1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,840 Welcome to Meeple to Meeple uniting players around the 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:06,600 world, a 30 minute exploration of PJ and Gareth's four-game 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:09,480 experiences from across both sides of the Atlantic. 4 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:12,720 Each episode, they share their thoughts and opinions on the 5 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,280 World of War games, including their favorite themes, games, 6 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:21,160 hot topics, and much, much more. Hey guys, and welcome to episode 7 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,760 67. That's right, we are still here. 8 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:30,440 And today is Don't get deserted. We're going to talk about a new 9 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:32,479 game coming to Kickstarter called Isla. 10 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,520 As always, I am PJ. And I'm Gareth. 11 00:00:36,160 --> 00:00:39,760 And we've got an exciting never before. 12 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:41,440 We've got 3 guests today, Gareth. 13 00:00:42,160 --> 00:00:47,760 This could be chaotic, could be sensational, but we're going to 14 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:51,920 learn about Isla, that is that I got to play first of all the UK 15 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:58,560 Games Expo in 2022, right? And the team and Isla kindly 16 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:03,160 sent me a protocopy, which I've been playing with friends and 17 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,960 family. And the preview goes up on 18 00:01:05,960 --> 00:01:09,040 Tuesday. But let's everyone introduce 19 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:10,760 themselves. I'm going to pick it. 20 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,880 Pick from my rights, Aaron. Hello. 21 00:01:15,320 --> 00:01:16,840 Yeah. Firstly, thanks for for having 22 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,320 us on on the podcast. We're very excited to be and 23 00:01:19,320 --> 00:01:22,600 hopefully it's not too chaotic for having three of us here. 24 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:28,440 Yeah, I'm Aaron. So yeah, one of three in Ocean 25 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:32,240 City Games, the publishing company that has created Isla. 26 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,800 I tend to do a lot of the sort of behind the scenes number 27 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:41,360 crunching. Yeah, some bits of art and yeah, 28 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,200 and just general game design. OK. 29 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:46,000 Thanks, Aaron. Aaron's. 30 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:48,560 Aaron's The Number Cruncher. I like that, yeah. 31 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:50,640 Is is. Does that mean you're the data, 32 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:52,720 dude? The data, dude. 33 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:55,480 Yeah, I like that one. That's one of the nicer 34 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:56,600 Monica's. I think that's OK. 35 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:58,360 I'm a data dude too. We could talk later. 36 00:01:58,560 --> 00:01:59,520 Excellent. OK, cool. 37 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:06,720 Hi, I'm Alita, so I tend to do most of the critiquing when it 38 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:10,199 comes to the games that we make. So I haven't had the initial 39 00:02:10,199 --> 00:02:13,960 ideas yet, but I come in and go, oh try this, try this, take that 40 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,680 out. And also I'm the one behind our 41 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,160 social, so our marketing and things like that. 42 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:20,600 Great. Thanks. 43 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:23,760 So that confirms that confirms my story. 44 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:28,480 Olita is the boss of this team. Most definitely, most definitely 45 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:29,720 and. The podcast right there. 46 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:34,560 And everyone's just nodding, Even I'm nodding. 47 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,680 And Alex, the final third. The final third. 48 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:41,440 Hi. Yeah, I'm Alex. 49 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:47,000 So I do all the graphic design, all the pretty pictures, and 50 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:49,880 then I come up with all the wacky ideas that break all the 51 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:54,880 games. Very important role. 52 00:02:54,920 --> 00:03:01,480 Very important role, yeah. So shall we? 53 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,240 Let Aaron give us no view of the game. 54 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:06,160 For those who haven't seen it played. 55 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,440 It give us a a kind of an overview of somebody starting 56 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,120 out the game, kind of what the the theme is and kind of the 57 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:14,440 core mechanics. Yeah, absolutely. 58 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:20,480 So Isla is a a Roland Wright game that encompasses some more 59 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,240 of your typical ball game components and gameplay. 60 00:03:23,920 --> 00:03:26,840 The theme is that you've stumbled across or you've set 61 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:32,200 out to find a an island that has been has not yet been charted, 62 00:03:32,920 --> 00:03:36,480 and you need to make your way through the island, discovering 63 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:42,440 as many species of fossil fauna and flora as you can, and make 64 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:45,400 it off the island successfully and safely. 65 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:50,040 That's a that's a big one and yeah you along the way you earn 66 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,920 research points that will go towards your total. 67 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:58,680 At the end of the game it's yeah, as I mentioned it's a 68 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:02,120 Roland Wright and there's a a really fun mechanic within 69 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:03,920 within the the movement of the island. 70 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:09,800 So we come up with a a dice exhaustion system that uses 5 71 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:14,520 polyhedral dice, and that's AD 4D6810 and A12. 72 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:20,760 You're choose from one of these dice in a dice pool, exhaust the 73 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,880 one that you want to use, and then move the many as many 74 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:27,320 spaces as the dice shows. However, what this means is as 75 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:31,000 you exhaust the dice, you can no longer choose that dye in a 76 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:36,440 later round, so your your options for movement become less 77 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:38,640 and less. However, throughout the island 78 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,280 there are certain spaces that you can stop and have a rest, at 79 00:04:42,280 --> 00:04:44,400 which point you get a specific dye back. 80 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,320 So there may be a tile that has AAD 8, an icon on it, and if 81 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,600 you've used your DA previously, you get that back. 82 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:57,520 So it's really a efficiency puzzle in that you need to make 83 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:04,400 sure that you've got enough dice available to you to keep hopping 84 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,680 between all of these refresh spaces enable to make it to the 85 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,080 end. One big question, we get quite a 86 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:12,080 lot when we're teaching the game. 87 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:16,920 First is, well, why don't I just make my way to the end, Get off 88 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:18,920 the island. You know, get those extra points 89 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:23,560 for leaving the island 1st. And yeah, the the biggest reason 90 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,360 for not doing that is at the end of the game you're going to get 91 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:30,480 a -, 1 point for every space that you haven't explored. 92 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:32,720 So every space you haven't drawn on. 93 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,400 And bearing in mind you can't backtrack on yourself, you can't 94 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:38,400 draw over a place you've already drawn on. 95 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:41,120 Yeah. The idea behind this being that 96 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:44,840 you know you've you've you've gone off to explore some remote 97 00:05:44,840 --> 00:05:48,280 island, you've just steamed through it, you've come back and 98 00:05:48,280 --> 00:05:49,480 what stories are you going to tell? 99 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,800 You know you haven't really haven't really soaked in all the 100 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,640 experience of the island. So yeah, you get more reputation 101 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:57,280 the more you know about the island. 102 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,760 You know more about the island, the more you've explored it. 103 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,400 I think that I mean the certainly when I played it at 104 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,400 the games Expo and then we've been playing it at home, that 105 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,920 dice mechanic can exhaust exhausting a dice and then 106 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:14,600 trying to to get the most optimal route without losing the 107 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,560 points and getting off the island first. 108 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,120 But also collecting that fauna, Fauna and the Fossil part makes 109 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:24,160 a really a really nice puzzle, particularly pull off a nice 110 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,360 little combo of trying to get that dice unlocked. 111 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,240 It's a really clever part of the part of the game design. 112 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:32,320 Yeah, thank you. Yeah, there's nothing more 113 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,520 satisfying than getting the perfect role on your, say, your 114 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,360 D8. That sends you just to the next 115 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,960 D8 refresh so that you can use it and then refresh it in the 116 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,120 same turn. That's the ideal. 117 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:45,600 I think it's a backtracking as well. 118 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,520 The fact you can't, you've kind of not bit like snake. 119 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,200 You don't want to end up blocking yourself into a corner 120 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,920 or somewhere where you just can't, you know, get back to 121 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,560 optimally and call yourself negative negative points. 122 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,400 Yeah, absolutely. That that happens in quite a few 123 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,160 games. You're you're drawing your route 124 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,200 out, it's going really well. And then suddenly you're like, 125 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:08,440 oh wait, I can't get those spaces anymore. 126 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,520 Because if I do, then yeah, I guess like Snake, I'm going to 127 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,320 eat my own tail. I won't be able to get out. 128 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:17,480 Lost forever on that, on that, on that island. 129 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:23,280 What's the what's the journey been in terms of the how long, 130 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:25,640 How long has the game been under design? 131 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:29,040 And it's taken a couple years to get the Kickstarter since I 132 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:30,680 guess I saw it. What's the journey been? 133 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,280 Yeah. So we launched our first game 134 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:39,280 back in 2020 and obviously had a lot to do around distribution 135 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,280 and and you know everything that comes after a Kickstarter. 136 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:48,280 So isn't about 2021 that we started developing this and we 137 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:52,800 were, yeah, the end of 2021. So we were developing a 138 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,360 different game. I won't go into it in detail, 139 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:59,600 but yeah, we decided to to switch on to to this new one. 140 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:05,400 So yeah, it's been about two years roughly of of development. 141 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,680 We foolishly. Yeah, it's it's going. 142 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:14,360 To be easier to produce, we sort of thought this one will be. 143 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,000 It's a rolling, right? How hard can it be to produce A 144 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:17,920 roll? How can it be? 145 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,080 And nice. I mean, he's got no, no fancy 146 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:21,960 components. It's just that little did you. 147 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:23,800 Know. Little did we know? 148 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:25,560 No. We fell right into that trap. 149 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,720 Absolutely. So what? 150 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:29,480 What? What happened? 151 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,240 What was? Tipped to the other game or? 152 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:37,840 No, Yeah, no, this game is that. It just it just took time to to 153 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,120 fine tune or. We just want wait the more. 154 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:42,559 I think we. Sorry, Aaron. 155 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:45,240 No, go on. It's gone. 156 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:47,400 I was going. To say I I think just the more 157 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,560 we the more we fine-tuned it and the more we worked on it. 158 00:08:50,560 --> 00:08:53,760 I think the more the more perfect we wanted everything to 159 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,880 be about it and the more experiential we wanted it to be. 160 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,720 Like So what started off as a roll and write with them. 161 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,960 You know a pencil had a paper and some dice kind of we we 162 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,520 suddenly we were like well, this could be much more immersive if 163 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,840 we have you know proper tokens and meatball. 164 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,920 This could be more immersive if we think about how we have other 165 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,600 things that interact with them with the player. 166 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,200 Something Aaron, I'm not sure if you mentioned actually, but we 167 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:22,080 have this kind of threat deck which kind of acts on the whole 168 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:27,160 rolling A1 and that kind of negatively hinders your 169 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:29,480 progress. And suddenly we found ourselves 170 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:31,840 going, well, this is no longer just a role and right, this is a 171 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:36,600 proper strategy that sort of bridges between exploring 172 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:39,240 strategy and role and right altogether. 173 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,880 So suddenly we found ourselves this simple little role and 174 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:49,640 right become this big journey. And also about a year ago we 175 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:53,240 went, we don't want this to just be a two to four player game, we 176 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:57,280 want to include a solo version as well so that then we wanted 177 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:01,520 to make sure we could get enough play testing and make a really 178 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:05,320 good solo version. So it's not the same game as the 179 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:10,000 competitive two to four. It introduces a mythical keeper 180 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:14,400 who's trying to protect the island, and so we've dedicated 181 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:18,440 time to play testing the solo game specifically as well as the 182 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,440 main competitive game. So that's lengthened the 183 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:23,600 process. A little bit that that makes 184 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:24,320 sense now. Yeah. 185 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:26,800 I've yeah, I've forgotten the that was added on after the 186 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,560 after the UK games Expo. I do like the threats that that 187 00:10:30,560 --> 00:10:34,920 threat mechanic that Alex mentioned or where if you roll 188 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,240 the ones, the the start player has to pick up that many cards 189 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:39,880 and deal with it. But sometimes it's good stuff. 190 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,520 I've got something in front of me where you might find the 191 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,320 sights here but a lot of time it's booby traps. 192 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,160 I mean, there's some hallucinations going on, end up 193 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:52,040 being poisoned. It's not always a happy trip 194 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:54,280 through that island. Oh no, no. 195 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:56,480 Yeah. There's no, you know, it's it's 196 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:58,160 hard. It's a, you know, it's a an 197 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:00,040 island that you have no idea what's going to happen. 198 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,360 You know new species. Yeah. 199 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:06,240 That threat deck was it's taken some balancing I think. 200 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:10,200 And I think anytime you're introducing luck into a ball 201 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:11,800 game, we've got to be very careful. 202 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:16,680 People enjoy luck in very different ways. 203 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:23,960 There's a quite a wide spectrum. And yeah, like you mentioned 204 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,880 about picking up as many threat cards as the ones you've rolled. 205 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:27,840 That's. Yeah. 206 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:29,160 So we had we changed that slightly. 207 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,440 So now you you just draw one threat card no matter how many 208 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:34,320 words you roll. Yeah, we do. 209 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,760 We don't want to be too punishing and we also want to 210 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,280 make sure there's equal opportunity for people to to 211 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,280 receive threats. And yeah, we've we've also 212 00:11:43,680 --> 00:11:46,680 mapped out some alternative game modes. 213 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:48,840 So that's taken quite a lot of time as well. 214 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,720 So we have things like playing without a threat deck, we have 215 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:56,280 an alternate map in in the works and obviously obviously solo 216 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:59,600 mode like like you mentioned. So, yeah, well, that's kind of 217 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:02,760 taking a lot of time and balancing and replay testing. 218 00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:07,280 So I I have a question about player count. 219 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:09,960 Alita, you were talking about including a solo version. 220 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:14,360 So one of the problems that I've had general this is a general 221 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:19,440 experience is our player group has five. 222 00:12:20,560 --> 00:12:23,480 So tell me when when you were when you were working this out 223 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:28,320 and you you landed on two to four players, how did you come 224 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:32,720 up with just two to four? And is it possible to add a 225 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:36,960 fifth player without altering the game experience too much? 226 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:43,320 Well, that one seems like more of a question for Aaron and 227 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:47,800 Alex, but I'm. I'm happy to take it. 228 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:50,400 Yeah, but I think mainly it's around. 229 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:54,400 I don't think it would change too much of the game play, but 230 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:58,800 it's more the length of time for adding in the fifth player. 231 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:03,000 And we also don't want to have to increase the price of the 232 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:08,040 game quite a lot by adding in the tokens and the mutable for a 233 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:12,520 fifth player. Yeah, absolutely. 234 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,400 I completely agree with that. I think you know we're a very, 235 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:19,480 very small publisher. We, this is our second game. 236 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:24,400 We want to make it accessible. I think obviously gaming groups 237 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,520 in terms of numbers very drastically. 238 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,680 Yeah, four was kind of the sort of sweet spot for us when we're 239 00:13:32,680 --> 00:13:35,560 looking at manufacturing and stuff like that, Yeah, want to 240 00:13:35,560 --> 00:13:38,200 keep the price point down. There's nothing stopping you 241 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,960 though for you know, getting 2 copies between a gaming group, 242 00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:45,520 mixing all the research cards together, all the threat cards. 243 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,640 In theory you could you could just get an extra set of tokens 244 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:54,560 and have an extra map. Obviously that's untested in 245 00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:57,600 terms of how many research cards are available and threat cards, 246 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:02,440 but you you have, there's quite an exceeding amount of of 247 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:06,560 research and threat cards. So yeah, we have found that that 248 00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:09,840 can work, but yeah, in terms of what you'll get in the box, 249 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:11,600 you'll just have the four set of tokens. 250 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,520 That's. Also where we differ from most 251 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:16,760 rolling rights because like you're saying most rolling 252 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:20,680 rights you can have up to 100 players and that we in a way. 253 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,360 Also like myself personally, I think it's more important to 254 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,520 include that solo game because there aren't that that many 255 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:30,360 games out there that focus on a solo mode that's slightly 256 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:34,440 variant from the main game. So I thought that was, is my 257 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,560 personal opinion, a better thing to focus on than the five 258 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:41,040 players as well. Absolutely, absolutely. 259 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:41,800 Yeah. No. 260 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,640 So thanks. And Aaron, one of the things I 261 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:46,400 was thinking about was a different map. 262 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:51,080 Is that something that's been easy to add or I guess balancing 263 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:53,920 can be quite tricky in terms of the route, how different is the 264 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,400 map? Is that something coming later? 265 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:01,400 It's it's fairly new. It's not drastically different, 266 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,280 but in in this game where you've got, it's like it's an 8 by 11 267 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,160 grid. For those who don't know, you 268 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:13,480 start taking out some of these spaces and although you know 269 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,240 there might be two or three spaces missing, it has quite a 270 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:20,120 dramatic effect on on the balance of the game. 271 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:25,160 And we've also changed things like the placement of the Diary 272 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:30,640 Refreshers to make it a little bit more chaotic, actually, to 273 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:33,360 give you a background of the idea that we have for the 274 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:38,200 alternate map, it's set in the future when humans have started 275 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:40,320 messing things up. So, you know, if they've brought 276 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,720 their ships over, they've started to mine the quarries, 277 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:46,120 chopped down the forests, you know, all that bad stuff, rising 278 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,000 ocean levels, you know. So some of the tiles have sunk. 279 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:53,240 Yeah. So it does look fairly 280 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,920 different. And we've played it and it it 281 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:57,640 works. It really works. 282 00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:59,040 And yeah, little one, of course she's. 283 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,240 Yeah. So far it's worked. 284 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,120 And it's sort of been like, oh, I don't know why it's worked. 285 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,360 I was hoping I was thinking, you know, I have to do a lot more 286 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,800 fine tuning and we still do have some of that to do. 287 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,280 But actually, yeah, I guess a long answer to your question. 288 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,000 It hasn't been as hard as we thought so far. 289 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:20,400 It's good because I was one of the things about was it about 290 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,840 maybe replayability, that after a while even the randomisation 291 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,960 you might start to work out a bit of an optimal route. 292 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,200 So having another choice of maps sounds like a great idea. 293 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:30,920 I love the the theme of the future. 294 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:32,960 Well, the current day, I guess, yeah. 295 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:34,040 Absolutely. Yeah. 296 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:37,280 We want to keep people engaged and that's where all the 297 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:38,720 alternate game modes come in as well. 298 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,440 And we're planning on some online content as well that will 299 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,160 release hot words, which Alex can tell you, I can. 300 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,520 Yeah, we. We so wait, go. 301 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:49,640 Through Alex. In the solo mode, we've got 302 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:54,760 these, these keepers, which are kind of like mystical creatures 303 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,200 that protect the island. So it's quite exciting. 304 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,880 It's it's an intense play actually, and one that I'm 305 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,480 terrible at. But what in instead of sort of 306 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:07,520 competing against each other, you have these these little 307 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:09,880 monsters moving across the map chasing you down. 308 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:12,440 I'm, I'm not supposed to call them monsters. 309 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,119 We're supposed to be calling keepers because because it 310 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,680 sounds safer and like less, they're less like they're 311 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:19,079 horrible monsters because they're not. 312 00:17:19,079 --> 00:17:21,960 They're very lovely, but they will make you lose the game when 313 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,599 you're playing on your own. So they're kind of chasing you 314 00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:26,800 down. We did some nice illustrations 315 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,240 for these and we've got these four primary keepers that sort 316 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:34,160 of like an easy mode, a medium mode, a hard mode, and a really, 317 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,840 really, really, really, really hard mode to play against. 318 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,920 And not like I've been in the easy mode yet, but I'm working 319 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,080 on it. But we kind of thought like, 320 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,640 what I like about this is that there's this kind of with a solo 321 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,960 mode, there's this constant player like replayability. 322 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,160 And actually if we kind of adjust those rules a little bit 323 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:58,000 and sort of push the boundaries of where we can take those solo 324 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,480 play rules, like you know, do we start to mess around slightly 325 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,320 with the way that those keepers interact with the tokens and 326 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,040 things like that? Do they interact with the way 327 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,280 that you as the player move and things like that? 328 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:12,400 We can sort of slightly vary the gameplay for every solo play 329 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,000 experience. So we want to introduce this 330 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:21,040 Keeper Compendium online so that we can have guest illustrators 331 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:25,440 and designers and things submit ideas and we can come up with 332 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:29,320 our own as we go and and have these constant challenges like 333 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,040 on our website. And, you know, it'll just 334 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,440 obviously just be a part of part of our website that anyone can 335 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:36,760 access that has the game. I mean, it's pointless to access 336 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:40,920 it if you don't have the game, but, you know, but some people 337 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:42,520 might want to, I don't know. But yeah, it's. 338 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,360 Yeah, exactly. So it's kind of a nice little, 339 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:50,400 just like a way of keeping the sort of momentum fresh and that 340 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:54,400 replayability really. Is that something that will go 341 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:56,760 live through the Kickstarter? Do you encourage people to 342 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,240 submit those ideas or is that something that happens? 343 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:01,880 Yeah, I think so. Yeah, yeah, I think so. 344 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:05,240 I mean we're we're working on having a few things ready like 345 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:07,560 for the launch. But yeah, I mean I can 346 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:09,960 absolutely foresee us doing that as part of our Kickstarter 347 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:14,200 campaign really it's like so encouraging a little bit of 348 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,040 contribution there, a little bit of interaction. 349 00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:20,160 I I just kind of like I'm intrigued as sort of like when 350 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,360 people we mentioned earlier about the kind of pushing the 351 00:19:22,360 --> 00:19:24,080 boundaries and adding an extra player. 352 00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:27,440 I'm like I'm all for doing stuff like that. 353 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,840 You know like I'm all for messing around with the way that 354 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:33,960 you play a game and sort of introducing your own roles and 355 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,440 stuff like that. And you know unless it's 356 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:40,520 Monopoly, but you know I'm all for all that kind. 357 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,200 I'm all for that kind of stuff. So like you know I'm I'm 358 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:46,960 intrigued as to what other people come up with. 359 00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:50,080 When we when we released Salvage Hidden Treasures, our first 360 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:55,280 game, we when we when we went to UK Games Expo following that, we 361 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,000 had a few people talking to us about how they'd done things a 362 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,520 little bit differently. They'd you know they'd played 363 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,960 with five or six players. They'd changed the way the maps 364 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,520 worked. Instead of having this equal 4x4 365 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,680 grid that they they were looking at something actually we could 366 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:12,840 make a different shape to that. It doesn't matter. 367 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,400 We can sort of change the way that we play the game, and I 368 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,480 like the idea that people come up with their, like, we'll see 369 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:20,560 things that we haven't and that's really, really cool. 370 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,720 And Alex, you're the artist behind the game. 371 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:32,680 Is that all all been designed from the start in terms of I 372 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,400 guess look and feel or has there been like an evolution or a 373 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,640 change of direction as you've gone through the the artwork 374 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,600 process? Well, interestingly this one has 375 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,400 been a collaboration between myself and Aaron, so Aaron's a 376 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,080 bit of a wizard as well as with the data with 3D. 377 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:51,200 So with Blender and early on when we were looking at how this 378 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,920 how the artwork for Isla was going to look, we played with a 379 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,160 few different ideas. I started coming up with these 380 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,800 kind of elaborate layouts in Photoshop, come up with these 381 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,960 vector illustrations of jungles and things, and me and Aaron 382 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:08,760 were looking at this kind of minimalist low Poly 3D stuff at 383 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,880 the time that's been used really successfully and a lot of like 384 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,680 in the video games. And we're kind of looking again, 385 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,240 why can't we use this in a board game? 386 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,240 I think it'll just work really, really nicely. 387 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,400 We can bring this really vibrant, colorful world to life 388 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,280 in a board game. So, So yeah, it's a bit of a 389 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,320 collaboration between us. So I've designed tokens and all 390 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,640 the cards and all the layouts and I've sat. 391 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,560 I was the sucker that had to sit and work through the design for 392 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,880 a rule book and stuff, which for anyone that's designing games 393 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,280 out there will know the pain of putting together a report like a 394 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:45,040 rule book for a board game. No, we need more pages. 395 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:48,200 No, we need more pages for that. But yeah, it's been a really, 396 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,600 really nice collaboration and I think me and Aaron worked really 397 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,880 well together on this, this kind of artwork style, so it's been 398 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:55,520 fun. I've learnt a bit of 3D in the 399 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:56,920 process as well, which has been good. 400 00:21:57,960 --> 00:21:58,960 It's good. Yeah. 401 00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:01,720 The rule book I I gave good thumbs up to. 402 00:22:02,120 --> 00:22:05,520 It was nicely laid out and and and I could teach and learn for 403 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:07,400 it very quickly. So I'm a bit of a stickler for 404 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,240 rulebook. So you've you have passed the 405 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:11,200 rulebooks. Check. 406 00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:17,200 I will put games back on the shelf if it's too hard and I've 407 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,080 got to get a video. Absolutely. 408 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,000 I'm played for a while because I just haven't, you know, It's got 409 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:23,880 to be easy. So that's, yeah, well done on 410 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:25,280 that one. Excellent. 411 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,600 So in the the in the process, when you all started, when you 412 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,920 decided you're committed to this, this idea for this game, 413 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:37,360 was it always the plan to go through Kickstarter or how did 414 00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:43,280 that conversation develop? Should I go earlier? 415 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:49,840 Yeah, so, So yeah, I think going forward we'd like to continue to 416 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:54,080 be a indie publisher. So going through Kickstarter, 417 00:22:54,360 --> 00:22:58,640 manufacturing underneath our name, that's what we did for our 418 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:00,600 first game and we learnt a lot from it. 419 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:03,880 So that's something for our second game we want to stick 420 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,960 with so we can learn more and understand the ball game world a 421 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:13,800 little bit more as well. OK, so how smooth was your first 422 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,120 experience with Kickstarter? Oh, it. 423 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,760 Was beautiful. OK. 424 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,480 It wasn't. It was. 425 00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:27,600 I mean, it was. It was all new to us, wasn't it? 426 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,920 And I mean we we got, we got everything done, then we got, 427 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:32,400 you know, we stuck to our deadlines. 428 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:37,440 We we got the the game shipped as we expected it in time. 429 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,680 But it was a lot of work. It was like. 430 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:43,160 I say 22. I was just looking now on the 431 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,000 full Game Geek. It's 2020, so that must have 432 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,480 been a challenge in its own right. 433 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:55,680 We did something very clever how we We saved I guess some time 434 00:23:56,520 --> 00:24:00,040 but mostly money we wanted we wanted it to be as as cheap as 435 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:01,440 we as we could get it for our backers. 436 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,920 So we thought right we're going to it's a low run. 437 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:05,560 We're going to do a lot of this stuff ourselves. 438 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,320 So I I won't bore you with all the things that we talked we 439 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:13,120 said we'll do on our our own but one of them was the inserts. 440 00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:17,080 So we had this card insert in the GameStop all the components 441 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,160 flying about and we went oh we we don't need to pay for tooling 442 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,520 and cutting for these. Well you know it's it's it's 443 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,040 quite a short run Alex. Should we just do it on a 444 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,680 weekend? Oh my goodness. 445 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:34,320 Cutting out hundreds of these card inserts took us days, and 446 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,320 our hands were cramping up by the end of it. 447 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,800 And it got to the point where a day before we had to ship all 448 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,360 these, we still had about 100 to do. 449 00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:45,640 Because I think I'd been ill and we were just there had 50 sheets 450 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:47,320 between us cutting them out. It was. 451 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,520 Awful. It nearly killed that nearly 452 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,160 killed Aaron A. Broken Man. 453 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,080 Yeah that was, yeah. So if anyone owns a copy of 454 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,680 Salvage Hidden Treasures and looks at that lovely, lovely in 455 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,440 insert, which is very nice, you can sort of know that. 456 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:07,120 Well, not literal, but nearly because we did it with with 457 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,880 Exacto knives and and rollers and stuff. 458 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,440 But like yeah, that that nearly killed us. 459 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,160 So if you've got one of those, that was hand done by by the 460 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,800 creators of the game. Handcrafted. 461 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,160 I remember looking at it was this was the Expo as well I 462 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:24,360 think. Now look at now look at the 463 00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:26,280 artwork, it looked like a good game. 464 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,680 The design and the artwork layout was really nice. 465 00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:32,920 And just behind a rule book is a good insert. 466 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,280 So yeah. Exactly. 467 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,320 It was last week's episode. We were talking about inserts, 468 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,320 won't we? Yeah, we weren't about Darwin's 469 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,800 journey. The Deluxe edition comes with a 470 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,040 really nice insert and BJ was complaining. 471 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:48,880 The retail version comes with nothing. 472 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,960 It's just how vastly different the experience is in terms of 473 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,080 setup and put away when you've got a decent insert. 474 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:57,880 You know, my wife and I were playing a game this morning 475 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,800 that's predominantly cards and we were commenting on how nice 476 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:06,040 the insert was and that's that's not common, right, for a game to 477 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:10,080 come with a decent insert. And it really makes, it makes, 478 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,400 it makes a game after the rule book. 479 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,720 If Gareth can teach it to me, then he's going to keep it 480 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,640 playing on the table. And if it's, insert if, if. 481 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,680 If it doesn't go all over the place, I'll always ask for it 482 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,200 so. The worst thing is when the game 483 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,960 comes and the insert's so bad, you throw the insert away. 484 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,280 Oh yeah, it's just money. And. 485 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,760 Environmental waste. Sometimes they are shockers. 486 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,720 I'm just writing a note as well to add an insert to our 487 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,400 manufacturing. The question is. 488 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,720 Though do you always lift up the insert to see if there's any? 489 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:47,080 Yes. Yeah, good. 490 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:47,960 Yeah. Every time. 491 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,840 No. No PJ you might miss. 492 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:53,960 You. Always got a check. 493 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,640 There is no reason. There is no reason for you to 494 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,800 hide components of your game. Underneath the. 495 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,480 Insert. Seriously, sometimes there's 496 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,600 things there. Yeah, I just check anyway. 497 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:06,760 Then it should be in the insert I'm. 498 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:08,840 It's a surprise. So I can do. 499 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:15,880 I don't do surprises when you come over. 500 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,120 I'm going to hide some components under the tray, just 501 00:27:18,360 --> 00:27:21,200 just so you can hunt for them. That's fantastic. 502 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:27,920 Just stating what? I need to do a game section PJ 503 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,560 and think well games might have some hidden components, no? 504 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,000 1. We know one. 505 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:40,920 So Alita, this comes to Kickstarter on the 8th of Feb. 506 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,840 Yes, Thursday. And what time do you guys go 507 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,040 live? We're going live at 10:00 AM 508 00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:50,920 GMT. It's a nice thing to do before 509 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,920 your lunch break. Yeah, just that little pressing 510 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:55,800 go. And then how long is the 511 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,360 campaign running for? It was running until the end of 512 00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:02,680 February, so OK, that'd be 3 weeks later on the 29th of 513 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:10,440 February. 20 OK, 29th of February it is well. 514 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,480 Thank you for joining us listeners. 515 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,520 Don't forget to check out Kickstarts on Thursday at 10:00 516 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:21,640 AM on the eighth of Feb when the game goes live. 517 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:24,600 Any questions? People do just drop me in the 518 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,920 comments, or drop me or PGM message or the guys at Ocean 519 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,680 City Games and message on Instagram and we can answer 520 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,600 those questions there. I'd like to thank Aaron, Alex 521 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,800 and Lita for joining us. Yes, absolutely. 522 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:37,160 Thanks guys. Thanks for taking the time into 523 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:38,040 your day. We appreciate it. 524 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:38,800 Thank you very. Much thanks. 525 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,720 BJ, it's been a pleasure. Thank you. 526 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,200 Thanks everyone for listening. Please subscribe and as always, 527 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:49,160 we'd love to hear your thoughts and ideas, so make sure to leave 528 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,800 those in the comments. And don't forget, you can also 529 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,000 chat with us both on Instagram at meeple to Meeple.