1 00:00:00,799 --> 00:00:04,480 Welcome to episode number 336 of the mindful 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:08,080 marketing podcast. In a continuation of my series this 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,920 month for sharing episodes that I was a guest on, I'm excited to 4 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,465 share an episode of the BS free business podcast with 5 00:00:15,545 --> 00:00:19,225 Maggie Patterson. I always love Maggie's no fluff approach 6 00:00:19,225 --> 00:00:22,825 to building service based businesses. It's just so refreshing. And so I was 7 00:00:22,825 --> 00:00:26,345 honored to be back on her podcast. And in this episode, we tackled a 8 00:00:26,345 --> 00:00:30,110 topic that's near and dear to my heart, the evolution of social 9 00:00:30,110 --> 00:00:33,870 media and how to use it more mindfully. In this episode, we dig 10 00:00:33,870 --> 00:00:37,650 into some really big questions like, how do you set boundaries and maintain 11 00:00:37,710 --> 00:00:41,390 privacy in this digital world? Or why does social media sometimes 12 00:00:41,390 --> 00:00:44,954 feel like a never ending situationship? And, how can you show up 13 00:00:44,954 --> 00:00:48,655 authentically online without falling into the performative vulnerability 14 00:00:48,795 --> 00:00:52,394 trap. I also talk about my journey from solo 15 00:00:52,394 --> 00:00:55,995 social media freelancer to leading an agency as well as my 16 00:00:55,995 --> 00:00:59,135 thoughts on moving away from hustle culture to a more intentional 17 00:00:59,910 --> 00:01:03,750 and balanced approach, not just to social media, but to business. So if 18 00:01:03,750 --> 00:01:07,509 you ever feel like social media is running your whole freaking life or 19 00:01:07,509 --> 00:01:11,030 if you've ever wondered about how do we make it work for you instead of 20 00:01:11,030 --> 00:01:14,675 against you, this episode is for you. Listen to 21 00:01:14,675 --> 00:01:18,375 my conversation with Maggie on the BS free podcast and let me know 22 00:01:18,755 --> 00:01:20,775 what resonates with you the most. 23 00:01:29,170 --> 00:01:33,010 Social media is evolving quickly, and many of us have a love hate relationship with 24 00:01:33,010 --> 00:01:36,850 it. But what if you didn't spend your energy worrying about the 25 00:01:36,850 --> 00:01:40,605 algorithm and instead found a way that works for you? One that helps you 26 00:01:40,605 --> 00:01:44,285 connect it all together in a way that feels good. In this episode, Andrea 27 00:01:44,285 --> 00:01:47,965 Jones, a mindful marketing strategist, discusses her evolving approach to social 28 00:01:47,965 --> 00:01:51,345 media and her desire to have deeper conversations about its impact. 29 00:01:51,930 --> 00:01:55,610 Hey, Andrea, welcome to the show. Hey, Maggie. Thanks for having me on the 30 00:01:55,610 --> 00:01:59,290 show. I'm excited to have you back. We've had you talk about a lot of 31 00:01:59,290 --> 00:02:02,190 different things. Last time you were on, you were talking about LinkedIn, 32 00:02:02,730 --> 00:02:06,510 but I wanna chat about how your business is evolving 33 00:02:07,235 --> 00:02:10,995 and how you're looking at social media now. So for those 34 00:02:10,995 --> 00:02:14,775 of the listeners that don't know you, can you introduce yourself and your business? 35 00:02:15,155 --> 00:02:18,995 Yes. So I now consider myself a mindful marketing 36 00:02:18,995 --> 00:02:22,750 strategist with a focus on social media. And my business, 37 00:02:22,750 --> 00:02:26,430 I have an agency where we deliver social media services. And then I 38 00:02:26,430 --> 00:02:29,870 also teach social media in our kind of like education arm of the 39 00:02:29,870 --> 00:02:33,710 business. I love it. Okay. So the reason I invited you 40 00:02:33,710 --> 00:02:36,510 to be on the show is because I love you and you always have something 41 00:02:36,510 --> 00:02:40,285 insightful to say. But back in the fall, you started sharing about how you 42 00:02:40,285 --> 00:02:43,805 want to evolve your business and you really weren't 43 00:02:43,805 --> 00:02:47,485 sure what was next. So can you share a little bit of what was 44 00:02:47,485 --> 00:02:51,100 going on that prompted that kind of like, oh, interesting. I 45 00:02:51,100 --> 00:02:54,460 wanna look at what I'm doing and think about this a little differently. Yes. Well, 46 00:02:54,460 --> 00:02:58,220 I've been feeling a little bit of dissonance with social media for 47 00:02:58,220 --> 00:03:01,920 a while because there's this perception when I say 48 00:03:02,060 --> 00:03:05,685 I'm a social media strategist. Yep. That people would have. 49 00:03:05,685 --> 00:03:09,445 They would expect me to be, I don't know, maybe, like, someone like 50 00:03:09,445 --> 00:03:12,345 Gary v who posts a 1000000 times a day and moves on the Internet. 51 00:03:13,525 --> 00:03:17,065 And that's not my vibe at all. 52 00:03:17,390 --> 00:03:20,830 And I was feeling bad because some of my favorite people would feel 53 00:03:20,830 --> 00:03:24,430 apologetic about things like, yeah. I decided to close my 54 00:03:24,430 --> 00:03:28,270 Instagram or, you know, I haven't posted in 6 months, 55 00:03:28,270 --> 00:03:32,050 and I'm like, good for you. I love that for you. You know? 56 00:03:32,110 --> 00:03:35,855 And so I I was feeling a little bit of dissonance with, like, perception 57 00:03:36,155 --> 00:03:39,835 on what I do versus what I actually do because that has been 58 00:03:39,835 --> 00:03:43,595 changing for quite a long time. I mentioned Gary v earlier, but he 59 00:03:43,595 --> 00:03:47,275 was one of my early, like, people I look to for marketing because I did 60 00:03:47,275 --> 00:03:50,459 find his concepts interesting and the strategies interesting. 61 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:54,680 But I realized very quickly, it's not for me. I am introverted. I 62 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:58,379 need my books and my crochet and, like, leave me alone, please, moments. 63 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:02,685 And while I do love peopling, I do it in a way that works 64 00:04:02,765 --> 00:04:06,385 for me, and the Internet actually makes that easier for me. 65 00:04:06,685 --> 00:04:10,444 So this whole transition kinda culminated in 66 00:04:10,444 --> 00:04:14,145 a live event I hosted that you were at in November of 2023 67 00:04:14,765 --> 00:04:18,329 where we were having conversations that were the conversations I 68 00:04:18,409 --> 00:04:21,849 so desperately wanted to have more regularly. It 69 00:04:21,849 --> 00:04:25,210 was beyond, like, how many times should we post on 70 00:04:25,210 --> 00:04:28,889 TikTok? And it was more like, how is TikTok 71 00:04:28,889 --> 00:04:32,495 affecting the way we do business? What if we 72 00:04:32,555 --> 00:04:36,155 decide not to be on TikTok? Or, you know, let's zoom out and, 73 00:04:36,155 --> 00:04:39,615 like, really figure out how social media fits into our marketing ecosystems. 74 00:04:40,155 --> 00:04:43,675 How do we balance this? And, like, people had aging parents or 75 00:04:43,675 --> 00:04:47,300 young children or a full time job. And and so those are 76 00:04:47,300 --> 00:04:50,660 the conversations I want to have. And so a lot of 77 00:04:50,660 --> 00:04:54,020 this switch for me is leaning into, 78 00:04:54,020 --> 00:04:57,860 like, my desire to to have those conversations instead of 79 00:04:57,860 --> 00:05:01,075 being so surface level or tactical focused. 80 00:05:01,535 --> 00:05:05,295 Okay. And I think here's the thing that we get so trapped in, 81 00:05:05,295 --> 00:05:08,815 I love the word tactical, with social media. When the conversations are 82 00:05:08,815 --> 00:05:12,290 happening, a lot of time it was always like, what audio should I be 83 00:05:12,290 --> 00:05:15,650 using? And I'm sure when you are working with your clients on a strategy 84 00:05:15,650 --> 00:05:19,410 level, like that's not the conversation. The conversation is, 85 00:05:19,410 --> 00:05:23,250 should you be using TikTok? How does Instagram fit in your business? 86 00:05:23,250 --> 00:05:26,975 Is this the right platform? What is gonna work for you as a human? 87 00:05:26,975 --> 00:05:30,575 I mean, those are the types of conversations that have to go 88 00:05:30,575 --> 00:05:34,415 ahead of any tactic. Exactly. And it it 89 00:05:34,415 --> 00:05:38,015 goes far beyond, like, oh, I should post 3 times a week 90 00:05:38,015 --> 00:05:41,810 on Instagram. And so I'm already having these 91 00:05:41,810 --> 00:05:45,509 conversations with my clients and with my members in my program. 92 00:05:46,129 --> 00:05:49,969 And it it felt a little bit like I was always redefining myself with 93 00:05:49,969 --> 00:05:53,675 people. It's like, I'm a social media strategist, but here's my asterisk. 94 00:05:53,895 --> 00:05:57,254 Here's the, you know, footnote. And I'm like, I want the footnote to be the 95 00:05:57,254 --> 00:06:01,094 main thing now. So Yes. That's where a lot of this came from 96 00:06:01,094 --> 00:06:04,854 because it's the tactics are so easy to focus on. There is a 97 00:06:04,854 --> 00:06:08,630 point in business where that is necessary, especially when you're learning something 98 00:06:08,630 --> 00:06:12,310 new. But I've been doing this for 10 years, and it feels like it 99 00:06:12,310 --> 00:06:16,150 is time to evolve. Yeah. Especially too when so 100 00:06:16,150 --> 00:06:19,910 much of the conversation now is about, like, what is social media doing to our 101 00:06:19,910 --> 00:06:23,525 brains? How does it impact us on a personal level? And I 102 00:06:23,525 --> 00:06:27,365 know you've been very vocal with your kiddo, just being like, 103 00:06:27,365 --> 00:06:30,485 I don't wanna live out my kid's life on social media, and that's a choice 104 00:06:30,485 --> 00:06:34,085 we've made as a family. So, I mean, there's really kind of bigger 105 00:06:34,085 --> 00:06:37,930 existential questions at stake. Exactly. And it goes beyond 106 00:06:37,930 --> 00:06:41,770 my kid too. Like, a lot of my family makes that decision too. My dad, 107 00:06:41,770 --> 00:06:45,370 my brother, both of them are people who are like, I don't want to be 108 00:06:45,370 --> 00:06:49,050 on social media. And if there is a photo of me, like, 109 00:06:49,050 --> 00:06:52,544 let me have a look at it first, because they they're very private people. And 110 00:06:52,544 --> 00:06:56,005 I a 100% respect that and admire that. 111 00:06:56,305 --> 00:06:59,685 And so but to me, it's like it's such a deeper question around 112 00:07:00,305 --> 00:07:04,005 boundaries and privacy and 113 00:07:04,465 --> 00:07:07,819 preference. There's this assumption, in 114 00:07:07,819 --> 00:07:11,659 2024 that everyone is, like, it's open season to put everything on 115 00:07:11,659 --> 00:07:15,419 the Internet. And that that's a conversation I wanna have. Like, okay. But where's the 116 00:07:15,419 --> 00:07:18,539 line? You know, I say this a lot of times with people, like, filming other 117 00:07:18,539 --> 00:07:22,195 people in public and posting. Oh my gosh. Right? Yeah. Usually, this 118 00:07:22,195 --> 00:07:25,555 happens in, like, a shaming way, and I'm like, oh, this is so I don't 119 00:07:25,555 --> 00:07:28,995 want this to be the society I live in. Let's talk about it. Let's talk 120 00:07:28,995 --> 00:07:32,675 about why we shouldn't do this. So my gym actually 121 00:07:32,675 --> 00:07:36,300 has signs up about filming everywhere. And, you know, obviously, there's one 122 00:07:36,300 --> 00:07:40,060 in, you know, the main area because they're having so many problems with, let's just 123 00:07:40,060 --> 00:07:43,659 say, the younger folks, you know, taking pictures, and I bless them. They're 124 00:07:43,659 --> 00:07:47,419 taking pictures of their booties and, like, look at me. Alright. I got my 125 00:07:47,580 --> 00:07:50,895 like, it's good for them. They're feeling good about themselves. But I actually 126 00:07:50,955 --> 00:07:54,715 watched 2 women get in like an altercation in the 127 00:07:54,715 --> 00:07:57,995 change room over there was a woman taking a picture of herself in the mirror, 128 00:07:57,995 --> 00:08:01,755 which seems really harmless, but it's 129 00:08:01,755 --> 00:08:05,440 in the mirror, so you could see the person behind. What? 130 00:08:05,820 --> 00:08:09,660 Oh, my gosh. Yeah. So they've kinda getting into it, and I was like, if 131 00:08:09,660 --> 00:08:13,020 it didn't escalate, I was just like, they just kinda started and they, like, resolved 132 00:08:13,020 --> 00:08:16,780 it fairly quickly. But I was like, no. Actually, the policy is you 133 00:08:16,780 --> 00:08:20,335 can't do that in the change room. Like, the person raising the issue is 134 00:08:20,335 --> 00:08:23,854 right. But, also, I don't wanna have to be worried about that all the time. 135 00:08:23,854 --> 00:08:26,514 I just wanna get changed and go where I'm going in peace. 136 00:08:27,215 --> 00:08:30,975 Exactly. Exactly. And so, like, I think that your 137 00:08:30,975 --> 00:08:34,789 gym putting up signs is a beautiful thing. I hope more places do 138 00:08:34,789 --> 00:08:37,770 that because it it feels invasive. 139 00:08:38,630 --> 00:08:42,470 And even for stuff that I voluntarily put out there, like, for example, my 140 00:08:42,470 --> 00:08:45,350 my dog, Gibson, I talk about a lot. He's like a little bit of a 141 00:08:45,350 --> 00:08:48,715 crutch for me because he's so cute and everyone loves him. But I have 142 00:08:48,715 --> 00:08:52,235 people I don't know ask me about Gibson by 143 00:08:52,235 --> 00:08:55,915 name, and that freaks me out. It freaks me 144 00:08:55,915 --> 00:08:59,675 out. And so if it's just with my dog, I can't imagine 145 00:08:59,675 --> 00:09:03,199 what it would be like with other things in my personal life that actually not 146 00:09:03,199 --> 00:09:06,959 that you don't matter, Gibson, but that actually matter. Well, it goes 147 00:09:06,959 --> 00:09:10,240 to the whole and we just talked about this on a recent duped episode, Michelle 148 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,379 and I, about the parasocial relationship. Like, people get this 149 00:09:13,865 --> 00:09:17,625 lens into your world, this like, they can glimpse of things and they 150 00:09:17,625 --> 00:09:21,325 start to feel like they really know you. Mhmm. Yes. 151 00:09:21,385 --> 00:09:25,065 And I mean, going to what, you know, your father, your brother, like, I 152 00:09:25,065 --> 00:09:28,690 don't share my partner. I don't share my like, on Facebook 153 00:09:28,750 --> 00:09:32,450 occasionally, but that's different because I have control of who's seeing that. 154 00:09:32,670 --> 00:09:35,630 But I mean, otherwise, I have so many people be like, I didn't even know 155 00:09:35,630 --> 00:09:38,350 you were married. I didn't know you had a kid. I'm like, excellent. My job 156 00:09:38,350 --> 00:09:42,145 here is done. It's working. Yeah. I feel 157 00:09:42,145 --> 00:09:45,905 the same way too. I think if my husband weren't what I would 158 00:09:45,905 --> 00:09:49,605 call, like, a local celebrity I don't know if celebrity celebrity. He's he's 159 00:09:50,065 --> 00:09:53,905 a locally known person. Like, he's also very private. Even though we met 160 00:09:53,905 --> 00:09:57,709 on the Internet, he's also very private. And so same thing with him. 161 00:09:57,709 --> 00:10:01,230 A lot of times like, we don't post when we go on vacation. We don't 162 00:10:01,230 --> 00:10:05,070 post Yeah. What we're doing on a day to day basis. Like, if I happen 163 00:10:05,070 --> 00:10:08,670 to go somewhere, that picture may show up months from now if I 164 00:10:08,670 --> 00:10:12,050 decide to even to ever post it. And so there are 165 00:10:12,475 --> 00:10:16,095 very strong boundaries around that, and that's kind of I don't know. To 166 00:10:16,395 --> 00:10:20,155 me, it's not what people assume when they look at me and they see social 167 00:10:20,155 --> 00:10:23,835 media strategist. Not at all. So one of the things that 168 00:10:23,835 --> 00:10:27,320 really caught my attention is you started doing you called it, what was it, thinking 169 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:30,920 out loud, and you were really doing this in public. Like, you were and I 170 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:34,759 wanna be a little nosy. Like, what inspired you to do it in public, and 171 00:10:34,759 --> 00:10:38,440 what was the reaction to that? So part of the reason I 172 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:42,255 wanted to do this in public was because I actually saw quite a few 173 00:10:42,255 --> 00:10:45,855 people pivoting. I think you also talked about this on the 174 00:10:45,855 --> 00:10:49,475 duped podcast, where all of these celebrity entrepreneurs 175 00:10:50,175 --> 00:10:53,695 Oh. Are trying to make their pivot seem like something, 176 00:10:53,695 --> 00:10:57,420 like, they just dreamed up, and it's so easy to make this decision, and they're 177 00:10:57,420 --> 00:11:01,100 just deciding to do it. And I didn't wanna be grouped in with 178 00:11:01,100 --> 00:11:04,860 those people. I wanted to be like I wanted to be 179 00:11:04,860 --> 00:11:08,460 very publicly, like, I don't know what I'm doing here, but I'm feeling pulled into 180 00:11:08,460 --> 00:11:11,905 a different direction. And so I wanna talk about it a little bit. 181 00:11:12,125 --> 00:11:15,805 I also wanted to be very open about the 182 00:11:15,805 --> 00:11:19,165 changes that are happening in social media because a lot of 183 00:11:19,165 --> 00:11:23,005 people are blaming the algorithm. They're blaming your 184 00:11:23,005 --> 00:11:26,500 content. They're blaming, I don't know, Elon Musk. They're they're 185 00:11:26,500 --> 00:11:29,480 blaming everyone. And I think this is 186 00:11:30,500 --> 00:11:34,260 a challenge in social media that is actually echoes of a challenge with 187 00:11:34,260 --> 00:11:38,019 digital marketing in general. Yeah. That as 188 00:11:38,019 --> 00:11:41,515 a marketer, I feel very uncomfy 189 00:11:41,975 --> 00:11:45,675 about it. And it goes back to that whole, like, is this 190 00:11:45,895 --> 00:11:49,355 right? Are we doing the right thing here? Like, that big question. And so 191 00:11:49,655 --> 00:11:53,190 all of this came at a time where my business was 192 00:11:53,190 --> 00:11:56,889 slowing down. I'm not gonna say descaling. And, again, people romanticize 193 00:11:57,110 --> 00:12:00,329 this right now. I decided to romantic in the least. 194 00:12:00,630 --> 00:12:04,149 Yeah. I decided to, like, make my business cozier. You know, the 195 00:12:04,149 --> 00:12:07,955 market changed how, like, how many clients I 196 00:12:07,955 --> 00:12:11,415 have at the moment. I had to let go of some of my team. 197 00:12:11,795 --> 00:12:15,475 I just had this amazing retreat, and I was feeling really 198 00:12:15,475 --> 00:12:18,860 inspired at the time to talk about, like, the 199 00:12:18,860 --> 00:12:22,160 challenges of thinking about marketing here now and today. 200 00:12:22,540 --> 00:12:26,000 And so the first part of the series, I just 201 00:12:26,459 --> 00:12:29,899 was I think I wrote, like, 5 emails all at once because I was like, 202 00:12:29,899 --> 00:12:32,855 this is not gonna fit into 1. And then I was like, oh, this feels 203 00:12:32,855 --> 00:12:36,695 really good. And I shared it with my email list, and then a 204 00:12:36,695 --> 00:12:40,535 lot of people responded to those emails confirming what I 205 00:12:40,535 --> 00:12:43,975 was already thinking. And so I kept going with the series. I think I ended 206 00:12:43,975 --> 00:12:47,600 at 18 or 19. And then at that point, it felt too exposed because I 207 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,000 was like, oh, I feel like I'm getting closer to where I wanna go, and 208 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,760 I'm not yet ready to share this part yet. So I ended the series and 209 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,600 entered into, like, a more reflective moment. But it really came 210 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:01,005 from, like, I don't wanna be, like, the celebrity 211 00:13:01,065 --> 00:13:04,745 entrepreneurs who are like, yeah. I just woke up and felt inspired. I wanted to 212 00:13:04,745 --> 00:13:08,584 show, like this took months of feeling very 213 00:13:08,584 --> 00:13:12,264 uncertain about everything, and I just wanna share with you how uncertain I 214 00:13:12,264 --> 00:13:15,730 feel right now. And this is why it really caught my 215 00:13:15,730 --> 00:13:19,410 attention because it normalizes the 216 00:13:19,410 --> 00:13:22,930 fact that these evolutions and leaving things behind in our 217 00:13:22,930 --> 00:13:26,610 business take time. And that's a big reason I wanted to have these conversations with 218 00:13:26,610 --> 00:13:30,375 people because what I see a lot of, and you you've really picked up on 219 00:13:30,375 --> 00:13:33,975 this, is that people are literally like, they show 220 00:13:33,975 --> 00:13:37,495 up, they have totally changed their business or totally 221 00:13:37,495 --> 00:13:41,255 changed direction. They're like, it took me 2 weeks and I'm like, woah, woah, woah. 222 00:13:41,255 --> 00:13:44,900 That's not in line with reality. And It really does people a disservice of thinking 223 00:13:44,900 --> 00:13:48,660 they should be able to evolve or pivot that quickly. Like, I think of my 224 00:13:48,660 --> 00:13:52,420 own evolutions. They're very slow, and there's a lot of 225 00:13:52,500 --> 00:13:55,875 I'm very uncomfortable for quite some time as I'm going through them. 226 00:13:56,115 --> 00:13:59,895 Yeah. And for me, this is probably the biggest 227 00:14:00,115 --> 00:14:03,715 evolution I've made in my business. So to be doing the same thing 228 00:14:03,715 --> 00:14:06,695 for 10 years and then to change, 229 00:14:07,395 --> 00:14:10,740 I felt like a fraud for half of it. I was like, I don't know 230 00:14:10,740 --> 00:14:14,500 what I'm doing here, and I feel like I should. And then let's 231 00:14:14,500 --> 00:14:18,120 talk about that. And, again, this came from the retreat too because I felt like 232 00:14:18,260 --> 00:14:21,080 there's something that happens when you actually 233 00:14:21,620 --> 00:14:24,995 admit out loud to a collective 234 00:14:25,055 --> 00:14:28,735 feeling. And I really felt like there were more people feeling 235 00:14:28,735 --> 00:14:32,415 this way and not enough people talking about it, and so I really wanted to 236 00:14:32,415 --> 00:14:36,025 reflect that. Well, you touched on the fact that, you know, 237 00:14:36,025 --> 00:14:39,710 you will use descaled because of the way the economy is and 238 00:14:39,710 --> 00:14:43,550 just, like, the realities here in 2024 as we've been through I don't 239 00:14:43,550 --> 00:14:46,990 know if we're in a recession or a market correction or, like, I'm not an 240 00:14:46,990 --> 00:14:50,370 economist. I don't wanna play 1 on this podcast, but 241 00:14:50,694 --> 00:14:54,375 you had to make some choices. And I feel like collectively, a 242 00:14:54,375 --> 00:14:57,754 lot of people have made those choices. A lot of people had very 243 00:14:58,214 --> 00:15:01,894 not great years in business last year, but people are 244 00:15:01,894 --> 00:15:05,014 turning it into like, like you said, I want my business to be more cozy. 245 00:15:05,014 --> 00:15:08,570 I want this, I want that. Not picking on anyone who's uses the term cozy. 246 00:15:08,570 --> 00:15:12,170 There's a few people that use it that I I absolutely adore. But at the 247 00:15:12,170 --> 00:15:15,930 end of the day, I don't know, people want, like, the applause of all the 248 00:15:15,930 --> 00:15:18,890 good things, but they don't wanna talk about the messy things. And I'm not like 249 00:15:18,890 --> 00:15:21,785 you have to put it all out there, but I feel like we have a 250 00:15:21,785 --> 00:15:25,085 duty to if we're gonna build a community around our business, 251 00:15:25,545 --> 00:15:28,845 to not do them a disservice by misleading them. 252 00:15:29,065 --> 00:15:32,505 Yes. Exactly. And especially since I 253 00:15:32,505 --> 00:15:35,645 do feel the responsibility of 254 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,620 also reflecting what this means for social media itself. 255 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,780 Yeah. I don't want to be the person who's, like, 256 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,760 anti hustle. Right? Like, I don't think that's my vibe, but I'm also 257 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:51,555 not hustle. It's like, okay. Let's find the middle ground or you 258 00:15:51,555 --> 00:15:54,835 know what I mean? And I feel like it felt right. It felt like the 259 00:15:54,835 --> 00:15:58,675 time. I wanted to be public about it because transparency is one of 260 00:15:58,675 --> 00:16:02,435 my values, and it didn't feel like a boundary to be crossed until 261 00:16:02,435 --> 00:16:06,279 it did. And then I stopped posting the series. Okay. So, I mean, you've gone 262 00:16:06,279 --> 00:16:09,880 through the process here of kinda publicly sharing. You've kind of 263 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:13,399 pulled back. So you've had some time to think about it. So and, you know, 264 00:16:13,399 --> 00:16:16,680 you don't have to tell us all the things. We're all about, you know, keeping 265 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,935 what you need to keep to yourself. But what does the future of your business 266 00:16:19,995 --> 00:16:23,515 look like, and how does that play out for you over the next little 267 00:16:23,515 --> 00:16:27,275 while? For the first time ever in my business, I have, like, the 10 year 268 00:16:27,275 --> 00:16:30,715 goal, and I have no idea how am I gonna get there. I'm usually like 269 00:16:30,715 --> 00:16:33,510 a, I know what I'm gonna do for the next 6 months or 1 year, 270 00:16:33,510 --> 00:16:37,350 but after that, who knows? You know? Kind of a I was gonna say, 271 00:16:37,350 --> 00:16:41,110 that is impressive. I have never had a 10 year goal. I don't know 272 00:16:41,110 --> 00:16:44,504 if it's just how my I literally can't conceptualize it. I could write it down, 273 00:16:44,504 --> 00:16:47,065 but I'd be like, yeah, I I can't even get like, I can't even think 274 00:16:47,065 --> 00:16:50,425 about my brain's melting thinking about you having a 10 year goal. You 275 00:16:50,425 --> 00:16:54,024 know? And maybe it's 5 years, maybe it's 7. I don't know. But it's like 276 00:16:54,024 --> 00:16:57,470 there is this future goal where I'm not 277 00:16:58,250 --> 00:17:02,089 the person with all the tactical knowledge, and maybe I make 278 00:17:02,089 --> 00:17:05,710 an exit out of my agency and I'm not offering services anymore. 279 00:17:05,770 --> 00:17:09,309 Or for me, it's more about the conversation in the community. 280 00:17:10,095 --> 00:17:13,694 That's where I'm headed, but I have no freaking clue how to get 281 00:17:13,694 --> 00:17:16,974 there. So that's part of where I'm like, I don't know. We're just gonna try 282 00:17:16,974 --> 00:17:20,575 a bunch of stuff. And, also, I'm having a baby, so this 283 00:17:20,575 --> 00:17:24,380 timeline is delayed because of that as well because I am very 284 00:17:24,380 --> 00:17:27,819 consciously choosing to spend time with my kids at this moment in my 285 00:17:27,819 --> 00:17:31,419 life. So that's kind of like the future vision is more maybe 286 00:17:31,419 --> 00:17:35,100 facilitated conversations. I would love to be, like, a 287 00:17:35,100 --> 00:17:38,835 panel host. Like, let's bring people together and talk about this. 288 00:17:38,995 --> 00:17:42,835 The podcast plays a huge piece into this. I have always said 289 00:17:42,835 --> 00:17:46,515 I wanted to be more like the Oprah of marketing, where it's 290 00:17:46,515 --> 00:17:49,395 like, I don't wanna have all of the ideas, but I'd love to be able 291 00:17:49,395 --> 00:17:53,029 to shine a light on the people who do. And so that's the 292 00:17:53,029 --> 00:17:56,549 future goal. Well, I think what's interesting is, you know, you were talking about this, 293 00:17:56,549 --> 00:18:00,149 and I think someone we both know, Avery Schwartz, has done a really good job 294 00:18:00,149 --> 00:18:03,610 of being like a go to facilitator, being an expert, 295 00:18:04,390 --> 00:18:07,825 amazing community builder. I really see that 296 00:18:07,825 --> 00:18:11,205 as very aligned for you. Yes. 297 00:18:11,424 --> 00:18:15,105 Avery's a great example of that. I think that's exactly the 298 00:18:15,105 --> 00:18:18,865 direction I'd wanna go. It's, like, let's bring the smart people together. And I 299 00:18:18,865 --> 00:18:22,470 have my own lane in social media, and I still think social media will play 300 00:18:22,470 --> 00:18:26,090 a huge part in this. And it's definitely 301 00:18:26,150 --> 00:18:29,910 one piece of the marketing puzzle. But for now, for today, I 302 00:18:29,910 --> 00:18:33,370 mean, the biggest change I'm making is I'm changing the name of my podcast. 303 00:18:33,830 --> 00:18:37,665 Oh, that's exciting. Yes. So the podcast is 304 00:18:37,665 --> 00:18:41,185 called the Savvy Social Podcast. And, again, people have an 305 00:18:41,185 --> 00:18:44,885 assumption about what it's about. Yes. And I do talk about tactics. 306 00:18:45,425 --> 00:18:49,125 I've already been over the past 2 to 3 years moving more towards 307 00:18:49,740 --> 00:18:53,580 the conceptual topics, more towards, like, why are we 308 00:18:53,580 --> 00:18:57,420 even doing this in the first place kind of thing. And so the podcast 309 00:18:57,420 --> 00:19:01,180 will be renamed to the Mindful Marketing Podcast, if it hasn't 310 00:19:01,180 --> 00:19:04,675 been already by the time this episode comes out. We have a little bit of 311 00:19:04,675 --> 00:19:08,435 insider knowledge. Yes. So mindful 312 00:19:08,435 --> 00:19:11,735 marketing, I've owned the domains, and I have several 313 00:19:12,035 --> 00:19:15,715 ideas about what to do with this concept. I've owned the domains for 4 314 00:19:15,715 --> 00:19:19,480 years. Oh, wow. Okay. So this is this is evolution's been 315 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:23,180 like you're moving real. Like, you were like, I have an idea, 316 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:27,500 but how does this become a thing? And I think that we so glorify 317 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,920 the I had an idea on Friday, bought the domain on Saturday, launched it on 318 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,705 Monday when that's not the reality. No. It's not the reality. I own 319 00:19:34,705 --> 00:19:38,165 mindful marketing mastermind, mindful marketing marketing 320 00:19:38,225 --> 00:19:41,845 hub, school, academy. Like, I I just own this mindful marketing 321 00:19:42,065 --> 00:19:45,799 name. I own a lot of domains, basically, and I have a 322 00:19:45,799 --> 00:19:49,400 search in my, Google Keep notes as I was exploring this, and I was like, 323 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,700 I've been making little notes about this since 2019. 324 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:57,240 I love it. And and just, like, so everybody knows, I bought the domain b 325 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,760 s free business a bazillion years ago, but it took 326 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:04,255 me so long to realize, like, oh, that's actually your brand, 327 00:20:04,255 --> 00:20:07,934 Maggie. Mhmm. Yep. And, you know, I 328 00:20:07,934 --> 00:20:11,375 hesitated so much in switching it because it felt too 329 00:20:11,375 --> 00:20:14,840 soft. It felt too it didn't feel 330 00:20:14,980 --> 00:20:18,500 like what people actually wanted. And if I look at my 331 00:20:18,500 --> 00:20:22,260 stats, my data, that proves it to be true. Like, my 332 00:20:22,260 --> 00:20:25,780 most watched YouTube videos, my most watched Instagram reels, they're they're 333 00:20:25,780 --> 00:20:29,505 usually always very tactically driven. And so I've stayed 334 00:20:29,505 --> 00:20:32,385 in that lane for so long because I look at the data, and I'm like, 335 00:20:32,385 --> 00:20:36,065 well, that's what people wanna hear. But I'm tired of talking about it. And 336 00:20:36,065 --> 00:20:39,585 so part of this is, like, I may lose my 337 00:20:39,585 --> 00:20:43,400 bragging rights of saying I'm in the top 100 podcasts. I may not get 338 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:47,000 win awards for the podcast anymore or anything like that. And I'm at the point 339 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,760 now where I'm beyond caring because I wanna have the conversations I wanna 340 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:54,299 have, and it fits in line with my now clearer 341 00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:57,855 future vision of where I wanna go in my business, which isn't tactically 342 00:20:57,855 --> 00:21:01,615 focused. I love it. Okay. So you mentioned 343 00:21:01,615 --> 00:21:05,295 the agency and, you know, maybe a potential exit, but in the time I've 344 00:21:05,295 --> 00:21:08,735 known you, like, I watched you go from solo business owner to agency 345 00:21:08,735 --> 00:21:12,539 owner. And this is something a lot of people that are listening, they do struggle 346 00:21:12,539 --> 00:21:16,299 with, like, should I have an agency? Should I stay solo? Can you talk a 347 00:21:16,299 --> 00:21:20,000 little bit about what that journey was like for you of really going from, 348 00:21:20,139 --> 00:21:23,679 I am a solo social media person to 349 00:21:23,740 --> 00:21:27,554 having that team and stepping into leadership? You know, 350 00:21:27,554 --> 00:21:31,315 I called myself a freelancer who just happens to have a team for so 351 00:21:31,315 --> 00:21:35,155 long. I did not use the word agency because I personally still don't 352 00:21:35,155 --> 00:21:38,595 like the name, the word. I don't know if it really describes what we 353 00:21:38,595 --> 00:21:41,950 do. Again, I there's, like, that dissonance there. 354 00:21:41,950 --> 00:21:45,790 But I hired my first team member because I tried to go on 355 00:21:45,790 --> 00:21:49,550 vacation, and I was so freaking stressed out because social media doesn't 356 00:21:49,550 --> 00:21:53,175 stop. And I wasn't sure if our, like, scheduled posts were gonna go out. Or 357 00:21:53,255 --> 00:21:56,695 what if someone, like, left a comment and there was no response for a week? 358 00:21:56,695 --> 00:22:00,295 So I really started out of, like, necessity. Like, I wanna go on a 359 00:22:00,295 --> 00:22:04,135 vacation and have someone cover my back. Like, this 360 00:22:04,135 --> 00:22:07,140 is where this all started. And then this was 361 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:11,280 2015 when I hired my first person, so just a year into 362 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,960 business. And then I started building out a team, still calling myself a 363 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,800 freelancer who just happens to have a team, although Resisting in the 364 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,425 title. Existing all the way to 2019. And then I started owning the 365 00:22:22,425 --> 00:22:25,965 word agency. And that journey 366 00:22:26,105 --> 00:22:29,705 was really challenging for me, the hiring the team part, because it's 367 00:22:29,705 --> 00:22:33,245 really hard to find good people to do virtual work. 368 00:22:33,570 --> 00:22:36,950 I really struggled with that. My leadership skills desperately 369 00:22:37,490 --> 00:22:41,269 needed help. I was not a great leader in those early days. 370 00:22:41,570 --> 00:22:45,090 And so the journey has been bumpy. I'm very 371 00:22:45,090 --> 00:22:48,905 glad now though that I went through it because I can be more 372 00:22:48,905 --> 00:22:52,605 hands off. There's not an expectation of me to be more present, 373 00:22:52,905 --> 00:22:56,585 especially now that I have kids. My team handles all of our 374 00:22:56,585 --> 00:23:00,265 client calls, all of our client communication. I get to focus on high 375 00:23:00,265 --> 00:23:03,810 level strategy, and they do all of the implementation. And so 376 00:23:03,810 --> 00:23:07,330 for this stage of my life, I am very happy that I have a 377 00:23:07,330 --> 00:23:10,870 agency because if I had a freelancer model, it'd be very challenging 378 00:23:12,210 --> 00:23:15,590 to take 3 months off to, like, have a baby. 379 00:23:15,934 --> 00:23:19,535 And so that yeah. But that journey was like, o m g, so hard, so 380 00:23:19,535 --> 00:23:23,215 hard. So I understand why people stay, you know, freelancer and and don't shift 381 00:23:23,215 --> 00:23:26,815 into agency mode. Well, I think something you said about the social 382 00:23:26,815 --> 00:23:29,934 media, like, every time I have had a client who 383 00:23:30,550 --> 00:23:34,150 social media is a big part social media management ongoing, it 384 00:23:34,150 --> 00:23:37,910 never ends. How do I leave? Mhmm. I mean, if I was doing social 385 00:23:37,910 --> 00:23:41,270 media at all, I would 100% need, like, a team of people. Otherwise, I would 386 00:23:41,270 --> 00:23:44,885 lose my mind. Yeah. And it's so repetitive too. I 387 00:23:44,885 --> 00:23:48,665 mean, even just think about your own marketing for anyone listening. 388 00:23:48,805 --> 00:23:52,265 It's like you post every day forever. 389 00:23:52,565 --> 00:23:56,400 It's like doing laundry. You just there's always more laundry to do. Now do 390 00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,100 someone else's laundry? It's like, ew. No. Having 391 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,400 having the team helps break that apart a little bit so that you 392 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,000 can at least maybe do the part that you enjoy a little bit more, and 393 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,675 there's less pressure on everyone to show up every day all the 394 00:24:11,675 --> 00:24:15,515 time. True confession about my social media. I'm more organized 395 00:24:15,515 --> 00:24:19,195 about my laundry. I have an entire, like, schedule and system. Social 396 00:24:19,195 --> 00:24:22,955 media, I'm out here, like, just winging it. Yeah. And see 397 00:24:23,195 --> 00:24:26,850 wait. So, Maggie, these are the conversations I wanna have. I feel like that 398 00:24:26,850 --> 00:24:30,690 confession that you made is literally what half of the people do. And nobody 399 00:24:30,690 --> 00:24:34,210 wants to talk about it because all the social media strategies say you gotta have 400 00:24:34,210 --> 00:24:37,125 a schedule. You gotta do this, that, do that. And I'm like, but what if, 401 00:24:37,125 --> 00:24:40,965 like, just winging it is the plan? Like, what if that winging it works for 402 00:24:40,965 --> 00:24:44,645 you? I think that's great. I love it. Winging it does 403 00:24:44,725 --> 00:24:47,925 like, if I had a client on the agency side who was trying to do 404 00:24:47,925 --> 00:24:51,500 their content, like winging it, I would be losing my mind. I would be 405 00:24:51,500 --> 00:24:54,560 like, what's wrong with you? We can't do this. But for me, 406 00:24:55,340 --> 00:24:58,940 so much of what I'm doing is commentary. So it needs to be timely. So 407 00:24:58,940 --> 00:25:02,684 if I did one of these, oh, my biggest pet peeve, write a year of 408 00:25:02,684 --> 00:25:06,445 social media post with AI in an hour things, it 409 00:25:06,445 --> 00:25:10,125 would be flaming hot garbage and 410 00:25:10,125 --> 00:25:13,965 totally irrelevant. It would not be doing what I need my 411 00:25:13,965 --> 00:25:17,410 social media to do. It would not support my business. It would just be 412 00:25:17,410 --> 00:25:21,170 noise. Yes. A 100%. And I think 413 00:25:21,170 --> 00:25:24,930 this is where this nuance of conversation is that I wanna have 414 00:25:24,930 --> 00:25:28,530 is that there are certain types of business owners that were, like, 415 00:25:28,530 --> 00:25:32,335 the reactionary, the commentary content. That 416 00:25:32,335 --> 00:25:36,015 is the content. And it to me, it's actually easier to make. It's easier to 417 00:25:36,015 --> 00:25:39,775 make because you don't have to plan it. You just have to be observant and 418 00:25:39,775 --> 00:25:43,535 then say what you're gonna say anyways. And in case anyone's wondering, in 419 00:25:43,535 --> 00:25:47,295 human design, I am indeed a generator. I need to react to 420 00:25:47,295 --> 00:25:50,790 things. And I mean, it doesn't mean I react in the moment, but I 421 00:25:50,790 --> 00:25:54,230 observe, I look at patterns, and then I'm like, okay, 422 00:25:54,230 --> 00:25:57,930 interesting. There's this pattern of people talking about descaling 423 00:25:57,990 --> 00:26:00,950 their business. What does that mean? Let me analyze it. I'm going to research it. 424 00:26:00,950 --> 00:26:04,505 Like, it's thought out, but, I mean, I do need time. I can't do it 425 00:26:04,505 --> 00:26:07,465 a year ahead. I just can't. I can't even do it 6 months ahead. I 426 00:26:07,465 --> 00:26:10,745 have a loose plan of what I'm gonna talk about, but it always changes. Yeah. 427 00:26:10,745 --> 00:26:14,585 And, see, I'm the opposite. Like, I can do some reactionary content, but I 428 00:26:14,585 --> 00:26:18,060 find it very exhausting. And so I have to wait for the moments 429 00:26:18,060 --> 00:26:21,820 where I feel energized, and then I batch create a bunch of content, and then 430 00:26:21,820 --> 00:26:25,360 I don't create content again for, like, another month. And so 431 00:26:25,500 --> 00:26:29,260 that's what works for me. And so, you know, finding what 432 00:26:29,260 --> 00:26:32,775 works for you, I think, is a beautiful thing. Exactly. Like, I don't know. I'm 433 00:26:32,775 --> 00:26:36,375 supposed to post on social media today. Like, I have a couple 434 00:26:36,375 --> 00:26:38,934 posts. I don't know which one I'll post. We'll see in a few hours what 435 00:26:38,934 --> 00:26:42,534 comes out. So you did 436 00:26:42,534 --> 00:26:46,215 mention, you know, kind of it's come up throughout the the interview. You said, you 437 00:26:46,215 --> 00:26:50,010 know, how you're thinking about social media is really evolving. So 438 00:26:50,010 --> 00:26:53,050 can you share a little more of kind of what you're thinking about? Because I 439 00:26:53,050 --> 00:26:56,810 know we're all kind of feeling this. We love social media, but we hate 440 00:26:56,810 --> 00:27:00,330 it too. Like, I feel like our relationship is a situationship at this 441 00:27:00,330 --> 00:27:04,144 point. Yeah. The situationship thing is solely true. I think I 442 00:27:04,144 --> 00:27:07,904 was talking about situationships and workshops, like, 5 years ago 443 00:27:07,904 --> 00:27:11,745 too. Like, I've been Yeah. It's just a feeling we have. It goes back 444 00:27:11,745 --> 00:27:14,885 to, like, the history of social media. 445 00:27:15,370 --> 00:27:18,970 Bear with me for a sec. But, like, 10, 15 years ago, we 446 00:27:18,970 --> 00:27:22,490 were not on our phones this much. No. We were 447 00:27:22,490 --> 00:27:26,010 not consuming this much content. Even if we wanted to watch 448 00:27:26,010 --> 00:27:29,845 Netflix, we'd have to order the DVDs and they were mailed to us. Unless 449 00:27:29,845 --> 00:27:32,644 you're in Canada. I think my Canadian friends, we missed out on that. But not 450 00:27:32,644 --> 00:27:35,924 when I lived in the US. Like, it was not a thing. Right? We weren't 451 00:27:35,924 --> 00:27:39,225 spending this much time digitally consuming content. And so 452 00:27:39,524 --> 00:27:43,125 fast forward to today, we consume so much content 453 00:27:43,125 --> 00:27:46,940 online from streaming services all the way to, 454 00:27:46,940 --> 00:27:50,593 like, watching TikTok series to 455 00:27:50,860 --> 00:27:54,380 like an edit. Yeah. And to, like, scrolling through 456 00:27:54,380 --> 00:27:57,419 threads or Facebook or whatever. Like, we just spend a lot of time on our 457 00:27:57,419 --> 00:28:01,165 devices. So then combine that with the 458 00:28:01,165 --> 00:28:04,304 amount of content we're consuming and how 459 00:28:04,525 --> 00:28:08,285 particular we can be about it, it's reflecting back on 460 00:28:08,285 --> 00:28:12,045 us as content creators in a sense. As business owners, we're 461 00:28:12,045 --> 00:28:15,590 creating content. We feel like our content doesn't 462 00:28:15,590 --> 00:28:19,429 match what's happening, and so we we try so hard 463 00:28:19,429 --> 00:28:23,190 to, like, be something that we're not. And then combine that with 464 00:28:23,270 --> 00:28:26,170 because there's so much content, it's so competitive. 465 00:28:27,115 --> 00:28:30,955 If I had a decision right now to pick up my phone and watch a 466 00:28:30,955 --> 00:28:34,735 piece of content, I don't know if I would necessarily go 467 00:28:34,875 --> 00:28:38,635 for the 10 second Instagram reel that says read my caption 468 00:28:38,635 --> 00:28:42,360 for 3 tips on how to blah blah blah blah. Like, that's not 469 00:28:42,740 --> 00:28:46,500 that's not how I'd wanna spend my time. Give me the 470 00:28:46,500 --> 00:28:49,940 drama or give me the, like, highly produced or give me the, 471 00:28:49,940 --> 00:28:53,539 like, person who's making a funny about the state of pop 472 00:28:53,539 --> 00:28:57,355 culture. I, like, I want something a little bit different. And so all 473 00:28:57,355 --> 00:29:01,195 of that combined has made business owners on social media 474 00:29:01,274 --> 00:29:04,875 like, running a business on social media very challenging when it comes to 475 00:29:04,875 --> 00:29:08,475 creating content. So my thoughts around creating content on social 476 00:29:08,475 --> 00:29:12,150 media have changed, and this has been a very slight boiling the 477 00:29:12,150 --> 00:29:15,130 frog situation. Like, it's very been very slow. 478 00:29:15,830 --> 00:29:19,510 And I recognize it's not about the content. And so I'm producing less 479 00:29:19,510 --> 00:29:23,305 content myself. We produce less content for our clients. To me, it's more 480 00:29:23,305 --> 00:29:26,785 about conversation. It's about, like, DMs. It's 481 00:29:26,785 --> 00:29:30,545 about social media being maybe a catalyst. Like, maybe you found someone on 482 00:29:30,545 --> 00:29:33,905 LinkedIn, but then you went to their website, and then you had a Zoom call 483 00:29:33,905 --> 00:29:37,440 with them. And now you're meeting them for coffee. Like, it almost has nothing to 484 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,280 do with LinkedIn itself. LinkedIn was just, like, maybe where you happen to see 485 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:45,040 that person. And so my thoughts on, like, how powerful 486 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,800 social media can be or how much of a difference it can make have changed 487 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,525 because it the content itself is rarely the thing that's gonna 488 00:29:52,525 --> 00:29:56,285 make the huge big deal difference. Instead, it's like the 1 on 489 00:29:56,285 --> 00:30:00,125 1 conversations that have made the biggest difference for myself and for 490 00:30:00,125 --> 00:30:03,585 a lot of my clients. Yeah. And that I mean, I would a 100% 491 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,840 echo that, especially because of some of the content I share. 492 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,519 Like, I have people who literally will not like it because they don't want people 493 00:30:11,519 --> 00:30:15,299 to know they're consuming it. Like, I've had these, but they will DM me. 494 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,605 Absolutely. Like, the and you and I have talked about dark social before, like, dark 495 00:30:19,605 --> 00:30:22,825 social is where the activity is for me. Yep. 496 00:30:23,125 --> 00:30:26,805 Yeah. And even to me, dark social too is becoming so much 497 00:30:26,805 --> 00:30:30,405 broader. Like, around the time we're recording this, a platform like 498 00:30:30,405 --> 00:30:34,039 Substack now has DMs. Is that social media? 499 00:30:34,659 --> 00:30:38,039 So you and I are in a few, like, private communities 500 00:30:38,100 --> 00:30:41,620 together. Is that social media? Like, it it feels very 501 00:30:41,620 --> 00:30:45,434 social. There's there's a feed. There's DMs. There's groups of people 502 00:30:45,434 --> 00:30:49,054 having conversations. We're creating content. We're collaborating. And so, 503 00:30:49,195 --> 00:30:52,495 like, my definition of social media itself is changing, 504 00:30:53,035 --> 00:30:56,875 and I don't wanna be, like, put in a box of, oh, you talk 505 00:30:56,875 --> 00:31:00,430 about Instagram and TikTok. It's like I mean, that's one 506 00:31:00,430 --> 00:31:04,190 thing that could maybe be helpful, but let's, like, zoom out a little bit and 507 00:31:04,190 --> 00:31:08,030 think about the bigger picture. I love that because for me, I always and I 508 00:31:08,030 --> 00:31:11,790 think this comes from, like, I'm, like, a blogger from way back in the 509 00:31:11,790 --> 00:31:15,495 day. Right? I was at some of the very first conferences 510 00:31:15,495 --> 00:31:19,015 where they were talking about social media when Gary Vee was doing, you 511 00:31:19,015 --> 00:31:22,695 know, wine TV. Yes. And he's on stage, and I, 512 00:31:22,695 --> 00:31:26,460 like, set up my Twitter account. It's, like, 2,007. Right? 513 00:31:26,700 --> 00:31:30,059 So, I mean, I've been at this stuff a long time. So I think for 514 00:31:30,059 --> 00:31:33,520 me, I always has been social media is like an extension 515 00:31:33,740 --> 00:31:37,100 of the content I'm creating on my platform, and I feel like right now we 516 00:31:37,100 --> 00:31:40,914 see a lot of people really struggling with they've been creating for TikTok 517 00:31:40,914 --> 00:31:44,514 or Instagram, and they have not they're not creating that 518 00:31:44,514 --> 00:31:47,794 longer form content. So now they're, like, trying to reverse. I feel like it's a 519 00:31:47,794 --> 00:31:51,554 much harder evolution to go back, you know, from short to long. 520 00:31:51,554 --> 00:31:55,310 I've been I've always done longer form stuff, always. To me. Like, 521 00:31:55,310 --> 00:31:59,070 social media is that amplification. It's not the platform. It's 522 00:31:59,070 --> 00:32:02,910 not the the core of my work and never would be. A 100%. And 523 00:32:02,910 --> 00:32:06,290 I feel like this is where some of my fraud y feelings come from because 524 00:32:06,625 --> 00:32:10,465 my email list has, like is way larger than any social platform. Then we 525 00:32:10,465 --> 00:32:13,205 have, like, 18, 19,000 subscribers. 526 00:32:14,065 --> 00:32:17,125 Podcast, I think on a good month, 15,000 527 00:32:17,424 --> 00:32:21,070 downloads. On a normal month, 8 to 10000. So it's like, 528 00:32:21,070 --> 00:32:24,510 that's more than most of my social media platforms. Like, I am a long 529 00:32:24,510 --> 00:32:28,110 form content. Yeah. And so it's like, part of me is like, I know 530 00:32:28,110 --> 00:32:31,630 social media is my thing. I love social media, and it's 531 00:32:31,630 --> 00:32:35,330 still not in the top 2 of my strongest marketing platforms. 532 00:32:35,390 --> 00:32:38,524 That's email and my podcast. And so You know what's just to interject here, what's 533 00:32:38,524 --> 00:32:40,825 been shocking to me is I actually sent an like, a one question email to 534 00:32:40,825 --> 00:32:44,664 my list as part of my semi positive. Like, so many people find me 535 00:32:44,664 --> 00:32:45,485 from Instagram now. 536 00:32:51,539 --> 00:32:55,380 Yep. That was shocking information. Sorry. Continue. Yeah. 537 00:32:55,380 --> 00:32:58,500 No. It's the same. People do find me on social, and it plays a huge 538 00:32:58,500 --> 00:33:02,279 role in growing my email list and growing my podcast. And 539 00:33:02,835 --> 00:33:06,195 they may also find me from someone else's social. They may find me from a 540 00:33:06,195 --> 00:33:10,034 collaboration. They may find me from this podcast. Like, it just 541 00:33:10,355 --> 00:33:14,034 like, the bigger picture is so important there. 542 00:33:14,034 --> 00:33:17,309 And, like, yeah, social media plays a huge role in that, but it's not the 543 00:33:17,309 --> 00:33:20,990 only role that's available. And and I don't want people to think that that's what 544 00:33:20,990 --> 00:33:24,590 I believe. Yeah. And I think that this is really in the 545 00:33:24,590 --> 00:33:28,029 spirit of, like, evolutions and exits. And I think for everyone 546 00:33:28,029 --> 00:33:31,725 listening, really thinking about for you, is there something you need 547 00:33:31,725 --> 00:33:35,325 to be changing up how you're doing it? And it's okay to evolve and it's 548 00:33:35,325 --> 00:33:38,925 okay to do it slowly, being mindful of your capacity as a service business 549 00:33:38,925 --> 00:33:42,605 owner because you've got client work and other things on the go. And please, we 550 00:33:42,605 --> 00:33:46,230 want you to go have a life. Mindful marketing is what Andrea is all 551 00:33:46,230 --> 00:33:49,909 about. So, like, we want you to be mindful of those things and really thinking 552 00:33:49,909 --> 00:33:52,789 about, like, there is no one size fits all in any of this. And I 553 00:33:52,789 --> 00:33:56,389 think this is why the conversations like this are so so important because at the 554 00:33:56,389 --> 00:34:00,009 end of the day, everyone's kinda got their own path to go on here. 555 00:34:00,255 --> 00:34:03,715 Mhmm. Yeah. And I think, like, if I could 556 00:34:03,855 --> 00:34:07,315 share one good thing that happened in this 557 00:34:07,695 --> 00:34:11,135 very slow pivot, which I'm usually a very fast action 558 00:34:11,135 --> 00:34:14,980 taker. So to be able to to have an idea and, like, wanna 559 00:34:14,980 --> 00:34:18,579 change it, I would have renamed the podcast months ago once I 560 00:34:18,579 --> 00:34:20,980 decided to do it. But I was like, you know what? We're gonna sit with 561 00:34:20,980 --> 00:34:24,420 this for a little while and think out loud. And that thinking out loud series, 562 00:34:24,420 --> 00:34:28,005 I had a client who booked a discovery call, became a client. And then on 563 00:34:28,005 --> 00:34:31,444 their first call with the team, they said, you know what? Your 564 00:34:31,444 --> 00:34:35,125 transparency in that series and they quoted something I said about 565 00:34:35,125 --> 00:34:38,714 being mindful. They were like, that's the reason we decided to work with you. And 566 00:34:38,714 --> 00:34:42,420 I was like, oh, so they came in through a referral. They looked at 567 00:34:42,420 --> 00:34:46,260 my social. They signed up for my email newsletter, and then we're quoting something back 568 00:34:46,260 --> 00:34:50,100 to me. To me, that, like, that's just an example. Like, 569 00:34:50,100 --> 00:34:53,800 this is working. Even though I'm changing things and it's super scary, it's super uncomfy, 570 00:34:54,020 --> 00:34:57,805 I can see that it's working. That is the best example because the 571 00:34:57,805 --> 00:35:01,025 reality is for us as humans, 572 00:35:01,725 --> 00:35:05,485 we want that behind the scenes. We want that transparency. And not 573 00:35:05,485 --> 00:35:09,025 in this celebrity entrepreneur, you know, very, like, curated vulnerability. 574 00:35:09,085 --> 00:35:12,730 Like, we want the real deal, and I think that that was something you were 575 00:35:12,730 --> 00:35:16,089 able to do is, like, hey, I don't have the answers. Like, it's scary to 576 00:35:16,089 --> 00:35:19,530 admit you don't have the answers, but incredibly powerful 577 00:35:19,530 --> 00:35:22,510 because people trust you more when you're being truthful. 578 00:35:23,125 --> 00:35:26,425 Mhmm. Yep. In the world of all these Internet 579 00:35:26,485 --> 00:35:30,325 marketers who promise the moon, I'm like, how what else can I say to 580 00:35:30,325 --> 00:35:32,585 to make sure that I'm not lumped in with those people? 581 00:35:35,079 --> 00:35:38,220 True story. I feel like that is literally my gig on the other hand. 582 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:42,359 Right? That's it. Exactly. It's like, how can we make sure 583 00:35:42,359 --> 00:35:46,200 it's for sure for sure? There's no confusion here. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I am not 584 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,260 one of them, please. No. Absolutely not. 585 00:35:51,215 --> 00:35:54,975 Alright, Andrea. Where can people learn more about your school? I 586 00:35:54,975 --> 00:35:58,735 think that that would be great for some of the listeners, your agency services. Fill 587 00:35:58,735 --> 00:36:02,575 us in. Yes. So my website, onlinedrea.com. That's 588 00:36:02,575 --> 00:36:06,270 d r e a. So onlinedrea.com has everything. And then 589 00:36:06,270 --> 00:36:10,030 check out the podcast, Mindful Marketing Podcast. It's coming 590 00:36:10,030 --> 00:36:13,730 soon. Formerly Savvy Social Podcast. If you put that in, 591 00:36:13,790 --> 00:36:17,390 we SEO ed it. You'll still find us. Those are the 2 places where I 592 00:36:17,390 --> 00:36:21,105 hang out the most. And, yeah, feel free to send me a DM anywhere because 593 00:36:21,105 --> 00:36:24,465 I love conversation. Awesome. Thank you so much, Drea. Thanks, 594 00:36:24,465 --> 00:36:28,305 Maggie. There are so many things that I was furiously 595 00:36:28,305 --> 00:36:31,880 writing notes when I had that conversation with Andrea. But there's 596 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,480 2 things for me that I really just wanna drive 597 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:39,080 home to wrap it up. I love what she said about setting 598 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,840 boundaries and privacy in the digital age. That's since something that's really, really 599 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,675 important to me. And as people always talk about being authentic or vulnerable 600 00:36:46,675 --> 00:36:50,135 online, they feel like they have to perform in a way that is 601 00:36:50,675 --> 00:36:54,515 not in service of their boundaries or their privacy. And I don't want 602 00:36:54,515 --> 00:36:58,135 anyone ever to feel like they have to do those things to be relevant. 603 00:36:58,890 --> 00:37:02,349 The other thing in conjunction with that is she talked about 604 00:37:02,410 --> 00:37:06,170 how we can be transparent and authentic to build 605 00:37:06,170 --> 00:37:08,990 trust with our audience without having to do those things. 606 00:37:09,529 --> 00:37:13,115 We, I think, underestimate how 607 00:37:13,115 --> 00:37:16,795 people can really sniff out the BS. So you 608 00:37:16,795 --> 00:37:20,095 showing up on social media, you showing up from a business perspective 609 00:37:21,035 --> 00:37:24,660 really relies on you keeping it real. And just, you know, 610 00:37:24,660 --> 00:37:28,200 really embracing the BS free way of doing things. 611 00:37:28,579 --> 00:37:32,280 And finally, I did appreciate her candor about 612 00:37:32,420 --> 00:37:36,040 going from a solo business owner to an agency because 613 00:37:36,125 --> 00:37:39,724 of the nature of social media. And I thought that that was a really interesting 614 00:37:39,724 --> 00:37:43,405 part of the discussion. So with that, if you wanna learn more about Andrea and 615 00:37:43,405 --> 00:37:47,244 everything she does, you can find all the links to all her 616 00:37:47,244 --> 00:37:51,085 social media platforms and her school, her website, everything else, 617 00:37:51,085 --> 00:37:53,000 her podcast atbsfreebusiness.com/blog. 618 00:37:55,060 --> 00:37:58,660 I would love to hear from you. What did this spark from you? Hit me 619 00:37:58,660 --> 00:38:02,180 up on Instagram with threads atbsfreebusiness. I love to hear those 620 00:38:02,180 --> 00:38:05,555 takeaways. And as always, please share this 621 00:38:05,615 --> 00:38:09,215 podcast with friends, rate or review us, give us some 622 00:38:09,215 --> 00:38:13,055 love if you've been enjoying listening, because that will help us get in front of 623 00:38:13,055 --> 00:38:16,895 more people. And my theme for 2024 is 624 00:38:16,895 --> 00:38:20,470 amplify. So if you can help me amplify this podcast, I 625 00:38:20,470 --> 00:38:21,930 will very much appreciate.