1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,760 Welcome to Episode 133, where imagination is central to 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:07,880 sparking connection through storytelling. 3 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:12,080 Today, we're diving into a heartwarming tale of local game 4 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:17,280 store that hosted A widely successful Dungeons and Dragons 5 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:20,520 summer camp for kids. From its controversial 6 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:25,200 beginnings in the 1970s to becoming a cornerstone of modern 7 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:29,960 geek culture, indie has since become a cultural touchstone, 8 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:34,880 fostering creativity, storytelling, and deep social 9 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,040 bonds. One story, 1 monster, and one 10 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:42,160 role at a time, these kids built confidence, collaboration, and 11 00:00:42,160 --> 00:00:45,200 friendship to their shared imagination and adventure. 12 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:49,840 Let's explore how these timeless game continues to shape young 13 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:53,520 minds and inspire a sense of wonder as well as hearing about 14 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,800 a local game store became the center of empowerment for a new 15 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:01,000 generation. It's dungeons, drag, and summer 16 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:03,320 dreams. How collaborative storytelling 17 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:07,560 empowers young minds to develop meaningful friendships. 18 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:11,920 So today I have asked Bethany from my local game store in 19 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:17,200 Games here in Springfield, IL to join me and talk about this D&D 20 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:18,680 summer camp. Bethany, how are you? 21 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:19,040 I'm great. How? 22 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:22,160 Are you good? So real quick, tell me a little 23 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:24,280 bit about yourself. How'd you get in AD and D? 24 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,120 And then what is your job title? How do you fit in Titan games? 25 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:30,480 Right. So as you introduced, I'm 26 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:34,760 Bethany, I do the social media and invent managing at the Titan 27 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,640 Game stores and I help all the other Titan Game stores with 28 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,520 that as well. And I'm also one of the DMS at 29 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,720 our Springfield location. And I primarily do a lot of the 30 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,520 kids DND, but I also do DND for grown-ups. 31 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,560 I was brought into DND back in college. 32 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,880 I actually started on 3.5 E not knowing that. 33 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:56,400 Quickly made the switch over to 5 E. 34 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,120 So I didn't even realize it forever and have been playing 5 35 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,200 E since then. And I've played for over 10 36 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,720 years at this point. And I've been Adm for probably, 37 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,880 I think now we're hitting Year 5 or 6 of DME. 38 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:11,760 Wow, 5 or 6? That's that's incredible. 39 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:15,080 A lot of years. 10 years of DND. 10 years. 40 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,320 How many of those years were you as a Dungeon Master? 41 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:20,680 Just the the five. Just the five. 42 00:02:20,920 --> 00:02:22,600 So you were five years just as a player? 43 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:26,400 Yeah, those are the dates. What is your favorite class and 44 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:28,120 race? So I'm a forever rogue. 45 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:32,000 OK I pretty much always 1 trick a rogue particular arcane 46 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:33,880 trickster. I always say I'm going to play 47 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:36,840 something else. I never do and I always go for 48 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,760 like gnomes and elves. OK, I can. 49 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:41,640 Yeah. All right, Because not everyone 50 00:02:41,640 --> 00:02:43,640 plays gnomes. Not everyone plays gnomes. 51 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,240 Elves is a pretty standard pick. Very right, but I don't know, 52 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:48,600 I've been into the gnomes lately. 53 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,560 So I know recently there was a book published. 54 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,320 I think there's two books now. It's like legends and lattes, 55 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:56,960 right? Yes, she's an orc. 56 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:58,680 Yes. Who's retired. 57 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:03,480 Yes, because she discovered a gnomish beverage that we know is 58 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,360 coffee. I decided to open a coffee shop, 59 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,160 which I think is amazing. It was great. 60 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:09,640 I read it. I read it as well, and it's 61 00:03:09,640 --> 00:03:12,200 pretty fantastic. And I'm like, I didn't realize 62 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,840 that there were gnomes in the D&D world. 63 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:16,280 I mean, I shouldn't be surprised. 64 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:21,520 In all fairness, I have been away from D&D for 30 years. 65 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:22,360 Maybe. Yeah. 66 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,120 Yeah. I love TTRPGS, but D&D is just 67 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:27,160 not. It's not kind of. 68 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,680 It's not like genre, no. But I love storytelling and I 69 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,600 love the idea that Titan hosted this summer camp for kids. 70 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,000 So why don't you tell us a little bit about, like, how did 71 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,040 that idea come into me? Whose idea was it? 72 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:40,880 Tell me about, like, the what made it before we get into the 73 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:42,760 actual experience for the kids. Yeah. 74 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:47,120 So myself and our owner Nick had always talked about wanting 75 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,080 kids, D&D and such, but we just never really quite had the 76 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:51,960 staff. And then it was actually when we 77 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:56,160 were attending Gamma, I went to a DND for Kids session. 78 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,440 So I was like, I'm bringing the store and they talked about 79 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:00,760 summer camp. And I was like, Nick, we've got 80 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,680 to do it. Like it's time, I'm here, let's 81 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,240 go. And I have been running and 82 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:11,280 opening up my DND sessions that I run one shots every week to 83 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,960 younger and younger audiences. And we started to grow that the 84 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,440 younger audience was consistently coming to those. 85 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:19,880 And I was like, it's our time. We've got kids showing up for 86 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:23,000 DND, like let's do it. So I mean, the biggest catalyst 87 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:27,000 was that that Gamma was at, because we both sat there and 88 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:28,440 talked about it. We're like, OK, we can do it. 89 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:31,560 And now we have the staff and we had other people that be here 90 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,880 and could just actually make it happen instead of just be this 91 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:36,720 idea of like, oh, we'd love to run D&D for kids. 92 00:04:36,840 --> 00:04:40,080 So what were some of the challenges that you found 93 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,920 leading up to the actual execution this summer camp? 94 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:51,480 Yeah, I think the hardest thing is running D&D for a kids table 95 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,360 and preparing that is entirely different than how I prepare for 96 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:56,600 a table of adults. Sure. 97 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:00,240 And like some of the things I started to notice, just like 98 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:05,280 within my sessions, is that the kids get so excited to do 99 00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:08,000 literally anything besides the quest you have in front of them. 100 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:13,120 So being prepared for that and then deciding when we did, 101 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,440 because we did the player camp and our DM camp, how we wanted 102 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:18,760 to split that up, what skills were going to be in that? 103 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,760 So we didn't want them to just come play DND for three hours a 104 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,080 day, right? And like what, what could we 105 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:27,680 incorporate into that that's not like too advanced or too boring, 106 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,240 but still a cool DND adjacent activities. 107 00:05:31,280 --> 00:05:34,320 I think kind of figuring out the ebb and flow of how the plane 108 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:36,560 has to work, while also figuring out like, what kind of 109 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,480 activities can we incorporate into these camps that kids are 110 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,000 actually going to have fun doing, right? 111 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:45,480 So, So what kind of events did you actually have and how did 112 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:47,320 that work? Like what did what did a 113 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,440 schedule look like for one of your attendees? 114 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:54,760 Yeah, so during player camp they all got split in. 115 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:58,000 We had another DM join me and we had two campaigns running at the 116 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,960 same time. So each day they would come and 117 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,080 we'd have like one other DND adjacent activity. 118 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:08,400 So the first day we did a lot of character building and we worked 119 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,200 on like building connections and building your back story. 120 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,720 Like I did a lot of those like campfire things I actually used 121 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:16,560 from Daggerheart. They have like the connection 122 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,960 cards now using that and like getting them into it. 123 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,520 And then the next day they came back and we had given them all 124 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:27,960 in miniature and we had a guest, our master painter came in and 125 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,880 kind of gave them tips to paint their miniature. 126 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,880 And then each day we went through the campaign 127 00:06:35,280 --> 00:06:37,080 consistently. And then the last day we just 128 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,480 had both of us plan these big, you know, encounters for them to 129 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:42,440 go through it. You know, I had them fight 2 130 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,920 Dragons in one battle and they were so excited 3 and they were 131 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:47,760 like, wow, we didn't. I was like, yeah. 132 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:52,880 That is, it's really cool. I mean, I don't, I don't, I find 133 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:54,520 myself speechless. I'm listening to you and I'm 134 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:58,200 like, the the fact that you didn't just run a week long 135 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:00,200 campaign, first of all is incredible. 136 00:07:00,280 --> 00:07:03,000 Kudos to you and your team. That's just amazing. 137 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:04,840 So there was like character creation. 138 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:06,160 Did they actually paint the minis? 139 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:06,920 They did. They did. 140 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:10,480 A lot of them did. Way better than I tend to do at 141 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,200 Vinnies. Painting a miniature is 142 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:14,080 difficult. They they must, there must be 143 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,040 little tiny hands they can like really get. 144 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,280 In right, right. Well, that's cool. 145 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,360 So it went what, 5 days? Five days? 146 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,800 Yeah, Three hours each day. OK, three hours. 147 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:27,480 OK. And we did do like extended drop 148 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:29,840 off and pick up periods, but then we just had, you know, like 149 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:31,960 coloring pages and that sort of stuff for them. 150 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:34,080 But because we did the half day, so we wanted to make sure 151 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,560 parents had time to drop off and whatever their work hours were 152 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:39,400 and pick up whenever their lunch period kind of. 153 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,440 Was so there was a meal involved or included or? 154 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:44,560 We did. We do like a small snack. 155 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,840 OK, OK. So we had, you know, muffins and 156 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,720 bananas, and that's cooling. How many attendees? 157 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:56,400 For our player camp we had 11 in total and for our DM camp it'll 158 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,960 be. 6 so there's going to be there's a DM camp as well, yes 159 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,640 OK, so. Structured entirely different. 160 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,160 OK. So we'll have to talk about that 161 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:06,680 too. That that's exciting. 162 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:09,160 So you had 11 kids. What were the What was the age 163 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,240 range? I think our youngest was 8 or 9 164 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:17,120 and our oldest was 16. 8 or 9 to 16. 165 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:21,160 So that means that if you want to play DND with your 8 year 166 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:25,600 old, you in fact can, you can't. So that's that's amazing. 167 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:31,880 How do you manage the story for the attention span and maybe the 168 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:37,320 imagination and the comprehension of concepts 8 to 169 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,200 16 year old, They're all in the same campaign together or did 170 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:42,799 you keep they are OK? No, yeah, we split them up. 171 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:44,440 OK. We were more heavily weighted 172 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,560 towards the younger kids. We didn't have as many of the 173 00:08:46,560 --> 00:08:48,320 older. So we just ended up splitting 174 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:52,160 them and like tried to make sure each group had a mixture of the 175 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:56,520 ages. I would say that how I handle I 176 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,160 won. I did a whole homebrew campaign. 177 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:02,800 The other DM did do a sourcebook, which I'd be 178 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,000 interested in how he really worked that. 179 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,320 The reason I lean into homebrew is because I will try to think 180 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,600 of like paths. So if here's encounter A, 181 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,600 there's one option that I think will happen here is option B. 182 00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:18,880 And then they kind of just keep making little branches of how 183 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:24,040 I'm going to get to the end. They often don't use the little 184 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,240 branches prepared. Of course not. 185 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,440 So, you know, I mean, that's part of the, I mean is just, you 186 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:32,320 know, making it up on the and I think it's just kind of being 187 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,840 prepared that I actually did the least amount of prep and the 188 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,560 loosest amount of outline for the kids and I do for anything 189 00:09:39,560 --> 00:09:42,280 else because it was like the first day I came in with this 190 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:45,520 massive outline and it was like out the window within the 1st 10 191 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,240 minutes of play. So I was like, what? 192 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:49,880 That is not unlike an adult's game. 193 00:09:50,680 --> 00:09:54,120 That's that's often true, yeah. So talk to me about, so the 194 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,520 first day you're prepped, you've got an outline and the kids 195 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,680 derail now. So what did that look like as 196 00:10:00,680 --> 00:10:04,440 opposed to adults derailing? I think most of us have played 197 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:07,160 as adults and we know we kind of know what that looks like. 198 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:10,320 But you got a group of kids and they derail the story too. 199 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,520 But so like what? What kind of details, what kind 200 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:18,200 of things attracted them that led the party to go in a 201 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:19,880 direction you didn't anticipate? Oh. 202 00:10:20,680 --> 00:10:24,280 So the premise of the campaign I had prepared was loosely 203 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:28,600 inspired by Throne of Glass series, where they were in these 204 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,720 trials, and I said they had to get the ruins from the trials. 205 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:33,440 So that's a little different than Throne of Glass. 206 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,560 And I was going to have this big reveal of the king and 207 00:10:37,560 --> 00:10:39,360 everything and that was out the window. 208 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:41,560 First of all, everyone was just like, oh, like Hunger Games. 209 00:10:41,560 --> 00:10:44,520 And I was like, OK, you are locked in The Hunger Games. 210 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:46,200 So that's how we're going to go about this. 211 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,320 And then the first day, how I had it is like I was going to 212 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,920 have that they need to get the four different elemental rooms, 213 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:53,560 right? And the first day was like a 214 00:10:53,560 --> 00:10:57,480 festival to kick off the trials because they're there to compete 215 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:02,200 to get these rooms for their town to re animate the wards or 216 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,360 whatever. And they went to the the 217 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,960 festival. They loved the snail racing, but 218 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:11,560 then they just wanted to go shopping. 219 00:11:11,560 --> 00:11:14,360 And I was like, no, we, we need to get to the next trial. 220 00:11:14,560 --> 00:11:17,680 And they were very locked into shopping the rest of the 221 00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:19,360 session. I was like, OK, at the end we 222 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,400 had like 10 minutes and I was like, you guys need to just tell 223 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,040 me whatever you want, right? Figure it out. 224 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,960 And I just from then I kind of made it that they would just 225 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:31,520 wake up in each trial that like, it wasn't an option to do 226 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,520 anything else, but within the trial they could do whatever. 227 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,400 And so like a lot of things is, you know, like I would present a 228 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:39,640 puzzle to them as part of the trial, right? 229 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:41,200 I didn't have a solution for the puzzle. 230 00:11:41,560 --> 00:11:44,880 I was just waiting until something sounded good enough. 231 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,160 OK, sure. You know, so which they come up 232 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,120 with a creative idea. It is because I always also, 233 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,080 like, I kind of locked in on like a Riddle during the 234 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,000 festival. And they weren't quite getting 235 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:55,600 there. Yeah. 236 00:11:55,680 --> 00:11:57,480 And so that's when my mom was like, I'm just going to like 237 00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:01,000 present like a mirror room with like a light beam and, you know, 238 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,160 whenever they make something that makes enough sense. 239 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,160 The mirror is going to back down, so you kind of let them 240 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,320 lead the narrative. Yeah, I did take, I've been 241 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,760 trying to incorporate more like the Daggerheart approach, where 242 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,680 Daggerheart really allows players to have a bit more 243 00:12:15,680 --> 00:12:19,960 impact on the narrative and the DM or GM is to really take that 244 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,280 into account of the story. And I've noticed that using that 245 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:26,360 particular with kids has been helpful because then they also 246 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,640 like feel cool, like they made some decision and they're like, 247 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:31,520 yeah, we're going to go do that. And it's like, yeah, you're 248 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:33,800 going to go do that. Let me prepare that in my brain 249 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:35,840 real fast. So give me a little bit of 250 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:37,840 background. Dagger Heart. 251 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,040 Dagger Heart. Dagger, dagger, heart. 252 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,480 So for myself, I have no idea what that is, and I probably 253 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,440 have listeners who don't either. Tell us a little bit about that. 254 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:52,360 Yeah, Dagger Heart is the new tabletop RPG, OK, It's created 255 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:58,680 by the creator's Critical Role. OK, so it's very D&D based, 256 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,040 sure, but there's quite a few differences. 257 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,760 It's definitely more like player driven narratives and there's 258 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:09,320 like this meta source that like the DM uses instead of like this 259 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,920 hope and fear. But a lot of it operates very 260 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,120 similar to DND. But they've really designed 261 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:18,000 something that feels like the players have more say of what's 262 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:23,800 going on then DND, where DND can sometimes feel that like DM 263 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:28,720 versus player where you know, like it's not supposed to be 264 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,800 that way. But no matter what you do and no 265 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,160 matter how hard you try, like it's always going to have an 266 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,520 element of that because I'm behind the screen and I'm making 267 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:42,000 the bad things happen, right? Whereas with Daggerhart, the 268 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,920 players say things and things can be happened. 269 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:48,280 Things can happen as a result of that. 270 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,880 And the DM has this resource that they expend to make the bad 271 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,960 things happen. So I don't use the resource like 272 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,200 in Daggerheart, but I really use that influence of like, ask your 273 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,880 players what kind of trees they see and incorporate those trees 274 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,320 into the story. Kind of like they really let 275 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,120 them have some control of the narrative and what's going on. 276 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:13,280 That is incredible and I'm surprised that that hasn't been 277 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:15,520 developed sooner. Yeah, I mean. 278 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:20,960 Yeah, not not to derail too much my experience, I have really 279 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,920 been enjoying the D20 systems from particularly Star Trek 280 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:28,080 adventures because it's more my type of genre. 281 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,600 Even the World of Darkness, long time ago to date myself. 282 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,760 You the story the story was very player driven did have a 283 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:40,160 storyteller but there would never be this US versus him or 284 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:44,200 her well that I always felt D&D kind of conveyed and was just a 285 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:46,840 little bit appealing so that was interesting and I was curious to 286 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,600 see how kids interacted with that but I'm really encouraged 287 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:55,240 by this model and I'm like maybe I want to get back into D and DI 288 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:59,080 don't know you guys you tell me send me Adm if you guys think I 289 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:03,680 should get back into D&D yeah there we go yes so was there 290 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,080 tell me what your favorite moment kids are playing my. 291 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,560 Favorite would have been the that final encounter for player 292 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,000 camp. As I said, I have this like one 293 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:14,520 shot I've developed and I mean, I normally run it through play 294 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:19,040 at like level 12, but I scale it down where they essentially have 295 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:23,280 to take all these runes, put them into, you know, the places 296 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:25,800 on the side or call it from holders, whatever. 297 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,480 And the entire time a dragon is attacking at the same time. 298 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,680 If they defeat the dragon, they get a round of combat to 299 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,760 continue doing stuff. But then a new dragon comes in 300 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,040 because they're just like fake Dragons. 301 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,840 I don't know, you lock the dragon in when you've done all 302 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,120 of the runes and that's how it ends. 303 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,240 And so we've destroyed one dragon. 304 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:47,400 They're still getting the room together. 305 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,560 I've sent the second dragon. And I mean, the second dragon 306 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:54,360 still had a lot of like, not a lot of help, but it was it was 307 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,960 still there, right? But then I said it was like weak 308 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,280 ish And the kids looked at the Ranger and this Ranger had been 309 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:05,400 like pumping out damage. OK, And they're like, this is it 310 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,160 If you get it, I think we're gonna take the dragon down and 311 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,320 the kid goes. And this kid was so cute. 312 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,520 He like would like take his dice and like blow on them every time 313 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:15,720 for like luck. And then he he rolled it. 314 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,600 It was a Nat 20 and he just did that and I was like okay, I 315 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,640 don't even care how much help you have killed this drag and 316 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:25,040 it's totally. I love it. 317 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:25,680 I love it. You're. 318 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,160 So excited and that was just a cool moment that I thought that 319 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,960 happened and. How about feedback from? 320 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:36,280 Have you gotten feedback from the attendees and what it would 321 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,920 it would it seemed to be what aspects did they like the most 322 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,480 and what aspects do they like the least based on the feedback 323 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,120 you've received, I. Think they like playing D&D and 324 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,200 they all like playing D with D with each other. 325 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,880 All the kids have asked can we keep playing together? 326 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:53,760 OK. And I mean, I've now offered two 327 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:57,800 additional kids DND one shots and I sent it out to the parents 328 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,080 and they're full within like an hour. 329 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:02,440 Wow. Like these kids are all so 330 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:04,680 excited to keep playing this game together. 331 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,560 Wow. Which I think is very cool. 332 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,319 I can't imagine. Well let's be fair, there's a 333 00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:14,079 reason why there's a stereotype that you can never get 5 DND 334 00:17:14,079 --> 00:17:16,560 players adults because they can't get their schedules 335 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:18,319 together. But even if they can get their 336 00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:22,040 schedule, I can't imagine 11 players together. 337 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,240 How's managing that? Well during the games we did 338 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,480 split so I took five and the other DM took six. 339 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:32,840 OK, the most I have at a table is 7, OK, which is is quite a 340 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:34,640 bit. Even with the seven players, it 341 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,080 is kind of a lot. There's a lot more compared to 342 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,240 like adults where you can kind of ask the table questions. 343 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,800 When we are going into something, I'll tell the kids 344 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,440 like, OK, we're going to go talk to this person. 345 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:48,800 Everyone take one minute and you're going to think of one 346 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:50,080 question you have for this person. 347 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:53,000 I like that. So it kind of pulling back. 348 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,520 I used to do a lot of teaching very early childhood music and I 349 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,280 just kind of pull back on all those things that I learned from 350 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,960 the Nair of like, OK, let's all think and then we're gonna go, 351 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,440 okay, you raised your hand. You wanna do something, you 352 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:06,560 wanna do something, we're all gonna get a chance to do 353 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:08,400 something, but we all have to go in order. 354 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:10,680 Okay. So I think there's just like, 355 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,360 it's almost like this element of like classroom management that 356 00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:15,160 has to happen. I could see that, sure. 357 00:18:15,360 --> 00:18:21,560 And kind of encouraging and also frankly, I say the word no a lot 358 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:23,600 like they can I do that? No, you can't. 359 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,760 Or I'll ask if it's not the first time I've had to say it, 360 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,240 What I'll ask the first time is like, how is that enabling the 361 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:31,320 story? How is that helping our goal? 362 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,200 Like they say, oh, I want to pickpocket my friend. 363 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:35,600 Well, we're all friends and we're all working together with 364 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:37,560 each other. So how would pickpocketing them 365 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,920 right now really help us manage our group dynamic and get 366 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,040 towards our goal today? Interesting. 367 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,920 So in the in my introduction, I had said one of the elements 368 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,080 that I talked about was that these kids developed the ability 369 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:52,880 for collaboration. And it sounds like you really 370 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,960 work to drive that home, that sense of collaboration. 371 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:01,320 I'm always a big fan of saying that DND is a game we're all 372 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:03,520 playing together again. I really try to break that. 373 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:05,800 Like I'm the DM and I'm against you, right? 374 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,240 Like we're all trying to achieve one goal. 375 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:12,520 Like I've created something that I want you to get through and 376 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,000 that the kids like we're all at this table together. 377 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,000 So we're here. And I think Halloween that like 378 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,640 connections, like at that beginning when we made them 379 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,760 establish like what is your character connected to this 380 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,160 character by? It does kind of help create 381 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:26,160 that. Like, OK, we're a group. 382 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:28,920 This is a group dynamic. We're all here to work together. 383 00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:30,880 Some of them still want to set things on fire. 384 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,480 It's what they're going to do. That is, I know a lot of adults 385 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:35,720 who just want to set things on fire too. 386 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,040 So how about the? How about the thing they like 387 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:42,920 the least? I do you think the least 388 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:48,480 receptive activity would be probably like I found this like 389 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,200 pseudo escape room, but it was really just a bunch of puzzles 390 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,000 that they had to figure out. We kind of let them do it all. 391 00:19:55,120 --> 00:19:58,000 Some of them really liked it and even in my campaign, like when 392 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,280 we were in like the water trial, which was a lot of puzzles. 393 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,880 I feel like a lot of them kind of check out, but there's some 394 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,520 that are like super into it. So it is a bit of a heart of a 395 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:12,480 balance, but I think that that might be the least well received 396 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:14,720 thing. So we needed something for them 397 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,480 to do and like get up and move. It was like getting late in the 398 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:19,960 week and I was like, they need to, they need to work some of 399 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,880 this energy out. I get that, and unfortunately 400 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,760 that only appeals to a certain personality. 401 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:27,760 There's like a very specific type who's really. 402 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,520 So that's, that's interesting. I like that you did that and you 403 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,720 did some sort of a getting up and moving activity incorporated 404 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:38,080 into the story, which is just absolutely amazing. 405 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,040 I'd like to see more of that in adult campaign instead of us 406 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:43,920 like just telling you how we're going to solve a puzzle, put a 407 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,520 puzzle. And yeah, that's that's 408 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:48,960 fantastic. So one of the things that I've 409 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,520 observed through my experience is you get through particularly 410 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:57,640 combat, you have an everyone roles initiative, talk about 411 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,760 role initiative. You use that as a metaphor, role 412 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,400 initiative and do this. But unfortunately, while DND is 413 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:08,760 not turn based, everyone has to take a turn and everyone's got 414 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:13,560 different attention spans. How was that experience and how 415 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:17,080 successful do you think it was? The kids were able to stay 416 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,880 focused long enough. Yeah, combat is definitely the 417 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,440 thing that I think is the hardest turn with kids because 418 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,480 of that factor. And because we get so many kids 419 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,480 at every table, I'm not running a table of three or four kids, 420 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,680 right? I just try to keep it moving. 421 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:37,120 And then when I start to see them lose focus, I will just 422 00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:40,960 often do the teacher thing. And I'm like, hey, what did she 423 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,560 just do over here? What did she just do? 424 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,000 And what can you do in response to that to help the battle? 425 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:51,160 So like trying to let them actively see that like when 426 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,480 you're in D&D combat, you all have your own turn. 427 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:57,600 But like, and that's why I do the dragon battle that I was 428 00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,320 talking about, because like they all have to work together. 429 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,440 They have to find the runes, they have to put them in the 430 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,280 like obelisks and they have to fight this dragon. 431 00:22:04,360 --> 00:22:08,000 They need to all work together and collaborate on their turns. 432 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,640 Like, OK, if I find this route, you're going to stand over there 433 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:12,640 and I'm going to I'm going to throw the room to you and you're 434 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,760 going to put it in and I'm going to keep fighting the dragon. 435 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:19,440 You know, so it gives them a bit more to do, but it's a lot of 436 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,120 just redirecting. I mean, it's just, I mean, even, 437 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,120 you know, table of adults, you get into those 3 hour combats 438 00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:29,320 and like you're just, you're, you're gone, right, right. 439 00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:32,800 So I think it's just like keeping it moving and keeping 440 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,560 the narrative going. And something that I didn't do 441 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,480 quite as much, but this was inspired by that gamma 442 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:42,680 presentation is like when they describe something like if 443 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,000 there's losing focus, like get them up and like show you how 444 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,920 they do it Now. I only used it like they killed 445 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:50,960 a creature. I said explain to me, show me 446 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:52,880 like, how did you just kill this creature? 447 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,240 Because I like to make it like a moment for them. 448 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:56,400 They got the killing blood, right? 449 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,520 So like, sure, you get to have your big moment, right. 450 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:03,080 But yeah, just adding in little things to help them. 451 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,880 So fidget toys. I give out fidget toys like 452 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,480 candy and my D&D. Fidget toys. 453 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,000 That's good. That's good advice. 454 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:11,320 Yeah, that's really great advice. 455 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:12,240 So. Great. 456 00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:15,120 What about? Well, I guess I should ask this 457 00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:17,400 first. Were any of the kids playing a 458 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,600 more social character rather than a physical one? 459 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,640 Some. Do so you did have the Bard or 460 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,480 the charismatic whatever. So I'm thinking about how you're 461 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,960 in a scene and you know, it's it's the you're in the bar, 462 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,920 you're or you're in the you're in the Tavern or you're in The 463 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:38,280 Cave and you're talking to the old man or the Prince or whoever 464 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,040 sends you in your quest or wherever, right. 465 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:44,040 And then that tends to be kind of difficult for the more 466 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,080 physical characters to be paying attention. 467 00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:52,800 How did you manage those scenes? So when we go somewhere, First 468 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,240 off, some of my kids are probably my best role players at 469 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,160 the table, OK? Like, they get into it, they're 470 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,160 locked in. Yeah, And they're like, I have 471 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,920 this girl who insists on being a mouse every time. 472 00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:08,680 She uses her mouse voice every time, always talks in character. 473 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,200 Incredible for everyone. I think it's a lot of that, 474 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:13,800 Like, think of what you might be doing. 475 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:15,920 And I just go around like, what are you doing right now? 476 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,000 What are you doing right now? And then I kind of rotate around 477 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,160 and say, OK, you 2 are going over to the bar, Let's figure 478 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:23,320 that out. What are you 3 going to be 479 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:24,640 doing? OK, why don't you guys think of 480 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,080 what you're going to do? We're going to play this out. 481 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:31,160 We'll come back to you. OK, so I feel like I give them a 482 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,080 lot of space to kind of think about it and always ask them 483 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,320 like, what are you doing? Because like it helps remind 484 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:39,720 them that like at all points, your character is doing 485 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,880 something in game. And even if you're one that kind 486 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,520 of wants to stay behind, like maybe the character isn't 487 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:48,800 talking, but they're looking around and trying to find 488 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:54,080 someone who's useful or they're trying to observe someone at the 489 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,520 Tavern who might have weighted dice that they can try to swipe 490 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,320 or whatever kind of appeals to them. 491 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,080 Kind of give them something to do without making them 492 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,200 necessarily have to talk in character if they're just like 493 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:10,480 not quite there, but I try like I don't do voices for my adults. 494 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:14,240 I am not a voice DM, but I will for the kids to make them feel 495 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,200 comfortable doing silly stuff at the table because like I have 496 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,360 two voices probably. I have a high pitched fairy and 497 00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:23,520 like kind of a man voice, but like not really. 498 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,040 So that's what they get and. So it's funny, but my listeners 499 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:29,920 are going to be really mad if I don't. 500 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:31,040 Can you? Can you? 501 00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:33,760 Can you do them just? Okay, the fairy boy. 502 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:35,880 Yeah. And then if it's like an old, 503 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,520 old, old person or man, the kind of one together, Yeah. 504 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:41,680 Are you getting there? Okay. 505 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,280 Oh, my God, that's great. Thank you for sharing that. 506 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,080 That is incredible. I love that. 507 00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:51,640 Oh my God, that's. That's too much. 508 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:52,880 That is too much. Yeah. 509 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:57,880 That's so the key seems to be keeping them moving, keeping 510 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,600 them engaged, thinking about what they're going to do in the 511 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,560 next scene or when it's their turn or something like that. 512 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:06,520 That's, that seems to be really important. 513 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:10,640 What other if let's say anyone's watching or listening and 514 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,480 they're thinking about playing DND with the kids or any any 515 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,720 other piece of advice that you've gleaned from this 516 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,640 experience like this is a must. I would just say like go in with 517 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,760 almost no expectations for what's going to happen. 518 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,160 Like kind of just know that it's going to be whatever. 519 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:31,400 And that's kind of what's fun with the kids is that they, they 520 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:35,880 just bring so much like spark and spontaneity to the table. 521 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,040 Whereas like, you know, adults like focus and they're like, 522 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:39,960 we're going to go get the sword and they're going to go get the 523 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,240 sword where the kids are like we're going to do this and also 524 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:43,840 do this. And I'm going to take this weird 525 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:47,840 approach to get there. He's going to be like, all 526 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:49,400 right, we're going for it. I'm. 527 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,560 Going to get the sword, I'm going to dig the hole, but I'm 528 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,400 going to go upstairs and that's how I'm going to do it. 529 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,040 One kid didn't want like I ran a temple thing where they had to 530 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,280 go in the temple and break the curse and it was in the ocean. 531 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:02,840 The kids like, I don't want to go. 532 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,360 And I was like, OK, well, we have to go, right? 533 00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:07,960 And I looked at the other tables like, does anyone want to help 534 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:09,680 them go? And the one kid just like, yeah, 535 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,880 I'm going to grab them so they can go with us. 536 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,560 And I was like, thank you. So you kind of just, OK, let 537 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,760 them do things and you let them have their moments. 538 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,160 Like every kid and adult wants to set things on fire. 539 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,440 I have created opportunities where that is the appropriate 540 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,000 response and I let them set things on fire. 541 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,240 OK, so let's talk about the the kid who's like, I'm going to 542 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:30,600 grab him so he can come. Yeah. 543 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,000 So those types of player interactions. 544 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:39,320 Do you allow them or make them roll their dice for that to see 545 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,000 if they? If it is helping the story, I 546 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,360 kind of just let it happen. If it's against the story, I 547 00:27:45,360 --> 00:27:48,160 would make them roll OK. So again, that situation, like 548 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:52,040 we just needed to convince this player to not sit on the beach. 549 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,800 OK. And that was the way they were. 550 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,360 And they were just having one of those days. 551 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,080 You know, kids have those days. They do. 552 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,240 So I was just like, OK, Yep, you do that, right? 553 00:28:02,360 --> 00:28:03,840 Yeah. But like, if they were like, 554 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,000 well, I want to try to do this. At first I ask how is that 555 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:08,720 enabling like a group dynamic, right. 556 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,480 And then if it's still something that's like, OK, but like the 557 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,080 other players like, well, I don't really want to do that, 558 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:14,520 then I make them roll. OK. 559 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,760 But because kids like to roll, I would never do that in adult 560 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:19,480 table. No, absolutely not. 561 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,880 You know, like adults have learned that, like, you are 562 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,000 going to do what your character wants to do and that's how it's 563 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:26,840 going to go. But with the kids, it's just 564 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,280 they just want to roll. And if they roll, in a way, I 565 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,760 just kind of try to make it narrative in a way that makes 566 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,880 sense for both of the characters so the other kid doesn't feel 567 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,800 like you're making them do something they don't want to do. 568 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,520 Right. How do you handle consequences? 569 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,320 Because sometimes, because sometimes you roll that Nat one 570 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:53,120 and you fail the test, right? And kids are more, not more. 571 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,320 They're just emote differently. And they really don't want to 572 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,320 roll the Nat one. There's a lot of kids. 573 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:00,840 I have had so many kids. Quite literally, they'll roll 574 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,840 their dice and then they just flip it like right in front of 575 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:04,520 me. Like I got it. 576 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,200 That's funny. Like I literally just watched 577 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,120 you roll that. You do not. 578 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:12,360 OK, all right, so how? I tend to handle it is first of 579 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,880 all, even with adults I don't do like the critical fails or the 580 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:16,160 critical fumbles. OK. 581 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,400 I take all skill checks to generally be how the skill is 582 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,360 received. OK, unpack that for a little 583 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,200 bit. So like if you're talking to 584 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:29,760 someone and you want to talk to the shopkeeper and they're 585 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,640 saying this is 20 gold and you say I want it to be 18 gold, 586 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,040 first I ask how do how are you asking? 587 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:36,560 And the second after I have that. 588 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,480 So I have their approach and I have my NPC's vibe. 589 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,800 Once they roll, it's against what that NPC would react. 590 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,440 So like, if you roll in at 20, they're probably going to react 591 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,600 positively. Unless there's a possible task, 592 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,120 like you can't convince the dragon to just not fight you, 593 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,080 the Dragon's going to fight you. But if you try to do that and 594 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:01,320 you roll a dice check of 19 or 20, the Dragon's not going to 595 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,040 eat you. He'll fight you, but not. 596 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,920 He's going to fight you, but he's not going to eat you and 597 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,280 he's not going to get mad that you tried to tell him whatever. 598 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,280 So like on that one just means like, yeah, you went up to the 599 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,080 shopkeeper and maybe you like stuttered through it and they 600 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,000 just couldn't understand what you were saying. 601 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,320 You just got nervous and you were just like, I think it 602 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,800 should be 8 tinkled and the shock he'd be like what? 603 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:24,160 What did he say? I can't hear you. 604 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,480 You got to speak up because then also kind of gives them an 605 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:29,640 opportunity. To try to re roll so that. 606 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,560 Which is another thing I don't do with adults, but I do with. 607 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,200 Sure. No, I it's a totally different 608 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:35,680 there's. A lot of roles that I say no 609 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,200 with adults, but with kids, no, I let it happen. 610 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,920 Sure, but you still are. You're you're allowing them to 611 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,040 re roll. Yeah, but you're doing it in 612 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:48,000 such a way that it's woven into the narrative. 613 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,800 So like if it were a movie or a television series and I'm 614 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,200 watching it, I could see this kid mumble and then he's like, 615 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:56,040 what? I can't hear you. 616 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,640 I you could see that, you see that visually and that's, that's 617 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,200 good. So I tried to do that unless 618 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,320 it's something that they're going to fail, then I just say 619 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,720 like you don't execute this. And something I constantly 620 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,840 remind them that the Nat 20s are only cool because of the Nat 621 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,880 ones, correct? Like it is not cool to get a Nat 622 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,400 20 over and over again because then it's going to like lose its 623 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:17,480 flavor. Exactly. 624 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,040 But like because you rolled that two or that three or that Nat 625 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,960 one, like the next time when you get the Nat 20, like that's when 626 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,040 it's super cool. What if you make a big deal 627 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,440 about they roll a Nat 11? Why does the 20 and the why does 628 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,640 the one in the 20 have to be so special? 629 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,080 I mean, I, I understand why, but still, right. 630 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,440 That's that's that. So that that's that is some 631 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:39,360 really great. That sounds like a great 632 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:40,840 experience. Yeah, seems like it was 633 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:42,480 rewarding for you as well as the kids. 634 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:46,400 So you mentioned there's DM camp? 635 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:47,320 DM. Camp, OK. 636 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:51,280 Now for those of you listening, so we just had Gen. 637 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,800 Con and it just passed. But at the time of this 638 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:57,600 recording, the DM camp has not has not yet occurred. 639 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:03,080 So everything that we're about to talk about has happened by 640 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,720 the time you're listening, but has not yet happened by the time 641 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,640 we talk about it. So we can only talk about what 642 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,960 your expectations are and what your plans are. 643 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,800 So tell us a little bit about this DM summer camp. 644 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,840 And it is it. It's also kids as well, OK? 645 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:19,800 Older range, which kind of makes sense. 646 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,720 Sure. And I'm actually like, I think I 647 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,800 might be more excited for this camp because I just really love 648 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,720 like teaching other people how to DM and like getting other 649 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,600 people to be this person because I think it's really fun. 650 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,360 Also, the more of us there are, the more of us that we get to 651 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,000 play every once in a. While that is true, DMS never 652 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,520 get to play. Never get to play, but so how 653 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,640 we're kind of loosely sitting up at this point is we're going to 654 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,480 have like outlines of one shots and throughout the week, the 655 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,960 kids are going to learn various skills to kind of flesh out that 656 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,200 one shot. And the goal is at the end of 657 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,760 the week, they'll run it for me and the other DM and the other 658 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,560 campers. So these all be shorter, but 659 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:03,800 we're going to work on things like they'll get a miniature, 660 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,400 but it'll be a monster miniature instead this time. 661 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,800 And we want to do like map making. 662 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,480 So we'll have them draw out a map and like go over like how 663 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,440 you mark different things on the map and some ways to do that. 664 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,480 And we're going to like touch on world building and how to like 665 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,320 create and like flesh out that narrative as you're going there. 666 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,720 And then doing things like how to set a dice check. 667 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,680 Like when you do that, like how do you evaluate that on the fly 668 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:36,080 or read a monster stat block or modify the monster stat block to 669 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,040 fit what you're gonna run? Because I think that those are 670 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,280 like some of the major things that VMS have to do all of the 671 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:47,960 time that don't often get like looked at is that you can run AI 672 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:52,240 ran Dragons for level threes. I just modified the heck out of 673 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:56,400 those stat blocks, right? So teaching them that they can't 674 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,120 make whatever work for whatever table they want. 675 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,080 It's kind of the goal of the camp. 676 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:05,040 So there's no campaign. There's I don't think at this 677 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:06,920 point we really plan to run anything. 678 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,560 We might run like all one shot for them just so they can like 679 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,480 see us. But most of these kids came to 680 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,239 player camp, right? So like they know. 681 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,320 So that's kind of what we're going for is kind of really 682 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:22,480 developing those skills to that they can go home and run a one 683 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,120 shot or like start creating their own campaigns, working it 684 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,600 out and prepare or like grab one of the books off the shelf and 685 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,639 like be ready to like know what that book is saying and they 686 00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:33,000 could go run it for their friends. 687 00:34:33,159 --> 00:34:35,400 How many attendees do you currently have? 688 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:37,920 6/6. So it's a smaller group which I 689 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:39,719 think actually will work really well. 690 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:43,840 And the youngest? I think the youngest is like 11 691 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:45,159 or 12. OK. 692 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,560 I don't think 10 and under is. Right, OK, but still that's. 693 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,440 Still still younger. That's that's a that's a heavy 694 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,719 lift for anyone, let alone an 11 year old. 695 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:55,679 Yeah. What are you? 696 00:34:55,679 --> 00:34:59,200 What do you hope? What are you hoping for? 697 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:03,800 I know what you're hoping for, Marty, but, like, how are you 698 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,360 preparing for that? Because this is different. 699 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:07,000 Teach. Yeah. 700 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,560 So what are you doing to prepare for this? 701 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,880 So I mean, we're still meeting to kind of figure it out. 702 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,120 The other DM who's helping me has like kind of like crowd 703 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:20,840 sourced like from other DMS that we all know. 704 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,280 Like what is the one thing you think Adm needs to know? 705 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:25,760 Which some have been pretty good. 706 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,360 Some are like, OK, are these still our kids that you know, 707 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:32,240 and kind of figuring out like the steps when I prepare, like a 708 00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:35,160 one shot, Like what what am I doing when I prepare? 709 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,360 And then what happens when I'm in game? 710 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,400 Because like the preparation part is the easy part of DM in, 711 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,200 in my opinion, it's the end game when things are not going the 712 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,400 way things need to go. And how do you modify and switch 713 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,200 things around to make the game still feel good without that? 714 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,440 So the preparation part is the fun part because you get to like 715 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,200 craft your world and craft your one shot and craft the 716 00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,520 narrative. But I would say that the hard 717 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,160 part is the when you're behind the screen and your players 718 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:06,600 suddenly run off and do whatever and set fire to the pirate ship 719 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:08,640 or whatever and you're just like, what now? 720 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:10,880 There's the treasure going in the, the sea. 721 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:12,160 How do I help? Right. 722 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,800 Yeah. So let's say I'm you've had this 723 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:16,520 thought. I've had this conversation for 724 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,640 countless years. I've had this observations made 725 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,400 and I can even see I can see these kids asking the same 726 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,120 question as well. Why should IDM? 727 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,080 Why don't I just go home and write a story? 728 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,320 That's a great question, right. So this is, I mean, this is 729 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,720 something that I've recently kind of dealt with myself part. 730 00:36:35,720 --> 00:36:40,840 I like the collaborative storytelling, sure of it, where 731 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,920 like, I'm not necessarily writing a book, like I've 732 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:48,040 created this world and these ideas of things that will 733 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,680 happen, but the actual happenings are still up to 734 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,320 players. And I think it's fun to have 735 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,080 that input. Whereas like, yeah, I can go 736 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:01,120 home and write a book and I can, you know, write out this whole 737 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,400 story that I have in my head. And no player can disrupt that 738 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:04,920 story. It's. 739 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:09,520 True, that's very true. There's no derailing of my book. 740 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:11,960 Absolutely. I'm writing however I think 741 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,000 like, I mean, just the social aspect and that's you get to do 742 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,640 something different and the role-playing aspect just adds to 743 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:20,040 it. Like, who doesn't want to 744 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,000 pretend they're a little gnome rogue, I mean. 745 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,520 No, I get that. I I definitely get that. 746 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,400 So what about two-part question? One is, have you thought about 747 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:28,480 this yourself? Yeah. 748 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,440 And two, are you prepared to talk about it if one of your 749 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,800 attendees to the DM camp asked this very question? 750 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,880 Maybe they don't articulate it in this way, but have you ever 751 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:44,240 gotten yourself so fixated on building your world and you make 752 00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:47,080 it way more complicated? You know, the players aren't 753 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:52,600 going to appreciate that this this character who appears for 754 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:58,240 five seconds in this underwater temple is like really the person 755 00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:00,680 in charge of this thing And and they may or may not ever 756 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,280 experience right. So you can you can get really 757 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,240 bogged down in your narrative. You can't. 758 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,640 I've seen a lot of my friends, a lot of DMS, storytellers, this 759 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,680 happens and they bunk screwed. I'm just gonna write a book and 760 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,840 maybe or maybe they don't get published as a published writer. 761 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:18,320 I have seen some of them publish their stuff, self publish of 762 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:22,560 course, but so that So have you experienced that and how would 763 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,000 you handle that if the kids asked the same thing? 764 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:29,760 So I would say that yes, there's been some experience and 765 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,600 actually my experience has been worse when I'm using like the 766 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:36,600 actual DND source material really, because I get so like 767 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:38,960 locked in to what that book has said. 768 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,440 Oh sure. And I mean, I can think of what 769 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:42,720 I mean. This is an adult's, but I was 770 00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:46,720 running cursive Strad and they ran into this werewolf den and 771 00:38:46,720 --> 00:38:50,440 just like assassinated this woman werewolf who was praying 772 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:52,960 and like she was like their more connection. 773 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,080 She was their Lord drop and they just, they just killed her. 774 00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,480 And that was one of the moments where I mean I just turned to 775 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:02,040 them and I, I was like all of you out five minutes because I 776 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,720 need we need to reevaluate what's going on here. 777 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:09,000 So I do think that there's value in recognizing if you as Adm are 778 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,200 running something and like you're just stuck like take 5 779 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,920 minutes with your group or like if it's closer to like end the 780 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,320 session and give yourself time to refigure it out. 781 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,280 Like you don't you don't have to do whatever you were set out to 782 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,080 do. But as far as like, well, I 783 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:23,520 really have this really cool idea. 784 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,400 Like if you have a really cool idea and you only want One 785 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,160 Direction for it, then like, yes, you should write a book. 786 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,720 But if you want this like, collaborative storytelling 787 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,880 experience with your friends, then that's what D&D is. 788 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,680 Yeah. So like, you are looking for 789 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,440 this experience. You're not looking for the 790 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:42,480 story. And like, yeah, it's really cool 791 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,240 that if I can write this really cool moment for my friends to 792 00:39:45,240 --> 00:39:49,000 have, like that's so cool. But like, and like, if I've made 793 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:50,760 the world like they're already having a great time. 794 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:52,720 They're playing in your world. They're probably having a great 795 00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:54,520 time. I know it's common for DMS to be 796 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:56,960 like, but did you have fun? Did you did you like it? 797 00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,520 Like I asked my husband that every time he played Z&D with 798 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:00,360 me. Was it fun? 799 00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,960 Did you have a good time? The kids are much more 800 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:04,560 forthcoming with that information. 801 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:06,360 So that's that's great. But. 802 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,880 Man, this was stupid. Sometimes they were. 803 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:10,800 Yeah, but. Then you know when the at the 804 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:12,960 end of the camp, when the kid goes like, thank you so much for 805 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:14,640 running such a great adventure. He hugged me. 806 00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,320 I was like, hey. That's amazing. 807 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:20,280 But I would say that's a different and you can do pull 808 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,520 right. Like I like write my own home 809 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,000 brew. I do a lot of one shots. 810 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,680 I have some campaigns in the works. 811 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,520 I have one campaign that I finished and then at the same 812 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:34,320 time, like I am trying to write my own little fantasy book 813 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,560 because like I like to do that and I don't want anyone to 814 00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,680 disrupt that story. I have a very clear vision for 815 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:41,480 that story. Well, and you're creative so 816 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,560 that that makes. Sense you can use both outlets. 817 00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:52,840 So I want to talk about map, map maps, map making cartography. 818 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:56,120 OK, so for the for the DM camp. Yeah. 819 00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:01,640 Are you using graph paper? Are you using gridded paper? 820 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:05,040 Is it free form? Because there are a lot of 821 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:09,760 opinions. There are a lot of opinions 822 00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,040 about maps and how they should be redrawing. 823 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:15,160 My God, there's. Which is ridiculous, right? 824 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,440 Get me to point A&B. Let me know where I'm at. 825 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,560 I don't need all that. So what is? 826 00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,520 Yeah, there you go. What's the map making event 827 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:27,120 going to look like? So I use I like a big like desk 828 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,160 pad of just like 1 by 1 inch grid paper. 829 00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:32,720 And so that's what I'm going to be bringing because I want them 830 00:41:32,720 --> 00:41:35,320 to be able to use this. And that's the standard. 831 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,400 I I mean, I'm an advocate for hex maps. 832 00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,320 Sure, I think they're great. I think they make movement a lot 833 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:43,160 more sense because you're not thinking, well, if I move 834 00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:47,000 diagonal, technically I'm moving more than 5 feet because math, 835 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:51,280 but right, no, thank you. So we'll just kind of base it 836 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,120 and like what I want is just they're going to make like an 837 00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:54,800 encounter room. So it's not going to be a whole 838 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:58,680 like like what I envisioned like in a dungeon or anything like 839 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:00,480 that. Like I want them to look at the 840 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:04,560 one shots that we give them the outlines and say, OK, this this 841 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:06,440 is the part that's going to need the map, right? 842 00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,920 And kind of draw out your map and draw like what what 843 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:11,880 obstacles are going to be in the room? 844 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:13,880 And is this part going to be higher? 845 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:16,800 Is this part going to be lower? Like kind of that. 846 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:22,160 So very simple, very simple map. OK, Nothing like a big world, 847 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,400 anything like. That right are there, is there 848 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,440 homework ahead of time there? Is not. 849 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:29,160 No. So they're coming in cold. 850 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:30,760 Coming in cold and you're gonna I'm. 851 00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:32,680 Sure, they'll have ideas. Well, they will. 852 00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,040 They always have ideas. Which is why they've signed up 853 00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:39,320 for the for the event. So what? 854 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,920 So you have map making, you're going to give them a larger 855 00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,240 miniature. They're going to paint that with 856 00:42:44,240 --> 00:42:47,680 the paint master as well. You're going to talk. 857 00:42:47,720 --> 00:42:50,520 So there was a lot of, what I heard was a lot of concepts, 858 00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,800 yeah, a lot of world building, things of that nature. 859 00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,680 So what? So are you going to run? 860 00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:03,200 You have 6 attendees, so will there be 6-1 shots they're each 861 00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:05,880 going to run? And will the players be the 862 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,160 other DM attendees for each of their one shots? 863 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:15,720 So the pressure is really on for both the first DM who's at it 864 00:43:15,720 --> 00:43:20,800 cold and the last who's seen the previous 5, right? 865 00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:24,200 That is always the worst. Like as as a podcaster when I'm 866 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,320 interviewing like game designers, like I had a, there 867 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:30,120 was a game designer and I, I was his first meeting of the con. 868 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:32,960 And I'm like, man, there's a lot of pressure here because I'm 869 00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,480 setting the tone and everyone else is just going to be like 870 00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:37,640 blow me out of the water or whatever. 871 00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:42,520 But I can feel that. How do you foresee managing 872 00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:44,320 those emotions that might come up? 873 00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:48,960 What I, I think is hopefully I think we will try to split them 874 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,960 into two smaller groups, so groups of four with one and one 875 00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:57,560 of us and that me and the other DM will be there to kind of 876 00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:00,840 prompt and help. I'm the same way when I help 877 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:02,600 adults. I'm really encouraging a lot of 878 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,760 my friends to be DMS and what I say is like, OK, well you were 879 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:07,560 on a one shot. Like this is the group we play 880 00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:09,840 with every week. I'm going to be right here. 881 00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,240 If you get stuck, I'm going to jump in and help you until you 882 00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:13,880 tell me if you're ready to go again. 883 00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:17,520 OK, nice. And so I'm anticipating using 884 00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:21,680 that method, but I think like, I think being nervous is OK. 885 00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:25,840 Like it's, it's scary. I mean, I'm damn for six years 886 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,040 or whatever, I still get nervous, especially when it's 887 00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:30,920 something I've written. Like if it's a sourcebook, I can 888 00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:32,360 blame the sourcebook if it's bad. 889 00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:36,480 But if if I'm running it and it's bad, like that's on me. 890 00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,640 Like I created that encounter. I get that. 891 00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:42,040 I totally understand that. Nervous and I think just letting 892 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,000 them know that and like. I totally understand that. 893 00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:46,800 That makes perfect sense. Yeah. 894 00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:48,760 Yeah. That's that's awesome. 895 00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:52,360 So are there any anything else that you're really excited 896 00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:55,040 about? Looking forward to this DM camp. 897 00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:59,160 No, I as far as DM camp, I mean, we've kind of covered a lot of. 898 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,960 It I think you did, yeah. So you're gonna be a Gen. 899 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:03,320 Con? I am going to be a Gen. 900 00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:05,760 Con. OK, so here's my recommendation 901 00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:07,800 to those of you. Unfortunately, you're listening 902 00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:11,080 to this after the fact, but hopefully you've seen Bethany. 903 00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:13,480 She'll be a Gen. Con and she can tell you all 904 00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:17,480 about what happened during this camp or you can, you know, reach 905 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,400 out. So tell people where they can 906 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,720 find you both on your socials and Titan games. 907 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,840 Yeah, so my Titan Games e-mail is 908 00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:32,760 justbethanybethany@titangames.com. You're welcome to find me on 909 00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:34,600 social, though. The best 1 is going to be 910 00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:38,040 Instagram and that is just at Bethany the Bard. 911 00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,560 Because Bethany is the Bard. I am the Bard. 912 00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:42,560 Even though she's a gnome. Rogue. 913 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,720 Yeah, in real life, I'm a Bard. In real life, she's a Bard. 914 00:45:45,720 --> 00:45:46,520 The. Indie I'm a rogue. 915 00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:48,280 Yes. Also want to say for those of 916 00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,560 you who are watching this on Spotify or YouTube, we are in 917 00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:54,800 fact at Titan Games. We're in one of the two rooms 918 00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:56,160 that was used in the summer camp. 919 00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,120 This is the tree room. So Bethany, thank you so much 920 00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,960 for giving us the space. There's another room just to my 921 00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:06,920 right here, which is the, what do we call it, the Tavern Tavern 922 00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,440 room. I will say that putting up this 923 00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:13,200 wallpaper is a challenge. It was most fun I've ever. 924 00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:19,400 Had, yeah, no, but you and I put up the Tavern wallpaper and that 925 00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:22,280 was a real challenge. But thank you again for the 926 00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:24,520 space and talking about this experience. 927 00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:27,440 I think this is great. Guys, please make sure to like 928 00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:29,840 and subscribe. And we're trying to reach 100 929 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:33,800 subscribers by October when our YouTube channel will be a year 930 00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:37,000 old. You should be flying back or 931 00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:39,560 driving back from Gen. Con as you're listening to this, 932 00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:43,920 so make sure to spread the word, add, make sure to be kind to 933 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,120 each other and play more games.