1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,840 Welcome to Meeple to Meeple, uniting players around the 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:05,640 world. A 30 minute exploration of TJ 3 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:08,200 and Gareth's four-game experiences from across both 4 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:11,440 sides of the Atlantic. Each episode they share their 5 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:14,440 thoughts and opinions on the world of four games, including 6 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:18,520 their favorite themes, games, hot topics, and much, much more. 7 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,840 Hello and welcome to Get into Games on Air, a podcast about 8 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,040 board games and the people who play them. 9 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:32,240 And welcome to meeple to meeple. As always, I remain PJ. 10 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,440 This is episode one O 7. Hold on. 11 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:36,800 Whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, 12 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,480 whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, 13 00:00:39,480 --> 00:00:41,160 whoa. This is hello. 14 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:43,880 This is Game to Games on air. This is episode 40. 15 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:46,040 This is an episode. What? 16 00:00:46,160 --> 00:00:47,320 Sorry. No. 17 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:53,600 No, this is Meeple to Meeple episode one O 7, a podcast duo 18 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:54,560 I'm. Sorry, sorry. 19 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:58,480 This is this is again to Games on Air. 20 00:00:59,960 --> 00:01:02,760 It's a podcast duet I think you'll find. 21 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:10,240 No no, this is Maple to Maple episode one O 7, a podcast dual. 22 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:19,680 No, this is this is episode 40, a podcast dos I can't think of 23 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,160 any more Dual dual name dual dual dual. 24 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:27,000 Dual dual duet. It's episode 40 anyway. 25 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,600 It's episode 107. 44. You guys stop arguing. 26 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:32,560 OK. Oh, you're here too. 27 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,640 Hi, we're all. Here. 28 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:43,080 Hello, as as you can hear those dulcet tones of episode 107. 29 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:47,320 All right, is the wonderful PJ from meeple to meeple. 30 00:01:47,320 --> 00:01:50,200 If you're listening to this on the get into games feed, of 31 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,480 course. And joining us, as always, is 32 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:53,680 Rebecca. Hi. 33 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,360 Hey, Becky. Yes. 34 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:02,040 OK, just so we can. Put it yes, we. 35 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:04,280 Are we can put it? No, we're not. 36 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,800 Yes, we. Are I am not going to argue with 37 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:08,759 you. Right. 38 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:11,880 I will rise above the bait. We can end this. 39 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:15,840 No, you will not do. You want to play a game, let's 40 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:17,920 play a game. Yes, let's play a game. 41 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:22,840 OK, you have to try and guess the game from the true words. 42 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,440 It's ever told you right? So the clues. 43 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:31,040 The clues will get more less abstract, so you'll be able to 44 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:33,000 work out the game as you get more clues. 45 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:33,800 Interesting. OK. 46 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:40,160 So it's it's evolution. No, the first word is grid. 47 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,280 Grid Cities. No. 48 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:49,280 Hues and cues. No second word. 49 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:50,800 That's a good guess. Yellow. 50 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:53,760 Yellow grid. Yellow grid. 51 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:59,320 Yellow grid sounds like trauma here. 52 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:03,600 Yellow grid, yellow grid, yellow grid. 53 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:06,680 OK, I think the arguing is over. Craig. 54 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,920 What's a yellow grid? Yellow. 55 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:13,200 Grid, just play a game that comes to your mind. 56 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,200 With a yellow grid in it, yeah. With a yellow grid. 57 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:18,680 Grid. Oh. 58 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:22,560 A yellow grid. Maharani Maharani. 59 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,280 No, yeah, I didn't. Say no, Ronnie, are you 60 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,120 guessing? Yeah, I'm guessing. 61 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:32,880 I'm guessing it's a grid of squares from Marshall. 62 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:35,800 No next, but that's a good guess. 63 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:37,800 Dice. Dice. 64 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,600 Well, of course it's dice. It's a yellow grid of squares, 65 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:45,960 so yeah. Dice you're. 66 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:47,520 Going to do this with a. Grid. 67 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,840 Of grid of dice. A yellow grid of dice. 68 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:57,360 Yellow grid of dice. OK, is it a grid of yellow dice 69 00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:59,080 or is it a yellow grid of dice is? 70 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,160 It dice throne dice. Yellow grid? 71 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:07,760 No, it's like grid yellow dice. Grid yellow. 72 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,080 Dice grid yellow. What did you say, Dice? 73 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:12,920 Dice Miner Dice miner is. What dice Miner No. 74 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,040 On Earth. No, I know. 75 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:21,279 Next word is people. Oh, that's easy. 76 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,680 Meatball to Meatballs episode 107. 77 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:26,440 Have you got a game up? That's cool. 78 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:29,560 Might be getting to games as episode 14, I don't know. 79 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:38,880 Oh. Grid, grid yellow, yellow dice. 80 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,800 Dice people. Great yellow dice people. 81 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:45,800 Great yellow dice, people. Man. 82 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:48,400 She don't make it easy, does she? 83 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:50,160 Are you staring at your game collection? 84 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,760 Because that's what I'm doing. Yeah, grid yellow. 85 00:04:54,640 --> 00:05:02,240 I have to on on people before. It came here. 86 00:05:02,280 --> 00:05:04,400 Wow grid. Yellow. 87 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:05,840 You want the last word. No, you're not. 88 00:05:05,840 --> 00:05:06,800 How about? How about how? 89 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:09,560 About salt and sea. No. 90 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:13,480 How about the game of grid Yellow dice people? 91 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:17,200 Kubitos. No last word. 92 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:19,840 I bet you're going to get it now, Murder. 93 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,240 Murder Cluedo. Yes. 94 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:26,560 Oh. I'm sorry. 95 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,760 I'm sorry, that's clue. Oh, I'm sorry, it's actually 96 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:38,000 episode 40. We had some feedback on the game 97 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:42,760 and Oh yes, one of my friends said it was too hard because 98 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:47,560 they were intro gamers who hadn't played many games. 99 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:52,520 So they liked the game, but they didn't know what the games were 100 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:54,840 because they hadn't experienced those games. 101 00:05:54,840 --> 00:05:57,480 So I thought I'd try out one that most people had. 102 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,200 Yes. And yes, and if you are 103 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:05,640 listening to the podcast and you think we choose games that are 104 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:11,480 too up to date and too modern, do better Ian, do better so. 105 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:18,600 Wow. So I have AI have AI have a 106 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,720 question Yellow grid yellow so the. 107 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:25,920 Board yellow. The board with the spread with 108 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:31,200 yellow. So the problem here in the US is 109 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:37,480 we like to update everything every few years and I don't 110 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,560 think it's yellow is. Is it grey now? 111 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:42,920 Well, the picture. I, I think it's like a mar. 112 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,840 I think it's, I think it's meant to be marble and so it's kind of 113 00:06:45,840 --> 00:06:47,920 a grey. The original, the classic, the 114 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:52,640 OG, the oregano. The oregano was definitely 115 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:53,880 yellow. Anyway. 116 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:55,760 No. What? 117 00:06:55,840 --> 00:06:56,520 What? We're going to talk. 118 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:06,440 About So this show of the podcast, which is sponsored by 119 00:07:06,840 --> 00:07:10,120 Shirts and Merch. Shirts and Merch is a fantastic 120 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:15,760 board game apparel company that ships worldwide to the world, 121 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,280 not just in Old Blighty. They're based in Old Blighty, 122 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:21,400 but they ship all over the world. 123 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:25,640 Most in America. Even the United States of 124 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:30,200 America, and they do. Blood on the clock Tower, they 125 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,640 do. Obsession they do. 126 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:36,640 Snowdonia. They do Nemesis, they do all of 127 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,120 your favourites in T-shirt form and they are the most 128 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:43,920 comfortable long lasting T-shirts you will ever likely to 129 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:48,800 own and wear. So go to games night in style in 130 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:53,040 a shirts and merch, merch, shirt, shirts and merch. 131 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:54,880 OK. Wow, it's. 132 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:56,000 Etsy. Lads. 133 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,800 What have you been playing, PJ? So yeah, in this episode we are 134 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:05,120 going to talk about, I'm going to talk over you because you 135 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,560 have not introed my podcast properly. 136 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:12,920 I thought she did a great job. Personally, I want Becky to 137 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,520 introduce all of our episodes from now on. 138 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,200 The problem is, I find that she just can't take turns. 139 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,600 Well, you know, we're not going to argue about that. 140 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:25,040 I can't. Argue. 141 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:30,680 You guys are mean. Becky cannot Becky cannot in 142 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:35,520 fact play turn take turns and so to we're going to come back to 143 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:37,919 that. To answer your question in this 144 00:08:37,919 --> 00:08:43,960 episode, one of seven of meeple to meeple I I I just returned 145 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,040 from St. Louis, MO, where I was a geek 146 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:50,760 way mini all weekend. 400 guests only. 147 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,520 So it's a limited limited badges. 148 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,680 They have a games library and the Play and Win library. 149 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:02,280 But I noticed some people playing Heat Pedal to the Metal. 150 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:05,960 And I think it was like a little, I think a group of 151 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:09,360 people, it wasn't sanctioned by Geek Way, but a group of people 152 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,200 organized a little tournament. And so they played all the 153 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,840 different race tracks, which I think there were four currently 154 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,400 with two more on the way. Right. 155 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:21,720 But what did we, what did we, what did we learn? 156 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:26,400 Craig, when you taught me how to play Heat, we learned that when 157 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:32,480 you're trying to go around a corner, take a turn on the road 158 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:37,920 as it will, is that your Co host, lovely as she is, cannot 159 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:39,160 take turns. That's. 160 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:42,200 True or. Maybe you precious a lot a 161 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:47,840 little bit too. So, yeah. 162 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:49,880 And So what? What sort of games did you play 163 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:51,360 at Geek Way? Then how did did you have a good 164 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:53,080 time? What was what was happening? 165 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:56,840 We did a mini. We had a fantastic time. 166 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:58,320 So why? Why mini? 167 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,520 There's a bigger geek way to the West in May. 168 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:07,480 I think it's probably about 5 or 6000 attendees with a small 169 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:10,840 vendor Hall still has a Play and win library, still has a games 170 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:14,080 library, a couple of events, some demos and things like that. 171 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:16,800 But on a small scale, this is even smaller. 172 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:21,040 It's all one big conference room and it's nothing but play games. 173 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:25,000 And in the Game Play and Win library, you get to put your 174 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,280 name in. You check the game out. 175 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:30,480 When you check it back in, you can then do a review and it puts 176 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:35,200 your name in the hat, in the hat to be to win a copy of that game 177 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:41,680 at the end of the weekend. We played 27 unique titles over 178 00:10:41,680 --> 00:10:44,280 the course of three days. That's pretty good. 179 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:45,240 That's. Pretty good. 180 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:49,480 Yeah, a couple of highlights. We played. 181 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:53,560 We opened the weekend with charcuterie I saw. 182 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,280 That. Let me tell you what that game 183 00:10:56,280 --> 00:11:01,040 is fun and and you got to think about like I have never racked 184 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:05,480 my brain over where do I put the cheese and the crackers? 185 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,680 And it's like, oh, there's square bread, which are 186 00:11:08,680 --> 00:11:13,320 crackers, and round bread, which are also crackers. 187 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:18,280 But I got to make sure I put this, the round bread next to 188 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:22,280 the aged cheese, and the square bread has to go next to the 189 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:24,320 fruit. And then this group of fruit 190 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,640 over here, I need one of everything. 191 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:33,120 I can't have any duplicates. Oh my God, just really so good. 192 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,040 Like that picture perfect, but a cheese board, a board of meat 193 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:39,840 and cheese instead. Like you know how picture 194 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:41,440 perfect? We have to place the people in 195 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:42,680 the right place for the photographs. 196 00:11:42,680 --> 00:11:45,000 Is it like that you have to place things on a board in the 197 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:51,760 right place? No, it's because, so what's 198 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,280 interesting is these are, I mean, now the in the retail 199 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:56,720 version, as we were talking about earlier, retail and 200 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:58,880 deluxe. In the retail version, it's all 201 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,680 cardboard. So you can lay them a little bit 202 00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:06,120 on top of each other. The key is that for each cheese 203 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:12,120 or bread, half of it has to be exposed to be considered as part 204 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:13,960 of the group. So you don't want to stack them 205 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,560 up too neat, too neatly. You want to spread it out and 206 00:12:17,560 --> 00:12:19,800 make it beautiful. And then you'll score the 207 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,760 different groups on your cheese board. 208 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,400 Yeah, it's worthy. It was a lot of fun that that 209 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,360 game was crazy fun. It was not prepared for how much 210 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:32,800 fun. And then and then we followed it 211 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:39,880 up with a heavy 4 hours of civilution, which is great. 212 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,560 That game was just Gareth played it a couple times and owns a 213 00:12:43,560 --> 00:12:46,240 copy. And yeah, that was incredible. 214 00:12:46,560 --> 00:12:48,760 That was an incredible game. And we're like, we knew we were 215 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:50,880 like, oh God, I hope we win a copy of this game. 216 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:53,240 But we played a lot of cool stuff. 217 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:58,600 Intarsia is probably the game and I shared it with y'all while 218 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:00,360 I was there. I don't know why people aren't 219 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,440 talking about this game. Beautiful wooden components. 220 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:08,680 The insert is amazing because you keep everything in the box 221 00:13:08,680 --> 00:13:10,880 off to the side. You're laying. 222 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:13,720 I, I can't remember what you call it. 223 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:15,760 There's a there's a name for the technique. 224 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:21,960 You're laying wooden panels on the floor of a cafe, right? 225 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,920 And so you have like the frames and then you have the inner 226 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:28,360 frames and then you have the even smaller inner frame, and 227 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,760 then you have these little wooden tables that fit in the 228 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:36,360 middle and you score points based on how many of these you 229 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,600 end up filling in at the end of the game. 230 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:43,080 There's some other points, strategic scoring points as you 231 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:47,040 go, but you're essentially building the floor of a cafe in 232 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:52,280 It's a cafe to Paris. I think this is 18th or 19th 233 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:54,080 century. Beautiful game. 234 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,000 And I'm like, why is anyone talking about this? 235 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,960 We played it multiple times. We really wanted to win a copy 236 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,720 of that, but we didn't. So that's unfortunate. 237 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:07,560 We played men Neffer guys. Best game of the weekend, best 238 00:14:07,560 --> 00:14:09,800 game of the weekend. We're going to talk about that 239 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,240 more in the second segment of this episode for sure. 240 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,280 Let's see, what else do we play? We played a lot of games, 241 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:23,000 though. We did learn that far away, not 242 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:27,440 the not the good far away by cherry picked games in outer 243 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:31,240 space, but that I'm going to make some people mad here. 244 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:40,080 That stupid card game that was a waste of 45 minutes of my time 245 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,600 and I just can't get back. Yeah, I agree with. 246 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:44,440 You. I don't. 247 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:50,960 I don't see what fuss is about. I, I, I just my head, can't I? 248 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,920 I get what it's asking you to do. 249 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,320 You go on a walk, you collect the things, you bring them back 250 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:57,560 for the people who want the things. 251 00:14:57,960 --> 00:14:59,240 Craig's explained all that to me. 252 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,960 I just can't be bothered to think through the process 253 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,200 backwards. Just give me another. 254 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,360 It's just. Yeah, it's, it's just not 255 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:09,480 interesting. But I know a lot of people love 256 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:11,840 it. Everyone know, I know they do. 257 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:16,440 I mean, the best way to for me to explain far away is, OK, I'm 258 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:20,440 going to lay down a certain number of cards. 259 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:22,760 Was it 9 or 12? I don't remember the exact 260 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:26,400 number from left to right. And then I'm going to score them 261 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:28,560 from right to left. Fun. 262 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:30,360 Great. Yeah. 263 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:33,600 Was there a theme? Oh, and I'm not. 264 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:35,080 The art didn't do anything for me. 265 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,360 Now I know people are people like the art. 266 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,400 It's not for me. And that part that you can't do 267 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,800 anything about. But I was like, you could strip 268 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:47,320 away the theme and just be like, do I have enough of these icons, 269 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:51,160 these maps, these, these little scarabs or whatever they are? 270 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:53,440 And it's like, OK, yeah, great. That's the thing, isn't it? 271 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,280 I mean, as we're going to talk about later on about theme and 272 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,600 and learning games, teaching games through theme, the the 273 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,520 theme of that game, just it doesn't come through because 274 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:08,320 what am I delivering? I'm delivering a skull 4 skulls 275 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,920 like, oh, you wanted OK, I can get that. 276 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:12,280 You want me to go to the pineapples and get the 277 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:13,440 pineapples. I understand. 278 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:16,680 Then there's like some random things I'm like, I don't, I 279 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,680 don't. Maybe if it was less, maybe if 280 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:23,840 everything was less humanoid and more alien and more I'm 281 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:29,360 exploring deep space to think like maybe then it might make 282 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:30,760 more sense to me. But I just. 283 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,280 And also it's quite rat like. You've got a hope that those 284 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,600 cards come out and they sit properly because if you're 285 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:39,640 unlucky, you're not scoring anything on the way. 286 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:43,600 Yeah, no. I So there's something to do 287 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:47,160 with there's a number in the corner and when you play a card, 288 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,360 if it's higher than the numbers that you previously played, then 289 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:53,840 you get a smaller card that you put over top. 290 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:57,520 So I was being really meticulous. 291 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,800 My numbers were completely in ascending order. 292 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,839 I was doing everything right. Oh but PJ, you don't have enough 293 00:17:04,839 --> 00:17:07,560 of this icon, so you didn't score any points. 294 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:11,000 I'm like Oh well this card says I get 17 points Well no, you 295 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:12,920 don't have this. You don't have the icons in your 296 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,240 past, but I do. I can see them. 297 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:17,079 No, you haven't gotten there yet. 298 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:23,640 Y'all don't understand this. This was a waste of my time and 299 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,359 I'm done and I think I'm done talking about it. 300 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:32,040 So yeah, let's. So if you need to get him a 301 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:39,920 gift. Yep, we played some cool games. 302 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:44,960 There was just a lot going on. We got to play Black Forest by 303 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,200 UE Rosenberg. That was good. 304 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:55,320 I'd never played Glass Rd. which is a prequel or a precursor or a 305 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:56,520 previous. I don't. 306 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:58,720 It was good. It was really good. 307 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:02,760 It was classic UE was really happy about getting an 308 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,040 opportunity to play that. I finally got to play Wondrous 309 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:07,680 Creatures. Yep. 310 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,040 Yep, that that's a solid. That was solid. 311 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:18,320 Oh, Ravens of No Ravens of Fort Forgers of Ravenshire. 312 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:20,240 Yeah, with the big badger on the front. 313 00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:23,520 Yes. Beautiful, beautiful, well 314 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:25,560 designed game as well. That was a lot of fun. 315 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:29,160 We played it twice. That was, that was fantastic. 316 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,800 So you mentioned one of your guesses when we were trying to 317 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:36,560 guess Becky's game was cities, right? 318 00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:38,720 So we finally got to play cities. 319 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,680 Katie and I were a little concerned about the hype around 320 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,680 cities. I don't get it. 321 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,480 Oh, really? Did you play it wrong like we 322 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,920 played it wrong, or did you play it right that we played it 323 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,280 wrong? What I don't When you played two 324 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,320 player, did you create a three by 5 grid or a three by three 325 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,680 grid? Three by three, as we were told. 326 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:08,840 Yeah, it just now. I don't feel as bad about it as 327 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,800 I did the previous game we talked about, but yeah, it was 328 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:16,800 just kind of OK. It's a, it's a king domino. 329 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:19,840 It's a, it's a step up from king domino. 330 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,800 I think in complexity, it's like where you'd go next. 331 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:27,240 I, I do, I still, I still think it does work better with more 332 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,840 than two, but it does work. We quite like it just as a kind 333 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,320 of after work get to the table game. 334 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,640 I think with four players, you're blocking each other and 335 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:40,840 stopping each other from getting those better tokens. 336 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,440 I think at two player always feel a little bit monotonous. 337 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:46,160 After you've done a couple of rounds, you're like, yeah, I'm 338 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,760 just picking up from this row and I'm picking up from this row 339 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,400 and it it can be a bit. Yeah, and you have? 340 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:54,760 More you have more choice because you're putting more 341 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:57,120 meatballs down. You have more choice at two 342 00:19:57,120 --> 00:20:01,360 players, whereas you don't have have every single selection. 343 00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:04,560 You have one choice to make in that row, whereas two players 344 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,480 you have two choices in every single row. 345 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:13,440 So you have more there's it's not as tight in a in A2 player 346 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:18,400 game, but yeah, it's not, it's not it's not heavy, but it's. 347 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:23,440 No, it's not heavy at all. And I guess I was, you know, I 348 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,200 think I think what worked against it is that Katie and I 349 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,520 are big fans of Deavere. I don't know what it is, but 350 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:34,480 they have really been producing solid quality titles, right? 351 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,680 Like so much so that I have multiple Cal axes that are 352 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,240 filled cubes filled, right? I mean, there's red cathedral, 353 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,440 there's White Castle, there's bamboo Salton Sea. 354 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,120 I remember, you know, I just, they're so good. 355 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:52,120 And I was like just everyone's talking about it and we're like, 356 00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:57,160 well, OK, we were. We walked away disappointed. 357 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:02,480 This happened at UKGE didn't it? Because everyone saw Devere and 358 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:06,400 they saw cities and they went. Devere are making amazing mid to 359 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:11,880 heavy games at the moment in small boxes and it's not it's 360 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,400 Phil Walker Harding. If you expect a heavy game then 361 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:16,320 you're looking at the wrong designer. 362 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,680 But I think if you want to get people into devere games, it's 363 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,920 quite a good like here's here's a devere game you can try and 364 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:28,000 then not like other things. I, I think you're right. 365 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:32,280 I think you're on or something. It did not occur. 366 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,720 That didn't thought did not occur to us when we played it. 367 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,800 I think we were comparing it to everything we own at home. 368 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,160 That's I think if you're not familiar with Devere, it's a 369 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:46,240 lightweight game. It's accessible, yes. 370 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,440 It would not be a waste of my time to play that with someone 371 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:55,200 who was new to the gaming hobby or new to devere games as a 372 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:55,920 whole. Yeah. 373 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,720 Because I think also like Ouch is a devere game. 374 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:02,360 Oh yeah, Ouch as well. Oh. 375 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:04,720 Right. No. 376 00:22:05,120 --> 00:22:07,120 So did you want to explain? It yeah. 377 00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:11,880 So it's like it's a card game with cactus on it and you put 378 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:18,840 out six cards and then you point to a side of the card and the 379 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:23,120 flowers on the cactus depict how dangerous the cactus is going to 380 00:22:23,120 --> 00:22:25,720 be. So if it's got 3 flowers on it, 381 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,080 it's most dangerous. If you've got 2 flowers on, it's 382 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:32,560 kind of all right and one flower is like you're probably going to 383 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,640 be fine. So you touch a side and then you 384 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:39,320 turn it over and if there is like a prickle on the side that 385 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,480 you touched, you don't take the cactus. 386 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,160 But if it's prickle free, then you can take it and put it in 387 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,080 your collection. The kids love it. 388 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,520 And the idea is that you're trying to collect sets of 389 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,680 flowers and the highest number of Reds. 390 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,000 So you want to go for those threes because the more flowers, 391 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:53,960 the more points you're going to get. 392 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,440 But there's a risk that you're going to get stabbed by the 393 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:58,680 cactus. When you say I've select the 394 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,200 left hand side and you flip it over and then there's a cactus 395 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,560 and you're so you lose the card. It's a really, yeah. 396 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:06,840 So I think it's good for kids, but I think it's quite a nice, 397 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,240 it's like a really nice quick filler between games. 398 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,440 So I think they do have a few in their collection that are kind 399 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,480 of come see what we do and then you might like our heavier 400 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:18,400 games. Oh yeah. 401 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,880 Which I think all companies need because I doubt you're going to 402 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,200 get White Castle out or Bamboo straight off the bat if you've 403 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,640 got no idea of what. Yep, that's fair. 404 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,280 Hey, Speaking of filler games, I want to tell you about a game 405 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,440 that, well, I don't have to tell you, but I'm going to tell our 406 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:38,160 listeners a game that just blew me away and that we're committed 407 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,400 to finding a copy and buying it. And that was Fairy Ring. 408 00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:44,440 I shared with some images of it with you. 409 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,880 The components are gorgeous, they're amazing. 410 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,040 That game is fantastic. I never would have. 411 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:56,680 Let's see who makes that. It's so the designers, Lawrence 412 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:02,560 Grenier and Fabian Tangi Tangai. And I don't know what the 413 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:04,640 company is 'cause I can't read that. 414 00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:07,480 Is it repos? Is that repos? 415 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,240 Oh, maybe I don't know. But the the fairies are 416 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,720 gorgeous. It's a two to four player. 417 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:18,440 Fairies are moving around around the board in a circle, in a 418 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,720 ring. Our cards kind of create a ring 419 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,000 and we're just playing mushrooms in front of us. 420 00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:27,840 And when you land on a mushroom, you score points. 421 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:32,960 But if beware, if you land on your opponent's mushroom, they 422 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:37,800 score points. But let's let's say I land on a 423 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,320 purple mushroom in front of you, you will get the points. 424 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,280 But if I have a purple mushroom in front of me, I will be able 425 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,400 to score those as well. So that's nice. 426 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:55,240 That game was that was fun, cute, quick, easy filler game. 427 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,040 I can definitely say that your girls are going to love it. 428 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:00,640 Yeah. It does look nice. 429 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:08,080 Yeah, we played Stock Exchange so I don't know if you're 430 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,760 familiar with the card game Gift of Tulips, which is kind of 431 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,800 similar where it's all about a Tulip market and you're 432 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:18,400 manipulating the market of the the Tulip market in Denmark. 433 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:23,960 Stock Exchange just takes that to a whole nether level That 434 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:28,480 game is DOP is starting to do better with their games and 435 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,920 their game quality. Wooden components, these 436 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,920 three-dimensional cardboard sheds where you hide the flower 437 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:41,280 tokens because you get points based on where they end up in 438 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,000 the market at the end of the game, right? 439 00:25:43,120 --> 00:25:45,160 Kind of like a Stock Exchange instead of a stock. 440 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:46,800 Exchange, right? I don't like that. 441 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,000 That game was a lot of fun as well. 442 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:56,360 We played Wild Gardens finally. A lot of hype. 443 00:25:58,040 --> 00:25:59,600 Doing the rounds recently, yeah, it's. 444 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,000 Very pretty. Yeah, so we played it the first 445 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,800 time and it gave me a physical headache. 446 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:11,600 I was like, I was like, no, no, when you say brain burner, it 447 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:16,160 literally burned my brain. The strategy Katie was like, 448 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,120 would you think? And I could just see her all 449 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:19,960 eyes glistening. She's so happy. 450 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,200 And she loved this game. And I'm like, it was great. 451 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,880 So on Sunday, the final day of the convention, I was like, 452 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,560 let's play it again. First game of the day, right? 453 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,080 And we'll play it through. So you run you basically you, 454 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,640 you have these beautiful wooden meatballs, although they're not 455 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,080 meatballs, they're well designed, fully formed, head to 456 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:48,280 toe people. And you're walking around like a 457 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:53,640 garden and you're foraging different ingredients and you've 458 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:58,600 got a market of recipes and they tell you what you need to cook 459 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,480 that recipe. And then you also have a market 460 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:06,040 of people that you want to serve those recipes too. 461 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:11,800 But of course, Craig only likes breakfast foods and Becky only 462 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,440 likes cakes and Katie only likes the tea or whatever. 463 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,480 So you've got to monitor all that. 464 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:23,040 Plus you have to be on specific spaces that have a picnic table. 465 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:28,800 You have to land on that and then take that action to cook or 466 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,680 serve beautiful components. It's a lot of fun. 467 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,760 It was a lot of fun playing it the second time. 468 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,120 It was just as difficult, but I had a rest, so that was nice. 469 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:42,160 And I was like, what? Wild Gardens guys? 470 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:44,720 It's gorgeous. The components are great. 471 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:50,160 There's no deluxified craziness. It's a beautiful game at retail 472 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,160 and it's a lot of fun with deep, deep, deep strategy. 473 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,680 Like what? That's that's what I want from 474 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,360 board games. So I have AI, have a question 475 00:28:00,360 --> 00:28:04,200 for you. You played 20, did you say 26 or 476 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,480 27 games? 27 games. 477 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:11,200 So how so? How did you learn the rules? 478 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,120 Did you use the rule book? Did you watch a how to guide? 479 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,960 That is a great question, great question. 480 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:28,600 So the week before Katie was in her free time, she was watching 481 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,880 how to play games because the play and win library was 482 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,800 announced on Board Game Geek ahead of time, so you knew which 483 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,920 games were in there. So she was just watching all 484 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,240 these play to win, Play to win. Yeah. 485 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,200 Well, it was play to win. She was watching how to play 486 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,000 videos, right, if they were available. 487 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:54,520 And then when you when you check the game out, they have taped 488 00:28:54,960 --> 00:29:00,240 AQR code on the inside of the Bach lid to a digital version of 489 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,800 the rule book. That way I can scan the QR code 490 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,440 and read it on my phone while Katie's actually looking at the 491 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,520 physical rule book. But at the end of the day, you 492 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:15,280 go in, you select a game off the shelf, they scan it and your 493 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:19,680 badge to check it out, you go to your table and you learn to play 494 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,040 it right there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 495 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,200 But that's quite a difficult skill, isn't it? 496 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:26,240 Sometimes they're kind of. Yeah. 497 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,680 Read between the lines in the rule book, especially of it you 498 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:34,520 know some rule books are better than others and you know it's 499 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,560 quite difficult feat to fit in 27 Yeah, different rule. 500 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,560 Books. It's it's true, you know, but 501 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,840 The thing is, you know, as as hobbyists, there are trends, 502 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:45,880 right? Yeah. 503 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,000 So Black Forest is a perfect example. 504 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,680 It's classic UE. If you play Huey Rosenberg's 505 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:55,560 games, then you know his design, you know how his generally the 506 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,120 mechanics work, right. And we'll talk about not only 507 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,840 theme but mechanics in the second segment of the show. 508 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,320 So you can you could pick it up really easily. 509 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,280 So sorry, I needed to learn a few things. 510 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,280 That one was weird because it had the two wheels that kind of 511 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,640 manage your resources. And so sometimes you had to 512 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,960 spend resources so that you can make others. 513 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:22,560 It was Black Forest, pick it up at your pick it up at your local 514 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,840 game store now. Yeah, it's just it was it was 515 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,920 really interesting. And we did that with every 516 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:31,920 single game. And of course we're doing it at 517 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:38,080 two players. So it's like, OK, it's it's not 518 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,040 easy. I'm I'm looking at some of my 519 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,600 notes from the from the conference because from trying 520 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:48,640 to what's another another one was Stone Spire Architects. 521 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,080 I've seen a lot about. That same thing, we picked up 522 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,120 the rule book, we looked at it. That game was great. 523 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,480 We're really big into cartographers, so we have role 524 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,280 player and all of its expansions. 525 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,200 So we were like we're familiar with the world. 526 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:09,240 So it helped us, right. I think if, if you're one of the 527 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:13,680 beautiful things with these play to win libraries is I think the 528 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:18,160 best thing to do is take someone who's either new to the hobby or 529 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:23,640 like early in the hobby, right? Because you know, some of these 530 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,200 games, like I'm, I'm referencing other games to be like, well, I 531 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,280 know this world. So I mean, you know, right. 532 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,720 So it, it, it makes it intuitive, but what if you don't 533 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,080 have that right? What what if PJI have never 534 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:42,960 played a board game beyond the classic Pluto and Monopoly? 535 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:52,080 Monopoly, you know, and so how could I enjoy these games and 536 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,080 get in as many of them? Well, you may not get in as many 537 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:59,440 of them, but I think it's a great way where to teach the 538 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:03,200 game, right? I could teach it to you. 539 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,720 And then you're like, oh, OK. And then you get familiar with 540 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:10,120 more games, which is why it's really good to play as many as 541 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,760 you can. You know, it's great because now 542 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,720 we've set up, there are games we're looking forward to in 2025 543 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,480 that we wouldn't have known. So one of the things I 544 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,680 absolutely love about the Play to Win libraries, there's 545 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,320 another convention in March. I'll be going with Adam from 546 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,800 Tabletop Vibes. He and I are going to go down. 547 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,560 We're going to meet some other content creators in Nashville, 548 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:34,760 TN will go to Tennessee game days. 549 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:36,640 They too have a Play to Win Library. 550 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,680 The real thing about the Play to Win Library is that it gives you 551 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:45,600 an opportunity to play a game and then be on the lookout for 552 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:52,560 it in the future, and you get a chance to win them at the end. 553 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,160 That's really nice. I don't think we have anything. 554 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:56,720 We have nothing. Like that in the. 555 00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:01,600 UK like that do, yeah. And so, and Becky, you asked me 556 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:06,640 before we were before the recording, yes, we won two 557 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:11,240 different games because you're only allowed one per person, 558 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:12,920 right? And not everybody's going to win 559 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,560 because there's not 400 copies of these games. 560 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:21,200 But I won a copy of Men Nefer again, we'll talk more about it. 561 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:23,480 And Katie won a copy of Civilution. 562 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,640 So the two big heavy games that were our favorites, we both got 563 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:29,720 a copy and it's beautiful because we're in the same 564 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,080 household. So we get two games, we get 2 565 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,560 free games in the same household, which is amazing. 566 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,240 And like you said, not everyone does this right. 567 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:45,240 Not conventions in in England don't have this play to win, but 568 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:50,840 but y'all have something we don't like. 569 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,200 Not that I'm aware of anywhere in the United States, maybe New 570 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:55,760 York City and Los Angeles. I don't know. 571 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:04,800 It would be really cool if there was a way to be able to rent a 572 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,600 game so that I could play it and then determine if I wanted to 573 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,000 buy it. But I think you you, you got 574 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:11,080 something like that, don't you? I. 575 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,600 Don't know, do do we? Yes, we do. 576 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,040 It always comes as a surprise to you. 577 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:18,719 I'm shocked. Sorry, what's happening? 578 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,080 Rent Shuffle. And roll who? 579 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,280 You know, talk about them, he just said right into it. 580 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,360 Amazing go. I did a really good job and I'm 581 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:30,600 really upset with you right now. Hello ladies and gentlemen, this 582 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,400 podcast is sponsored by Rent Shuffle and Roll. 583 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,520 Rent Shuffle and Roll, as you would have heard, is a fantastic 584 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:42,239 board game rental service. Here in Old Blighty itself, they 585 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:43,719 rent. Hundreds. 586 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,400 If not thousands, if not millions, but maybe hundreds of 587 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,600 board games to you lovely folks. So you can try board games 588 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:54,360 before you buy board games. So why not sign up to rent 589 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:58,760 shuffle and roll on a lovely monthly basis and play your most 590 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,200 wished board games? And that's not all. 591 00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:08,040 If you use the code GI TG50, that's GI TG50 you will get 50% 592 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:11,040 off your first month of rent, shuffle and roll. 593 00:35:11,720 --> 00:35:12,880 If you. Use code. 594 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,760 Meeple to meeple it'll say invalid code. 595 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,440 Please type in something else and you'll have to type in GIT 596 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:22,240 GG50. Yeah. 50%. 597 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:27,160 Wonderful. Thank. 598 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:28,800 You very much for that beautiful segue. 599 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,160 I enjoyed it because if your local. 600 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,320 Game conventions don't offer a play to win option. 601 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:38,280 Rank Shuffle and Roll is an excellent, excellent way for you 602 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:43,400 and old lady to rent a game. And don't forget the code GI 603 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:49,040 TG50 for 50% off exactly 2 of you in. 604 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,000 The room it's. Really the and you are wondering 605 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:53,720 what? Sort of games they have for Rent 606 00:35:53,720 --> 00:35:55,680 Shuffle and Roll. Rent Shuffle and Roll often do 607 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:59,520 the the library at either Air Con or UKGE. 608 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,680 So you can actually play Rent Shuffle and Roll's board games 609 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,480 and meet them at conventions and see what they're all about. 610 00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:10,400 And at UKGE you can try and open the safe because that's fun. 611 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,640 Wait, tell me more. About the safe, Oh, it's a 612 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,640 little. Gimmick that they have, and I 613 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,000 think he's a little gimmick. He's like an. 614 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:19,880 Escape room. You have to solve the puzzle and 615 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:21,200 open. You win prizes. 616 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:22,440 Yeah, you win. Prizes you get. 617 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:27,680 Months you get stuff anyway. So so if I understand. 618 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:32,600 Correctly the your listeners in England can go to rent, shuffle 619 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:37,000 and roll and if they put in the code GI TG50, yes, that's. 620 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:39,200 GIT. GG50. 621 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,120 What'll happen again? Oh, they'll get 50% off their. 622 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,600 First month's rental with rent, shovel and roll. 623 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:46,160 That is amazing. That's. 624 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:51,040 That's a really great deal. If I lived in England, I'd enter 625 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,080 the code and I would subscribe today. 626 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,360 Absolutely. OK, so. 627 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,760 The second-half of this wonderful episode is all about 628 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,840 teaching games and how best to do that. 629 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,200 Is it through the theme? Is it through the mechanics? 630 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:12,520 Yeah, What you're thinking, PJ? Yeah, so. 631 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,840 We talked about this a lot and I think it's a great topic to talk 632 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,640 about is teaching games is difficult. 633 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:25,320 It's it's already one thing to learn and store all the rules in 634 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:29,200 your head to just play a game. What if you have to teach? 635 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,920 And that's a skill that needs to be nurtured. 636 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:36,640 And you approached Gareth and I about this? 637 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:39,400 Yeah, before. The holidays this. 638 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:41,560 Is we've been building up to this? 639 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,280 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We want to. 640 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:51,480 Talk about how themes and mechanics or mechanics can help 641 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:54,640 teach a game, right? Yeah, absolutely. 642 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,400 I mean. The I mean the first thing like 643 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,720 you can learn how to play a game and you can play a game. 644 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,120 That's one thing. Learning a game and being able 645 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,960 to play a game is one thing, but being able to teach a board 646 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,840 game, there's, there's a real skill in that. 647 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:15,600 Being able to know and break down the core bits of a board 648 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,880 game to get someone who knows nothing to be able to nothing 649 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,400 about the game, whether they're a beginner or they've played 650 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:22,880 other board games, but they don't know anything about the 651 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:27,960 game to really get involved. Like learning that skill is that 652 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,880 it's a skill that is that some people have and some people 653 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,440 sadly just just don't really. They don't. 654 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:34,640 They don't have it. They don't have it. 655 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,840 So how hard can it really be to teach a game? 656 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,680 Well, I'm glad you asked that question because I'm here to 657 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,800 tell you that I'm still trying to teach you that this is 658 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:51,320 episode one O 7 of people to people is that I'm not quite 659 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:52,200 sure about that. I think this. 660 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,680 I'm pretty sure this is episode 40 last I heard. 661 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:58,560 Last time I heard so. So. 662 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:01,560 You could see, you can see teaching. 663 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,520 Teaching can be very difficult. Something as simple as this is 664 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,960 in fact episode one O 7 of Meeple to Meeple. 665 00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:15,560 And you want me to teach a complex game like On Mars or 666 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:20,440 Menefer or, you know, anything else like that? 667 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:24,280 Yeah, that's a real challenge. So Becky, what do you think 668 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,720 about theme and mechanics generally speaking, about how 669 00:39:27,720 --> 00:39:35,040 that helps you to teach games? So I think, I think I've done a 670 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:37,640 like a 180. I used to read the rule book and 671 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:43,320 go, right, This is what you have to do logically in sequence, the 672 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,600 steps you have to take to complete the game. 673 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:48,440 Like this is how your term works. 674 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:52,320 This is the term structure. You know, you do this, I'll do 675 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,200 this, you do this and I'll do this. 676 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:59,680 But I think when you came over, I like, feel like I was missing 677 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:04,200 something because there's so many games that have like 678 00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:07,360 brilliant themes. And then I think, oh, actually, 679 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,760 if I think about it in terms of the theme, I'm going to get so 680 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:15,400 much more out of it than just learning like, do this, do that, 681 00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:19,080 do that. And games have that. 682 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,800 Inherent in the rule book, but it's the one thing that we all 683 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,520 essentially skip over and that's the flavour text, the story and 684 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:29,320 the flavour within that gives you the theme and gives you a 685 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,480 reason as what? What am I doing? 686 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,120 I'm placing my worker here to gain something. 687 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,680 Why am I doing that? I'm doing that to do that. 688 00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,520 What's what's that got to do with the theme of the game, 689 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,640 right? And it just really just unlocks. 690 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:49,480 Something so not to. Pour salt in an old wound, but 691 00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,280 it's directly related to the theme as connected to the 692 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,840 gameplay. While Becky can't take turns 693 00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,160 when we're playing heat to the metal. 694 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:04,640 I've heard this, Beck, Becky failed a key element that if you 695 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:08,240 play this game with Katie and you don't follow this, you don't 696 00:41:08,240 --> 00:41:10,720 do this, you're going to get an earful. 697 00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:12,920 I know that's hard to believe because she's quiet and 698 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:14,840 introverted. It is. 699 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,360 Important that when? You, if you've never played Heat 700 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:21,560 Pedal to Metal, you play cards based on the gear that you are 701 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:25,000 currently in, one, 2-3 or four. So you play those cards down and 702 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,480 you add up the sum of those numbers and that's the spaces 703 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:31,040 you move on the racetrack. It is very important that as 704 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:35,720 you're moving your car, you have to make the car noises. 705 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:43,600 You're a race, so you have to go and if you just go room, she's 706 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:48,760 mad and if you just go 123456 and move your car, she's like 707 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,560 this is not sorry. This is not monopoly. 708 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,920 You are not moving on a board. You've got to embrace the theme. 709 00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:03,640 So maybe, maybe, maybe you could take turns more if you make a 710 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:05,320 car noise, right? But then it's it's. 711 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:08,200 Things like heat. Like learning? 712 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:11,440 Like you, you were just, you were quite cool on heat. 713 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,200 You just didn't really. I see what you did fine. 714 00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:17,680 But. It was worth the shot, wasn't 715 00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:18,000 it? Really. 716 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:19,840 Yeah, Yeah. Someone laughed. 717 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:26,480 I But once, like you really thought about why you're doing 718 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:31,160 what you're doing. It unlocked something else. 719 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:32,800 It was like when we. Played. 720 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,160 Obsession, You were always a bit like, this is fine, I'm just 721 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:37,800 playing cards, I'm doing this, I'm doing that. 722 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:42,320 But then when you were sort of. Introducing the characters. 723 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,280 Into your house. You're bringing them in and 724 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:48,120 you're really bringing them in part of the theme and embracing 725 00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:50,640 it. Then you're changing. 726 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,280 You're you're you're bringing yourself in, aren't you? 727 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:56,920 You're more, yeah, but I, I. Definitely think that sometimes 728 00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:01,680 after work we'll play a game and I'm like, well that was like a 729 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:05,040 rubbish play or a rubbish game or maybe I wasn't playing it 730 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,880 right. But I think it depends how much 731 00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:14,200 you invest in going into that world because you can definitely 732 00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:20,400 play games just very mechanically, but it's not fun. 733 00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:23,520 Like some of the best experiences, and we've talked 734 00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:26,880 about this before, are ones where you all invest. 735 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:30,160 You know, you turn your phones off, you're completely in the 736 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,400 game. And I think like something like 737 00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:34,680 Dark Tower is a perfect example of this. 738 00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,920 I don't want to be in my phone because I want to see what's 739 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:39,480 going to happen to all these creatures. 740 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:42,920 And I, I and I, you know, it's ironic because there is a iPad 741 00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:46,400 attached to it. But, you know, like I'm in that 742 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,720 world. And for the hour or however long 743 00:43:48,720 --> 00:43:53,840 it takes to play it, I am, you know, trying to escape from this 744 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,040 world. And I think. 745 00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:00,640 Games. A lot of games are far. 746 00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,520 More inviting. And far more interesting if you 747 00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:06,840 immerse yourself in the world that somebody took a long time 748 00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,480 to actually create right? And it makes. 749 00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,240 It easier to teach. Actually, if you can say, you 750 00:44:13,240 --> 00:44:16,000 know, well, we're here. We're we're going shopping in 751 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,120 the market to collect. We, well, for example, we played 752 00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:20,760 Survival of the Fascist yesterday. 753 00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:22,160 Yeah. And you can play that. 754 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,640 Oh, I'm just picking up cars and I'm just removing my creature. 755 00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,400 Or you can be like, right, we're, you know, we're foraging 756 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,320 for food because the winter's coming and we've got to save up. 757 00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:30,560 And. Yeah. 758 00:44:31,720 --> 00:44:34,920 And then if you're in it, you're like, oh, OK, I get it. 759 00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:38,840 Yeah, it's not like monotonous, monotonous. 760 00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:40,280 I'm doing this, then I'm doing this then. 761 00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:45,200 Yeah, right, right. So should we talk about my 762 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:49,200 first, my first title that I think is a perfect? 763 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:51,360 Example of what we. Just explained. 764 00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:56,720 So I want to talk about Distilled by Patterson Games. 765 00:44:56,720 --> 00:44:58,880 It's a game that the three of us know well. 766 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:05,160 I think the theme of that game is really helpful when you're 767 00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:09,680 trying to teach it because the designers did so much homework 768 00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:15,760 and research into the theme of distilling alcohol and 769 00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:19,120 translating that into a beautiful board game, right? 770 00:45:19,720 --> 00:45:21,720 People have heard me talk about it before. 771 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:25,520 What makes that game stand out from all other games is the 772 00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:29,440 distill phase, right? When you put all of your 773 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,120 ingredients after you've gone to market. 774 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,920 So the market phase and you got your water and your yeast, cause 775 00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:37,880 those are the two main ingredients you need, right? 776 00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,920 And then your sugar, cause your sugar will generate alcohol. 777 00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:46,160 Otherwise what's the point? And so the theme will allow you 778 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,400 to teach the game. It's like, well, you got it in 779 00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:50,880 the market. You need your water and eats, 780 00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:52,680 but you also need sugar for alcohol, right? 781 00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,320 So make sure you buy that and put that in your back wall, your 782 00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,360 wash back, back wash out. Can't believe I said that. 783 00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:02,000 And then that distill. Phase, right? 784 00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:07,360 So we don't have distillers, big massive tanks, but what we do 785 00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,440 have is we have these cards and so we shuffle them up and the 786 00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,720 bottom card because that's the drags at the bottom of the tank. 787 00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:18,360 And then the top card, which is the foam from the fermentation 788 00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:22,520 process that gets skimmed off. So when you're distilling 789 00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:29,280 alcohol, you have to use the core of the liquid product in 790 00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:31,600 the distill and that's represented in that. 791 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:34,040 And then you put them in your barrels and you age them. 792 00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:38,640 So everything in that game is directly connected to the theme 793 00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,720 that can help teach that game to someone. 794 00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:45,640 This is why you do it. Not because an arbitrary rule 795 00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,240 book says it, but this. This is why. 796 00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:49,760 Right. Yeah. 797 00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,560 What do you, what do you think? Because you could just say. 798 00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:55,120 Right, you're going to go to the market, pick up whatever you 799 00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,600 want, and then you're going to take the top card off and you're 800 00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:59,440 going to take the bottom card off and there you go. 801 00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,680 You see what you made and people would be like, sorry, what? 802 00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,240 What I've got to do what I don't. 803 00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:07,800 Understand. But the theme is also. 804 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:11,600 Yes, it's so important for like teaching a game. 805 00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:13,480 Like this is the theme. This is what you're doing. 806 00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:15,800 This is why you're doing it. But it's also part of selling 807 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,760 the game, because if someone is just the game and it's like, 808 00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:20,600 yeah, you, what you're doing is you're just doing this. 809 00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:23,680 And then it'll be my turn and I'll do this and then you do 810 00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,240 that and then I'll do this and then you, that's kind of, that 811 00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:28,600 sounds really boring. But if you explain this is the 812 00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:30,960 theme, this is what we're doing, it's like, oh, you've sold me on 813 00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:32,360 the game. Now I really want to play it. 814 00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:37,880 I have to remind. Myself to play like PJ because 815 00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:41,800 no, it's true, because the last time we played distilled, I 816 00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,800 think we played it like, Oh yeah, you do this and we make 817 00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:48,400 this and like at the end of it we were kind of like, well, it 818 00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,040 was, yeah, it's a good game. So it's it's never going to be 819 00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:54,680 like a bad play. But we weren't like immersed in 820 00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:56,720 it. Whereas when I play and I'm 821 00:47:56,720 --> 00:48:00,880 like, oh, I'm going to try and make vodka and I'm going to use 822 00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:06,280 my, I don't know, one of the, you know, helper people, what 823 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,680 they called, I don't know lots of them in the game. 824 00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:11,880 I'm going to use one of those. And I'm like talking through 825 00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,160 what I'm going to do. And you know, how's, how's it 826 00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:15,760 going in your brewery or whatever. 827 00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:20,800 And you start talking as if you are running a brewery, then it's 828 00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:24,320 much more exciting. You're enthusing other people 829 00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:26,800 who you're playing with and selling. 830 00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:27,600 It in that. Way. 831 00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,440 And then you're like, you get people hooked because you're 832 00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,600 like, Oh yeah, I'm having an experience rather than I'm 833 00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:35,760 playing an audience. Yeah, exactly. 834 00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:38,080 Yeah, so I'll be honest with you. 835 00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:43,200 I don't teach many games. I'm not. 836 00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,200 And Craig and I were talking about the skill of teaching. 837 00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:49,440 I'm not very good at it. I'm only good at it when the 838 00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:55,200 theme shines through, Right? I guess because I'm a historian 839 00:48:55,200 --> 00:49:00,000 and I'm a student of humans. And why, why did Paverson design 840 00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:00,800 this game? Right. 841 00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,440 Otherwise, just, you know, I think we talked about it when we 842 00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:08,200 were over visiting with you is like these designers have chosen 843 00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:12,080 these themes, they've done their homework, so we can't just 844 00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:16,320 ignore that. But I think to the part of our 845 00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,440 conversation today is how does that theme assist you with 846 00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,440 teaching? So when the theme is is tied 847 00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:27,640 like distilled, like obsession other games, it's easier for me 848 00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:32,440 to teach, right. I I think it's also connected to 849 00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:38,480 you had written down in my notes to prepare for this podcast. 850 00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:42,400 How do people have I prepared anything? 851 00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:44,880 I've got, I've got, I've got some St. cred to maintain here. 852 00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:47,720 Stop it for for the record, it was. 853 00:49:47,720 --> 00:49:49,720 Not Craig. It was indeed Becky who had 854 00:49:49,720 --> 00:49:52,160 outlined all this. She kept this organized. 855 00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:55,000 People, people learn differently, right? 856 00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:58,400 I mean. You're an educator. 857 00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:00,440 You. Understand that some people are 858 00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:03,040 visual learners, so they need to watch a video. 859 00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:06,120 Others are, you know, they can read and just absorb. 860 00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:08,760 And I don't know all the terminology that is used in the 861 00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:11,800 way people learn, but I'm sure you you could speak a little bit 862 00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:13,360 about that. I think that. 863 00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,960 You have to. Watch the table. 864 00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:21,600 And by that I mean like if you're teaching a new game to 865 00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:25,600 people, you can kind of get the gist of whether they're people 866 00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:29,840 who you could kind of run through a quick turn and then 867 00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,840 everybody has a go and they're going to learn on the job of 868 00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,840 like, you know, while you're playing or whether you need to 869 00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:39,240 do a full on teach or whether you need to. 870 00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:43,040 Sometimes I think we adapt a game slightly, maybe if it's 871 00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:46,080 possible to to change something or take something out that's a 872 00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:49,880 bit more tricky. Like when we played Ark Nova and 873 00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:57,120 you said about actually we don't do the kind of take thaty nature 874 00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:59,400 of Ark Nova. You know, actually I was like, 875 00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,400 oh, OK, so you don't have to do that. 876 00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,360 Oh, immediately now I'm more invested because I don't like to 877 00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:07,520 take that element. So I think it's kind of knowing 878 00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:11,240 your crowd and knowing how best they learn. 879 00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:16,080 Yeah, it's, it's a difficult. One, I mean, I like for a job 880 00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:22,720 have to essentially teach a game within 5 minutes and then off to 881 00:51:22,720 --> 00:51:27,760 the next person and I have to kind of gauge a table of 246. 882 00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:32,280 However many people there gauge their skill set of what games 883 00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:34,760 they've played before and be able to teach them a brand new 884 00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:39,240 game potentially in about 5 minutes if that if I'm lucky and 885 00:51:39,240 --> 00:51:41,560 get them going and make sure they're happy. 886 00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:44,960 And to do that. A lot of the time it is purely 887 00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:48,800 based on this is the theme you're doing these things and 888 00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:50,720 this is a really basic overview go. 889 00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:56,680 I find it much easier with kids. Like with kids you can go stomp 890 00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,560 the plank, for example. Stomp the plank is pure push 891 00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:01,560 your luck card game. You're flipping cards 892 00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:04,120 mechanically and if you get a say, you're moving your 893 00:52:04,120 --> 00:52:07,160 elephant. But will I ever, if I'm ever 894 00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:11,920 teaching kids that game, I will go full character mode and 895 00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:14,360 explain how you're trying to steal treasure from the evil 896 00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:16,880 Captain Giraffe, but you've been caught and you're walking the 897 00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:18,800 plank. But can you steal the treasure 898 00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:20,520 in time? Can you manage to get? 899 00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:25,320 I will go into a full thematic overview of the game, barely 900 00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:29,600 touch on the surface of what they're doing mechanically. 901 00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:31,720 In the. Game and it's almost like. 902 00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:37,480 That's what we should be doing. To the adults as well, because 903 00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:41,280 that's the theme of the game. That's what you're doing, yeah. 904 00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:43,280 Mechanically you're doing some things, and there's some 905 00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:47,320 confusing things, and some publishers probably put in 906 00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:50,800 different terminology. That's another. 907 00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:53,080 Thing. That's all all, all. 908 00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:55,200 Well put. Put a pin in that one. 909 00:52:55,360 --> 00:53:00,720 But when people decide that the same thing, the same thing, the 910 00:53:00,720 --> 00:53:06,440 same thing is a just a different word, just a different word. 911 00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:08,920 What do you mean give? An example the for my. 912 00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:12,320 Example would be the lovely game that I really do love, 913 00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,840 Expeditions. When it says. 914 00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:20,040 You can take a sweep action, Yeah, it's just. 915 00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:23,160 It's just a discard action. It's just. 916 00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:25,760 It's just discarding. Why? 917 00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:26,680 Why? Why am I? 918 00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:31,680 Why is it a sweep action? It's like Magic the Gathering. 919 00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:37,000 You tap your card to use, use your ability and attack someone. 920 00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:43,400 In Star Wars Unlimited, you exhaust your unit to do that, 921 00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:47,600 and then I think in Lucan it's something else as well, but 922 00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:49,360 there's. Yeah, but that's a little, 923 00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:53,360 there's a, there's a, there's a legal, there's a legal reason 924 00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:56,200 why. It's because the company that 925 00:53:56,200 --> 00:54:00,720 put on Magic the Gathering, they trademarked the tap, the tap. 926 00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:04,560 So you can't, you can't do that. But the sweep. 927 00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:07,120 Yeah. Yeah, is 1. 928 00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:09,680 Of those. Things that's a bit more of a a 929 00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:13,640 positive, while I agree with. Everything you said, it's it's 930 00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:17,680 silly, but but there it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 931 00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:19,840 No, I get that. I totally get that. 932 00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:23,800 Yeah, so I. Think you're absolutely right 933 00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:27,640 once again, Craig, I, I I definitely agree with the using 934 00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:29,600 a different terminology and everything, but. 935 00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:33,040 And I think sometimes those are obstacles to teaching. 936 00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:35,320 I don't know, what do you think? Yeah, I mean. 937 00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:39,280 I think they're definitely, I think they're, they're an 938 00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:40,640 obstacle to learning and to teaching. 939 00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:44,320 Like you've got to look at that and go, what does this word 940 00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:46,840 mean? Flick through the book for ages 941 00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:48,480 and work it out. And then you're like, oh, it 942 00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:51,080 just means this. And then when you teach it, you 943 00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:52,960 just say discard. You don't even use the 944 00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:56,200 terminology in the game because the terminology that people 945 00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:59,040 understand is the base terminology of discard a card, 946 00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:03,480 tap a card. Do this I think the easiest. 947 00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:07,080 Games to teach are also ones that come with a player aid or 948 00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:11,800 something to to aid, you know, so once you've explained it, 949 00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:15,360 sometimes you might want to just check back on what I symbol 950 00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:18,200 meant or something. And I think people don't like to 951 00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:21,120 play games where they have to keep asking questions of the 952 00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:24,160 person who's teaching it. And so they can have something 953 00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:30,400 to refer back to or even like Wingspan has the play this like 954 00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:33,680 it's, it's like a tutorial version of Wingspan that you can 955 00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:35,840 play. And then like once everybody 956 00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:40,000 sorted, OK, let's play the proper game, Seti is a great. 957 00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:43,040 Example of like the biggest, like one of the most one quite 958 00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:47,160 complicated game, but so easy to teach because of that player aid 959 00:55:47,720 --> 00:55:50,280 it's just like perfect, isn't it? 960 00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:52,920 Yeah, or. Like a quick rule view on the 961 00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:57,360 back of the rule book so you don't have to keep going. 962 00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:00,880 Through pages and pages. I think a clear rule book is 963 00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:04,920 helpful for somebody learning it, but also for teaching it, as 964 00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:08,280 you can say, well, you know, go to that page or have this page 965 00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:10,640 open in front of you for when you want to do that action. 966 00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:15,440 I think complicated rule books are difficult one for the person 967 00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:18,200 who's trying to learn it, but also, you know, if somebody 968 00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:20,800 wants to check a quick rule clarification, it's never that 969 00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:23,400 easy, is it? So yeah, Yeah, also. 970 00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:26,840 An obstacle. So I've got a second game. 971 00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:31,280 That I want to talk about where the theme is so integrated 972 00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:37,280 right, much like to steal and that's men Nefer I promised I 973 00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:39,640 promised I was going to talk about it I'd share somebody. 974 00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:47,640 OK, so you. Are living in ancient Egypt and 975 00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:51,520 there is there's so many sections of the game. 976 00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:53,400 This is much much more heavyweight. 977 00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:56,600 I think it's a 3.75 on board game geek. 978 00:56:56,600 --> 00:57:01,960 I may be wrong, I don't pay much attention to that, but so 979 00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:07,800 there's the building of the pyramids of Giza. 980 00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:13,400 You also have to sail your boat up the Nile River and you can go 981 00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:18,080 into the cities, dock at the cities to, to to gain contracts 982 00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:19,720 that you want to fulfill later on. 983 00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:24,240 You have to bury your dead in the necropolis, go to the temple 984 00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:27,800 to present goods to appease the gods, right? 985 00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:31,960 And build the Sphinx and place them out. 986 00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:34,440 And all these will generate you points and whatnot. 987 00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:38,480 Here's the key. At the very top, you have your 988 00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:42,240 heart and your feather, and they're far apart. 989 00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:49,360 So at the end of each round you lose points for every mark 990 00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:52,800 between the two. You need to get them into 991 00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:56,240 harmony. This is directly connected to 992 00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:59,400 the way that the ancient Egyptians viewed death. 993 00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:04,760 When you when you die, they would weigh your heart against a 994 00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:07,040 feather. And if you lived a harmonious 995 00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:09,160 life, you would be able to pass on. 996 00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:12,160 And so you have to do that. And then once you crossover, 997 00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:16,800 once your two pieces crossover, you start gaining victory points 998 00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:20,480 because you lose victory points at the end of every round until 999 00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:25,800 you achieve harmony. So taking actions that gain you 1000 00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:29,280 hearts and feathers. When you explain that, you 1001 00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:33,320 understand why that is such a key component of the game. 1002 00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:35,080 You're constantly looking to do that. 1003 00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:41,280 But on your player, Matt, you've got Sphinx, wooden sphinxes and 1004 00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:44,200 sarcophagi. Here's the interesting thing. 1005 00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:47,960 The sarcophagi, on one side, you can kind of see a mummy. 1006 00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:51,680 On the other side, it's the decorative lid of the 1007 00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:55,120 sarcophagus. So here's the thing, you have to 1008 00:58:55,160 --> 00:59:00,200 embalm the dead person first, meaning flip it over on your 1009 00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:04,480 player mat before you can place the sarcophagus in the 1010 00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:07,120 necropolis. So that theme, it's still the 1011 00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:10,880 mechanics of you need to flip it to put it over there. 1012 00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:15,040 I could tell you to do that without it, but but you have to 1013 00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:19,520 embalm before you can bury that. I mean, that's still true today. 1014 00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:24,760 The sphinxes, you, you take an action to move them over. 1015 00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:28,440 That represents sculpting. You got to sculpt it before you 1016 00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:31,680 can put it in place, right? So you do that as well. 1017 00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:33,920 Same thing with moving of the limestone. 1018 00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:39,240 You build the pyramids in layers on the top of each quarter. 1019 00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:43,280 Yes, because they're dividing. 4 top of each quarter is an icon, 1020 00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:47,760 a fish, feather, heart, and unks because those are the resources 1021 00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:51,200 of the game. Whatever icon you cover, you 1022 00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:54,360 will gain 1 of that resource, and the one that's on the top 1023 00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:59,560 that you're placing, you will gain one of those in order to 1024 00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:02,400 take the action where you move your worshippers into the 1025 01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:05,160 temple. But you have to take the action 1026 01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:09,880 to get goods 1st and put those goods on your player board so 1027 01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:13,880 that you have them to give as an offering in the temple. 1028 01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:17,880 Everything is connected mechanically, but it's 1029 01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:20,920 immediately. It's tied into the theme so 1030 01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:23,400 beautifully. I don't have goods, I can't give 1031 01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:26,520 offerings, I don't embalm, I can't bury. 1032 01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:28,560 I can't build the top of the pyramid. 1033 01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:30,240 I got to build the bottom first, right? 1034 01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:31,880 When you say it like that, it sounds. 1035 01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:35,400 So simple, but I'm, I'm guessing some people will be reading the 1036 01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:38,520 rule book going right. OK, so I can, you know, I can do 1037 01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:40,560 this or I can do this or I can do this. 1038 01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:44,160 And you, the way you've just summarized it, which I guess is 1039 01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:48,760 like a good teacher is like, OK, so here's what you can do as an 1040 01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:53,040 ancient Egyptian. And and then I'm immediately 1041 01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:56,800 more clear on which actions I can take because I'm like, I've 1042 01:00:56,800 --> 01:01:00,440 got to get my goods because let's talk. 1043 01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:03,240 About mechanically for a minute with men, never right. 1044 01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:07,760 So the actions you can take is you can move limestone, which 1045 01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:09,320 will result in building appearance. 1046 01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:15,000 You can flip over sarcophagus. And then later on you can move 1047 01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:16,800 the sarcophagus into the necropolis. 1048 01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:20,320 You can move your boat, move your boat into the building. 1049 01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:24,160 You can activate it, get fish. If it's in the river, get a 1050 01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:27,720 contract if it's in the city, you move the temple. 1051 01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:29,800 I mean, it's like it's mechanically it's you're just 1052 01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:33,360 moving up these tracks and you're putting these pieces out 1053 01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:36,960 and things are happening and you're getting resources for it. 1054 01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:40,360 Yeah, mechanically, But why, right? 1055 01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:45,600 Why this why this piece? Why this component goes there, 1056 01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:47,560 right? The designers, Oh my God, they 1057 01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:49,160 did the research on it's so good. 1058 01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:52,000 It's so good, and I can't wait to play it with you and I hope 1059 01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:55,880 everybody gets a copy of Men Nefer because it's just amazing. 1060 01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:58,960 But the why? Is really important because the 1061 01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:02,880 why is the reason for the people to be playing in the fact if 1062 01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:06,240 you're trying to introduce a new game, they're like, OK, but why? 1063 01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:08,360 Because I've got other games that I like. 1064 01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:12,280 Why not play Monopoly? Why not play Kudo? 1065 01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:14,240 I already play those games. I know those games. 1066 01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:18,000 Let's play that. So the why is the look come, I'm 1067 01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:21,640 going to show you this world. You know, you can be an ancient 1068 01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:27,800 Egyptian in 2025 and you can enjoy that world for 30-40 1069 01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:30,920 minutes or however long the game plays and you can immerse 1070 01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:34,400 yourself in this storyline that we have created together and we 1071 01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:35,600 will have an experience together. 1072 01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:37,240 But that's that's the thing, isn't? 1073 01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:40,120 It you want to immerse with games, you are wanting to 1074 01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:42,520 immerse yourself in that. You don't want to be. 1075 01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:44,880 You're playing the board game to escape real life. 1076 01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:49,440 You don't want to be like, well, I've got to play 3 cards. 1077 01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:51,320 I can do this. They're the things that I'm 1078 01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:54,840 doing. I can flip this like I'm want to 1079 01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:58,960 be doing the actions. I want to be taking part in the 1080 01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:01,920 world that I'm in. I don't want to be, but I think 1081 01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:03,600 sometimes. The Y gets forgotten because 1082 01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:08,680 we've certainly had like games days where the sole concern is 1083 01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:12,520 to try to play as many games as we can and new games that we can 1084 01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:14,680 as well. So you're like, right, we're 1085 01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:16,600 going to play this game, right? Put that away, now we're going 1086 01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:19,840 to play this game. I think. 1087 01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:24,400 Sometimes it's much better to just slow everything down and be 1088 01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:27,600 like, right, we're going to play well, we're going to have this. 1089 01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:32,480 I keep saying experience, you know, things like I remember 1090 01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:34,400 playing Obsession, I remember playing Heat. 1091 01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:37,920 They're very vivid in my mind. I've played a lot of games with 1092 01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:40,800 other people, but they they don't stick in my mind for the 1093 01:03:40,800 --> 01:03:44,760 same reason, because we didn't experience it in the same way. 1094 01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:46,480 We weren't in Master. We played. 1095 01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:51,600 Molly Khan, we played that epic five player game of side and it 1096 01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:54,120 was an amazing game. It was so good. 1097 01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:56,280 We played with everyone. It was really cool. 1098 01:03:56,280 --> 01:03:58,160 It was fun because we played with everyone. 1099 01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:02,880 But at no point did I really go, I am this character, I'm going 1100 01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:06,080 to do this thing. I was just like, right, I need 1101 01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:08,440 to do this to score these points, to win this thing. 1102 01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:11,360 I need to do this, to do this, to do this, and I need to go to 1103 01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:14,320 war with Steve. That's all I was doing. 1104 01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:18,640 I wasn't thinking thematically, why is my character doing this 1105 01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:20,360 and why do I keep going to war with Steve? 1106 01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:24,880 Probably because it's fun. But there was no, there was no 1107 01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:28,320 theme for me to thematically, I wasn't doing anything with my 1108 01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:31,680 character. I was just being Craig, moving 1109 01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:35,680 toys around a board rather than being Craig. 1110 01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:40,280 But you could explore, yeah. With that theme with. 1111 01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:43,280 The proper theme, yeah. I could have put myself into 1112 01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:48,200 those shoes as to why I was doing that and I think that's. 1113 01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:48,840 Sometimes. Why? 1114 01:04:48,840 --> 01:04:54,320 I enjoy social deduction because you you have no choice but to 1115 01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:56,600 immerse yourself. I I think. 1116 01:04:56,960 --> 01:05:01,040 The only the only time I think maybe there's a drawback to 1117 01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:07,360 theme is that you get so excited by a theme of a game that it 1118 01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:08,280 potentially. Falls. 1119 01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:12,280 Flat when you try and like you're so excited by I mean, I'm 1120 01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:14,520 sure it's happened and what happened? 1121 01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:17,760 It happened at work. I, I love Cascadia. 1122 01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:20,600 I think it's such a good game. Thematically, it's quite nice. 1123 01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:23,040 You're building out this landscape, you're attracting 1124 01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:25,960 animals, you're trying to. It's a bit abstract though, but 1125 01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:28,680 hey ho. And I get really excited about 1126 01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:31,200 the theme of it and how beautiful it is and how simple 1127 01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:34,040 it is to play. And I recommended it and 1128 01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:36,040 obviously I did a good job recommending it because they was 1129 01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:38,840 really excited about it and they played it and it felt absolutely 1130 01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:40,360 flat. They didn't have a clue what 1131 01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:42,440 they were doing. They were like, this isn't, this 1132 01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:44,840 really isn't for us. And it was like the same 1133 01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:46,680 happened with. Survivorscape Atlantis. 1134 01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:48,400 So we played that with my family. 1135 01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:49,280 Oh yeah. Oh yeah. 1136 01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:52,080 And they were trying to play it so seriously. 1137 01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:53,120 So true. To the. 1138 01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:57,320 Mechanisms that they forgot that this is a an island that's 1139 01:05:57,320 --> 01:06:00,520 essentially sinking and everybody's you know, being lost 1140 01:06:00,520 --> 01:06:03,760 to to the sea and by giant seamont suddenly. 1141 01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:05,200 There's a Whirlpool and actually. 1142 01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:09,400 You know playing that game mechanically to try and win yes, 1143 01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:12,280 obviously that's the point to try and win, but it's way more 1144 01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:18,040 fun to kind of just you know watch the chaos in this shoe and 1145 01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:21,320 imagine that you're in Atlantis with the with the land 1146 01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:26,200 disappear. It's The thing is when you. 1147 01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:30,920 When you approach a game mechanically, it's like, well 1148 01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:35,920 then what is the point? It's just tasks or work 1149 01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:40,880 depending, right? Yeah, so. 1150 01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:43,240 It's it's it's. All about what the individual 1151 01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:48,240 player wants to get out of it. I have a really difficult time 1152 01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:51,720 when the theme is either something I'm not passionate 1153 01:06:51,720 --> 01:06:57,680 about or it's something I'm not. I don't identify with all that. 1154 01:06:57,680 --> 01:07:01,320 That's not always true because distilled I'm not I don't 1155 01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:03,200 identify with like I'm not a big whiskey drinker. 1156 01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:06,920 I'm not a big drinker at all, but that theme just blew my 1157 01:07:06,920 --> 01:07:10,280 mind. If it's a mechanical game, I 1158 01:07:10,280 --> 01:07:14,160 tend to be very like, I think at its core. 1159 01:07:14,160 --> 01:07:16,080 That was the problem with. Faraway was. 1160 01:07:16,080 --> 01:07:19,320 It was just. Mechanics because the. 1161 01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:22,080 Theme didn't do anything for me at all. 1162 01:07:22,600 --> 01:07:25,720 I'm just playing cards on the table, which is how you 1163 01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:29,000 originally felt about Obsession, right? 1164 01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:31,040 Is. I'm playing. 1165 01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:33,320 I'm playing cards and laying tiles down. 1166 01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:35,800 You know. And it's. 1167 01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:40,360 Like, well, hold on now, let's talk about Lady Ashberry, who's 1168 01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:44,760 coming to tea with the lady of, you know, the, the, the Manor, 1169 01:07:44,840 --> 01:07:46,640 you know, whatever. It's like that stuff matters. 1170 01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:51,840 That flavor text is really important as talk about a theme 1171 01:07:51,840 --> 01:07:54,640 that I love and a game. That falls. 1172 01:07:54,640 --> 01:07:57,160 Flat. It's more about the theme. 1173 01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:01,120 That's more about the IP really, and that's Star Trek. 1174 01:08:03,640 --> 01:08:06,440 I don't think there's a good Star Trek board game out there. 1175 01:08:08,080 --> 01:08:11,560 I mean. Ascendance is good but flawed. 1176 01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:15,600 Frontiers is. Good, but flawed. 1177 01:08:17,560 --> 01:08:20,760 There's the new it's. Star Realms basically isn't it, 1178 01:08:20,760 --> 01:08:22,640 but it is. A. 1179 01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:25,319 It is a. Complete reskin with Star Trek 1180 01:08:25,319 --> 01:08:29,200 Over * Realms, but that doesn't technically make. 1181 01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:32,880 Sense thematically that that would be yeah, it's but it. 1182 01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:36,240 Works, It works. It's kind of good. 1183 01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:38,520 It's not great. I'm not looking to play it 1184 01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:40,760 everyday, but I I enjoy it when I play it. 1185 01:08:41,880 --> 01:08:43,880 Yeah. You know, it's like, what is it? 1186 01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:45,880 I think there's a curse of Star Trek. 1187 01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:47,880 It just, you know, there's a lot I can name. 1188 01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:49,880 I can name a lot of Star Wars games I enjoy. 1189 01:08:50,319 --> 01:08:52,160 I can't name a lot of Star Trek games I enjoy. 1190 01:08:52,240 --> 01:08:54,600 Is Starship Captains the. Best Star Trek game? 1191 01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:58,560 See that's. A really good question. 1192 01:08:59,880 --> 01:09:01,200 It's. Like is Nemesis. 1193 01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:06,200 Is Nemesis the best alien game? That's an even better question. 1194 01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:08,040 You were on it today, man. Look at you. 1195 01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:11,160 I try. I have a question and it's 1196 01:09:11,160 --> 01:09:14,240 something that I always found I always find interesting and I 1197 01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:16,399 don't know why I find this interesting, but do you think 1198 01:09:17,560 --> 01:09:18,960 good? Players. 1199 01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:22,640 So players, people who can play a game incredibly well, like 1200 01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:24,359 know all the strategies and know everything. 1201 01:09:25,080 --> 01:09:27,840 Do you think good players make good teachers? 1202 01:09:28,399 --> 01:09:31,840 Absolutely. Not because, because this is. 1203 01:09:31,840 --> 01:09:34,040 Always the thing I've. Always thought because I I've I 1204 01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:38,479 have a degree in performing arts and all the teachers like. 1205 01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:42,680 Your own vote, but none. Of all of the teachers are all 1206 01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:45,479 technically actors who are teaching, but none of them are 1207 01:09:45,479 --> 01:09:47,600 famous. None of them are good actors, 1208 01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:50,439 but they're good teachers. So because if they were good 1209 01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:53,479 actors, we'd be watching them on TV, they wouldn't fit in. 1210 01:09:54,760 --> 01:09:56,800 Classroom. And is it the same with board? 1211 01:09:56,800 --> 01:10:00,720 Like if you've got all the strategy down, like I am an 1212 01:10:00,720 --> 01:10:04,240 absolute master of Seven Wonders Jewel never beaten. 1213 01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:11,240 But, and that's why we had to sell it. 1214 01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:13,200 Unfortunately because I was too good at it. 1215 01:10:13,640 --> 01:10:16,880 Not because it's trash and a really bad dumpster fire of a 1216 01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:21,880 game, but. Yeah, do do do good. 1217 01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:24,760 Players with I don't think they do, I think. 1218 01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:29,080 That sometimes a good player would have so many like they 1219 01:10:29,080 --> 01:10:32,240 would be thinking of the end goal of winning and then 1220 01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:35,960 teaching it through the eyes of right, this is how you're going 1221 01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:39,280 to get the best score. But that doesn't that doesn't 1222 01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:42,120 necessarily mean enjoyment for the people who are playing. 1223 01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:46,440 And then also if you're playing like a cooperative game where 1224 01:10:46,440 --> 01:10:50,200 you're playing all together, potentially somebody who knows 1225 01:10:50,200 --> 01:10:53,600 how to play that game is just taking over the game, alpha 1226 01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:54,960 game. And so it doesn't become. 1227 01:10:56,400 --> 01:10:59,520 Yeah, it doesn't become. Teaching it becomes like I'm 1228 01:10:59,520 --> 01:11:01,880 going to win this game and you're just here for the right, 1229 01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:04,440 you know, like I think there's a level of. 1230 01:11:04,440 --> 01:11:07,160 Teaching as well, that's letting people explore and make the 1231 01:11:07,160 --> 01:11:09,600 mistakes themselves because those people who know all the 1232 01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:11,840 tactics will be like, no, no, what you should do is this, this 1233 01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:13,440 would be the best thing to get the most score. 1234 01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:16,400 No, you need to work that out yourself I think. 1235 01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:21,840 Like when we played Ark Nova, PJ would say, or Katie would say, 1236 01:11:22,040 --> 01:11:23,840 well, have you thought about this? 1237 01:11:24,040 --> 01:11:26,480 You know, have you thought about using this card? 1238 01:11:26,920 --> 01:11:31,040 But then I would play cards and then afterwards, you know, you 1239 01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:34,440 or Katie would say, well, you could have done this, but, you 1240 01:11:34,440 --> 01:11:36,000 know, I didn't want to interrupt. 1241 01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:38,880 And I think that's really good because then every subsequent 1242 01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:43,280 play of Ark Nova, I've gone, Oh yeah, what was it that I made 1243 01:11:43,280 --> 01:11:45,400 that mistake on? Oh, I'm going to try something 1244 01:11:45,400 --> 01:11:47,360 different this time. But if you never, if you never 1245 01:11:47,360 --> 01:11:51,200 make any mistakes, it's like learning, you know, in school, 1246 01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:53,480 we we say if you never make any mistakes, you're not actually 1247 01:11:53,480 --> 01:11:56,640 learning because you've done it right all the time, you know. 1248 01:11:56,640 --> 01:12:01,280 So I think a good teacher sort of sets up the stool and then 1249 01:12:01,280 --> 01:12:04,120 says, have a go, have a play with it, see what happens. 1250 01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:06,920 It's not, might not go right. Yeah, exactly. 1251 01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:10,320 Preach. Preach, Becky, Preach. 1252 01:12:13,160 --> 01:12:13,960 You're not. You're not. 1253 01:12:13,960 --> 01:12:18,200 Wrong at all. I also think that teaching a 1254 01:12:18,200 --> 01:12:25,360 game is not the same as mastering a game, right? 1255 01:12:25,800 --> 01:12:33,960 Yeah, executing, identifying and executing a strategy that wins 1256 01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:38,720 does not necessarily mean that you can communicate that clearly 1257 01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:44,160 and concisely to other people. Yeah, yeah, definitely. 1258 01:12:44,720 --> 01:12:51,560 I would agree with that, yeah. Has it linked to strategies 1259 01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:55,000 within games as well? Like teaching the strategies in 1260 01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:59,600 games is kind of like. It's it's too much for. 1261 01:13:00,200 --> 01:13:03,560 Learning a game, you can't teach a strategy and be like, this is 1262 01:13:03,560 --> 01:13:05,360 how this is the best way to do things. 1263 01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:07,680 It kind of effects, I think the strategy comes. 1264 01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:10,840 Later, I mean, you've done an episode on, well, what was it 1265 01:13:10,840 --> 01:13:12,240 called? What was that fancy word? 1266 01:13:12,480 --> 01:13:15,160 Was that emergent? Emergent. 1267 01:13:15,960 --> 01:13:19,400 Was that word. Emergent qualities, It was the 1268 01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:24,520 emerging qualities in board games where strategies emerge 1269 01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:28,760 after multiple plays, right? But I think that's. 1270 01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:31,560 Different to the teaching like the teaching is you're just 1271 01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:36,520 introducing a game that you know people don't know a new to them 1272 01:13:36,520 --> 01:13:41,560 game and you're trying to essentially sell it and let them 1273 01:13:41,560 --> 01:13:44,360 have an enjoyable experience so they go back to it so that then 1274 01:13:44,360 --> 01:13:47,440 they can learn for themselves the emergence strategies. 1275 01:13:47,440 --> 01:13:48,720 Yeah, exactly that. So I. 1276 01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:50,760 Think if people concentrate on when they're trying to teach 1277 01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:53,440 games, they're also trying to teach people how to win the game 1278 01:13:54,360 --> 01:13:57,240 rather than just teaching the the. 1279 01:13:57,240 --> 01:13:58,800 End goal is obviously. Ideal. 1280 01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:00,960 You need to know the end goal of what you're, what you're trying 1281 01:14:00,960 --> 01:14:03,720 to do and what how to win. But how. 1282 01:14:04,280 --> 01:14:07,280 You need to know how you can win, but you don't need to know 1283 01:14:07,280 --> 01:14:11,800 how you can win that. Makes sense, right? 1284 01:14:12,200 --> 01:14:14,320 How you can you need to know how the. 1285 01:14:14,680 --> 01:14:15,320 End. You know to know. 1286 01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:17,120 The objective. But you don't need to know how 1287 01:14:17,120 --> 01:14:18,640 to win. Yeah, on the way. 1288 01:14:19,360 --> 01:14:21,280 Yes. You just need to play the game 1289 01:14:21,280 --> 01:14:23,160 and. Get a decent we can't all be 1290 01:14:23,160 --> 01:14:23,840 Mecca. Dragon. 1291 01:14:24,320 --> 01:14:25,640 No, no, we. Can't. 1292 01:14:25,640 --> 01:14:32,280 So how do you, how do you handle or approach when you're teaching 1293 01:14:32,280 --> 01:14:37,960 a game to a player or players who after you've taught it, they 1294 01:14:38,120 --> 01:14:43,200 are hyper focused on trying to come up with the best strategy 1295 01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:45,240 to win? It's their first time playing. 1296 01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:48,160 You just did a teach 5 minutes ago, right? 1297 01:14:48,640 --> 01:14:51,080 You want them to enjoy the game. That's what we've been talking 1298 01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:53,800 about, right? Theme helps teacher game theme 1299 01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:56,480 is all about him being immersive and enjoying the game. 1300 01:14:56,840 --> 01:14:59,000 But what do you do when they're like, I'm trying to figure out 1301 01:14:59,400 --> 01:15:02,880 based on what you just told me how I can win this game or get 1302 01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:06,600 the most points out of this turn, get their head out of the 1303 01:15:06,600 --> 01:15:08,600 mechanics and back into the enjoyment. 1304 01:15:08,920 --> 01:15:11,600 How do you handle that? Well, you couldn't. 1305 01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:13,760 Potentially. Think. 1306 01:15:13,920 --> 01:15:16,960 If if the. Game is entwined in the theme, 1307 01:15:17,400 --> 01:15:22,320 as it should be. If you think thematically, that 1308 01:15:22,320 --> 01:15:26,320 should be the strategy to give you the most points out of it. 1309 01:15:26,920 --> 01:15:29,320 Technically because. If you're looking. 1310 01:15:29,320 --> 01:15:33,680 At a distilled, for example. You're you're you're looking at 1311 01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:36,680 the theme. So your tactics is like, OK, I 1312 01:15:36,680 --> 01:15:40,000 want to make I'm going to today we're going to brew gin. 1313 01:15:40,280 --> 01:15:42,520 How do we brew gin? We need fruit sugar. 1314 01:15:42,520 --> 01:15:43,680 We need this, that and the other. 1315 01:15:43,680 --> 01:15:45,280 OK, this is how we're going to brew gin. 1316 01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:48,040 We're going to get the things that we need to specifically do 1317 01:15:48,040 --> 01:15:50,360 the thing. So that's how that's how you get 1318 01:15:50,360 --> 01:15:53,400 the most points out of this. I I also think. 1319 01:15:53,400 --> 01:15:56,680 That I would do what I do with people who have analysis process 1320 01:15:56,680 --> 01:16:00,160 and take my turn extra quickly so they realise that they need. 1321 01:16:04,760 --> 01:16:06,560 I do that and. It doesn't work. 1322 01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:09,280 Because inevitably, what happens? 1323 01:16:09,280 --> 01:16:13,640 Is the player takes so long, I've been like, OK, I'm going to 1324 01:16:13,640 --> 01:16:16,240 do this. And then something happens, the 1325 01:16:16,240 --> 01:16:18,000 board changes like OK, well I'm going to do this. 1326 01:16:18,440 --> 01:16:22,640 And so by the time it gets to my turn, I'm like, I'm done, yeah. 1327 01:16:23,360 --> 01:16:25,680 Because you took so long. And then we're back to you. 1328 01:16:25,680 --> 01:16:28,200 That's the other thing in teaching. 1329 01:16:28,240 --> 01:16:31,320 Like there's no point. Saying this is the. 1330 01:16:31,320 --> 01:16:34,720 Best thing because the board state might completely change by 1331 01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:37,600 the time it gets back round to you so I can give you a strategy 1332 01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:40,800 that will work right this second but when it comes back round to 1333 01:16:40,800 --> 01:16:44,800 you, those resources might be gone that space might be taken 1334 01:16:44,800 --> 01:16:48,120 that card might have been picked up already something else might 1335 01:16:48,120 --> 01:16:50,160 have been played. You might be out of the game 1336 01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:52,240 Echo Dragon might have come along. 1337 01:16:53,760 --> 01:16:55,600 I don't think we. Have many friends who have 1338 01:16:55,600 --> 01:16:57,840 analysis paralysis. So I think we're in a quite a 1339 01:16:57,840 --> 01:17:01,840 lucky position that when we teach new games, you know, 1340 01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:05,320 generally we know each other well enough to know how long our 1341 01:17:05,320 --> 01:17:07,800 terms should take. I think we have friends. 1342 01:17:07,800 --> 01:17:13,360 That math out stuff and they do go, OK, so this is the most 1343 01:17:13,360 --> 01:17:17,600 optimum use of my SO friend of both podcasts. 1344 01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:20,440 Whether it's episode 40 or 107, who knows? 1345 01:17:20,440 --> 01:17:24,720 No one knows John from Try Win Games. 1346 01:17:26,160 --> 01:17:28,840 He tried fromage. I'm a big fan of Fromage. 1347 01:17:28,840 --> 01:17:31,040 I think it's perfect. So are we. 1348 01:17:31,280 --> 01:17:34,840 Light. Like mid to light after work 1349 01:17:34,840 --> 01:17:36,600 worker placement game. You want something that's a bit 1350 01:17:36,600 --> 01:17:39,920 crunchy to play, but it doesn't take 100 years. 1351 01:17:39,920 --> 01:17:45,920 It's like 45 minutes and done. John messaged me that he enjoyed 1352 01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:50,480 it, but he worked out and he sent me the maximum points you 1353 01:17:50,480 --> 01:17:52,440 could score each turn, blah, blah, blah, blah blah, blah, 1354 01:17:52,440 --> 01:17:55,640 blah, blah, blah. And he scienced out every step 1355 01:17:55,640 --> 01:17:57,880 of how many points he could get. And he was like, well, I I just 1356 01:17:57,920 --> 01:18:01,120 didn't really enjoy it because this is exactly what what you 1357 01:18:01,120 --> 01:18:03,600 can possibly do. This is this is exactly it. 1358 01:18:04,040 --> 01:18:05,720 It was nice of thinking about the making. 1359 01:18:05,760 --> 01:18:07,360 The cheese. No, he was like he was looking 1360 01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:09,560 at winning the he was looking at the exact points. 1361 01:18:10,480 --> 01:18:11,280 Of how to do. Trying to be. 1362 01:18:11,680 --> 01:18:13,720 The best so he. He scienced. 1363 01:18:13,720 --> 01:18:18,360 It out and he and because of that he was like which he 1364 01:18:18,360 --> 01:18:22,880 because he scienced it out, he decided to like he kind of 1365 01:18:22,880 --> 01:18:25,120 spoiled the game like he spoiled it Christmas for himself. 1366 01:18:25,120 --> 01:18:26,360 But I think that is. What? 1367 01:18:26,440 --> 01:18:29,280 No, but that is essentially why you don't like 7 Wonders Draw, 1368 01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:31,320 because you found a strategy that would work. 1369 01:18:31,480 --> 01:18:33,400 Because it's rubbish, no. You found a. 1370 01:18:33,400 --> 01:18:36,880 Strategy that would work every time and then it was boring to 1371 01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:39,680 you see I. Enjoyed it? 1372 01:18:39,880 --> 01:18:43,920 Because I was still trying to find the emergent strategies or 1373 01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:46,680 like, you know, what was going on in the game to win. 1374 01:18:47,160 --> 01:18:48,920 And I think that's the difference, isn't it? 1375 01:18:48,920 --> 01:18:54,240 I think it that slowed. Down my love of yeah so I think 1376 01:18:54,240 --> 01:18:54,960 after. US is a. 1377 01:18:54,960 --> 01:18:56,960 Perfect, perfect example of that. 1378 01:18:57,440 --> 01:19:00,320 I love the theme of After us. I love Planet of the Apes, I 1379 01:19:00,320 --> 01:19:04,200 love monkeys and I love apes and I love planets. 1380 01:19:04,240 --> 01:19:09,240 Anyway, I love Vincent de Tre artwork, so that ticks all the 1381 01:19:09,240 --> 01:19:13,240 boxes immediately. And thematically, I get it. 1382 01:19:13,480 --> 01:19:15,840 I've got this little tribe of monkeys and we need to get the 1383 01:19:15,840 --> 01:19:18,040 big gorillas in to help, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. 1384 01:19:18,040 --> 01:19:22,560 But now I've found a strategy. I found a strategy to. 1385 01:19:22,560 --> 01:19:26,240 That game that my tribe of monkeys is going out to do the 1386 01:19:26,240 --> 01:19:28,040 same thing every single time I play it. 1387 01:19:28,360 --> 01:19:29,720 But if you taught it, you wouldn't. 1388 01:19:29,720 --> 01:19:32,000 Teach it like that, would you? No. 1389 01:19:32,720 --> 01:19:38,080 No, because you would. Still want to win the truth? 1390 01:19:38,080 --> 01:19:40,040 Comes out. No, I would. 1391 01:19:40,480 --> 01:19:41,880 Because that would ruin it for somebody. 1392 01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:43,960 No, you have to. You have to let them. 1393 01:19:43,960 --> 01:19:46,080 Find those strategies. But the problem there is it's 1394 01:19:46,080 --> 01:19:49,960 like I found a strategy that wins me the game 95% of the 1395 01:19:49,960 --> 01:19:53,240 time. 80% of the time, maybe, but. 1396 01:19:54,200 --> 01:19:57,080 Right. I think that goes back to Nick 1397 01:19:57,080 --> 01:19:58,880 Bentley. He was our guest when we talked 1398 01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:01,200 about immersion qualities. That's exactly what he's talking 1399 01:20:01,200 --> 01:20:03,720 about, is that so many of our hobbyists are like, oh, well, I 1400 01:20:03,720 --> 01:20:06,560 found the strategy, so I'm done. It's like, no. 1401 01:20:07,160 --> 01:20:10,720 No, you haven't. You found one, but there's 1402 01:20:10,720 --> 01:20:13,480 better. And the more you play the game, 1403 01:20:13,480 --> 01:20:17,240 the more you realize the different strategies, and it 1404 01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:20,800 makes a game fresh each time you play it. 1405 01:20:22,320 --> 01:20:25,080 But yeah, I get that too. There are, but then there's some 1406 01:20:25,080 --> 01:20:29,880 games that are designed. It's a flaw in the game that has 1407 01:20:30,240 --> 01:20:34,360 a mathematical minimum and maximum, right? 1408 01:20:35,280 --> 01:20:38,640 And it's possible. That John figured it out for 1409 01:20:38,640 --> 01:20:41,080 fromage, I'm still going to like it. 1410 01:20:41,320 --> 01:20:44,280 Yeah, I've never been up there. Meanwhile, meanwhile, I'm. 1411 01:20:44,280 --> 01:20:48,520 Writing in my book. Note to self, don't play fromage 1412 01:20:49,240 --> 01:20:50,880 with try. Win. 1413 01:20:50,880 --> 01:20:53,880 Games. I love you, John. 1414 01:20:53,880 --> 01:20:55,840 I do. I know you're going to listen 1415 01:20:55,960 --> 01:21:02,960 and but we're not playing fromage well, I definitely. 1416 01:21:02,960 --> 01:21:04,880 Want to play it with more players so maybe we should like 1417 01:21:04,920 --> 01:21:10,320 BGA him and make him play from online so I have. 1418 01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:12,640 A quick question, quick story about Fromage. 1419 01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:16,480 I played with a good friend of ours here in the US, Michiana 1420 01:21:16,480 --> 01:21:19,320 Board Gamery. She's like, hey, I just got a a 1421 01:21:19,320 --> 01:21:22,000 physical copy of Fromage. I want to play it. 1422 01:21:22,240 --> 01:21:23,520 Are you interested? Cool. 1423 01:21:23,720 --> 01:21:27,040 So I played it on BGA. I didn't know what I was doing. 1424 01:21:27,880 --> 01:21:31,200 I was like why is the board spinning? 1425 01:21:32,160 --> 01:21:33,240 What? I'm just. 1426 01:21:33,240 --> 01:21:38,440 Clicking on stuff BGA for me. Here's about learning and 1427 01:21:38,440 --> 01:21:44,120 teaching. BGA for me is not a good tool to 1428 01:21:44,120 --> 01:21:46,960 learn a game. No, I had this on my list. 1429 01:21:47,080 --> 01:21:50,720 I was like, oh, OK, great. So, so many. 1430 01:21:50,720 --> 01:21:54,840 Times we've been really excited about a game and it's usually 1431 01:21:54,840 --> 01:21:58,040 with games with Beanie in my shelf life most of the time. 1432 01:21:58,400 --> 01:22:01,280 And we will be like, oh, you must play this game. 1433 01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:05,120 One one of the examples is lost for in Savannah. 1434 01:22:05,160 --> 01:22:07,320 We love that game and it is on BGA. 1435 01:22:09,000 --> 01:22:13,800 We like really put Susie off because we played that on BGA 1436 01:22:13,800 --> 01:22:17,360 and it was way too complicated. Like and also we taught them 1437 01:22:17,360 --> 01:22:22,280 Survivor escape Atlantis and it was in beta and it was so slow 1438 01:22:22,280 --> 01:22:24,080 to set up and then take your turns. 1439 01:22:24,080 --> 01:22:28,560 Like it really put them off. I think it's just it's boring on 1440 01:22:28,600 --> 01:22:29,480 online. It's just. 1441 01:22:29,480 --> 01:22:33,040 There's nothing you can. It's just I definitely think 1442 01:22:33,040 --> 01:22:36,600 that. Teaching games on BDA is has a. 1443 01:22:36,760 --> 01:22:40,240 Lot of. Pitfalls like it's, it's not 1444 01:22:40,240 --> 01:22:45,040 ideal for teaching a newbie a game and letting them experience 1445 01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:47,320 it. You know, I think I don't. 1446 01:22:47,320 --> 01:22:49,840 I really. Don't think that like BGA is not 1447 01:22:49,840 --> 01:22:52,960 a try before you buy service. But what is a try before you buy 1448 01:22:53,120 --> 01:22:58,200 service is rent shuffle and roll and you can use code GI TG50. 1449 01:22:59,440 --> 01:23:00,840 Off your. First month. 1450 01:23:02,640 --> 01:23:08,800 That's GI. TG50 Wow, 50% off your first 1451 01:23:08,800 --> 01:23:12,560 month at rent, shuffle and roll. Yeah, right. 1452 01:23:12,600 --> 01:23:15,480 So. PJ your board game menu? 1453 01:23:15,920 --> 01:23:18,200 Yep. Three games. 1454 01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:23,240 That you would bring out and teach to, you know, newbies or 1455 01:23:23,240 --> 01:23:25,440 people who haven't played those games before. 1456 01:23:25,440 --> 01:23:31,040 Watch watch picking so. For the appetizer, the appetizer 1457 01:23:31,400 --> 01:23:35,160 is pot Squara. What's that? 1458 01:23:35,400 --> 01:23:39,560 Yeah, Pat. Squara So it's a game that I 1459 01:23:39,560 --> 01:23:41,960 discovered at Gencon. It's a it's a card game. 1460 01:23:42,920 --> 01:23:48,320 It's a small box game where the theme helps me to teach it you. 1461 01:23:48,320 --> 01:23:52,440 Are. In Mexico, preparing for the Day 1462 01:23:52,440 --> 01:23:56,880 of the Dead Dios de Los Muertos. And. 1463 01:23:56,920 --> 01:23:59,920 So you're preparing your altar. So one of the things in their 1464 01:23:59,920 --> 01:24:04,400 culture is you build, you build an altar in your home and you 1465 01:24:04,400 --> 01:24:08,320 place pictures of your deceased family members and you bake 1466 01:24:08,320 --> 01:24:14,600 breads and fruits and other little paper mache or ceramic 1467 01:24:14,600 --> 01:24:18,640 skulls and things that you would put on this altar for that day. 1468 01:24:18,920 --> 01:24:23,480 A way to keep their memory alive and to help them pass into the 1469 01:24:23,480 --> 01:24:26,760 afterlife, right? And you do that by you have a 1470 01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:29,840 little meeple and you move around the market and you're 1471 01:24:30,080 --> 01:24:31,920 buying cards. Buying. 1472 01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:35,120 You're really just trading out cards because you have a cards 1473 01:24:35,120 --> 01:24:38,440 in your hand and you build like a little, your altar is like a 1474 01:24:38,440 --> 01:24:42,520 pyramid because like 4 cards, three cards on top of that and 1475 01:24:42,520 --> 01:24:50,880 two cards for a total of 7610. What is that 9, four and three? 1476 01:24:50,880 --> 01:24:54,760 7 + 2 is yeah, OK, 9 cards. And so you're building up the 1477 01:24:54,760 --> 01:24:59,000 solely and and you score points based on the number of certain 1478 01:24:59,000 --> 01:25:01,800 icons on the 1st row, the second row in the top row. 1479 01:25:02,320 --> 01:25:07,280 And when you explain that, it's like you're exploring this 1480 01:25:07,600 --> 01:25:10,840 significant cultural moment, right? 1481 01:25:11,320 --> 01:25:14,240 And it's a simple card game that really doesn't take long. 1482 01:25:14,440 --> 01:25:16,920 But I'm able to explain why you're doing this. 1483 01:25:17,200 --> 01:25:19,720 And that's the appetizer. That would be the first game I 1484 01:25:19,720 --> 01:25:21,440 bring out. It's amazing. 1485 01:25:21,640 --> 01:25:23,320 You got to check out. It's also beautiful. 1486 01:25:23,480 --> 01:25:29,960 It's very colorful, much like the altars in Dia de Los 1487 01:25:29,960 --> 01:25:33,160 Muertos. So I apologize to our Spanish 1488 01:25:33,160 --> 01:25:36,520 speaking listeners who are offended by my accent. 1489 01:25:39,640 --> 01:25:42,080 So what's your main course? I think you know what my. 1490 01:25:42,080 --> 01:25:47,400 Main course is and that's going to be steam up. 1491 01:25:48,920 --> 01:25:50,360 You thought you. Thought I was. 1492 01:25:50,360 --> 01:25:51,720 Going to say obsession, didn't you? 1493 01:25:52,240 --> 01:25:54,160 But we talked about it and it was going to be. 1494 01:25:54,160 --> 01:26:00,160 But Steam up's another good one. So steam up by by hopping out of 1495 01:26:00,160 --> 01:26:04,080 games, right? You're you're eating dim sum out 1496 01:26:04,080 --> 01:26:07,320 of bamboo steam buns. And part of that is it's a 1497 01:26:07,320 --> 01:26:10,520 shared experience. You're rotating the table to be 1498 01:26:10,520 --> 01:26:15,600 that little conveyor belt of the bamboo steam buns on top of each 1499 01:26:15,600 --> 01:26:17,640 other. And inside are different types 1500 01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:22,680 of dim sum items. It's a little asymmetrical 1501 01:26:22,680 --> 01:26:24,760 because you have a player board and you're going to put them on 1502 01:26:24,760 --> 01:26:25,960 there. You're trying to collect them. 1503 01:26:26,160 --> 01:26:28,000 So it's a little bit of set collection. 1504 01:26:28,200 --> 01:26:32,520 So it's a great way to explain a mechanic set collection to a new 1505 01:26:32,640 --> 01:26:35,200 new player. But that theme is relevant. 1506 01:26:35,240 --> 01:26:39,120 You're at a restaurant eating dim sum and your particular 1507 01:26:39,120 --> 01:26:43,760 character enjoys this item over another or. 1508 01:26:44,120 --> 01:26:47,120 I think my favorite one is the grandpa. 1509 01:26:47,120 --> 01:26:50,120 I think he's a bull, but he's like, he's like the grandfather 1510 01:26:50,440 --> 01:26:55,160 and in the game you can only take from the quadrant in front 1511 01:26:55,160 --> 01:26:56,720 of you. He can take from anywhere 1512 01:26:56,720 --> 01:26:59,760 because he's granddad. So he reach across the table and 1513 01:27:00,280 --> 01:27:01,960 get what he wants to. Eat right. 1514 01:27:02,640 --> 01:27:05,480 And that theme is really tied into the mechanics of the game, 1515 01:27:05,720 --> 01:27:09,480 and so it helps me to teach it's a little bit bigger of a game. 1516 01:27:09,720 --> 01:27:13,280 The first player marker is a soft, squishy bow. 1517 01:27:13,280 --> 01:27:17,680 Bung Epic guys, Epic that is Steam up. 1518 01:27:17,880 --> 01:27:22,560 So Steam up is my entree and then what you're finishing? 1519 01:27:22,560 --> 01:27:28,040 The night with so I'm going. To finish the night with first 1520 01:27:28,160 --> 01:27:31,640 in flight. Oh yeah. 1521 01:27:32,160 --> 01:27:33,840 This. Game is, is really good. 1522 01:27:34,240 --> 01:27:41,680 You are one of the first designers of aircraft in Kitty 1523 01:27:41,680 --> 01:27:46,720 Hawk, NC here in the US And so you're moving around the board. 1524 01:27:46,720 --> 01:27:49,840 And So what you're doing, you're you, you have the frame of an 1525 01:27:49,840 --> 01:27:54,920 aircraft already built. You go to take actions if you 1526 01:27:54,920 --> 01:27:58,360 can, because if a worker's there, obviously this is a great 1527 01:27:58,360 --> 01:28:02,120 way to explain worker placement to a new member of the hobby as 1528 01:28:02,120 --> 01:28:04,080 well. But that theme is still tied 1529 01:28:04,080 --> 01:28:09,320 into it. You need upgrades to make your 1530 01:28:09,320 --> 01:28:12,840 aircraft better. You need patrons who are going 1531 01:28:12,840 --> 01:28:15,200 to fund you so you can make a better aircraft. 1532 01:28:15,480 --> 01:28:18,800 You also need practice so you can learn stunts that will 1533 01:28:18,800 --> 01:28:21,680 enhance your flight. And then you land on the flight 1534 01:28:21,680 --> 01:28:26,040 zone and it's push your luck. Flip the cards to see how far 1535 01:28:26,040 --> 01:28:29,880 along you go, right? And if you get a flaw, a major 1536 01:28:29,880 --> 01:28:33,560 flaw, or you crash, you put those in your garage or your 1537 01:28:33,560 --> 01:28:37,280 player mat in front of you. You can repair those later, put 1538 01:28:37,280 --> 01:28:41,560 those cards in the box and pull out a minor flaw, right? 1539 01:28:41,560 --> 01:28:43,680 Because you've learned you've fixed that. 1540 01:28:43,880 --> 01:28:44,720 But it's. Still. 1541 01:28:44,720 --> 01:28:48,200 Problematic, right? It's just it's a beautiful game 1542 01:28:48,200 --> 01:28:52,400 so you can teach the mechanics of push your luck and minor 1543 01:28:52,400 --> 01:28:56,840 worker placement, but the theme is so tied in and you're moving 1544 01:28:56,840 --> 01:29:00,120 across the board to indicate your flight and like, oh, look, 1545 01:29:00,120 --> 01:29:01,640 I went further than you this round. 1546 01:29:01,800 --> 01:29:05,040 You got to get to 40 to win the game, right? 1547 01:29:05,040 --> 01:29:09,360 It's just, yeah, that's so that's my menu of board games 1548 01:29:09,640 --> 01:29:15,320 where themes help me to teach to the people at the table who have 1549 01:29:15,320 --> 01:29:17,440 never been, who've never played this games before. 1550 01:29:18,400 --> 01:29:20,680 Did you ever? Yeah, sure. 1551 01:29:21,160 --> 01:29:23,200 Fine, I haven't. Asked. 1552 01:29:24,000 --> 01:29:25,040 Me. Because I haven't. 1553 01:29:25,160 --> 01:29:27,560 Oh well, you've got. Well, you're you're up. 1554 01:29:27,600 --> 01:29:31,640 Last, so you better get ready. I think. 1555 01:29:31,720 --> 01:29:36,760 My starter for teaching using theme would actually be Ouch. 1556 01:29:37,440 --> 01:29:40,520 We mentioned it before, it's just you're trying to pick 1557 01:29:40,520 --> 01:29:43,440 flowers off of a cactus and you don't want to get stung. 1558 01:29:43,680 --> 01:29:46,080 That's the theme. And it's literally you're trying 1559 01:29:46,080 --> 01:29:49,360 to pick from the side of the card, the side of the cactus, 1560 01:29:49,680 --> 01:29:51,880 and if you get caught, you get stung. 1561 01:29:52,120 --> 01:29:55,200 It's a really easy way to explain a game. 1562 01:29:56,600 --> 01:29:58,640 And then obviously you can explain scoring, whatever, but 1563 01:29:58,640 --> 01:30:02,160 that's just whatever. But that's theme of a nice light 1564 01:30:02,160 --> 01:30:05,560 starter game. My main course. 1565 01:30:07,360 --> 01:30:12,800 Here we go. It's going to be Everdel because 1566 01:30:13,680 --> 01:30:16,720 thematically there's a cat there. 1567 01:30:16,720 --> 01:30:19,120 We go. Ignore that podcast listeners. 1568 01:30:19,320 --> 01:30:23,360 The cat decided to try and take out the laptop anyway, Everdel 1569 01:30:23,800 --> 01:30:26,200 and I don't edit, so that's in the podcast anyway. 1570 01:30:26,480 --> 01:30:33,120 Sorry, Gary. So Everdale is a worker 1571 01:30:33,120 --> 01:30:37,320 placement game, but not only just like thematically that you 1572 01:30:37,320 --> 01:30:40,240 can explain your these critters, you're getting these resources 1573 01:30:40,240 --> 01:30:44,720 to build houses, build things. You're hiring people to work in 1574 01:30:44,720 --> 01:30:48,000 your hospitals and your post offices that you've just built 1575 01:30:48,000 --> 01:30:49,160 and stuff that you've just built. 1576 01:30:50,440 --> 01:30:53,600 You're also completely. Immersed because. 1577 01:30:53,920 --> 01:30:57,400 It's a freaking great big tree on the board and a huge amount 1578 01:30:57,400 --> 01:31:02,000 of beautiful components. And so the theme comes alive 1579 01:31:02,000 --> 01:31:05,960 because of the production. And also it's just really easy 1580 01:31:05,960 --> 01:31:10,960 to explain through theme theme what you're doing and why you're 1581 01:31:10,960 --> 01:31:13,640 doing it. And it just, it just makes 1582 01:31:13,800 --> 01:31:16,680 sense. And the events are part of 1583 01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:18,760 scoring. Having those events, you can be 1584 01:31:18,760 --> 01:31:20,920 like, Oh yeah, because you've managed to get these people so 1585 01:31:20,920 --> 01:31:23,640 you can have this party, you can do this and that, so on and so 1586 01:31:23,640 --> 01:31:26,200 forth. So Everdale is my main course 1587 01:31:26,200 --> 01:31:33,080 and my final choice. The go home show, the pudding 1588 01:31:33,080 --> 01:31:37,080 portion, the dessert, the. Whatever they call it. 1589 01:31:37,280 --> 01:31:41,440 Cheese board is going to be wandering towers. 1590 01:31:42,160 --> 01:31:43,480 Oh, that's a good. Choice. 1591 01:31:43,680 --> 01:31:46,280 So, wandering towers. Essentially, there are two ways 1592 01:31:46,280 --> 01:31:50,640 to kind of explain the theme. I also like I like the Harry 1593 01:31:50,640 --> 01:31:53,960 Potter esque. You're racing to get to class 1594 01:31:53,960 --> 01:31:56,640 and the stairs are moving, whereas they're not stairs in 1595 01:31:56,640 --> 01:31:58,160 this game. Their towers are moving. 1596 01:31:59,360 --> 01:32:02,920 And I like. To explain how to fill up your 1597 01:32:02,920 --> 01:32:06,320 potions, you have to crush your other Wizards and use their 1598 01:32:06,320 --> 01:32:10,920 blood to fill up the potions to win the game by getting everyone 1599 01:32:10,920 --> 01:32:15,680 to class with the blood of their other Wizards. 1600 01:32:15,840 --> 01:32:20,120 I'm not sure that's bang on theme, however. 1601 01:32:21,880 --> 01:32:25,600 I'm I'm mostly there. And that's my yeah, that would 1602 01:32:25,600 --> 01:32:28,200 be my menu. Three games that I enjoy. 1603 01:32:32,040 --> 01:32:34,600 Things are happening on the on. The things are happening on the 1604 01:32:34,640 --> 01:32:37,160 pod. Do you have yours? 1605 01:32:37,560 --> 01:32:39,600 No, I only thought of two. OK, go on then. 1606 01:32:40,200 --> 01:32:42,480 So we're not going to get a complete meal out of Becky. 1607 01:32:43,520 --> 01:32:44,480 We're either going to miss out on. 1608 01:32:44,480 --> 01:32:46,360 PUD we're we're going to play the. 1609 01:32:46,600 --> 01:32:49,960 The main course multiple times. Oh, I know, I know. 1610 01:32:50,520 --> 01:32:54,720 You know I know because, PJ, you had a go, didn't you? 1611 01:32:55,520 --> 01:33:00,040 And then I had my turn. And then, funnily enough, Becky. 1612 01:33:00,080 --> 01:33:01,800 Can't take. Turns and that's. 1613 01:33:02,680 --> 01:33:03,560 How it? Should end. 1614 01:33:05,600 --> 01:33:08,240 That was a great ending for the. Episode, but no Give me your 1615 01:33:08,240 --> 01:33:11,240 menu. Quote Express. 1616 01:33:11,680 --> 01:33:14,000 Which I think is a really easy teach. 1617 01:33:14,680 --> 01:33:19,600 The theme comes through, you're on the train trying to steal all 1618 01:33:19,600 --> 01:33:27,400 the money and the loots and avoid the And I think that's 1619 01:33:28,120 --> 01:33:29,880 that. That was the first game where I 1620 01:33:29,880 --> 01:33:32,440 thought, oh, board games do something different. 1621 01:33:32,440 --> 01:33:38,600 And, and I like to get that across to new people and there's 1622 01:33:38,680 --> 01:33:40,600 no war. Yeah, no. 1623 01:33:40,600 --> 01:33:41,920 Exactly. There's no board that's. 1624 01:33:41,920 --> 01:33:44,360 Great. And then I think I would play. 1625 01:33:44,360 --> 01:33:48,320 Two games of Distilled 2. Games because. 1626 01:33:48,400 --> 01:33:50,640 I always play. Distilled and then really want 1627 01:33:50,640 --> 01:33:54,120 to play another game of distilled because I, I realized, 1628 01:33:54,160 --> 01:33:56,400 Oh yeah, that's what I was supposed to be doing all along. 1629 01:33:56,920 --> 01:34:01,320 Can we just redo? So that's what we're doing. 1630 01:34:02,160 --> 01:34:03,560 Excellent. So. 1631 01:34:03,560 --> 01:34:09,840 If Patterson Games is listening both these podcasts, Episode 40 1632 01:34:10,240 --> 01:34:12,680 getting the games on air in episode one O 7 and Meeple and 1633 01:34:12,680 --> 01:34:14,600 meeple. We're looking for sponsorship 1634 01:34:14,800 --> 01:34:17,640 and we'll happily sponsor you and talk about Distilled all the 1635 01:34:17,640 --> 01:34:21,920 time. You know so. 1636 01:34:21,920 --> 01:34:24,120 I want to say one of the interesting things you you tap, 1637 01:34:24,160 --> 01:34:26,520 you tapped in it just now. So distilled is such a good 1638 01:34:26,520 --> 01:34:27,600 game. You want to play it again. 1639 01:34:28,400 --> 01:34:32,000 So we played men Nefer twice a geek way mini this weekend and 1640 01:34:32,000 --> 01:34:33,960 of course we but we we won the copy. 1641 01:34:33,960 --> 01:34:38,960 So we're driving home yesterday in the car and I'm. 1642 01:34:38,960 --> 01:34:42,840 Thinking about. I'm thinking about actions I 1643 01:34:42,840 --> 01:34:46,440 want to take the next time we play, right? 1644 01:34:48,000 --> 01:34:51,040 So yeah. Also about theme being so 1645 01:34:51,440 --> 01:34:54,600 immersive. So one of the things I wanted to 1646 01:34:54,600 --> 01:34:57,800 do, and we have not done it yet, we're probably going to need 1647 01:34:57,800 --> 01:35:00,640 more than two players. We learned that today because 1648 01:35:00,640 --> 01:35:04,280 this morning we played men Never again in preparation for this 1649 01:35:04,640 --> 01:35:07,280 podcast. I wanted to get you have the 1650 01:35:07,280 --> 01:35:11,240 Great Pyramid and then you have the three minor pyramids. 1651 01:35:11,640 --> 01:35:15,280 We did not finish them all. That's hard work. 1652 01:35:15,480 --> 01:35:19,640 And you run out of those build actions because you only get to 1653 01:35:19,640 --> 01:35:24,120 them as you move across the you move your limestone piece along 1654 01:35:24,120 --> 01:35:27,120 the track. And so you need help. 1655 01:35:27,640 --> 01:35:30,120 I can't build the Great Pyramid by myself. 1656 01:35:30,120 --> 01:35:31,640 There's not enough build actions. 1657 01:35:32,240 --> 01:35:34,440 So y'all are going to have to come over and play so we can 1658 01:35:34,440 --> 01:35:35,800 build these pyramids, I'm telling you. 1659 01:35:37,720 --> 01:35:42,640 And you can get. Us over to PJ in sunny America 1660 01:35:42,640 --> 01:35:48,280 just by you know, going to rent shovel and roll and. 1661 01:35:49,240 --> 01:35:57,760 Then. Using Gitg 50, Yeah, 50% off 1662 01:35:57,840 --> 01:35:58,800 and. And. 1663 01:35:58,840 --> 01:36:01,760 We get a little kickback, so we're going to, we can leave the 1664 01:36:01,760 --> 01:36:04,120 lights on for a little bit longer, pay the electricity 1665 01:36:04,120 --> 01:36:05,480 bills. We're never going to be. 1666 01:36:05,800 --> 01:36:08,600 We can go see PJ. We can go see PJ. 1667 01:36:10,240 --> 01:36:12,320 So yeah, where? Can they find us? 1668 01:36:12,320 --> 01:36:16,240 Where can they find you? PJ, thank you for asking. 1669 01:36:16,240 --> 01:36:19,960 Guys, please don't forget to like and subscribe to our 1670 01:36:19,960 --> 01:36:25,000 channel on YouTube. We just hit 40 subscribers over 1671 01:36:25,000 --> 01:36:29,160 the weekend, so that's great. So make sure you like and 1672 01:36:29,160 --> 01:36:31,800 subscribe, subscribe. You can listen to us on Spotify 1673 01:36:32,080 --> 01:36:35,360 and all and again on YouTube. We just launched that for 1674 01:36:35,360 --> 01:36:39,040 episode 100. You can find us at Meeple to 1675 01:36:39,040 --> 01:36:44,120 Meeple the number 2, not TO Meeple 2 Meeple on Instagram. 1676 01:36:44,360 --> 01:36:47,120 I'm the Cajun gamer on Instagram. 1677 01:36:47,480 --> 01:36:53,280 My cohost Gareth is board game Meeple on Instagram as well, and 1678 01:36:53,280 --> 01:36:56,520 he's really sorry he couldn't be here today, but this was a fun 1679 01:36:56,520 --> 01:37:00,360 conversation. So thank you so much And and 1680 01:37:00,360 --> 01:37:02,520 where can we find you, Craig and Becky? 1681 01:37:03,280 --> 01:37:07,160 Well I am get. Into that's TO not the number 2 1682 01:37:07,280 --> 01:37:13,120 get into games on Instagram and Becky is Mrs. under score get 1683 01:37:13,120 --> 01:37:15,160 into games. I'll even speak for myself now. 1684 01:37:18,400 --> 01:37:20,240 Thank you for tuning into. My podcast. 1685 01:37:22,040 --> 01:37:23,360 You're welcome. Where can we? 1686 01:37:23,360 --> 01:37:24,040 Find you. I don't. 1687 01:37:24,880 --> 01:37:28,120 Know even know what my. Tagline is we can find Becky. 1688 01:37:28,160 --> 01:37:31,280 Sproul searching at work most of the time. 1689 01:37:31,600 --> 01:37:34,600 We can find Becky online. At Shirts and Merch's Etsy 1690 01:37:34,600 --> 01:37:36,560 store. Looking for fantastic shirts at 1691 01:37:36,560 --> 01:37:38,920 games night and you too could look fantastic. 1692 01:37:40,200 --> 01:37:43,200 Please leave us our five star rating, five star review on your 1693 01:37:43,200 --> 01:37:45,680 pod capture of choice, whether that's on the Meatball to 1694 01:37:45,680 --> 01:37:50,760 Meatball podcast or on Get Into Games on Air. 1695 01:37:50,760 --> 01:37:53,720 Almost forgot what our podcast was called. 1696 01:37:53,880 --> 01:37:56,960 We are in episode 107. Maple to Maple are in episode 1697 01:37:56,960 --> 01:38:00,920 40. Scratch. 1698 01:38:00,960 --> 01:38:07,360 That rewind, try again. Thank you so much for listening 1699 01:38:07,440 --> 01:38:10,400 and please make sure you are following PJ and Gareth and 1700 01:38:10,400 --> 01:38:14,600 meeple to meeple on all of those social networks and you're. 1701 01:38:15,240 --> 01:38:19,440 Listening to Craig and Becky at Get Into Games on air. 1702 01:38:19,800 --> 01:38:23,040 Not to be confused with Get Into Games or misses. 1703 01:38:23,080 --> 01:38:28,160 Get Into Games, yes. I'm confused with that. 1704 01:38:28,240 --> 01:38:30,080 I don't mind. But yes, thank you so much. 1705 01:38:30,560 --> 01:38:34,000 We've uploaded every episode onto YouTube as well, so every 1706 01:38:34,000 --> 01:38:37,000 episode is available from 1:00 to 40. 1707 01:38:37,040 --> 01:38:39,800 This will be there once I make it public. 1708 01:38:40,040 --> 01:38:42,840 Some reason it will come part private and I don't understand 1709 01:38:43,200 --> 01:38:45,800 computers. It's people don't need to know 1710 01:38:45,800 --> 01:38:47,000 science. They do. 1711 01:38:47,000 --> 01:38:49,200 They do. Becky, this is important 1712 01:38:49,200 --> 01:38:51,840 information that our listeners are dying for. 1713 01:38:51,840 --> 01:38:54,760 They need the information. They love this information. 1714 01:38:55,160 --> 01:38:57,560 This is the reason I'm just feeling sorry for Gareth. 1715 01:38:57,560 --> 01:38:59,320 Listening to this one. No, he. 1716 01:38:59,640 --> 01:39:05,160 He'll know that it's he'll know at hands with my editing skills. 1717 01:39:05,240 --> 01:39:07,360 That's right. Never again they'll. 1718 01:39:07,560 --> 01:39:10,880 Do it again. Possibly the longest. 1719 01:39:10,880 --> 01:39:12,760 Episode in Maple to Maple history. 1720 01:39:13,360 --> 01:39:16,480 Well, Gareth. 'S used to that right I mean his 1721 01:39:16,720 --> 01:39:19,440 his Maple Monday longest one on record was with me. 1722 01:39:19,960 --> 01:39:24,160 This is what happens when meeples meet meeples and get 1723 01:39:24,160 --> 01:39:29,120 into games on air. This is what happens. 1724 01:39:29,720 --> 01:39:33,440 See get into. Games on air connecting podcasts 1725 01:39:33,440 --> 01:39:42,800 from both sides of the Atlantic. Thanks so much and remember get 1726 01:39:42,840 --> 01:39:49,560 into. PJ Why am I? 1727 01:39:49,560 --> 01:39:54,120 Getting into PJ, I'm not. Going to. 1728 01:39:54,880 --> 01:39:56,480 Get in. PJ. 1729 01:39:56,600 --> 01:39:58,680 Well. So that was. 1730 01:39:59,240 --> 01:40:00,680 After the last. Episode Virus. 1731 01:40:00,680 --> 01:40:02,080 That's a different website. It's a. 1732 01:40:02,200 --> 01:40:04,680 My box line I. Don't want to say anything now. 1733 01:40:07,200 --> 01:40:11,120 Yeah. And into This is what happens 1734 01:40:11,120 --> 01:40:14,360 when Unite players and podcasters around the world. 1735 01:40:14,920 --> 01:40:17,320 Yeah, when are. We getting that battleship so we 1736 01:40:17,360 --> 01:40:20,080 can meet in the middle of the Atlantic and we can play board 1737 01:40:20,080 --> 01:40:23,920 games Well, you know if. Meeble to Meeble could find some 1738 01:40:23,920 --> 01:40:29,920 really powerful sponsors like rent Shuffle and Roll and shirts 1739 01:40:29,920 --> 01:40:33,520 and merch and maybe even paverson games. 1740 01:40:33,680 --> 01:40:38,160 We can afford that vessel where we can game in the Atlantic. 1741 01:40:38,200 --> 01:40:41,200 Yeah, we have a patron. I haven't done anything with it, 1742 01:40:41,200 --> 01:40:42,840 but we have a patron account set up. 1743 01:40:43,600 --> 01:40:45,280 I want me and. PJ to be able to play. 1744 01:40:45,280 --> 01:40:47,480 Games in the Atlantic and we can live to do it. 1745 01:40:48,040 --> 01:40:50,200 That's right, A. Couple of million. 1746 01:40:52,160 --> 01:40:55,120 On Patron. Why are you doing the cut and 1747 01:40:55,120 --> 01:40:56,040 throat? Symbol. 1748 01:40:56,200 --> 01:40:57,240 It's really. Rude. 1749 01:40:57,240 --> 01:40:58,840 That's why you want me to wrap. Up the. 1750 01:40:58,840 --> 01:41:01,320 Podcast or something, we're going to wrap it up. 1751 01:41:01,320 --> 01:41:02,120 We're going to. Wrap it up. 1752 01:41:02,120 --> 01:41:05,760 Just wrap it up if you have got to this part. 1753 01:41:05,880 --> 01:41:10,680 Of the podcast you need to leave the comment meatball to games on 1754 01:41:10,680 --> 01:41:16,040 air in our comments and we love you people who get to the very 1755 01:41:16,040 --> 01:41:20,400 end of this podcast we do thank you so much for listening and 1756 01:41:20,400 --> 01:41:23,520 remember too we're going to do it properly now get into. 1757 01:41:25,640 --> 01:41:29,040 Meatball to meatball. What I. 1758 01:41:29,840 --> 01:41:31,240 Don't know. Yeah, it does. 1759 01:41:31,640 --> 01:41:32,480 It doesn't. Work. 1760 01:41:32,720 --> 01:41:35,560 It doesn't work when we're all together, everything, nothing, 1761 01:41:35,880 --> 01:41:37,880 you know, but. 3 is the perfect number, right? 1762 01:41:38,280 --> 01:41:39,720 3 is the perfect. Number. 1763 01:41:40,720 --> 01:41:42,880 It's perfect. Cool. 1764 01:41:42,880 --> 01:41:44,040 That's right. Thanks. 1765 01:41:44,040 --> 01:41:47,600 For listening, Yeah, everyone, everyone's doing the cutthroat 1766 01:41:47,600 --> 01:41:49,160 thing to me, so I better press stop now, all right? 1767 01:41:49,280 --> 01:41:51,560 So sorry, lads. Have fun. 1768 01:41:53,400 --> 01:41:56,480 Thanks everyone for listening. Please subscribe and as always, 1769 01:41:56,480 --> 01:42:00,440 we'd love to hear your thoughts and ideas, so make sure to leave 1770 01:42:00,440 --> 01:42:04,640 those in the comments and don't forget you can also chat with us 1771 01:42:04,640 --> 01:42:07,320 both on Instagram at Meeple to Meeple.