1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,680 What if for women, marketing is actually turning 2 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:08,440 away the very people that you would love, love, love to work 3 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:12,160 with? In today's episode, I'm going to talk all about why I really 4 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,919 try not to use gendered language in my business and how 5 00:00:15,919 --> 00:00:19,520 you can maybe decide if that is the right path for you or 6 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,240 not. But first, a word from our sponsor. 7 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,520 Riverside is the all in one podcast recording and editing tool 8 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:30,360 that I use for this right here show. I use it to edit not 9 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:34,140 only the audio and it is like Chef's kiss magical, making 10 00:00:34,140 --> 00:00:37,900 the entire process so, so easy. Plus, 11 00:00:38,140 --> 00:00:41,580 I love their Magic AI clips. 12 00:00:41,660 --> 00:00:45,460 Their little AI robot in the background pulls out the most 13 00:00:45,460 --> 00:00:49,260 impactful moments of the episodes without me having to comb through and do 14 00:00:49,260 --> 00:00:52,820 it myself. Resizes them for social media. So those vertical 15 00:00:52,820 --> 00:00:56,500 videos you see on TikTok and Reels, those all come from Magic 16 00:00:56,500 --> 00:01:00,180 AI inside of Riverside. It's literally one click. It spits 17 00:01:00,180 --> 00:01:03,960 out 10 clips. I pick the best one and away I go. Saves me 18 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,640 so much time. If you want to get on the Riverside train, check it out 19 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,120 today, the links in the show notes and make sure to use my code DREA 20 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:14,720 D R E A at checkout to get 15% off your 21 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:18,440 membership. Hi. Hello. Welcome back to another episode of the Mindful 22 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:22,120 Marketing Podcast where I'm all about simpler, smarter marketing for busy, 23 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:25,840 busy people. And when I say busy y', all, I mean busy. 24 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,880 I am nearing the end of my 25 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:33,030 journey as a mom of babies. I am done 26 00:01:33,260 --> 00:01:36,620 having babies. No more babies for me. Literally impossible at this point. 27 00:01:36,940 --> 00:01:40,580 And my youngest is going to daycare, y'. All. I am low key, 28 00:01:40,580 --> 00:01:44,140 sad and also kind of excited. Mixed feelings all around. 29 00:01:44,540 --> 00:01:48,180 But my time is opening back up again. I have got lots of ideas for 30 00:01:48,180 --> 00:01:51,900 the things I want to work on and this is part of it. 31 00:01:52,060 --> 00:01:54,940 Talking more about kind of like the 32 00:01:55,180 --> 00:01:59,020 inclusionary language or excluding language we use in our marketing 33 00:01:59,180 --> 00:02:02,940 and really digging into diversity equity inclusion topics. 34 00:02:03,340 --> 00:02:06,880 I got certified as a diversity equity inclusion business 35 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,640 owner and marketer back in 2021. And so it's 36 00:02:10,640 --> 00:02:14,360 a lot of things that I kind of apply and implement in my business 37 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,560 just naturally. And now I want to talk more about why that is. 38 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,120 So let's take you back in the day. I started my business in 2014 39 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,880 and even back then when I started my business I never 40 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,720 said I am a social media manager for women. 41 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:33,080 Okay? I my entire brand was pink, y'. All. Like 42 00:02:33,750 --> 00:02:37,350 totally pink. Very feminine coded, fem coded and 43 00:02:37,590 --> 00:02:41,270 but even back then I never said for women because I worked with 44 00:02:41,510 --> 00:02:45,110 all genders and it kind of felt like 45 00:02:45,270 --> 00:02:48,470 something I was doing back then that didn't really. I didn't really have the words 46 00:02:48,470 --> 00:02:52,230 to explain it because it was definitely different from my 47 00:02:52,230 --> 00:02:56,070 peers. A lot of my peers were marketing themselves as, you know, 48 00:02:56,070 --> 00:02:59,510 a coach for women or a therapist for women 49 00:02:59,990 --> 00:03:03,750 or even, you know, a lot of, you know, that's 50 00:03:03,750 --> 00:03:07,570 when a lot of gems and fitness centers were rising in population and they 51 00:03:08,290 --> 00:03:11,490 popularity. Sorry. And they would market themselves as for women. 52 00:03:11,890 --> 00:03:15,410 And so it's a very popular thing to do. There's a lot of women business 53 00:03:15,410 --> 00:03:18,850 groups and things that I was joining, but I just couldn't 54 00:03:19,410 --> 00:03:23,210 bring myself to market my business as for women. 55 00:03:23,210 --> 00:03:27,050 And it wasn't until, I think this was around 2020. So before I 56 00:03:27,050 --> 00:03:30,770 got my certification, one of my business friends, Liz 57 00:03:30,770 --> 00:03:34,570 Goddard, posted something on social media about gendered marketing. 58 00:03:34,570 --> 00:03:38,320 And it really clicked for me because the way that 59 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:40,560 she explained it, and I tried to go back and look at the post, y', 60 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,400 all, but there are too many posts. But the way for my. From 61 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,680 my memory, the way that she explained it was that when you market your 62 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:51,240 businesses for women, you're actually excluding everyone 63 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:55,040 else. When really what you're saying is you don't want straight 64 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,360 men. It's real. Like, when people are marketing their 65 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:02,160 businesses for women, a lot of times they're trying to send this 66 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,910 signal out about who they don't want. And they really may be including 67 00:04:06,390 --> 00:04:10,150 all sorts of identifications in that 68 00:04:10,150 --> 00:04:13,950 process, like all sorts of people that they actually would like to work 69 00:04:13,950 --> 00:04:17,110 with. They just don't have the words to explain that. 70 00:04:17,750 --> 00:04:21,590 So I want to talk about how to navigate that. How I've navigated that, really, 71 00:04:21,590 --> 00:04:25,390 over the years. But before I get into that, I do have to frame this 72 00:04:25,390 --> 00:04:29,190 episode with a bit of a disclaimer, 73 00:04:29,190 --> 00:04:32,890 because this is not like, I want to cancel you party. This is 74 00:04:32,890 --> 00:04:36,650 not a, like, you're doing it wrong kind of scenario. This 75 00:04:36,650 --> 00:04:40,410 is really a question, an exploration, if you will, an 76 00:04:40,410 --> 00:04:44,250 invitation to think about things a little bit deeper, to 77 00:04:44,250 --> 00:04:48,050 think about things a little bit more exploratory. You know, I 78 00:04:48,050 --> 00:04:51,850 want to invite people in. Yes. To our spaces, But I 79 00:04:51,850 --> 00:04:55,170 also want to make sure we're very careful about the words that we use. 80 00:04:55,570 --> 00:04:59,250 And I also want to say, I do not get this perfect. There are 81 00:04:59,250 --> 00:05:02,760 certain words that I know are insensitive, and I am 82 00:05:02,910 --> 00:05:06,310 actively trying to erase them from my language, and they still pop out 83 00:05:06,310 --> 00:05:10,070 sometimes. I have talked about this on this podcast before, but I 84 00:05:10,070 --> 00:05:13,230 love a good y' all moment. But when I used to Say, 85 00:05:13,710 --> 00:05:17,310 address a group of people. I would say, hey, guys. Hey guys. 86 00:05:17,310 --> 00:05:21,070 What's up? It is in my lexicon. I've been saying 87 00:05:21,070 --> 00:05:24,790 it that way for 30 years. So at the ripe 88 00:05:24,790 --> 00:05:28,350 old age of 35, sometimes this old dog is hard to learn new 89 00:05:28,350 --> 00:05:31,870 tricks. And so sometimes the hey guys slips out. 90 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,600 I've been focusing in on y' alls and folks and friends, 91 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,920 so that has been great journey for me. But the other one that I really 92 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,840 struggle with is saying the word crazy. Like, that's so crazy. I 93 00:05:43,840 --> 00:05:47,680 used to say that all the time. It's insensitive. So now I'm like, that's 94 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,400 wild. Thank you, Bob the Drag Queen for those 95 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,800 words. But it really is for me, 96 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,960 a signal, an invitation to invite people into 97 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,600 the conversation. And instead of excluding the very 98 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:06,120 people that I want to feel welcomed in my space. 99 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,920 Okay, so let's start off with a few statistics, 100 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,680 because this isn't just me sharing my opinion. 101 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,600 It's really kind of how we're shifting as a culture as well. 102 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:21,080 So 64% of consumers take action after seeing 103 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,360 inclusive marketing. And it's even higher for my 104 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:27,800 LGBTQ2s + community and 105 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:31,640 marginalized groups, like, for example, I am a black woman 106 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:35,220 running a business. So when we use inclusive 107 00:06:35,220 --> 00:06:38,940 marketing, consumers, those are the people who purchase your 108 00:06:38,940 --> 00:06:42,420 products. It sends a signal out to them that they can 109 00:06:42,900 --> 00:06:46,740 purchase and feel comfortable. 64%. 110 00:06:47,140 --> 00:06:50,740 Okay, 64%. This is increasing over 111 00:06:50,740 --> 00:06:53,300 time, especially with the younger generations, 112 00:06:54,260 --> 00:06:57,540 Gen Z, Gen Z and below really 113 00:06:58,180 --> 00:07:01,980 put their buying dollars behind brands that they feel have 114 00:07:01,980 --> 00:07:05,600 the same values as them. And inclusive 115 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,800 intentionally and not just, you know, checking off a 116 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,320 box is something that's very important to them. 117 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,040 Another stat is inclusive marketing leads to 118 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,440 3.5% higher short term sales and 119 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:23,280 15% higher loyalty. And I will have all of the links in the show 120 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,800 notes for the the data points and the references that I use 121 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,560 in this episode. Because there's a ton of stats in here that's in 122 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:34,240 the show notes. You can find it on online dre.com when I 123 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,990 think about the buying power, like if we want to be objective, 124 00:07:38,390 --> 00:07:41,590 it's like we're as a culture, as a community, 125 00:07:41,910 --> 00:07:45,670 moving this direction just naturally. And so if we 126 00:07:45,670 --> 00:07:48,510 want to kind of take the feelings out of it and focus on the facts, 127 00:07:48,510 --> 00:07:52,310 that's where we are. People buy from brands that they feel 128 00:07:52,310 --> 00:07:55,990 are aligned with their values. And when you say, for instance, 129 00:07:56,470 --> 00:08:00,230 that you are a web designer for women, you 130 00:08:00,230 --> 00:08:03,870 may be excluding non binary people, you may 131 00:08:03,870 --> 00:08:06,950 be excluding trans people, you may be 132 00:08:07,170 --> 00:08:11,010 excluding gender Fluid people. And if 133 00:08:11,010 --> 00:08:14,730 that is your intention, go off says, that's for you. But 134 00:08:14,730 --> 00:08:18,290 if that is not your intention, you may want to take a look 135 00:08:18,290 --> 00:08:21,970 at your language there and see who you are 136 00:08:21,970 --> 00:08:25,570 excluding. Okay. Another thing to 137 00:08:25,730 --> 00:08:29,410 think about is that 61% of consumers say they'll stop buying 138 00:08:29,410 --> 00:08:33,139 from a brand when they feel excluded. Okay. When 139 00:08:33,139 --> 00:08:36,939 they feel excluded. And I struggle with this just from like a 140 00:08:36,939 --> 00:08:40,299 black woman standpoint, sometimes 141 00:08:40,939 --> 00:08:44,619 there are brands that feel like they're not marketed to me. And I don't know 142 00:08:44,619 --> 00:08:48,379 if they know this, but sometimes when I look at the way 143 00:08:48,379 --> 00:08:51,579 that they use photos, the way that they 144 00:08:51,819 --> 00:08:55,499 choose their words on social media, it feels 145 00:08:55,499 --> 00:08:59,059 like they're marketing to, for example, white 146 00:08:59,059 --> 00:09:02,539 women. And I go, I don't know if this brand is 147 00:09:02,539 --> 00:09:06,320 for me or not. Right. And so I will not purchase from 148 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:10,040 a brand based on that as well. And I'm not alone. 61% of 149 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:13,400 consumers say that when they feel excluded, they don't want to buy from that brand. 150 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:17,320 So the tldr of this is that in some cases, 151 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:21,120 saying for women might help you feel specific enough 152 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,720 to include people, but it also might be quietly 153 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:28,440 closing the door on the people who would have walked through it. So 154 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,640 if you're using inclusive language to be strategic. 155 00:09:32,410 --> 00:09:35,050 Absolutely. For example, I mentioned earlier the gyms. 156 00:09:36,010 --> 00:09:39,690 Women feel safer in women only gyms. That 157 00:09:39,690 --> 00:09:43,530 study has actually been proved. Okay? So if you're saying you are a 158 00:09:43,530 --> 00:09:47,250 gym, a fitness center for women, that can actually help you 159 00:09:47,250 --> 00:09:51,050 more that it could hurt you. If you are a web designer, though, 160 00:09:51,050 --> 00:09:54,890 saying you're a web designer for women, I do want you to think about 161 00:09:54,890 --> 00:09:58,690 why you're using those terms. And if you are inviting in a 162 00:09:58,690 --> 00:10:02,400 certain group of people or if you are excluding other people who 163 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,480 you would potentially have worked with anyways. Now, 164 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,400 I said in 2014 that I 165 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:13,600 chose not to use gendered language. And I really struggled with why that 166 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:17,320 is. And it. And thinking back on it, it's because I like working 167 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:20,760 with all genders and I like working 168 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:24,800 with a variety of people, men included. One 169 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,880 man in particular who I remember distinctly. 170 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:32,080 He's a celebrity now, y'. All, Brian Michael Smith. You look him up. He's on 171 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,860 Lone Star 900. He is a trans actor. And 172 00:10:35,860 --> 00:10:39,260 I worked with him before he was famous, y'. All. And 173 00:10:39,260 --> 00:10:42,740 he's so cool. Just like the coolest dude ever. 174 00:10:43,380 --> 00:10:47,060 And we worked on this project that was essentially 175 00:10:47,060 --> 00:10:50,780 he was doing a short indie film project that was a 176 00:10:50,780 --> 00:10:54,340 web series about police brutality in America. 177 00:10:55,140 --> 00:10:58,860 This was around 2017, 2018. So very hot 178 00:10:58,860 --> 00:11:02,520 topic. The comment section was, omg, 179 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:06,240 some of the worst comments I've ever seen. Being a social media manager. 180 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,480 But my team and I, we worked on that project. We helped the 181 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:15,120 launch campaigns, we designed the launch campaign. We helped with the initial 182 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,480 launch and all of the nasty comments. We actually did shifts because 183 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,880 after responding to comments for like three hours straight 184 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,440 of people being just absolutely belligerent, 185 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,200 we needed a break. We needed a break. So I remember we, my team and 186 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,120 I, we did shifts and we managed that whole project. 187 00:11:34,140 --> 00:11:37,860 And it's so cool. He gave me an amazing testimonial afterwards. It's on 188 00:11:37,860 --> 00:11:41,660 my website, and anytime I see him pop up in my newsfeed, I'm like, reshare, 189 00:11:41,740 --> 00:11:45,580 because he's so cool. I would not have worked, I 190 00:11:45,580 --> 00:11:49,340 don't think, with Brian Michael Smith if I 191 00:11:49,340 --> 00:11:53,020 had said I was a social media manager for women. Okay? 192 00:11:53,340 --> 00:11:56,380 Probably not now. That being said, 193 00:11:57,020 --> 00:12:00,650 most of my community happens to be 194 00:12:00,650 --> 00:12:04,170 women. Okay. I think because I am a woman, I attract 195 00:12:04,170 --> 00:12:07,850 women clients naturally. Especially as a black woman, I 196 00:12:07,850 --> 00:12:11,490 attract black women clients. I would never say I market 197 00:12:11,650 --> 00:12:15,370 for black women only because Brian Michael Smith is a great example of someone 198 00:12:15,370 --> 00:12:18,730 who is absolutely fantastic to work with. And I don't know if I would work 199 00:12:18,730 --> 00:12:22,090 with him had I had used that exclusionary language in my 200 00:12:22,090 --> 00:12:25,530 marketing. So I work with 201 00:12:25,530 --> 00:12:29,210 humans point blank, period. And I'm very open about 202 00:12:29,210 --> 00:12:32,970 that. And so in my branding, yes, it's 203 00:12:32,970 --> 00:12:36,770 still very femme coded to this day. I don't use my on brand pink 204 00:12:36,770 --> 00:12:40,570 as much because to be honest, y', all, I wear pink a 205 00:12:40,570 --> 00:12:44,250 lot. And so having a pink outfit and pink background was too much pink, 206 00:12:44,250 --> 00:12:46,930 even in this. If y' all aren't watching the video, I have, like a pink 207 00:12:46,930 --> 00:12:49,930 headscarf on right now because pink is my color. 208 00:12:51,050 --> 00:12:54,210 However, I don't need pink in my branding, so I actually went with, like, a 209 00:12:54,210 --> 00:12:58,000 more jewel tone. I have, like a gold tone that I use 210 00:12:58,230 --> 00:13:02,030 a lot in this, like, deep teal color and like a 211 00:13:02,030 --> 00:13:05,670 deep maroon color. Things that go really well with my skin go really well with 212 00:13:05,670 --> 00:13:09,390 me as a background or so me in the foreground, those colors in the 213 00:13:09,390 --> 00:13:13,070 background. And so I chose my brand colors to 214 00:13:13,070 --> 00:13:16,830 highlight my natural characteristics. I, in the way that 215 00:13:16,830 --> 00:13:20,630 I talk is very fem coded. My 216 00:13:20,630 --> 00:13:24,470 clients, again, do tend to be mostly women. However, even 217 00:13:24,470 --> 00:13:28,230 the men that I work with tend to be very open, shall 218 00:13:28,230 --> 00:13:31,890 I say? Like, I'm thinking of my one client client who was a fitness 219 00:13:31,890 --> 00:13:35,650 instructor, and he was a 220 00:13:35,650 --> 00:13:39,290 great client. Most of his brand was marketed 221 00:13:39,290 --> 00:13:43,130 towards women. He owned a company. Actually, I would say it was pretty about, probably 222 00:13:43,130 --> 00:13:46,810 pretty even men and women. And I wouldn't have worked with him. Got an 223 00:13:46,810 --> 00:13:50,330 amazing testimonial. Again, if I had marketed 224 00:13:50,330 --> 00:13:53,730 myself as a social media agency for women or social media manager for women. 225 00:13:54,210 --> 00:13:57,850 So I think I want to challenge you all to think about that in your 226 00:13:57,850 --> 00:14:01,570 business. What are you actually trying to say when you add 227 00:14:01,570 --> 00:14:05,290 the for women to a tagline when you're 228 00:14:05,290 --> 00:14:09,010 trying to describe your business? Okay, now 229 00:14:09,650 --> 00:14:13,010 there, here's some more stats about this, because the 230 00:14:13,010 --> 00:14:14,930 4Women branding is actually. 231 00:14:17,010 --> 00:14:20,130 I don't know if declining is the right word, but 232 00:14:20,370 --> 00:14:23,930 it's definitely shifting. So back in my 233 00:14:23,930 --> 00:14:27,410 day, let's say between 2010 and 2020, 234 00:14:27,890 --> 00:14:31,630 it was like girl boss central. I do think that there is a time and 235 00:14:31,630 --> 00:14:35,150 a place for this. Again, don't get me wrong, it's a very nuanced conversation. There 236 00:14:35,150 --> 00:14:38,790 is a time and a place for girl boss central because to be honest, 237 00:14:38,790 --> 00:14:42,430 most businesses are owned by men, especially the big men. 238 00:14:42,830 --> 00:14:46,510 Sorry. Especially the big businesses are run 239 00:14:46,510 --> 00:14:50,190 and owned by men. So it feels 240 00:14:50,590 --> 00:14:54,430 quite natural to actually create a space for women, especially 241 00:14:54,670 --> 00:14:58,510 women business owners, women entrepreneurs. Last year, 242 00:14:58,510 --> 00:15:02,250 for instance, I was nominated, for instance, in the women Entrepreneur Business Business 243 00:15:02,250 --> 00:15:06,010 Award here in Niagara region. I was nominated for the 244 00:15:06,010 --> 00:15:09,770 entrepreneurship award. And I do think there is a time and a place 245 00:15:09,770 --> 00:15:13,050 for that. And I think that it honestly feels very 246 00:15:13,130 --> 00:15:16,890 empowering. And so I'm not saying there isn't a time 247 00:15:16,890 --> 00:15:20,170 and a place for that. However, labeling everything. 248 00:15:20,810 --> 00:15:24,010 Hashtag girlboss is on the decline 249 00:15:24,490 --> 00:15:28,130 because some brands kept slapping the four 250 00:15:28,130 --> 00:15:31,730 women on everything instead of doing the actual work of making 251 00:15:31,730 --> 00:15:35,260 it it inclusive. So, for example, there is 252 00:15:35,580 --> 00:15:39,260 a brand y' all may know. Bic. Y' all know the pens. Bic. 253 00:15:39,980 --> 00:15:43,420 They came out with this line of pens that said 254 00:15:43,500 --> 00:15:47,300 pens for her. Okay, I. I hate stuff like 255 00:15:47,300 --> 00:15:51,060 this so much. Pens for her. What's the difference? They're pick and they, 256 00:15:51,060 --> 00:15:54,780 oops. Cost more. Like what? And 257 00:15:54,780 --> 00:15:58,580 so to me, it's like things like that where brands are trying to 258 00:15:58,580 --> 00:16:02,340 market to a specific demographic, demographic of people just by saying pens 259 00:16:02,340 --> 00:16:05,000 for her, pens for. And 260 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:09,640 they tanked. They bombed. They don't exist anymore. Because people, 261 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:13,480 humans were like this. This does not need to be gendered. Right? 262 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,600 It's not something that needs to be gendered. Pink pen. 263 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,880 Men can use pink pens and anybody, any human can use a pink pen. 264 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:24,360 Okay? That doesn't need to be for women and it 265 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,960 definitely doesn't need to be more expensive, AKA the pink 266 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,800 tags. Right. And so when you add four women to your 267 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,560 branding, I want you to think about if it's rooted in purp 268 00:16:36,340 --> 00:16:39,220 or if it's just some sort of stand in where you're like, I want to 269 00:16:39,220 --> 00:16:42,580 work with people like me, okay? This requires 270 00:16:42,580 --> 00:16:46,260 deeper work. So let's talk about what that is. I want you 271 00:16:46,260 --> 00:16:50,020 to think about leading your business with values instead of 272 00:16:50,020 --> 00:16:53,700 labels. It's what I do in my business. I would never start 273 00:16:53,700 --> 00:16:57,300 off by saying all of my labels to someone 274 00:16:57,620 --> 00:17:01,220 hoping that they want to work with me. Because honestly, I 275 00:17:01,220 --> 00:17:04,920 do work with a variety of businesses. For example, 276 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:09,000 I consider myself agnostic. Okay? Religiously, 277 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:12,560 I don't know. I don't know. I'm not saying there's nothing, but I don't know 278 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:16,040 what it is, okay? I'm just a little human here in this great big wide 279 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,760 world. I have no freaking clue. However, I have worked with 280 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,480 clients in the past who are religious and have very strong religious perspectives. 281 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,400 I would never say I only work with people in a certain 282 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:30,600 religious demographic because that doesn't fit my business. 283 00:17:32,010 --> 00:17:35,810 Instead, I lead with values. You know, if a, if 284 00:17:35,810 --> 00:17:39,450 a brand were to come to me, there are certain signals I send out 285 00:17:39,850 --> 00:17:43,530 to help them decide for themselves if they want to work with me. 286 00:17:43,530 --> 00:17:47,050 For instance, right now in my Instagram bio, there's a rainbow flag. 287 00:17:47,130 --> 00:17:50,570 Intentionally, if that bothers you, we aren't going to be friends. 288 00:17:51,370 --> 00:17:55,170 I put my pronouns in my email signature and 289 00:17:55,170 --> 00:17:59,010 they're on my social media. Whenever there's a chance to put them, I put 290 00:17:59,010 --> 00:18:02,630 them though, because if that bothers you, we're not going to work 291 00:18:02,630 --> 00:18:06,390 together. I still. You do this on my application forms as 292 00:18:06,390 --> 00:18:09,910 well. When I'm hiring someone, I still do this. It's 293 00:18:09,910 --> 00:18:13,710 optional, right? You don't have to put it in. But I find that people who 294 00:18:13,710 --> 00:18:16,590 are upset by it always have something to say. 295 00:18:17,550 --> 00:18:20,270 And so when I say, you know, what's your name? If you feel comfortable, what 296 00:18:20,270 --> 00:18:24,110 are your pronouns? They always say like, why do you need to know this 297 00:18:24,110 --> 00:18:27,830 information? If someone doesn't feel comfortable, nine 298 00:18:27,830 --> 00:18:31,070 times out of 10, they just skip it, right? Just skip it and move on. 299 00:18:31,950 --> 00:18:35,790 And then most people put their frickin pronouns just so I can 300 00:18:35,790 --> 00:18:39,510 know how to address you. I even ask for other things, like 301 00:18:39,510 --> 00:18:42,909 how do you pronounce your name? You know, I want to get to know you. 302 00:18:42,909 --> 00:18:46,110 I want to make sure that we are on the same 303 00:18:47,070 --> 00:18:50,910 page here. And if that bothers you, well, we're probably 304 00:18:50,910 --> 00:18:54,550 not going to work well together anyways. Some other things I 305 00:18:54,550 --> 00:18:58,320 do in My marketing is I talk about who 306 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:02,040 I work with without necessarily putting a label 307 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,520 on it. So for example, in this season of my life, I'm a mom. 308 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,880 I've got a three year old and a one year old. I'm busy. The way 309 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:13,680 that I teach marketing has always been we're going 310 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:17,280 to take the shortest path with the highest output because, 311 00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:21,200 yes, you could do all of the things. We don't have time to do that. 312 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,120 Okay, so what is going to get you the most impact in the shortest amount 313 00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:27,900 of time? That's where I'm at. So I use that in my marketing. Marketing that 314 00:19:27,900 --> 00:19:31,340 fits your real life, simpler, smarter marketing for busy people. 315 00:19:32,140 --> 00:19:35,500 I used to talk a lot about being a lifestyle business or being 316 00:19:35,740 --> 00:19:39,420 a heart led business. Some people like that. A soft 317 00:19:39,420 --> 00:19:42,780 space for ambitious entrepreneurs who don't want to burn out. 318 00:19:43,260 --> 00:19:47,060 The people who have no problem posting their Instagram stories 319 00:19:47,060 --> 00:19:50,700 10 times a day, they're not my people. They don't need my 320 00:19:50,700 --> 00:19:54,380 help. The rest of us who are like, I accidentally went two weeks 321 00:19:54,380 --> 00:19:58,080 and I didn't post anything and now I'm panicking because, well, I didn't 322 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,320 post anything for two weeks. What do I say? Y' all are my people. 323 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,640 And so I use that language in my marketing to help describe 324 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,760 my people without excluding 325 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:12,600 necessarily a certain group of people, but really 326 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,640 calling in the people who I really want to work with. Okay. 327 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:19,720 I also use a lot of inclusive languaging 328 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,200 visuals and case studies to show diverse 329 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:27,030 identities and live in experiences. For example, I recently 330 00:20:27,030 --> 00:20:30,790 taught an Instagram Stories masterclass in my membership 331 00:20:31,270 --> 00:20:34,430 at the Mindful Marketing Lab and I'm hosting my Instagram 332 00:20:34,430 --> 00:20:37,110 bootcamp soon. I don't have dates yet. 333 00:20:38,790 --> 00:20:42,390 When I do work like this and I create a 334 00:20:42,390 --> 00:20:46,110 character, I make sure my characters are 335 00:20:46,110 --> 00:20:49,790 diverse. Okay, I used to do Lucy. 336 00:20:49,790 --> 00:20:52,210 Okay, this is Lucy. Here's what she does. 337 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:57,360 Lucy is not as diverse as I am. She's not as 338 00:20:57,360 --> 00:21:00,600 diverse as my people are. So now I use different names. 339 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,960 Kenesha, Aria, and Darius. And I actually had 340 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,760 someone reach out to me afterwards and said, thank you for naming your characters 341 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,440 with diverse names. I can't tell you how many times it's like Brad. 342 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,520 And I'm like, yeah, I do that intentionally because 343 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:20,280 I want to reflect my values in everything that I do. 344 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,410 For some other big brand examples here that I 345 00:21:24,410 --> 00:21:27,730 like learning from. Fenty 346 00:21:27,730 --> 00:21:31,450 Beauty is another example. They, when they 347 00:21:31,450 --> 00:21:35,090 launch, marketed themselves as Beauty for All. They often 348 00:21:35,090 --> 00:21:38,410 use all sorts of people in their marketing, all 349 00:21:38,410 --> 00:21:42,010 genders in their marketing. They have a wide range of 350 00:21:42,010 --> 00:21:45,770 colors and they did $100 million in their first 351 00:21:46,410 --> 00:21:50,130 40 days of launching. Okay, so there's the stats and 352 00:21:50,130 --> 00:21:53,410 facts. One that didn't do so well. 353 00:21:53,410 --> 00:21:57,030 Tarjay. Omg. And they're trying. They are trying 354 00:21:57,190 --> 00:22:01,030 so hard. But they really need to redo their diversity team because 355 00:22:02,070 --> 00:22:05,510 they fumble the ball almost every pride month. And 356 00:22:05,670 --> 00:22:09,110 when they release their pride collections, they're terrible. 357 00:22:09,190 --> 00:22:12,950 It's like. It's like they didn't consult the people that actually 358 00:22:13,750 --> 00:22:17,550 want to purchase their pride paraphernalia, 359 00:22:17,550 --> 00:22:21,190 if you will. And so they fumble the ball 360 00:22:21,270 --> 00:22:25,060 consistently and. And people don't buy them 361 00:22:25,140 --> 00:22:28,780 for that reason. And I can guarantee you there's some big wigs in some 362 00:22:28,780 --> 00:22:32,460 office somewhere that goes, huh, our pride collection isn't selling that well. We tried. 363 00:22:32,460 --> 00:22:35,460 It's not working. It's like, you didn't try hard enough. You didn't try hard enough. 364 00:22:36,820 --> 00:22:40,500 Another brand that I love, though, is Dove. The Dove soap. 365 00:22:40,740 --> 00:22:44,420 I use it exclusively because my skin is very sensitive, like 366 00:22:44,420 --> 00:22:48,260 my emotions. And they very consistently use all 367 00:22:48,260 --> 00:22:51,700 size people in their branding, which I 368 00:22:51,700 --> 00:22:55,400 appreciate and love. And they do a lot 369 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,200 of campaigns around real beauty, so they, you know, oftentimes 370 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,640 showcase what real people can look like. 371 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,560 And now we relate, we associate those 372 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,120 two things. Dove soap, real beauty. Like, they go 373 00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:13,360 together because of their marketing 374 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,760 and they're doing an amazing job, I think, of really 375 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:21,240 establishing a brand identity for what's basically soap. It's. 376 00:23:21,310 --> 00:23:24,830 It's just so right. But they're really 377 00:23:24,990 --> 00:23:28,750 calling in their people. And I 378 00:23:28,750 --> 00:23:32,190 make the choice now intentionally to use the soap because of the way that they're 379 00:23:32,190 --> 00:23:35,950 marketing themselves. So I'm not saying you have to make big, 380 00:23:36,270 --> 00:23:40,110 massive, huge, you know, rebranding changes 381 00:23:40,430 --> 00:23:44,150 to what you're doing in your business. I just want you to ask yourself 382 00:23:44,150 --> 00:23:47,990 a few questions and really understand if you're making an 383 00:23:47,990 --> 00:23:51,790 intentional choice in the language that you're using and know that 384 00:23:51,790 --> 00:23:55,370 this, this is a process. There is no finish 385 00:23:55,370 --> 00:23:58,570 line. Somebody told me recently that I'm too woke and 386 00:23:59,130 --> 00:24:02,930 I will never be woken up. And I was like, I hope not. There's. There's 387 00:24:02,930 --> 00:24:05,610 not like an end point to being 388 00:24:07,130 --> 00:24:10,690 what I think is just a human living in society. I'm 389 00:24:10,690 --> 00:24:14,450 constantly learning, changing, and growing. And I hope you're doing the same. So 390 00:24:14,450 --> 00:24:18,170 a few questions to ask yourself. Do you actually want to only 391 00:24:18,170 --> 00:24:21,800 work with women or do you want to work with some clients who make you 392 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:25,440 feel a certain way? I think this is super important question to ask. For 393 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:29,160 example, are you looking for more feminine clients instead 394 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,120 of just women? Because you could be excluding a whole group of people. 395 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,640 Are you looking for clients who think a little bit differently or 396 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:40,360 have a certain set of emotional regulation skills? 397 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,960 You know, really think about why you're adding that four women label on 398 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,450 there. Next question. Does 399 00:24:48,530 --> 00:24:51,890 your language match your values and your 400 00:24:51,970 --> 00:24:55,810 community's lived experiences? Okay. Your language, 401 00:24:55,890 --> 00:24:59,730 what you're using in your marketing, does it match your 402 00:24:59,730 --> 00:25:03,490 value system? So another one that I struggle with here 403 00:25:03,970 --> 00:25:07,210 is I love to use hey girl. I think I even said it in this 404 00:25:07,210 --> 00:25:10,970 episode. Hey, sis. I have to stop myself from 405 00:25:10,970 --> 00:25:14,810 saying that all the time because it is exclusionary to some people I work 406 00:25:14,810 --> 00:25:18,280 with with, and I don't want them to feel 407 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,960 excluded. So this is something that I'm working on. I have been 408 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,760 replacing it with hey babe, which I love. So, yeah, 409 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,480 that's something that I'm a work in progress on. Next question is, 410 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,400 am I using gender as a shortcut for, like, vibe and 411 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,920 energy? Think about this. Are you trying to cut corners? 412 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,600 Because you're cutting corners could be really 413 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,200 excluding a lot of people. Would someone trans, non, 414 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,700 binary, or gender expansive feel like they've been belong here? 415 00:25:48,180 --> 00:25:51,860 That is a question you have to ask yourself. Because if the answer is 416 00:25:52,420 --> 00:25:56,260 no, like they don't feel like they belong, ask yourself 417 00:25:56,340 --> 00:25:59,900 why, because there are spaces where that. That does need to be 418 00:25:59,900 --> 00:26:03,379 edited. Sure. And if you can't answer that, 419 00:26:03,380 --> 00:26:05,820 it's really time to go back to the drawing board and look at that. And 420 00:26:05,820 --> 00:26:09,380 then lastly, am I excluding folks I love to work with just 421 00:26:09,460 --> 00:26:13,260 by how I've worded things? Okay. Think about 422 00:26:13,260 --> 00:26:15,790 that as well. Okay. My final thoughts on this. 423 00:26:17,060 --> 00:26:20,740 I don't think marketing can be neutral anymore. Okay. I 424 00:26:20,740 --> 00:26:24,500 do not think marketing can be neutral 425 00:26:24,660 --> 00:26:28,260 any longer. Every buying decision we 426 00:26:28,260 --> 00:26:31,140 make in 2025, the year of Beyonce, 427 00:26:32,020 --> 00:26:35,380 is and has to be intentional. 428 00:26:35,380 --> 00:26:39,220 Okay. Will you get it wrong? Absolutely. There are people 429 00:26:39,220 --> 00:26:42,460 all the time that are like, they come to me for marketing consulting and they 430 00:26:42,460 --> 00:26:46,220 say, andrea, I'm hiring you because I don't want to get this wrong. 431 00:26:46,220 --> 00:26:49,720 And my first response is always, well, you still may get it wrong because we're 432 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,360 all learning, right? Your community, every community is unique. 433 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,120 And if you, as long as you're open to 434 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,760 hearing feedback, gathering that feedback and adjusting, 435 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,120 then I promise you, you're going to be a better person by the end 436 00:27:06,120 --> 00:27:09,960 of it. And I know we live in cancel culture. The people 437 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,520 who get canceled usually are getting canceled because they're not listening. 438 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,360 Okay. I have seen numerous times where someone gets called out 439 00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:20,850 or called in on something spec and it's all in how they 440 00:27:20,850 --> 00:27:24,370 respond, which helps mitigate any 441 00:27:24,370 --> 00:27:28,010 backlash. When there's a lack of response, when there's no response, or when the 442 00:27:28,010 --> 00:27:30,850 response is diminishing, belittling, whatever, what have you, 443 00:27:31,810 --> 00:27:35,570 that's when things go off the rails. Okay? So, yes. Does it require work? 444 00:27:35,730 --> 00:27:39,530 Of course it requires work. Everything in business requires work. This just one area 445 00:27:39,530 --> 00:27:42,050 of it. And I encourage you to think about that. 446 00:27:43,090 --> 00:27:46,050 I also want you to think about the difference 447 00:27:46,770 --> 00:27:50,020 of being for women and being 448 00:27:50,420 --> 00:27:54,140 exclusive to women. Okay, so for 449 00:27:54,140 --> 00:27:57,940 women or being inclusive for women, same with 450 00:27:57,940 --> 00:28:01,220 men, same with non binary folks, same with anyone on the gender 451 00:28:01,620 --> 00:28:05,140 spectrum. What is the difference for you, 452 00:28:05,540 --> 00:28:09,300 you personally as a business leader, and then for your business, if 453 00:28:09,300 --> 00:28:13,140 you can't answer that question, you have some journaling, some meditation, talking with your peers 454 00:28:13,140 --> 00:28:16,780 and work to do. Okay? And you can invite your community into this 455 00:28:16,780 --> 00:28:19,910 process as well. Get curious about it as well. 456 00:28:20,780 --> 00:28:24,300 There are certain things that you can do to really open 457 00:28:24,380 --> 00:28:28,180 up that lane of communication. But ultimately, for a lot of 458 00:28:28,180 --> 00:28:31,260 you listening to this podcast, your business 459 00:28:31,980 --> 00:28:35,420 is really your personal values. So your business values are your personal 460 00:28:35,420 --> 00:28:39,260 values. And so you really have to look deep into what your values are 461 00:28:39,500 --> 00:28:43,340 and make sure that they're accurately reflected in your business. All 462 00:28:43,340 --> 00:28:47,100 right. I hope this episode has helped you really think about some things. It's 463 00:28:47,100 --> 00:28:50,770 something that's been on my mind for a while, and it's something that I'm 464 00:28:50,770 --> 00:28:54,530 hoping a lot of people start thinking about more as they create new 465 00:28:54,530 --> 00:28:58,290 offers. I'll be back again next Tuesday with another episode. In the 466 00:28:58,290 --> 00:29:01,810 meantime, make sure you rate and review on Apple podcasts. And Spotify 467 00:29:01,810 --> 00:29:05,090 helps keep us in the top 100 marketing podcasts. And that's all because of your 468 00:29:05,090 --> 00:29:07,490 support. I'll see you next week. Bye for now.