm
either going to take that or I'm going to flush it so that nobody
gets it. And, and more often than not,
somebody will flush that, that entire group will just be
discarded. And there's, there's just this,
this real resigned sigh of the group.
They're like, we were building something so good and saying
you've just taken your promise. And yeah, yeah.
Yeah, OK, I love it. I love it.
So how about the Pandem Pandemonium deck, right?
That's what it's called. So tell, tell me about the
Pandemonium deck. What can people expect them when
they play those cards? What do they look like?
What do they do? So in there you've got a mixture
of action cards, a mixture of icons on them as well.
So you've got sort of pretty, I don't want to deglamor it, but
there's sort of standard game sort of things in there like a
mix of turn, which is a little poop with a little with with
sweat marks on because you're you can't play your turn.
So you're sort of straining a bit if you like.
And then you've got the flush action in there, a little mean
toilet on, and then as I say, that will clear all the cards
out from 1 cubicle. The other interesting one that
developed early in the game was one where you can stack cards in
the cubicle where you play that one.
And whatever's happening with the poop that's been competed
for in the finishing turn, all of those cards will all get
stacked up on top of each other, and then the stack card will be
played on top. So now you've got the cubicle
card, and next to it a stack of however many points underneath,
which if somebody places Cuba cards after that one and wins
those, they'll also win the stacked ones as well.
So potentially you can get loads and loads of points building up
in one cubicle. But then that does also build
the risk of if somebody's got a flush card and they feel pretty
pointed about it, then they'll flush the whole lot as well.
So yeah, sometimes stack, because stack will just pause
those points and it'll just hold them in the game.
And sometimes I'll sit there for the rest of the game because
nobody's got the nerve to try and claim them because they're
they're too big. So that's quite interesting.
You've got a sort of a helper card, if you like, where you can
draw 2 cards. So if you're stuck and you can't
normally play, then you would play this card and then you can
draw 2 cards from whichever deck that you like and then you would
play from your hand or from those two that you've got and
then just discard another. So you're back to your original
hand number. So give.
So it's a bit of, I don't want to say get out of jail free
card, but it just gives you an extra if if you're down to
nothing you like, at least I can try this and just have a roll of
the dice if you like, which is quite nice.
The the ones I mentioned were the two splash cards.
So the one allows everybody to win the value of the poop that's
in play. There's another one which is
points for two. So just you and the previous
player would get those points. Obviously in a a bigger player
game, it means that some people are going to lose out in that
and too festive that the alliances built and lost in the
in the choice of splash cards of who you decide to sort of put up
with. Yeah.
And then like I say, you've got the wipes as well, which are for
challenging as you you sort of deem appropriate.
And a lot of people, they just go full on for the wipe and
they're like, you know what, I'm just going to doggedly wipe for
this and I'm going to go all out and win it.
And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
And it depends who you're playing with.
And yeah, the, it's been really fun seeing how the dynamics vary
on player count and the, the, the sort of can understand the
types of players involved, the way they come into the game,
whether they're just, yeah, this is just good fun.
And then it turns into actually it looks cute, but there's a lot
at stake in this and everyone sort of sharpens up a bit.
So yeah. So the pandemonium is it sort of
plays into the sort of the to and fro of the game where the
pooping is obviously more of the pooping punch deck.
And then the finishing is more around the pandemonium bit of,
you know, when when the chips are down.
Am I going to try and compete for this or am I going to try
and look after myself or others or, you know what, what, what am
I going to try and do? There's there's also in the
pandemonium deck, there are four event cards which add a bit of
upsetting to the game as well. So for instance, one of them is
the the mushy wipe. So it turns out that all the
toilet paper has been damaged, right?
So it's all wet. So anybody who's been hoarding
wipe cards, you have to discard them.
So that usually brings a bit of a tie as well.
So because people know it's in there, because people used to
hang on to the wipes for for a long time in the game, it's like
that's, that's not, that's not where the game needs to be.
It needs to be a bit more. What's the word to, to bring
people into the game? Just having that one event to
just change the mindset of going, OK, I I could try and
hold on to these, but there is the risk of, you know, trying
to, to be a toilet paper hoarder.
And, you know, historically we know that's not a very good
thing to do. So, yeah.
So it just adds a bit more, a bit more chaos I guess into the
into the mix. Poop and pandemonium.
Wow. So you know, I, so I got to know
you a bit when I was in England, we've had, we had quite a few
late night conversations and you're a very serious guy.
You know, you're a you're you're, you're a very serious
guy. You're a very meaningful,
thoughtful individual. You're a very serious job.
You've got a, a lovely partner. Your life is fantastic.
You're just delightful. And you came up with a game
about pooping and wiping. Mm hmm.
So take me through the beginnings, because you've been
working on this game for a while, haven't you?
Yeah. Take me through the beginnings
of that. Like, how do you get?
Where'd this come from? OK, so I guess without sort of
going too far back into memory lane.
So I've always enjoyed playing board games from my childhoods
of usually there's sort of compendium based games and, and
the game that shall not be named and, and things like that.
And I've always enjoyed sort of doing my own slant on things as
well and making my own sort of play versions of stuff.
And then it wasn't until much later, so say 201516 where I
realised that there was many, many board games and board game
cafes and things like that and, and, and, and an official hobby.
And then from that, I, I was just really engrossed in the
fact that it played to a lot of things just in my head in terms
of the sort of, yeah, the serious sort of analytical thing
of going, how does, how does this thing work?
And why does that one not work? And, and, and why, why do I
enjoy this and getting too reflective on it?
But going up, OK, this, this feels good.
I'd like to do something like this.
And I remember not quite binging, but almost the Wil
Wheaton tabletop for YouTube. Channel Series.
Where it was it was the essence of hobby gaming, if you like to
me where it was friends coming round, having a great time
playing a game and understanding what the game was about and I
watched all of those going there.
There is so much more to this in terms of just the box on the
shelf. It's, it's the, the, the thing,
the experienced, the moments that that little box of stuff
can create with people. And it's different every single
time, right? Even if you play the same game
with the same people, it's never the same.
And that just intrigued me and delighted me.
And then I just started looking at, at options in my head of
going, OK, well, what, what sort of thing I ought to do.
I started looking around at all the games of themes and, and
mechanics and learning lots more of the terminology.
And then that sort of fast forwarded into the summer of
2017 and I wanted a game that that never looked the same after
you'd taken your turn. So the sort of play area was
always developing. And yeah, there was an original
sort of premise about maybe mining for gems or something.
I was like, yeah, it could work, but it just there's no.
There's no like joy in it, right?
It just felt too mechanical. And I was like, OK, this is
fine. But it sort of kept the idea on
my mind and just going on a camping trip in that summer and
maybe it was coincidental, maybe it was thematic, but had done
the bathroom things. And I was like, this could work
if it was a toilet and a poop in it.
Because it's the same premise of you're building stuff out.
You're trying to claim instead of gems, you'd have sweet corn.
And it was, it was just kind of populating itself in my head and
I was like, this is it's coming together too nicely and I'm
enjoying this too much in my head for something.
Right, right. And I started talking to people
about it and they were like you, you need to get this into a form
that we can play because this would be amazing.
And it just started from that really with with that initial
sort of, it wasn't the elevator pitch, but that sort of 32nd to
a minute intro to people going, I've had this idea for a game
and I'm like, Oh yeah, what's it about?
And they'll be like, yeah, I want to play that.
I'm like, OK, cool. I'll.
And I think it was maybe they should have given me a different
reaction. It was that initial kind of,
this could be brilliant and hilarious and ridiculous and
great all in the same breath. And.
And I like that. And I guess the sort of circular
thing of coming back to the, the serious personality.
But the the humour bit is I grew up watching a lot of the sort of
classic British comedy stuff like the the sitcom writer and
all the sort of really well heralded writers.
And I often found there was a real like, especially with
Ronnie Barker as an instance, really serious guy, and he took
his craft very seriously, but the stuff he produced was very,
very clever and very funny. And it was that balance, and I'm
not saying I'm on that level at all, but just that balance,
right, where you don't have to be a clown all the time to make
people laugh. You can have that balance
between your personality characteristics if you like.
So as soon as the game started, Mikey, as soon as I introduced
the game to people and they were like, oh, this is cool.
And then they started laughing with it and playing the game.
I was like, this is that's the reaction I want.
I want people to enjoy it and be playing the game.
So there's that duality of sort of competition and entertainment
at the same in the same experience.
And I was like that, that's it. That's that's what I want to
bottle up, really. So have you ever given a pitch
for your game while in a bathroom?
I picture you sitting on the toilet next to some game
designer be like, so I've got this idea for this game.
Really. So I I haven't, I haven't.
I suppose for for comedy purposes I should I should say
it's the only way I pitch the game, but but I haven't that.
Would have been great. Because I think if you're in the
toilet cubicle and you said I've got this idea for a game, that
lead sentence could land you in a.
Weird. A lot of trouble.
I mean, that could, yeah, yeah, that could go wrong really
quickly and just running away going.
I just want to tell you about my Kickstarter.
So the OK, so Kickstarter here. So let's start here.
When's the launch? What's the launch date for this
game? So the launch dates on the 6th
of so Friday the 6th of September 2024 and it's actually
taking place or put well travel Godzilla in or put tabletop
Scotland, which is on that that weekend.
Excellent. So guys be looking for that on
September 6th. So why did you decide of why did
you decide to launch on Kickstarter as opposed to other
crowd funding sites that are available?
It's a good question. There were a lot of influencing
factors in that. And this is where it gets super
analytical because there's an enormous amount of effort that
goes into any, any sort of pre launch campaign, whatever sort
of platform you're using, right. And there are, yeah, pros and
cons with every sort of approach.
The for me, there were, there were a few key influencing
factors without sort of running into sort of a whole analysis of
everything. But, and I make no secret about
having previous Kickstarters for this game, but because I'd
engaged with Kickstarter before, it was a platform where the fan
base of the game was growing through Kickstarter.
So people were prepared to say, look, we want this game, we will
back it. Obviously, we just need enough
other people to do it at the same time as well.
And you're like, OK. The the peculiarity with
Kickstarter though, is that you, you get to see your your pre
follower list if you like, but it's only numerical.
You don't get to see who the people are.
You don't get to see where they are and you don't really get to
see when they started supporting.
So you just got this mysterious number of saying, oh, there are
number of people interested in this game.
Cool. And then you go, well, what,
what can I do with that? For instance, if, if I knew or
if somebody knew about a campaign that all of your
followers were in a particular country, that he's not your
country, you go, you know what, I'll, I'll set up all the
fulfilment stuff and all the delivery to ship it direct to
that country because it just makes logistical sense.
But you don't have that information available to you.
But what you do have available is a sort of a momentum, if you
like, or a community of people who, this mysterious community
who are there and they do exist and you go, well, if I choose a
different platform, I'm very likely to lose them because
being able to recover everybody who's followed it is, is very,
very difficult if possible at all.
So that was one of the key influencing things is because
I've been growing this community, if you like, aside
from Kickstarter, but definitely through the Kickstarter platform
as well. It made sense to continue with
that for this game because there were people ready and waiting
for it. So then when other people were
saying, OK, how do we get this game?
OK, go and follow the Kickstarter, go and sign up to
the pre launch and then you're in that amorphous BLOB of hidden
people. Yeah.
What that OK, that's that's a pretty good answer.
One one of the more in depth answers I've gotten in a while.
So thank you for that. So that's pretty cool.
So you've got what 200 and 214 backers right now pre launch?
Is that what is that what I mean?
So So what are you looking for? You're in you're in the pre
launch stage. You're getting ready to launch
on the 6th. What are you looking for in the
campaign right now, just before the launch?
Like at what point? Where's the threshold where
you're like, I'm confident we're going to find we're ready to go
and pull the trigger? So it's the just the, what would
you call it, sort of the, the, the noise, if you like, of, of
the anticipation from others of people saying whether they
through a lot of people who've been messaging me for well, like
since the summertime when they knew another campaign was sort
of in the offing and they'd be messaging going, is there a date
yet? We like whatever the, the latest
sort of event videos have been or photos and whatnot.
And we want to see what the latest thing is.
So just having that sense that people do care and it's still on
their radar. Obviously the, the enormous
proof is, is on that first really 24, at most 48 hours of
going OK, you push the button and you know, when the was it
when the, the flag drops, the the BS stops and you're like,
OK, that's it. And you'll, you'll then see
whether people are as keen as they say they are.
It's really, it's really easy for people to be really
supportive. And I'm not knocking these, but
they go, yeah, yeah, we'll definitely back you da da, da,
da da. And sometimes things happen
where they're not in a position to and that, you know, that's,
that's cool, but it just depends on how much you're banking on
convert. If you like marketing speak,
converting a number of your backers into or pre backers into
or proper backers. So, so there's, it's ultimately
a game of risk really. And the Kickstarter or any
credit funding campaign is a game in itself where you go,
there's an investment of time and money that everybody's put
into a campaign. And there comes a time where you
go, actually, no, it's just not worth doing at all, ever.
Or you go, it is worth doing, just not now.
Or you go, no, this is it. And you just push the button And
then as soon as you're in, you're, you're, you're strapped
in and nobody else is, but you're, you're on that ship and
you're firing away. And you just hope that the
people have aligned with you at the same time.
So do you have do you currently have any demographic information
on your followers pre launch? So not through Kickstarter, but
sort of informally. So I've done a lot of personal
messaging, especially through the spring and summer of this
year, early summer. So for instance, every single
Instagram follower has had a personal message from me.
A lot of people didn't realise it was personal message because
some would come back going, oh, thanks for the automated
message. I'm like, and I'd reply more or
less immediately going, this isn't automated.
I wish there was a way of doing it automated, but I care too
much to just send a blanket thing out because if it's
blanket, a lot of people go, I don't care about that, right.
So I was just messaging people going, the campaign's come in,
give it a follow up if it's on your radar or if you want it to
be on your radar. And then people would come back.
So I'd have, I'd be able to build my own sort of list up of
saying, yeah, where are people and what sort of things are they
interested in? What things do they know about
the game? What are they still curious
about? So then you can build a page
around that so that you you convey it in a way that is the
sort of pushes all the right buttons, I guess for people so
that when they look, they can go, Oh, yeah, I'll get this now
rather than trawling through it and going, OK, I don't, I still
don't really get it. And some people are back again
just because of the way it looks or just a referral from a friend
or whatever. But it needs to be, yeah,
credible enough so that people can just if they just happen
upon it, they can go, OK, I'll get this quickly enough.
And it either feels right. I'll delve a bit more before
they go, no, that's cool. And, and I think that's, that's
something that's quite important that I think a lot of indie
designers have a harder time with where people don't like
their game and they go, well, that's fine.
It it's better for you to find out faster that somebody doesn't
like it, right? Then you can quickly find
somebody who does because it's, you know, not every game has a
has a fan, You know, everyone likes different things.
True. So we've got what a week We've
got what? So today is the 1st of
September, it'll be the 3rd when you're listening to this because
it drops on Tuesday this episode and that'll be so they give you
3 days before launch. So here's something interesting
and why I asked you the question.
Now, granted, this is all these are all statistics through
Instagram only I don't have the Spotify statistics, but so
recently on the, the our podcast reach, so we're 37% in the US
and 17% in England. So I'm, I'm kind of, I'm kind of
pleased by that because early on, early on it was the other
way around. But what's interesting is this
week in particular, our greatest reach is in the city of Madrid.
I don't, I don't, I don't know. So it's like a, granted, we're
talking about a 1.8% increase in Madrid, in London, and then
obviously Springfield because you know, this is where I live,
and then Mexico City. So let's hope, let's hope
sincerely, you'll pick up a few listeners on Tuesday listening
to this podcast and they're hearing about your game for the
first time and they'll check it out on the 6th coming the
Kickstarter. Can't go because who doesn't
like to play serious strategic games and thinking about poo at
the same time? I mean, come on, right?
Exactly. Exactly.
That's awesome. So after this is there, is there
another project you're working on right now that'll be coming
out after Can't Go is complete or?
There are so do have. Yeah, it's actually just down
here. Next to me, there's a, a folder
of other ideas that are in various stages of, of
completion, very different themes, very different styles of
play. But the thing I wanted to get
through really was, was just to, to, to get through this first,
this first game really you can get it through to the, the
production bit. Because again, once you're,
there's a lot of discussions that you have with people and
until you're actually there with the money asking for lead times
and proper delivery dates, you, you never really know how people
are really going to perform. I mean, luckily the board game
industry is full of really helpful people, really reliable
employers and such. So I'm just really just super
keen to get through it. The other thing as well is it's
just that level of credibility as well, because it's all well
and good kind of preaching about Kickstarter advice and
perspectives and stuff, but until you've actually kind of
gone through and had a really successful one, all the
perspectives are like, OK, well, yeah, we hear what you're
saying, but you've never had a winning one.
So I'm, yeah, just getting getting out of that line and
just making it work. I'm just, yeah, super stoked for
that to happen. Well, here's to your first win
that way. Yeah.
So that would be exciting. So we've come to the end of the
show. So let's see we're I do my
little voice over from reading of a rule book.
And so here I've just picked one at random.
It's not even connected or related.
I don't have a copy of Can't go. So normally what I've done in
previous episodes is I would just read from your rule book.
You know, I know of your game, but I don't have that.
So I should have asked in advance.
So shame on me. This is what happens when Gareth
leaves me. He was back.
I thought everything was great and then I just dropped the
ball. So so here we go with the next
and I'll. I'll let you guess, but I won't
tell you and will reveal it next week.
Observe the growth of nature's most beautiful and exotic
natural structure, the coral reefs found primarily in the
Indo Pacific region. It has taken reefs thousands of
years to grow. Over that time they have
mesmerized marine life and created amazing aquatic
ecosystems. Prepare yourselves to do the
same and open your eyes to the beauty of the oceans.
So that's the game. What do you what game do you
think I just read from? Well, I I just want to hear you
read more of that rule book. That is that's that's a there
should be a rule book with PJ podcast of itself.
Maybe that that's amazing. So I mean, you've gone into to
coral reefs there's. There is a.
A game called, you know, a game called Reef, which has got like
the clunky bits of coral reef and you sort of stack in.
There is and there is, and I think there's a game that just
came out that's called corals or coral reef or something like
that. So it's a trick, right?
Like, what is it? Well, stay tuned next week and
you'll find out. And I just realized that I have
completely forgotten which rule what game I read from last week.
I'm I'm sitting here again. This is see what happens when
Gareth leaves me. In the edit, it's fine.
Nobody will know, it's fine. Right.
I'm sitting here while I'm talking to him, looking at my
shelf, going, what did I read from last week?
Because I need to tell my listeners.
Yeah, shoot, I've completely forgotten.
So I guess you're just going to have to stay tuned the week
after. And, you know, to be honest with
you, not only is it Garrett's absence, I think it's the fact
that I'm. So my head is fixated on episode
100. And it's like, PJ, you, you got
five more episodes to go, son, you better calm down.
Yeah. So before we go, do you have
anything else you want to talk about?
Anything we missed on Can't Go Kickstarter.
What's going on? How's the weather in England?
It's, it's well, apparently thunderstorms forecast, but they
never turn up and it's not turned up yet.
I do love a good thunderstorm. Yeah.
I mean, the UK thunderstorms are tolerable.
I think thunderstorms more or less everywhere else in the
world are just like events destroying kind of activities
where it's just some. It's, it's, it's really, it's
really interesting because in the US we have special names
devoted to different types of thunderstorms.
And I, I don't, I don't mean like the Hurricanes, which have
their own names. I mean like, so there's last
summer, there was a storm that came through for about an hour
or two here. And it was like the, the, the
wind was blowing so much that the rain was going sideways.
I think, I think, I think they call it frontline winds or
something. So it's not wind gusts, right?
There's not a there's not a circulation in the air.
And they call it derecho. And I'm like, I've never heard
of that, but holy cow, that was terrifying.
So yeah. Well, good, good.
Yeah. We had thunderstorms here just a
few days ago. It was not fun.
So, yeah. But we are a much larger
country, so we get a lot more meteorological phenomena than
you do in England, so. Yeah, as as a really nerdy thing
and not to draw this out too long, but there is a website
where you, where it does a lightning map and you can so
just a map of the world and you can see wherever the weather
stations pick up all the Thunder and lightning.
And that's fascinating. Oh, it depends how you define
fascinating. Right, right, right.
Really interesting. So like the last couple of days
I've been looking and over in France there's been quite a lot
of Thunder activity and I'm thinking, oh, is that going to
come up in into the UK? But it hasn't yet.
So I was quite disappointed but. What would be interesting is if
we had sensors in our toilets and you could track every toilet
flush around the world. Which, right.
I mean, just to tie this back to the theme of your game, but this
has like climate, this is climatological and
environmental, like repercussions, right?
You could track the flow of wastewater, you know, and human
activity potentially. It's kind of cool if you think
that kind of thing is. Just sort of breach the point or
brought the point of there's a good portion of the the world
that doesn't have flushing toilets.
I don't have access to good connotation.
So it's quite a a luxury if you like, of being able to have a
room with a toilet in, with clean water and you can just go
in and it's safe. You're not going to get
attacked. Everything's clean.
You're not going to get any bacteria.
There you go, there you go, there you are.
Well, thank you so much John. It was it's always a pleasure
talking to you. Thanks for coming back on and
putting up with me without Gareth once again.
So. It's absolute pleasure, PJ.
Thank you, Kyle. Thanks everyone for listening,
please subscribe and as always, we'd love to hear your thoughts
and ideas, so make sure to leave those in the comments and don't
forget you can also chat with us both on Instagram at Meeple the
Meeple.