1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,840 Welcome to Meeple to Meeple uniting players around the 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:06,600 world, a 30 minute exploration of TJ and Gareth's four-game 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:09,480 experiences from across both sides of the Atlantic. 4 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:12,720 Each episode, they share their thoughts and opinions on the 5 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,280 World of War games, including their favorite themes, games, 6 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:22,160 hot topics, and much, much more. Hey gang and welcome to Episode 7 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:28,560 79 Board Game Teaching Tips. How do you like to teach a board 8 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:32,119 game? I, as always I am PJ and. 9 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:36,240 I am Gareth. And Gareth's ready to tell me 10 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,240 how he likes to teach. I love teaching games. 11 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:42,440 You do. You really do. 12 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,720 Nice things. I just like to read a good rule 13 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:47,280 book. That might be just I'm 14 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,400 reasonably sad, but I'll read a rule book for fun and my wife 15 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,680 looks to me that I am sick in the head by. 16 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:55,360 Reading a rule. Book just for fun. 17 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,840 If I'm honest, I can't stay in rulebooks. 18 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:01,680 I they're important, but I don't like them. 19 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:04,239 I'm not. Not a fan? 20 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:07,520 Is that a thing? Is that a concentration thing? 21 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:10,520 Or because we we all learn differently, Different. 22 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,960 Some people learn it's true. And reading and you know, Yep, 23 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:18,680 tactile learning. For me, I have. 24 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:23,240 I've started to geek out over player aides. 25 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:25,760 Oh, that's another episode, isn't? 26 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:31,080 It it is, yeah. I, I, I would prefer that you 27 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:36,640 spend more time on a good player aid, but you need the rulebook. 28 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:39,720 So you know, and that's what we're here to talk about, right. 29 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:45,000 So do you want to tell everyone why we're talking about this 30 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:49,040 this week? I can't remember because last 31 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,360 week we talked about something and I've now cleared in my mind 32 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,120 you should be explained to everybody because I. 33 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:55,680 OK, I've. Forgotten. 34 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,200 Well, I I was giving you an opportunity to shine, right? 35 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:00,400 Because I love rule books, isn't it? 36 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:01,760 It's all about me. It is. 37 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,560 It's all about you. So when I was when I was an 38 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,400 undergrad and took a theatre class, they always taught us to 39 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:09,960 make your partner look seen, make sure your your partner 40 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:11,280 looks good. And so I was trying to make you 41 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:12,040 look good. But. 42 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:15,960 It it, it felt it felt flat. It's OK. 43 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:18,920 So you and I were talking about something else, A topic that I 44 00:02:18,920 --> 00:02:22,480 will not mention now so that we can reveal it in the future. 45 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:27,840 You shared with me a Facebook post. 46 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:31,880 About yes. About teaching it, the subject 47 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,120 came up. I'm pulling it up right now. 48 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:40,880 It was on board game UK trading and Chat, which is Facebook, the 49 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:42,360 UK team. Yep. 50 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:50,040 And someone someone posted 4 bullet points describing the 51 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,040 teaching experience, I suppose, right? 52 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,520 It's like so. And now I'm quoting. 53 00:02:56,360 --> 00:03:00,200 Here's how people usually seem to teach board games #1. 54 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:07,720 Someone spends 5 to 30 agonizing minutes explaining how a game 55 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,640 works. I'm sure all of our listeners 56 00:03:10,640 --> 00:03:16,360 can identify with that one #2. No one at the table understands 57 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:20,280 anything. You just explained #3, the game 58 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:25,000 starts and #4, and I think this is what was the impetus for the 59 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,080 conversation. As each game mechanic arises, 60 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,320 people start asking, hold on, how does this work? 61 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:36,880 You can skip back to step three. And that was kind of the, that 62 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,640 was the post on Facebook that was like, let's, well, let's 63 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,880 talk about teaching. Let's talk about how people 64 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:45,120 teach. How does Gareth teach? 65 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:47,840 How does Katie and I teach? How do we like to be taught 66 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,240 games? And just in general, what people 67 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:54,080 think about if you're going to be taught a game, what is your 68 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:58,360 go to teaching method right? Yeah, and I'm going to start 69 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,480 with last night. So we had my father and 70 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:05,960 mother-in-law over yesterday who aren't gamers, but they wanted 71 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:07,840 to play games. And then you're going man, 72 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:11,480 right? OK, non gamers, look at my games 73 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,960 collection and go not really designed for family games and 74 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,519 non gamers. And I'm racking my brains 75 00:04:17,519 --> 00:04:21,160 thinking, OK, I've got to start with something relatively simple 76 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,200 and I I just start crossing things and I think, oh, that's 77 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:28,520 that's got a few complicated mechanics, but we end up playing 78 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:32,320 four games. 04 games look at you I. 79 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,640 Know and we started with Tiger and Dragon then Carcass Zone 80 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:40,880 then Cascadia and then stomp the plank which mostly a tile 81 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:49,680 placement of some regard whether it's the the bike domino tiles 82 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:52,800 in Tiger and Dragon. But the whole way through was 83 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,240 you've got to think about the audience and I think that's the 84 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:59,560 same whatever game I have. What experience has that gaming 85 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:03,000 group got or person has got? What have they played before? 86 00:05:03,280 --> 00:05:05,720 What might help me explain the rules? 87 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:07,640 Because it might be, Oh yeah, I remember this in Terraforming 88 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:09,840 Mars. Well, here's my iconography that 89 00:05:09,840 --> 00:05:12,160 is similar to to that kind of game. 90 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:15,200 So I usually try to gauge my game group. 91 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,600 There's no point bringing the Lacerda out if all we've ever 92 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:23,560 played is no wingspan or something, you know, medium 93 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:24,440 weight. Yeah. 94 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,200 So last night was a good test. So when I was teaching games 95 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:31,000 last night, I was thinking about this episode and the whole way 96 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,720 through, thinking about the rule book, thinking about how you 97 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,120 explain and most of those games. I don't need the rule book, for 98 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,040 I can teach them without the rule book because they're 99 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:42,640 relatively simple. But it is, it is the language. 100 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:46,120 And I know we're going to do an episode on board game slang, 101 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:51,440 maybe that's what you call it. But I think my first bit without 102 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:55,440 teaching any ball game is know the audience and know their 103 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:56,960 experience. Right. 104 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,400 Maybe even the theme. A little bit of theme, I know. 105 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:05,040 Like there's no point teaching Carrie many space games unless. 106 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,440 Sure. I can oversell it on the theme 107 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:09,600 or the objectives. How about how about you and 108 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,200 Katie? Similar or different? 109 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:16,400 I mean, I I think you're right, you know, know your audience. 110 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,640 That's absolutely. I can't, I can't disagree with 111 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,160 anything you just said, although some people might want me to 112 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,080 disagree with you. I can't. 113 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:28,760 I I think it's valid. So we were talking about this 114 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:30,360 episode. So we're thinking about it this 115 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:34,080 morning. Next week, a week from today. 116 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:38,800 The recording, not the airing, of this episode, is my birthday, 117 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:44,160 and as a result, Katie got me a game from Titan. 118 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,360 I got Moonrakers. I showed you a picture of it. 119 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:49,280 Yeah. Yeah, it's it's and it's the 120 00:06:49,280 --> 00:06:50,880 Titan edition. So it's like they're 121 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,680 Kickstarter. It's the it's like Kickstarter 122 00:06:53,680 --> 00:07:00,320 exclusive with all the metal coins and the full 3 dimensional 123 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:04,320 spaceships and the insert and the trays and everything. 124 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:06,920 It's beautiful. So we're learning to play the 125 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:10,680 game this morning, to play it and what did we do? 126 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:14,160 What's common with a lot of people right is rather than read 127 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:19,320 a rule book, watch a video right, what we actually did was 128 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,560 we watched Becca Scott from Geek and Sundry. 129 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,320 She had like a little 18 minute kind of quick overview. 130 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:32,040 The reason we chose that versus like the official Ivy Studios 131 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,320 video, that which was longer and things of that nature is we were 132 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:39,720 going to set up the insert right 'cause it was really difficult 133 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,040 like where do things go, you know, they have their own place, 134 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:46,320 but after watching her video. So that is a way of teaching a 135 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:50,520 game is watching a video. But she taught us the components 136 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:54,440 and a a high level how the game plays and we were ready to go. 137 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,560 So then we open up the box, we put everything we opened all the 138 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:02,480 cards and everything, the stickers for the labels on the 139 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:04,400 inserts. It's a beautiful insert that the 140 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:08,360 game comes with and then put everything in its place and we 141 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:12,320 played the base game and had an A great experience, right? 142 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:17,320 But that's because the two of us are together, so we're able to 143 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:21,000 do that, right? That's not how we would teach a 144 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:27,120 game to either a group of non gamers or our gaming group. 145 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,320 If we're introducing a new game, or if we're taking a game to a 146 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:34,000 convention where there's where you'll be real soon, UK Games 147 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,240 Expo, you might you might teach a group of gamers a game. 148 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:41,600 This is not how we would do it, but it's how we chose to do it 149 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,600 for this one experience. And I knew that we were going to 150 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,240 eventually talk about all the different because that's the 151 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:49,640 whole thing is all right. So you don't like a rule book? 152 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,480 You go to a video. Well, who do you go to, right? 153 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,000 Yeah, and I got this. Yeah, I mean I've I've just 154 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:00,080 learnt an age contrived which arrived this week. 155 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,280 Yeah, Rubik's pretty good. Claire 8's pretty good. 156 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:08,920 OK, but it is it is got some not medium weight moving parts and I 157 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,800 wasn't sure. So they had a video on their 158 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,680 website themselves which was pretty good, very concise. 159 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:20,360 But there are certain accounts on YouTube that I will not just 160 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,640 not watch who other people love, but I just don't like the style 161 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:29,320 and the way that it's presented. So back in Scott, I'll I will 162 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:34,320 often watch. So I think it is, and some rule 163 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:38,680 books are an absolute disaster, and sometimes that ends up being 164 00:09:38,680 --> 00:09:42,320 on the shelf of opportunity or shrink. 165 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,800 Board game backlog. Board game backlog because the 166 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,240 rule book is just is so bad that it's just not worth the effort 167 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:51,520 of trying to learn it. And often some games haven't 168 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:55,680 even got a video that works either, but usually I prefer the 169 00:09:55,680 --> 00:09:58,240 rule book. Maybe that's because I'm I just 170 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,640 like the detail, but if it's a bit of a struggle or I'm not 171 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,680 sure, I'll I'll always go and watch a video just in case, like 172 00:10:04,680 --> 00:10:06,120 I did this evening. Yep. 173 00:10:06,680 --> 00:10:09,600 On your game. One of the things that sets, and 174 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:13,000 this is not exclusive to Becca Scott and Geek and Sundry, but 175 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,200 that sets her apart from others is it's all about the technology 176 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:19,880 you have, right? So she's typically standing up 177 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:23,760 at the table, talking to the camera, addressing the viewer, 178 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:29,480 and while she's describing a card, she has the technology to 179 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,920 project the image of the card on the screen. 180 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,320 And then when she talks about the components, it'll highlight 181 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,520 the components of the card as she's talking, right? 182 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:46,400 So whenever we're in person teaching, Katie likes to read 183 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:48,880 the rule book. She's very detail oriented. 184 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,000 Now, one of the things that one of the reasons why she and I 185 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:54,640 work so well together is that I'm a very big picture guy 186 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:56,680 theme. Let's get it together. 187 00:10:56,680 --> 00:10:58,120 Let's get the right people at the table. 188 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:00,440 Let's do this. Let's sell the dream, yes. 189 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:02,400 And and she's. Reality and. 190 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:04,040 She makes it a it. It's true. 191 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,840 It's so true. So she has to read the rule 192 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:11,200 book, and she likes to do that. Now you come to our house, we're 193 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,440 going to teach a game. Katie's going to teach it to you 194 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:17,800 because she's absorbed the rule books when she's talking about, 195 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:19,240 oh, you're going to get a contract card. 196 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,280 I will grab a contract card out-of-the-box and place it in 197 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,960 front of you because we're technology deprived. 198 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:28,480 And I will point with. Your finger. 199 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,520 I will point to whatever she's talking about, right? 200 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,480 So we work really well together in that regard. 201 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:38,760 Or maybe we don't. You'd have to have her on and 202 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:44,440 see what she thinks. But yeah, so we like to do that. 203 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,040 And I would do that with you. If you were teaching a game and 204 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,120 I was with you, I would immediately, I would pull 205 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,960 out-of-the-box and point and whatnot, because some people are 206 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:58,120 visual learners, some are auditory, some are detail. 207 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:00,000 They. Yeah. 208 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,880 So yeah, I mean, teaching is just as hard as learning a game. 209 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:10,640 Yeah, I think technique would be read the rule book, set the game 210 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,760 up, read the rule book by setting up the game on the 211 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:15,240 table. I've usually got the basic 212 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:21,440 foundations of the components right, and I usually it's 213 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:22,520 assumed the rule book is a good rule book. 214 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:25,520 Kind of. I've nailed through the the 215 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:29,760 learning of it. I usually play 2 or maybe 3 216 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:35,880 rounds to go through the the key actions and see whether I can 217 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,720 explain it right. And then once that's done, I'll 218 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,560 reset it and hopefully somebody wants to play it with me. 219 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:45,960 Or as sometimes happens, I make all that effort and then that 220 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,440 one's available. I pack it back in a box and if 221 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:53,360 it stays in the shelf another six months, it was all for 222 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:54,560 waste. But I had a good time learning 223 00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:57,960 the game on my own. So I think, yeah, so we've got 224 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,320 the right group, the right game for that group. 225 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:06,800 And then before teaching that game, ideally I have, I've been 226 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,240 through that rule book and set up and rounds. 227 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:14,640 I think that the worst thing, and Carrie doesn't like this, is 228 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:18,960 if I read from the rule book or if some games I've played and I 229 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,160 have to, I think I remember the rules. 230 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:24,520 And so I set it up and then I guess I've referenced the rule 231 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:28,280 book just to remind myself that I guess the rule book is there 232 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:30,720 as a reference. It's not supposed to be a 233 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:31,960 script. Right. 234 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:36,480 So I do find myself sometimes I read reading it out loud and I'm 235 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,080 like, man, that's that's pretty terrible. 236 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:42,240 And of course if I ever do get stuck, it should be quicker 237 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:45,040 sometimes to just Google and get yourself on board Game Geek. 238 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,160 Because other people have asked if I'm asking the question I 239 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,640 expect another person is asked the question and even ask the 240 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,360 ball Game Geek. It's given the concise. 241 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,880 So, so Katie and I were talking about, all right, So what would 242 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:00,880 we say to the person who posted on Facebook? 243 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:02,520 It's like, well, here's the reality, right? 244 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,600 OK, step one, somebody has to know the rules. 245 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:11,320 If you're going to play a game, then #2 you you start off by 246 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,240 explaining the wind conditions, OK? 247 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:16,040 Yeah, your objectives. Yeah. 248 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:20,080 And then and then #3, you'll explain the mechanics of the 249 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:26,680 game, #4 the iconography, which you know if you have a really 250 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,440 good player, a this is, this is helpful. 251 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:36,800 And then five is the explanation of the mechanics, as it were. 252 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,440 And then here's the question. Katie and I will often do this. 253 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:41,880 Do you do a dry run? You know you're going to teach a 254 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,160 game at UK games Expo. Are you going to play it or you 255 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:47,640 just going to read the rules, absorb it and go? 256 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:50,760 Do you try to? Do you try to play it at home 257 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:52,840 beforehand? If anything, if I've got to 258 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,400 teach anything or somebody wants to teach, the worst thing is 259 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,400 saying I can play it and then turning up and having to read 260 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:00,640 the read the rule book with them. 261 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,240 So even if I if I haven't played it for a while, I get the rule. 262 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,640 I will get the rule book out and refresh, which people, people 263 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,040 won't know. But I'll always refresh because, 264 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:15,800 yeah, I mean, sometimes I sit at UKGE and I if I do buy new 265 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:20,400 games, it's quite rare that I'll get them to the table. 266 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,120 Because the last thing I want to do is sit with a group of four 267 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,240 other players or three other players and learn the rules. 268 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,360 And I see people get some beasts of games out and they're all 269 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,280 sitting there, all new players to the game thinking, man, 270 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,480 that's that's a lot of time investment but have one to 271 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:40,560 themselves. But I will, yeah, I'll generally 272 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:44,520 try to have learnt the rules. Or at least again watch the 273 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:46,600 video of something that someone's saying, can you, can 274 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:51,000 you teach me? See, I think I've got same as 275 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:52,600 you. I've got set up the objectives, 276 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:57,320 the actions, kind of the phasing, any player unique 277 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,600 stuff, the hardest games to teach to about players unique is 278 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,680 is asymmetric games. But everyone is different. 279 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,960 Yeah, that one's, that one's always a bit more complex. 280 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,400 Yeah, you're like, OK, I've got to teach the game mechanics and 281 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:13,240 you're all doing different stuff. 282 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,160 So if you just want to go and read your phone for a minute and 283 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:19,640 come back to me. Speaking of, let me ask you this 284 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:21,600 question. So what do you do with we see 285 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,240 this all the time. You get a group together, you're 286 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:25,920 going to teach a game. So you're you're looking through 287 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,880 the rule book or you're explaining the game, you're 288 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:30,520 ready to explain it to everybody. 289 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:35,840 And people are on their phones, and gamers do this right across 290 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,400 the board, not singling any one individual out by any means. 291 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:41,440 And they're not. They're not listening to you. 292 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:47,600 Or, as I found, people are watching videos as I teach. 293 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:51,880 She knows who she is. She's listening. 294 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:56,640 Because they learn in a certain style. 295 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,400 So they're also we're all trying to learn the game as we go 296 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:05,280 sometimes. Yeah, I if I'm teaching it 297 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,560 one-on-one let's say Carrie and Carrie is can't distracted by 298 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,640 Instagram or something. It's I find it exhausting 299 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:17,280 because I've just spent however long trying to teach the rules 300 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,160 and then and then someone goes, well what was this? 301 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,400 Well, I just said that 30 seconds ago. 302 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:29,320 Yeah so teaching is is pretty intense now. 303 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,960 I joke about this, but I I do think it happens a lot. 304 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:37,440 Generally if I teach, I lose. And that's not because I'm 305 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,880 saying I'm, I'm a bad player. But if I have to teach, I'm 306 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,520 generally making sure that everyone on the table is having 307 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:45,440 a good time. So I'm. 308 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:48,040 I'm watching everyone's moves, yes. 309 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,920 And when I get to V, I'm like, OK, you haven't done, I don't 310 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:52,040 know. I'm just going to do this. 311 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:54,200 Then I'm still checking the rules. 312 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:55,760 I'm checking the rule book to make sure we have it. 313 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:57,680 Particularly, it's a new game that we're playing through for 314 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,600 the first time. I find it's more, I'm more 315 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,760 focused on making sure the game is played well and not. 316 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,360 I'm sure there's a rule GAT it doesn't matter so much but that 317 00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:13,680 everyone's had a good time. But generally first game I lose 318 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:19,240 very very common. So let's say you Age of 319 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,720 Contrived is a good example because that's a new a new 320 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,120 acquisition for you. Let's say you're going to get 321 00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:27,840 your Southampton group over to the house to play. 322 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,240 Yeah. Do you? 323 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:35,040 Would you? And if you do, how often do you 324 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:40,160 recommend to George and Diz and the whole group to watch a video 325 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:41,920 before they show up at the house? 326 00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:43,600 A lot. Yeah. 327 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:47,400 Particularly if it's a if it's a complex game and the video is 328 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,840 good enough. Yeah, I think we, we all say 329 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,920 please watch this video. Or sometimes like if it's like 330 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,720 Twilight Apyrium because you play it once a year, right? 331 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:01,160 It's usually right, guys watch the normal video and everyone 332 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:05,320 skips through it. But yeah, in most of my gaming 333 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,480 groups, if we've got a new gaming table, I will try to get 334 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:10,080 everyone to watch it. Because it also means if we 335 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,040 didn't, we do the teach, somebody goes, I don't know, 336 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:16,920 that's that bit and we usually pick up somebody's concentrated 337 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,640 enough to pick up the raw gaps as we go. 338 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,440 No, I think that's. I think that's a good 339 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,160 recommendation. If it's a good video, everyone 340 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:26,800 should try watch it before coming over. 341 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:32,120 That does help. So amongst the all the videos 342 00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:36,480 out there to teach a game, who's your favorite? 343 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,160 Do you have a favorite? We talked about Becca, Spot, 344 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:40,800 Scott, of course, but do you have a favorite? 345 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,160 I'm just going to go, it's the same. 346 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:49,440 I think it's the same guy who did the video for Asia. 347 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:55,200 Contrived has also done the recent feudal but you've put me 348 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,160 on the spot so I'm self searching for it. 349 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:00,320 Well, I didn't mean to. I figured if he was, if he or 350 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,160 she were your favorite, you'd like Oh yeah. 351 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:04,240 I can't. I don't do names. 352 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:06,400 I don't. I can't remember the names of 353 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:12,000 actors or I think I'll turn my volume down before I press play 354 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:13,320 because nobody wants to hear this on. 355 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,040 I think this is the video. Yeah. 356 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,160 So the one, the one person who is definitely piquing my 357 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:24,800 interests and is on Fudum if you fudum's on Kickstarter coming up 358 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:31,360 just a little dropper plug, then is Knights Around a Table. 359 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:37,960 Nights around the table. So, Ryan Creighton. 360 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,960 Ryan Creighton. His teachers are excellent. 361 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,920 OK. Like Top Notch, all the bits of 362 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:50,760 visual you just talked about. Yep, I think he did Feld. 363 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,960 That's where I'd I'd not heard him about him before, but he did 364 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,360 the Feld video. He's on a feuding video, and 365 00:20:58,360 --> 00:21:00,640 he's also on a video for an age contrived. 366 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:05,240 It's very enjoyable. Knights around a table. 367 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,760 Go check it out. I mean, I'll, I mean I'll, I'll 368 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:13,920 watch a Rodney video. I mean, Rodney is probably the 369 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:17,800 most trusting, trustworthy name in the business, I think when it 370 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:19,600 comes to teaching and watch. A Rodney Video. 371 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,000 I mean, that's kind of Katie and I, if we're not going to read 372 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:26,440 the rule book, which of course we're going to, she's going to, 373 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,400 because I can't do it. I mean, I will if I've got to. 374 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,560 Does Rodney have a video? Yeah, and normally because he's 375 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,160 linked to Board Game Geek, they're bumped at the top. 376 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,920 They're even easier. Finds another one for heavier 377 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:43,000 games. I think it's game in a nutshell. 378 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:45,880 Came in a nutshell. Yeah, I know them. 379 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:51,160 Can't remember what nationality, but usually those things. 380 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,200 I think I've watched one recently for horses, horseless 381 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,320 carriage, the spotter games. Yep. 382 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:03,360 So quite good at teaching them more complex Paul Grogan gaming 383 00:22:03,360 --> 00:22:05,200 rules. OK. 384 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:10,080 Often works with the Serda. Yeah, the heavier games, they're 385 00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:14,440 probably ones that I would would jump out at me. 386 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,640 There's always others, but yeah, Rodney, if you want to straight, 387 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:19,240 straight, you know what you're going to get. 388 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:24,440 Yeah, absolutely. So how about what are? 389 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,440 Here's the next question. It's like you're being 390 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:32,320 interviewed today. What are or have been some 391 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:37,240 challenging, challenging situations, challenging 392 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:41,680 behaviours that you've had to experience while trying to teach 393 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:46,000 a game? And how, yeah, and how have you 394 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,040 handled it? How did you over? 395 00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:52,120 How did you overcome that situation? 396 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,240 I can't actually think of any, I guess. 397 00:22:57,880 --> 00:22:59,680 I guess there's been times where people challenge me on the 398 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:01,280 rules. Yeah. 399 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:05,040 And. And I think I've said one rule. 400 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:07,120 I've read it out and gone. Yeah, that's right. 401 00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:08,800 And then I've read it for 10 minutes later and gone. 402 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:10,480 No, no, no, I've definitely got it wrong. 403 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:19,920 So you get, you get the odd person who sort of gets 404 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,800 frustrated. But it's just a game, right? 405 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,320 And sure, sometimes if we get the rule halfway through, we'll 406 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:31,720 decide whether we'll reset or just go is what it is, maybe 407 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:35,720 finish the rounds with the rule that we had in place and then we 408 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,040 fix it so everyone's had the equal opportunity. 409 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,080 Yeah, so we might, we might do that. 410 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:45,120 I mean, I've had bad experiences being taught where now I've had 411 00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:48,400 to get my phone out and go. There's a there's a classic game 412 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,400 that our gaming group talks about where one of my friends 413 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,000 who may or may not be listening to the show. 414 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,360 Sure is. Would admit he's not the 415 00:23:58,360 --> 00:24:02,880 greatest teacher of ball games, but had a habit of teaching us 416 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,800 games. Taught me Carcassonne so badly 417 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,920 that I removed it from existence in my gaming collection. 418 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,080 In fact, we're saying. This last night. 419 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,520 And then we played it and I was like, oh, this isn't the game 420 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,160 experience I remember. And then there's another game 421 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,120 when we we it was a new game, Kickstarter. 422 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:26,680 We'd been taught the game. I was like, I guess as a gamer 423 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:31,760 you do roughly know how games are going to play based on the 424 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:33,840 mechanics. And you know, I'm like this. 425 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:36,520 There's something not right in this game. 426 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,240 It doesn't seem to work either. It's a terrible, terrible game 427 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,400 or missing something. And I just said that passing a 428 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,640 rule book. And I said I was like, OK, OK, I 429 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,480 don't know what game we're playing, but the game is not 430 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:52,200 like the game in his rule book. It's just completely bad teach. 431 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,440 Which then I read the rule book and I then you know I guess 432 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,480 salvage a game into be better it was. 433 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,520 But that game, scarred bit like Carcass saying was so bad. 434 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:06,360 A bad teacher can really give a bad impression on the game. 435 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,600 Absolutely. Oh, yes, there are. 436 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:11,800 There are. At least. 437 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,400 What are their two games? There's two games that I'll 438 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,160 just. I will never play. 439 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:19,760 Like I refuse to play these these two games. 440 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:25,440 I will never play them. And I the The teach was so 441 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:30,360 terrible, I I can't if they hit the table. 442 00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:34,080 I won't play Tiny Towns. Tiny towns. 443 00:25:34,120 --> 00:25:35,760 It's like Caucasus, right? How can you get that wrong? 444 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:40,360 Yeah, it was a it was a horrible, horrible teach, 445 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,560 horrible teach. And I'm like, you know, I look 446 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,000 at that game and I'm like, I want to play that. 447 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,240 No, I don't. But the one game that I 448 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:53,360 absolutely will never play. Like I will walk out of the 449 00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:58,360 house if I see it on your board. If I see it on your shelf, I 450 00:25:58,360 --> 00:26:00,840 want to set it on fire. The game, not your shelf. 451 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,760 And that's Food Chain Magnate. Why? 452 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,520 I hate that game so much. That game P That game though, 453 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:13,200 has got it has. The game itself is unforgiving, 454 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,080 so if you're a new teach. And you haven't told. 455 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,680 People about the advantage of the first couple of rounds. 456 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,520 And so. Again, that's that's a good 457 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,440 game. If you explain to people that 458 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,320 the game is unforgiving, it's punishing, punishing. 459 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:35,560 You know, but OK, so OK now that was that is not saying, hey, 460 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,760 this game is punishing or this game is unforgiving. 461 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,520 That's not a good teach. No, no. 462 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:43,560 You have to. You have. 463 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,840 To And there lies and there lies the rub, you know. 464 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,400 I realized it was taught poorly. I've got I have another friend 465 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:53,000 of mine who's like, no, you should give it another chance 466 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,320 because it was taught poorly. But you you do need. 467 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,960 I think one of the things there is, is do you? 468 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,080 It's hard because my emotions just run deep for that game and 469 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,720 I'm like, no. That game, that game, sometimes 470 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,440 you play a game and it's it is a learning game and we still score 471 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,520 it, but I'll put a note in the scoring app that it was a 472 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,960 teaching game. There are some games like Fuji 473 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:22,240 Magnet, but I would teach and play two or three rounds and 474 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,680 then say let's restart the game. So you've got a Leaf. 475 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:27,680 People have got to. Have it? 476 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:29,600 Yep. That's not a bad idea. 477 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,200 I could. Now that's a game. 478 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,760 That got that unforgiving just so people have got the idea. 479 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,960 Because if because it's within. Is it three turns? 480 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:38,320 I can't quite remember this one, but. 481 00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:39,800 It is. Really quick. 482 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,800 If you haven't prepared to grab those cards when everyone else 483 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,480 grabs the cards, Yep. Yeah, you you're on the back 484 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:47,440 foot. I. 485 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,960 Mean, I'm still not sold, but yeah, I hear you. 486 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:51,600 I hear you. Yeah. 487 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,840 You can see and hear. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 488 00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:03,320 So here's one What do you do when you encounter a a gamer or 489 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,720 a player at the table who just doesn't? 490 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:07,520 Who's like, can we just play the game? 491 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:11,800 As in, they want to, they want to get on with it. 492 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,840 Yes. Well, I think, I think there are 493 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:20,200 some teaches where it's just better not to do the teach. 494 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,520 So like like you say, you might do the theme and you might set 495 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,640 out the yeah, I think theme's important and the object is 496 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:33,720 roughly what you do. And then depending on maybe how 497 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,920 the round mechanic is, I wouldn't teach. 498 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,520 Sometimes I don't even tell people how to score until round 499 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:45,080 two or three, so I'll wait for the scoring so that we've all 500 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,960 got ahead around the mechanics and then bring the scoring in. 501 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,800 It's a really fine balance of you don't want to over 502 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:56,760 complicate the teach and teach them everything. 503 00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,160 But I think you have to say that let me teach you the basic moves 504 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,080 and then we'll crack on and I'll teach other mechanics. 505 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,600 The age of contrived. The rule book actually has a 506 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:11,840 whole page on teaching. So it has these are the things 507 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,680 that you should explain. Some groups like to get straight 508 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:16,080 into it. So if you're going to do that 509 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,160 then teach these three things and then it's got basically when 510 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:20,800 you get to this point teach this. 511 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,720 This is actually it's actually quite it's a really really good 512 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:25,920 rule book and a good player rate. 513 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:28,760 OK. But I've not seen many rule 514 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:33,520 books that do that in terms of actually out laying outlying how 515 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,880 maybe to structure the teach depending on the gaming. 516 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,160 Interesting. Interesting. 517 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,280 Yeah, have a look. Yeah, it also has the most 518 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,040 technical player boards I've ever seen and it took me an hour 519 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:47,600 and a half to build them out of metal. 520 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,560 And they are the they are the most unnecessary metal player 521 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,320 boards. I mean, they're so funky. 522 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,280 But so. You do not need them, but that's 523 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,800 another episode. So our our friend Brandy, 524 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,040 boarding school with Brandy. She picked up a copy and she did 525 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,720 a video where she was putting it together and it's like it fits 526 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,520 back in the Did it fit back in the box? 527 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:08,560 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. 528 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:10,520 It's really good into really good. 529 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,640 I mean the components are another at the level it's it's 530 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,240 up downstairs, which I'm not sure I'm going to get a teaching 531 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:24,120 tonight, but what what's your have you got a favorite game to 532 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,360 teach or a favorite type of game to teach? 533 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:39,360 Like I I mean, the one game that I can teach blindfolded now is 534 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,560 obsession. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 535 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,360 Just because we've gotten that right. 536 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:49,040 Like if I have to look at the rule book, I've done something 537 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:53,560 horribly wrong, you know? I got to when we played it at 538 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,600 Cajun Con. I grabbed the rule book because 539 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,240 I find one of my favorite things in that rule book is the pie 540 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,920 chart with the stats of how you get victory points. 541 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,240 Sure. So I grabs like my favorite bits 542 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,280 is that you're 23% of the points come from whatever. 543 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:11,840 Yeah. But I think that really that 544 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,960 really helps explain people. Where do you focus your energy? 545 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:17,720 That's that is a good point, I mean. 546 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:19,760 It's it's it's one of the bits. I really think it really helps 547 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:21,920 explain obsession. Sure. 548 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,400 Now managed to bring onto the episode, so good work PJ. 549 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,040 Hey, thanks. In terms of the teacher, because 550 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,960 people say that rule book is one of the worst he gets, it's loads 551 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:31,880 of grief. Because it's. 552 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:36,560 I mean, it's he's got a lot of information packed into that 553 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,400 rule book. I mean it's it's. 554 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,240 Not I find it OK, but other people say it's terrible and I'm 555 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,080 like, actually I. Mean. 556 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:44,560 It's not the quest, but it's not. 557 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:45,840 Depends whether you've got maybe a lot. 558 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,200 It's I find it quite logical and I think in a very logical way. 559 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,880 So it is it is very it is very logical and sometimes things are 560 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,480 scattered in the in that the what's it called? 561 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,000 The glossary or sort of the glossary. 562 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:00,920 Yeah. The glossary it's not the 563 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:02,160 second. There's a second book, isn't 564 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:07,520 there with. It's a glossary or a iconography 565 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,560 and things of that nature. So my favorite thing to do is 566 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,800 let Katie read the rule book. I usually go watch a video and 567 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,720 then the way I like to teach, I like, I like Katie to do all the 568 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:22,640 the the the technical teaching. And I like to be her little, you 569 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,320 know, her mouse where I'm pointing to the thing, you know. 570 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,800 We need a little torch that when you point, you shine a little 571 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,160 spotlight. On I do need a laser pointer or 572 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,080 something. Yes, I do need. 573 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,920 We do need one of those because I think we teach well together. 574 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,840 I don't know if she thinks that because sometimes I think that 575 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,440 she thinks I'm being silly when I'm actually trying to help, 576 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:49,280 which is, which is fair. But yeah, what? 577 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,480 So what about you? Do you have a favorite game that 578 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,840 you like to teach? It's 3 so games that jump out, 579 00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:00,000 games we've played a lot, so like through Lockdown, even 580 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:05,880 online I took Viticulture with Tuscany to tons of players just 581 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:07,480 because AI know it back the back of my hand. 582 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,760 And B, it's a really nice intro into worker placement as long as 583 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:13,960 as long as I still believe you've got to play the Tuscany 584 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:19,360 or the the essential bits. Another game I always enjoy 585 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:21,160 teaching is like Raiders of the North Sea. 586 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:27,200 So just medium weight games that you can just sit people down and 587 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,280 get them playing. Yeah, what I do enjoy is 588 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,200 teaching people games and not actually playing. 589 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:38,520 So we so just getting people set up and then go right, OK, you 590 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,920 guys are good and then go and teach another group of players 591 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,160 another game. So I'm I find. 592 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,120 That I find that massively rewarding. 593 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,920 Yep, I'm going to tell you. I'm going to tell you a story 594 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:50,600 about a friend of mine here in Springfield. 595 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,760 He he's going to dread this because he hates it because he's 596 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:56,800 like, every once in a while he's like, is he talking about me? 597 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:58,480 No. And I'm usually, but I'm usually 598 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:02,320 not, but I am right now. So I have a friend of mine who 599 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,760 we had a group played Captain Sonar, right. 600 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,360 And so that's that's eight players, right? 601 00:34:09,159 --> 00:34:11,440 Which is asymmetric. As well, it is asymmetric 602 00:34:11,639 --> 00:34:13,719 because in in the roles you play. 603 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:18,639 So he taught eight people how to play the game and taught them 604 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,080 each, their role, their individual roles and how it 605 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:25,080 interacts. And then he didn't play and he 606 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,000 was just thrilled. He was over the roof. 607 00:34:28,679 --> 00:34:30,600 Just, yeah. And I get that. 608 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:35,960 I do get that feeling. I like I when I say I get it, I 609 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,679 mean, I understand it. I am not that way with board 610 00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:42,760 games, but I am that way with other things, right? 611 00:34:43,679 --> 00:34:46,480 So yeah, I totally get that you want to teach. 612 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:53,000 And yeah, so, so yeah, I totally understand what you're saying. 613 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:54,719 I get that. I totally get it. 614 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,120 I prefer not to teach. I like to help Katie. 615 00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:00,840 I don't like to. I don't like to teach board 616 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:02,320 games. I don't know. 617 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,600 I feel like there's too much on the line, right? 618 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:05,880 I don't know. Oh, yeah. 619 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,280 Yeah. So I don't quite like that 620 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,880 little bit of pressure. I guess it's all part of, I 621 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:13,640 guess because we host quite a bit. 622 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:18,000 Sure, it's part of part of being the host. 623 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:22,960 It's when people come over, they want to play games and they 624 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,800 suggest games that I really like, and then I'm like, oh, I 625 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,680 can't remember the rules. Oh man, that means I'm going to 626 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:32,280 have to read the rule book. Right. 627 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,600 Oh. And then I kind of go it's a bit 628 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,920 of a complex one and then we take it down the track. 629 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,680 So, so we now try to make sure that if we're going to select 630 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,680 games that we these games that either we hit the table people 631 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,360 know to play or somebody in the group knows to play, right? 632 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,440 We I'm trying to think so. Like Age of Atlantis was a game 633 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,040 we picked up. I had picked it up in Nashville 634 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,320 and I really wanted to play it with our gaming group. 635 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,000 Now Katie and I played it at two players to see how it felt. 636 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,200 And then we had our friends come over. 637 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,400 I said, hey guys, watch this video, right? 638 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:15,880 So sometimes, especially with a heavier game, right, like a 639 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,080 Lacerta or something that that that that heavyweight. 640 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,600 If I've got some friends coming over, I want you to watch a 641 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,640 video so that it will alleviate the pressure of teaching, so we 642 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:32,320 can dive into the game, right. So I mean, I do recommend using 643 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:38,880 videos as a supplement. You know, not that we're not 644 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,120 going to teach you the game, but if you can come in with some 645 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:47,560 context, because context is key. It's a good context is key. 646 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:49,720 Context is key. What? 647 00:36:49,720 --> 00:36:53,600 Because how about Ball Game Geek player aids. 648 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,280 So there's certain games, which I think there's a lot of, 649 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,000 there's a lot of detail. The player aid, it might even be 650 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,600 OK, but you're like, man, I could do a turn order. 651 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:05,560 There's some games that don't even come with eternal, like a 652 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:10,640 little, yeah, little crib sheet. So again, again, mini. 653 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:15,360 There's got flow charts. Yep, Hegemony is beautiful. 654 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,560 But the flow charts really work. Harrow County. 655 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:26,600 Somebody's made beautiful one page summaries for all the rules 656 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,360 for each family, which I printed out straight away just thought 657 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,480 man like it. It replaces a rule book and it 658 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,040 just brings it. It brings it all to a concise 659 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,040 one feature. So there's two games that come 660 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:43,280 to mind where there's no player. The player aid is built on the 661 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,920 map on the player mat. Yeah, OK. 662 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,680 So obsession. Obsession. 663 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,800 The turn order. To Dan's credit, the turn order 664 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:53,920 is printed on the House mat, right? 665 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:58,040 So if you have any questions about what do I do, the turn 666 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:02,440 order is there for your summary. The other one is heat pedal to 667 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:07,840 the metal. So the first two actions where 668 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:11,080 you take your cards, you set, you set what gear you're going 669 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,920 to be in and then you play that number of cards face down, 670 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,760 that's simultaneous. And then you take turns right in 671 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:22,440 pole position and it's like, OK, so you play your cards and you 672 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,160 move and then there's are you in last place? 673 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,760 Yes or no. Do a thing, cool down, right? 674 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,760 And you go through all the steps check your going around the turn 675 00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:37,120 which we discovered is that Craig's wife Becky can't take 676 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,640 turns and and I. Prayed for me. 677 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:42,160 I can't. I can't remember. 678 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,480 All I know is he taught us. He taught Katie and I heat while 679 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:49,360 we were at his house. We we have a copy of the base 680 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,440 game and the Heavy Rain expansion. 681 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,800 I had to play it four times to beat Katie because she's such a 682 00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,840 good racer. But that's a fun game, and I 683 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,400 like everything's on your mat. It's on the mat. 684 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,600 Yeah, it'll. When your player when your 685 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,520 player met is also your player aid. 686 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:11,760 That is amazing. Does. 687 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,520 That's an amazing supplemental teach design and I'd like to see 688 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:19,760 more board games implement that. The only game where I've made my 689 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:24,920 own player aid is Obsession. It's true, you sent me a copy. 690 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:26,120 It was really helpful. Did I? 691 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:27,840 I should. Have I should have published it 692 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:29,440 on Board Game Geek? It was just. 693 00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,000 It's just it's just the tokens you set up for player and the 694 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:37,680 number of the rooms and the pictures on it. 695 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:41,560 The. Heritage Oh. 696 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,560 My God, we. Both forgotten, but you know. 697 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:48,080 What I mean monuments. Monuments of Brainy Complete and 698 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:53,200 on the other side is the just the the different points you get 699 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,560 for whichever level you upgrade to. 700 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:59,840 Reputation, yeah. Reputation, yeah, I think. 701 00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:04,600 I think it'd be quite satisfied. Yeah, so. 702 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,600 I thought I'd follow up last week's episode of What? 703 00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,680 What does the AI suggest? Yes. 704 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:12,360 What does the AI suggest? So the. 705 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:16,480 AI suggested if I asked it a a question around structuring a 706 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:18,160 ball game. Teach it said do an 707 00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:19,720 introduction. I'm going to do the headings. 708 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,840 Understand your audience. Oh it's done well there. 709 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:29,200 Prepare so that's familiar self with the rules of components, 710 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,640 organising opponents neatly and ensure you have that's so you 711 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:34,360 get your little storage trays. It's done. 712 00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:39,400 Set the stage so theme objective mechanics which we covered. 713 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,040 Oh, this is step by step rules explanation. 714 00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:48,080 Breakdown the rules into chunks. Use clear and concise language, 715 00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,040 avoiding jargon and complex terminology. 716 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:51,760 Episode coming soon for that one. 717 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,840 Hands on learning practice round or demonstration to reinforce 718 00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:00,720 understanding guy players through their first few rounds. 719 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,240 Allow players to experiment and make mistakes. 720 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,960 I I definitely let that happen. Oh yeah, we didn't even talk 721 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:08,160 about that. That's you've got to. 722 00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:10,920 Yeah, you kind of let them do it. 723 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:15,560 But then I do try to point people we're playing, We're 724 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,320 playing Cascadia. Last night I had taught all of 725 00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:22,680 the cards to the scoring cards and I was doing my kind of kind 726 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,960 of doing my own thing. I looked up and was like, oh, 727 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,040 OK, no one's going to score any points on these two boards. 728 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:31,400 That is my mother and father-in-law. 729 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:36,160 They had, I think the birds were to be separate and all the birds 730 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:37,600 in a row. So they got the rules. 731 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:39,880 They got the rules right, but for the wrong animals. 732 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,120 For the wrong animals, yeah. So they have. 733 00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:47,320 This I just got the, I got the, I got the folded space colour 734 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:51,280 insert for Cascadia and I posted I posted a few pictures today on 735 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,240 Instagram. I'll have a look at that. 736 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:55,800 They're really nice. I love their colour line is 737 00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:57,840 great, but yeah, Cascading is a good game. 738 00:41:58,240 --> 00:42:01,520 Handle learning, then strategic tips, strategic tips and then 739 00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,520 reference materials. So. 740 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:07,200 Like player, like player. Aids and recommend online 741 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,280 resources or tutorials for furthering. 742 00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,000 And then the final Oh no nice. Where there's 11 tips, we're at 743 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,200 number #9. Engagement interaction. 744 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,160 OK, foster a positive and inclusive atmosphere. 745 00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:22,800 Yeah. Emphasise the importance of 746 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,760 sportsmanship and respectful gameplay. 747 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,600 There's there's a topic cheats at ball games. 748 00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:33,920 I've got a friend I know somebody you always got to 749 00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,960 watch. How did you get those 3 gold. 750 00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:40,560 Not part of my gaming group at the moment though so don't 751 00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:43,200 worry. Anyone listening then 752 00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:47,560 conclusion. It sounds a bit formal, but 753 00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,040 there that's. So yeah, I guess that's that's 754 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:53,280 quite an interesting summary of what we just covered. 755 00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:57,000 And that's going to be a new feature of our of our show I. 756 00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,800 Think it's really? We're going to end with what 757 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,960 does AI suggest? What's AI suggest this week and 758 00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:06,800 see where it goes? It wasn't so good at suggesting 759 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:08,360 a title this week. Wasn't. 760 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:10,040 It so we've we've stuck with our own. 761 00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:14,320 OK, well that was awesome. Thank you. 762 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:15,960 So this was good conversation. Thanks. 763 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,720 Yeah. So what's what's next week going 764 00:43:19,720 --> 00:43:22,600 to be? So next week which we normally 765 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,520 don't do this but I think we're going to piggyback off of this 766 00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:29,400 is we're going to talk about like gaming gamer's jargon. 767 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:35,400 The the the question is how do you talk to non gamers about our 768 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:39,520 hobby is kind of the that's some interesting. 769 00:43:39,720 --> 00:43:44,120 Games through to when you So we had a We had a Carrie went out 770 00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:48,560 with her friend on Friday night. Her friend came back to get a 771 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:52,480 lift home. They had a few drinks and she 772 00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,080 wandered into the games room and said. 773 00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:57,840 What is this? What is it? 774 00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,240 Yeah, what is this? And then I had to explain it, 775 00:44:00,240 --> 00:44:03,600 thinking how she she, she asked me, I'll save the questions for 776 00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:05,960 next week. But it did it. 777 00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:07,720 It's a bit like teaching ball games. 778 00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:11,040 You have to stop and think about your response, right? 779 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,960 Because you could really, yeah, you could disengage when 780 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:16,840 actually what you want them to do is come round and play games. 781 00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:19,920 So make sure everybody listening Yeah y'all tell us. 782 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,280 Tell us some of your favorite stories about how do you, how do 783 00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:24,200 you like to teach a game? How do you like to learn a game. 784 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:28,280 But also if you want to get on Instagram at Maple to Maple, 785 00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:33,000 send us Adm and give us some of your approaches. 786 00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:36,360 How do you talk to people about our hobby and or? 787 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,880 Or your favorite acronyms. Or your favorite acronyms, and 788 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:41,880 we'll share them on air. So OK. 789 00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,080 Yeah, right. Thanks, PJ. 790 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,480 Thanks everyone for listening. Thanks everyone for listening. 791 00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,800 Please subscribe and as always, we'd love to hear your thoughts 792 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:54,320 and ideas, so make sure to leave those in the comments. 793 00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:58,520 And don't forget, you can also chat with us both on Instagram 794 00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:00,160 at meeple to Meeple.