Hey guys and welcome to a very special.
It is episode 150. Can you believe we've been doing
this for 150 episodes? Isn't that crazy?
I still can't believe it myself. Also, this is the 7th in my
content creator community series, so thanks for sticking
with me on this journey guys. So here's my question.
If there's ever a board game being played, there's a good
chance that today's guest has streamed it, has played it and
has taught it, or has already posted about it.
That's the kind of connection that she builds through her
content. Ever an Omni gamer, a live play
host, and an all around community booster in the board
game world, she creates welcoming spaces through
streaming. She shares her love of every
kind of game, and somehow she still finds time to hype up
other content creators. So who better to help me
celebrate episode 150 and the 7th episode in this series?
I'm excited to have her on the show, so let's get into it with
Amanda Panda. Amanda, how are you?
I'm good. Thank you so much for inviting
me on to lucky number 7. Yeah, Lucky 7 and episode 150.
You, I know you hit the congratulations.
Thank you, thank you so much. It's it's been a wild ride 3 1/2
years on. We're on now.
We're on all the platforms. The only platform we're not on
is Twitch, but we're everywhere else now.
We're coming. It's a different monster like
which is a different beast. And I know a lot of podcasts
don't do Twitch because then you are breaking up the rhythm of
the interview with, you know, chatting with the chat and
stuff. And so they do like YouTube
afterwards, you know, the is it vlog cast?
I think someone told me is it going to be a vlog cast?
And I'm like a vlog cast. I guess that means video podcast
now. That's kind of interesting.
Yeah. Yeah, so it was interesting.
Last week I was talking with Iris at Crimson Board Games in
the Netherlands, and we were just reminiscing about the past
and talked about technology. And after 150 episodes, I'm
thinking back to those like first 30 episodes when it was I
had a condenser mic through Bluetooth on my iPhone.
It was audio only. We had we didn't even have video
to see each other. And so it was, it was Gareth and
I, and then we finally got a platform where we could at least
do video. We didn't record video, but we
could see each other. Man, that made all the
difference. Because if you go back to those
first 30 episodes, we talk over each other.
The rhythm is just all. It was a hot.
But you have to learn through that, right?
You have to grow through that, or else you'll never get to the
position you're at now. No one.
It starts with the perfect anything so right?
Yeah, right. Yeah, absolutely.
Keep trying, never give up. That's the general message that
I get from all the content creators is just go at it and
don't give up. Yeah.
So, so yeah, yeah, that's a that was a that was a stroll down
memory lane for a minute that I was not planning on doing here.
So, Amanda, let me ask you, what was the very first board game
that you ever played as a child? It's gonna like I played all the
I played Monopoly live. Yep, Yep, Mousetrap.
I remember getting the teenage mutant turtles one.
Crap. Yeah.
So that's like as a child
that's, you know, the mass market.
Right, I think. One of the first, yeah.
My first few hobby games would be Lords of Water Deep Pakanoko.
The very first board game I ever bought that's hobby is Caverna.
Caverna. Oh wow, that's that goes back
too, right? Yeah, that goes back.
And it was a big game in a heavy box.
Yeah. And I had to go to the, you
know, quote UN quote friendly local game store, which wasn't
still friendly for women. You know, I tottered in my heels
and my skirt, and they're all the guys stopped, turned around
and looked at me. And I'm like, OK, this is a
little weird, but yeah, it's gotten so much better from when
I started, You know, a lot more women, a lot more women without
significant others, you know, enjoying the hobby.
We've got more inclusive third spaces, you know, working cafes
and stuff. My favorite 1 the game house
unfortunate closed due to the pandemic but they were the most
like inclusive, warm, you know just best comforting space.
They had a great library that was a combination of the two
owners personal library and me and my coworker Ruby.
We would go from when they open every Saturday.
We pull random games off the shelf, learn them from the rule
book and then play them. And so, yeah, we were one of the
first few tables that were only women, which means we got like a
little bit featured and then we got some interviews because of
that. But then they really curated,
you know, clientele of like, families and good groups, and
everyone felt safe and comfortable there.
So I'm looking for another Gamehouse to really help
support. So you're in where?
Remind me you're in Southern California?
Yep, Southern California, OK. We have a lot of good places
though. It's just what I want to drive.
You do. I was.
I was just at the end of August. I was in Anaheim, CA.
Disneyland. Disneyland.
Yes. Yeah, it's not why we were
there. We were there for a work
conference. OK, We did spend a day at
Disneyland, but I did. I was able to meet up with some
fellow content creators who lived close enough, and we're
able to meet me. And where'd we go?
We went to a board game cafe called Maple Family.
Yes, Maple family and they had the they had the indoor tents,
right? Yeah, not in your own tents.
And the yeah, the it's like a was it campground, you know,
tables and something we didn't like was the chair.
So because they're like attached.
They were, some of them were, you're right.
We started off with a table, not in a tent because they were all
occupied. And then later on we were able
to move into one because the night was, you know, waning and
we were able to, you know, hang out and play games.
That was a really lovely place. Yeah.
There are three local game stores here in Springfield, IL,
but there are no board game cafes.
It's been my observation that in the United States, board game
cafes are really only found in large metropolitan areas.
Or near universities maybe? Right.
Well, the thing, the beauty of our game stores is they have
there's, there's game space, there's open gaming space.
They just don't charge for it. You go into the game store and
then you can you could buy a game and go play it if you
wanted. They do have a games library as
well. Yeah, guys have been listening
to me for years talk about Titan Games, if you can find them on
Instagram at Titan Games Springfield.
No, they are not a sponsor of this show.
They should be. Yeah, maybe one day, maybe one
day. So that's great.
So cavern up which? So you said Takanoko.
Lords of Water deep. Lords of Water Deep, It's a good
one too. And Caverna.
Do you remember which of those three were first?
Probably is going to be Takanoko because I love pandas and that's
my whole thing. Yeah.
Pandas. I think I remember watching Will
Wheaton play Takanoko on his show Tabletop.
Yeah. And I was like, yeah, but
probably Takanoko. But I have to say Lords of Water
Deep is the first game I blinged out like when Maple Source
started their kickstarters and stuff.
Like that's my first blinged out game.
I replaced all the cubes with little maples.
With the maples, I've, I, I keep going back and forth because
they won't fit in the insert that I've got because I, I
blinged out Waterdeep a little bit.
You know, what's interesting about Lords of Waterdeep is that
that game holds up really well. I know we played several times
every year it hits our table it, you know, whereas other games of
that age maybe don't hold up quite as well, like Lords of
Artes is still just a top notch solid worker placement.
And what I love about it is you don't have to know D&D for the
lure to play that game, but you're playing D and DI mean,
you know, right, Which is cool. So, so OK, if you can remember,
take me to that moment. You up to this point, you would
only ever played, you know, widely made mass mass produced
classics and you'd not played a modern game you play.
And so you have some friends or family and they put Takanoko on
the table and you probably love pandas already, right?
Yep. So what was that experience like
for you? Oh, it's always going to be me
because my family and friends are not the one.
I'm always the instigator of Fort James and asking people to
join me. My first thing was it was
beautiful. Like the talk, the art in
Takanoko is just gorgeous. And you have a panda like Sandy
and that was awesome. I was like kind of sad that I
could not own the panda Sandy that everyone kind of moves, you
know? Sure, I wanted to be the panda
eating the vampire, but it was it was easy enough that we could
figure it out and it wasn't hard to get into.
It's not terribly heavy game. I think it's a good game for a
casual gamer. And the rule book was really
cute because it's in comic book form.
So yeah, it's it's it's really nice one to get into the hobby
with. And there's been some a lot of,
you know, older games that people have gotten into the
hobby with, which is mainly what Ticket to Ride in Qatan.
I feel like Takanuka should have been one of them.
Like I feel like it's a little underrated.
I just think that the publisher probably wasn't doing it
widespread, although now I'm interested.
I didn't get it yet, but they have a new version that's color
bright and friendly, which is really nice to be able to, yeah.
Interesting. Allow for more colorblind, you
know, friendly games is was definitely a trend for the last
few years for sure. What I think, I can't speak for
any other game and I would encourage you to go back to
episode 135 and listen to that episode.
I interviewed and I think my my listeners are tired of hearing
this. I interviewed the CEO of Catan
Studios, Pete Fenlan. He's getting ready to retire,
and he's the guy responsible for convincing Klaus Toiber to
translate Katan into English and bring it to the United States
back in 1997. And so they're celebrating the
30th anniversary this year. So I was able to get him on the
show, and he said that it was always his mission 30 years ago
to have Katan supplant Monopoly in the pop culture mindset,
right? So their business model 30 years
later is still when someone thinks about board games, you
know, they think about Catan instead of Monopoly.
And I think you're right about why Takanoko didn't rise to that
level, because it's the way the publisher was focused.
Yeah, it's really cool. Now they are.
They put out an eco friendly all wooden compostable game, you
know, so yeah. Yeah.
That was another trend. I love that publishers and
producers are starting to go that direction, which is
fantastic. Yeah, we're seeing more of that.
So, OK, so we got Takanoko, which is primarily tile
placement. So with with a few other.
Selection tile placement. We'll.
Take that because you can meet other people bamboo, you know.
Yeah, especially if you're a gardener trying to grow it.
Yeah, I got a feeling that's gonna be you and me.
You're gonna be the panda eating all the bamboo that I'm trying
to grow because I love the gardener.
But. Yeah, if we ever play together,
that's probably true. I like getting the panda carts
instead of the gardener objectives.
Nope. I totally get that.
The Gardner objective says give you more points so.
It's true, it's true. Oh hey, when playing Takanoko,
do you? Is it an obligation that when
you move the panda, you have to make the chomping sound that
you're eating the eating the? No, we don't do that.
I mean, that's a great house rule.
My wife gets mad if you move the panda.
If you take a panda card and you move the panda on your turn and
you don't go and put it in. Yeah, if you don't make the
noise, she will kick you out of our house.
Alternatively, she'll do the same thing.
We're playing heat, right? Pedal to the metal.
Yeah. If you don't go vroom, she gets
mad at you. Yeah.
So you got to. You got to make the noises.
They matter. They matter.
And then Water Deep is primarily, though not
exclusively, worker placement, A Caverna definitely resource
management Such. So granted, I'm not saying that
it's limited to these three games, but do you have a
favorite game mechanic that you don't care what the theme is,
You don't care who the players are?
You're going to play this game because you're so excited about
the mechanic. I always say worker placement.
I feel like worker placement can have a lot of variation.
It's usually not very mean. I mean, there's that blocking
mechanism, but there's no real take that in worker placement.
That's usually usually and I I love it because it's, you know,
about, you know, building up your resources to do objectives
for the most part, you know, getting things to help do more
things. It kind of combos and builds on
top of each other. So I love worker placement
games. If you say worker placement,
I'll be like, OK, I'll definitely try it.
If you say area control, though, I'll be like, wait, I'm SUS.
I don't know. You'll have to really.
You know, you'll have to really. I'm always like going through
the lists of, you know, like different cons.
I'm like carry of control. It'll be at my end of my list to
go check out, but yeah. So.
I don't like the. No.
Don't work things from you. I worked and I build up my
resources. Don't come and take it from me.
So do you have a favorite worker placement game?
Well that's so hard because it really depends.
Like because I like light games all the way to very heavy games
like Lasorda's and stuff. Sure if I was going to introduce
someone to worker placement my to go to would be Lords of
Waterdeep or Asking for Troubles.
Because Asking for Troubles is like Lords of Waterdeep, but
it's friendly in that your spaces aren't blocked, but when
you hit bump somewhat out, you get a little something extra and
they get a little something. So it's a little more friendly
than Lords of IoD, same mechanic where you're just going getting
stuff to fulfill contracts, but it's set in space, yeah.
I'm all for space games. That's a theme that warms my
heart, yeah. Nice.
I love space games. There's a lot.
You have a lot to choose from. There really is.
There really is a lot. And I'm not, I'm not picky,
right? Because, and I realize not all
space games are created equally, but I do, I mean, I'm a big fan
of Star Wars, so naturally Star Wars games kind of win.
And if you were to ask, I'm probably just a little bit more
of a Star Trek fan than a Star Wars fan.
But I don't see them to be. I don't think they're at odds.
I think you can love them both. Well, they're totally different.
Besides being space in ballet, Yes, they're totally different.
Like one set in a ideal futuristic exploration, the
other ones like post apocalyptic, you know, like
fighting, you know, it's all dirt and death and you know,
like you're just trying to stround your way, you know,
scrounge a living while you know, they have replicators in
Star Trek and no one's really, you know, starving.
And I don't think they're the same.
They just so star with star, you know?
Well, and they're and they, they are in space, right?
Yeah, I think that's where the comparisons definitely diverge.
I get that. But but yeah, the problem is for
me is there's just not a lot of good Star Trek games.
There are more Star Wars games that are actually fun to play.
There's so many Star Trek games that let me down.
And if I find a Star Trek game, I will buy it.
I don't need AI will buy it and I will play it and I'll keep it
for a really long time, even if it's terrible.
But eventually it's going to have to go and there's just not
a lot of them. There are.
Some are, some did. You try?
Did you try Star Trek Qatar? Oh yes, Yep, absolutely.
That's not bad. It's not, it's not bad, but then
it's only a Star Trek skin of right that's gone.
I'm thinking like, see what was it?
It was that two player, that two player miniatures game that was
just terrible. It was on my board game backlog
for years because we couldn't figure out how to play it.
That's hard when the rule book doesn't allow you to.
Fleet captains maybe *? Trek, yeah, but there's no Star
Trek captain's chair. Have you played that one?
So I haven't played it. I saw a demo and I was like,
this game is just too much math. It's so, so much.
It's so much. I love Star Trek Ascendancy, but
unfortunately that's area control.
But it has weaknesses, although Gale Force 9 is working through
that. I love Star Trek Panic, love
Star Trek Panic, love five year Mission.
Star Trek Five Year Mission is a really great game too.
Good cooperative dice place and game.
The tension builds. If you played that and you
mentioned tabletop, but Will Wheaton, they played that on an
episode and now that I remember that, that game is that's a
solid, that's a solid win in my book.
Hard to find, hard to find game. But yeah, I mean, so there are
some good ones, but there are some really bad Star Trek games,
which is just unfortunate. Yeah, I mean, the one behind you
from CGE was that Starship. Captain.
'S does feel like a Star Trek game.
I mean, you know, it's a Star Trek game without having the
license, and it's really good. Yeah, and it's a good game.
I wish it were licensed Star Trek, but Oh well.
So how about do you have I asked this question of everyone?
It's a 2 parter because I realized how challenging the
first part is. So my question is, do you have a
favorite game of all time? If you don't, because I know
that's difficult, do you have a favorite game right now that is
just hitting your table? Frequently see I have multiple
favorite games, but it depends on who I'm playing with.
Like I have a favorite like 2 player game.
I have a favorite like heavy game.
I have a favorite game when I don't know who I'm going to be
playing with right and then I have a favorite like party game
that you get. But I think my favorite game
right now that I've been playing a whole whole bunch of is
Darwin's Journey. So good.
Ellen's so good, yeah. Darwin's journey is just magical
and it plays really well at all player counts.
Yeah, and it's on BGA means makes it easier to play and get
multiple games in, Yes, you know, So yeah.
I can't remember what episode. I'm usually pretty good about
the episode numbers, but we did an entire episode dedicated to
Darwin's Journey where we spent like 45 minutes just talking
about how much we really enjoy Darwin's Journey.
It's just a solid game. And and, and Thundergriff,
they're just a great publishing house.
You know, their games are really strong.
So good choice. Yeah, because Darwin's Journey
plays really well at 2:00. So I have to ask because my wife
is also a gamer. We were both gamers when we and
married, so we play a lot of two player games.
What is your favorite two player game?
For me and my friend Ruby, who I usually play two player games
with, okay and we like the quickness of it, is * Realms or
Hero Realms. Sure, yeah.
Just a quick back and forth, we already know it very well.
We can just, you know, two or three games out in a short
period of time and that's kind of like our go to like get into
it or get at the end of a game day and just like that quick two
player back and forth, which is really fun.
Now, the recent games that I've been playing, which is 2 player
specific tag team. So tag team is yeah tell.
Me. Really interesting.
So tag team, you have two different, I guess fighters and
each of each person will have two different fighters and
you'll have slightly different abilities and different decks
and the two decks will be mixed into each other.
And it's a little bit of memory because you'll start with one
card, you'll both flip that one card over.
Actually start with two cards and you choose the order and
then you'll flip the top card and based on whoever like
characters on that card will fight the other character.
And then you'll flip the other one.
And then you'll fight, you're trying to knock down one KO1
character, which is knockout, right?
Then you'll flip those cards over, draw 3 cards from your
mixed deck and choose one to put where you want it.
So you're like, oh, OK, my first one was, you know, defense.
So if I put the fighting 1, you know, attacking one on top, then
maybe you know, they're going to not do it that way.
And then you kind of have to remember what they did so that
you can maybe put a defense where they're going to hit you.
And then it's silly because no one's going to remember, no,
unless you have, you know, photographic memory.
And then you're like, that's what happened.
And and you just keep on going until someone's cut KO.
So it's a little bit of programming.
You'll never shuffle the cards. It's always just adding one card
to a place within the deck of your choice and then just
flipping one card over, you know, kind of auto battler is
what they call it. Yeah, interesting, Interesting.
That's really cool. I'll have to check that out.
That sounds like something that I think it's just, it's just,
it's a puzzly enough. I think my wife would really
enjoy the puzzle aspect of that a little.
Bit lighter, yeah. Have you tried Floristry?
Yes, I love floristry. That's that game.
I can't win that game. Cannot.
Yeah. That's what happens when you
marry someone who's smarter than you.
It just, you know, that's it. She figures it all out, you
know? Do you have our favorite player
color blue? But a lot of people I play with
also play blue. So how do you resolve that with
your friends? If it's a game I know well then
I will give up blue for the person who does not know the
game as well. And I'll play red for the most
part because usually the people I play red with, like Jackie,
I'll play blue. They'll play red, right?
But then they're not playing with us, so I'll play red
instead because I'm always looking for blue for the most
part. If someone else plays blue, I
always tell them I might move your piece.
I will take longer to take my turns because I have to
recalculate because I'm calculating for blue, you know,
but there's a lot of games that player color does not matter,
like in Let's Go to Japan. And so I, I don't mind sitting
wherever it's just Blues is really pretty so.
OK, yeah. So I had this, so I asked this
question of everyone and it was Iris last week.
And then I had Grant Lyon on and they both didn't have a color
preference. And Grant specifically said by
not having a player color preference, he doesn't ever move
someone elses pieces or you know, because it affects the way
you strategize because you're, you know, and I'm like, because
I also have a favorite color purple.
And I'm like, I've been victim of that where I planned where
the purple piece was or whatever.
And I'm like that's a good point.
Is not being attached to player color is.
But I think as a new gamer, you don't think about that.
No one tells you that in the beginning, right?
And you just go with your favorite color because everyone
has a favorite color, right? Right.
So it isn't for, I mean, for someone like Grant who, you
know, plays tons of games and sure is constantly put out
content, that's like a must, right?
That's a must way to reformulate your brain so that you can get
more games played so that you can play with more players.
But as a casual gamer or something new to hobby, no one's
going to tell you not to do that, right?
That's, that's true. That's true.
What I try to do, if I'm introducing a game to some new
gamers, I try to just give them a color rather than ask.
I mean, a lot of people are like, well, that's kind of rude.
But for everything you just said, and if they're like, hey,
can I play green, I was like, OK, that's fine.
But I warn them if you know later, I try to at least try to
be. But then at the end of the day,
you could do whatever you want, right?
So, so let's talk about content creation.
I'm really interested in your story where you transitioned
from just a casual gamer into an actual content creator, right?
And I've talked about this with everyone else.
The difference, I believe is intention, right?
And that's what really makes you separate the content created
from a casual gamer. When did when did that happen
for you? Why did you decide to do that?
You know, just talk to me through that.
I've always created content, taking pictures basically and
posting it in on social media. But it wasn't like until the
pandemic that I started moderating for a lot of Twitch
streamers. And so, you know, I was on, you
know, 3 or 4 different streams, moderating for them and seeing
how they do it. And then I was watching Matthew
Jude on his stream and it was his birthday and then people
started, you know, giving him money, like donating and all
that stuff. And you know him and Paul has
been doing this for years, right?
I see their podcast and everything.
So I was like, yeah, that's really cool.
But I personally could never like just go on and ask for
money. But my birthday was coming up,
so I was like, maybe I should do a birthday stream, but I don't
want to ask for money for myself.
So I decided to raise money for Extra Life.
Extra Life is a charity that helps the Miracle Network of
Hospitals, Children's Hospital, specifically in North America.
And they always have a lot of gamers and they do a big game
day. So I was like, OK, I'll raise
money for that. So I had one week until my
birthday and then I did one test stream and then I did a 18 hour
stream for my very first like proper stream.
Of course a lot of things went wrong, but I did a 18 hour
stream. I had like probably 15 different
guests on, you know, sometimes my camera went out, but the
guest was still there. So we're still chatting, I'm
eating, you know, and, and it was so awesome.
I, I want one like 2 hour reception.
I had like like 8 different guests on or playing a big party
game and stuff. So like through just like
playing games and you know, doing content, well, actually
just consuming content. I got to know these people and
there's a lot of us in the LA area, right?
And they all suggest. So I was surprised.
So they were on for my very first stream.
And then I never stopped streaming after that on Twitch.
And it was so much fun. So yeah, my, my streams have
evolved. You know, it started out very
raw with, you know, my laptop and then I had a green screen.
And then, you know, I evolved to be able to do it on a computer
and stuff like that. So, but yeah, it was, it was a
crazy day. I was like, oh, I should, I
should do 24 hours. And then I thought about it.
No, I've already raised like my goal was 1000.
I raised about $1400 and I was like, I need time, why do I keep
on going? So I stopped it.
Do you still do charity work for Astrolite?
Extra life, yeah. Extra life.
Sorry, Extra Life. Yeah.
So, OK, so we'll, we'll make sure to get a link to that to
put in the description of the episode if anyone's interested.
That'd be awesome, learning more about Extra Life.
Yeah. So one of the things that while
consuming your content and getting prepared for this
conversation, this image came up or it's not an image.
It's I kind of think in clips and phrases, right, Chunks of
words. I put them together and then I
was like, I wanted to make this the title of the episode and I
was like trying to figure it out, right?
And all I could think about in to me, right, And I'm consumed a
lot of your content, like in a short period of time, right, is
I think the best description that I can come up with you is
many shows, many talents that that is just because you are
just everywhere, right? You've been in Instagram since
2020 and you've been on YouTube since 2011, which is crazy for
someone who's only been on YouTube for a year.
And then of course, Twitch, I think is my next question.
I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this.
Twitch is your preferred platform for creating content is
that? Would you say that's correct?
It's it's the one my ADHD will allow, if that makes sense.
Like it's easier for me. I get my because I'm an extra,
my hit of, you know, some kind of interaction with the human
being. I, I can play games, I can chit
chat, you know, and, and it, it helped me through the pandemic.
It's now I'm kind of set it and forget it a little bit.
I have my list of things. It's much easier.
I'm slowly getting into editing of videos and stuff, but that's
like a whole new skill set. Like content creation is just
learning one skill set after another after another like
twitch streaming is. I didn't realize it, but it's
basically you are producing your own TV show by yourself.
You know, like you have to deal with lighting, you have to deal
with sound, you have to deal with the content, you have to
deal with the guests, you have to deal with scheduling.
You have to deal with, you know, like the whole technical part of
it of actually getting it live and all of the different
programs and how do you make it interactive and how do you
change it? How do you market it right and
advertise it? So I don't know if people
realize that they, you know, streamers really do produce ATV
show for you without a budget. So without a like any money,
yeah. No revenue.
No, you're not. You don't.
Get Pretty Little I. Mean you, you can, right.
Obviously monetization is possible and is everyone's goal.
Maybe not everyone's goal, but you know, so it's funny that you
bring that up just moments before we started recording and
I was like, OK, it's episode 150.
I've got to do something special, right?
I was like, OK, what am I going to do?
I should have dressed up for it. I should have brought up my
tuxedo. I was like, wow, I don't have
time for that. I'll do that in episode 200 or
something like so I found my jacket, but I also have like
these I'm because I'm on a folding table with a ring light
and a left, you know, just sit in front the sit in front the
shelves and talk to people, right.
And I'm like, what am I going to do?
I've got these little small portable kind of lights and I'm
like, it's just I could, I didn't.
It's a lot and I have a lot to learn.
I will say someone who's been really helpful recently because
our friendship is very new is is bonds, bonds inator.
She was my first episode in this series.
She was kind enough to jump on and help me launch the series
afterwards. She's been really helpful with
me, although sometimes she talks over my head in terms of
technology cuz she built her own computer and is gonna do these.
She's doing cool things, but I'm like, hey, what do I need to do?
You use that with me? How's my lighting?
How's this? How's that?
I wanna make it a better experience for my viewers, of
course. And I want to draw more people
to YouTube, right? I'm a terrible short form
content creator. I'm really bad at that.
I really like the long form. I'm into the interviews, right?
It's the it's the, it's the academic and the journalist in
me, right, that wants to sit down and tell let you tell your
stories. I don't want it to look good.
And this face is not one you want to look at for very long,
so I got to do what I can. Wife loves, loves looking at the
face. Maybe, I don't know.
She's always helped me make costumes.
And back when we were in Louisiana, lots of masks for
Mardi Gras. So any and my everything I would
tell people she made this jacket for me as well.
I was like, you know, my wife's got to cover up all this ugly,
you know. I mean it's just you know, but
you know, I mean yes, all all jogi aside.
But yeah, you're right. There's a lot of work into
content creation and I had no idea.
I had no idea the labor was into live streaming.
You know, especially on twitch. Twitch terrifies me.
It it, which is interesting because you're talking about it
how it's so easy and I'm like, it's scary.
Easy for me now that I've finished, you know, doing all
that, right? And I have like said it and
forget it. Things like it's definitely
hard. Although it's also like any
content creation, right? Always start with what you have
you cannot buy things until you know you want to do it for a
longer period of time right you can live stream from your phone
A lot of people do it you know you can live stream with just A1
ring light and a phone. You know that's a lot of basic
setups. Our phones nowadays are mini
computers. They are amazing.
Are you know, the cameras are them are amazing. iPhone wants
to be your video camera, right. So I feel like that's why yeah.
That's why I think like Twitch is kind of easy because also
when it's live, people are more willing to, you know, be like,
oh, you know, it's live. Of course we're going to have
technical issues. You know, they're like, yeah,
you know, it's not a really a stream unless you have technical
issues. They're more willing to say be
gracious, give you, you know, the chance while in edited form.
They're like, oh, that editing is terrible or why can't they
figure out that sound or, you know, like you, you know, you
could have edited all these alms out like, you know, it's they're
not as they're more particular because they know you have more
time to deal with it. Yeah, but I also.
That's that's a lot of time too. Yes.
Editing guys. So it's like, so cut some people
some slack if they're not getting paid and they're doing
this for the love of it, keep that in mind too.
Editing. There's there is.
It takes more work for me to edit this episode than it does
for us to record it. Absolutely.
And that's the whole reason why I think which is a little bit
easier for me versus like something like this, although,
you know, people think this is easier because they can edit out
all the problems and redo things and stuff.
I mean, you know so. That is true.
But so you know, what's interesting about this type of
content is when I first started the podcast with Garrett, I
don't like the sound of my own voice.
Me too. Oh gosh, yeah.
Yeah, and I don't like seeing myself on camera.
I quickly got over that. OK.
Like I'm like, OK, because you have to, right?
You have to. Because to think about editing
and again, I don't think this is something a lot of people
realize as well as so when we're done and I go to edit this, I
basically have to watch this entire episode, right?
I mean, yes, there is some automation, right?
If getting this, the the I, the pops and the Umm's and the ah's
and the silences that are, you know, linger that that's like a
click of a button. However, though, you know,
sometimes you want to, you want to like, I don't like what I
said. Or one time I had a guest who
asked me, could you please edit out when we talked about this,
right? Because, you know, the guest
wasn't comfortable sharing that with listeners.
I was like, OK, fine. What that means though, is I
have to go back because I'm not notating this all here.
I got a note. Go and listen to it all, catch
it, delete it. The delete, the editing is easy,
but it's the getting to it all right, you know?
And for, like, me, who's an amateur editor, I'm listening to
this like, multiple times. You have to listen to it once
slowly, and you're repeating sections, and then you have to
do it all again. And then maybe you catch
something and then you have to, like, go through and edit.
Yeah, editing, I think Riverside is a great, you know, tool
because of the transcripts. It makes editing so much easier.
But when you're editing video without Riverside and the
transcript is just, it's so hard.
Like you're listening, it's taking three times as long as
the recording to actually edit the episode.
Plus you have to add in graphics and overlays and all that other
stuff if you want to music. I'm learning overlays and B roll
like that scared me. And I've got I'm getting better
at overlays. I'm still having trouble with B
roll, but I'm gonna get there. I'm gonna get there, guys.
I'm gonna get there. I could do it.
And one tip for you, since you do use Riverside, they create
shorts for you. Just go check them out, edit a
little bit, put a front thing you know in it, and send it off
into the universe. I've messed around with the
magic clips a little bit. Yeah.
I've just yeah, because I got to figure out one of the things
Bonds and I talked about is I need to make more short form to
draw people to the podcast, consume the long.
It's like these are all the things that we have to deal
with, right man? I do have to say, my friend gave
me this tip. Your short form is like the
trailer of a movie. It's like a little, you know, a
little like if you want, if you enjoyed this and then go watch
the movie, right, You're not telling the whole story.
You're giving them a little clip of, you know what they could be
listening to or watching. So yeah, your short forms should
be little trailers. Bonds is an amazing marketing
person because she actually, like, went to college and
learned about and stuff. Yeah.
But her short form are like, flawed advertising videos, which
is absolutely amazing. Yeah.
That is, that is true. And we're not all bonds, so.
No, No, we cannot. Get we're not right.
Yeah, she's definitely an inspiration I have to say, and
hopefully she'll be on this series in a couple of weeks.
Is Dana on Instagram is better mood board games?
Her reels are just magical and she uses natural light, sunlight
in a window and her iPhone or her Android.
I'll find out when she's on the podcast and because that's one
of the reasons like she's just so lovely a person.
But I was like, your content's amazing and really
inspirational. Which leads me to my next
question. Who or what or where I got so
many questions. Where do you get your
inspiration for the content that you create?
Right now I'm kind of on autopilot.
I'm kind of doing kind of the same thing that I've been doing.
I'm changing little things and stuff, but I definitely consume
content and especially it's it's funny, I talk to other content
creators and there's like generations or different like
eras of content creators like Suzanne and Mandy Salt and Sass
games are definitely one of the OG people.
Also, what's Eric playing? And then we have the pandemic
people, right, Which is part of me, like I'm the pandemic twitch
people, you know, the brothers, Murph, Paula Demings kind of
live in the middle. I mean they've been doing it for
a long time, but you know what I mean?
Like in terms of twitch, right. So like when I started with
Twitch, you know, we, well, we'd all, you know, help each other,
watch each other streams and talk with each other.
We're all friends. And then it'd be like, how did
you do that? What camera did you use that?
And that's what we're doing behind the scenes on Discord.
Like can you tell me what camera that was?
Like, what was your lighting like, like you did with Bonds,
right? And then we'd help each other.
But then there's like, you know, redemptions, like I think
someone started the daily check in and then John started doing
it. Then I started doing it.
Mine is called a daily pop. And then, you know, Bond started
doing it. And so we're trying to like, try
different things as we see other people do it.
We take snippets from each other.
We, you know, ask each other for help all the time.
I mean, Silver Medal Tavern, if you want to see the most highly
produced live stream, go to the Silver Medal Tavern.
Because he's an actual Hollywood editor.
Like he edited the Star Trek series Strange New Worlds.
Yeah, he's one of the editors of that one.
But like his whole setup, like he has like a zoom in, like he,
you know, when you redeem, when someone raids, his whole studio
lights turn off. And then he has like this really
nice transition and everything. He has like the highest, tallest
produced live streams because he's in that industry.
And so then we ask him, what's the camera that you use?
Like what is the different functions that you're using?
Like how are you doing that? And some of it of course, is out
of my budget, so I won't get there yet.
But it's always good to have trips and tips from other
streamers. Never be afraid to be like, I'm
thinking of starting this. How did you do that?
You know, I was on another stream, the streamers Steven and
I think it's pixels and Pixies. I forgot what is that?
I'm terrible with names. So something like that, but they
like a pop up of the chat. And so I just mentioned I'm
like, how did you do that? He's like, oh, here's the link
to the website. I'm like, cool, you know, can
you help me set this up? They're like, yeah.
And so, yeah. So it really, I think the
inspirations from each other, we grow together.
We, you know, help each other out, become better.
And we all, you know, do better by sharing and, you know,
supporting one another rather than gatekeeping or keeping, you
know, the tricks and stuff to ourselves because that's not
fun. Nope, no, it's not.
I think the other thing too is I don't know if other creators
suffer from this. I think maybe sometimes, which
is really weird because I am an extrovert from Louisiana who is
not afraid to talk to somebody. It's like my dad said, the only
person I don't know is a stranger, and I don't know that
many strangers, right. And yet, like approaching Grant
and Bonds and other content creators, I was terrified.
Like, I feel like you're out of my league.
And then that because I'm listening to you talk and I'm
like, man, I really need to start reaching out for help to
get better. I keep, I keep lecturing
everyone in this community to do better.
I need to take my own advice. So you're witnessing it now.
I'm going to do better. Keep him on track when he like.
When he doesn't reach out to someone, tell him you can do
this. The worst thing that happens
going to be a no or ghosting. That's fine.
They're not your people. Is ghosting fine?
I don't like ghosting. I hate ghosting, but it's
happening. You know, people have anxiety.
I give them the benefit of the doubt that it's in their spam
folder, you know, whatever. But I think that it's important
to, you know, try if if you don't ask, you'll always get a
no, right? It's the same.
Yes, we have that conversation all the time, all the time.
So I'm going to ask this question and it's already been
answered, but let's see if we can fine tune it with a little
finesse. If someone were thinking about
becoming a content creator in the board game community, what
is there one piece of advice that you would give them and be
like, this is the most important.
If someone wanted to start content creation, I would say
figure out what type of content creation you already like doing.
Do you already like taking pictures?
Do you already like teaching games?
Do you already like talking to people?
Do you already like, you know, playing games on a camera,
right? I would say start with something
that you already like doing and then make it purposeful.
I know it's like people say, you know, do what you love.
You'll never know. You'll work more, you'll work
harder when you do something you love.
Also sometimes, yeah, yeah, this is the worst, like saying, but
also sometimes when you do, when you go into the industry that
you love, like board games, you no longer like board games
because then it's work, right? So give yourself three months.
Try it out. If you don't enjoy it, ignore
the numbers, ignore the numbers, ignore the audience in terms of
like how your growth is on the social media.
Just if you don't enjoy it, just stop and then try something
else. I feel like the worst thing
about board game content creation is for now, and that's
because now we feel a pressure to, you know, play or show off
certain games, even though we might not like it, right?
And then we burn out. And then you need a different
hobby because you used your hobby as work.
So I feel like the thing for you, for new content creators,
is to not pressure yourself. Figure out what you like doing
often, right? And then you can refine it and
make it better. But if you don't like teaching
games, don't play them live. You're going to teach games all
the time yeah, don't do live play, don't do live streams.
You're going to have to teach it on the fly.
You know, I don't do how to play videos.
You know, if you if you just like playing games, you know,
there's ways to play test and you know that will actually
generate income. There's ways to, you know, demo
demos also teaching games. But you know what I'm saying,
right? I.
Do like I do. Figure out you like talking to
people, so a podcast is the best way to do it.
Absolutely. This was a natural fit for me,
right? Plus no one does what I'm doing
right. We're just, we're just having
conversations and interviews. I'm not.
I mean, sometimes we don't even talk about board games.
We just talk about, you know, this.
And I thought this was this was a really great journey and I'm
really enjoying that. So I want to close out with this
last question. I think it's important one,
especially given everything they were going through.
To your mind, what is the one thing that this community
industry right does so well and you're so thankful for being a
part of it? What is so great about this
community? Even though like, it seems like
there's, there's thousands of board games every year.
It's a small community. Yeah.
There's only a certain number of publishers.
Everyone knows just about everyone else, especially in
like the US content crew just kind of know each other, right?
And the European kind of, you know, it's such a networking
type of community. I just love that you just get to
know people and then those people invite you to know people
as well. Because as an adult, it's very
hard to make friends outside of work, right?
It's very hard to make friends outside of work.
You have to literally go out of your way to find a class.
And even if you just take a class, you know, for your hobby,
then you don't continue talking. And so I think board games is a
great way for adults to make friendships.
You know, I love how this hobby supports each other.
I love how it grows. You know, we kind of tried to
keep each other in line, you know, like let's get some more
color blind friendly list. Let's do less plastics.
Let's make sure that we have a diverse group of people showing
off the games, you know, all the stuff that we're hoping to
continue on. And when people, you know, step
back or there's all these bad actors and terrible people,
there's, there's a network with people warning you, you know,
they're not going to, you know, be good for you or they're not
paying you or they're, they're just going to use you or, you
know, all that stuff. And so then it's very
supportive. I feel like with anything,
though, you still have to make decisions for yourself, have
boundaries, you know, figure out who is it that you want within
your circle because there's a lot of bad people in any
industry, right? So just be careful, you know,
you know, listen to others, listen to people that have been
there longer, you know, and understand that, you know, even
if they might like, not like someone, you know, you might
still have a good relationship, but maybe you should still not
force that person on to someone else because they might have a
bad interaction. So it's, it's all those like
interpersonal parasocial things that happens with content
creation. But it also gives me actual like
real life friends that I will go meet up every week, you know, in
real life, or I will go to their house, you know, and hang out
and, and we will share other things besides board games like
movies or musicals or TV shows or recipes and stuff.
And I think I love, I love that board games really helps broaden
your horizons and helps you make friends in a very hard time of
your life. If you're not working in a
office right to make friends. Right, absolutely.
That was lovely. Thank.
Thank you, thank you. That was I don't have anything
to add to that. No, that was just beautiful.
You have said succinctly everything I've thought and I've
tried to communicate through this show.
So thanks for that. Amanda Telegram where they can
find you if they want to try to consume your content or maybe
reach out to you and ask you for more tips for being a content
creator. The very short answer is I'm
under panda Angel everywhere. That's PANDA the number 8 NGEL
on most all the socials. I will even have an account and
don't post on it because I don't want anyone to take my name.
Which is another tip if you're doing content creation, have one
name posted everywhere so people can find you.
But the other things I do, I just started being the host of
the BGG podcast. You can find me also on the 55
podcast. You can find me under Our family
Plays Games on YouTube, which is I'm part of their Kickstarter
preview team and part of OFPG Voices mainly.
I stream four days a week on Twitch when I'm in town.
I know it's a lot. And then I am part of the TLN
Tabletop Live Network and Tabletop After Dark marathons
that happened once a month or once every month.
Yeah, there's a lot of different things I'm just looking at.
Yeah, if you go to Gen. Con, I help run the BIPOC lounge
and put that together. I'm a event Co chair for the
Rose Gauntlet Foundation, which is a charity that's put on by
Rose Gauntlet Entertainment that helps, you know, make sure
there's diversity, inclusivity in the industry itself and not
just in the community. So and we're supportive there.
So you can find me in a lot of different places, but mostly,
yeah, mainly under Pan Angel. And usually I'll pull in all the
other things that I'm on. And I have a, what's it called,
a list on YouTube of Panda on other people's channels, which
this podcast will be in that list as well.
Thank you. So you can see all the lovely
humans had that have, you know, asked me to guest.
And I'm always happy to guest because guess what?
Guesting is the easiest thing you could do for cotton
decoration. Easiest.
I don't have to deal with anything, but come on, play a
game. Chitchat.
Yeah, all. Right.
And you're welcome to come back anytime to talk about anything
that's on your mind. Oh.
Thank you SO. Much I would love to have you.
It's been a delight. Well, guys, thank you so much,
Amanda. Thank you for joining me for
episode 150. Huge milestone.
Thank you and don't forget to like and subscribe to all the
things and send me comments. I want to hear your thoughts
about this journey. We're only 7 episodes into the
series. I think it was like 7 or 8 more
to go. I really am just embracing this
community and I hope you are too.
As always guys, be kind to each other and let's play more games.