1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,840 Welcome to Maple to Maple, uniting players around the 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:06,640 world, a 30 minute exploration of TJ and Gareth's four-game 3 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:09,480 experiences from across both sides of the Atlantic. 4 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:12,720 Each episode they share their thoughts and opinions on the 5 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,280 world of four games, including their favorite themes, games, 6 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:23,200 hot topics, and much, much more. Hey guys, welcome to Episode 88 7 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:27,760 Preview and Play Testing, one of our favorite topics today. 8 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,960 So we're going to talk about. So, as always, I remain PJ. 9 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,680 And I am still Gareth Episode 88. 10 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:40,520 I know. I know, talking, talking, play, 11 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,040 testing something that is dear to your heart. 12 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,040 I love play testing man. You do, and I will get into that 13 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,240 because I I don't play test so much. 14 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,400 I'm really picky. And you are, you play test 15 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:54,520 anything. Yeah, you're easy. 16 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:57,320 I got to tell you, that's partially, that's partially 17 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,480 Katie's influence too. So let's be fair, she enjoys a 18 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,800 good play testing. So it's another thing that we do 19 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:05,519 together. Yeah. 20 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:10,520 So I think, I think, I mean I've over my ball gaming life. 21 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:13,560 We have played, we have play tested. 22 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:17,720 I guess play tested means you are trying a game that's not yet 23 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:19,240 finished. Right. 24 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:23,520 But sometimes it's it's a scrap of paper and it's an idea. 25 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,240 Other times, it's nearly the finished article. 26 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:30,400 I've seen a lot of. Publisher want some feedback? 27 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,640 Yeah. So certainly the UK Games Expo, 28 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:36,840 there's the, I'm going to call it the Playtest Zone. 29 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:38,880 It's probably got a better name than that, right? 30 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,160 And you, I think you've said before that Gen. 31 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:45,280 Con is in particular is cool. The IT is the. 32 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:47,200 You do a whole day, don't you? Don't you? 33 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,280 No. So the entire all four days of 34 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,680 Gen. Con from like 8:00 AM to 35 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:57,920 midnight is the first exposure play test call. 36 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,560 And how long would you spend in there versus the rest of? 37 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:07,600 She do like So what you do is you sign up in advance for two 38 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:13,600 hour blocks, right? And then you and I were talking 39 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,040 about this before recording. So if this is interesting, I 40 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:17,440 guess this is where we're going to start, right? 41 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,520 So when you go, so you sign up in advance, which is perfect 42 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:22,560 because Gen. Con's coming up soon. 43 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,000 So you would sign up for whatever time you want, and you 44 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,160 can sign up for as many as you want, right? 45 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,160 We like to sign up for the 8:00 AM slot. 46 00:02:31,640 --> 00:02:35,560 That way we're in the play test hall, we're occupied. 47 00:02:35,640 --> 00:02:38,720 We're getting to see a game in some form of development. 48 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,200 When we get out at 10:00 AM, the vendor hall opens and then we 49 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:43,800 get to walk right into the vendor. 50 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:45,640 Hall instead of waiting. Outside. 51 00:02:45,640 --> 00:02:47,160 Yeah, yeah. No, it's. 52 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:48,960 Going to use our time productively. 53 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:53,040 We have scheduled two or three in a day, right? 54 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,280 So we've done that. But what's what's really cool. 55 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:01,440 So you sign up in advance and then you stand in line and you 56 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:05,040 draw a number, right? And they break it up into two 57 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:10,640 categories. One is tabletop board games, the 58 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:12,880 other one is tabletop role-playing games. 59 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,320 I have never, I have never played tested a role-playing 60 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,640 game. I don't know what that looks 61 00:03:19,640 --> 00:03:25,600 like, but but they do it. And I have to say, kudos to 62 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:32,800 first Exposure because some of the designers are, they have 63 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:39,320 specific social aggregate requirements of their play 64 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:43,320 testers and they're upfront about that. 65 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,360 Meaning what does that, what does that mean, PJ? 66 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:49,600 Yeah. What does that mean, PJ? 67 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:50,840 Thank you. Thank you. 68 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:52,200 Thank you, Gareth. That's a good question. 69 00:03:54,760 --> 00:04:00,880 They want only women, or they want only children under the age 70 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:06,600 of 16, or they only want players who are transgender, or they 71 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,960 only want players who are of some sort of social aggregate. 72 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,760 And is that before you draw that is lottery ticket? 73 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:19,040 Before you draw, so you know well you you get your number 74 00:04:19,079 --> 00:04:20,000 right away. Right. 75 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:20,640 Yeah, OK. But. 76 00:04:20,959 --> 00:04:23,600 But then on the table there's a bunch of descriptions of games, 77 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,280 and those descriptions include that, right? 78 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,680 OK, OK. But there's no mention of like 79 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:35,160 let's say I have I don't like space games, and then I end up 80 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,720 playing a space game with my unconscious bias of not liking 81 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:43,800 space games be useful to a designer or would. 82 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,000 Yes, it would. It would. 83 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,800 Yes, absolutely, totally would. Even though I'm having a rubbish 84 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,280 time because I hate space games, I need to go with a different 85 00:04:53,280 --> 00:04:54,800 mindset then I think is what you're saying. 86 00:04:55,040 --> 00:05:00,120 Yes, if I design A space game, a space theme game, and you don't 87 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:05,240 like space themes, but you might love tile placement or you might 88 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:09,240 like deck building or whatever, you still have something to 89 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:14,360 contribute to me to help me in my design process, right? 90 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,880 Because you, I think. That's the difference is, is 91 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,640 that if I, if I'm going to go and play games, I go and find 92 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,880 games like in the vendor hall or I'm going to go into, you know, 93 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:25,840 open gaming. If I'm going, if I'm going to do 94 00:05:25,840 --> 00:05:29,080 play testing, I think what you're saying is I have to have 95 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:33,760 a different mindset, which is I'm going to help and test 96 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,040 games, which may or may not be games I'd normally choose, but 97 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:40,920 it's more feeding back to designer on experience. 98 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:43,480 Yeah. So the the descriptions are 99 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,920 really, they're really vague, but they're just descriptive 100 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,200 enough that you will know. A space. 101 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,080 Yeah, because what will happen is it won't have the title of 102 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:56,360 the game because the game may not have a title yet. 103 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:57,440 Right. Yeah, OK. 104 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:00,640 Yeah, yeah, yeah. That happens too, but you might 105 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:06,160 have a description that says a two to four player space themed 106 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:11,120 tile placement deck building. So I haven't got experience that 107 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,160 I can go and pick. Absolutely. 108 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:15,520 As long as it's capacity for somewhere else. 109 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,840 As long as it's capacity, what happens is later on because they 110 00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:21,760 start with number one and go through. 111 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:26,440 If you have #86 by the time your number is drawn, the game you're 112 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,120 thinking about. Yeah, I've got I've got the 113 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:29,800 space game. Yeah. 114 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,720 So, so Katie and I get in and we look at the descriptor 115 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,960 description tickets in on the table and we're like, well, that 116 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:41,400 looks really cool. So we try to think of three that 117 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:45,360 look interesting in case our first choice. 118 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,680 Yeah. Gets capacity, we at least will 119 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:52,360 have one and we've played, we've played tested some very 120 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:59,200 interesting games and they're all in very different status of 121 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:04,080 design. We've played games that so we 122 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:08,160 played Time Lancers I. Think you've mentioned that game 123 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,520 before, Yeah, but last year before I remember you've 124 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:12,880 mentioned. So we played, tested it last 125 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,760 year, but Katie played, tested it the year before. 126 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,520 So she played, she played, tested it last year or the year 127 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:27,360 before. In 2021, No 22/20/22, she 128 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:29,520 played, tested it, it went to Kickstarter. 129 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,480 It failed to fulfill, it didn't fully pledge. 130 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:35,240 So then they went back to the drawing board. 131 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:40,160 So in 23 last year, they were back at the first exposure. 132 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:44,640 We both play tested it, it went back to Kickstarter, it 133 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:49,280 fulfilled, it broke stretch goals, it did really well. 134 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:53,960 And I think it's scheduled to deliver in fourth quarter of 135 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,480 this year. I think. 136 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,320 So that's a good example of a game that's already like, I 137 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:03,040 mean, it's because it was a kick when I, when I experienced it, 138 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,400 it had been the Kickstarter didn't launch. 139 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,760 So it was more finished than not finished, absolutely. 140 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:13,280 And how, how do the games, how developed are the games that 141 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:17,320 generally that you're play testing more than a sheet, more 142 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:19,280 than a sheet of paper? Yes. 143 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:21,640 Yeah. So they're generally towards the 144 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,480 back end of their. I would. 145 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:28,880 Say. The game that I played, that was 146 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:35,360 the earliest, yeah, in design, the closest to a sheet of paper. 147 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:38,120 I wish I could remember the name of it. 148 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,200 I just remember the experience. It was because it was so early 149 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:43,600 in development, I think. The title he had like a 150 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:45,080 placeholder for the title, but it was. 151 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,840 Like the board game it was. Yeah, it was an area control 152 00:08:49,680 --> 00:08:53,280 worker placement kind of a it was kind of a little, there was 153 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:57,880 a little bit of fighting strategy involved in it, but all 154 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:01,920 the components that we used. So we had like red wooden 155 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,720 meeples from another game and we had like, yeah, yeah, we had 156 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,920 little tanks from a different game and you know, so that it 157 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,000 was very mix and match component wise. 158 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:12,800 Eventually they would finalize it. 159 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:16,400 The top the tiles were hexes and they were like cardboard and 160 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,240 they were like, you know, dry, not dry erase marker, but 161 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,880 permanent markers to indicate the different terrain. 162 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,280 So that was the closest to really early production. 163 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:33,320 And how how people to feedback because I think when I've done 164 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,960 play testing before, I've given ideas and people just don't they 165 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:38,920 just dismissed them as well like this. 166 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:43,080 This is how the game plays and weren't that receptive to any 167 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,920 not I mean not critical as in rude feedback, but just 168 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,840 observations about the design because it because it was their 169 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:51,800 baby. Yeah, yeah. 170 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,960 They didn't seem receptive to any changes that similar in 171 00:09:55,960 --> 00:10:00,720 Jenkin or so G feedback with the scoring system is a form you 172 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,160 fill in. Was it just dialogue over the 173 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:04,040 over? The it's. 174 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,440 Over the table it's. Dialogue and the designers have 175 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:09,880 their own little forms that they'll ask us to fill up. 176 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,680 It's not official. So the first exposure play test 177 00:10:13,680 --> 00:10:20,080 all has its own reputation. And so I don't think they would 178 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,120 let a designer. Well, that's not true. 179 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:25,400 It's happened once or twice. Some they've slipped through the 180 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,440 tracks. What you just described doesn't 181 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,800 happen very often because first exposure has a reputation to 182 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,640 maintain. However, that doesn't mean I 183 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:37,320 haven't met some of the people that, you know, some designers 184 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:39,640 you're talking about. I mean, we're all humans and I 185 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:43,240 get that and egos getting away and yeah, yeah, we get attached 186 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,560 to our concepts and that's fine. But if you're a game designer, 187 00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:50,640 you have to like be open to people not trashing your game, 188 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:54,160 but trying to what's the phrase trying to break your game? 189 00:10:54,560 --> 00:10:58,200 Yeah, yeah. And you have to be open to that. 190 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:03,960 What's your favorite play testing experience? 191 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:07,600 Have you, have you a favorite moment or anything you've tested 192 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:12,040 and then seen come through to being final and say I was part 193 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:17,520 of that? So that's two questions or I 194 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:18,400 have. Too different. 195 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:24,000 I have two different answers to that, so the first one is my 196 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:28,800 favorite experience, favorite game that has not come to 197 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:32,440 fruition. It's by Tunnel Monster, Tunnel 198 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:38,280 Monster Studios, who this week Adam reached out to me and asked 199 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,200 me if I was going to be a Gen. Con this year because he's got a 200 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,920 new game that he's play testing. So hopefully we're going to get 201 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:45,320 together with him on Sunday. Nights. 202 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,480 Yeah. No playtester. 203 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:50,720 Listen, this is, this is humbling. 204 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,120 Like people know who I am. That's kind of yeah. 205 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,400 So it's so weird, right? It's just, I'm not, I don't 206 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:58,680 know. Anyway, OK, so Adam reached out 207 00:11:58,680 --> 00:11:59,960 to me and I'm like, yeah, dude, I'm going to be here. 208 00:11:59,960 --> 00:12:01,800 He's like, all right, cool. He's got a new game. 209 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,320 And but anyway, last year we played tested his game called 210 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,600 Chef's Table. Yeah, I remember you mentioned 211 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,320 this. Yeah, it's like a cooperative. 212 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:13,600 You roll dice and then you place them. 213 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,320 You're in the back of the house in the kitchen trying to fulfill 214 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,920 orders. It was just really cool. 215 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:24,040 It was a really cool game. But I haven't seen, I haven't 216 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,760 heard anything from Adam. I haven't heard any, have not 217 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,840 seen any momentum on that. I feel like that game was pretty 218 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,560 close. It was really close, right? 219 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:35,720 And I'm going to talk to Adam about it. 220 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:37,520 Like what? Happened to see what's happened 221 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:39,440 because some games just get shelved and they either 222 00:12:39,560 --> 00:12:42,920 something else appears because it's like something else that's 223 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,760 been released and somebody else got their first, or Yep, they 224 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:48,160 get a bit of a blocker or you can't find somebody to publish 225 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:49,640 if you're not going to get in the Kickstarter route. 226 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:51,880 You know, it's interesting you brought that up. 227 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:56,480 Our friend Tata Wu had a similar situation with his game in the 228 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:00,480 Stars, right? That always intrigued me as well 229 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:01,960 because yeah, I mean, you're talking about it. 230 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,040 And I mean, it sounds like it really is a was it A roll? 231 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:07,200 Roll and write. If it was you were doing it. 232 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:08,680 Was it? Was a roll in it? 233 00:13:08,680 --> 00:13:10,120 Yeah, it was a roll and write where you were drawing 234 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:11,280 constellations or. Something. 235 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:13,200 Yeah, Yeah. I don't remember the whole 236 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,760 story, but he said he had to shelve that game. 237 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:19,640 Maybe he'll so it's it's in development. 238 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,160 So yeah, so that's that happens, right? 239 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:29,080 So games are in different forms of development and they come out 240 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:33,680 and yeah, I. Think one of my one of the games 241 00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:38,400 I've I guess I worked on worked on that I was most involved with 242 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:43,280 was was Banson West. So through lockdown I. 243 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:44,360 Remember. You talking about? 244 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:49,760 Yeah, but we, but that was all done on Table Topia and other 245 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:54,200 people use is it TTS Tabletop Simulator, But all of that was 246 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:58,280 done on Tabletopia and it was like playing the finished game. 247 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,560 It said every couple of weeks when we went back to play tests 248 00:14:01,560 --> 00:14:05,760 or just play the game and there was so much more contact. 249 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:11,040 Ike, who's the designer, just constantly tunes. 250 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,760 Like we give so much feedback and it's it's absorbent and it's 251 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,600 take it away, come back and it's like, like all this has changed 252 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,800 and you're like, OK, like maybe less is more. 253 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:25,200 Sometimes. So it was always a good 254 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,680 experience and we, I remember, I guess we did rule book reading 255 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:31,520 and we did quite a lot of edits on the rule book to try and help 256 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,640 because it was, it's an open, it's a sandbox kind of game. 257 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:41,080 So the fact that you could do anything made for interest in 258 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,560 play tests because somebody could go off and just do do 259 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:46,600 their own stuff. But it generally ended up that 260 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:52,840 we were running around the Wild West shooting each other with a 261 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:54,720 shotgun, making incredible stories. 262 00:14:55,880 --> 00:15:00,880 But that's probably 1 the game I've probably play tested and 263 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:06,560 seen come through the most, which I think, I mean other 264 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:12,440 games we've been involved with. There's a game called Evolution, 265 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:16,520 which is, which actually there's a, there's a newer version 266 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:18,920 called Nature coming out, which you'll hear more more about in a 267 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,680 few in about a month's time. But they had an expansion that 268 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,720 we played tested quite a bit thinking about it now, which was 269 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:27,880 about climate change. It was the climate part of the 270 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,080 game. So that one we played tested and 271 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,040 that was that was kind of, you printed it out yourself. 272 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,280 Yeah, obviously you, you did your own thing. 273 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:40,400 So I think listening to you, I think it's probably my mindset 274 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,840 has to change maybe when I'm at the Games Expo. 275 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:47,720 Because. Time is so tight I don't. 276 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:50,560 I don't. Necessarily invest my time there 277 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,160 and actually I should do more think I could do more fun I. 278 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:57,600 Think when you come to the US and eventually make it to Gen. 279 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:01,520 Con, we should do that together. Yeah, that'd be interesting. 280 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,280 We should sign up for a play test together and play test in 281 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:08,360 the same game and see. As a whole, as a whole, episode 282 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,000 and 1/2. Absolutely. 283 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,640 I want to answer the second part of your question. 284 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,480 You would then. Well, so you asked about. 285 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:19,280 I forgot we'd have to check the tape. 286 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:24,680 So a game that I. Oh yes. 287 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:29,320 And was part of that. And that would be, I mean, hands 288 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,360 down, our friend Heather Dixon and Apistocracy. 289 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:33,760 OK. Yeah, yeah. 290 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,080 So I play tested that by myself a Gen. 291 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:42,960 Con in the first exposure play test hall back in 2021 or no 292 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:47,560 20/20/22 I was doing that while Katie was doing time lansers 293 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:53,800 then at Geek way 22. No, no, these years just. 294 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,880 Blurry. I know Katie and I get to play 295 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:00,440 Apistocracy with Heather at Geek Way in Saint Louis. 296 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,800 And then Heather brought apostocracy to Cajun Khan in 297 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:09,119 England back in April. So several people played at 24 298 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:13,880 this year. And then it she just killed it. 299 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:15,520 She. Killed it. 300 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:21,440 Oh yeah, did she? I think she broke 2000 backers 301 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:22,319 and. I think so. 302 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,800 She did. Yeah, I mean, just it's a really 303 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,640 good story because I mean, both the art is lovely. 304 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,480 That is, I didn't get to play it when we were together, but I 305 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:36,320 watched a few people play sessions and the components and 306 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,440 you can see how it all comes together over the couple of 307 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:43,800 years. How different was was it to when 308 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,840 you played it most recently to when you first saw it in SASA 309 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:49,480 22? Huge. 310 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,720 Huge. In terms of design, artwork, 311 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:57,200 both. Yes, the the core of the game 312 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:03,600 didn't change, but she clearly listened to feedback. 313 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:10,320 Yeah, and the game got tighter and better, you know, so that's 314 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,040 exciting. The game went really well. 315 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:15,640 Are you? Are you? 316 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,520 Are you play testing Jane Cole? You haven't got much time this 317 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:19,280 show, have you? Are you there? 318 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,160 For a day? No, no, we're not. 319 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:23,960 We haven't signed up for anything. 320 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,840 The other thing too is you could just, you don't have to sign up. 321 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,200 You can show up. You can just rock up, yeah. 322 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:36,600 But when you do that, you, you, you get last choice in 323 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,240 whatever's leftover for capacity, right? 324 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,480 Here's the interesting thing about that 8:00 AM slot on 325 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:46,160 Sunday morning. Everybody's asleep from Saturday 326 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:50,280 night, so. This seemed like a very good use 327 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,680 of time. Like, like you say on opening 328 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:57,320 day, rocking up, doing 2 hours before you've kind of got your 329 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,560 fix of ball gaming ahead of everyone else. 330 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:06,080 Yeah, IQ when you could help somebody, right develop their 331 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,960 game. The cool thing is if you end up 332 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,120 with free time, if you're, if you're a Gen. 333 00:19:11,120 --> 00:19:13,440 Con, and this is to anyone, if you're a Gen. 334 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,520 Con and you've got yourself to a 2 hour block where you have 335 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,560 nothing to do, go check out First Exposure Playtest Hall. 336 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:21,720 Because there's sometimes where they're standing out in the 337 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:25,040 concourse trying to get people to come in because they need. 338 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,240 They have more designers. That happens sometimes too. 339 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,400 I don't think the other way around, where they have more 340 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,000 players than designers. I don't know that that happens, 341 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:39,080 but maybe it does. I don't think that it does. 342 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:41,120 I got two prototypes sitting right here. 343 00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:43,360 I thought that's my next question about say what's your, 344 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,720 are you doing any testing or prototyping at the moment? 345 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:50,440 What have you got? What have you got on the On the 346 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:56,000 Cajun Gamer testing table? It's the meatball to meatball 347 00:19:56,120 --> 00:19:56,640 testing table. Oh. 348 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:00,000 The meatball to meatball. Testing team Team what I needed. 349 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:07,200 I can't even say it. I need to get a new felt mat for 350 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:11,120 my gaming table and make it like white with like the purple and 351 00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:14,160 the blue meeple with the number 2 on it right in the centre few. 352 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,000 Times. Yeah, we should do that. 353 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:20,360 That'd be cool. So if you remember, I can't say 354 00:20:20,360 --> 00:20:23,160 much about it right now because I haven't played it yet, but I 355 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,120 have a prototype of Raise the Realm Estate. 356 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,800 That game looked really cool because I think you mentioned it 357 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,960 on the on your. It was the origins. 358 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:34,280 It was the. Origins. 359 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:38,600 Yeah, Yeah, that's right. It was a game that we just kind 360 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,640 of stumbled upon. I mean, it's got a 361 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:43,920 three-dimensional castle that you have to. 362 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,200 Build medieval. Medieval theme I seem to 363 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:47,560 remember. Yeah. 364 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:51,240 I think I I did a bit of a ball game geek look up and went this 365 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,680 is my kind of game. It's by Grodd games. 366 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,720 The only thing I can do is I can read to you the little intro 367 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:01,760 that came with the game. Welcome to a state, Raise the 368 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:04,560 realm. A Great War has ended with a 369 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:08,160 truce. Dawn drawn by sword and steel. 370 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:09,240 I'm a God. I love this. 371 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:13,240 Whether the victors of glory or the nobles caught in defeat, the 372 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,680 great houses that remain must rebuild. 373 00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:20,520 Great uncertainty remains as to what the passive time will 374 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,680 bring. Prosperity or more conflict. 375 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,520 In the end, that result will be up to the decisions of each 376 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:30,720 house and the decisions of their ruler, and you take on the role 377 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:32,960 of one of those houses. How cool is that? 378 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:35,360 How cool is that? And I think I found a new 379 00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:37,840 feature which is like, you know, those film trailers when there's 380 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:42,320 a guy goes and then the ma'am we have PJ reading from a rule book 381 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:46,280 intro and people to guess the game that you're talking about. 382 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:48,120 You know, that little that little section. 383 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,440 Yeah, I like that. It's all that little heading out 384 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,600 of board game geek. The first bit, that little 385 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,920 saying and then people, it's got to be in that Husky PJ voice. 386 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,320 Oh, you know, there was a time at the dawn of time kind of 387 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,920 thing. It was a night. 388 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,560 Oh, I've not my books over. Don't do that. 389 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,280 I banged on the table with my dawn of time. 390 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,280 I just sound really good. And what what the what the 391 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,920 mechanics have you do? You know, much so. 392 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:19,920 I haven't dived into it too. Much you need to get this, you 393 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:24,520 need to get this game on the table and play tested or played. 394 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,480 There's you know what, I'm excited because I get to play 395 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:32,960 purple and there's blue, so. Purple and blue. 396 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,240 We got purple and blue, so that's cool. 397 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:37,080 You'll be glad. Is it 4? 398 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,160 Four, yeah. Two to four. 399 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,840 Two to four players, two to four, I have a 2. 400 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,160 Players good. I'm intrigued yeah. 401 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:48,080 You have a two player game. What's that game? 402 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:49,600 And can you read through a rule book again? 403 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:51,880 Because I think I think our list has enjoyed your. 404 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,000 Has that Karen? Has that got a little intro 405 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:59,320 section it? It a little bit. 406 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:00,560 Please. Yeah, just. 407 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,640 Do that with them. It's not as it's not as cool. 408 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:05,880 I don't think it's a thematic intro, but you're. 409 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,400 Going to make it cool. Oh yeah, I'm totally going to 410 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,160 make it cool. So first of all, this is echoes 411 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,960 of Emperors. Now this is on Kickstarter. 412 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,000 Right now. At the right now this is by 413 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,960 echoes of. Emperors. 414 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:22,560 Emperors. Echoes of emperors. 415 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:27,840 By Vulcaban Studio I. Love, love it. 416 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:29,680 Yeah. So I'm going to give you some 417 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,640 stats after I read this real quick. 418 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:36,120 Let's see what does it say in the opening Echoes of Emperors, 419 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:41,600 a strategic card game focused on one versus 1 gameplay. 420 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:46,120 Take on the role of a medieval ruler and learn about the 421 00:23:46,120 --> 00:23:50,360 stories of our ancestors by building your empire and 422 00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:53,520 defeating your enemies. Echoes of Emperors is a deck 423 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:57,960 building board game with chess like mechanics where you use the 424 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:02,880 strengths of your civilizations to your own advantage. 425 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,160 Does it? I mean a well read, B looks 426 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,360 cool. Yeah, it seems interesting. 427 00:24:10,360 --> 00:24:15,440 So it's a two player game. It's it's built, built, built. 428 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,640 Is that the right word? I got built, built. 429 00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:21,200 It's built in research by historians and anthropologists, 430 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:27,080 so it's informed by history. There's four starting factions, 431 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,920 the Scots, the Norsemen, the Byzantines and the Mongol 432 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,320 Empire. It is my understanding that 433 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:38,840 they've broken a few stretch goals and have released 2, two 434 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,960 or four more factions. I believe so. 435 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,760 Here's a few stats because I love, I know Gareth loves him. 436 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,120 Some stats. I love stats. 437 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:55,040 Currently, as of this morning, 747 backers, there's ten days to 438 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,080 go. That's going to be 8 days to go. 439 00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,440 Is the time that you're listening to this because we 440 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:04,880 always record a few days in advance and it is a faction 441 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:11,240 control game over a battle map. I can tell you, but judging by 442 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:17,400 the prototype that the battle map changes, there are these two 443 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:23,760 by 4 grids and they change. So it's never the same and 444 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,720 they're not double sided, so you know, but there's a lot of them. 445 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:30,280 And so you build the battle map in front of you. 446 00:25:32,120 --> 00:25:34,800 Again, I don't know much more about it, but I want to thank 447 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:41,440 Neil from Volkabon Studios for sending me a prototype to give a 448 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:42,760 try. He was really excited. 449 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,880 So I reached out to him a week before the project launched and 450 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,040 I was like, we're really interested in getting you on the 451 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:50,280 show. We want to talk about it and 452 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,400 everything. Of course, it's it's active now. 453 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:53,840 We haven't been, the timing hasn't worked. 454 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,520 But when I told him that both he both my wife and I have, you 455 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,760 know, we've studied history and yeah, yeah. 456 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,080 He was like, I'm going to send you a copy. 457 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:04,960 I want you guys to play and just tell me what you think. 458 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,920 So we'll try to get him on. By the time that happens, the 459 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,400 game will probably be fulfilled so. 10 days to go from today. 10 460 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,280 days to go from today, eight from the. 461 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,520 Time you're listening. Oh, yeah, eight from the time 462 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:17,800 you listened to this. Good point. 463 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:23,240 I'm intrigued. Yeah, so I got two prototypes 464 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:24,800 sitting on my table ready to rock. 465 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,200 I'm excited about them both for different reasons. 466 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:30,640 See, that's the other thing too, about play time. 467 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,080 Both. Both are, I mean also intrigued. 468 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,360 So you need to you need to feedback your play testing 469 00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:40,520 learnings. You know, you've got a vacation 470 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,680 coming up. Why don't you let the family go 471 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,840 to Greece and you come hang out with me for a moment? 472 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,880 Hang out here. Yeah, I quite like Greece. 473 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,200 I could go and do some ancient Greek games with me. 474 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,440 Yeah, thematically. But you're not, because you're 475 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,480 going to be too busy looking at all the cool stuff. 476 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:57,280 Sirens. Was it Sirens? 477 00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:58,760 Was that Greek? What was that, Roman? 478 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:00,880 Sirens. Sirens is Greek. 479 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:02,480 Oh, so that'll get in the bag then. 480 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,920 That'd be perfect that. Would be perfect. 481 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,200 I've, I've just resurrected one of our features and I was asking 482 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:15,240 AI what are the top 3 tips for people who want to play test as 483 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,720 in designers. OK. 484 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,400 And then I asked it, what were the top three tips for somebody 485 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,280 who is a play tester? Would you like to know what 486 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,800 those are? Yeah, let's see what AI has to 487 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:27,520 say. See, so let's get let's start 488 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,880 with the. So if I'm a play tester, these 489 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:36,400 are three things that the the AI thinks I should do. 490 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,160 It should be observant and detailed. 491 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,720 Pay close attention to every aspect of the game, from rules 492 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:45,960 to mechanics. The more detailed your 493 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,000 observations, the more useful your feedback. 494 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,400 That's number one. Number two, be honest and 495 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:56,720 constructive, even if it means pointing out flaws or aspects of 496 00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,080 the game you didn't enjoy. Constructive criticism is 497 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:04,280 essential for improvement. And then #3 considered. 498 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,640 Consider different perspectives. Trophy yourself in the shoes of 499 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:10,560 different types of players. I think this is a bit that I'd 500 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:14,120 be missing, including those with varying levels of experience. 501 00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:16,520 Think about how the game would appeal to the broad audience. 502 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,560 Consider different play styles. They're good tips. 503 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:24,760 And if you are a if you're wanting to test the game. 504 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:29,400 So for those designers out there, number one, gather a set 505 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,880 of diverse play testers. You don't want just beginners, 506 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,840 you want beginners, experts. And in between have clear 507 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,600 objectives and feedback collection which you've covered 508 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:46,920 and iterative testing and refinement. 509 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:54,520 Conduct multi rounds of testing between sessions and analyze and 510 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:59,200 play tests and refine and Polish the game. 511 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,720 I'm trying to paraphrase a massive sentence, right? 512 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,080 Yes. Yeah. 513 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,120 So there we go. There's our top tips by AI. 514 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,760 Yeah. So I was listening to you and I 515 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,840 found my notes from my first play test. 516 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,120 So here's something interesting. Apostocracy. 517 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,960 That was August 4th, 2022. OK. 518 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,560 And I have my notes from my first good player of that. 519 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,160 I played a game called Holy Roller. 520 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,440 I completely forgot about this. This was interesting because 521 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:34,840 it's set in Catholic, Roman Catholic mythology where you 522 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:39,640 are, I think you play the role of different Saints trying to 523 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:44,840 hold back Satan from breaking the seals, kind of like in the 524 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,440 Book of Revelation or something. That's what I kind of remember 525 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,560 vaguely, but it was a cooperative game. 526 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,720 And then I played a game called War of the Woods. 527 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,640 Which war? War of the Woods. 528 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,680 I thought it was going to be released because like the prod, 529 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,600 the prototype quality, the games, the rules, it looked like 530 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,400 it was close to, you know? I didn't can't find that one. 531 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:09,600 No, it's, it's been shelled, I guess. 532 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:11,560 Oh. And holy rutles, I've found you 533 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:13,080 can do a print and play if you really want to try. 534 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:14,560 Again, you can. You can. 535 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,920 How about outrun the bear, our friend? 536 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,800 Oh. Outrun the bear. 537 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:22,680 And remember. There's one. 538 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,360 Katie and I, our name is in the rule book on the front page as a 539 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:27,760 play tester. How cool is that? 540 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,760 That's. One you've seen going through to 541 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:36,320 the end. Yep, time Lancers emissary. 542 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:38,800 I love the fact you have a little rule book, a little a 543 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:43,240 like even a little book of your PJ's memoirs of of ball game 544 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,400 testing and. I always write them down. 545 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,840 I write my notes down, but then they give me a form to fill out. 546 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:50,080 So I'm like Oh well, I just copied them. 547 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,560 So on August 4th, 2023, I played this game called Emissary. 548 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,800 I said automobiles with a question mark. 549 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,360 There was movement and exploration. 550 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,320 Too much narrative, not enough mechanical thought. 551 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,800 Man I mean the top. The top AI tips did not say 552 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,600 bring a notebook and write notes as you go. 553 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,720 No, do not. You are a pro. 554 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:15,280 You got little black pencil as well. 555 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,240 I mean, I have a pencil. I'm an archivist. 556 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:22,480 I have to have a pencil. This is this this This is why 557 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,280 the two things blend so well together. 558 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:25,480 They they really do. Yeah, you're. 559 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:29,680 Diligent and you're note taking and wow. 560 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,000 So who doesn't love a play test and a preview? 561 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,040 I want to. I really wish you could come to 562 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:37,400 Gen. Con because I would love to play 563 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,000 test with you. That would be really good. 564 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,080 Or you need to come to the UK Games Expo and then. 565 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:44,760 Hey, see the? Play test zones then. 566 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaking of play testing, you have a game on your shelf. 567 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,680 Do I? Yeah, it's called Feta Ventera. 568 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,840 It's a prototype. We need, we need to play that 569 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,280 game. You need to play. 570 00:31:58,400 --> 00:31:59,320 I've already. Played it. 571 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,040 It's I've actually moved it recently to top of the pole 572 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,800 because it's not been played. Because you need to play it. 573 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:06,880 I've already played it a couple times. 574 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,120 Because we're going to get Zach from Corrosive Games on the show 575 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,360 he's about to launch on Kickstarter. 576 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,280 So when it is, we need to get that done, right. 577 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:16,760 That's on my mission. Before. 578 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,040 Before we go on break, Yes. Before we go on summer break, 579 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,200 yeah. So think about play testing. 580 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:27,160 It's a lot of fun. Help make games better, help 581 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,960 designers succeed their visions. Yeah. 582 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,320 It's just cool. It's just cool, yeah. 583 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:35,880 Right. I mean, I'll be interested here. 584 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,240 Anyone else who's got play testing comments, please do 585 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,360 write them in the comments on whichever podcasts you're 586 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,160 listening to. Or just drop us Adm on 587 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,320 Instagram. Absolutely, yeah. 588 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,880 And if you want any play testing done, obviously me and PJPJ in 589 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:54,360 particular is a pro I don't know about or if if you if you want a 590 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,760 ball game intro to your Kickstarter campaign read in a 591 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:58,720 Husky voice. P JS up for hire. 592 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,920 I am ready to read an introduction to your game today. 593 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,360 We definitely, we definitely should choose a little on Ball 594 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,560 Game Geek when it just got like the name of the game with a very 595 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,040 small strap line. That should be a little game we 596 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:13,680 play. You need to take one of the 597 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:18,120 things I read the samples, audio samples and post on Instagram. 598 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,040 Yeah, let's go to live. I said chop that out. 599 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,480 I like when podcasts do that and I wish we could. 600 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:26,480 We did. More we can we can do that one. 601 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,000 That's that's a much better idea, right. 602 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:30,720 So thank you everyone for this thing. 603 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,200 Thanks PJ for sharing and talking about play testing. 604 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,760 It's it's been educational, which like it should be. 605 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:38,440 I love it. I love. 606 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:40,760 It OK. Thanks everyone for listening. 607 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,880 We'll speak to you soon. Thanks everyone for listening, 608 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,240 please subscribe and as always, we'd love to hear your thoughts 609 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:51,960 and ideas, so make sure to leave those in the comments and don't 610 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,960 forget you can also chat with us both on Instagram at Meeple the 611 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:56,600 Meeple.