Hey, and welcome to episode 152 of Meeple to Meeple on today's
episode. This is number 9 in my content
creator community series. Now, joining me today is someone
who can narrate your rule book, DM your campaign, and still beat
you at your own Euro game with Bartik flair.
You've likely seen him on screen.
You've heard him in movies and video games, and now he's out
here performing dramatic monologues about worker
placement like it's Shakespeare in the Park, if the park had a
board game Cafe and a shelf of meeples organized by emotional
trauma. His His IMDb profile is longer
than a Kickstarter launch page translated from three different
languages, and his Instagram proves he's the only human alive
who can deliver flavor text like he's fresh off Broadway.
Today we are talking storytelling, gaming,
creativity, and maybe how do you deliver a soul crushing
monologue from the perspective of a meeple who got left in the
box? And I'm, I'm sorry to say I'm
that sad little meeple left in the box today.
It's Lincoln. Hope the board game barred
himself. Lincoln, how are you?
I'm doing great. That was the greatest
introduction I've ever heard. Oh, thank you, thank you.
That one was easy, but you have you had so much information.
I was like, oh man, I gotta you know it was it was it was
seamless. So thanks.
Thanks. I gotta work on delivery though.
No, it was great. It was great.
So thanks for joining me. I appreciate it, and I'm really
looking forward to hearing your story.
We've been talking with content creators throughout the board
game community. I've been fortunate enough to
talk with a creators of various experience.
I've had some who've been around for a while.
I've had some who've I didn't even realize had only been doing
this for like less than a year, which was really, really
interesting. What was the first game you ever
played as a kid? I remember playing Chutes and
Ladders, I remember playing Clue Life, and I didn't really grab
onto games until I first played Dungeons and Dragons when I was
about 11:00. I was like, there's a whole
world of other stuff besides these games that aren't very fun
or interesting. So it's funny that you mentioned
the game of life in a few weeks ago.
I had Jackie Fox on by the designer of Rock Hard 1977 and
she, she made the comment that, you know, one of her games she
played as a kid was the game of life.
And that taught her was not to go to college, get married or
have children. That's hilarious, and her
rock'n'roll career proved that you can do that right.
Yeah, and then and not only that, she ended up she even she
even she confesses that she ended up getting married at one
point. She did go to college because
she became a lawyer. Yeah.
Is that it's crazy.
It's just amazing. And what I love about the gaming
community, right. It was like we come from all
backgrounds. It's so true, yes, so true.
Even even designers, you know, I'm designing a game and my
design partner does trainings like tutoring and teaching.
It's it's crazy. There's so many people doing so
many different things. So many things, so many things.
And then and then I just recently learned that you're
from Springfield, IL, which is where I live now.
I'm still trying to wrap my brain around that.
It's like people are from here. Yeah, I lived there.
I was born there. And then we packed up and moved
to New Jersey, and I lived there until college.
Yeah. Wow, that's awesome.
So I imagine that's when you were introduced to Dungeons and
Dragons was College in New Jersey?
No, I was, I was 11 and I, we lived in New Jersey.
I went to stay with my grandparents by myself, which I
don't recommend as a 10 or 11 year old, right.
And there was just, it was, I had nothing to do.
I had no friends for like 3 months and some neighbors
invited me over. They said come play this game
with us and it was Dungeons and Dragons and it totally blew my
mind. I can't remember if it was like,
I think it was advanced D&D was the current current one.
And then anyway, that's like first or second edition or one,
yeah, or something. Like that, Something like that.
Yeah. I didn't get into Dungeons and
Dragons until I was in high school.
It was about 17 and this was 3.5, I think.
Yeah, yeah, is when I got into it.
Yeah. Didn't know what it was doing.
I was like, wait, I have a piece of look like a scantron, right,
With all the bubbles, you're filling in circles.
And I'm like, what are we doing? Yeah, it's so it's so complex.
Well, that one was particularly complex.
I mean, I've enjoyed board games more since I've, since I've
started playing, Yeah, board games.
And of course you get with a great group and it's very, it
can be very theatrical and, and that's fun.
And like, you know, board games can't compete with that as far
as having an easy to set up, pained, amazing experience in a
short period of time. I'll I'll go for a board game
just about any day. Yeah, I, I would argue that if
I'm at your, if I'm at your tabletop, if I'm, I'm, I'm
playing a game with you, it's going to be more theatrical,
like D&D. Yeah, right.
I, I love, I love to tell the story.
My favorite game of all time is A Game Obsession by Dan
Halligan. And I love to.
So if you and I and whoever's playing right, and let's say
you're the Yorks, I'm the Howards, our opponent is playing
another family. And they, you know, they go
through their they play their cards and do their events right,
whatever and they bring. And one of the cards is a guess
is American Heiress. And I look to you and I'm like,
and I'm whatever the Lord of your family is.
I mean, have you heard what's going on across the way at the
Cavendish home? You hear that, American heiress?
They had afternoon tea in their Grizzy.
Yeah. I've got a role play when it's
not my turn. Yeah, we.
Played one of the early games that I played as a family,
probably sometime around between 2017 and 2020.
Yeah, we played Sheriff of Nottingham.
Well, that's a good one. I don't know how it happened,
but everyone started playing characters and like when we were
negotiating, you know, it was like my daughter started doing
this crazy voice and then we all started doing this voice.
It was so fun. It added so much to the game.
And you know, it's a fun game, but we still remember that one
time where we're all role played.
Right. 7-8 years ago. It's like so memorable.
Yeah, so fun. So when did when did you get
into the modern gaming hobby and what was the first game that got
you into it? Great question, so I remember
going into game stores looking for dungeons and Dragons dice.
And. And I always like what are all
these games? And I specifically had an
impression that said don't unless you want to buy so many
of these. Because they were.
Bridges like the art, and I obeyed that voice that said to
not dive in. Years later I was doing a
broadcast show, a Dungeons Dragons Twitch show, and we were
recording right next to a hobby store.
I went in. It was just like, man, this
looks amazing. And I found out that, you know,
Wizards of the Coast had a game, I think it was.
It was either rock paper wizard was dungeon mayhem.
OK, So I picked it up, you know, just because it was D&D
adjacent. Yeah, new Wizards of the Coast.
And so we got that. But it's a, you know, it's a
kind of a really light game and my family and I loved it.
And that kind of started like, well, what's another kind of
game that's kind of similar? And so it all just kind of
snowballed from there. We had played Catan with some
friends several times, but it was so isolated that I didn't
know you could go into a game store and buy that and other
games. So it's just like, come over,
we'll play this game called Settlers of Catan.
And, and so I enjoyed that, but we played it every time we went
over their house and it kind of got old really fast.
But you know, at first I really enjoyed it.
It's just, it was never like, let me go out and buy my own
copy or let's go out and buy something similar.
So it was kind of branching out from Dungeons and Dragons that
opened everything up. But what really changed
everything was COVID. Sure.
Like we, I had maybe 20, 20 modern board games, but when
curvid hit and everyone, all my kids came home from college and,
and from where all these places where they were, we started
ordering like what's a Star Wars game the boys will play?
And so we started going on Amazon and like ordering games
and that's what it was like. These are amazing.
So I was buying so many games. It was, it was crazy.
Yeah. So very quickly went to about
100 games, you know, just in the first, I don't know, maybe it
was the first year of COVID. We were just like we were
buying, I was buying them almost faster than we could play them
like two or three times, you know, You know, you know as well
as I do right now, it's like I'm buying 3-4 games at a time and
then they sit on the shelf and you don't even get to them.
Like, I didn't even know. I I remember the first time when
I found out like there was a shelf of shame, I was like, I
was telling someone like, I have like 10 games I haven't even
played yet and they're like, oh, you're shelf of shame.
And I was like, what shelf of shame?
Yeah, we all have them. Yes.
It's like, wow, I, I thought it was just me.
And I much now prefer to call it shelf of opportunity.
That's so much better of a term. We haven't.
We had an entire episode dedicated to how to manage your
unplayed games different and we shared different strategies.
So it was like I. Need to watch that episode like
immediately. You really do.
But here's what I'm going to tell you.
This is going to help you to find it.
It is not the shelf of shame. We really wanted to get away
from that. There should be no shame, right?
We want to get away from that. And then there's the
opportunity. Yes, that's true.
But then I could argue all my board games are an opportunity.
And then there was like the the shelf of shopper tunity is like,
yeah, OK, that's cute, but that means you're shopping for more
games. But because in my professional
life, I'm an archivist, it was really easy.
I was like, you know what it's called?
It's your board game. Backlog, yeah, yeah.
And that is what I call it when I talk to creators.
I'm like, so what's your backlog like?
And they know what I'm talking about.
Even if they haven't seen the episode, they know they know
what I'm talking about. Yeah, I, I will give you, I'll
give you a tip that may or may not help you.
So my wife and I, we were both gamers when we met each other,
got married and we've been together, been together for 18
years, married for 16. We try to play every game in our
collection a minimum of once per calendar year.
I love that. We are currently at 90.9%.
Wow. Played for 2025.
Holy cow. Now here's something really
interesting and unintentional that came out of this.
We've been doing this for about four years now.
We have discovered that 300 is the number we try to maintain a
collection of 300 games, no more, no less.
Although that sometimes fluctuates obviously, but that's
where we try to keep our collection is about 300.
Because if you got 1000 or more, that plan's never going to work.
Yeah. You know it's.
True. It's true.
But if you've got a family that's playing with you, then
you could do it. Yeah, it's pretty great.
I mean, I almost never play with other groups and it's not it.
It's just because I've got my family here, right?
It's so easy. I enjoy playing with them and
I'm not against playing with other people.
That's true. That's what we do when we go to
conventions. Like I'm like so fun to play
with other people. But it's also it's hard to
schedule stuff. It's much easier to say, hey,
let's play right now. Right now, Yep.
And there we go. That's funny that you mentioned
that. I I love that you and your wife
were both into board games already, because my wife before
we met, had always played board games growing up much more often
than I had, OK. And I don't think she had played
any really serious modern board games, But when we first got
married, she was always like, let's play some games.
I was like, I don't want to play board games.
And that was me, right? And, and it took me discovering
them by myself, like I every Christmas I would get her a
board game and then I would be forced to play it with her.
You know, I knew I knew I was buying into this, but I knew
that's one of the things she wanted.
Sure. But but I was buying these board
games from, you know, Walmart or something where it's just like,
here's the board game aisle. And it was just kind of, you
know, mass market games. And, and she still loves playing
games, but I exhaust her with how often I want to play.
Like I want to play non-stop. I want to play games, games,
games, games. And you know, I, I have
reviewing responsibilities and Kickstarter preview
responsibilities. And although it's great, you get
to play the play a new game to learn the game, then you have to
spend, you know, 2-3 days, four days, whatever it is on the
production side, which is much less fun in one way, but I
enjoy, I enjoy filmmaking. So it's also good, but it's
it's, it's less fun than playing games, so.
That lends me to a question. So I've got to ask How do you
maintain your joy pushing through all those review
responsibilities? Because I have conversations all
the time with content creators and you hear them talk about I
don't even get to play games I want to anymore because I'm
playing games for review purposes.
It's a relationship, yeah. Sure.
What do you do to maintain that level of joy that you want to go
to the get to the table all the time?
Well, first of all, I try to only request or accept games
that I really think I'm going to enjoy.
So I. Gatekeep.
I gatekeep reviews as much as possible, much more so now than
I used to, because there's just not enough time.
There's just not enough time. So I'm I'm setting myself up for
joy. And one of the reasons I was
buying so many games during COVID is because I love, love,
love, love the experience of playing a new game.
I love it as much as learning it.
Like especially with heavy games, but learning can be
really tedious, but the excitement of discovering how it
works and like that second play, you know, with the complex game,
like half or 3/4 of the way through, you're like, I think I
get it. It's too.
Right to. Win.
And then on that second game, it's still new, it's still
exciting, but you're like, yes, I love that new experience.
So I really love getting and playing new games and the
bottleneck is time. The bottleneck is so much time.
But I, I also have a very childlike love of playing games.
Like my wife is like, I don't like this game as much and I'm
like, you haven't played it enough or she, she's like, this
is not a good game. And I'm like, but the thing here
where you're doing this, like I can really appreciate 1 mechanic
in a game that may not be great, but like, I'm like, this
mechanic is great and I love it. And if the art is great, it's
like, I love this game even though, you know, I'll look it
up on BGG and it's like, oh, it's like not rated very well.
What's wrong with me that I like it so much, you know, but I
just, I I'm able to enjoy the experience.
Another this is kind of not exactly answering your question,
but it's related in that my wife likes to win and I like to play,
so. OK.
I can literally enjoy a gaming experience where I'm getting
slaughtered. Sure.
And just. Not have.
A problem with that, whereas my wife, like I'll sometimes let
her win or yeah, it's purposely not don't.
Don't say that too loud. She, she doesn't like that, but
I also I make a lot of mistakes, like I'll forget to do stuff.
We talked a little briefly about neurodivert divergent.
I'm very scatterbrained. I'm very ADHD and I will miss
moving up my points, but I'll also miss reducing points.
And so my wife kind of is like, did you remember to lose 2
points for that? I was like, Nope, thank you.
But there's just something about the mechanics and the theme of
games that makes it so that I could be humiliated in a loss,
you know, which I recently, and I just still love it.
So I so I can really find joy in just about any game I play.
Even if it's not a great game, I can find something that I
appreciate. I think that's part of my
optimistic attitude, but also I don't I don't think things are
worth doing if you're not going to enjoy them.
So I try to find a way to enjoy the things that I have to do,
like even putting away the dishes.
I can gamify that, or I can make that into a creative act and
really enjoy that, which is really related to my acting
career. I took a huge turn where
auditions can be really anxiety creating and not fun and can be,
you know, people look at them as rejection and, and especially
like if you have to memorize 30 pages in two days to do these,
these auditions, like it can be overwhelming and not fun.
And someone said something that turned to the switch.
It basically my change was I'm going to enjoy every audition I
do and that changed everything. Conscious chores.
To enjoy this thing that hasn't been fun for me changed
everything. And so I now try to like if I
have to do something I don't want to do, I find a way to
enjoy it. So that's that's.
Really. Hack for me.
Yeah, that's really good. That's really good life advice.
Like I'm just listening to you and I'm like, I should probably
do that more in my life. I would be, I would be much
happier in my day-to-day at home with the chores, things I don't
want to do. It really.
That's good. Really is a wonderful way to
live. And I'll, I'll give you one more
hack if you want to pursue that. I, you know, it started with
like, I can't remember how it started, but it was like, you
know, envision a great day or look forward and plan on having
a great day. And there was just a point where
I was like, that's great advice. But when I started saying, like
in the first thing in the morning, this is a great day, no
matter how I felt, I was able to prove myself right.
I was, you know, I can consciously say today is going
to be amazing and then make make the day amazing and I don't have
to do anything different. And because I'm having a great
day and I'm my intention is to have a great day, it makes it so
much easier to say this is for my own good and for my own
experience. So yay, I learned a little
lesson today that I don't have to repeat in two years or two
months that living intentionally in way of like today is freaking
amazing. Like the more I decide that
today is amazing, the more amazing it is because I don't do
this every day, right? But if I double down and think
today's going to be freaking amazing, it is.
Awesome. There is something to that
intentionality. And so when I dropped my
daughter off for school, I've only got 11 left at at home, I
say have a great day. Or like, you know, you can make
your day great. And like, she's like, yeah, Dad,
but she'll come home and sometimes I'll ask her how was
it? It's like it was great.
You were right, Dad. Which they hardly ever want to
admit. True, very true.
So intentionality. I'm so glad you brought that up.
And I want to talk about that is I'm really interested in the
story about, so it's 2020 COVID, we're locked down.
You're buying a lot of games, you're playing with your family.
At some point you transitioned just a casual gamer to being a
content creator, right? And we, we've talked a lot about
what's the distinction? And I think it's intentionality,
right? Is you're not just posting a
photo to share, you're being intentional about the content
you're putting out in the world. Tell me about that story, about
what I mean. What?
What was that like and what like?
What made you decide to do that? Yeah, that's a great question.
I have been making social media videos.
I guess it's probably been 10 years, but it's all been comedy
or, you know, acting plugs like, hey, I'm in so and so.
But which by the way, I am in the absolute number one TV show
slash movie of all times this week.
I'm in the most popular show. I only have one line and I'm
only two themes and I don't recommend you watch it, but I
was tickled to death when I found out the number one most
popular according to Internet movie Database IMDb number one.
It's season 3 of Monster and again, I do not recommend it.
Ordinary board gamer watching he was like, I kind of wish I
hadn't seen it. You know, my scene is
interspersed with with some really gory OK imagery.
So at some point I'll post my little clip.
But but anyway, so that that's just it's really cool right now
if you go look it up. Absolutely.
Wrong. It's #1.
Check it out. Meter.
But anyway, I was promoting, you know, I would I would go on and
say, hey, I'm in this show, watch it out, you know, come
watch it or it's on such and such.
It's on CBS, it's on ABC. Or I would just do comedy
videos. So I was used to having
producing a lot of stuff. Just there was a time where I
was putting out a video or two a day, posting to TikTok.
And you know, there came a point at which I was like, why don't I
use the same skills for board games?
And I don't know why it took me so long to come around to it.
Part of it was like, I don't know if I want to make my
passionate hobby into work, which that's absolutely a trade
off, as you know. Yeah, there's some fun that's
removed from games because like, I have to play this again to
give it another shake because I didn't enjoy it that much.
But I want to make sure I've covered the bases.
And I'm just like, honey, we have to play this game, you
know? And she's like, because I'm
saying that we have to because I do, but I need to say it.
I need to say it better. But honestly too.
We get to play it. That's right.
I was spending so much money on Kickstarters.
My wife was saying you can't do this.
You can't. I mean, I was spending my own
film money. She didn't say you can't do
this, but she was like, I need you to, you should watch more
carefully what you're spending. And, and when I looked at it was
like, it was a lot, you know, two 150 for this Kickstarter,
200 plus $40 shipping for that one and, and all that stuff.
And, and that's when like this thought came into my mind or she
said it, I don't remember what it was.
Like what if you review them and have review copies sent, which I
think most content creators, whether they want to admit that
or not, was a thought that played through their head.
And, you know, I wish I could say it was like completely like,
let's make some game content, but it was really like, I can't
do this. And it was just kind of like,
well, there's this world where people want you to play their
games and want you to write stuff about it or post stuff
about it. So that's kind of when I started
thinking more seriously about that.
And then, you know, acting world and board game world came
together. And I do really enjoy it.
I really enjoy getting games that I would never have picked
off off a shelf, you know, but like a publisher will e-mail me
and say, are you interested in this?
I'll look it up on, on BGG and I'll look at the pictures and
I'll read the synopsis like this sounds really interesting.
And so I'm, I'm exposed to games that I would not pick just based
on the cover in the game store, you know, which is fantastic
because that's how I learned. I, I love so many mechanics I'd
never heard of before. Right.
Just I and plus combined with the fact that I love new games.
So it's all just kind of a happy, it's a happy place where
everything kind of converges and works, works together in in my
favor and the publishers favor in most cases.
Sure. Yeah.
I, I don't do, I kind of pride myself on this.
I don't do top ten lists, I don't do reviews.
But what I do want is probably something your most valuable
asset and that's your time because I want you to come on
the show and talk to me for an hour.
But I feel like when I'm talking to publishers or first time
designers, there's less pressure for me.
Like I just need you to sit down and talk about your game for an
hour. And who knows it better than
you, right? But it has afforded me and I'm
very fortunate. I am very fortunate that my wife
shares this passion too. We love play testing.
We love to play test, right? We discovered that that was a
real thing. We discovered it together at
Gencon in 2021, I think it was. And so now like just the other
night, we got a game delivered to the house.
It's a prototype. And I'm like, Oh yeah, we're
going to have to play that with our local group here.
So when I say we have to play a game, it's we have to play test
it because they don't let us keep the prototype forever,
right, Right. But we've really come to enjoy
that. And that's a big selling point
because she and I look at games very differently.
I look at the theme. How does the theme?
How do I feel? I'm all about the experience.
She's all about the rule book. How easy is it to set up?
And those are really important things for a designer.
And so we get we get to share that too, which is kind of
really. Well-rounded.
Yeah. Feedback that you guys can give.
Yes. And as fellow creatives, we
understand the value of feedback.
So we want to make sure the feedback we're giving to you is
constructive, you know? And so, yeah, so that's that's a
lot. That's a lot of fun.
So do you have this question I've been asking everyone?
It's in two parts. It's in two parts because the
first part is or can be rather difficult.
Do you have a favorite board game of all time?
If you don't, If you don't because see, I'm full.
I believe in compassion and love for my fellow man and woman.
That's why there's a second part to this question.
If you don't have a favorite of all time, do you have a favorite
today that's just hitting your table a lot right now?
You know, that's a great, that's a great follow up question
because tag team is a new Hachette game.
OK. And it's just, it's a little
card programmer dueling game. It's so light and so fun And
it's got like 16 characters or 12 characters in the box.
And so every time you play it, you have a different
combination. In fact, each, each player plays
2 characters. And OK, it's, it's light, but
it's so fun because it's short. I, I can't stop playing it.
And another one that goes right with it because I'm I'm doing a
video comparing the 2 is Neon Knight.
I don't know that I'm familiar. They're very similar.
It's it's another dueling game and that one's by Manny
Tremblay. Have been playing less euro
games lately. Euro games are my favorite.
I mean, that's, that's what I love.
I'm just looking this up so I can.
King of the Euro games of Utah. Lacerda, right?
You're not going to believe it. I do not think I have ever
played a Lacerda game. That's disappointing because I
was going to ask you if you backed Speak Easy.
It's coming out shortly, should be arriving soon.
And that's his new one coming out and we're really excited
about it. We did an entire episode just on
Laserda's games trying to get him on the show, but you know,
he's a, he's an. Important man.
And and so I obviously I have to play, but I'll tell you this
too. I skew to medium weight games.
OK. And I believe his games tend to
be heavier, yes. And so that since I've become a
more serious, heavier board gamer, that is the first thing
that I look at is how long is this going to take me to learn
to play? Can I get it to the table?
It's neon rain, by the way. OK.
Neon Game Chip Theory is Co producing it OK with Manny's new
board game company Neon Night Games.
And so just as a reminder for everyone who's listening, you're
comparing tag team to neon rain, rain, neon rain.
And Neon Rain is they're both, I mean, they come in almost the
same size box. They're totally different, but
they're both dueling games and Neon Rain is kind of like you.
The cards are joysticks, like you're doing combos like up, up
button. And so it's really clever.
They both play so quickly that it's, I think one of the reasons
I got hooked on both of these so quickly was because you can play
three games in the space of 45 minutes.
And so my wife beats me. I'm like again and we'll play
again, and then we're both like again, right, For both of those
games. Sure.
There's really something, interestingly enough, I think
that ties into the the conversation about Lacerta and
heavier games. Because I'm looking up
Speakeasy, I must have played some of his other games.
You've had to. And that's like when it takes 4
hours to learn and play a game. It's so hard.
It's so hard to program that in. I've always wanted to play
Lisboa because I I lived in Lisbon, I lived in Portugal.
I've requested House of Fato for the same reason.
Portugal. I've wanted to play on Mars.
On Mars. I've wanted to play Weather
Machine. Bot Factory is kind of a
lightweight entry. I think that's a lighter weight.
I backed that and I ended up not getting it fulfilled.
So anyway. That happens.
I know this is a a lacking of mine, but again.
It's OK. Those heavy games, they're just
so hard and, and when I'm, when I'm getting review copies, like
that's kind of my, I'm not looking at heavy games unless
someone's saying we review this. OK, sure.
Then I have to decide if it's above a four on board Game Geek,
I probably won't be able to get to it right?
Well, it just means that you have a, you have a lens that
you're looking at board games through.
And so you have to be selective because like you said, our time
is, our time is limited. So let's talk about the
community. I, I want to, I want to get your
opinion on what, what is the one thing in your mind that makes
our community so great? What is it that we do so well
that you're proud to be a part of it?
I don't know if I'm exactly answering the question.
OK. But there's something about the
shared story. There's something about when I
look at you and I know you play board games and you tell me
you're into theme, part of me leaps, part of me, that part of
me that resonates in the same way, like instantly makes me
feel like I know you because you love something that I love as
well. So there's something about that
in the community. When someone says I played such
and such and I liked it and I liked it, I feel like I know
that person, even if it's just in a small way.
And so when and that, that doesn't mean we can't have
differences of opinion. In fact, sometimes those
differences of opinion shed more light on similarities and
contrast, which is so interesting.
I think my most, my most, it used to be my most popular
YouTube video because I'm newer to YouTube, was my SETI review
where I start off by saying I hate, I hated this game, you
know? And then people are like, what?
And then I go through why I hated it and why I played it
again and again and again because everyone loved it.
And I was like, there are people out there that I know and trust
or whose opinions I look up to. They liked it.
What am I missing? And in listening to their voices
and my wife was like, I'm not playing this again.
And I was telling you, look at the, you know, this reviewer
loves it. They love it.
They so many people love it. But there was something about
being able to reach out and watch people's videos that made
me feel like there was something more that I wasn't getting.
And like I said, on that second play, I liked it more.
On that third play, I loved it. And so there's just something
about you like a game. It looks terrible to me.
You say you like it, you tell me a little bit about it.
And there's something about that exchange that makes me go off
and have my own experience that I love.
Yes, yeah. So that's what came to mind, and
I know it doesn't necessarily answer the question or I'm
answering the question in my own ways.
Which is fine. But it's really that that
connection and I love, I love sitting down at conventions and
playing with other people, but I do feel like so much of the
connection that I value transfers through the camera,
right? And so when you're doing a
podcast and I watch your podcast and I relate, that can be, can
be deeper than sitting across the table and playing together,
right? Sure.
Because so and so, you know, so and so reviewer is pouring out
their heart about what they love about this game that resonates
in a deep way with me, right? Even if I'm like, wow, I love
that they love that I hated it. I feel like I know you a little
better. I know where we're different,
you know? Sure.
So that's what I call like a shared story, like we're sharing
your story resonates with my story.
Even though they're different stories, there's a there's a
connection between our our experiences.
And our social stories, I think, I think if Socrates, Socrates
once said the unexamined life is not worth living.
I think if Socrates were alive today and he was a board gamer,
he would say the unexamined board games not worth playing.
I truly believe he would say that.
Right. Alternatively, I've recently
been thinking about this. So the Roman orator Cicero, who
I quote constantly on the show. So Cicero said that a room
without books is like a body without a soul.
Yeah. And I think he if he were alive
today in a board gamer, I think he would say the same thing.
He would seem to the come come to the same conclusion about
humanity and our shared stories. And he would say that a room
without board games is like a body without a soul.
The I feel like board games, board games are the connection
that are the building blocks of our culture and the
conversations and the laughter. That's the glue that holds us
all together and, and and unites us, right?
Yeah. And we can't have unity, which
is a message we need right now. We can't have unity without
diversity. That's right.
They go hand in hand, Yeah, you know.
Yeah. So.
I feel like I love what you said and and the way that my brain
interpreted it. Or tell me the tell me the
sister will quote again with board game substituted in there.
A room without board games is like a body without a soul.
Yeah, I truly feel like every board game, and some do it much
better than others, is a whole world within a box.
Oh, absolutely. And so when a game delivers on
that like 100% or 150%, like I'm on that crazy scale, like an
average game may deliver 80% on being a different world.
But when a game delivers a new world for me in a box, like an
experience of a world that I've never imagined or never seen
before, or even a world like Star Wars, you know, a Star Wars
game, a world that I already know and enjoy, there's just
something magical about that. There's something magical.
You know, I've got some, I've got some of my favorites back
here, like Wingspan. I resisted Wingspan for like a a
year or two. Like who wants to play a game
about birds? Not this guy.
Like literally. And, and again, going back to
community, so many people said they loved it.
So many people said they liked it for this reason.
They loved it for that reason that I was like, you know what,
I'm going to trust, I'm going to trust all these people.
And I went out and got it and everyone in my family loved it,
some more than others. But like there's a world of
birds that I didn't know existed in that game, just from the art,
the flow over text, the wingspan measurements.
And you know, there's an app where you hold it up to the card
and it you hear the tweeting of the bird, you know, whatever.
Like there's literally a world within the box.
I know, I know. So I.
Just love. That and that poor going back to
my introduction, that poor little meeple that got left in
the box, right. That's right.
So what let me ask you, the
flip, here's the flip side. Is there any, is there anything
that you've seen? And if so, what is it?
You see, the community maybe needs more work, right?
Just gets wrong or just has room for improvement.
Because I think in order for an individual, a community of
individuals, to get better, we have to recognize, you know,
maybe we need to do better at this thing.
Wow, I have not thought of this. So my mind instantly went to
certain creators who are very much in a minority who can be
unkind either to I have much less of a concern about them
being unkind to a game because if they hate a game and they're
a blunt person, great, say that. But but again, there are some,
there are some creators that are unkind to other creators.
And I really don't enjoy that. And but again, it's so it's such
a minority that, and I mean publicly unkind in their posts
or in their videos, but it's such a, it's such a minority
that, that it almost doesn't bear saying because everyone
probably agrees, you know, why be mean?
Because you get, you get views and controversies.
So I, I do think that's a, that's a interesting subway
Segway and subway I'm hungry Segway that I've taken there
because content creator wise, and this is how I'm connected to
most other gamers. Like I don't have a game
community here besides a few friends.
So I'm talking mostly about content creators.
I don't. I don't like that views and
likes and comments and algorithms are a gatekeeper
between creators and other creators and other viewers who
would totally resonate with the content.
Like Instagram knows that so and so would love my content, but
it's going to prioritize someone with way more videos put out.
I'm not even talking about views.
I'm talking about like someone. Who's put out?
200 videos. The algorithm knows their style
better and can recommend them better, but it prioritizes that.
So anyway, the algorithm has also favored me at times so it's
it's a toss up, but I just never like when an art or an opinion
is filtered through a machine. Right.
And right, it's the way it's got to be, but I just don't.
I wish that could change. And I don't have any suggestions
just besides in our board game community, we are.
We are completely filtered by the people who have the most
followers, the most views. And there's so many, like I,
I've gone to several Instagram accounts where it's like, I've
seen the most amazing board game photography and the person
started like 6 months ago and they've got like 25 followers.
And I'm like, how are people not finding this photography?
Maybe other people don't like pretty board game photography.
But like I, I'll try to share. Repost.
Now you can repost and that kind of stuff or do a story, you
know, with that, with their, some of their work.
But anyway, that's just to say that it's so heartbreaking to
see someone with such talent who I know they're going to have to
stick it out for another two years to really get any
traction. It's it's really interesting.
I've been doing it for two years.
Sure, you just have to just have to stick with.
It's, it's really interesting as a podcaster, I have this
conversation with my friends all the time.
I don't view myself as a content creator.
Now I create content. So by definition I'm a content
creator, but I see myself as a podcaster, right?
Because I don't do what everyone else is doing right?
I'm more interested in talking to you about you and the games
you love and when are you going to be in Springfield so we can
play a board game together, right?
Yes, You know that. That's what I I'm here for the
people and the relationships and the board games is the
connection that allows me to nurture the community in my own
little way. So the number that's really
important to me, it's not subscribers, it's not followers,
it's reach. Because at the end of the day, I
can have a great message. I can elevate the conversation
and introduce you and quote Cicero and Socrates and Plato
and CS Lewis till I'm blue in the face.
But if no one's listening, then I'm just talking to the wall,
right? So that's the, that's the number
I or that the, the analysis I'm really interested in.
The problem is it's directly connected to the subscribers and
all that crazy jazz. So yeah, so the community's at
the whim of this algorithm and we do what we can do.
And you know what? I, I I don't want to be all down
on it because at the same time the same mechanism and the same
platforms have brought us together.
Yes, right, right if it. Wasn't for the algorithm.
It wasn't for Instagram. If it wasn't for this, you and I
wouldn't have connected as well as all these other wonderful
creators and and board gamers. So it works both ways.
It does. I, I'm very, I'm very aware of
that. It really does.
It does hurt to see with someone who's so talented and they've
got something to say, but they just can't.
They can't ride it out for a year, for years because it is
hard. It is heartbreaking to post
something and then no one sees it.
Just like no. Why am I posting?
Right, Why am I posting? So you've got, what do you, what
advice do you have for someone who's thinking about joining
this community? And they're like, I'm going to,
I'm going to be brave. I'm going to be vulnerable.
I'm going to put myself out there.
I want to make content. I want to do what you do.
What do you tell them? I mean, I think the first
somebody asked me just recently and the first thing I told them
was exactly what we were just talking about.
If you want to do this, you have to know that unless you get
extremely lucky or tap into some formula that either nobody else
has done or that everybody else is doing, but you can do it
better. It's going to take you a year.
It's going to take you 2 years to just get to the point where
it feels like it's making sense. You know, like I've, so that's
a, that's a big thing. I've only just now gotten to the
point where like publishers are getting in touch with me that my
numbers don't justify, right? Like my follower counts and
views don't justify but they're like we saw your video on this.
Yeah. We want you to make one for us
that just like you can't necessarily put that out in your
first month of making content, you know?
So there's a, there's a. Curve.
There's a learning curve. The connections will also take
years. I've had, I've been doing this
for just over 2 years and there's still some publishers
who will not even response to my emails, you know, and it's like
this in every industry, you know, there's just, there's
people who are like, but and you know, I know when I hit 10,000
here or whatever. They will.
Return my e-mail. And again, I'm not saying
they're bad people for that because it's a numbers game.
We were talking about time before, you know, so and so at
at huge company, they don't have time to open everybody's e-mail.
So I get it. But you have to know going in
that it can be you are building something from the ground up,
yes. And it's going to take, it's
going to take a long time. Yeah.
So I have a story I want to share with you, which I'm now
going to share with my listeners as well, because I have some
dedicated listeners. Yeah, you get to hear it first.
So it was over the summer, and at some point, my wife and I
watched the documentary. It was about Jaws celebrating
its 50th anniversary. And there was, like, all these
interviews with Steven Spielberg.
And I was like, that would be a cool episode if I get Brian
Kirk, the designer of Jaws, who got the license for it through
Robinsburger, right. If I could get him on the show.
I was talking to our good friend Craig from Get Into Games and
he's like, no, just have Steven Spielberg come on your podcasts.
No, I'm not having Steven Spielberg on the show.
I wish I could. I wish I could say that, but
this is your point, right? So I know, I know that I'm not
going to get to e-mail Steven Spielberg directly and he's
going to respond. That's absurd.
But he has people. Oh, there was another, there was
a game designer who came on the show who like, it's like, well,
look, I've got, I've got this, these contacts and sent me these
emails. So I emailed all of them, you
know, at Amblin Entertainment. And I'm like, hi, this is who I
am with my 2000 followers. And I would like to have Steven
Spielberg come on the show and talk about this board game that,
you know, I thought it'd be cool to have him and Brian Kirk on so
you could get that, that juxtaposition of board game
designer and movie director talking about this board game.
Like that's how I envisioned this episode going, right?
I so I did get a response from Amblin Entertainment to say
you've emailed the wrong people, here's the right person to
e-mail. And so I did e-mail that person,
but like you just said, I've got no response.
You know, and my life is so much better when I started looking at
it like those people have just as limited time as I do.
And you know, if my personal TikTok channel has like 500,000
followers, I don't even look at the, I don't even look at my
messages. I can't.
There's like if I've got a video that's popular, it could be like
20-30, fifty, a hundred a day. I can't.
Like there's just not time. And so when I realized that like
this person doesn't have anything against me.
They don't hate me, they just don't have the time and they
have to set filters right. So that that made me happier to
to realize that like so and so. And that's like a goal, you
know, so and so a publisher will they'll they'll respond my to my
emails same day when I've, you know, kept built my building
myself up, you know, but it's true, Yeah.
Yeah, I think what I need to do is reach out to George Lucas in
2027, when Star Wars is 50 years old and like, the new hot Star
Wars board game is up. He's retired.
He's he's done. He could talk to me for an hour.
That's right. Oh, here's another tip that that
I know can come in handy. And it sounds like, oh, you do
your research on stuff, but if you can find some weird tangent
that you have in common, it's a lot easier to get some of these
people on your show. Like a silly example is, I can't
think of a specific example, but like so and so who's an A list
actor but has a son who loves this board game is way more
likely to come on your show and say, yeah, you know, I'm not
going to charge you my usual $50,000 fee.
But like, my son will see this. He will, you know, he those kind
of connections like if you can find those that really can help
you jump the line fast. Right, right.
That's. In the film world, that's how a
lot of my friends have gotten a hold of these famous actors who
would never ever consider, you know, for example, I, I have
some friends who just did a World War 2 movie and they were
able to get in touch with Tom Hanks because they know that Tom
Hanks loves World War 2 and has made a ton of World War 2
movies. So that was their angle and they
got in touch with this people and they were able to they were
able to connect. So those kinds of things, you
know, it's the same thing with publishers, right?
If you research their games and you e-mail them and say, hey,
Windmill Valley is like my favorite game of all times.
Love you guys. Thank you for creating this.
You know, just a compliment or something can can go a long way
too. And if you don't do your
research you won't know. That's true.
Last emails, I think. I think that your advice just
now is directly connected to your your earlier thesis about
the shared story, right? Yeah.
You're right. I think that's what you're
talking about. Maybe, maybe I don't have a
shared story with Steven Spielberg, but I've got a shared
story with his son or his grandson, and that would help.
I think that's what you're talking about.
Yeah. So see, guys, I say it all the
time, Cicero said. All the humanities are
inherently linked as if by a common bond.
I prove it to you every week. I prove this deal one.
We'll see. We'll see.
I. Love it.
Yes. So there you go.
So Lincoln, tell everyone if they're if they want to reach
out to you, how can they find you?
What's your preferred platform and all all the socials?
Yeah, so I bounce back and forth from platforms, but I am the
game Bard on Instagram, YouTube and TikTok.
I'm really right now my YouTube is the smallest and now it's the
fastest growing just because for the last six months I've been
hitting it really hard. But I, I think I check Instagram
messages the most. You can also e-mail me at
lincoln@thegamebard.com. And if you want to look at my
other silly wacky videos, it's just at Lincoln Hope and that's
with 2P Shoppe and that's my secular non board game channel.
Secular meaning non board game. And yeah, that those, those are
probably the best ways. And always you should look me up
on IMDb because people get a kick out of that.
They're like, you know, I didn't know he was in stuff.
I saw that. Oh my gosh, he was the guy that
that you know, it's really fun. So just go to imdb.com, type in
my name, Lincoln Hope with two PS It's it'll show you a list of
everything I've been in and I bet you've seen or played a game
or I narrate audio books too. So I get people now and then
saying, you know, I just heard such and such.
You narrated it, you know, like I really, I really enjoy hearing
that. So feel free to reach out
anytime, you know, either on Instagram again, I check the
most or for sending me an e-mail 'cause I, I do enjoy hearing
that you saw something that I was in or you listen to a book.
I love that stuff. Or you enjoyed such and such a
video, you know, leave a comment.
Yes. I'm reading everything, all my
comments on YouTube right now and because it's definitely one
of the ways that you grow. And so I'm reading and
responding to every comment. So if you if you want to watch
one of my videos there and respond, is there even a way to
direct message people on YouTube?
If there is, I haven't found it, but I look at the comments and I
love getting them. I love responding to them.
So yeah. Yeah, I'm the same.
I'm the same way. With that in mind guys please
make sure to like and subscribe to the YouTube channel leave
comments I also I read them all. Y'all don't send me a lot of
comments so it's easy but I love the comments and I read them all
make sure so as always. If you're not getting enough.
That is the reality. I am not.
I'm not controversial because I'm trying to nurture unity, and
I don't know. I don't know what's more
controversial than unity. I mean, who knows?
But yeah. But as always, guys, Lincoln,
thank you so much for joining me.
Be kind to each other. Be kind to each other and let's
play more games. I'm in.