1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,480 Welcome to episode number 335 of the Mindful 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:08,240 Marketing Podcast. Every December, I bring to 3 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:12,000 you episodes of podcasts that I've been featured on as 4 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:15,285 a way to share some of the work that I've been doing all year 5 00:00:15,605 --> 00:00:19,285 and to walk the talk. I don't record new 6 00:00:19,285 --> 00:00:23,045 episodes for this month and instead repurpose ones that I think would be 7 00:00:23,045 --> 00:00:26,805 very helpful for you. And this week, I am thrilled to share an 8 00:00:26,805 --> 00:00:30,539 episode from the ADHD-ish podcast for business owners hosted 9 00:00:30,539 --> 00:00:34,220 by Diann Wingert. I joined Diann to discuss one of my 10 00:00:34,220 --> 00:00:37,980 favorite topics, rethinking the way we use social 11 00:00:37,980 --> 00:00:41,440 media. In this episode, we dive into why chasing audience 12 00:00:41,500 --> 00:00:44,975 growth might be missing the point and how focusing on 13 00:00:44,975 --> 00:00:48,735 meaningful connections can completely transform your social media 14 00:00:48,735 --> 00:00:52,195 strategy and keep your sanity all while doing it. 15 00:00:52,335 --> 00:00:56,115 Diann and I talk about how our personal and professional lives intertwine 16 00:00:56,175 --> 00:00:59,550 with the way that we engage online and why it's okay to leave 17 00:00:59,550 --> 00:01:03,330 platforms that no longer serve you. It's a real and honest conversation 18 00:01:03,390 --> 00:01:06,930 about making social media work for you and on your terms. 19 00:01:07,310 --> 00:01:10,910 But that's not all. Let's tune into this episode for practical 20 00:01:10,910 --> 00:01:14,475 tips, candid reflections, and maybe a little validation if you ever 21 00:01:14,475 --> 00:01:18,235 thought there's gotta be a better way to do this. This is 22 00:01:18,235 --> 00:01:21,695 the ADHD-ish podcast. Let me know your favorite part. 23 00:01:30,850 --> 00:01:34,610 So Andréa, I have been wanting to have this conversation with you for the 24 00:01:34,610 --> 00:01:37,970 longest time because you have been doing social 25 00:01:37,970 --> 00:01:41,409 media, running a social media agency, commenting on social 26 00:01:41,409 --> 00:01:45,215 media, and producing lots and lots of your own content for, I think, 27 00:01:45,215 --> 00:01:48,895 a decade now. But something I've noticed is in the 28 00:01:48,895 --> 00:01:52,735 last couple of years, your perspective has 29 00:01:52,735 --> 00:01:56,350 been evolving. And most of the people 30 00:01:56,350 --> 00:01:59,729 that I follow on social media are still 31 00:01:59,869 --> 00:02:03,310 talking about audience growth, building an 32 00:02:03,310 --> 00:02:07,070 audience, the importance of drawing people to you 33 00:02:07,070 --> 00:02:10,745 and making an audience of them. But you have 34 00:02:10,745 --> 00:02:14,585 evolved into a perspective that if all we're doing 35 00:02:14,585 --> 00:02:18,185 on social media is creating an audience, we're 36 00:02:18,185 --> 00:02:21,645 missing kind of the point. We're missing the opportunity 37 00:02:22,025 --> 00:02:25,670 because there's so much more meaningful 38 00:02:26,370 --> 00:02:29,830 opportunity there that an audience doesn't hit. 39 00:02:30,930 --> 00:02:34,450 Can we talk about that? Yes. This is one of my all time 40 00:02:34,450 --> 00:02:37,935 favorite conversations. So thank you for having me on the show to talk about this. 41 00:02:38,655 --> 00:02:42,415 I actually think a story would work really well here, and it's the story 42 00:02:42,415 --> 00:02:46,095 of how I met my husband. Have I told you this before? This story, and 43 00:02:46,095 --> 00:02:49,855 I am not hearing it again. So I've been doing 44 00:02:49,855 --> 00:02:53,690 this professionally for 10 years, but I've been creating content online 45 00:02:53,690 --> 00:02:57,450 for over 20 years. And one 46 00:02:57,450 --> 00:03:00,750 of my projects was a YouTube channel that I would create. 47 00:03:01,450 --> 00:03:04,944 It was it was kind of like about my life sort of situation. 48 00:03:05,724 --> 00:03:09,564 And I collaborated with my husband on a video. He wasn't my husband 49 00:03:09,564 --> 00:03:13,405 at the time. I was collaborating with a lot of people at the time, and 50 00:03:13,405 --> 00:03:17,245 this to me was the beauty of the Internet. As a very 51 00:03:17,245 --> 00:03:21,080 introverted, quirky, shy gal in 52 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,780 Atlanta, creating videos in my 53 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,840 bedroom, in my mom's house as a, you know, 54 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:32,600 university student, it was a very awkward time for me, 55 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:36,444 and it felt like a very busy a great outlet for me. So fast forward 56 00:03:36,444 --> 00:03:40,064 a few years, I'm creating these content videos. I collaborate with my husband. 57 00:03:40,685 --> 00:03:44,364 We connected. I thought he was hilarious, and then we just kept 58 00:03:44,364 --> 00:03:47,900 talking. And the caveat to all of this is he lived in 59 00:03:47,900 --> 00:03:51,659 Toronto, Canada, and I lived in Atlanta, Georgia. So Mhmm. The power of 60 00:03:51,659 --> 00:03:55,500 the Internet brought us together, and that is the point to me 61 00:03:55,500 --> 00:03:58,939 of social media. And, like, fast forward 10 years later, we 62 00:03:58,939 --> 00:04:02,675 have, one kid with another on the way, and it's 63 00:04:02,735 --> 00:04:05,955 just like such a beautiful thing that came from one conversation 64 00:04:06,975 --> 00:04:10,655 that happened, you know, 11 years ago on 65 00:04:10,735 --> 00:04:13,955 in the social media. So I think the idea 66 00:04:14,175 --> 00:04:17,970 that social media, the result of it is 67 00:04:17,970 --> 00:04:21,810 to build an audience feels almost ego 68 00:04:21,810 --> 00:04:25,570 driven. Whereas the early days of social 69 00:04:25,570 --> 00:04:28,870 media felt more about connecting to one person, 70 00:04:29,565 --> 00:04:33,405 having one conversation. And so that's really what I've leaned 71 00:04:33,405 --> 00:04:36,845 into a lot of in the past couple years. When I think about the value 72 00:04:36,845 --> 00:04:40,685 of social media to me, it's meeting people like you. Right? Like, 73 00:04:40,685 --> 00:04:44,205 you and I met through through Exactly. Social media. And 74 00:04:44,205 --> 00:04:47,800 so that's really to me the value of it. It's not about 75 00:04:47,860 --> 00:04:51,300 audience, but it's about community. And community to me is a two way 76 00:04:51,300 --> 00:04:54,900 conversation, and audience is, you know, shouting it out with a 77 00:04:54,900 --> 00:04:58,580 megaphone. And you know what? This is so true, Andréa, 78 00:04:58,580 --> 00:05:02,235 whether you are on social media for as a 79 00:05:02,235 --> 00:05:05,995 content creator to promote your business, there 80 00:05:05,995 --> 00:05:09,835 are people who do this in a really skillful way where 81 00:05:09,835 --> 00:05:13,455 they attract people to them and the others 82 00:05:13,515 --> 00:05:17,030 are shouting at them, and they're probably running in the opposite 83 00:05:17,090 --> 00:05:20,930 direction. Why do you think so many people are 84 00:05:20,930 --> 00:05:24,290 still promoting this idea of creating an 85 00:05:24,290 --> 00:05:28,135 audience? Because clearly, there's media and then 86 00:05:28,135 --> 00:05:31,675 there's social media. And if there's social media, 87 00:05:31,815 --> 00:05:35,355 it shouldn't just be posting something and 88 00:05:35,735 --> 00:05:38,315 leaving it there. Like, get a billboard. 89 00:05:39,090 --> 00:05:42,850 Yeah. Right? There's supposed to be some sort of exchange. There's supposed 90 00:05:42,850 --> 00:05:46,230 to be some sort of back and forth. And what is the purpose of that 91 00:05:46,850 --> 00:05:50,610 connection? Right? Why do you think it's so 92 00:05:50,610 --> 00:05:53,705 still I mean, we're talking 20 years. 20 93 00:05:54,245 --> 00:05:57,385 years later, so many gurus, 94 00:05:58,245 --> 00:06:01,685 consultants, coaches, media coaches are still talking about 95 00:06:01,685 --> 00:06:05,445 audience. It seems perfectly obvious that there's 96 00:06:05,445 --> 00:06:08,104 a better way to make use of this technology. 97 00:06:09,070 --> 00:06:12,830 Yeah. It is. And I think it's human nature, and you probably know 98 00:06:12,830 --> 00:06:16,270 this more than I do. But, when I think about a different 99 00:06:16,270 --> 00:06:20,110 industry, like, take the health industry, health coaches talking 100 00:06:20,110 --> 00:06:23,570 about, you know, lose £20 in 20 days or whatever 101 00:06:23,790 --> 00:06:27,544 they're knocking out here. Right? Our brains are attracted 102 00:06:27,845 --> 00:06:31,525 to that instant gratification, and we're 103 00:06:31,525 --> 00:06:35,224 romanced by the idea of it. Right? We're like, oh, that sounds 104 00:06:35,444 --> 00:06:39,205 lovely. And I think social media can feel the same. It 105 00:06:39,205 --> 00:06:43,020 it sounds good on paper to go, I want 10,000 106 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:47,020 followers. That's my goal. Right? That's my goal, 10,000 followers. 107 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:51,000 It sounds great, but it's not sustainable. It's 108 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,300 not healthy to chase that as an individual person. 109 00:06:54,884 --> 00:06:58,585 And I think it can be really detrimental to building connections because 110 00:06:58,724 --> 00:07:02,425 any connection you make is not enough. So, like, 111 00:07:02,485 --> 00:07:06,085 like with the health industry, losing 1 pound, it's not enough. You 112 00:07:06,085 --> 00:07:09,930 have to go to the 20. Or why are we even focusing on pounds anyways? 113 00:07:09,930 --> 00:07:13,389 Why don't we focus on living a healthy life? Right? So it's like those 114 00:07:13,690 --> 00:07:17,129 questions are a lot of the questions that I have for social media and 115 00:07:17,129 --> 00:07:20,970 marketing at large. It's, you know, really digging into 116 00:07:20,970 --> 00:07:24,785 why do we want audience growth in the first place? Well, because it's 117 00:07:24,785 --> 00:07:28,544 being sold to us as the the magical pill that will 118 00:07:28,544 --> 00:07:32,085 change everything about your business, when the reality 119 00:07:32,145 --> 00:07:35,745 is that little magical pill works for a half of a 120 00:07:35,745 --> 00:07:39,400 percent of people, and the rest of us are just giving money to the person 121 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,939 who invented it, because it's a little bit of a snake oil situation. 122 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:47,000 And I'm saying that as someone who deeply cares about social 123 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,759 media. I'm very passionate about it. I love it as a tool 124 00:07:50,759 --> 00:07:54,574 for connection, but it's not about that shiny audience 125 00:07:54,574 --> 00:07:58,035 growth number at the end of the day. Girl, you are singing 126 00:07:58,095 --> 00:08:00,995 from my end book because truthfully, 127 00:08:02,255 --> 00:08:05,235 most of the people that I work with as a business coach 128 00:08:06,095 --> 00:08:09,770 have spent 1,000, sometimes 129 00:08:09,910 --> 00:08:13,510 many 1,000 of dollars chasing after and I use the 130 00:08:13,510 --> 00:08:17,210 same terminology you do, magic pill. Why? 131 00:08:17,350 --> 00:08:20,730 Because we're we are socially and culturally conditioned 132 00:08:21,110 --> 00:08:24,205 to want easy, fast, fun, 133 00:08:24,664 --> 00:08:27,565 basically, passive results 134 00:08:28,504 --> 00:08:32,284 that are gonna blow our mind and rock our world. So 135 00:08:32,345 --> 00:08:36,024 whether someone's selling us, you know, wrinkle cream or 136 00:08:36,024 --> 00:08:39,440 weight loss or, you know, dating 137 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,899 advice, whatever it is, we are socially and culturally 138 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,740 conditioned to expect it to be easy, fast, fun, 139 00:08:47,519 --> 00:08:51,279 ridiculously successful with almost no effort 140 00:08:51,279 --> 00:08:54,654 on our part. And even though we know in 141 00:08:54,654 --> 00:08:58,175 our minds, if it sounds too good to be true, it 142 00:08:58,175 --> 00:09:01,315 freaking is. We still fall for it 143 00:09:01,774 --> 00:09:05,615 because we have been trained to do so. And your brain gives you 144 00:09:05,615 --> 00:09:09,269 that little squirt of dopamine when you hit the 145 00:09:09,269 --> 00:09:13,050 buy now button. Then we have to 146 00:09:13,190 --> 00:09:16,790 justify what we've done with the sunk cost 147 00:09:16,790 --> 00:09:20,389 fallacy. Well, I have to keep doing it 148 00:09:20,389 --> 00:09:24,195 because look at how much money and time and energy I've already 149 00:09:24,195 --> 00:09:28,035 put into doing it. I have to keep doing it, which is why 150 00:09:28,035 --> 00:09:31,495 I think most of us have a relationship with social media that's, 151 00:09:31,875 --> 00:09:35,415 let's just say complicated. We love it. We hate it. 152 00:09:35,715 --> 00:09:39,430 We don't wanna be with it, but we can't leave it. And, you 153 00:09:39,430 --> 00:09:43,030 know, for something that was supposed to be fun, it 154 00:09:43,030 --> 00:09:46,790 sure feels like almost like abusive to so many people 155 00:09:46,790 --> 00:09:50,630 I talk to. Oh my gosh. Yes. I I often describe it as 156 00:09:50,630 --> 00:09:54,375 it it's, a toxic situationship. It's almost 157 00:09:54,375 --> 00:09:58,215 like that, you know, ex boyfriend who always comes 158 00:09:58,215 --> 00:10:02,055 calling back and but never quite lets you meet his parents, 159 00:10:02,055 --> 00:10:05,735 you know. Yeah. You're not you're not getting that close. And I do think 160 00:10:05,735 --> 00:10:09,520 social media is that way, because a lot 161 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:13,280 of us just follow along with the whatever the app tells us to 162 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:17,040 do Mhmm. And without really analyzing what their goal is. So 163 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,654 let's take Instagram for instance. We log in. If you 164 00:10:20,654 --> 00:10:24,334 start creating an account, it's instantly telling you what to do. Put your 165 00:10:24,334 --> 00:10:28,175 photo here. Create your profile. Post here. Oh, look. You got 166 00:10:28,175 --> 00:10:31,935 engagement. Let's get more. Mhmm. And so we start chasing that 167 00:10:31,935 --> 00:10:35,420 because that's what the app tells us to do. We see everyone else doing it, 168 00:10:35,420 --> 00:10:39,180 so we keep doing that without stopping to think, you know, what's in 169 00:10:39,180 --> 00:10:43,020 this for me? Why am I doing this for me? How is this nourishing 170 00:10:43,020 --> 00:10:46,720 me? And so I think part of it is recognizing 171 00:10:46,860 --> 00:10:50,535 that Instagram, their currency is at your attention, 172 00:10:50,595 --> 00:10:54,275 and they're selling ads. So once we can, like, pull 173 00:10:54,275 --> 00:10:57,715 back, you know, the the Oz curtain and 174 00:10:57,715 --> 00:11:01,315 see the real person behind the curtain there, we 175 00:11:01,315 --> 00:11:05,030 can recognize that, oh, this is Instagram's goal. My 176 00:11:05,030 --> 00:11:08,710 goal doesn't have to be the same as Instagram's goal. So then we 177 00:11:08,710 --> 00:11:12,390 can ask the question, what is my goal? Why am I here? What 178 00:11:12,390 --> 00:11:16,195 benefit does that have this have on my personal life, my business life? And 179 00:11:16,195 --> 00:11:19,875 that can really be illuminating and help you decide how you wanna use the app 180 00:11:19,875 --> 00:11:23,714 instead of letting the app decide for you. And, you know, you're 181 00:11:23,714 --> 00:11:26,695 talking about really being mindful, intentional, 182 00:11:27,875 --> 00:11:31,230 strategic, And that requires a level of critical 183 00:11:31,290 --> 00:11:34,910 thinking and self awareness that we completely 184 00:11:35,290 --> 00:11:39,050 bypass when we're just following the 185 00:11:39,050 --> 00:11:42,890 herd, when we're just doing what everyone else is doing, 186 00:11:42,890 --> 00:11:46,505 when we're paying a course, a program, a coach 187 00:11:46,885 --> 00:11:50,725 to say, just tell me what time of day to post. Just tell 188 00:11:50,725 --> 00:11:54,265 me how many characters. Just tell me how many hashtags. 189 00:11:54,565 --> 00:11:58,230 Just tell me what length should my Reels be. And so 190 00:11:58,230 --> 00:12:01,670 many people are just desperate to be given a 191 00:12:01,670 --> 00:12:05,030 formula. Just tell me what to 192 00:12:05,030 --> 00:12:08,710 do. For me, when someone hires me to help them 193 00:12:08,710 --> 00:12:12,390 with their business and they say, okay, look, just tell me what to 194 00:12:12,390 --> 00:12:15,955 do, like word for word, and I'll do it. And I'm 195 00:12:15,955 --> 00:12:19,475 like, honey, I'm not for you. Because you're gonna end up 196 00:12:19,475 --> 00:12:22,935 with something that you hate because 197 00:12:22,995 --> 00:12:26,240 you had no investment 198 00:12:27,020 --> 00:12:30,620 in choosing it. Like, no, no, no, no, no, no. And I think that's one 199 00:12:30,620 --> 00:12:34,380 that you're absolutely right. We're just doing what everyone else is 200 00:12:34,380 --> 00:12:37,600 doing and what we think we're supposed to do. And we've been told it works 201 00:12:37,900 --> 00:12:41,695 without asking ourselves the most important questions. 202 00:12:42,315 --> 00:12:45,675 Why am I even here? What are my 203 00:12:45,675 --> 00:12:49,355 goals? How do I know when I'm reaching them? How 204 00:12:49,355 --> 00:12:52,875 do I feel when I reach them? How do I know when 205 00:12:52,875 --> 00:12:56,590 enough is enough? Will enough ever be enough? Like, we're 206 00:12:56,590 --> 00:13:00,290 just bypassing all that really important critical thinking. 207 00:13:00,990 --> 00:13:04,750 Yeah. And and it goes so much farther than social media as 208 00:13:04,750 --> 00:13:08,110 well. All of those questions are important in every aspect of our business. 209 00:13:08,110 --> 00:13:11,464 So, you know, when I think about revenue goals, for 210 00:13:11,464 --> 00:13:14,904 instance, chasing after that feels very similar to 211 00:13:14,904 --> 00:13:18,665 chasing after audience growth goals. You have to stop and ask 212 00:13:18,665 --> 00:13:22,185 yourself why, what's required to get there, and am 213 00:13:22,185 --> 00:13:25,820 I willing to do what's required to get there? So for 214 00:13:25,820 --> 00:13:29,339 example, I was looking at my data from this past 215 00:13:29,339 --> 00:13:32,960 year, looking at the post that worked really well. And, 216 00:13:33,820 --> 00:13:37,020 one of the post that worked really well was a a little bit of like 217 00:13:37,020 --> 00:13:40,805 a a trendy, you know, here's what's happening right now on TikTok. It's one 218 00:13:40,805 --> 00:13:44,265 of my highest viewed posts. Mhmm. And I thought to myself, 219 00:13:44,805 --> 00:13:48,485 I could absolutely go down this road. I could attract 220 00:13:48,485 --> 00:13:52,105 more quote unquote audience. Mhmm. I could bring in more people, 221 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,460 but I don't want to be caught up in chasing 222 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:59,200 the nuances of all the updates of all the 223 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:03,040 platforms anymore. And just by releasing that, I'm, 224 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:06,800 like, oh, I don't so I don't have to create content just because it 225 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,615 performed really well for me. How about we create the content that really 226 00:14:10,615 --> 00:14:14,214 resonates with me and actually brings me the people that I want to work with, 227 00:14:14,214 --> 00:14:17,894 right, and not the people who are also constantly chasing all the 228 00:14:17,894 --> 00:14:21,629 updates and they're here today, gone tomorrow kinda thing. So it's 229 00:14:21,629 --> 00:14:25,389 it's kind of like diving deeper into the question of, yes, we can look at 230 00:14:25,389 --> 00:14:29,069 all of these data points and say, here's what works, here's what doesn't. But at 231 00:14:29,069 --> 00:14:32,670 its core, do you want to do that? Does it benefit the direction that your 232 00:14:32,670 --> 00:14:36,475 business is going? If you can't answer that question confidently, then 233 00:14:36,475 --> 00:14:39,915 it may not be the strategy for you. And that's what I found for 234 00:14:39,915 --> 00:14:43,675 me looking at this year. You have developed 235 00:14:43,675 --> 00:14:46,894 a tremendous amount of expertise in guiding people 236 00:14:47,035 --> 00:14:50,300 to do social media mindfully. 237 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,920 Being on the right platforms for them, for 238 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,600 their goals, for their values, using their talents in the way 239 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:02,440 that they want to. And you have long said, because I've been a member of 240 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:06,255 your membership, You have long said you don't need 241 00:15:06,255 --> 00:15:10,095 to be everywhere. You don't want to be everywhere. You 242 00:15:10,095 --> 00:15:13,795 will not show up skillfully everywhere. Like, 243 00:15:14,095 --> 00:15:17,650 don't do it. And I still did it. 244 00:15:18,750 --> 00:15:22,589 I would I was paying you to guide me and to lead 245 00:15:22,589 --> 00:15:26,130 me and to teach me. And you were very clear with everyone 246 00:15:26,510 --> 00:15:29,875 and you know, the Savvy Social Group. Don't 247 00:15:30,015 --> 00:15:33,795 try to be everywhere. It doesn't work. And I I realized 248 00:15:33,935 --> 00:15:37,635 that, wow, this is this level of conditioning 249 00:15:38,815 --> 00:15:41,959 and this level of fear and FOMO, 250 00:15:42,660 --> 00:15:46,199 and just a fundamental distrust in your own 251 00:15:46,420 --> 00:15:50,180 intuition Yeah. Is so pervasive. Like, 252 00:15:50,180 --> 00:15:53,575 I know better, and I still did it. Now you'll be 253 00:15:53,575 --> 00:15:57,355 happy to know that I did start pulling myself 254 00:15:57,654 --> 00:16:01,015 off of various platforms one at a time. But it was 255 00:16:01,015 --> 00:16:04,774 actually painful. And I think this is really quite perverse. And 256 00:16:04,774 --> 00:16:08,420 I'm I'm fessing up to this with you, because I 257 00:16:08,420 --> 00:16:12,200 know I'm not the only one. And I know that being honest and vulnerable 258 00:16:12,420 --> 00:16:16,120 about the things that we do as business owners helps other people 259 00:16:16,580 --> 00:16:19,955 to know they're not alone and they're not crazy. But 260 00:16:19,955 --> 00:16:23,575 it's it's such a powerful force 261 00:16:24,355 --> 00:16:28,115 that, you know, we're in business by ourselves. Many of us, small 262 00:16:28,115 --> 00:16:31,635 business owners, small agency owners, solopreneur, all the 263 00:16:31,635 --> 00:16:35,220 decisions rest on you. You are quite literally where the buck starts 264 00:16:35,220 --> 00:16:38,980 and stops. And we all think we're not 265 00:16:38,980 --> 00:16:42,740 doing enough. We're not doing the right thing. We're not doing enough of the 266 00:16:42,740 --> 00:16:45,880 right thing. And so having the presence of mind 267 00:16:46,580 --> 00:16:50,275 to be more intentional, to be more mindful, and 268 00:16:50,275 --> 00:16:54,115 to practice constraint, this is no 269 00:16:54,115 --> 00:16:57,895 small thing. Mhmm. Yeah. And it it's 270 00:16:58,435 --> 00:17:02,135 it's a huge decision to make. And when you said FOMO, 271 00:17:02,275 --> 00:17:05,609 that you nailed it. Because it it really does feel like 272 00:17:05,929 --> 00:17:09,609 being invited to a party, stepping through the door, and then going, I'm 273 00:17:09,609 --> 00:17:13,130 gonna leave early. Right? Before, you know, before the 274 00:17:13,130 --> 00:17:16,970 DJ even gets started or whatever the case may be. So it feels 275 00:17:16,970 --> 00:17:20,190 a lot like leaving a party before it's even started, 276 00:17:20,785 --> 00:17:24,305 and we feel like we're missing out on something huge. Because that's 277 00:17:24,305 --> 00:17:27,984 frankly what marketers have sold us is that you are gonna miss 278 00:17:27,984 --> 00:17:30,565 out if you don't participate in this platform. 279 00:17:31,665 --> 00:17:34,405 I'm a huge champion of people leaving platforms. 280 00:17:35,740 --> 00:17:39,279 I left Twitter this past year, ex formerly known as Twitter. 281 00:17:39,340 --> 00:17:43,100 Mhmm. And, I got a little flack for it from some of my 282 00:17:43,100 --> 00:17:46,779 marketing colleagues. And I was like, I just don't see a space 283 00:17:46,779 --> 00:17:50,525 here for me anymore. And frankly, I haven't for quite a 284 00:17:50,525 --> 00:17:54,365 long time. The transfer of ownership just was the nail in the coffin 285 00:17:54,365 --> 00:17:58,045 for me. So I think that feels like we have 286 00:17:58,045 --> 00:18:01,630 to justify it to not 287 00:18:01,630 --> 00:18:05,230 only the world around us, but to ourselves because we're missing out on something 288 00:18:05,230 --> 00:18:09,010 huge, when in reality, we're actually opening 289 00:18:09,070 --> 00:18:12,830 up more doors for opportunity. So one of the things my coach said 290 00:18:12,830 --> 00:18:16,405 to me, and I'm sure you say this to your clients as well, is what 291 00:18:16,405 --> 00:18:19,925 are you missing out on because you are 292 00:18:19,925 --> 00:18:23,765 committed to this other thing that is completely unsatisfying to you? 293 00:18:23,765 --> 00:18:27,545 Mhmm. Right? Like, what are you opting out of because you've opted into 294 00:18:28,429 --> 00:18:31,730 what I'm saying on Instagram or whatever it is that you're staying into. 295 00:18:32,350 --> 00:18:35,010 And sometimes removing the 296 00:18:35,710 --> 00:18:39,230 mental weight and the time commitment of being on that 297 00:18:39,230 --> 00:18:42,975 platform opens up so many other opportunities that you can then 298 00:18:43,054 --> 00:18:46,674 explore with that freed up time and mental freedom. 299 00:18:47,054 --> 00:18:50,815 And so I think that's part of it too is, you know, yes, we've been 300 00:18:50,815 --> 00:18:53,855 sold a bill of goods that we should be everywhere and be all thanks to 301 00:18:53,855 --> 00:18:57,520 all people. Mhmm. But it it's it's not possible. And the the 302 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:01,280 brands that you admire who appear like they're everywhere typically 303 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,800 have a team that's running it behind you. And usually a 304 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:08,640 pretty big team. And some of them have a different team for each of the 305 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:12,024 different platforms. So yeah, yes, 306 00:19:12,024 --> 00:19:15,164 objects, in this mirror may be closer 307 00:19:16,264 --> 00:19:19,705 than they appear, or they may be a lot further away and 308 00:19:19,705 --> 00:19:23,120 have no bearing on you and your micro 309 00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:26,880 business or micro agency. I wanna swing the 310 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,860 conversation back a little bit in the direction of 311 00:19:30,399 --> 00:19:32,580 connection versus engagement. 312 00:19:34,095 --> 00:19:37,695 I know lots of times we use these words interchangeably, but 313 00:19:37,695 --> 00:19:41,395 I'm be really curious to know because we're very like minded on this. 314 00:19:41,615 --> 00:19:45,294 How do you use the term engagement versus connection 315 00:19:45,294 --> 00:19:49,100 when you're specifically talking to entrepreneurs like us who 316 00:19:49,100 --> 00:19:52,940 use social media to market their business? Yes. So 317 00:19:52,940 --> 00:19:56,380 I think engagement can feel surface level, and it 318 00:19:56,380 --> 00:20:00,059 typically is a statistic that, again, the apps 319 00:20:00,059 --> 00:20:03,605 give us. So, I keep using Instagram as an example 320 00:20:03,605 --> 00:20:07,445 because with a lot of my my students and clients, it tends to be 321 00:20:07,445 --> 00:20:11,045 the the sticking point for a lot of folks. But Instagram has 322 00:20:11,045 --> 00:20:14,665 this fake notification that says 323 00:20:15,030 --> 00:20:18,870 80% of people have engaged with this post or this post has gotten 324 00:20:18,870 --> 00:20:22,550 80% more engagement. And the goal of it 325 00:20:22,550 --> 00:20:26,070 is to get you to open the app again so that you're scrolling again so 326 00:20:26,070 --> 00:20:29,745 that you're in their app again. And if you actually run the numbers, it's not 327 00:20:29,905 --> 00:20:33,525 80% increase in engagement. So 328 00:20:33,585 --> 00:20:37,265 engagement is a metric the app uses to say, hey, people are signaling 329 00:20:37,265 --> 00:20:40,085 that this post is important. It could be a like, it could be a comment. 330 00:20:40,385 --> 00:20:44,149 To me, that's very surface level. It almost means nothing. 331 00:20:45,090 --> 00:20:48,769 I see how it plays into the algorithm, and obviously, it does help for more 332 00:20:48,769 --> 00:20:52,549 people to see your post. Connection to me is a deeper conversation. 333 00:20:53,250 --> 00:20:56,789 And connections for me also mostly happen on 334 00:20:57,255 --> 00:21:00,695 what I call dark social or maybe, like, underground of 335 00:21:00,695 --> 00:21:04,235 social, which is typically in a DM, 336 00:21:04,455 --> 00:21:08,055 so direct message. So not something that's visible to 337 00:21:08,055 --> 00:21:11,669 everyone or public conversation. And so that's really 338 00:21:11,669 --> 00:21:15,270 where the connection point comes far from me. And 339 00:21:15,270 --> 00:21:19,110 connection goes beyond a simple comment on someone's 340 00:21:19,110 --> 00:21:22,710 post. It goes a little bit deeper into actually getting to know that 341 00:21:22,710 --> 00:21:26,075 person. And I think this is a lot like building any 342 00:21:26,075 --> 00:21:29,855 relationship in the real world, dating relationships, friend relationships. 343 00:21:30,395 --> 00:21:34,095 It's not one conversation and, yay, we're best friends now. 344 00:21:34,155 --> 00:21:37,534 Right? Like, usually, it's years years of micro 345 00:21:37,890 --> 00:21:41,730 interactions that builds a relationship with someone, and it can't 346 00:21:41,730 --> 00:21:45,330 be manufactured. And so that's the thing that is super 347 00:21:45,330 --> 00:21:49,090 important to me about social media connection is it's it's a 348 00:21:49,090 --> 00:21:52,355 series of those micro interactions that builds 349 00:21:52,575 --> 00:21:56,095 relationship with that individual person. Mhmm. 350 00:21:56,735 --> 00:22:00,415 And sometimes when I talk about this to my to to 351 00:22:00,415 --> 00:22:04,110 my my business friends who, like you mentioned, want the path, they want they want 352 00:22:04,110 --> 00:22:07,710 the answer. Mhmm. Sometimes they say, okay. Well, give me a spreadsheet where I can 353 00:22:07,710 --> 00:22:11,470 track all of this. And, as much as 354 00:22:11,470 --> 00:22:14,530 I love a spreadsheet Yes. You do. I know that. 355 00:22:15,470 --> 00:22:18,875 I love a spreadsheet. I don't there's no way to track this part of it. 356 00:22:18,875 --> 00:22:22,475 I'm sorry. It's, once you start tracking it, to me, 357 00:22:22,475 --> 00:22:25,935 it's all it's like tracking audience growth. There's something 358 00:22:26,155 --> 00:22:29,675 that diminishes the value of each individual relationship when you 359 00:22:29,675 --> 00:22:33,090 start combining them and adding and subtracting and and 360 00:22:33,090 --> 00:22:36,850 calculating, okay, I talked to this person 2 weeks ago, so I reach out to 361 00:22:36,850 --> 00:22:40,610 them again, it doesn't feel genuine. So 362 00:22:40,610 --> 00:22:44,450 there are ways you can organize yourself, obviously, to keep track of 363 00:22:44,450 --> 00:22:47,910 conversations. But it's really about those 364 00:22:48,434 --> 00:22:52,195 collective micro interactions that build connection with people. 365 00:22:52,195 --> 00:22:55,335 And the surface level like or leaving a comment, 366 00:22:56,835 --> 00:23:00,450 doesn't really leave space for that deeper connection. This is 367 00:23:00,450 --> 00:23:04,130 such a powerful distinction, Andréa. And I 368 00:23:04,130 --> 00:23:07,570 think speaks directly to the heart of why so many 369 00:23:07,570 --> 00:23:11,409 people say, kinda like, I hate it, 370 00:23:11,409 --> 00:23:15,235 but I use it. It's like the old Listerine commercial. I hate it, but 371 00:23:15,235 --> 00:23:18,775 I use it because they're just 372 00:23:19,075 --> 00:23:21,975 not getting a meaningful 373 00:23:22,915 --> 00:23:26,595 piece of feedback. I mean, to me, it's like, yeah. I got I got more 374 00:23:26,595 --> 00:23:30,389 likes on this. I got more comments on this. It just somehow 375 00:23:30,389 --> 00:23:34,070 doesn't ever really feel like it matters. And I might be 376 00:23:34,070 --> 00:23:37,909 curious. Oh, this post got a lot more comments, a lot more 377 00:23:37,909 --> 00:23:41,750 likes. Oh, this one got shared. That's interesting. I wonder what it is about 378 00:23:41,750 --> 00:23:45,135 this post. So it'll it'll get my curiosity going. 379 00:23:45,835 --> 00:23:49,055 But it still feels very superficial, 380 00:23:50,235 --> 00:23:53,135 very from an emotional level, from a 381 00:23:53,755 --> 00:23:57,215 human relational level, just 382 00:23:58,169 --> 00:24:01,870 vapid, just sort of like something that would just evaporate 383 00:24:02,090 --> 00:24:05,450 a short time later. And I think because it's not, it's like fast 384 00:24:05,450 --> 00:24:08,409 food. You can eat a bunch of fast food, you can eat so much, you 385 00:24:08,409 --> 00:24:12,195 make yourself feel stuffed and sick. And an hour later, you're hungry 386 00:24:12,195 --> 00:24:14,855 again because you didn't actually eat something 387 00:24:15,555 --> 00:24:18,915 satisfying and nourishing. So in 388 00:24:18,915 --> 00:24:22,755 truth, there really isn't ever enough, is there? It's like you're just 389 00:24:22,755 --> 00:24:25,700 on this endless treadmill for more, more, 390 00:24:26,559 --> 00:24:30,240 more, and yet more of what? More of something that really 391 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,940 doesn't fundamentally satisfy you. 392 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,325 Yeah. Yeah. And I think this is this is where this 393 00:24:38,325 --> 00:24:42,085 word scaling comes from too, where people think they want 394 00:24:42,085 --> 00:24:45,925 to scale and and get as many, you know, 395 00:24:45,925 --> 00:24:49,605 touch points as possible and repurpose their content as 396 00:24:49,605 --> 00:24:53,220 many places as possible. And I think 397 00:24:53,220 --> 00:24:56,660 there is a danger in that, especially for micro business 398 00:24:56,660 --> 00:25:00,500 owners because, well, frankly, our businesses don't need 399 00:25:00,500 --> 00:25:04,020 it. Right? To to have a successful business, we don't need all of 400 00:25:04,020 --> 00:25:07,795 that. But like you said with the with the fast food 401 00:25:07,795 --> 00:25:11,235 example, it doesn't nourish us. And for me 402 00:25:11,235 --> 00:25:14,855 personally, the things that bring me joy are not 403 00:25:15,795 --> 00:25:19,635 something I can scale. Right? Like, an example is this 404 00:25:19,635 --> 00:25:23,470 week, I had, someone join my community, and I wanted to connect them 405 00:25:23,470 --> 00:25:26,370 with another community member. And I couldn't find her profile, 406 00:25:26,909 --> 00:25:30,429 so I went to Instagram and I sent her a voice DM because we had 407 00:25:30,429 --> 00:25:33,549 just had a conversation there. And I was like, hey, I can't find your profile, 408 00:25:33,549 --> 00:25:37,375 and it was like a total misunderstanding. This is not a scalable 409 00:25:37,434 --> 00:25:41,035 action. Right? Like, most people would say, Andréa, get your 410 00:25:41,035 --> 00:25:44,395 assistant to do that for you. And I'm like, this is not that's not 411 00:25:44,395 --> 00:25:48,235 nourishing for me. Yes, I could have a machine working 412 00:25:48,235 --> 00:25:52,039 in the background to just automatically pair people together or something. I don't 413 00:25:52,039 --> 00:25:54,700 know. But there's something 414 00:25:55,399 --> 00:25:59,000 intrinsically satisfying when I connect one 415 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,539 person to another person, and that to me is a value of community. 416 00:26:02,679 --> 00:26:06,205 It's not about how many individuals can I 417 00:26:06,205 --> 00:26:09,965 get to pay attention to me, you know? To me, it's 418 00:26:09,965 --> 00:26:13,804 about how can I have them to have conversations with each other that 419 00:26:13,804 --> 00:26:17,485 aren't centered around me at all? Like, you meet this person. Go 420 00:26:17,485 --> 00:26:21,049 forth and be awesome. I think it kinda feels like, you know, a matchmaker. 421 00:26:21,110 --> 00:26:24,549 Like, if your friend's a matchmaker and, you know, at your wedding, they're like, I 422 00:26:24,549 --> 00:26:27,750 matched you 2 together. I feel like it's similar to that feeling where it's like, 423 00:26:27,750 --> 00:26:31,509 hey, I helped you find your person. And and it's not 424 00:26:31,509 --> 00:26:35,185 a scalable action, and it's not something that I can replicate on 425 00:26:35,185 --> 00:26:39,025 demand, but it's incredibly satisfying. And so that's, you know, 426 00:26:39,025 --> 00:26:42,545 that's part of the connection piece for me too. I love everything about 427 00:26:42,545 --> 00:26:45,845 this so much, so much. Because 428 00:26:45,985 --> 00:26:49,679 we've all been influenced by 429 00:26:49,679 --> 00:26:53,279 the messages we've all been hearing. We're part of the same 430 00:26:53,279 --> 00:26:57,039 community, female entrepreneurs, we're all 431 00:26:57,039 --> 00:27:00,260 hearing. First, it was you wanna make 6 figures. 432 00:27:02,174 --> 00:27:05,855 Then that wasn't enough. Now we're going for 7 433 00:27:05,855 --> 00:27:09,695 figure. Now we're in the 2 comma club. And we don't wanna do 1 on 434 00:27:09,695 --> 00:27:13,294 1 work anymore because that's trading dollars for hours. We 435 00:27:13,294 --> 00:27:16,900 wanna scale. So we need a leveraged offer that we can 436 00:27:16,900 --> 00:27:20,600 scale. And everybody's like, okay, dutiful 437 00:27:20,659 --> 00:27:24,179 little sheep going along and then I guess I want this. And 438 00:27:24,179 --> 00:27:27,480 unfortunately, people who are socialized as female 439 00:27:28,020 --> 00:27:31,635 are told what they're supposed to want, what they're supposed to care about, how they're 440 00:27:31,635 --> 00:27:35,475 supposed to behave. So we're kind of used to it. So like, okay, I guess 441 00:27:35,475 --> 00:27:39,235 I thought I was doing pretty good because I got to my 6 figures. But 442 00:27:39,235 --> 00:27:42,755 now I'm hearing that actually I'm not doing very good at all. So now I 443 00:27:42,755 --> 00:27:46,559 gotta shoot for 7. Now I have to grow a team. Now I have 444 00:27:46,559 --> 00:27:50,160 to have a scalable offer. And I remember in my 445 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:54,000 former career as a psychotherapist, I crawled up the food chain. You better believe 446 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,679 I did. I crawled all the way up. I was a clinical director of a 447 00:27:57,679 --> 00:28:01,255 huge agency running multiple programs, Many 1,000,000 of 448 00:28:01,255 --> 00:28:04,955 dollars of mental health services delivered under my name. 449 00:28:05,495 --> 00:28:08,955 And the further and further and further I got away 450 00:28:09,735 --> 00:28:13,575 from dealing with individual clients, the 451 00:28:13,575 --> 00:28:17,400 more miserable I was. I eventually stepped off the path. I 452 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,240 opened a private practice. I didn't even do couples 453 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,540 work or family work. I worked with individuals. Why? 454 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,460 Because I could have those micro moments. I could have those 455 00:28:29,684 --> 00:28:33,304 deep, meaningful, transformational conversations 456 00:28:34,164 --> 00:28:37,845 and connections that changed people's lives and 457 00:28:37,845 --> 00:28:41,285 changed me. So I'm really 458 00:28:41,285 --> 00:28:45,100 relieved to hear other people I respect as 459 00:28:45,100 --> 00:28:48,539 leaders talking about things that don't 460 00:28:48,539 --> 00:28:52,139 scale and why they matter so much. And why 461 00:28:52,139 --> 00:28:55,600 we maybe we don't need to get rid of our group programs 462 00:28:55,899 --> 00:28:59,695 and our courses and all that because there's certainly a place for 463 00:29:00,075 --> 00:29:03,695 that. But if we think that we should expect satisfaction 464 00:29:04,395 --> 00:29:07,695 from superficial transactional situationships, 465 00:29:08,794 --> 00:29:12,330 and it's not working for us, it's not an us 466 00:29:12,330 --> 00:29:16,110 problem. It's a them problem. It is engineered 467 00:29:17,130 --> 00:29:20,510 to be superficially and 468 00:29:20,730 --> 00:29:24,270 briefly satisfying, so we come back and do it again 469 00:29:24,605 --> 00:29:28,445 and again and and again. This reminds me so much 470 00:29:28,445 --> 00:29:32,045 of the, chat GPT AI conversation as 471 00:29:32,045 --> 00:29:35,565 well. Mhmm. Because it feels in theory, it's 472 00:29:35,565 --> 00:29:39,179 gratifying. But in reality, it creates so 473 00:29:39,179 --> 00:29:42,620 much impersonalization that I 474 00:29:42,620 --> 00:29:46,380 actually think those unscalable personal touches are becoming 475 00:29:46,380 --> 00:29:49,919 even more valuable. Right? Like, we don't wanna talk to robots. 476 00:29:50,140 --> 00:29:53,775 I mean, I don't wanna talk to robots. I want a real person. 477 00:29:54,635 --> 00:29:58,475 And if I'm calling someone and there's an automated message, I'm waiting 478 00:29:58,475 --> 00:30:02,155 to press 0 so I can talk to a real person. Right? And so I 479 00:30:02,155 --> 00:30:05,855 think that that piece of it, especially for, you know, businesses 480 00:30:05,915 --> 00:30:09,100 like ours where we're not, like, mega conglomerates, 481 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,659 that personal touch will actually carry us a lot further. 482 00:30:14,279 --> 00:30:18,039 And as much as people talk about audience and scaling, at 483 00:30:18,039 --> 00:30:21,820 the end of the day, you're constantly going to be chasing that thing. 484 00:30:22,544 --> 00:30:26,004 And if you have a great offer, a great product, great service, 485 00:30:26,384 --> 00:30:29,105 you don't really need a lot of clients to be able to build a referral 486 00:30:29,105 --> 00:30:32,304 network, and then you don't really need all of the marketing to, like, bring in 487 00:30:32,304 --> 00:30:35,745 new clients because your your reputation, you know, precedes 488 00:30:35,745 --> 00:30:39,360 you. I mean, I think that's you know, I know sometimes I 489 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,120 talk myself out of a job with people because they're like, I wanna work with 490 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,140 you MJ. And I'm like, do you really? Do you need this? 491 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,980 And so I think that's part of it is, you know, trying to figure out 492 00:30:49,195 --> 00:30:52,495 where you're going in your business and how social media 493 00:30:53,035 --> 00:30:56,555 truly, truly has an impact on that direction. Because a lot of 494 00:30:56,555 --> 00:31:00,155 us don't need the heavy lift that we're being sold. We don't 495 00:31:00,155 --> 00:31:03,779 need, you know, the daily posting and, you 496 00:31:03,779 --> 00:31:07,620 know, making sure that we, you know, spend hours on the platform. I 497 00:31:07,620 --> 00:31:11,299 think someone said they they posted TikTok 3 times a day. And I was like 498 00:31:11,539 --> 00:31:14,835 Oh, lord. This is not for me. Not for me. 499 00:31:15,315 --> 00:31:18,995 And so, you know, some of these things, like, yes, they they can work. I 500 00:31:18,995 --> 00:31:22,434 can I can show you the numbers? You're gonna get lots of followers. But does 501 00:31:22,434 --> 00:31:25,875 it make a difference to your business? That's the real question. And your 502 00:31:25,875 --> 00:31:29,410 life. Yes. And your life. Because I 503 00:31:29,410 --> 00:31:32,770 think especially as small business owners, agency owners, 504 00:31:32,770 --> 00:31:36,549 solopreneurs, we are our business. Our business is us. 505 00:31:36,770 --> 00:31:40,130 This is not just our livelihood. It is in fact our life. Our 506 00:31:40,130 --> 00:31:43,925 life is the moments of how we spend our time, our 507 00:31:43,925 --> 00:31:47,525 energy, our effort, our focus, our attention, our passion, our love, 508 00:31:47,525 --> 00:31:50,985 our drive. It's how we're spending it. 509 00:31:51,285 --> 00:31:55,045 And they're precious and few. And the longer I live, 510 00:31:55,045 --> 00:31:58,890 the more I realize all of this is so fleeting. 511 00:31:59,350 --> 00:32:03,190 Right? And it's the meaningful connections and the communities that matter. 512 00:32:03,190 --> 00:32:06,810 I think particularly in our post pandemic 513 00:32:07,030 --> 00:32:10,605 culture. There's 2 things I I see 514 00:32:10,605 --> 00:32:13,825 happening that I'm wondering what your thoughts are. 515 00:32:14,525 --> 00:32:18,145 1, 100% people are longing for connection. 516 00:32:18,605 --> 00:32:22,305 They're feeling digitally connected and 517 00:32:22,605 --> 00:32:26,380 emotionally disconnected. So we may have 518 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:30,140 100, thousands of followers, but 519 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,720 I think there's an epidemic of loneliness that 520 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,100 is probably not talked about nearly enough. 521 00:32:37,315 --> 00:32:41,155 And most people don't want to identify with it because there's a 522 00:32:41,155 --> 00:32:44,295 sense of shame. Because, oh, I'm I'm I'm an influencer. 523 00:32:46,195 --> 00:32:50,035 Okay. But I also see that many people, while they 524 00:32:50,035 --> 00:32:53,660 may be hungry for connection, hungry for community, 525 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,860 longing for that, they've become 526 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,940 accustomed to a hands 527 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,540 all the way off style of communication. 528 00:33:05,505 --> 00:33:09,025 So when there is a human being available, they will 529 00:33:09,025 --> 00:33:12,785 go with the chat box instead. It's like, oh 530 00:33:12,785 --> 00:33:16,385 no, God, no, I don't wanna talk to a person. Can't I just like 531 00:33:16,385 --> 00:33:20,170 enter it into some can't you just like, oh God, no. And this is 532 00:33:20,170 --> 00:33:23,850 not just like social anxiety, social phobia, whatever. Those things are real. 533 00:33:23,850 --> 00:33:27,690 And and and I appreciate their impact. But I'm 534 00:33:27,690 --> 00:33:31,370 concerned about what I genuinely believe is a 535 00:33:31,370 --> 00:33:35,025 loss of social skills and ability and 536 00:33:35,025 --> 00:33:38,865 desire to relate when given the opportunity. So 537 00:33:38,865 --> 00:33:42,705 I'm sort of seeing 2 different things and I'm wondering what 538 00:33:42,705 --> 00:33:46,540 what the intersection is. Yes. I have 539 00:33:46,540 --> 00:33:50,080 a few thoughts, but I don't know if I have an answer fully 540 00:33:50,540 --> 00:33:54,380 because I think we're still in the process of it all. Right? Like, I think 541 00:33:54,380 --> 00:33:56,720 we're still affected a lot by this pandemic. 542 00:33:58,715 --> 00:34:02,015 I, I too am noticing a lot of people craving connection, 543 00:34:02,875 --> 00:34:06,655 and also they're they're struggling to reach out 544 00:34:06,715 --> 00:34:09,614 and, like, make those connections happen. Yes. 545 00:34:10,475 --> 00:34:14,094 And I think there's a fear of vulnerability there 546 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,239 because the connection is 2 ways. And when we get 547 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:22,000 used to consuming a lot of information, it's 548 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,500 very easy to just scroll through TikTok 549 00:34:25,359 --> 00:34:28,674 and not have to do anything. You don't have to like, you don't have to 550 00:34:28,674 --> 00:34:31,574 comment or share, you just consume. You're just there. 551 00:34:33,154 --> 00:34:36,914 That's easy. It's the it's the fast food. Right? The 552 00:34:36,914 --> 00:34:40,514 nourishment comes from interaction, which means making 553 00:34:40,514 --> 00:34:44,300 yourself feel vulnerable. And I'm saying this from a place of, 554 00:34:44,300 --> 00:34:47,900 like, me too. Yes. This is me. Same. Same. 555 00:34:47,900 --> 00:34:51,660 Same. And I think the realization hit me really when 556 00:34:51,660 --> 00:34:55,120 I was pregnant, with my first kid. And, 557 00:34:55,980 --> 00:34:59,645 I started reading all of the books and listening to all of 558 00:34:59,645 --> 00:35:03,185 the podcasts. But where I got the best advice 559 00:35:03,885 --> 00:35:07,725 was actually asking people, like, calling my friend, 560 00:35:07,725 --> 00:35:11,405 texting my friends. I joined a, like, a 561 00:35:11,405 --> 00:35:15,140 mama's group, specifically a black mom group too. Like, you know, 562 00:35:15,140 --> 00:35:18,980 what what are the challenges we're up against? And part of 563 00:35:18,980 --> 00:35:22,820 that was raising my hand and asking the questions Yeah. And going, help. 564 00:35:22,820 --> 00:35:26,420 I need direction. But now I'm pregnant with baby 565 00:35:26,420 --> 00:35:30,235 number 2. Now I'm realizing the benefit and the 566 00:35:30,235 --> 00:35:33,855 nourishment I get from the community is sharing my experience. 567 00:35:34,395 --> 00:35:37,915 And, like, interacting with the other moms who are now 568 00:35:37,915 --> 00:35:41,455 raising their hands saying, help. I'm here. I I need support. 569 00:35:42,290 --> 00:35:45,970 One of my friends just got pregnant with her first, and she was texting me 570 00:35:45,970 --> 00:35:49,730 last night. And I was saying, oh, just don't read these books at all. 571 00:35:49,730 --> 00:35:53,570 They're terrible. You know, here's a resource. And we have 572 00:35:53,650 --> 00:35:57,170 we I live in Canada, so we have a lot of resources available to us 573 00:35:57,170 --> 00:36:00,985 as as moms and, parents. So 574 00:36:00,985 --> 00:36:04,825 to me, it was extremely nourishing to be able to 575 00:36:04,825 --> 00:36:08,505 give to other people. And I think that's kind of the missing piece right now 576 00:36:08,505 --> 00:36:12,300 with, like, this crave for community. It's not so much about 577 00:36:12,780 --> 00:36:16,620 taking from the community. It's about finding a community you can give 578 00:36:16,620 --> 00:36:20,460 to. I think that part with social 579 00:36:20,460 --> 00:36:23,820 media and the way it's designed is actually very challenging because it is a lot 580 00:36:23,820 --> 00:36:26,585 of consumption. This is so, 581 00:36:27,685 --> 00:36:31,205 so, so good. And, you know, you anticipated my question. 582 00:36:31,205 --> 00:36:34,965 I I find myself thinking, I wonder if some of 583 00:36:34,965 --> 00:36:38,585 these insights were potentiated 584 00:36:38,885 --> 00:36:42,440 by you embarking on the path of parenthood. 585 00:36:42,580 --> 00:36:46,420 Because being a parent, bringing new 586 00:36:46,420 --> 00:36:50,260 life into the world, enlarging your family, is 587 00:36:50,260 --> 00:36:54,100 like a little incubator for really understanding how connection and 588 00:36:54,100 --> 00:36:57,515 community actually benefit us. Because you're not 589 00:36:57,515 --> 00:37:01,115 only connected to these little humans and to your 590 00:37:01,115 --> 00:37:04,575 husband in a new way, but you see the interconnectedness 591 00:37:06,155 --> 00:37:09,915 of you and your community, you with other moms, you with other black 592 00:37:09,915 --> 00:37:13,620 moms, you with other moms of 2 kids versus moms of 1. It's 593 00:37:13,620 --> 00:37:16,840 like your brain can just start recognizing 594 00:37:18,020 --> 00:37:21,780 all these connections that are available to you and that you benefit from. 595 00:37:21,780 --> 00:37:25,265 And yes, to your point that I hope we all 596 00:37:25,265 --> 00:37:28,625 reach a point where we're not just seeking more 597 00:37:28,625 --> 00:37:32,385 consumption, or even connection for the 598 00:37:32,385 --> 00:37:36,005 sake of meeting our own needs. But our presence 599 00:37:36,465 --> 00:37:40,100 as part of an engaged community is not just 600 00:37:40,100 --> 00:37:43,860 there for our own benefit. It is there for the 601 00:37:43,860 --> 00:37:47,640 benefit of others. That sort of feedback 602 00:37:47,860 --> 00:37:51,220 loop that you are able to help 603 00:37:51,220 --> 00:37:55,065 people that other people in the community 604 00:37:55,365 --> 00:37:58,725 maybe couldn't because they're drawn to you for some reason. And there's 605 00:37:58,725 --> 00:38:01,945 satisfaction in that. There's something on a on a 606 00:38:02,165 --> 00:38:06,005 societal level where we do need to go 607 00:38:06,005 --> 00:38:09,580 from passively consuming, consuming, 608 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,020 consuming, and never quite being 609 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:17,100 filled. And realizing 610 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,620 I have something to offer. I may not be an expert in parenting, 611 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,495 but I have some experience I can share. And how much 612 00:38:24,495 --> 00:38:28,175 more meaningful and satisfying that is to someone than all of the 613 00:38:28,175 --> 00:38:31,775 books they could read by the so called experts. Some of whom don't 614 00:38:31,775 --> 00:38:35,329 even have kids. Yes. And I think the 615 00:38:35,470 --> 00:38:38,769 the challenge with the books is it's like an a to z, 616 00:38:39,549 --> 00:38:43,390 like, step by step process. And my experience so 617 00:38:43,390 --> 00:38:46,529 far is raising a kid is not a to z at all. 618 00:38:46,990 --> 00:38:49,725 So you kinda need more of like an encyclopedia 619 00:38:50,505 --> 00:38:54,125 approach where you're like, I just need this particular question 620 00:38:54,185 --> 00:38:58,025 answered right now. And you're right. That's where the 621 00:38:58,025 --> 00:39:01,809 giving part of being a community member, can 622 00:39:01,809 --> 00:39:05,250 be very satisfying. And I do find ways to do this on social 623 00:39:05,250 --> 00:39:09,030 media. I spend more time commenting than creating content. 624 00:39:09,250 --> 00:39:13,010 So that's just one of my ways of being a 625 00:39:13,010 --> 00:39:16,455 a good community member is, you know, 626 00:39:16,455 --> 00:39:20,295 finding conversations where I can contribute. And these days, a lot of 627 00:39:20,295 --> 00:39:24,135 them actually happen in closed community spaces. This is 628 00:39:24,135 --> 00:39:27,655 where the the definition of social media gets a little bit 629 00:39:27,655 --> 00:39:31,099 fuzzy. But for example, we're in a community 630 00:39:31,099 --> 00:39:34,779 together that feels very social to me, and that there are people 631 00:39:34,779 --> 00:39:38,539 posting and commenting. And I spend more time in those private 632 00:39:38,539 --> 00:39:42,000 communities than I do in, like, a public social media community. 633 00:39:42,875 --> 00:39:46,415 And I feel way more satisfied from those interactions 634 00:39:46,555 --> 00:39:50,395 versus the one on social media. So I don't know what this 635 00:39:50,395 --> 00:39:54,015 means for, like, the future of our post pandemic world, but 636 00:39:54,234 --> 00:39:58,015 I do think actively seeking out ways we can give as a community member 637 00:39:58,350 --> 00:40:02,110 can can give us some nourishment versus the, 638 00:40:02,430 --> 00:40:06,190 empty calories of consumption. I 639 00:40:06,190 --> 00:40:09,870 think it does have something to do with the the 640 00:40:09,870 --> 00:40:13,615 container. You know, the community that you speak of that were 641 00:40:13,615 --> 00:40:17,055 both memberships. I'm really satisfied by the 642 00:40:17,055 --> 00:40:20,895 connections, the communication, the conversations, that 643 00:40:20,895 --> 00:40:24,575 are happening there and how safe it feels Yeah. To 644 00:40:25,380 --> 00:40:29,140 because on social media, let's be honest, you can say the 645 00:40:29,140 --> 00:40:32,900 most innocuous thing. And it can be 646 00:40:32,980 --> 00:40:36,180 you can be like a sitting duck in the shooting gallery. Somebody may just decide 647 00:40:36,180 --> 00:40:40,015 to take a shot at you for any reason, no reason at all. And 648 00:40:40,015 --> 00:40:43,475 and there you are taking heat. In enclosed communities, 649 00:40:43,775 --> 00:40:47,615 you're gonna be protected by the the one who's creating the community. 650 00:40:47,615 --> 00:40:51,155 But I'm almost wondering because I've noticed that 651 00:40:51,375 --> 00:40:54,760 even people who want to give feedback on a 652 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,380 particular podcast episode, they're not leaving 653 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:02,200 reviews now. This is my experience. They're not leaving reviews. They're 654 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,895 DM ing me. They're sending me an email. They're going 655 00:41:05,895 --> 00:41:09,655 to my website and they're leaving their feedback feedback on 656 00:41:09,655 --> 00:41:13,115 the SpeakPipe widget because that's a personal 657 00:41:13,335 --> 00:41:17,095 private one on one connection. And I have a reputation 658 00:41:17,095 --> 00:41:20,910 like you. I respond personally. You're gonna send me a personal message, 659 00:41:20,910 --> 00:41:24,270 you're gonna hear from me. You're not gonna hear from someone on my team. And 660 00:41:24,270 --> 00:41:27,970 that feels very different. I mean, it's great to get podcast reviews, 661 00:41:28,670 --> 00:41:32,155 but they tend to be fashioned and 662 00:41:32,295 --> 00:41:35,974 and phrased and communicated in a way that's fit for public 663 00:41:35,974 --> 00:41:39,815 consumption. So people really think about what they're gonna say. And and most of the 664 00:41:39,815 --> 00:41:43,575 time, anybody could say it. But when they send a DM or an 665 00:41:43,575 --> 00:41:47,390 email, I'm getting really personal, 666 00:41:48,089 --> 00:41:50,829 vulnerable, really meaningful 667 00:41:51,450 --> 00:41:55,289 feedback. Like, this really spoke to me and I'm gonna tell 668 00:41:55,289 --> 00:41:58,730 you why. I don't think they're gonna do that on 669 00:41:58,730 --> 00:42:02,485 social. So I think what all of the things that you're 670 00:42:02,485 --> 00:42:06,325 saying make so much sense for where we are as a society, where 671 00:42:06,325 --> 00:42:09,765 we are culturally, where we are as business owners, and the 672 00:42:09,765 --> 00:42:13,525 unmet needs that people have that they're they're 673 00:42:13,525 --> 00:42:16,585 really starting to pay attention to and do something about. 674 00:42:17,849 --> 00:42:21,450 Yes. Yes. And I think the do something about is the key 675 00:42:21,450 --> 00:42:24,829 here because when we don't, we continue 676 00:42:25,130 --> 00:42:28,730 on the path that we're on, which means we're posting all of the places and 677 00:42:28,730 --> 00:42:32,205 we're feeling this, like, resentment of having to be on 678 00:42:32,365 --> 00:42:35,265 and available for all of these, frankly, strangers. 679 00:42:36,765 --> 00:42:40,445 And this is where I 680 00:42:40,445 --> 00:42:43,965 see so often business owners completely give up and they 681 00:42:43,965 --> 00:42:47,720 delete Instagram off their phone forever Mhmm. Without really 682 00:42:47,720 --> 00:42:51,480 stopping to analyze, you know, what's in it for me. They're just 683 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:55,160 like, I'm done. I'm burnt out. I need out out of this 684 00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,655 toxic situationship. And so 685 00:42:58,655 --> 00:43:02,495 this kind of analytical process could be very helpful to figure 686 00:43:02,495 --> 00:43:05,615 out if if you do need out. If you do need out, yes, absolutely take 687 00:43:05,615 --> 00:43:08,915 it. And there's still space to have meaningful 688 00:43:08,975 --> 00:43:12,755 connection on social media. And oftentimes for me, it's a starting point 689 00:43:12,950 --> 00:43:16,790 or it's just a continuation of a conversation I had someone somewhere else 690 00:43:16,790 --> 00:43:20,630 with someone. But it's that one to one conversation that I love the 691 00:43:20,630 --> 00:43:24,410 most about it. You mentioned a moment ago, Andréa, 692 00:43:24,710 --> 00:43:28,305 that, commenting more and 693 00:43:28,305 --> 00:43:31,765 posting less. And that's I'm 694 00:43:32,225 --> 00:43:35,665 creating this whole less but better, for 695 00:43:35,665 --> 00:43:39,359 2024. It makes a lot of sense if you are 696 00:43:39,359 --> 00:43:42,660 engaging with other people's content. You are making a contribution 697 00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:47,119 to a conversation that someone else started instead of hijacking the 698 00:43:47,119 --> 00:43:50,079 conversation and say, hey, but but wait, this is what I have to say. Or 699 00:43:50,079 --> 00:43:53,085 or hey, look over here. Or hey, listen, I wanna tell you this thing. It's 700 00:43:53,085 --> 00:43:56,685 like, no, you're making a contribution to a conversation that someone else 701 00:43:56,685 --> 00:44:00,365 already started. So posting less and 702 00:44:00,365 --> 00:44:04,045 commenting more is naturally a way to create 703 00:44:04,045 --> 00:44:07,680 more connection and possibly community because sometimes other 704 00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,660 people start then commenting on your stuff. What are some other 705 00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:14,820 simple but strategic ways that we can start 706 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,565 taking these little steps and then kind of measuring the result 707 00:44:18,565 --> 00:44:22,405 of how it feels to do so. Yes. Yes. I'm a huge 708 00:44:22,405 --> 00:44:26,165 fan of commenting over posting. And I like to comment as if I 709 00:44:26,165 --> 00:44:29,865 were posting. Right? So it's not just, you know, congratulations 710 00:44:30,165 --> 00:44:33,869 or nice pick or, you know, well done. It's really you know, 711 00:44:33,869 --> 00:44:37,549 if someone's asking a question, pausing and taking a moment to reflect 712 00:44:37,549 --> 00:44:41,390 and see how you can contribute to the conversation. Yeah. It takes 713 00:44:41,390 --> 00:44:44,369 some time, and sometimes I only get one comment out, 714 00:44:45,230 --> 00:44:48,795 in a day. Some days, I'm on fire, and I'm like, oh, I know what 715 00:44:48,795 --> 00:44:51,915 I'm gonna say for all of these things. So that that's one of the things 716 00:44:51,915 --> 00:44:55,515 that really helps for me. I also use, social 717 00:44:55,515 --> 00:44:59,135 media as a discovery tool. So 718 00:44:59,710 --> 00:45:03,490 oftentimes, when I'm looking for new partnerships or 719 00:45:03,550 --> 00:45:07,310 new podcasts to listen to, I start with social 720 00:45:07,310 --> 00:45:10,990 media. And so I use it as almost like a research tool, 721 00:45:10,990 --> 00:45:14,625 which I also find very satisfying. And then if I find 722 00:45:14,625 --> 00:45:18,305 someone who I do resonate with and connect with them, 723 00:45:18,305 --> 00:45:22,145 I'll also probably send them a direct message and tell them a little bit 724 00:45:22,145 --> 00:45:25,905 about why I connected with them. I used to teach 725 00:45:25,905 --> 00:45:29,720 a strategy about, you know, try to connect with 10 people a 726 00:45:29,720 --> 00:45:33,480 day, 5 days a week, but honestly, it can't 727 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:37,080 be that calculated. You you lose some of the 728 00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:40,839 magic of it when you start calculating it out that way. So I typically look 729 00:45:40,839 --> 00:45:44,535 at, you know, what do I need in my business and reach out and build 730 00:45:44,535 --> 00:45:48,135 connections that way. And the only examples I have are ones from 731 00:45:48,135 --> 00:45:51,734 years ago, because the connections I'm making now are gonna take years before 732 00:45:51,734 --> 00:45:54,475 they kind of incubate. But one of my favorite 733 00:45:55,190 --> 00:45:59,030 examples of this, is a guy named Travis Brown. I was 734 00:45:59,030 --> 00:46:02,870 looking for a podcast editor, and I was reaching out to a bunch 735 00:46:02,870 --> 00:46:06,230 of people on Instagram and saying, hey, I'm looking for a podcast 736 00:46:06,230 --> 00:46:09,895 editor. Do you wanna connect? And he was one of the 737 00:46:09,895 --> 00:46:13,734 people who I connected with, had, you know, the consultation call, ended 738 00:46:13,734 --> 00:46:17,494 up hiring him, and then we became friends. And it's like we we've gone 739 00:46:17,494 --> 00:46:21,255 to conferences together. We share updates about our kids, because 740 00:46:21,255 --> 00:46:25,050 he's got 2 kids. They're a little bit older than mine. So I've been 741 00:46:25,050 --> 00:46:28,810 asking him, like, parent of 2 kids questions, you know. He's now 742 00:46:28,810 --> 00:46:32,170 pivoted to work we work in the same field now. He started in podcasting. Now 743 00:46:32,170 --> 00:46:35,930 he's more in social media coaching. And so all of 744 00:46:35,930 --> 00:46:39,704 that came from an Instagram DM. And I'm speed talking through 745 00:46:39,704 --> 00:46:43,464 it, but it I met him in 2018 because 746 00:46:43,464 --> 00:46:47,305 that's when I launched a podcast. So 6 years ago, can I 747 00:46:47,305 --> 00:46:51,144 do math? It's it's been a minute. So 748 00:46:51,144 --> 00:46:54,869 when I think about the value of some of 749 00:46:54,869 --> 00:46:58,650 these micro interactions, they take a long time to to incubate. 750 00:46:58,710 --> 00:47:02,549 So commenting as a post, sending 751 00:47:02,549 --> 00:47:05,930 meaningful connections through research Mhmm. 752 00:47:06,470 --> 00:47:10,035 Those are the 2 my 2, like, favoritest ways to 753 00:47:10,035 --> 00:47:13,875 navigate social media as a business owner because it removes the pressure off 754 00:47:13,875 --> 00:47:17,635 of creating content. But the third way I'll give you, if you do 755 00:47:17,635 --> 00:47:21,315 wanna create content, screening content that's a response to something 756 00:47:21,315 --> 00:47:25,070 happening in your community. And, again, this is very challenging because I used to 757 00:47:25,070 --> 00:47:28,910 teach, a 5 pillar of content method. I 758 00:47:28,910 --> 00:47:32,670 remember. Yes. I'm easing away from because it 759 00:47:32,670 --> 00:47:36,205 doesn't fit how we navigate social 760 00:47:36,205 --> 00:47:39,105 media. It can be very helpful for beginner business owners, 761 00:47:39,965 --> 00:47:43,325 to have those pillars. But where we see the most success right 762 00:47:43,325 --> 00:47:47,165 now is when you have a client conversation and you 763 00:47:47,165 --> 00:47:50,930 feel impassioned about something, and if you like writing, you write about 764 00:47:50,930 --> 00:47:54,470 it. If you like speaking, you record yourself talking about that situation, 765 00:47:55,490 --> 00:47:59,170 because it's tangible. It's real. It's something that's actually happening in your 766 00:47:59,170 --> 00:48:02,849 business. Or maybe it's a response to something that's happening in your 767 00:48:02,849 --> 00:48:06,515 industry, in the world around you. Like, that response style 768 00:48:06,515 --> 00:48:09,974 content generally seems to work the best because it doesn't feel 769 00:48:10,035 --> 00:48:13,474 orchestrated. It doesn't feel planned. It doesn't feel like you have an 770 00:48:13,474 --> 00:48:17,154 agenda. And as consumers, we kinda can like, we know what an 771 00:48:17,154 --> 00:48:20,350 ad looks like, and you know what we do with the ads on YouTube? I 772 00:48:20,350 --> 00:48:24,110 cannot wait to press skip. So the same thing 773 00:48:24,110 --> 00:48:27,950 is happening on social media. When we can think about creating content that's 774 00:48:27,950 --> 00:48:31,470 a response, it it feels less like someone saying buy my 775 00:48:31,470 --> 00:48:35,285 thing and more like someone saying, hey, I have this idea. I'm 776 00:48:35,285 --> 00:48:38,805 starting a conversation. So those are the the the little 777 00:48:38,805 --> 00:48:42,245 things, little big things that you can do, to be 778 00:48:42,245 --> 00:48:44,985 mindful about how you approach your social media actions. 779 00:48:45,845 --> 00:48:48,825 I loved this idea about 780 00:48:49,410 --> 00:48:53,170 creating content that's a response. Because my mind 781 00:48:53,170 --> 00:48:56,849 is saying, well, sure. That makes sense. It's like 782 00:48:56,849 --> 00:49:00,230 q and a. You're closing the loop. 783 00:49:00,609 --> 00:49:04,150 Someone has a need. Someone has a question. Someone has a problem. 784 00:49:04,674 --> 00:49:08,454 And you're responding to it. So you're meeting their need. 785 00:49:08,515 --> 00:49:12,194 You're meeting your need for creating content. And chances are 786 00:49:12,194 --> 00:49:15,875 someone else has that need. And you're also creating 787 00:49:15,875 --> 00:49:19,670 a like a closed loop. Like this it's 788 00:49:19,670 --> 00:49:23,470 it's as close as possible to a conversation without being 789 00:49:23,470 --> 00:49:26,770 a conversation. It's an asynchronous conversation. 790 00:49:27,710 --> 00:49:31,310 And that is, of course, gonna feel more satisfying and 791 00:49:31,310 --> 00:49:35,135 probably gonna make it a whole lot easier to create content 792 00:49:35,275 --> 00:49:39,115 that way. Because most people I know say, oh, 793 00:49:39,115 --> 00:49:42,955 I can't do like solo episodes or just sit down in front of 794 00:49:42,955 --> 00:49:46,255 my screen and write out a blog post. But when someone 795 00:49:46,599 --> 00:49:50,280 asks me a question, then I can go to town. Okay. 796 00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,500 People are asking questions. You just need to find those questions and answer them. 797 00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:57,640 I love it. Absolutely. I love it too. And it it you're right. It does 798 00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,920 make it a lot easier. You can actually create content a lot faster because you're 799 00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:04,675 not having to, like, think of something from thin air. This has 800 00:50:04,675 --> 00:50:08,515 been one of the most satisfying conversations I've had in a long 801 00:50:08,515 --> 00:50:11,495 time because it really speaks to 802 00:50:12,355 --> 00:50:16,150 not social media on the superficial level, but really 803 00:50:16,210 --> 00:50:19,730 the bigger picture level of our culture, our 804 00:50:19,730 --> 00:50:23,430 community, how we as humans relate to one another. 805 00:50:23,650 --> 00:50:27,410 And if you are feeling like social media is something 806 00:50:27,410 --> 00:50:30,785 you wanna dump, you wanna run away from, you wanna break up 807 00:50:30,785 --> 00:50:33,605 with. If you need to do that, do that. 808 00:50:34,225 --> 00:50:38,065 But maybe you wanna consider some of the things that Andréa 809 00:50:38,065 --> 00:50:41,825 and I have been talking about as an alternative to see if 810 00:50:41,825 --> 00:50:45,660 you can't transform your relationship with social media into one 811 00:50:45,720 --> 00:50:48,540 that is both satisfying and sustainable.