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Hey guys and welcome to episode 
126 of Meatball to Meatball. 

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I am back. 
If you watched last weeks 

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episode where I interviewed Mark
about talking about fury of 

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elements, then you saw that I 
was back, but I'm now I'm back 

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home. 
I'm back in the Maple to Maple 

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Studios. 
I would like to extend a 

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gratitude to Adam from Tabletop 
Vibes one last time for the 

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invitation to go to his studio, 
hang out with him and his family

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and meet Mark and bring him and 
his game to you last week. 

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So thank you. 
I want to thank all the well 

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wishers. 
I'm feeling much better. 

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I'm not 100%, but hopefully soon
because Origins is this weekend 

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and we're going to be busy as 
all get out, hang out with 

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content creators and publishers.
So look forward to some live, 

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live collaborative reports from 
Origins Game Day. 

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So this week's episode, teaching
games that turn people into 

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meeples and to talk about 
building community through 

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teaching games or using your 
teaching skills to build 

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community is Brian from Always 
Plays Blue. 

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Brian, how are you? 
I'm good. 

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Thank you very much for having 
me. 

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On I know this is exciting. 
Thank you for being on. 

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I'm really glad to finally get 
you on. 

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I have not. 
We haven't. 

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We haven't seen each other since
last year, Cajun caught. 

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Yes. 
Yeah. 

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Yeah. 
Trans play a game with you. 

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Yeah, we did. 
We did. 

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I know I was. 
I was heartbroken about that. 

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There was just, I was really, to
be honest with you, I was so 

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touched and surprised by how 
many people showed up. 

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I didn't expect that, right? 
Yeah. 

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My wife as an extension was 
really, she was like, these 

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people love you. 
Like, this is crazy. 

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You know, I can't get 30 people 
to come to Springfield to visit 

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me, but to get everyone go to 
Southampton, it's like, Oh my 

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gosh, that was. 
Yeah. 

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So thanks for being there. 
I'm sorry we're going to get to 

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play a game, but you know, what 
we do get to do is talk about 

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teaching games and community 
building. 

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How cool is that? 
That's brilliant, yeah. 

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So you had brought up this topic
about you've been teaching a lot

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of games to family members and 
casual gamers, right? 

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That's, that's kind of what 
you've been doing a lot lately. 

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So, so let's start with our 
great friend, the Greek 

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philosopher Socrates, ready to 
go. 

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He said that teaching is the 
kindling of a flame and not the 

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filling of a person. 
So here's the question, how do 

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you kindle the flame of casual 
gamers trying? 

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It's these are people that don't
like a lot of these people I 

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teach don't really have their 
own games, collections and 

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things like that like they do. 
You can see from all the the 

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things that the people that you 
may have behind us now it's. 

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Absolutely. 
It's, it's getting them excited 

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to enjoy a sit down and discover
the hobby that we're so 

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passionate about, right? 
And also get them excited to 

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want to come back and do it 
again and again. 

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Yeah, that one play is important
because it can get, you can get 

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them to have an interest in a 
hobby and bring them in. 

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So it's a good first impression 
of what we're after. 

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So is it when you do that, when 
you're teaching a game, is it, 

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is it your teaching skill or is 
it the nature of the games that 

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you teach? 
Like I'm interested in your 

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strategies, like when when 
you're going to go to a games 

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day or family or whatever. 
And it's like, are you choosing 

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games that are going to help 
kindle the flame, as Socrates 

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would say? 
Or is it that you have developed

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this skill to create that 
welcoming moment and kindle the 

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flame? 
It's probably both, but. 

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A little bit, but I'd say more 
about the games. 

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It's. 
Yeah, it's making that decision 

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to pick the games. 
You don't want to put a game 

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down. 
Like I say, you're trying to 

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encourage these people in. 
So you don't want to put down a 

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massive box and say, right, your
first game you've ever played, 

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here's Twilight Imperium, and 
then watch them run to the 

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borders. 
So, yeah, picking the right 

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games. 
You want the things with sort of

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minimal actions. 
Yeah. 

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Not lots of different things you
can do on a turn. 

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You want to keep it very basic. 
Yeah, short turns, things like 

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that. 
Right, so I know you have a list

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of games prepared. 
So what is I know people like to

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do like top fives and things of 
that nature, but let's go 

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straight to the top. 
What is your number one game? 

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It's your go to. 
You're pulling off the shelf to 

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teach it. 
Hands down Carcasome. 

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Absolutely, yeah. 
That's a good one. 

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I was going to build up to it, 
but we'll start with the best 

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one. 
You like to say? 

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Yeah. 
Yeah, no, let's start with #1 

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don't save that for last. 
It's downhill from here. 

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No. 
Yep. 

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It's, I know some people kind of
go off the older classic games 

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like The Ticket to Ride and 
Nikitan and Carcasson, but it's 

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like I say, you want a game with
simple and quick actions. 

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And it's just so, so basic. 
But there's a lot underneath it 

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that a new player can kind of 
get into because all you're 

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doing is picking up a tile. 
You've got no choice to make 

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other than where you're going to
place that one tile. 

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That's what you've got to do. 
And that choice is obviously 

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dictated by a number of factors 
about legal placement already. 

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So you cut down your options for
the player. 

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Yeah. 
And it's really nice because 

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there's two ways to play 
Carcassonne as well. 

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There's a nice way that you play
with new, new players and then 

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once they're into it, you can 
sort of teach them the more 

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aggressive method that I like to
play along with people that play

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a lot. 
So that's a great, that's a 

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great option. 
I want to thank you for that 

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because you know, that's my 
favorite mechanic is tile 

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placement. 
I, I just look for me, I don't 

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even play to win that game 
anymore. 

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For me, it's all about making 
the map on the table. 

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And but here's the thing, when 
people people know that about 

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me, and if they play Carcassonne
with me, they will 

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intentionally, when they draw 
the piece that you need to fill 

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in that spot because they know 
that I abhor a vacuum. 

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And I'm like, we've got to get 
this map filled. 

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I'm not going to win. 
But we got to fill this map. 

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And they won't, they won't do 
it. 

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They'll hold on to it. 
Yeah. 

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That just breaks my heart. 
Do you have teaching strategies 

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for how you play Carcassonne, or
how you teach it rather? 

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It's I think some of these games
on the list, and Carcassonne's 

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one of them, they're very good 
at teaching as you go. 

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You can give like a basic 
overall, like these are the 

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different tiles you're going to 
get. 

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So this is the Abbey tile, this 
is the road tile. 

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And just let the players know 
that this is how it's going to 

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score now. 
This is going to score at the 

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end of the game, but it's such a
good game for just like pick a 

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tile. 
What have you got? 

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Show me what you've got and we 
can go through your options and 

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that and yeah, it's great for 
that. 

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Do you, because Carcassone, 
Carcassone can be a large game, 

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it's got so many expansions. 
So. 

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So I guess, I guess first of 
all, do you have them all or 

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most of them? 
OK, no, I've only got the 

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cathedrals myself. 
OK, but my brother-in-law has 

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got a few more, so we play 
bigger games when we go up and 

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see them. 
OK. 

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OK. 
That was my question is do you 

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like introduce a group of people
to Carcasson and then once they 

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feel good about it and they like
it, do you like introduce more 

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expansions as time goes on? 
Yeah, so we'll I will drop the 

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the upcomers court now you know 
the farms and fields. 

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That's always a tricky 1 to 
teach new players, so I'll drop 

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that straight away. 
But once they're confident it 

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I'll bring that back in. 
And then I've also got the, the 

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version I've got has the rivers 
and the Abbots with it as well. 

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Yeah, and. 
The rivers. 

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The rivers. 
Amazing. 

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Yeah, just to start the game off
like that, Yeah. 

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And it's. 
A nice casual way to start the 

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teach. 
Yeah, I love that. 

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That's awesome. 
And then I'll bring in the Inns 

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and cathedrals because that's a 
fun one. 

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Then because you sort of it puts
the pressure on them for the 

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incompletion. 
You don't want to not finish the

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city. 
That's true. 

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That's very true. 
I like that. 

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That's great. 
So I was thinking about yet 

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another one of our Greek 
philosophers, Epictetus. 

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He said that you should seek not
the good in external things, IE 

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games, but rather within 
ourselves, but do so in 

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community with others. 
And I feel like just listening 

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to you talk about how you teach 
Carcassonne, I feel like you 

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really do that right? 
It's not about the game. 

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You're seeking within yourself 
that which is good and then you 

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are sharing that in a community 
as if you've got some 

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responsibility. 
And I've really, I think you 

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seem to execute that well 
through Carcassonne. 

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I love it. 
Thank you. 

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Thank you. 
Yep. 

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What is what's your second game 
that you like to teach that's 

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been successful for you? 
I've got all of them down here, 

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so I'm going to be bringing up 
one time. 

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OK, so those of you who don't 
like to watch the videos, you're

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not going to see any of these, 
but. 

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That's true. 
That's true. 

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It's too bad and I don't care. 
This is Querkel. 

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You know, I've never played 
Querkel, so you're going to have

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to, yeah, you're going to have 
to run that down for me. 

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I don't. 
I've got a travel version up 

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there, but this is the deluxe 
one. 

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We love it so much we bought a 
second version. 

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Querkel is basically Scrabble, 
but with shapes and colors 

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instead. 
So you're placing a tile and 

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trying to keep either the color 
of the six symbols or the same 

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symbol but with the six 
different colors. 

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And if you can get them lined 
up, then you get sort of extra 

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points. 
Having six, you get an extra 

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trial point or you get you score
trial points. 

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But it's just one of those, 
again, tile lane where you're 

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just putting out on the board 
and it's spreading out. 

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There's no board for it. 
So you can play it on anyone's 

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table. 
You don't need to have any other

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than the bag of tiles. 
That's cool. 

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Like Scrabble. 
Do you have like a little easel 

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where you keep or is it more 
like Domino's where you just? 

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How do you do it in the 
collectors? 

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Yeah, the collectors one came 
with those. 

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That's really nice. 
OK. 

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That's cool. 
We had. 

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That's been a successful game 
for you when you teach that. 

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It has, yeah. 
So I, there's a board game group

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local to us. 
I haven't been for a few months 

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because I've had a lot going on 
with my studies and with the 

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with the building works outside.
But earlier in the year I was 

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asked to go along and do they do
like introduction tables. 

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So they do like a very basic one
and then sort of like a next 

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level Advanced 1. 
And I was asked to do and I took

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along Splendor and I took along 
Querkel and Querkel went down 

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very well with the ladies I was 
teaching. 

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Because it is you're taking 
Scrabble, which is again that 

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everyone knows, even if they 
don't play it. 

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And you're saying this is like 
Scrabble, but just here's the 

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change. 
It's colors and shapes instead 

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of words. 
And that's a great leveller as 

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well, because you don't need to 
have a thesaurus in your head to

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get these high scores. 
Everyone's on the same playing 

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field because it's just six 
colors, 6 shapes. 

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Yeah. 
And it's just brilliant. 

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And when somebody gets that, 
it's called a quirkle. 

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When you get 6 in a row. 
When someone gets that, it's a 

227
00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:27,360
table chair, even if even if you
set them up. 

228
00:10:27,560 --> 00:10:30,840
So that's a really I'm thinking 
about that. 

229
00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,640
That's a very simple, it's a 
simple mechanic. 

230
00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:36,200
It's a simple game. 
I can see why it's 1 you would 

231
00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:39,600
like to teach. 
It's very accessible both both 

232
00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,760
socially and intellectually. 
But I can feel like that's a 

233
00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:44,840
little bit. 
There's a lot of strategy 

234
00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,440
because you're not trying to put
a word together like you 

235
00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,000
wouldn't scrub, but you're 
trying to think about colors and

236
00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:51,480
you're trying to think about 
shapes. 

237
00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:52,920
That's. 
And that's good. 

238
00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,160
There's always that pace. 
At the beginning there are three

239
00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,880
identical tiles, so there's like
3 orange circles, 3 green 

240
00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:03,080
circles, 3 orange squares, 3 
blue stars like that. 

241
00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,360
So you can start to get, as you 
get to learn again, you can 

242
00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:08,840
start having your six in front 
of you to choose from and you're

243
00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:10,600
like looking down, I've got an 
orange circle. 

244
00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:12,840
There's already 2 on a board 
there and there's a potential 

245
00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:14,760
quirk over there. 
I know nobody else can place 

246
00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:17,280
that circle, so you're going to 
hold on to it and let someone 

247
00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,840
else build those oranges up. 
So you do start. 

248
00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:21,600
Like, I tend to divide mine into
two. 

249
00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,640
I have ones I'm holding on for 
for big moves later, and then 

250
00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,360
ones I'm just getting rid of to 
cycle through my tiles. 

251
00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:28,720
Yeah, once everyone knows that, 
that's it. 

252
00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,080
And they can sort of count the 
tiles and plan for their moves. 

253
00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:37,440
What's the player count on? 
It goes up to 4. 4 So when you 

254
00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,600
teach it, do you usually or do 
you usually play or do you like 

255
00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,520
have four players and you just 
kind of teach and oversee how 

256
00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:46,120
does that? 
Look like it depends on player 

257
00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:47,600
count. 
When I, when I taught that game,

258
00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:48,920
I was the 5th person at the 
table. 

259
00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:51,720
So I was happier to just sit 
back and and then I can sort of 

260
00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:53,560
advise people like what ties 
have you got? 

261
00:11:53,560 --> 00:11:54,640
You might want to think about 
this. 

262
00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,880
And it's always good to give, 
not just teach them the rules of

263
00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:00,000
the game, but teach them the 
tactics of the game as well, OK?

264
00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,880
That's pretty cool. 
I like that corkle man. 

265
00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,520
That's yeah, I'm gonna have to, 
I'm gonna have to get a copy and

266
00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:06,760
play that. 
Is that one of the? 

267
00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,560
I know that it starts with the 
letter Q, but it's like there's 

268
00:12:09,560 --> 00:12:13,120
like a few games that all begin 
with the letter Q like Koali. 

269
00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:14,920
And no, it's not one of those I 
know the ones right about. 

270
00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:17,720
Yeah, No, it's not. 
OK, it's not in that series. 

271
00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:19,480
OK, no, good to know. 
Good to know then. 

272
00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:20,720
So it's a little something, a 
little bit. 

273
00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:22,920
Different and there is a. 
You can't see it now, but 

274
00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,000
there's a nice travel version. 
It just comes in small works and

275
00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,080
the tiles are a lot smaller. 
That's what we normally play 

276
00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,200
with. 
I bet, I bet that's really just 

277
00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:32,680
easy to, you know, take with you
to a restaurant or a pub or 

278
00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:35,560
something like that. 
And just and the and the tiles, 

279
00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:37,440
are they, are they wooden? 
Are they plastic? 

280
00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,120
Are they metal? 
And so in the normal version and

281
00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,360
in the travel version are 
wooden, but in the deluxe 1 

282
00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,320
they're acrylic, a bit like 
these all tiles. 

283
00:12:44,680 --> 00:12:49,160
OK, so that one's really good 
for going to a pub or something,

284
00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:53,320
because yeah, if you spill your 
drink or whatever, it's going to

285
00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:55,920
be no problem. 
Yeah, OK, well, that's cool. 

286
00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,200
Quirkle, Carcassonne and 
Querkel. 

287
00:12:58,200 --> 00:12:59,080
That's one. 
And two. 

288
00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,400
I love it. 
So what's your third? 

289
00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:03,600
A game that you're like, I'm, 
I'm going to teach this and 

290
00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:05,600
everyone's going to fall in love
and the community is just going 

291
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,160
to blow up. 
Well, it's funny that you should

292
00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:11,120
say the word love because it's a
love letter. 

293
00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,720
Love letter. 
I did not see that coming. 

294
00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:16,560
No, that's a. 
Good, that's a good that's a 

295
00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:18,600
good one. 
And I love how I set that up and

296
00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:19,360
didn't even. 
Yeah. 

297
00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:23,000
Thank you very much for that. 
This was really, really good. 

298
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,480
Because it's each player has a 
card in their hand and then on 

299
00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:27,880
their turn they draw a second 
card. 

300
00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,360
So again, it's like keeping the 
choices minimal when you're 

301
00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:33,560
teaching games to sort of new 
and casual gamers. 

302
00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,320
So yeah, they've just got, and 
they've got, if you use the 

303
00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:38,800
spies as well, there's only 10 
different cards in the game. 

304
00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:41,680
And then it comes with a little 
reference sheet that tells you 

305
00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:44,760
the card counts for each of them
and what their what they all do.

306
00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:46,600
Seeing the cards you don't have 
in front of you, you know what 

307
00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,440
their powers are. 
So they have all that 

308
00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,120
information and they've just got
a very basic one or two 

309
00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:52,920
decision. 
We played again, actually, we 

310
00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:54,480
talked to someone at the weekend
at the Expo. 

311
00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,880
And the first sort of round or 
two is a bit unsure, but then 

312
00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,240
you can see him ticking over 
like I need this information. 

313
00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,200
If I put this down, it screws, 
I'm going to see that person's 

314
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:05,760
card. 
And you can see it all clicking 

315
00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,240
in his head. 
And at the end, he went on to, 

316
00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:11,720
he came second, but it was very 
close to the end to him and 

317
00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,400
against my wife, right. 
That was that was fun to watch 

318
00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:15,880
the final of those two gone off 
against each other. 

319
00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:18,240
That's one of my wife and I's 
favorite games to like. 

320
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,200
Take with us when we're 
travelling because. 

321
00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:25,200
It's so small so. 
Yeah, so a couple of years ago, 

322
00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:30,280
my stepmother and my eldest 
sister came up from Louisiana to

323
00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,000
visit. 
We just bought our house, so I 

324
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,160
finally had space for them to 
stay with us before living in a 

325
00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:38,160
tiny apartment. 
And so that was a really nice. 

326
00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,960
They stayed here for a week and 
I taught them Love leather. 

327
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,320
It was so it was really funny 
because I remember 1 moment 

328
00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,960
where they're still learning the
abilities. 

329
00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,400
Like you said, they've got the 
little reference card that lets 

330
00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,280
them know what each character 
does. 

331
00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:56,880
So I think it's my stepmother. 
She plays the priest and she's 

332
00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,200
like, she tells my sister, let 
me look at your card. 

333
00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:02,920
And so then, and then my sister 
was next, so she played a 

334
00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:04,640
priest. 
She's like, let me see your card

335
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:06,600
then. 
And I'm like, yeah, So you got 

336
00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,640
to be careful with those 
emotions for such a simple game.

337
00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,960
You cannot, you can't make 
emotional decisions in love 

338
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:16,080
letters, especially like that. 
It's like, OK, guys, you just 

339
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,560
wasted your priests. 
I'm just saying, you know, But I

340
00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,560
love that. 
How often have you taught love 

341
00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,360
letter? 
And how does it get received by 

342
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:27,080
the people that you introduce it
to? 

343
00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,960
I haven't taught it enough, but 
it's, it's a game you pull out 

344
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:32,160
first of all. 
And people see the red. 

345
00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:34,640
I don't know, I'm holding up to 
the camera, but they see that 

346
00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,480
red velvet bag and the kind of 
like there's a Princess and the 

347
00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,480
Prince and blah, blah. 
And people, I get a lot of sort 

348
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,400
of doubt in their eyes. 
But once you get like two or 

349
00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:47,160
three rounds in and they can see
that, that the cleverness of 

350
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:49,720
like playing cards to reveal 
other people's. 

351
00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:54,760
And when you is it the kind of 
it's the king or the Prince, but

352
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:57,440
there's one where if you have 
another card in your hand, you 

353
00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:01,720
have to play it, but you can 
also bluff that as well. 

354
00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:03,800
So you can put it down and make 
people think you've got. 

355
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:07,800
And once they sort of connect 
that and they're like, I don't 

356
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,120
have to be, I love games. 
The bluff, that's a whole 

357
00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,440
separate episode. 
But yeah, it's just seeing 

358
00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,320
people's brains click with 
certain tactics. 

359
00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,280
Once they Start learning those 
cards, that's just fantastic. 

360
00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:20,240
That's. 
A great one, love letter. 

361
00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:22,440
That's a good one. 
And then if you want to bump up 

362
00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,400
a level then you go for 
Lovecraft Letter which has that 

363
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:27,760
extra dimension of the Madness 
cards. 

364
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:30,240
See, I haven't. 
We haven't played that. 

365
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:33,760
One, no. 
The only other version of love 

366
00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,400
Letter I've played was the Star 
Wars. 

367
00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:38,760
What is it, Jabba? 
'S Oh yeah, yeah. 

368
00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:42,480
Dallas, I didn't care for it. 
It did some it did some weird 

369
00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:46,520
things that seemed to over 
complicate like love letters so 

370
00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:49,960
perfect and seamless. 
I mean 16 cards and a few little

371
00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,920
red cubes and a red velvet bag. 
Mine's old, so it's not. 

372
00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:56,040
Hearts. 
Yeah, I got an old. 

373
00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:57,440
Version I got. 
Cubes. 

374
00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,200
Cubes. 
It came a cubes, not little 

375
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:01,520
wooden hearts. 
Yeah. 

376
00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,640
So, you know, that's that's how 
that goes with love letter. 

377
00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:06,800
It's a good one. 
So we've we've gone carcasone, 

378
00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,599
we've gone Querkel, we've gone 
love letter. 

379
00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:12,640
So what's what's next on the 
list? 

380
00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:16,200
We're gonna get to the 
aggressive Games now, OK? 

381
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:20,400
Next stop is team of Tokyo. 
OK, now that's one I know. 

382
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,720
I say this again, it's basic 
rules, simple actions. 

383
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,000
It's Yahtzee style. 
Before a lot of people remember 

384
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,120
playing the arts. 
It's just like just rolling 

385
00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:32,120
those dice, re rolling, looking 
for punches. 

386
00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:34,800
Watching the banter start 
between the players is like, you

387
00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,040
know, I'm punching you, you're 
punching me back. 

388
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,600
And people going for revenge, 
even though it's not tactically 

389
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,280
viable to do that because 
they're on their last few 

390
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:43,680
hearts. 
It's like, I could heal, but I 

391
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:48,560
want to punch you. 
And yeah, and then it goes up to

392
00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,160
six players, which is really, 
really great for getting a nice 

393
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,560
group together. 
Again, is this where you usually

394
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,920
teach it at the local game group
that you were talking about, or?

395
00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:02,200
Yeah, and also I used to before 
I left my last job I started a 

396
00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,680
little board game corner. 
I asked the head of the company 

397
00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:11,920
if I could have £200 because I 
found a two by two Calyx in 

398
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,280
storage somewhere and I was 
like, I'm going to stop at the 

399
00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,000
Ball Game Corner for my work 
buddies and we're going to start

400
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,280
the ball game Club. 
And King of Tokyo was one of the

401
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:22,720
first games that I got us all 
into because it's not very long.

402
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:24,400
So for a lunch break everyone 
can have their food and then we 

403
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,400
can get a quick game or two of 
that out. 

404
00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:30,280
Yeah, you get a lot of emails 
after the game where everyone's 

405
00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:32,920
sort of like discussing how 
they're going to get back at you

406
00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:36,200
later. 
It's interesting because so you 

407
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,120
had three games that were very 
kind of, they kind of like 

408
00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:43,600
stimulated thought, right? 
They kindled the social and 

409
00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,400
intellectual flame, as it were. 
And that's got a great appeal 

410
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,080
when you're introducing it to 
new players. 

411
00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,400
But then with King of Tokyo, 
that kind of take that and 

412
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:56,520
adversarial, that also Kindles 
like a more social flame. 

413
00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,120
Yeah. 
And is rather successful. 

414
00:18:59,120 --> 00:19:01,200
I think one of my favorite 
things about King of Tokyo is 

415
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:05,080
it's so accessible for children.
I know that I have a friend here

416
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,120
in Springfield who that was one 
of the games he played with his 

417
00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:10,760
kids when they were younger. 
They're all a grown adults now, 

418
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:12,920
but he had a lot of success with
it. 

419
00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:16,520
Hey, tell me about how much 
experience have you had dealing 

420
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:21,080
with children and teaching games
to kids in these groups in these

421
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,040
experiences you've had? 
Not many. 

422
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,240
We don't have any kids that go 
to the local group. 

423
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,520
The two experiences I would say 
I've had is I went to Gridcon a 

424
00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:33,960
couple of years ago, which is 
like a Paul Grogan. 

425
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,800
Paul gaming rules. 
He does a little convention in 

426
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,880
the South of England and we were
setting up, my wife and I were 

427
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,120
setting up a game of the White 
Castle, which we absolutely 

428
00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:45,480
love. 
And it's one of those situations

429
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,560
where you can put a little flag 
on the end of your table that 

430
00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:53,080
asks for more players. 
And my, my wife had just popped 

431
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,200
to the loo and I was just sat 
there on my own and that. 

432
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,560
And then a gentleman came over 
with his little boy and asked if

433
00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,240
he could play. 
And I was like, he's like a 

434
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,040
really small child and like, 
this is a complex game. 

435
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:05,880
But I didn't say anything. 
I was like, more the merrier. 

436
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,720
And when my wife came back, I 
could see her see the child sat 

437
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:10,960
down and be like, what's going 
on? 

438
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,520
This kid? 
I don't know him and his dad 

439
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,480
must just play. 
Really complex games like 

440
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:19,800
Laserda level stuff. 
Because I explained the rules 

441
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:21,480
once and I said that you OK with
all that? 

442
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,600
And he was like, Yep, got it. 
And he played on the same level 

443
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:26,600
as us for the whole. 
He's amazing, that kid. 

444
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:28,360
Yeah. 
And I had chats with him later 

445
00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:30,480
on the weekend and yeah, he 
knows his stuff. 

446
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,160
So UK Expo was what that was 
last last weekend. 

447
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:34,080
Last weekend. 
Yeah, Last. 

448
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,560
Weekend, but you were there. 
I know that a lot of people 

449
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:38,280
bring their kids. 
There's a lot of families that 

450
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,120
go to the Expo. 
I'm just wondering if you've had

451
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,640
any experience teaching games or
just playing with kids at the 

452
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,440
Expo, either this one or in 
previous. 

453
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,400
The only kids that we really 
played with when we visit with 

454
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:56,040
Nick and Shelley Ball Game 
Review UK, their three kids, who

455
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,560
are they are all three of them, 
even the youngest, they are 

456
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:01,840
amazing at games. 
In fact, we've sat down with the

457
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,840
youngest because he wanted to 
teach us a game and he taught it

458
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:09,400
Florida State, which you'd 
expect from a child of Nick, but

459
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:10,720
yeah, he was. 
Yeah. 

460
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,120
Those kids are brilliant. 
For me personally, outside of 

461
00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:19,480
the groups and that I have my 
son who's I can't not softly 

462
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,360
push games onto him. 
So we've been building this 

463
00:21:21,360 --> 00:21:23,080
collection up. 
We started with like the sort of

464
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,680
the kiddie games you get in a 
supermarket, the ones that are 

465
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,120
bad enough that we get irritated
by them. 

466
00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:32,600
But we're now moving into all 
the my first particular ride, my

467
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:36,040
first one, and he's loving it. 
And then he recently became 

468
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,680
addicted to Yahtzee, which we 
love playing anyway, but he he 

469
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,400
demands we play multiple games 
that every weekend and the game 

470
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,240
can roll for it. 
Oh yeah, roll for it. 

471
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:49,120
Don't let don't let Craig get 
Craig from get into games. 

472
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,520
Know that you like Yahtzee. 
Oh, is that another one he 

473
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:54,840
hates? 
It's Yeah, I like his biggest, 

474
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,400
like his biggest game that he 
loves to hate on his dice 

475
00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,360
throne. 
And he just calls it Marvel 

476
00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:00,960
Yahtzee. 
And he yeah, because he hates 

477
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:02,840
Yahtzee, which is interesting. 
I have a friend here in 

478
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:07,320
Springfield who just hates 
Yahtzee, so we like to buy. 

479
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,240
We like to buy the different IP 
versions of. 

480
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,360
Yahtzee. 
And like, give that to him for 

481
00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:15,560
Christmas is kind of a gag, but.
Yeah, we're going to, we're 

482
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:17,880
visiting Craig next. 
I think it's next month or the 

483
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:19,400
month, I think it's August. 
We're going. 

484
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:20,560
I'm going to take Yahtzee out 
there. 

485
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:22,960
You definitely yeah, do should 
do. 

486
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:24,400
That. 
You should do that. 

487
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:25,920
Don't tell him I told you to do 
that. 

488
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,080
But that would be. 
There will be no evidence of 

489
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,640
this conversation. 
No, no, there will not. 

490
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,840
It's not like he's going to 
listen to this or watch this 

491
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,360
episode. 
Be like he's going to stop being

492
00:22:36,360 --> 00:22:38,920
my friend. 
That's crazy. 

493
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:40,200
That's great. 
No, that. 

494
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:41,120
That's awesome. 
So how? 

495
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,760
How old is your kid? 
He's 12, maybe 13, OK. 

496
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,240
OK, so I want to, I want to tell
you a quick story. 

497
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,400
This happened to me just this 
weekend when I was at the 

498
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,120
Tabletop Vibes studio hanging 
out. 

499
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:58,240
Adam has his daughter Talia. 
She's she's 6-6 or seven. 

500
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,520
I don't have any kids. 
I'm terrible at this, you know, 

501
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,080
so I don't, I don't have the 
parental, you know what I mean? 

502
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:07,120
You know what I'm talking. 
About. 

503
00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:08,120
Yeah, I know, I know. 
Anyway. 

504
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:13,440
But but she is amazing. 
She is like this just coolest 

505
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,000
kid ever. 
And so we were up, we were 

506
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,440
supposed to play some board 
games, but instead she wanted to

507
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,480
stay up with dad and she wanted 
to teach us Loricana. 

508
00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:27,520
And so we ended up yeah. 
So she's, she's crazy for 

509
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,920
Lacana. 
And so she taught us, you know, 

510
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,920
like so Adam and Adam and Mark 
were here and then she and I 

511
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:35,680
were here. 
And so we played each other. 

512
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:37,560
They played each other. 
And she taught us how to play. 

513
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,000
Laura, that's awesome. 
And it was, it was great. 

514
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,000
It was really great. 
I love that moment Because I 

515
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:44,480
don't have any kids. 
I don't get a lot of 

516
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:52,080
opportunities to interact at the
game table with kids. 

517
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:54,840
I mean, obviously I have nieces 
and nephews. 

518
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:57,480
My niece recently graduated high
school. 

519
00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,800
So she's, you know, she's 18 
now. 

520
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,000
She's not much of A gamer and 
she's in Louisiana. 

521
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:03,280
So I'm good to see her very 
often. 

522
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,920
My nephew is 5 or I think he's 
about to turn. 

523
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,560
He's about to turn 5 and is 
starting to kind of, you know, a

524
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,280
little bit play games. 
But then and I see more of him, 

525
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,760
but we haven't really played a 
lot of games. 

526
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,360
I don't I don't get that 
opportunity very often. 

527
00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:21,440
But so many of our friends both 
here in the US and the UK, y'all

528
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,080
all have kids of various ages 
and and what I like about the UK

529
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,520
Expo is that y'all you bring 
your families. 

530
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,800
I know that Craig and Becky, 
well, they brought their girls 

531
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:31,560
on the Sunday, but I. 
Know they did. 

532
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,720
Brad and Susie bring their kids 
for the whole time that they're 

533
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,280
there, and they manage that 
accordingly. 

534
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,760
So yeah, I'm always interested 
in hearing about how gamers 

535
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:47,440
interact with children of all 
ages and then teaching games and

536
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,360
what that's like. 
So, yeah, so thank you for 

537
00:24:49,360 --> 00:24:52,560
indulging me in that for a for a
moment and sharing because 

538
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,360
that's pretty great. 
It's tough to teach kids because

539
00:24:56,120 --> 00:24:57,640
you're not just teaching them 
games. 

540
00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,480
You've got to teach them that 
win loss thing. 

541
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,280
And my son was quite difficult 
at the beginning because it was 

542
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,880
OK if you won a game, but then 
he needed to win the next one. 

543
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:06,800
And if he didn't then he'd start
to get shirty about it. 

544
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,720
But you don't want to gift it to
them and teach them that, you 

545
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,560
know, it was easy because they 
moaned about it. 

546
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,480
So it was very difficult for us 
to get to that point. 

547
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:16,720
But he's really, really good 
with it now. 

548
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,360
So it's like you're you let him 
win and when you stop letting 

549
00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:22,960
him win, when he starts beating 
you like legitimately, that's 

550
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,560
when you know you've. 
No, it's I've avoided the 

551
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,680
letting him win. 
Oh, you did OK. 

552
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,000
Yeah. 
And so for, like, we started off

553
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:31,720
in the early days with Connect 
Four. 

554
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,800
And I would, I wouldn't let him 
win, but I would very much, if I

555
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,200
saw him making a move that was 
going to give me the win, I 

556
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,600
would just like, tap the top of 
the row and say, like, focus. 

557
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:46,640
And he'd pull back and like, 
look at everything. 

558
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,120
And it was teaching him to take 
his time. 

559
00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:51,600
Yahtzee was good for that as 
well because he would roll some 

560
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:53,920
dice, pick out two twos, and I'd
be like, but look at what else 

561
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,640
you've got. 
I wouldn't tell him what to do, 

562
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,600
but I'd tell him to sort of stop
and think about his turn, not 

563
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:01,160
Russia. 
And he's starting to really plan

564
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,320
his moves now. 
So yeah, that was quite good. 

565
00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:07,160
I imagine that's the real 
challenge is because you're 

566
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:12,320
you're teaching them to think 
and be aware rather than just 

567
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,400
teaching a basic mechanic of a 
game, right? 

568
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:16,160
Yeah, that's true. 
Yeah. 

569
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:18,040
He comes to me as well with a 
lot. 

570
00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:20,960
He comes in this room and looks 
and says like almost as if the 

571
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:22,560
games have got like a movie 
certificate on them. 

572
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:24,000
He's like, what age is that 
game? 

573
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,680
It's like it's not that you're 
not old enough that you are old 

574
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,000
enough to play it. 
It's whether you can understand 

575
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,040
the mechanics and everything. 
And so we'll get to those games,

576
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:33,480
I promise. 
But we've got to start. 

577
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:38,520
Yeah, I love that. 
I find that so I'm, I think that

578
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,960
this conversation, this about 
kids and everything it reminds 

579
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,000
me of. 
So there's a quote from the 

580
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,840
Roman orator Cicero. 
Cicero said that we were born 

581
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,760
not for ourselves, but for 
others. 

582
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,680
And if you know anything about 
Cicero, Cicero was all about the

583
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,200
key to the key to all of his 
philosophy in ancient Rome was 

584
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,360
trust, right? 
And it's always about putting 

585
00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:04,400
people first. 
The Republic in Rome can only 

586
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,760
survive if we put each other 
first. 

587
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,480
One could say that America could
learn a lesson from Cicero, but 

588
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:12,760
that's, you know, given our 
current situation. 

589
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:14,520
But that's, you know, that's 
neither here nor there. 

590
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,200
And it seems like that's exactly
what you're doing, especially 

591
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,720
with kids. 
You've got to put them first. 

592
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,320
I think that's true. 
Would you agree that that's just

593
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,240
true about teaching board games 
in general? 

594
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,680
Yeah, absolutely. 
Yeah, yeah, I know some people 

595
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,480
are on either side of the fence 
on this argument of whether when

596
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,080
you teach games, whether you 
should try to win or try not to 

597
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,280
win. 
You think I had a really good 

598
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,880
experience with Craig a few a 
month or so ago. 

599
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,680
He taught us, well, re taught me
Everdel because my first 

600
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,080
experience had been with what I 
would categorize as an 

601
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:51,080
aggressive teacher in that he 
was here's how you play the 

602
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,800
game, but I'm going to beat you.
And he was very much, you know, 

603
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,680
not being very helpful and 
telling me what I was doing 

604
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:01,000
wrong as if he was scolding me. 
Whereas I realised half through 

605
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,160
the game you can't make your 
players be afraid to ask you 

606
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,200
questions about their turns 
because they don't know the 

607
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:08,320
game. 
And I. 

608
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:10,440
Agree with that completely. 
Absolutely. 

609
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,320
And I was, there was something I
wanted to do, but it would 

610
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,840
reveal what I was planning. 
And I was a bit nervous about 

611
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,720
saying it, but I did in the end.
And Craig was brilliant. 

612
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:20,920
He told me, yeah, no, you want 
to do that because it'll get you

613
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,480
this many points and that. 
And then he didn't take that 

614
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,120
information and use it against 
me. 

615
00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:27,520
On his next turn. 
He did what he was going to do 

616
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:29,760
without information. 
I think that's really important 

617
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,440
is to make sure your players 
know that if you're teaching 

618
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,360
them the game, they can show you
the tile or they can ask a 

619
00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:37,600
question about the card that 
they want to use, because 

620
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:39,440
otherwise they're not going to. 
They're not going to learn 

621
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,400
everything. 
Right, right. 

622
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:46,280
I love that. 
How easy or difficult is it for 

623
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:52,080
you personally to put on that 
that teacher's hat, right and 

624
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,040
adjust how you're going to play 
the game when you're teaching 

625
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,400
versus when you're playing, 
right? 

626
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,040
Like, is it? 
Does that come naturally to you 

627
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,960
or? 
What it does, yeah, it does. 

628
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:06,040
Yeah. 
I I don't win many games, so I 

629
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:07,960
don't get into game expecting to
win. 

630
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:12,320
So to back off and be like, I 
want to help one of you guys win

631
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:17,520
is is a piece of pie. 
But I don't need to win the 

632
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:18,680
game. 
I know the game. 

633
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:19,960
I play the game, I'm teaching 
the game. 

634
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,560
It's one of you lucky not that's
going to have that experience 

635
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:24,520
and I want to help them have 
that. 

636
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,120
And that's what building a 
community is all about, right? 

637
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,080
Is encouraging that shared 
experience so that everyone has 

638
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,760
a good time and then kindling 
the flame, as Socrates said, 

639
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:34,480
right? 
Yeah, It's not to say that the 

640
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,800
teacher can't win the game, you 
know, if it plays out like that.

641
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,600
But I don't think you should, 
like, teach a game to a bunch of

642
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,240
people and then go hunt a 
killer, like, keep things to 

643
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,840
yourself. 
And yeah, I think, yeah, try and

644
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:49,200
encourage them. 
You want that? 

645
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,040
Exactly. 
So you have a fifth game on your

646
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:52,240
list. 
I do. 

647
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,280
Yeah, so tell me about tell me 
about the last game on the list.

648
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,840
Ignore everything I've said in 
the in the last four games, now 

649
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,600
we're going full evil. 
Oh, we're going full evil. 

650
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,800
This game Survive Escape from 
Atlantis, such a fun game to 

651
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,560
teach people. 
This is like the King of Tokyo. 

652
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,400
This is more about, it's less 
about the actual game itself and

653
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,600
it's more about building that 
experience and having that 

654
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,640
laughter around the table 
because it's a game that just 

655
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,880
builds chaos and turns everyone 
on each other, but in equal 

656
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:24,680
measures. 
So there's no, you're not 

657
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,600
picking on one person and giving
them a bad game. 

658
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,520
Everyone's having a bad game at 
the same time. 

659
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,000
It's just fantastic for that. 
I got to be honest with you, 

660
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:33,400
I've never played that one 
either. 

661
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,840
So you have to tell me a little 
bit about the game itself. 

662
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:40,160
Yeah, I don't know much. 
So it's you have a board with 

663
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,240
it's just water and you have 
tiles that make up an island in 

664
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:47,880
the middle, hex tiles, and they 
are mountains, jungle and sort 

665
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:49,600
of beach. 
And they're different 

666
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,480
thicknesses. 
So you'll place your meeples at 

667
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,320
the start of the game on these 
different tiles. 

668
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,000
And then you're trying to get to
the four corners of this board 

669
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,880
by moving them onto these boats 
and avoiding sea serpents, 

670
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:05,520
sharks, whales in the water. 
But it's the level of 

671
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,160
interaction on this game. 
So you move your meeple a 

672
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,480
certain amount of places and 
then you roll the dice and it 

673
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,480
lets you do things like move 
certain sea creatures. 

674
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,600
So you're all sharing the 
monsters on the board and moving

675
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,520
them. 
So I might move a shark 2 

676
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,840
towards you, but if you're lucky
enough to roll a shark on your 

677
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,040
turn, you might move it away 
towards me or towards someone 

678
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:25,600
else. 
You're taking up boats full of 

679
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:30,280
people and it's just we have a 
whenever they're over, that's 

680
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:31,640
usually one of the games we play
over them. 

681
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,080
And you have that meta with it 
as well afterwards because it's 

682
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,320
like, remember what you did to 
me last game coming straight 

683
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,200
from your boat this time? 
Yeah, it's good. 

684
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,960
Like I say, it's good because 
once that first person sort of 

685
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,560
triggers the aggression, 
everyone just devolves into 

686
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,800
that. 
But it's doesn't. 

687
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,720
Nobody wins. 
Like even if you do win with the

688
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:54,280
points, nobody really wins the 
game. 

689
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,520
There's like one guy left on the
beach all alone. 

690
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:57,640
Everyone else has just been 
wiped. 

691
00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,720
Oh. 
My gosh, that's great. 

692
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,120
That actually sounds fun and I 
really prefer more cooperative 

693
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,640
games generally. 
I mean, not not every game is 

694
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,200
cooperative, right, Obviously, 
even in my collection, but that 

695
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:11,960
sounds that does sound kind of 
fun. 

696
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:13,720
I think it's the campiness, 
right? 

697
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,960
It seems playful and campy and 
that that kind of it's not so 

698
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:19,840
hurtful. 
Yeah. 

699
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,920
Yeah. 
So what about what about your 

700
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,720
family? 
You talked a lot about gaming 

701
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,080
groups, but you had also 
mentioned when we were when we 

702
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,440
were talking about this idea, 
you had mentioned your family 

703
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,360
too. 
Does your does your family have 

704
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,520
like a favorite game that they 
that you have taught or they 

705
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:37,480
want you to reteach whenever you
get together? 

706
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,440
That is not meant to be a trick 
question. 

707
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,400
No, no, it's, I'm just thinking,
yeah, so my wife comes from a 

708
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,080
gaming family, whereas I don't. 
OK. 

709
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,400
And so when she introduced me to
them for the first time five 

710
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,560
years ago, I just fell in love 
with them because these guys 

711
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,160
play games to this level. 
It's fantastic. 

712
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,320
And we play a lot because of the
size of us. 

713
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,360
Normally when we go around 
there's seven people, so we play

714
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,000
a lot of the big party games 
like Your Cash and Guns, which 

715
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,560
is fantastic. 
Secret Hitler, which is evil but

716
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,960
fun. 
A lot of the small box card 

717
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,200
games like Spicy Wandering 
Towers is I think he got my 

718
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:11,400
brother-in-law got that last 
year. 

719
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:12,840
That's a brilliant game. 
Six players again. 

720
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:14,840
That game, that game is a 
fantastic. 

721
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,040
It's amazing. 
It's it gets better with the 

722
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,760
it's a higher player count. 
Yes, although it scales well. 

723
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:22,800
It's very good at 2. 
It's very good at two. 

724
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,680
Yeah. 
It just gets, it gets struck. 

725
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,880
It's tighter. 
Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. 

726
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,480
That's a good one. 
So what's, what's their favorite

727
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:32,960
like? 
What's the what are you guys 

728
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:34,960
putting aside teaching? 
Like when your family gets 

729
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:36,760
together, what is what are they 
like? 

730
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,400
Secret hit like gets requested a
lot. 

731
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,160
It is, yeah. 
OK. 

732
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,400
Have you tried that? 
No, because that's a 

733
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,800
controversial game and it's a 
topic here in America where 

734
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,520
people have very strong feelings
about it one way or the other. 

735
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,600
So we just kind of avoid it all 
together, right? 

736
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,200
Understandable. 
So it's a social deduction game 

737
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,040
though, right? 
I mean, at its cores, yeah. 

738
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,360
So there's I think. 
I can't speak for anyone. 

739
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,240
I can only just talk about my 
observations since I've never 

740
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,719
played Secret Hitler, but I've 
heard people share their 

741
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,400
opinions and I understand them 
because the theme is very 

742
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,600
controversial. 
I think there are there are 

743
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:20,199
other social deduction games 
that execute better maybe, and 

744
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:24,120
so they're more enjoyable to the
current American audience. 

745
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:25,760
Again, I can't speak for the 
rest of the world. 

746
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,000
Yeah, that's understandable. 
I think that's why Secret 

747
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,000
Hitler's just kind of one of 
those games that it's, it's like

748
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:37,360
there are there are there's some
key topics that you just avoid 

749
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,239
when you're at the dinner table 
with your friends and family. 

750
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,239
Like you don't talk about 
politics, you don't talk about 

751
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,280
religion, you don't talk about 
abortion, and you don't talk 

752
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,880
about secretly. 
No, that's true. 

753
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:51,760
Yeah. 
So just kind of one of the so 

754
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:53,280
it's interesting. 
It's just you hear you talk 

755
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,400
about that. 
And so that's that's a game that

756
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,760
it's I guess why though. 
Yeah, it's a surprise they've 

757
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:02,000
not done like a reskin, maybe to
make it more marketable. 

758
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,720
I want to say that they did but 
so to be honest I'm like the 

759
00:35:06,720 --> 00:35:10,440
worst person to talk about this 
because I don't like social 

760
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,960
deduction games and I don't. 
I pretend. 

761
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,000
And as an extension I really 
hate trader mechanic games. 

762
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:25,000
I have through childhood trauma.
I have trust issues, so lying to

763
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,520
my face. 
I love Craig and Becky and I 

764
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,600
know that Becky's favorite game 
is Blood on the Clock Tower and 

765
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:33,680
she and I talked about it. 
She knows this. 

766
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,120
I can't, I can't play Blood on 
the Clock Tower, but I have 

767
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,800
remotely with Craig and their 
group, right? 

768
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:41,000
So we'll get on. 
With me, yeah. 

769
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,000
Yes. 
You only won a game. 

770
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:45,880
Did. 
We did. 

771
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,360
We win a game. 
One of us was a mathematician 

772
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:54,080
and one of us was something 
else, Clockmaker or something 

773
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,400
like that. 
OK, so Craig, Craig and I learn.

774
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,040
Craig learned. 
He just makes me the clockmaker.

775
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,720
OK. 
Because like, you know, yeah, 

776
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,440
because there was one. 
There was a game that we played 

777
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:10,200
and I just, I got angry, right. 
And so we had to have a private 

778
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:11,720
chat later and he's like, OK, 
what happened? 

779
00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:13,840
And I'm like, OK, yeah, I don't,
you know, I'm really frustrated 

780
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:15,480
here is this. 
And so we talked it out and I 

781
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,000
think, I think he's like, I'll 
just assign the I'll just give 

782
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,920
Peter the client maker. 
It lets me role play and like, 

783
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,880
you know, whatever, because I, 
the only reason I play is to be 

784
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,720
social with y'all. 
You know, it's just chat. 

785
00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:31,160
Let's get in the private group. 
And I know I'm supposed to help 

786
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,120
you figure out who the bad guy 
is, but everything. 

787
00:36:33,240 --> 00:36:34,720
So how's your how's your wife 
and kids? 

788
00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:37,200
You know, like, yeah, I'm the 
worst. 

789
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:41,920
I'm also bad at lying, which 
means if I were the if I were 

790
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,640
the demon or in werewolf, if I'm
the bad guy, whatever it is, 

791
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:48,520
you're going to know because I 
can't lie. 

792
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,360
Well, you know, it's just. 
Yeah, there's there's a couple 

793
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,800
of games. 
I know Spy 4 is 1. 

794
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,800
Where it's the pretender is 
another one. 

795
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:01,920
It's games where you get you 
hand out cards and one person is

796
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,320
the spy or the pretender. 
So they don't have any 

797
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,120
information but everyone else 
has like a word that you've got 

798
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,800
to then kind of give clues for. 
Or like fake artist goes to New 

799
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,600
York, that kind of stuff. 
And if you are picked first as 

800
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,840
the spy or the pretender and you
have 0 information to go on, 

801
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,440
like if I get that card and then
they say Brian you're first, I'm

802
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:21,680
like I'll just grin. 
I'm like yeah it's me. 

803
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,000
I can't even attempt to play 
this around because my face just

804
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,000
gives that way. 
I struggle with the games. 

805
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,880
We did Cocktail for a while, my 
wife and I, but we struggle with

806
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:34,280
that and with Werewolf as well 
because it's you need to 

807
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,800
understand all the roles and 
Crocktail has so many roles in 

808
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:38,600
it. 
Werewolf not so much. 

809
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,640
Like Secret Hitler doesn't have 
as many games like Coup. 

810
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,120
Coup is really good because it's
just five cards and you're 

811
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:49,320
always changing through them 
that. 

812
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,360
So I prefer games like Coup that
just have like very limited 

813
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,080
bluffing information. 
KU is one of my favorite games, 

814
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:00,840
and I've had people question me.
It's like, because I'm very 

815
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,440
vocal about the fact that I have
trust issues, right? 

816
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,800
And so if we're gonna have a 
social deduction game, I just 

817
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:12,600
usually politely decline. 
And if people ask, then I'll, 

818
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:14,360
I'll tell them. 
But I mean, I'm gonna open up a 

819
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:15,800
book. 
So whatever you want to know 

820
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,360
about me, I'll tell you. 
And if you want to really get 

821
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:22,320
down deep into like how I 
discovered that this was really 

822
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,720
triggering for me, you know, I 
would share that story. 

823
00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:28,480
But COO is 1. 
I really enjoy, I think because 

824
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,800
yes, bluffing is, is lying for 
sure. 

825
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:35,240
I, I recognize that as a truth. 
The fact though, with with is 

826
00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:40,680
that you can, you can be honest 
the whole time and win the game.

827
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,120
You really can. 
So you don't have to bluff. 

828
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,920
But when I'm in a position where
the way the cards are, I have to

829
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,240
bluff. 
Like, you know, if I have two 

830
00:38:50,240 --> 00:38:53,640
contessas and if anyone's ever 
played Coup contessas, just 

831
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,960
block the assassin and that's 
the only thing they do. 

832
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:02,280
So I have no choice but to claim
that I have a role that I don't 

833
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:06,240
have because I happen to have 
drawn 2 of the same role and 

834
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,440
they essentially don't do 
anything, you know? 

835
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,400
So I've fallen into it's 
situational. 

836
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,120
I'm usually not very good and 
most people call me on it 

837
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:16,800
occasionally. 
I get through. 

838
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,840
Yeah, and sometimes I get 
sometimes, sure, people are 

839
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,800
like, OK, you're the captain, 
whatever or whatever role I'm 

840
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:26,120
bluffing on. 
But yeah, so I do enjoy that. 

841
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:27,760
I understand there's a little 
bit of bluffing. 

842
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,720
I mean, I've played, you know, 
traditional like, you know, 

843
00:39:30,720 --> 00:39:34,760
poker and Texas holdem and other
other traditional card games 

844
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:38,280
where bluffing is a key 
component. 

845
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,680
So I'm not, I'm just never good 
at them because it's not a skill

846
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:45,880
that I developed because of my 
internal mechanisms that prevent

847
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,480
me from doing so. 
But OK. 

848
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,920
So games to teach, to create a 
community with Carcassonne, 

849
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,760
Querkel love letter. 
These are more friendly games. 

850
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,840
King of Tokyo, little bit of 
chaos because it's mostly 

851
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:02,360
random. 
And then we get into survive 

852
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,640
escape from Atlantis, little bit
more evil, I think you said. 

853
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,320
And then just kind of a fan 
favorite of your family secret 

854
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,080
Hitler. 
That's that's a good group of of

855
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:14,200
games that kind of encourages 
the interactivity, the putting 

856
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:16,000
people first. 
All the things that the Greek 

857
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:17,240
philosophers have been talking 
about. 

858
00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:19,920
I feel like you've really 
executed these well. 

859
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,360
So I do have one last thing I 
want to talk about. 

860
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:28,360
So again. 
Roman philosopher, Seneca, he 

861
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,840
said that when we teach, we also
learn. 

862
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:38,080
So my question to you is, do you
agree with that sentiment? 

863
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:43,280
Do you find that when you teach 
games, you either you also 

864
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:47,440
learn, Either you learn to be a 
better player of the game you're

865
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,320
teaching in the future, or you 
just learn to be a better 

866
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,400
teacher when you're teaching in 
the future? 

867
00:40:54,240 --> 00:40:57,960
What do you think about that? 
Yeah, definitely learn to be a 

868
00:40:57,960 --> 00:40:59,360
better teacher. 
Any experience? 

869
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,120
You take away what worked and 
what didn't in your teaching 

870
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,240
method, then you just fix that 
the next time. 

871
00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:06,480
Specific games, It's just rules 
that people are having trouble 

872
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:08,240
getting. 
You can work on getting those 

873
00:41:08,240 --> 00:41:11,400
across easier and then working 
out game types that just aren't 

874
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,480
connecting with people, sort of 
take those out and try 

875
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,040
different. 
So if nobody liked the 

876
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,520
aggressive games at all when 
they were complaining about the 

877
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:20,280
fact that they're always 
fighting each other, I'd take 

878
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,600
those bottom two out and I'd 
find two more to bring in. 

879
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,360
Yeah. 
So definitely every every 

880
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,000
teaching session is a learning 
session that way. 

881
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,160
Yeah. 
Have you, has there ever been an

882
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:35,040
instance where you learn 
something, something vital about

883
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,800
yourself through teaching a 
board game? 

884
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,480
Like maybe you discovered 
something about yourself that 

885
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,760
kind of helped you in your own 
self exploration, the journey 

886
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:45,960
that we're all going on? 
Have there any been, has board 

887
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:49,280
games and teaching board games 
ever facilitated that for you? 

888
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:50,600
Yeah, we're going to get deep 
now. 

889
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,520
Now we are leaning forward but. 
Yeah. 

890
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:58,040
No, I've been saying so 
profound, just that I'd love. 

891
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:03,000
I mean, I'm in the process of 
I've gone back to university, so

892
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,720
I don't have a job alone. 
I'm studying with the goal of 

893
00:42:05,720 --> 00:42:10,520
going into teaching, so. 
Oh, OK, yeah, having confidence 

894
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:12,760
and being positive about 
teaching ball games is going to 

895
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,000
be going up into teaching kids 
more than ball games. 

896
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:18,240
Right. 
What would you? 

897
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,440
So once you're done, you've 
completed university, what would

898
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,920
you be teaching? 
Or is it general subjects or is 

899
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,920
it a single subject like? 
Well, I'm, I'm currently 

900
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,560
studying English literature and 
creative writing, so I'll 

901
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:31,960
probably be going in that 
direction. 

902
00:42:33,240 --> 00:42:34,920
So you're. 
Going to be bringing people to 

903
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:39,520
read and think critically about 
what they're reading and then 

904
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:43,960
how that'll help them be 
creative and write their own 

905
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:45,440
works. 
And maybe you'll do a little 

906
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:48,520
writing yourself. 
Yeah, I enjoy, love writing. 

907
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:50,480
I do it a lot. 
Have some for years. 

908
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,640
I would argue though, that the 
teaching of board games to 

909
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,160
either new game, casual gamers, 
new gamers, family members who 

910
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,360
aren't gamers, like, I think 
there's a lot of skills that 

911
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:05,600
there's soft skills that you 
you're developing that are going

912
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:09,680
to be really helpful for you in 
the real world. 

913
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,000
Not that gaming's not the real 
world, but you know what I mean 

914
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,440
in your, in your alternative 
life, right? 

915
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:15,360
Because. 
You're really. 

916
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:17,320
This is the real. 
This is, Yeah. 

917
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:21,760
That's why I say in your 
alternative career as a teacher 

918
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:24,720
as opposed to a game, right, 
Alternative lifestyle, as it 

919
00:43:24,720 --> 00:43:27,160
were. 
Yeah, that's amazing. 

920
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:28,760
Were there, I know you had a few
others. 

921
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:30,280
Any other games that you want to
talk about? 

922
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,960
Any other experiences that you'd
want to share? 

923
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:37,600
We mentioned roll for it. 
That's a really, my son picked 

924
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:39,920
it up so quickly and that's just
basic dice rolling and then 

925
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,840
placed into scorecards. 
Going back to bluffing. 

926
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:47,920
Cockroach Poker is another one 
where it's about the experience 

927
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:49,400
at the table. 
It's about everyone laughing 

928
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:51,960
with everyone else passing those
cards around. 

929
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:57,560
Have you played Cockroach Poker?
So I'm going to, OK, You asked. 

930
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:00,280
I'm going to tell you a story. 
It reveals a lot about me. 

931
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:05,280
I think Gareth talked about 
Cockroach Poker and I was like, 

932
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,000
I think I should get that game. 
Like I think he encouraged me 

933
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:10,360
so. 
But we picked up a copy at a 

934
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,880
local game store. 
We brought it over to my inlaws,

935
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:18,240
my wife's family for Christmas 
and and we played it and I'm 

936
00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:20,200
never going to play that game 
again. 

937
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,200
I didn't behave well. 
I mean, I didn't. 

938
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:25,880
OK. 
Like I'm a grown at the time. 

939
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,720
I'm a grown man of 47. 
I'm now 50. 

940
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:33,920
And I mean, like I threw a fit. 
I got really I got really angry.

941
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,800
I'm I'm not, I'm not proud of 
this moment at all. 

942
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,880
But I mean, I behaved like a 
child and just I had to leave 

943
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,440
the room. 
It's it's yeah, I can't, it's 

944
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:48,240
it's because it's intentional. 
The only way to win is through 

945
00:44:48,240 --> 00:44:52,240
deception and cheating. 
And that's, I mean, that's the 

946
00:44:52,240 --> 00:44:57,120
whole thing that the other game 
is cheating Moth, right? 

947
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:00,880
Yeah, both of them. 
I just now I, I do have the 

948
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,000
ability to, you know, 
self-control. 

949
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,360
This is This is why, This is why
I'm asking you all these like 

950
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,760
deep questions, because when I 
play a game, this stuff comes 

951
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:11,720
out right. 
So I know not to play them. 

952
00:45:11,720 --> 00:45:15,200
But if we're going to play, I 
simply resign myself to the fact

953
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,080
that I'm not going to win. 
I'm not. 

954
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,320
And not only am I not going to 
win, I'm not even going to play 

955
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,160
the game well. 
But if everyone else at the 

956
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:27,400
table really wants to play, I 
will do my best and I will check

957
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:32,560
my emotions at the door. 
Because remember, right, we're, 

958
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:34,920
we're supposed to be doing this 
for others, right? 

959
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:36,760
We're not born for ourselves, 
but for others. 

960
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:39,240
So if the rest of the table 
wants to play Cheating Moth or 

961
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:41,640
Cockroach Poker, then for the 
greater good. 

962
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,600
Right. 
It's an odd game because I've 

963
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:47,320
talked about, we've talked about
the inclusivity of everyone and 

964
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:49,280
make sure everyone's got the 
good positive memories from the 

965
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:51,640
game. 
And that is one game that I own.

966
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:55,320
I think that everyone wins apart
from one person. 

967
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:57,440
There's no real winner, there's 
only one loser. 

968
00:45:57,440 --> 00:45:59,560
So that feels like it's a 
negative game. 

969
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:02,080
But it's probably one of the 
ones that I've had the most 

970
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,240
requests to play after teaching 
it again, right? 

971
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,440
So even people that lose that 
have had a lot of fun and want 

972
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,200
to do it again. 
Well, to be fair, I'm an 

973
00:46:11,240 --> 00:46:16,880
oddball. 
Next time you're over, we're 

974
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:18,720
playing, I'm bringing my coffee,
we're playing. 

975
00:46:19,240 --> 00:46:24,280
So I will tell you currently 
Katie and I have plans to return

976
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:26,600
to the UK next year. 
Oh awesome. 

977
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,200
One of one of the things that we
discovered, so first of all, so 

978
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:33,440
last year was my first time 
traveling internationally. 

979
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:36,320
I'd never left the country. 
And so I got the bug. 

980
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:38,400
I was like, Oh my God, we got 
to, we got to go here. 

981
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,360
We got to go here. 
I mean, you know, OK, great. 

982
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:43,400
But international travel still 
is expensive. 

983
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:47,360
So we've got to manage that. 
And you know, we kept talking 

984
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:49,320
about and talking about and 
Katie had such a great 

985
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,200
experience meeting everyone. 
She's like, well, maybe we can, 

986
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:56,280
we can afford every other year. 
And still my problem is, is that

987
00:46:56,280 --> 00:47:00,240
when I was in when I was in 
university, I studied non spoken

988
00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:02,840
languages, right? 
So I mean like I got a degree in

989
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:04,520
Latin. 
Ancient. 

990
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:09,720
Greek, I studied classical 
Chinese, I studied Coptic and 

991
00:47:09,720 --> 00:47:12,440
Sanskrit, right? 
Because I was an ancient 

992
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:14,280
historian and studying the 
ancient world. 

993
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:18,760
So I don't know how to speak any
foreign languages right read 

994
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:22,000
ancient languages which has not 
helped me for international 

995
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:22,680
travel. 
No. 

996
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,960
But so we're thinking about 
going back to UK next year and 

997
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:29,120
there were cut. 
We want to spend, while we won't

998
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:31,960
spend four or five days in 
London like we did, there were a

999
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:34,160
few things we wanted to do that 
we just couldn't squeeze in. 

1000
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,240
So we'll start there, two days 
in London and then we're going 

1001
00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:38,880
to kind of move it. 
But this time we're going to go 

1002
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:40,200
up to Scotland. 
We didn't get that. 

1003
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:45,360
We didn't get that option. 
But yeah, so that's possible. 

1004
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:49,480
It is possible that we could 
play Backroach Poker. 

1005
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:52,120
Yeah, I'll play. 
I will play it with you. 

1006
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:54,280
I will do that. 
And then you can laugh at me 

1007
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:57,760
when I get angry and you start 
seeing smoke come out of my 

1008
00:47:57,800 --> 00:47:59,960
ears. 
But I will say what I have 

1009
00:47:59,960 --> 00:48:02,320
observed about that game is that
people do enjoy it. 

1010
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:06,360
It really makes people laugh. 
It it, it generates that sense 

1011
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,360
of community which I love and I 
appreciate it. 

1012
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:12,080
I just I can't. 
You know, yeah, not every game 

1013
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,040
is for every person. 
It's not. 

1014
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,080
We had that conversation this 
weekend with a Table top vibes 

1015
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:19,680
studio. 
It was like, not every game is 

1016
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,160
for everyone. 
And you can't, if you're a 

1017
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:25,760
designer, you can't design A 
game for everyone, right? 

1018
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:28,320
It's just, it's just impossible.
So yeah. 

1019
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,440
So that's all I got. 
Do you have any final thoughts 

1020
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:32,800
or anything else that you want 
to share? 

1021
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,320
No, I'm just, yeah, I'm just 
going to carry on going out 

1022
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:38,400
there and trying to get as many 
people into the hobbies 

1023
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:39,760
possible. 
I love it. 

1024
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:41,120
Yeah. 
Keep keep building that 

1025
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:43,080
community. 
I I really love that you're 

1026
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:46,040
willing to put yourself out 
there and teach games to non 

1027
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:49,760
gamers and casual gamers. 
I think it's hard teaching. 

1028
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:52,920
Teaching games can be difficult.
And I love that you've been 

1029
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:57,080
you've been very careful to 
curate games that are easily 

1030
00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:58,280
accessible. 
That make it. 

1031
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,320
It takes some of the burden of 
teaching off of your shoulders 

1032
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:05,440
because the games themselves are
just so accessible. 

1033
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:09,240
Yeah. 
So do you have do you teach, are

1034
00:49:09,240 --> 00:49:12,280
you as effective a teacher with 
like a heavier game like a heavy

1035
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:16,600
lacerter or a euro or do you are
those are more struggle or what 

1036
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:18,360
is how is that for you like in 
general? 

1037
00:49:18,720 --> 00:49:21,200
Yeah, I do try to be. 
There's a lot of games where 

1038
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:24,400
we'll play them a lot at two 
players and I was one that 

1039
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,080
larger player count experience. 
We have a couple of friends that

1040
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:28,920
come over that like heavier 
games. 

1041
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:34,000
The last visit I taught them as 
when they're my Garfield games. 

1042
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:36,520
It's a good one. 
And I love teaching them. 

1043
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:38,880
They're the kind of games that I
have to have the manual because 

1044
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:41,000
there's so much stuff. 
I know and I do. 

1045
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:42,960
I regularly forget things. 
I'll get half for a game of 

1046
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:46,120
something, be like, there's this
other rule that I completely 

1047
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:48,680
forgot to mention, or I'll get 
so into the teach. 

1048
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:51,920
And then we start playing and I 
realized I've not told everyone 

1049
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:55,040
what the win condition is or 
what we score on this game. 

1050
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:59,080
So yeah, the bigger the game, 
the harder it is for me. 

1051
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:01,680
I do love doing it still. 
I just love teaching games. 

1052
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:05,120
So I will say to try to help you
along with that, I know a lot of

1053
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:07,320
people know this already and you
probably already know it. 

1054
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,080
You probably learned it. 
But so one of the things that 

1055
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:15,040
because my wife does most of the
teaching right, she's got, she's

1056
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,600
got a lot of opinions about 
rulebooks and how rulebooks are 

1057
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:21,280
laid out. 
And she's, she's very skilled at

1058
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:24,000
analyzing and renting A rulebook
guitar. 

1059
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:28,000
She's she's the teacher. 
I'm the, I'm, I'm the passenger 

1060
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,800
Princess, I get to just like sit
there and let her teach me a 

1061
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:33,520
game, but that's just she she 
needs that right? 

1062
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:35,520
When we hit the table, I not 
forgot where I was going with 

1063
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:36,760
that. 
Why did I bring that up in the 

1064
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:38,560
1st place? 
It means that I don't teach as 

1065
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:39,560
well, right? 
Yes. 

1066
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:43,080
So she has said on countless 
occasions and she learned that 

1067
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:45,320
when she's teaching a game, no 
matter what the game is, the 

1068
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:49,040
first thing she teaches is how 
to win, right? 

1069
00:50:49,240 --> 00:50:51,360
That's just how she starts. 
If we're going, if we're going 

1070
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:55,040
to play from the moon, if we're 
going to play men Nefer, if 

1071
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:58,000
we're going to play Civilution, 
which is some pretty heavy 

1072
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:00,000
games. 
The first thing to do, the first

1073
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:03,800
way to win is scoring victory 
points or getting these, you 

1074
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:07,040
know, whatever the win condition
is and she starts there. 

1075
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:09,280
Get that out of the way so you 
don't forget. 

1076
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:11,600
And then you can. 
And then you start breaking it 

1077
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:13,000
in. 
I know a lot of I know a lot of 

1078
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:14,680
my friends. 
That's the first thing they say 

1079
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:17,040
too, right? 
The way to win is to have the 

1080
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:18,320
most victory points at the end 
of the game. 

1081
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:20,800
OK, well, why do you say that? 
Well, because now I'm going to 

1082
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:22,400
tell you how you get victory 
points and. 

1083
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:24,280
Teaching. 
Games, they seem to start with 

1084
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:27,880
that, and it seems to be a 
successful guiding principle for

1085
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:30,240
teaching games. 
So hey, take that. 

1086
00:51:30,240 --> 00:51:31,840
If that works for you, great. 
If it doesn't. 

1087
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:34,320
Yeah, I'm trying to whatever, 
whatever works. 

1088
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,000
My wife sometimes for the bigger
game, she likes to know she's 

1089
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,680
like, So what we doing here? 
And a lot of the big games have 

1090
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:43,080
that kind of paragraph at the 
beginning of the rule book, like

1091
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:46,960
that set the scene and give the 
story or like you are ancient 

1092
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:49,560
philosophers doing this and she 
likes that because she's like, 

1093
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:51,240
what am I trying to do in this 
game? 

1094
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:53,480
Yeah, No, that's yeah. 
I should probably start with the

1095
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:55,760
scoring conditions just because 
that's the I always forget 

1096
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:57,520
because it's at the end of the 
rule book, right? 

1097
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,480
Yeah, that is generally true. 
It is at the end of the book and

1098
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,440
then you forget. 
And you get this, you get the 

1099
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:06,400
bigger games as well as you're 
teaching you like. 

1100
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:09,160
And then you get this card. 
And I'll get back to that in a 

1101
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:12,920
minute because you keep forking 
off at different, different 

1102
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:14,240
things, right? 
But yeah. 

1103
00:52:14,240 --> 00:52:17,160
Absolutely, yeah. 
That's why a good rule book is 

1104
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:19,680
so important. 
If you're interested there, 

1105
00:52:19,720 --> 00:52:24,960
let's see top three games where 
the rule book is laid out really

1106
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:29,080
well for you to learn it as well
as teach it. 

1107
00:52:29,240 --> 00:52:32,160
And some of these are big games,
an age contrived. 

1108
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:36,880
That is that rule book is laid 
out so beautifully. 

1109
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:41,960
Like you can you pick it up and 
you can go page by page and just

1110
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:45,640
start the teach civilution. 
Civilution is another one I want

1111
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:48,880
to try Good. 
It's a really good laid out rule

1112
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:54,880
book that makes the teach done 
well and then men Nefer 

1113
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:56,360
everyone. 
I think people are tired of 

1114
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:59,440
hearing me talk about it. 
So civil illusion and men Nefer.

1115
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:02,760
We both played at the beginning 
of this year at gay mini. 

1116
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:05,560
We each at the play the win 
library. 

1117
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:08,920
So we both like I want a copy of
men never she want a copy of 

1118
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:12,800
civil illusion. 
So yeah, it was really easy for 

1119
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:14,880
us to learn it at the table at 
the moment. 

1120
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:18,000
And Katie has men. 
Nefer is so complicated because 

1121
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,520
there's so many, so many actions
available to you. 

1122
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:26,080
And I've talked about this game,
it's on blue in the mouth. 

1123
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:32,440
So the theme really informs the 
the the game play so. 

1124
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:34,680
That and. 
That that is really excellent. 

1125
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:36,520
And then the rule book is laid 
out well. 

1126
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:40,160
So those are like the top three 
games where the rule book is 

1127
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:42,560
just like she's got some more. 
I can't think of them at the 

1128
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:44,640
moment. 
It's also it's also the reason 

1129
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:46,960
why I'm just a terrible teacher.
She teaches everything. 

1130
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:50,560
The only game that I I can teach
blindfolded. 

1131
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:53,960
Everyone knows what it is. 
Here comes obsession. 

1132
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:55,880
Yep. 
Without Π. 

1133
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:59,800
Man, we need to play that. 
That's what we need to do. 

1134
00:53:59,960 --> 00:54:02,160
I'll play that. 
If we're gonna play Cockroach 

1135
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:04,560
Poker, we'll play Obsession 
before or after. 

1136
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:06,760
That's fair. 
Actually, if I have to play 

1137
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:10,400
Cockroach Poker and that's gonna
be tough for me, I should be 

1138
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:13,520
rewarded with us getting to play
Obsession afterwards. 

1139
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:15,760
Yeah, that's fair enough. 
There you go. 

1140
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:18,360
I will suffer playing obsession.
It's so. 

1141
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:20,360
Amazing. 
It's. 

1142
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:21,680
Great. 
That's a great game. 

1143
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:25,560
So tell people where they can 
find you on social so that they 

1144
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:27,760
can like, you know, ask you any 
questions about teaching or 

1145
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:29,800
whatever. 
Yeah, so I'm on Instagram as 

1146
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:31,520
always play Blue. 
I do have a website 

1147
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:33,920
alwaysplayblue.com. 
I'm actually just blog on that 

1148
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:35,960
one. 
I've just put my OK UK gave 

1149
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:38,120
extra updates on there for the 
for the last weekend. 

1150
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:40,720
That's good. 
OK, I'm gonna have to check that

1151
00:54:40,720 --> 00:54:42,960
out. 
So it's always plays blue. 

1152
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:47,800
Dot com always always. 
Yeah, so guys, thank you for 

1153
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:49,880
watching. 
Thanks for your thank you so 

1154
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:53,080
much for your patience with me. 
Again, all your well wishes is a

1155
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:54,440
bit struggling through 
bronchitis. 

1156
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:57,200
That was not fun. 
Still not 100%, you know. 

1157
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:00,320
Hey, there we are. 
Please make sure to like and 

1158
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:02,840
subscribe. 
If you're watching this on 

1159
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:07,160
YouTube, please make sure to 
like on Spotify or any other 

1160
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:09,600
streaming service. 
The challenge I think is that 

1161
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:13,640
you guys, you in the ether, 
you're all listening to this in 

1162
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:18,320
your cars and then you forget to
like it or leave a comment, 

1163
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:21,560
leave a comment. 
Tell us stories about games that

1164
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:25,480
you enjoy teaching that help 
build community as a call to 

1165
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:26,840
action. 
Like y'all know that's what I'm 

1166
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:28,680
all about, right? 
Building community games. 

1167
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:30,800
You love to teach that, you 
know, you could put those in the

1168
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:32,360
comments, YouTube, Spotify, 
wherever. 

1169
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:34,240
Let us know if you have 
questions for me, if you have 

1170
00:55:34,240 --> 00:55:36,920
questions for Brian, maybe he's 
got some teaching tips because I

1171
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:40,480
don't have teaching tips. 
You know, I don't teach, but I 

1172
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:43,520
know that Brians got more games 
on his list that he didn't share

1173
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:45,920
because we kind of said five and
we threw in a few more. 

1174
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:49,920
So yeah, reach out, post on 
YouTube. 

1175
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:53,040
We'd like to hear it. 
Remember, October will be the 

1176
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:55,240
one year since the launch of our
YouTube channel. 

1177
00:55:55,240 --> 00:55:57,320
We would like to get to 100 
subscribers. 

1178
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:00,240
We're currently at 69. 
It's a humble little number 

1179
00:56:00,240 --> 00:56:02,120
there, 69. 
So. 

1180
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:03,640
So thanks again for watching. 
Brian. 

1181
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:06,200
Thanks for joining me. 
This was a great conversation. 

1182
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:08,080
I really appreciate you taking 
the time. 

1183
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:11,360
Also, guys, if you haven't 
noticed, so Brian's painting his

1184
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:13,840
house and he's not painting the 
room blue. 

1185
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:19,760
And yes, yeah, I know that you 
posted about that and I figured 

1186
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:21,320
I had to take a stab at you a 
little bit. 

1187
00:56:21,720 --> 00:56:24,680
I did, yeah. 
Yeah, he did not paint it blue. 

1188
00:56:24,720 --> 00:56:26,680
Yeah, that's OK. 
That's alright. 

1189
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:28,720
We love you. 
Anyway, thanks again for 

1190
00:56:28,720 --> 00:56:30,840
joining. 
Thanks for the conversation, 

1191
00:56:31,720 --> 00:56:34,720
thanks for watching. 
Everyone please take care and 

1192
00:56:34,720 --> 00:56:37,880
remember to take care of each 
other and play more games.