1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:04,080 If you are curious to dive into the world of influencer marketing, 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,680 especially getting the right influencers in your 3 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:11,120 corner so that they can help you promote your brand and your 4 00:00:11,120 --> 00:00:14,955 business, this episode of the Mindful Marketing podcast is 5 00:00:14,955 --> 00:00:18,474 for you. But before we dive into this fantastic conversation with Sherri 6 00:00:18,474 --> 00:00:21,134 Langburt, first, a word from our sponsor. 7 00:00:21,994 --> 00:00:25,755 Riverside is the all in one podcast recording and editing tool 8 00:00:25,755 --> 00:00:29,460 that I use for this right here show. I use it to edit not 9 00:00:29,460 --> 00:00:33,000 only the audio in the video. It is like chef's kiss, magical, 10 00:00:33,060 --> 00:00:36,440 making the entire process so, so easy. 11 00:00:36,739 --> 00:00:40,040 Plus I love their magic AI 12 00:00:40,180 --> 00:00:43,945 clips. 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I'm excited for this conversation 22 00:01:16,685 --> 00:01:20,340 today because I have been on both side of sides of the aisle as an 23 00:01:20,340 --> 00:01:24,180 influencer and as a marketer, and I'm excited to get into what's 24 00:01:24,180 --> 00:01:28,020 working here now in today in 2025 with influencer marketing. And 25 00:01:28,020 --> 00:01:31,700 with that, Sherri, welcome to the show. Thank you so much, 26 00:01:31,700 --> 00:01:35,494 Andrea. Nice to meet you. Thanks for having me. Yes. I'm really excited for 27 00:01:35,494 --> 00:01:38,634 this conversation. But to give our listeners some context, 28 00:01:39,335 --> 00:01:42,715 tell me, how did you get into the world of influencer marketing? 29 00:01:43,335 --> 00:01:46,634 K. I kinda stumbled upon it. I was working corporate America, 30 00:01:47,335 --> 00:01:51,180 way back when, and, kind of one of the things that I 31 00:01:51,180 --> 00:01:54,939 was working on was ad sales. And our business was 32 00:01:54,939 --> 00:01:58,079 really subscription focused. And as I started to 33 00:01:58,700 --> 00:02:02,140 kind of explore ad sales opportunities, a lot of the 34 00:02:02,140 --> 00:02:05,854 brands were looking to work with influencers. And 35 00:02:05,854 --> 00:02:09,535 so we put that into our fold, and it kinda started to work 36 00:02:09,535 --> 00:02:12,895 really well. And that's when I said, I am gonna go break out on my 37 00:02:12,895 --> 00:02:16,175 own because no one is doing this and no one is focusing on it. And 38 00:02:16,175 --> 00:02:19,780 I'm gonna start an agency that focuses on helping 39 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,700 the brands and the agencies find the right influencers 40 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,760 to do their content promotions. Yeah. I love 41 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:31,600 this. And I feel like people think, you know, influencer marketing is 42 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,305 a new thing, but brands have been using other people to 43 00:02:35,305 --> 00:02:38,985 promote their content and their their products for a while. But for those 44 00:02:38,985 --> 00:02:42,444 people who are listening, how do you how do you define an influencer? 45 00:02:42,584 --> 00:02:46,185 What is an influencer? I mean, look. I think that there's 46 00:02:46,185 --> 00:02:49,840 different ways to define, and I think everyone has their own definition. 47 00:02:49,980 --> 00:02:53,580 Certainly, if you're looking at a TikTok or Instagram or a Pinterest or a YouTube, 48 00:02:53,580 --> 00:02:57,280 it's gonna be very different from the type of influencer that you find on 49 00:02:57,500 --> 00:03:01,260 LinkedIn. And I think that it's also very different if you are 50 00:03:01,260 --> 00:03:04,985 in pharma or finance where there's high like, highly regulated 51 00:03:05,205 --> 00:03:08,265 industries versus beauty or food or fashion. 52 00:03:08,805 --> 00:03:12,325 So but, you know, in the industry, I think, you know, there's 53 00:03:12,325 --> 00:03:16,030 different thresholds. So there's, like, the nanos, the micros, the macros, 54 00:03:16,030 --> 00:03:19,409 the megas, and all the way up to celebrities, and those are different thresholds. 55 00:03:20,269 --> 00:03:23,790 Most people would say a nano is someone who has a 56 00:03:23,790 --> 00:03:27,470 following on any of these given platforms of over 5,000 57 00:03:27,470 --> 00:03:31,175 followers. Some would say it's 2,000. I personally think it should 58 00:03:31,175 --> 00:03:34,935 be 10,000. So anyone upward of that, and 59 00:03:34,935 --> 00:03:37,595 then the tiers start happening as you go higher. 60 00:03:38,295 --> 00:03:41,975 Okay. I wanna get into this because I feel like the world of 61 00:03:41,975 --> 00:03:45,435 influencer marketing has changed a lot. So for context, I used to be 62 00:03:46,110 --> 00:03:49,950 a fashion blogger. I worked I would say, like, if I were gonna 63 00:03:49,950 --> 00:03:53,710 name drop, I worked with Steve Madden, like, in 2012. So 64 00:03:53,710 --> 00:03:57,550 this was, like, this was, like, at the time, it was weird. My 65 00:03:57,550 --> 00:04:00,990 friends were like, what are you doing? How how do you have photos with Steve 66 00:04:00,990 --> 00:04:04,405 Madden? Right? And I'm like, oh, I just have my little blog and my YouTube 67 00:04:04,405 --> 00:04:07,625 channel. I think it's changed so much 68 00:04:08,085 --> 00:04:11,605 over the years. Right? So, you know, if we're taking 69 00:04:11,605 --> 00:04:15,400 2012 to today, like, what are some of the changes at influencer 70 00:04:15,460 --> 00:04:17,880 marketing that have happened over the years? 71 00:04:19,060 --> 00:04:22,020 Interesting. It's, like, when you start to think about what's going on right now with 72 00:04:22,020 --> 00:04:25,700 TikTok. Right? I think back then, because I've been doing it 73 00:04:25,700 --> 00:04:29,514 even longer than two twelve 2012, blogs were still a 74 00:04:29,514 --> 00:04:33,355 thing. And long format content in a blog and the beauty of that 75 00:04:33,355 --> 00:04:36,875 was there was not just the written and the video that you could put in 76 00:04:36,875 --> 00:04:40,680 there, but there was placements for programmatic. So but 77 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,280 you owned your channel. TikTok, like, wasn't a 78 00:04:44,280 --> 00:04:47,960 thing. Pinterest was still kind of a thing. Like, people loved 79 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,800 Pinterest. And so I think, you know and I think that 80 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,400 static was still much more of a focus than 81 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:59,185 video. So there's just so many things that come into play. You could also look 82 00:04:59,185 --> 00:05:02,884 again at the different verticals and industries. You know, people 83 00:05:03,905 --> 00:05:07,745 certain industries have been later to the game. I think we've gotten very niche, 84 00:05:07,745 --> 00:05:11,280 very specific, in terms of, like, 85 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:15,200 before it was like, oh, we need mom bloggers or mom influencers or 86 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,639 mom creators now saying, we need women who live in Chicago who will eat 87 00:05:18,639 --> 00:05:22,240 organic and have, you know, a blue cat and, you 88 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,620 know, three boys who, you know, don't eat meat. 89 00:05:25,840 --> 00:05:29,655 It's so specific now, because there's so many 90 00:05:29,655 --> 00:05:33,415 creators, and I think you have to when we talk about, you know, these buds 91 00:05:33,415 --> 00:05:37,095 where it's like the the content has to be authentic. Well, you 92 00:05:37,095 --> 00:05:40,855 know, if you wanna do a campaign and you're a retailer, but the influencer that 93 00:05:40,855 --> 00:05:44,430 you choose shops at your competitors, that's not authentic. So there's a 94 00:05:44,430 --> 00:05:48,110 lot more that goes into it than just, you know, we need a mom 95 00:05:48,110 --> 00:05:51,789 influencer. Yeah. It has changed so much. And I 96 00:05:51,789 --> 00:05:55,195 think for the better because I think, you know, brands can get, 97 00:05:55,735 --> 00:05:59,335 these influencers that are their their communities are so bought in. Like, 98 00:05:59,335 --> 00:06:02,555 they're so tuned in. It can make or break a a brand. 99 00:06:03,095 --> 00:06:06,315 So when you and your company are kind of, like, looking at these influencers, 100 00:06:06,830 --> 00:06:10,590 how can you tell if they're they actually have influence? Because I've been on 101 00:06:10,590 --> 00:06:14,110 these Internet streets for a while. I know people could buy followers. So how do 102 00:06:14,110 --> 00:06:17,710 you tell if they're, like, actually influential? So you look at the 103 00:06:17,710 --> 00:06:21,405 engagement rates. Right? And you could look at, you know, a like 104 00:06:21,405 --> 00:06:25,005 to me is a vanity metric. So anyone scrolling 105 00:06:25,085 --> 00:06:28,865 I have a a big heart, so whenever I see anyone post I'm liking, 106 00:06:29,325 --> 00:06:32,460 I might not even look at what they're doing. And that's just me as a 107 00:06:32,940 --> 00:06:36,380 human. Right? So I think you look at the comments, and even if 108 00:06:36,380 --> 00:06:40,139 they had, you know, great amount of engagement on the comment side, 109 00:06:40,139 --> 00:06:43,979 are the comments relevant? So if I'm talking about, you 110 00:06:43,979 --> 00:06:47,324 know, a new, you know, protein shake, but everyone's commenting 111 00:06:47,625 --> 00:06:51,305 on my haircut, not relevant. So looking 112 00:06:51,305 --> 00:06:55,064 at the comments, looking at, I think, some metrics that 113 00:06:55,064 --> 00:06:58,525 people don't look into, and you could ask the influencer for this, is previous 114 00:06:58,664 --> 00:07:02,450 content that they shared. Not just the comments, not just the likes, 115 00:07:02,450 --> 00:07:06,290 but the saves, the reshares. Because the saves 116 00:07:06,290 --> 00:07:09,730 show how many people had intent to go back, maybe attempt to 117 00:07:09,730 --> 00:07:13,170 purchase. The shares show, like, how many people thought that this was 118 00:07:13,170 --> 00:07:16,805 engaging enough to circulate with other people, so the viral nature of the 119 00:07:16,805 --> 00:07:20,485 content. You could also look in stories if there was links or, you 120 00:07:20,485 --> 00:07:24,165 know, kind of those stickers. So sticker taps, link clicks. I think 121 00:07:24,165 --> 00:07:28,005 it's everything that you have to look at and not just, like, right 122 00:07:28,005 --> 00:07:31,610 up front what you're seeing as as a as an onlooker from their stats. 123 00:07:32,070 --> 00:07:35,910 Yeah. And it's definitely gotten more complicated too, both on 124 00:07:35,910 --> 00:07:39,590 the influencer sides and the brand side of, like, looking at those 125 00:07:39,590 --> 00:07:43,365 success metrics. And I think one of the challenging things is, 126 00:07:43,425 --> 00:07:46,805 you know, the you mentioned, like, niche communities. 127 00:07:47,025 --> 00:07:50,405 Sometimes the niche communities can at first appear 128 00:07:50,865 --> 00:07:54,310 smaller, but they they're very influential. And you 129 00:07:54,310 --> 00:07:58,070 mentioned, you know, with this nano all the way up to celebrities. So, you 130 00:07:58,070 --> 00:08:01,830 know, when a brand is looking at you know, should we go with a bunch 131 00:08:01,830 --> 00:08:05,530 of nano influencers, or should we go after, like, a bigger influencer? 132 00:08:05,590 --> 00:08:09,185 How do you decide the mix between the smaller, like, 133 00:08:09,185 --> 00:08:12,645 niche communities and the larger, like, more seemingly 134 00:08:12,705 --> 00:08:16,005 impactful influencers? So 135 00:08:16,945 --> 00:08:20,705 I'm, I think it obviously boils down to your objectives and your 136 00:08:20,705 --> 00:08:24,440 goals, and every brand is different. But as a marketer, I 137 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,800 look at, if I could get one person who's gonna create 138 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:31,180 one set of content and reach one audience 139 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,920 versus, let's just say, one is the same amount of, you know, 140 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:38,445 financial investment as 10 or 20 or 141 00:08:38,445 --> 00:08:41,964 30. But I should get those multiple people that add 142 00:08:41,964 --> 00:08:45,325 up to the amount of followers and engagements and as the 143 00:08:45,325 --> 00:08:48,464 one, why wouldn't I want to have diverse content, 144 00:08:49,010 --> 00:08:52,690 multiple sources of content, different formats of content, reach different 145 00:08:52,690 --> 00:08:56,450 audiences, etcetera? And so that's kind of where I look 146 00:08:56,450 --> 00:09:00,070 at it. I think it's not that one performs 147 00:09:00,290 --> 00:09:04,045 better than the other in terms of just the reach. It's everything else. Are 148 00:09:04,045 --> 00:09:07,645 your goals to get more content? Are your rules to goals to tap into new 149 00:09:07,645 --> 00:09:11,405 audiences? Are your goals to reach people throughout the country in different locations, different 150 00:09:11,405 --> 00:09:15,165 voices, different interests? Maybe within 151 00:09:15,165 --> 00:09:18,690 the same niche, but a little bit different. I think that's why I'd always go 152 00:09:18,690 --> 00:09:22,450 for the more versus the one. Yeah. Yeah. I I definitely see 153 00:09:22,450 --> 00:09:25,650 the beauty of that too. Even from, like, a brand perspective now, you have so 154 00:09:25,650 --> 00:09:29,090 many more assets to be able to, like, circulate around Yeah. Like, your 155 00:09:29,090 --> 00:09:32,475 community and all of that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So speaking of 156 00:09:32,475 --> 00:09:35,835 UGC, what do you see working really well right now? 157 00:09:35,835 --> 00:09:39,595 Because I think that engagement's down across the board. Like, we all can 158 00:09:39,595 --> 00:09:43,355 see that, especially on our beloved Instagram. It's just not like it used to 159 00:09:43,355 --> 00:09:46,980 be. So what what are, like, the types of content UGC 160 00:09:46,980 --> 00:09:50,820 pieces that are working really well right now? I don't know if it's 161 00:09:50,820 --> 00:09:54,500 just necessarily the UGC. I think it's also little touch points. 162 00:09:54,500 --> 00:09:57,880 Right? There's little places that people aren't leveraging, 163 00:09:58,100 --> 00:10:01,675 like making sure the content is in your highlights. If 164 00:10:01,675 --> 00:10:05,355 you're hiring an influencer, have that in your contract for a few days or a 165 00:10:05,355 --> 00:10:09,115 week. Making sure they don't remove the post after they got paid. 166 00:10:09,115 --> 00:10:12,875 Right? So making sure it stays up there. There's a little notes feature. 167 00:10:12,875 --> 00:10:16,620 There's all these different areas. Link in bio. I 168 00:10:16,620 --> 00:10:20,300 think that there's all these different areas that are small, tiny 169 00:10:20,300 --> 00:10:24,000 touch points that can end up helping optimize 170 00:10:24,380 --> 00:10:27,820 optimizing the content more or 171 00:10:27,820 --> 00:10:31,365 showcasing it, like, referencing it more is what I'm trying to 172 00:10:31,365 --> 00:10:34,965 say. You know, obviously, you look at 173 00:10:34,965 --> 00:10:38,805 something like TikTok and how it impacted and all these trends. I think 174 00:10:38,805 --> 00:10:42,565 we're gonna go away from those sounds and those trends a little bit, and it's 175 00:10:42,565 --> 00:10:46,180 gonna be more meaningful content. So more the educational, more 176 00:10:46,180 --> 00:10:50,019 the experience of me and my life and how I live my 177 00:10:50,019 --> 00:10:53,620 life as opposed to, like, you know, a wee you know, a cute song. I'm 178 00:10:53,620 --> 00:10:57,395 not saying they're gonna go away, but combination of some of 179 00:10:57,395 --> 00:11:01,155 these touch points that no one is it's all the little, you 180 00:11:01,155 --> 00:11:04,755 know, kind of toggles you could turn to make something work 181 00:11:04,755 --> 00:11:08,435 even more. Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. And I think this 182 00:11:08,435 --> 00:11:12,139 just goes for, like, marketing in general. Like, there's so many 183 00:11:12,139 --> 00:11:15,740 different places where you can connect, so might as well use them all to your 184 00:11:15,740 --> 00:11:19,440 advantage. Okay. So when we think about working with influencers, 185 00:11:19,740 --> 00:11:23,259 one of the things that was frustrating for me when I was working for with 186 00:11:23,259 --> 00:11:26,705 influencers is that it really is like relationship 187 00:11:26,845 --> 00:11:30,365 management. Right? Like when you're when you're working with someone, you're 188 00:11:30,365 --> 00:11:33,665 partnering with them, and there's a lot of trust involved there. 189 00:11:34,045 --> 00:11:37,885 So when brands are looking at building those relationships, building trust 190 00:11:37,885 --> 00:11:41,330 with influencers, what are some of the things that brands can think about as they're 191 00:11:41,330 --> 00:11:44,850 starting to go down the path of working with some of these 192 00:11:44,850 --> 00:11:48,530 influencers? So, obviously, given creators are creator because 193 00:11:48,530 --> 00:11:51,910 they're creative. Right? And so giving them that freedom, 194 00:11:53,065 --> 00:11:56,825 one of the things that we see that works really well is collaborating with them 195 00:11:56,825 --> 00:12:00,585 in terms of the content. So giving us concepts in 196 00:12:00,585 --> 00:12:04,345 advance so that you go back and forth and it's a mutual 197 00:12:04,345 --> 00:12:07,820 dialogue. Because I think what creators have to realize too is 198 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:11,960 sometimes, if there's 10 creators on the campaign, everyone's submitting 199 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:15,560 the same idea for a recipe, like a poke bowl idea for a 200 00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:18,920 rice bran. And so it's not that the brands are trying to get 201 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,475 pushback. It's that they definitely don't need 10 pokeball 202 00:12:22,475 --> 00:12:26,095 recipes. It's hitting the same thing. And so giving the creator 203 00:12:26,714 --> 00:12:30,315 you know, I think it goes both ways, giving them some flexibility and 204 00:12:30,315 --> 00:12:33,755 creative control in terms of submitting concepts, but also on the 205 00:12:33,755 --> 00:12:37,410 creator side, you know, really understanding that it's not 206 00:12:37,410 --> 00:12:41,170 that the brand is trying to give you pushback. We do sometimes see brands that 207 00:12:41,170 --> 00:12:44,790 are just you know, we don't like what what the influencer's wearing, 208 00:12:45,090 --> 00:12:48,610 but that should be in the upfront. Like, a brand should kind of if you 209 00:12:48,610 --> 00:12:52,425 don't like what she's her her aesthetic, it's personal, it might 210 00:12:52,425 --> 00:12:56,105 not be on brand for you, then you shouldn't, you know, kind of engage with 211 00:12:56,105 --> 00:12:59,625 them. So I think giving the influencers the 212 00:12:59,625 --> 00:13:03,464 autonomy to do creative, but having parameters in control and letting them 213 00:13:03,464 --> 00:13:06,425 know why, as long as you let them know the why. Like, we're not trying 214 00:13:06,425 --> 00:13:10,270 to be too rigid. We just have different creators submitting ideas, and 215 00:13:10,270 --> 00:13:13,810 we wanna make sure we have, you know, a broad, you know, 216 00:13:14,190 --> 00:13:18,030 pool of options from which to choose. And also, another 217 00:13:18,030 --> 00:13:21,845 thing is, you know, what we always have talked about, like, these ongoing 218 00:13:21,985 --> 00:13:25,825 partnerships. So, you know, instead of just working, like, one and done, we need 219 00:13:25,825 --> 00:13:29,605 you for this, have that ongoing relationship with the influencer. 220 00:13:29,745 --> 00:13:33,445 So maybe it's that you do an always on program with the influencer, 221 00:13:34,050 --> 00:13:37,890 you know, during key seasons or, you know, four times a year 222 00:13:37,890 --> 00:13:41,670 so that they know in advance that their year is as a partner 223 00:13:42,370 --> 00:13:46,050 as opposed to just like, you know, we need you and, you know, 224 00:13:46,050 --> 00:13:49,185 next up, we're gonna go with someone else. Yeah. 225 00:13:49,805 --> 00:13:53,325 Yeah. I find that interesting, like, the long term partnership piece 226 00:13:53,325 --> 00:13:57,165 because I find myself, just like as a human, gravitating towards 227 00:13:57,165 --> 00:14:00,525 people who talk very consistently about the things that they love. Right? And 228 00:14:00,525 --> 00:14:04,270 so when, brands can find those influencers 229 00:14:04,330 --> 00:14:08,090 who are already kind of having those conversations, I think that really does make 230 00:14:08,090 --> 00:14:11,690 it, you know, mutually beneficial. What 231 00:14:11,690 --> 00:14:15,150 about from the influencer side? I'm just curious, just 232 00:14:15,324 --> 00:14:18,545 wanna be a little bit nosy too about this because I think 233 00:14:19,245 --> 00:14:23,084 influencers have to also be selective about the brands that they work with. So 234 00:14:23,084 --> 00:14:26,764 what are what are the some of the things that brands can do to make 235 00:14:26,764 --> 00:14:30,550 their products interesting enough that, you know, the top influencers, 236 00:14:30,610 --> 00:14:34,370 top creators wanna work with them. I need to say one thing before 237 00:14:34,370 --> 00:14:38,130 because it highlights for both. It's a bridge. I see a lot, you know, when 238 00:14:38,130 --> 00:14:41,750 you're not working with an agency and you're an influencer and you're an independent, 239 00:14:42,635 --> 00:14:46,395 and then your bill doesn't get paid for the 240 00:14:46,395 --> 00:14:50,015 thirty days, the six whatever the terms are, the sixty days, the ninety days. 241 00:14:50,235 --> 00:14:53,935 And I think everyone should just understand that most influencers are, you know, solopreneurs, 242 00:14:54,395 --> 00:14:58,200 and they don't have a legal team to go chasing a bill, making 243 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,880 sure you pay your bills on time, because it really impacts the like, 244 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,640 I'm gonna cry like, it's just so heartbreaking to see that and I get 245 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,860 it. You know, huge multi conglomerate, one influencer's 246 00:15:09,785 --> 00:15:13,625 invoice is getting lost amidst bigger payments that have to go out, 247 00:15:13,625 --> 00:15:17,385 but being sensitive to the 248 00:15:17,385 --> 00:15:21,225 creator environment and that, you know, these people, you know, are working with you 249 00:15:21,225 --> 00:15:25,020 and for you when they need to get paid on time. Some of the 250 00:15:25,100 --> 00:15:27,500 one of the things, you know, in terms of how do you make your products 251 00:15:27,500 --> 00:15:31,180 stand out, I think merch. I mean, you started to see it the 252 00:15:31,180 --> 00:15:34,860 past few years, but merch is just and I see it 253 00:15:34,860 --> 00:15:38,015 not just like everyone thinks like, okay, I'm gonna create a water bottle. Bottle. It 254 00:15:38,015 --> 00:15:41,855 doesn't have to be a water bottle. There's so much creative. Or if you're 255 00:15:41,855 --> 00:15:45,475 a service brand bringing things to life with merch because 256 00:15:45,535 --> 00:15:49,135 think about finance. Like, what am I gonna show that's really so interesting in 257 00:15:49,135 --> 00:15:52,680 finance? There's nothing, you know, and there are 258 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:56,520 things. Like, we've done little baby onesies for an insurance brand. 259 00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:00,200 So the moms with life insurance, it brings it to life. I 260 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,800 think anything that you could do, we have to understand that the world is 261 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:07,485 so visual right now. And even if you're a brand that 262 00:16:07,485 --> 00:16:11,085 maybe doesn't have a product that is visual or as a 263 00:16:11,085 --> 00:16:14,765 compliment to a product that is visual, you know, adding that merch is 264 00:16:14,765 --> 00:16:18,205 great. We do the custom boxes, not just for the 265 00:16:18,205 --> 00:16:21,639 unboxing experience, but for the the staging 266 00:16:21,699 --> 00:16:25,540 properties within the kit. Because when an influencer gets 267 00:16:25,540 --> 00:16:29,300 a kit, they have all this other unique items that create that 268 00:16:29,300 --> 00:16:33,060 whole experience and gets them excited, and then their photos and their videos 269 00:16:33,060 --> 00:16:36,485 are more elevated, etcetera. So so those are some of the things that we're seeing 270 00:16:36,485 --> 00:16:40,165 that really move the needle in terms of, you know, kinda 271 00:16:40,165 --> 00:16:43,765 making things stand out. Yeah. I I always love a good 272 00:16:43,765 --> 00:16:47,524 unboxing. I'm always the one who, like, if if my faithful influencer 273 00:16:47,524 --> 00:16:51,089 is unboxing, I'm watching it. I'm watching the whole thing. Like I wanna see 274 00:16:51,410 --> 00:16:55,250 give me the packaging, like let me hear the crinkle, I need to 275 00:16:55,250 --> 00:16:58,850 experience it. And I think it is like you said it's a 276 00:16:58,850 --> 00:17:02,610 very sensory experience no matter if you have physical 277 00:17:02,610 --> 00:17:05,945 products or not. But one of the things that you mentioned that I'm curious about 278 00:17:05,945 --> 00:17:09,005 too is, like, photos and videos. Is there a particular 279 00:17:09,865 --> 00:17:13,484 style of content that's working really well right now for influencers? 280 00:17:13,625 --> 00:17:17,465 Is it all video or are photos still are they still alive 281 00:17:17,465 --> 00:17:20,920 and well? Well, Instagram just came out with the new algorithm, 282 00:17:21,220 --> 00:17:24,980 like, the big reveal of how their algorithm's gonna work. I think it dropped this 283 00:17:24,980 --> 00:17:28,340 morning. And so I think it's it's really gonna focus on 284 00:17:28,340 --> 00:17:32,100 video. Personally, again, it goes back to the brand and 285 00:17:32,100 --> 00:17:35,625 what they need. We have brands that reach out that they still need 286 00:17:35,925 --> 00:17:39,065 the static because they're using that static for other things. 287 00:17:39,925 --> 00:17:43,045 Right? They need it for ads. They need it for their website. They need it 288 00:17:43,045 --> 00:17:46,885 for product, you know, product books, things like 289 00:17:46,885 --> 00:17:50,700 that, sales kits. So it really depends. One of the things 290 00:17:50,700 --> 00:17:54,460 that I think so many companies think about or 291 00:17:54,460 --> 00:17:58,220 focus on is we need the social awareness. But I'm always pushing, like, 292 00:17:58,220 --> 00:18:01,980 omnichannel. Right? How do you like, influencers is not 293 00:18:01,980 --> 00:18:05,420 just like, oh, what's the ROI on influencer? But that's only when you look at 294 00:18:05,420 --> 00:18:09,235 it with from through the lens of, like, how many how much awareness 295 00:18:09,235 --> 00:18:12,275 and how many sales am I getting? But if you really look at it, like, 296 00:18:12,275 --> 00:18:15,875 how could we take the influencer content, which technically is 297 00:18:15,875 --> 00:18:19,315 elevated, and drop it into various other parts of 298 00:18:19,315 --> 00:18:23,150 marketing, A, the consumer journey is gonna be much more 299 00:18:23,450 --> 00:18:26,890 cohesive and you could save money because you're not gonna be like someone's not gonna 300 00:18:26,890 --> 00:18:30,350 be sitting there saying, Oh, I need to go buy an image from whatever 301 00:18:30,570 --> 00:18:34,330 platform they use to buy images or videos on. There's so many other use 302 00:18:34,330 --> 00:18:37,905 cases. So I think looking at it through a more holistic lens 303 00:18:37,905 --> 00:18:41,745 through the entire marketing organization is important. Yeah. 304 00:18:41,745 --> 00:18:45,585 Honestly, to me, that's one of the biggest benefits of working with influencers is 305 00:18:45,585 --> 00:18:49,400 that you have a team creating content for you that you can 306 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:53,160 then leverage in other elements. When I was working on this on the agency 307 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,760 side for this, one of my biggest clients was a product, like, a beauty 308 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,360 brand where we would do photo shoots. We would do the 309 00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:04,205 style video shoots, but those weren't the top performing content pieces. It was our 310 00:19:04,205 --> 00:19:07,885 UGC from our influencers that would drive 311 00:19:07,885 --> 00:19:11,644 the the content forward. So we were, like, repurposing the heck out 312 00:19:11,644 --> 00:19:15,485 of it because it made the most sense from a brand perspective 313 00:19:15,485 --> 00:19:19,120 and not just on social, but, like, on the website, in the emails. Like, there's 314 00:19:19,120 --> 00:19:22,960 so many different ways you can leverage these assets, especially, you know, depending 315 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,240 on how your contracts are laid out. Like, there's so many different things you could 316 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:29,760 do as a brand with that influencer content. So yeah. I mean, you paid for 317 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,585 it. Might as well use it to the its fullest extent. Right? Right. 318 00:19:34,125 --> 00:19:37,425 Yeah. So when we're thinking about that, like, headed into 319 00:19:37,965 --> 00:19:41,645 this upcoming year, one of the biggest things, I think challenges that 320 00:19:41,645 --> 00:19:45,105 brands are bumping up against is, like, the AI conversation. 321 00:19:46,460 --> 00:19:50,080 So what what are influencers what are brands doing to 322 00:19:50,620 --> 00:19:54,300 mitigate the risks of AI? But then, also, I would love to hear 323 00:19:54,300 --> 00:19:57,900 about, like, some of the benefits of AI in influencer marketing as 324 00:19:57,900 --> 00:20:01,595 well. You know, I think that you have to make sure 325 00:20:01,595 --> 00:20:05,355 that the approvals and checkpoints are in place to make sure that something doesn't 326 00:20:05,355 --> 00:20:08,475 look you know, it's just like my 13 year old. He comes home from school 327 00:20:08,475 --> 00:20:11,675 and he thinks he's gonna pull one over, you know. And I know when he 328 00:20:11,675 --> 00:20:15,410 uses AI and the teacher knows when they use AI and, you know, there have 329 00:20:15,410 --> 00:20:17,990 to be checks in place. But I do think it has 330 00:20:18,850 --> 00:20:22,210 merit, right? You're stuck on creating ideas for your 331 00:20:22,210 --> 00:20:25,570 content calendar. You could be really specific. I don't think 332 00:20:25,570 --> 00:20:29,275 anyone is gonna go out and copy exactly, but it's an 333 00:20:29,275 --> 00:20:32,955 idea generator. It helps you think of ideas. It helps 334 00:20:32,955 --> 00:20:36,635 you check your work. So you could put in, you know, a guidelines 335 00:20:36,635 --> 00:20:40,475 from a brief and then upload, you know, the caption copy and say, does this 336 00:20:40,475 --> 00:20:44,090 make did I miss anything? Can you edit this? I think it's a 337 00:20:44,090 --> 00:20:47,070 good kind of tool in terms of idea generation 338 00:20:48,090 --> 00:20:51,690 and editing and things like that. But I don't think I think the 339 00:20:51,690 --> 00:20:55,050 influencers themselves, they're not gonna start replacing themselves and 340 00:20:55,050 --> 00:20:58,665 replacing real footage with fake footage in an 341 00:20:59,065 --> 00:21:02,285 full video because this is what they do. Yeah. 342 00:21:02,585 --> 00:21:06,345 Yeah. A %. And I think AI can feel 343 00:21:06,345 --> 00:21:09,865 scary. And, yeah, there are some people who are, like, using it maliciously. But I 344 00:21:09,865 --> 00:21:13,120 think for the most part, like, if we learn to embrace it and use it 345 00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:16,640 as a tool to help us with our creative work, it could be it could 346 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:20,480 be really interesting use case. And I think there's just so many ways 347 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:24,320 that we haven't even explored yet, like, the the true extent of 348 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,934 how it can help. You mean someone put in my name 349 00:21:27,934 --> 00:21:31,554 into some I don't know what platform and said, can you create a BabbleBox 350 00:21:31,774 --> 00:21:35,534 podcast that would be five like, the thirty second intro? And it was like me 351 00:21:35,534 --> 00:21:37,475 talking, introducing a podcast. 352 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,840 Wild. Yeah. Well, time will tell. Time 353 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,560 will tell. I'm not doing it, but I'm just saying it's like, I don't know. 354 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:49,340 Yeah. Yeah. I really hope we don't have AI influencers, 355 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,015 but I mean, I already see it happening. 356 00:21:53,554 --> 00:21:56,995 So yeah. Okay. I would love to 357 00:21:56,995 --> 00:22:00,355 hear some success stories as well. So I think one of 358 00:22:00,355 --> 00:22:03,735 the challenges, especially for brands who are newer 359 00:22:03,900 --> 00:22:07,440 to influencer marketing, is that sometimes we can't conceptualize. 360 00:22:07,740 --> 00:22:11,500 Like, what does success look like as we're starting to deploy some of 361 00:22:11,500 --> 00:22:15,260 these strategies? So can you share an example of a campaign that really stood 362 00:22:15,260 --> 00:22:18,985 out to you where the influencer had a an impact on 363 00:22:18,985 --> 00:22:22,825 the brand's success story? I'm gonna give you two because I just did a 364 00:22:22,825 --> 00:22:26,345 campaign wrap up call with the client. So we have a program that we designed 365 00:22:26,345 --> 00:22:29,865 specifically for smaller emerging brands because we know influencer can be 366 00:22:29,865 --> 00:22:33,410 daunting and expensive. And so we do these themed 367 00:22:33,410 --> 00:22:36,950 boxes where there's five brands in a box. Not 368 00:22:37,970 --> 00:22:41,730 brand specific, it's a theme. So we just did a kid's toy one for 369 00:22:41,730 --> 00:22:45,330 holiday. And that campaign, it's 370 00:22:45,330 --> 00:22:49,065 less expensive because you're pooling your ad dollars. It goes up to 20 371 00:22:49,065 --> 00:22:52,285 influencers. So you're getting a lot of bang for your buck. They're all micros. 372 00:22:52,665 --> 00:22:56,445 But when we looked at the stats, there were like 373 00:22:56,665 --> 00:23:00,500 a hun like, beyond it's not just the 374 00:23:00,500 --> 00:23:04,260 impression reach. It was the views were over, like, 300,000 375 00:23:04,260 --> 00:23:07,940 views. The likes, the comments were over fifteen, sixteen, 376 00:23:07,940 --> 00:23:11,700 17 thousand. I mean, it was outrageous. So I think, you 377 00:23:11,700 --> 00:23:15,335 know, looking at, like, different creative 378 00:23:15,394 --> 00:23:18,855 ways to do influencer, that's one example. 379 00:23:19,235 --> 00:23:22,115 You know, I I think you have to also frame it. You know, a lot 380 00:23:22,115 --> 00:23:25,414 of times, a newer brand, an emerging brand, everything is ROI 381 00:23:25,475 --> 00:23:29,170 focused. They're dependent on that sale. And so if that's 382 00:23:29,170 --> 00:23:32,770 where you are, that's okay. But then I would just focus on 383 00:23:32,770 --> 00:23:36,450 working independently, find one or two people, search for people who 384 00:23:36,450 --> 00:23:40,095 actually know your brand maybe or writing about your brand, and work 385 00:23:40,095 --> 00:23:43,855 with one person and grow it organically until you get to two people or 386 00:23:43,855 --> 00:23:47,695 three people when you could afford it. I think the misconception is I'm gonna work 387 00:23:47,695 --> 00:23:51,535 with one influencer, and they're gonna get me this many sales. And once you 388 00:23:51,535 --> 00:23:55,230 think it's just sales driven, it's not just sales driven. As I said 389 00:23:55,230 --> 00:23:58,830 before, there's so many other ways in which 390 00:23:58,830 --> 00:24:02,590 an influencer can move the needle for you. So they're saving you in 391 00:24:02,590 --> 00:24:06,130 terms of creating your own content now. All you have you have a content library. 392 00:24:06,605 --> 00:24:10,285 You know, you could use these assets. You can boost an influencer's content. You could 393 00:24:10,285 --> 00:24:13,965 turn it into ads. You can use it for your website, your newsletter, you 394 00:24:13,965 --> 00:24:17,485 know, ratings and reviews, endorsements. Like, look at this 395 00:24:17,485 --> 00:24:21,030 influencer who worked with us. So I think thinking of creative 396 00:24:21,030 --> 00:24:24,809 ways, and I'll give you an example. Like, on smaller spends, 397 00:24:25,350 --> 00:24:29,110 you know, if you spend you know, it's not gonna be if I spend 398 00:24:29,110 --> 00:24:32,870 $5,000, I'm gonna get $15.20, $30,000. You have to think 399 00:24:32,870 --> 00:24:36,645 of other ways, in which you're gonna 400 00:24:36,645 --> 00:24:40,245 monetize that content. I'm not saying it can't happen. It 401 00:24:40,245 --> 00:24:44,005 does happen. But, you know, repeating 402 00:24:44,005 --> 00:24:47,730 a message over and over, especially when you're a smaller brand and no one 403 00:24:47,730 --> 00:24:51,410 knows who you are, is really Yeah. And I 404 00:24:51,410 --> 00:24:55,250 think that's one of the beautiful things that I love about influencer marketing is, like, 405 00:24:55,250 --> 00:24:59,010 it's not us patting ourselves on the back going like, oh, our product is awesome. 406 00:24:59,010 --> 00:25:02,774 It's like someone else, like, validating that for our for 407 00:25:02,774 --> 00:25:06,075 us and in our marketing. And I love this idea of the curated 408 00:25:06,695 --> 00:25:10,375 box, like, influencer box. It's such a 409 00:25:10,375 --> 00:25:13,654 brilliant idea. Beautiful. I love it. So if someone's listening to this and they're like, 410 00:25:13,654 --> 00:25:17,492 okay. I need I need to work with Sherri and her team. Tell 411 00:25:17,492 --> 00:25:21,201 us more about how you help brands and influencers work together. So we 412 00:25:21,201 --> 00:25:24,909 work on the brand side. Right? We have thousands of influencers, but we 413 00:25:24,909 --> 00:25:28,618 work on the brand side. We do brand dedicated campaigns, which is what 414 00:25:28,618 --> 00:25:31,915 probably everyone knows and sees the locks. Right? A regular influencer 415 00:25:32,054 --> 00:25:35,595 campaign. We have our co promotions, which are these themed 416 00:25:35,895 --> 00:25:39,575 multi brand solutions. We have all different boxes: food, 417 00:25:39,575 --> 00:25:42,934 new mom and baby, pet, kids, health 418 00:25:42,934 --> 00:25:46,700 wellness. Those bring in five non competing brands. And then we do 419 00:25:46,700 --> 00:25:50,540 the custom kits too. But essentially we're working with 420 00:25:50,540 --> 00:25:53,980 companies or the agencies to come up with the strategies, find the 421 00:25:53,980 --> 00:25:57,655 right program, make up the whole kind of 422 00:25:57,655 --> 00:26:01,495 scope of work for what we're gonna do, and then we find the influencers that 423 00:26:01,495 --> 00:26:05,175 fit the specific need that we're looking to do. Yes. I 424 00:26:05,175 --> 00:26:08,775 love this. So if you're listening to this and you wanna work with BabbleBox, I'm 425 00:26:08,775 --> 00:26:10,695 gonna put a link in the show notes online 426 00:26:10,695 --> 00:26:14,400 dreya.com/350 so you can learn more. Where 427 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,160 else can people connect with you online? I'm on LinkedIn under Sherri 428 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,380 Langford on LinkedIn, and then BabbleBox is BabbleBox 429 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,185 official on LinkedIn, on Instagram, and all the other 430 00:26:25,265 --> 00:26:29,025 channels as well. And then our website. Oh, awesome. Awesome. I'll put all of those 431 00:26:29,025 --> 00:26:32,225 links in the show notes, y'all. Check them out. Sherri, thank you so much for 432 00:26:32,225 --> 00:26:35,665 being on the show today. Thank you so much. It was so lovely chatting with 433 00:26:35,665 --> 00:26:39,115 you. Yes. And thank you, dear listener, for tuning in to another episode of the 434 00:26:39,115 --> 00:26:40,255 Mindful Marketing Podcast. Make sure you join us in the Mindful Marketing Lab if you 435 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,679 Marketing Podcast. Make sure you join us in the Mindful Marketing Lab if you wanna 436 00:26:44,679 --> 00:26:48,360 go even deeper into these marketing strategies. We have a special 437 00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:52,200 guest coming in the lab this month to talk all about playfulness in 438 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,845 marketing and in our business, so stay tuned for that. And I'll have a new 439 00:26:55,845 --> 00:26:59,365 episode for you next Tuesday, so I'll see you then. Bye for 440 00:26:59,365 --> 00:26:59,865 now.