Hey guys, welcome to Meeple. To Meeple.
This is the fourth in my content creator community series and
with me today I have my guest that's joining me is so well
known, so prolific in the industry.
He is known as the cardboard comedian who has reshaped the
board game scene and mastered the fine art of the punchline as
well as player interaction. OK, that's sounds.
Very nice Lions Grant. Grant.
Yeah. Joining.
How are you I? Mean, I feel very flattered
right now. That's how I'm doing pretty
good, you know, a lot of times. How I get it?
Yeah, a lot of times when people, you know, introduce you
to stuff, they just pull whatever sort of I've written
about me on my website or things like that and do credits.
That was a very lovely intro. Well.
Thank you. Thanks for that.
Yeah. I work hard on these.
You know, it's like I've got to say the right thing.
And because I feel like, I feel like the pressure's on me
because I am not a comedian. I have not mastered delivery.
And you are. You're the master.
And I'm like, whoo, Yeah. Well, I.
Mean today it really just comes from experience.
I've just been doing comedy for a long time.
I was actually thinking about this recently.
I've I've now just, I just crossed the threshold where I've
been doing comedy more of my life than I haven't.
I've been doing comedy. Wow.
I know. Wow.
Pretty. Wild.
That's great. That's that's awesome.
Yeah, I. Am.
I'm kind of the opposite. I have not cultivated the humor.
I have cultivated the serious academic side of things.
Right. Yeah, I, yeah, I failed as a kid
growing up. Like, I thought it would be
funny and I was not sure. Just kind of buried myself in
books and got all serious and, well, analytical, I mean.
The world can use all different types of people, so.
That is true. That is true, which is part of
the reason I have you on is I'm a firm believer in with
everything that's been going on and you know, right lately
around us, we talk about, you know, you hear a group of people
talk about, oh, well, it's all I got.
But unity, right? We gotta we be united.
It's like, but in order to be united, we have to embrace
diversity. Sure, yeah.
And so I'm trying to cultivate a community of content creators
who are as different from me as I possibly can, right?
And so it's great to have you on.
And this is this will be a great, this would be a great
conversation I'm looking forward to.
Well, thanks for having. Yeah.
So let me ask you and I'm going to ask everybody.
This is the first question, right?
What was the first board game you ever played as a kid?
I mean, so when I was like a little kid, I remember playing
more like card games. We had more like classic card
games, you know, like I definitely remember at a very
young age playing Go Fish or Egyptian Rat Screw was one we
played or Gin Rummy or War or all that sort of stuff.
Like, we had a lot of card games when I was a little kid and I
don't know what was like the first game I ever played.
I think the first classic game that I really liked was
Parcheesi. You know, that one was like,
yeah, there there was the dice element of like trying to get
out of of your zone, of your starting zone.
But I felt like there was more decisions to it than most men at
a pretty young age. We got Stratego and Stratego is
probably like the classic game that I still would play, you
know, like I still have a copy of Stratego from when I was a
kid and stuff. That's that's probably the
oldest game in my collection. Is this Stratego board from the
90s. You know, that's incredible.
Wow. Yeah.
Yeah, man. So, OK, so if I ever see you at
a convention, I'll make sure to bring a copy of Stratego and be
like. Sure.
Fancy. Yeah, Yeah.
The only thing with you, I've played it against my brother a
lot when I was young. We played that one a lot.
And then I got into Magic the Gathering when I was like maybe
like 11 years old. And so that was like a pretty
big introduction as well. So we had a like a family friend
who had a son that was maybe 12 years older than me, and he was
really into Magic the Gathering. And he gave me boxes of all of
his parts that he didn't care about, you know, and he was
like, yeah, I'm just getting rid of these.
And me as an 11 year old, I was like, so cool.
Like, so that helped me get started in Magic.
And then I went and like, you know, bought my own cards and
packs and that sort of stuff. So what?
So what are we talking about? We talking like Ice Age or?
Magic. Yeah.
Do you? Remember when it?
Yeah, this would have been around like 9495.
OK. So pretty early.
Yeah, OK. Yeah, My story's similar in
terms of my introduction of Magic.
I had friends who had boxes and boxes of Commons and uncommons
that they didn't want, and they were just like, here, make a
deck. And I'm like, OK.
Yeah. I did what I was doing, but it
was great. I did it, yeah.
I I was pretty into it for like 3 years and then, you know, just
got into other things. So I still have a lot of my old
cards, yeah. Yeah, we have.
I think we have like 12 or 15 decks that we built.
And yeah, occasionally my wife and I'll, you know, we'll get a
whim and let's play Magic. Yeah, she likes to play
commander and she's got a commander cat deck because we
own a bunch of cats and she loves cats.
And so the challenge is that so playing Magic man wise is
basically it's like a organized we're going to put all the cards
on the table and look at the art.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's old attacker.
Yeah. Attacker.
She's like. That's how I played when I was a
kid. I played with my mom a lot, and
she never knew the rules. She would just show me her hand
and then I would tell her what to do, and then I would do my
turn. So I was effectively playing
magic against myself, just with the other person sitting there.
Yeah. But you know what, if it makes
my wife Abby, I'm like, that's fine.
Yeah, you can have all the chats on the table.
So what was the first? What was the first like modern
board game that got you involved in the hobby?
So I really got back into games maybe about 10 years ago.
Like to that my buddy who's a comedian was into the world of
modern board games and he started hosting game nights for
other comedian friends in Los Angeles.
And I can't remember what the specific game was, but I can
tell you like the sort of host of games that we were playing
early on. Bang the Dice game was one that
we played all the time. Cash and Guns is 1.
We played all the time. Telestrations code names.
It was one of my big early games.
So those were like it was all kind of in the party game world.
And then I sort of slowly started transitioning into more
strategy games after that. Code names was probably like the
first game because those other ones I mentioned are all pretty
silly, right? Code names was a little bit more
thinky, a little bit more OK, you know, like there was a
little bit more strategy to it than there was with like
Telestrations or cashing guns. And so that probably opened it
up. And then there was a couple of
other times where, you know, I, I was at like then as I started
playing more board games, meeting other, not even meeting
comedians, but other comedians that were like, oh, I like board
games. So I remember like one of the
first strategy games I played was in a green room at a comedy
club here in Los Angeles. We played a Zool.
One of my buddies introduced me to a Zool and I love that one.
And that guy that hosted game night was named his name Shane
Moss. And he sort of moved away not
that long after he he went on the road to tour and he left me
and my buddy a lot of his games when he left town.
So he just gave us like, you know, he gave us 30 or 40 games
like when he left town. And then me and my buddy Dave
were like, oh, Shane's leaving. But we really like these monthly
game nights. Why don't we start Co hosting,
you know, a monthly game night? And so we kind of picked up the
mantle after Shane left town. And then we would do a thing
where we would go buy new game or two every time we were
hosting a game night just to have something new to try that
night. And also then in like I can
remember some of the ones that we bought, like some favorites
we bought just for a game night. I remember we bought Skull and
that became like a big favorite. Horrified was one we bought
before a game night and that became a big favorite, you know,
and then Shane would come back to town and stay with us.
And then he would always buy us a new game for the house
whenever he was in town. So I remember he bought like
Century Gollum Edition was one that he bought for us.
Ocean Explosion was one that he bought.
So like that, you know, then my, yeah, my collection grew, you
know, pretty fast. But you know, even when like the
pandemic started, the pandemic like accelerated it and making
content accelerated it. I probably had 100 games when
the pandemic started. And so you know a good amount of
games, but not, not, you know, anywhere near what I have now
since I've been making content and stuff.
Speaking of which, you're famous for, if anyone comes to your
house for game day, they get to take a free game home.
That is true. I do that all the time.
Yeah, I have a whole stack of games.
The funniest part about it is that I go I, we have like
essentially there's like an old beat up unit in my garage.
And I asked our landlords. I was like, hey, could I, you
know, rent that out as a place to like keep my board games and,
and film stuff. So I kind of turned this old
beat up unit into my game room, my both my studio and my just
like play area. And so there's like a a non
functioning bathroom in that in that.
And so I keep all the games that I'm giving away in the in the
bathroom. So there's literally game
stacked in the shower in there and stuff like that.
So yeah, I, I mean, for me, it makes me happy because one, I, I
need to createspace for new games to come in.
And two, you feel good because you get to leave with a free
game and there's some like there's some pretty good games
in there. I will because you know, for for
a while, when you, when you start getting into like content
creation, it's easy to get rid of the games that you don't
like, right? We all have games we played at
once and we're like, Nah, that's not for me.
Like that's, that's going away. But at some point you run out of
space. And so now I'm getting rid of
games that I do like that I think are really good games.
I just have to Createspace for doing so, like, right, you know,
you, I'm like, I'm glad that this is going to a good home
because this is a great game. I just can't keep it, you know?
Yeah, I, I love that. I think I remember when you
first started, you recorded some videos of your stack in the
bathroom. I'm like.
Yeah, yeah, I. Was in a bathroom.
Like, I know I also think it's funny, so I do it for that
reason, yeah. So that's crazy.
So being a comedian not only brought you into the hobby, it
also brought you into content creation and got your
collection. Yeah, like big time.
So for those of you listening, if you're thinking about, you
know, a. Career economy.
Yeah, yeah. It's crazy.
So, so in all this time and you've been, so you've been
content creating since just before the pandemic.
Right. No, since like, since like May
2020, it took the pandemic for me to start making content.
OK, Yeah. So, so do you have a favorite
board game that like you will never get rid of?
And if if not, cuz I realize that's a difficult question,
right? Yeah.
Do you have a favorite board game today that is hitting your
table regularly? Sure.
I mean, if I was to say like favorite game of all time, it's
obviously very hard to pick. I think that's one of the
hardest games we ask any gamer, one that I will never get rid of
because it's a game that I love and then you just can't get this
version anymore, is the original Sheriff of Nottingham.
It is a top ten game of all time to me.
And you can get the game now. It's just under a different
company and with a different art style and stuff like that.
And you know, I really like the original art style and I really
like the original. And it's not that the new one
looks bad, it doesn't at all. It just, you know, I got to,
this was an early game for me, a game that I love and you just
can't get the version I have anymore.
And so that is for sure a game that I will never get rid of so.
Yeah, that's amazing. I love that, that Service of
Nottingham's interesting game. I've only played it twice.
OK. I am, I am terrible at it
because I'm a terrible liar or bluffer or whatever.
So I'm always telling the truth, right?
So when I say there are two apples or whatever in the bag,
that's what there is. And so you know that.
So you're the sheriff? Yeah.
The problem is though, that means I'm not scoring a lot of
points. Yeah, but you know what?
I played at one time and it was what it made me infuriated.
One time I played with my dad, who never lied the entire game.
And he won because everybody else kept getting caught and
stuff like that. And then he just kept getting
extra stuff. None of us trusted each other.
And he would just, he just kept doing it.
And so I was like, no, you can't win by telling the truth.
And he he did win. He won the game.
Apparently you. Can win by.
Telling it is possible. You just need everybody else
around you to be liars. Yeah, there.
You go so so. The truth only wins when there's
one voice, right? This is why we have to be united
in one. Yeah, so that's definitely a
game I'll never get rid of. I mean, a game that I'm like
loving a lot in the present moment.
The game I'm most obsessed with in this present moment is White
Castle Duel. So I really like the original
White Castle. It was one of my top ten games
the year it came out. It is a game that is still in my
collection that I really love and the dual version is great
and it feels like a different game that is inspired by the
original. So like, they're both going to
stay in my collection, you know what I mean?
Like they're different enough, but the dual version is a little
bit nice because it's not quite as tight and punishing as the
original. So it feels maybe just slightly
more forgiving, which is nice. Yeah, OK.
But that is still a deeply. Yeah, yeah.
Still a very strategic game for two players.
That is beautiful. So what about?
What about a favorite game mechanic throughout all this?
Game. Mechanic that you're like, I
don't care what the theme is, sign me up.
Sure. Yeah.
I mean, I'm definitely like a big worker placement fan and so
some of my favorite games of all time are like a champions of
Midgard or apiary or places that do a worker placement mixed with
some other stuff. You know, like that's a big
thing for me. Like I like I like when there
are exciting moments in games. Push your luck is always like
been one of my favorites because there's just big emotional
moments. Like I play games to be social
is like the main reason that I play games.
And and so I love a game like Champions of Midgard where there
is this, you know, worker placement, strategic aspect to
it. But at some point you're like,
let's just roll some dice and hope it works out for me.
You know, like I need a little bit of that.
Like a dry euro game is never my bag because it's just like I
need there to be, you know, 80% strategy, 85% strategy and just
like 15% luck to make it exciting.
OK, I could see it and I see that appeal.
I do love the dry. I do love a good dry euro to be
honest. That's fair.
And there is like, I don't, I like some of playing a lot of
games is just learning what you like and stuff.
And it's not that I won't play those games.
I just find them a little static to me.
Like I want exciting moments. Like, I love Wonderland's War,
where there's a ton of strategy in that game, but at some point
it's just about reaching into your bag and hoping you get what
you want. That is true, that is very true.
We just we just got mod Colla the the dual version yeah sure
is working Boy, that game is good.
OK, nice. That is, that is like, I mean,
at the end of the day, you're just moving your things around
the table, Sure, so you can activate your cards, but man,
yeah, you've got to think out because your actions are so
tight. Sure, sure.
It's it's it's worthy. It is so so definitely
definitely check that out. It's not it's not a
disappointment. You know, that's something I'm
sure you've noticed this. I've talked so many people about
this, the the trend of these two player versions of games that
are just. There's a lot of them, right?
Here. Right.
Yeah, there's a lot. What?
What have you observed? Like what do?
What do you attribute that to? Well, one, you know, I think
that that trend exploded. It started to explode during the
pandemic where oftentimes you were only playing a game with
one other person. You know, it was it was parents
who were trying to get a game to the table after they put their
kids down to bed and things like that.
And so I think that the pandemic certainly accelerated it.
But beyond that, now we're just realizing like there are a lot
of people that want to play with a significant other that don't
have the friend group or don't have the energy to try to
organize a game night or things like that.
And it's just, you know, I mean, that's two player games are some
of the easiest to get to the table, right?
Like you, you just had, you just need one other player, whether
that's a roommate or a loved one or a child, you know, when
you're your kid or something like that.
It's just nice to get to the table.
It's easy to get to the table. And I think the other thing that
a lot of these two player version games are doing is I
would argue that a lot of them have improved upon the original
for the simple fact that a lot of times a great example of this
is Splendor. Like Splendor is a game that got
me into games. It was one of the early strategy
games that I played. But Splendor, I think after
you've played it a lot, they're sort of a winning path, right?
Like there's like I'm going to kind of do the same strategy
every time I play. Whereas Splendor Duel instead of
having one path to victory, now there are three different ways
you can win the game. And so I might go into a game
being like, oh, I want to do this way, but then I don't get
the cards or I don't get that stuff.
And now I need to shift my strategy in the middle of the
game. You know, 7 Wonders Duel did
that really well as well. There are multiple paths to
victory. And so I think that having sort
of multiple win conditions in the game makes it a lot more
interesting because you have to respond to what's happening in
that specific game and sort of adapt your strategy in the
moment. What do you think about?
I've been thinking a lot about this lately is again, I don't
know if this is causal or correlation or if I'm just
wrong, which could be possible. What do you think about the rise
up? There seems to be a significant
rise in the advocacy and the involvement of women in the
industry. Yeah, by itself is a good thing.
But now you're seeing, you know, instead of it just being guys
and, you know, gatekeeping and all that stuff.
Now you've got these. You said this a moment ago.
You have couples who want to game together, whether they've
got kids and they just need something quick at the end of
the day, or they just want to game together.
Like my wife is a driving force in our collection.
Nice. Particularly for that reason,
you know? Yeah.
In fact, she was more because I
came from Louisiana, where we all grew up in the board game
closet, and you couldn't talk about it.
She grew up in the Midwest, where games were more prominent.
So she was more of a gamer than I was when we met.
So we're always looking for really great two player games.
And she and I talk about a lot the dynamic that there are more
women we're seeing more female designers of games, more
publishing houses owned by women.
This is all great. And I'm wondering if there's a
connection. You have a unique perspective in
that because of your influence and reach, you've got a lot of
relationships with these people. And I'm wondering, do you think
that may have anything to do with it or am I just way off
base? No.
No, I think that that I think that's probably be true on some
level. I think, you know, with the
growth of platforms like TikTok and Instagram, people can find
niches that they are interested in a lot easier than they used
to be able to. And, you know, so and then you
get a a few female content creators, very good content
creators, people see themselves reflected in that and, and it
gives them permission to do it. I mean, that's always, that's,
that's the greatest benefit of diversity, I think in any aspect
of life is that you are letting other people see themselves
reflected in that hobby or in that interest.
And then and then you're giving them permission to also jump
into that sort of stuff. And so, yeah, I mean, and also I
think as, as we get more and more dependent on technology,
people are looking for reasons to connect outside of that
technology. I, you know, that feeling
crosses gender lines and ethnicity lines and stuff like
that, right? It's just, I do so much on my
phone, I want a reason to put my phone aside and connect with
someone. And so I think, you know,
couples getting into games together, I think that's one of
the main reasons is like, oh, this is just a good way to
connect. And every couple is going to be
different. Some couples are going to be
competitive and they want to keep, you know, tally of how
often each other are beating them and they get to talk crash
to each other and stuff like that.
And other couples are like, no, we want to play cooperative
games because it makes us feel good together when we win
together and stuff. And so the fact that there are
so many different types of games allows for different types of
people to get into it as well. Which by in and in and of itself
creates more diversity of people in the community and the need
for cultivating and nurturing that community so that we can be
united. Yeah.
Yeah, I told you. I told you.
I get. Yeah, yeah.
Over analyze everything. So we're talking about
platforms. What is your favorite platform
that you like to use for your content?
Because there's there's so many like you just said.
And I yeah, and. You're on all of them.
I'm on all of them. You.
Got a favorite one? Probably.
Instagram is my personal favorite.
So like I obviously rose to prominence making short form
both sort of informative yet silly videos.
I would call them like it's real information done in a dumb way
and stuff is is how I do it. And so, you know, TikTok and
Instagram were places that responded to my style my first
year that I was making content, I was only doing stuff on
YouTube. And so, and I don't think, you
know, didn't it didn't grow as much as I wanted it to.
And I was still doing short and, you know, kind of humorous, but
informative videos on YouTube. And I was just thinking like a
year into it. I was like, you know, I, I think
I need to try like some of these other platforms just because I
think maybe my style would resonate more on those
platforms. And then so starting the
Instagram and TikTok like a year after I started making content
and then they did grow a lot more on there.
And I like, you know, I like Instagram because you still have
the opportunity to do photos and carousels as well.
It's nice. Like sometimes I'm just at a
game day and I'm not like making a video about the game day, but
I want to share a bunch of games that I played and things like
that. And so you can't really do the
static images as well on TikTok. And so I've liked the, I like
the flexibility of Instagram, but I also, you know, I'm very
grateful to TikTok in the sense that like of any of the
platforms out there, TikTok did a good job of putting creators
in front of people that didn't know who they were, right?
It felt like on YouTube, it was like, oh, you're just servicing
the people that, that already know who you are.
It's hard to, it's hard to find the new audiences.
Whereas the algorithm on TikTok intentionally was like, hey,
we're gonna put this in front of you.
Do you like this? Hey, we're gonna put this in
front of you. And so it was easier to find the
niches you were interested in, the hobbies that you were
interested in on TikTok. I was very reticent about TikTok
because of current events I had. I had a TikTok account in 24 and
then it was that deadline in January where it was going to
shut down and it did for a day. And so I just deleted it.
Well, I recently was able to recover it and rebrand it for
the podcast. That's that's what I'm learning
because because of what you just said, I need more listeners,
right? You know, it's, it's not about
it's not really about followers. It's more about that reach
because I need people to listen so that we can so you could hear
the message of community and hear about everyone's stories.
It's so important to me. And it's like, OK, so TikTok
clearly is that because I thought Instagram was kind of
building an echo chamber a little bit.
I was, I was observing that I wasn't getting much reach.
I wasn't gaining a lot of followers.
And it was like, everyone who's listening and who's watching my
posts, I am already friends with them.
So why can't I break out? And then I hear about TikTok and
I'm like OK, well I gotta. Yeah, yeah.
So I need a master TikTok. That's the goal at the end of
this year is get that figured out so we can bring more people
in and, you know, listen to you tell your story.
That's the one for getting you in front of new people.
Yeah. So I've got to.
I've got to do better at that. Sure.
So what is it about the community?
What do you think that the community just does right, that
you love most about this community and you're so glad
that it exists? Well, it's just so welcoming,
right? I mean, that's the thing that
makes it makes me keep coming back for more and more is people
are just really welcoming and really friendly and open and
honest. You know, I have a joke in my
board game from stand up where I say like someone said to me one
time they were like, wow, like board gamers are really
inclusive. Like it's a pretty progressive
community. And, and, and my joke is like,
yeah, we don't care who you are as long as you're willing to
play with a game with us. Like if you were willing to play
a game, great. Like I don't care what your
background is, what anything, just go play a game.
Oh my God, that's great. I love it.
That's so true. We don't see, we don't see the
color your skin. We see the color of the meeple
that you have on the table. You, you normally play red.
OK, you know I'm judging for that more than anything else.
It's very true. But yeah, some of the arguments
that I have either listened to or have been a part of because
you want to play the same color that I.
Want. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I've made some of my closest friends just in the board game
world in a way that I wasn't expecting to.
Yeah, you know. So Speaking of, do you have a
favorite player color that you? No, I'm a chameleon and like I
have seen too many people playing a game be like, Oh no, I
always play blue. And I've been thinking about the
moves for the blue player this whole time, but I'm not playing
blue right now. I'm playing the yellow this
game. And so I was always like, I'm
never going to fall victim to that.
I'm going to be a different color all of the time.
That's a good strategy. That's a great strategy.
Yeah. I mean, I'm partial, but I mean,
like, I have, I have tears, right?
Sure. It's like I wanna play purple.
If I can, I play yellow. If not, I'll play green.
Sure, I'll play. I'll play black.
Sure. Great.
Blue. OK.
Yeah, there. There's nothing I won't play as.
Yeah, I suppose I would lean towards blue like all given
everything equal, but like I'm normally always just like I'll
pick last, whatever is left, I'll take, yeah.
We've got a friend in our local game group who's like that, like
whatever color is leftover. That's the I'm good with.
Yeah, I do that. I do that at game conventions,
like when you're at open gaming and you're playing, especially
when you're playing with strangers that you don't know.
Sure, I know I don't have a favorite color.
I mean, I do, but not today. Yeah, yeah.
Well, you know, I'm always thinking about how to make other
people's experiences good. And so if you get to be the
color that you want to be, that makes you happy, that that's
fine with me. I'm just looking for ways to
make people interested. Exactly.
So what about the community of
stand up comedians? Because that was a community you
were part of first. Yeah, totally.
How does it compared to the community of board gamers?
Content creators, I think. Sure.
Yeah. You know, I think the art form
of stand up is pretty individualistic, right?
You are on stage by yourself. And so the community of
comedians is much more individualistic than the world
of board games. Yeah, you certainly, you know,
have your friends and build your community in the world of comedy
as well. But there's an underlying
competitiveness that exists that's more than the board game
world. Yeah, I, I think some of that is
also because, like, the board game world is still a fairly
small niche in the grand scheme of things.
Yeah. And so board gamers really have
this attitude of, you know, the the rising Todd raises all
ships. Like even when it comes to
publishers, a lot of publishers will celebrate other publishers
success because they're like, hopefully the success of that
game is creating new gamers and that's going to trickle down to
the rest of us. I don't think that attitude
exists in the comedy community as much now.
Certainly there is pockets of that like I am happy for my
friends to succeed and things like that.
But there is still sometimes this feeling of like, oh, you
got this, that means I didn't get it right.
You know, there's a competitiveness that exists a
lot more in that like a cutthroatness almost, you know,
the entertainment business is cutthroat.
You know, like it takes a lot of, of posturing and, and and
figuring stuff out to, to make a career happen.
Isn't there an element of that in content creation as well
though I suppose? There is an element of it, but I
also don't feel like it is the prevalent aspect of it.
Like, like I, you know, I think people are still happy to
collaborate with each other on content and, you know, that
we've, we share each other's content a lot.
And so I, I think, you know, I think there's going to be that
aspect in any community. Sure.
Yep. But I do not feel like it is as
prevalent in content creation as it is in the world of comedy.
Right, right. Yeah, personally.
So what is that? Let's let's take the flip side
of this. Is there one thing that you've
observed that the community needs to do a better job of,
right? Well.
We talk about building community and one of the ways to do that
is to just provide constructive, you know, a criticism so that it
can be better. And it's it's and not meant for
you to call anyone out or anything.
But is there something that you've observed?
This is not about content create creators.
This is about this the board game community as a whole.
Yes. So what I would say is what we
need to do better as a whole is think about the games we are
using to introduce new people to the hobby.
Here's a story from my life where my younger sister and my
two sisters play games regularly, but they're like, you
know, lighter fun. They like party games, they like
family strategy games and stuff like that.
And one of my sisters was dating a guy who liked board games.
And this is a tangential connection, but it was a guy
that that guy was friends with was like, come over for a game
night. The two sisters will come, the
guy you're dating will come. We're going to do a four person
game night. And he when they got there, he
had arcs on the table. And my sisters hated it.
And they had a terrible experience.
And like that was a good example of like that guy did no thinking
about who was coming over to play games.
That guy wanted to play arcs and it did not matter who was coming
over. He wanted to play arcs.
And my sisters walked away with a terrible experience.
And I am, you know, they are lucky enough that they've played
plenty of games with me so that they know that they like games
that did not turn them off from the world of board games
completely. But if that was the first time
ever going to a game night, they would go, I don't ever want to
go to a game night again, right? You know.
And so there are times I think as board gamers, we think more
about what we want to play instead of what would go over
well with the people coming over that night.
Yeah. And I think it's important to
like consider your audience and to consider what games the
people at the table are going to enjoy.
So that is a great point. I've been thinking about this
question. I'm sad that you're going to be
the first person in the series that I've asked.
I've not asked the previous guest.
So you're introducing a person or a group of people to board
gaming for the first time or have like a top three, what we
call gateway games. You have a top three gateway
games that these are your go TOS to introduce people to the
community. I I do probably have some, but
I'm always gonna ask follow up questions.
Sure, right. If someone's like, I'm
interested in playing some games, I'm like, OK, tell me
about some things you like. What are things you like outside
of board games? Right.
Like if they're like, oh, I like hiking, or I like camping, or I
like knitting or whatever it might be, then I'm going to try
to pick a game that is related to that theme.
Sure. If I'm talking theme list stuff,
Super Mega Lucky Box is one that I really love because it feels
like bingo on steroids. And it's like Gamery bingo and
everybody's played bingo, you know, like it's a game that
everybody has done at some point in their life.
Yeah. And so now it's like, oh, it's
bingable, but with like cascading combinations.
And you're like, I'm gonna cross off this, which is gonna get me
this, which is gonna get me that.
And then you feel like the power of like engine building and and
cast combos. So like, that's one of my
favorite games of all time and a good gateway game.
You know, sometimes, like I'll start with, OK, it's a game that
you like. Everybody knows Monopoly.
Well, Monopoly Deal I think is a much better game.
Gamers love to make fun of Monopoly, but the cart game
version of Monopoly, Monopoly Deal is legitimately fun to play
and plays in 20 to 30 minutes. So it's like you think you hate
Monopoly, but let's try this one, you know?
And that's like a good game for that reason.
I'm not played. I have never played Monopoly
Deal for all the reasons you just described.
Yeah, Monopoly Deal is fun and it literally plays in 20 or 30
minutes, so you know that. Might worth checking out.
Yeah, yeah. And do I think Monopoly Deal is
the greatest game? No.
I'm like, it's not gonna be in my, you know, personal top 50.
But I think it's really good for that type of introduction.
Sure. Absolutely, I totally understand
that. I've been saying this for years
now and all my followers know my favorite game of all time and I
do have a favorite it is Obsession by Dan Halligan I
love. Obsession.
It's a big, big game, though. It is, it is a big game.
And it's not because I think it's the greatest game ever,
like you were just saying, right?
And that's different. I like Obsession because I think
it marries the mechanics that it uses really well with the theme.
And I'm I love theme. I'm all about, it's all about
theme. Yeah.
No matter how much I want to play a Lacerta, I'm not going to
introduce that to new games. Yeah.
It's not going to happen. Yeah, for sure.
So that, that's cool. I love that.
So is there something that maybe
you see that the the community as a whole needs more of and
maybe we're just kind of not that we do it wrong, but this is
a bad thing, but we need more of this behavior, this.
Whatever, No, I mean, I still like, I'm a big proponent of
diversity, especially we're at a time in our society where
diversity is under attack. And so, you know, I still am all
about that. Like you mentioned, there are a
lot more females and a lot more people of color in the industry
than there used to be, but it is still, it could still use more
of that for sure, you know, and so I will I, you know, I am part
of a, an organizing. Committee through Gamma, which
is the sort of board game Trade Organization and I'm part of a
committee and they're called the Horizons Fellowship, which is
trying to, it's like a like a accelerator program for new
publishers from diverse backgrounds and stuff.
So the hobby is making a legitimate effort and I think
that we just need to continue on that, right?
So, so the one question that I ask of myself constantly, and I
naturally ask it of all my friends and content creators,
it's like, So what can we do to like we're like you said
earlier, we're a niche. We're not, we're not mainstream.
How do we get there? How do we get more gamers,
Right? Yes, yeah.
We just need, you know, more people to play games at their
table. I don't know.
What have you done that's been successful in getting new people
to the hobby? Well, I mean, I think Instagram
and TikTok has created, I think YouTube is better for servicing
hardcore gamers, like people that are already gamers and talk
and Instagram world is is good for finding new gamers, creating
new gamers. You know, I'm also trying to do
things like I have a whole hour of stand up all about board
games. And I do that at various places.
That is a thing where like I've done it at comedy clubs where
there are people there that are just there to see a comedy show
and it's funny enough and it's got stories and stuff like that,
that it's, it can stay funny to those people, but also hopefully
brings people into the board game hobby, right?
Like it is about finding cross platforms, right?
Where instead of just your, instead of you're just talking
to current gamers, find ways to talk to other people about
games. You know, hopefully we have some
TV shows that involve games in some way and that gets people.
We're seeing there's a lot more or like video games turned into
tabletop games right now. Hopefully that like pulls some
people in to it. It's it's finding sort of these
ways that you speak to new communities about games that you
like. Right, right.
I guess maybe a month or two ago.
Yeah. So it was episode 135.
This is episode 146. So yeah, it was at 11 episodes
ago, 11 weeks ago. I had the CEO of Katan Studio on
Pete Fan. Yeah, I've told story several
Times Now. One of the things he said.
So he was, he's the guy responsible for getting
convincing Klaus Toiber to bring Katan to the United States in an
English version, right. So this is the guy, right?
He's the guy back in 1997 when he was successful and Katan came
it back then it was Settlers of Katan.
He's like, we want to supplant Monopoly so that when people,
when you're like, oh, I play board games and people like, oh,
do you mean Monopoly? He wants people to be like, do
you mean Katan? It's you could see that's
happening, right, Katan? Yeah, mainly.
Unifying. I think that's a game that's in
the popular lexicon now, like people know it.
Yep. It's referenced more in
television and movies, so yeah, that's a positive.
So yeah, we just got to keep talking about games and yeah,
you know, keep insurance and people and I add Monopoly deal
to the collection. Bringing games to spaces that
like, you know, you see a lot more like breweries right now
are starting to do game. I actually just saw a thing here
in Los Angeles where I live, a board game speed dating.
I don't I yeah, I have not been, but there is a brewery in Los
Angeles that does a monthly board game speed dating event.
Interesting. And so like things like that, I
think they're just, you know, getting games in front of people
that and in front of in in places, right, that aren't
typical for game I. Grant, you need to go and then
yeah, back and tell us about that.
Yeah, Yeah, I think I might at some point.
I. Mean.
I don't know how. Yeah, I'm not exactly sure
either. But you got me thinking about
how do you do speed dating? But but there's a game like Wow,
you just play one hand of Monopoly deal and we know, go
home. Yeah, it's something.
Yeah. I have no idea.
I don't know how many obviously in like a normal speed dating
event, you get like 5 minutes oftentimes boot to another
table. I don't know how it does with
this, you know? That's interesting.
I also feel like that's some good material for your.
Store. Yeah, sure.
Do you still do non board game comedy?
Oh yeah, all the time. Yeah, I've met.
I'm at comedy clubs all over the place.
So I just got back from Calgary, Canada.
I was at the comedy club up there for a while.
So I go. I go all over the place.
That's awesome. So.
So tell everyone where they can find you and everything, because
you're on all the art forms now. Yeah, I handle is grants game
Rex RECS. That was always, that was why I
started making content was just to recommend the games that I
like and that I'm playing and stuff like that.
And so I've always stuck with the recommendations.
So brands Game Rex on TikTok and Instagram and YouTube and stuff.
If you want, you can if you want to see like my regular comedy, I
have like a dry bar comedy special on YouTube's called
Silly Mustache Man. And I've got comedy albums on
Spotify you can listen to and stuff like that as well.
OK, Yeah, I only have consumed your board game related content
and common. So I'm gonna have to give that
a, give that a check out and see so.
Is they're good. I love it.
Thank you. Thank you so much, Grant.
I appreciate it. Of course, taking the time to
chat with me and help me to spread the word and, you know,
nurture, nurture this community, make it better and make it more
diverse, right? Sure.
So would it be everyone, everybody don't forget to hit
that like and subscribe button, right?
We need more listeners so that we can continue to grow the
community and always be kind to each other and let's play more
games. Yeah, I love it.