1 00:00:00,719 --> 00:00:04,260 If you're curious about growing your newsletter without 2 00:00:04,560 --> 00:00:07,940 using social media, then this episode of the podcast 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:12,000 is for you. I'm excited to have the amazing Jessica Lackey 4 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:15,585 on the show to talk all about how she has built her newsletter 5 00:00:15,805 --> 00:00:18,925 without social, which I know is a dream for a lot of us. Before we 6 00:00:18,925 --> 00:00:22,465 get into the episode though, quick shout out to our sponsor, Riverside. 7 00:00:22,925 --> 00:00:26,625 We record and edit all of our podcasts inside of Riverside. 8 00:00:26,870 --> 00:00:30,410 It has really made things way more streamlined to have 9 00:00:30,550 --> 00:00:33,930 recording, editing, publishing, and even their super duper 10 00:00:33,990 --> 00:00:37,750 magical clips functionality all within the same tool. Their 11 00:00:37,750 --> 00:00:41,425 little AI robot finds the best clips from the show so I can really 12 00:00:41,425 --> 00:00:44,805 easily repurpose it over to social media. Try Riverside 13 00:00:44,945 --> 00:00:48,704 today by clicking the link in the show notes. Now let's get 14 00:00:48,704 --> 00:00:52,465 into this episode with Jessica Lackey. Jessica, welcome to 15 00:00:52,465 --> 00:00:55,920 the show. Thank you. Super happy to be here. I'm 16 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,520 excited to talk with you mostly because we met through the power of the 17 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,280 Internet. First of all, like our relationship, I feel like, has birthed 18 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:07,040 from, like, the very things that I talk about on this podcast episode. 19 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:10,845 So it feels serendipitous to to also have you on the show, and 20 00:01:10,845 --> 00:01:14,285 I'm excited to just pick your brain. But before we get 21 00:01:14,285 --> 00:01:17,965 into my questions for today, I wanna give our 22 00:01:17,965 --> 00:01:21,810 listeners a little bit of background about you, because 23 00:01:21,810 --> 00:01:25,350 you are what I would consider, a business 24 00:01:25,490 --> 00:01:29,090 consultant, but you have a very a very particular set 25 00:01:29,090 --> 00:01:32,549 of skills. So tell us a little bit about what you do. 26 00:01:33,170 --> 00:01:36,915 So I'm a business strategist and consultant who helps 27 00:01:36,915 --> 00:01:40,695 expert business owners design, build, and run sustainable 28 00:01:40,915 --> 00:01:44,375 businesses. I really approach business buildings from a 29 00:01:44,515 --> 00:01:47,895 systems philosophy, not like a tech and tools perspective, but 30 00:01:48,210 --> 00:01:51,650 how do we operate businesses based on how we're designing 31 00:01:51,650 --> 00:01:55,410 them, and then how does that structure what tools and tech we need, 32 00:01:55,410 --> 00:01:58,610 but also the processes and things we do on our business on a day to 33 00:01:58,610 --> 00:02:02,070 day basis. So that's where I spend my time and energy. 34 00:02:02,585 --> 00:02:05,965 Yes. And what I love about what you do is the sustainability 35 00:02:06,265 --> 00:02:10,025 part because I feel like there's so much we could do as 36 00:02:10,025 --> 00:02:13,865 business owners. Like, we could do, you know, a podcast or 37 00:02:13,865 --> 00:02:17,710 we could do YouTube or we could do, we could be on, you know, 38 00:02:17,770 --> 00:02:21,450 Asana or we could be in ClickUp. Right? Like, there's so many different ways that 39 00:02:21,450 --> 00:02:25,070 we can run our business. And what I love about the work that you do 40 00:02:25,210 --> 00:02:28,970 is you really, like, get to the heart of the matter and help business 41 00:02:28,970 --> 00:02:32,795 owners build something that they can actually use again and 42 00:02:32,795 --> 00:02:35,775 again over time. How did you get into this work? 43 00:02:36,795 --> 00:02:40,070 So my background is in business consulting. I ran a team, a large team doing 44 00:02:40,070 --> 00:02:43,920 supply and demand management at, Nike. So I was running, Nike. 45 00:02:43,980 --> 00:02:45,994 So I was running planning for women's training shoes and things like that. And I 46 00:02:45,994 --> 00:02:49,360 actually decided after a toxic corporate experience, I wanted to be a life coach. 47 00:02:49,500 --> 00:02:53,260 And while I was trying to build my business, I'm like, I 48 00:02:53,260 --> 00:02:55,760 don't think I'm doing it right. 49 00:02:59,235 --> 00:03:02,775 And so the more I learned about how to build my life coaching business, 50 00:03:02,995 --> 00:03:06,515 the more I realized how they've kind of 51 00:03:06,515 --> 00:03:09,955 abandoned the principles I've learned about business building from 52 00:03:09,955 --> 00:03:13,770 corporate and in my engineering background, and 53 00:03:14,950 --> 00:03:18,650 we're missing some of this, like, philosophy around how do we think about businesses 54 00:03:18,790 --> 00:03:22,630 beyond the online business ecosystem. And I was like, I don't see this 55 00:03:22,630 --> 00:03:26,250 being taught in the market. I don't see us blending these skill sets. 56 00:03:26,695 --> 00:03:29,435 I need this, so how can I bring this to my clients? 57 00:03:30,455 --> 00:03:33,995 Yes. Yes. And I love that corporate background as well because 58 00:03:34,375 --> 00:03:37,835 I do find that in a lot of our online spaces, 59 00:03:38,535 --> 00:03:42,340 we tend to be we tend to reject corporate 60 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:46,320 philosophy so much that sometimes we miss the 61 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,680 one the parts of it that are good. Right? And so I love that you're 62 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:53,084 blending, like, the structure, and the 63 00:03:53,084 --> 00:03:56,765 lessons you've learned from corporate and what you've learned from being life coaching 64 00:03:56,765 --> 00:04:00,605 into this new model and this new way of running business, which I love. 65 00:04:00,605 --> 00:04:04,205 Okay. Let's dive into the newsletter, though. So let's start at the 66 00:04:04,205 --> 00:04:07,840 beginning with the newsletter. When did you start the newsletter and and 67 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,439 what inspired you to start? So I actually 68 00:04:11,519 --> 00:04:15,120 this is my 3rd run of the newsletter. So I started a 69 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,959 newsletter to be a holistic nutritionist. That was before life coaching, and then I 70 00:04:18,959 --> 00:04:21,954 became a life coach and started a newsletter there because that's what the thing was. 71 00:04:21,954 --> 00:04:25,395 It was back when Mailchimp was popular. I mean, it might still be popular. I 72 00:04:25,395 --> 00:04:28,854 don't know. But that was the thing. It was like, 73 00:04:29,074 --> 00:04:32,595 you start a list. That was what all that's what all the cool kids were 74 00:04:32,595 --> 00:04:36,390 doing when I started in 2018 with life coaching, but 75 00:04:36,390 --> 00:04:39,350 really 2021, I was like, yeah. I have a list. That's when I went full 76 00:04:39,350 --> 00:04:42,810 time. And so I was on Mailchimp for a year, 77 00:04:43,270 --> 00:04:46,790 and I'm like, everyone says you write gotta write a newsletter every week. So I 78 00:04:46,790 --> 00:04:50,535 wrote a newsletter every week, and it's been going strong for 3 79 00:04:50,535 --> 00:04:54,375 years now. Yes. I love it. Okay. So talk to 80 00:04:54,375 --> 00:04:57,735 me about how the newsletter plays with the rest of your 81 00:04:57,735 --> 00:05:01,440 marketing and with your business. Like, what role does it serve for you? 82 00:05:01,840 --> 00:05:05,140 So the role has changed over time. It used to be I thought it was 83 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:09,200 kind of sales material, like email marketing for 84 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,500 sales, and it turns out I'm really bad at writing those. 85 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,160 And then at some point in time, I think this was right about when I 86 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,735 went full time, people started I started 87 00:05:19,735 --> 00:05:23,575 seeing Substacks, and I'm like, oh, this is a product in and 88 00:05:23,575 --> 00:05:27,175 of itself. And I crafted 89 00:05:27,495 --> 00:05:31,095 I changed the positioning of the newsletter to be a specific product. 90 00:05:31,095 --> 00:05:34,650 Like, you could come in and learn what I'm teaching 91 00:05:34,650 --> 00:05:37,450 for free because I was really also tired of gatekeeping a lot of knowledge at 92 00:05:37,450 --> 00:05:40,650 that point. Like, you can, like, you can get what you need from my newsletter. 93 00:05:40,650 --> 00:05:44,250 This is not a sales tool. This is a educational tool, and 94 00:05:44,250 --> 00:05:46,990 it's a way for me to think more deeply 95 00:05:47,715 --> 00:05:51,095 about the topics I wanna talk about. So 96 00:05:51,555 --> 00:05:55,315 it shifted from a a sales tool, I'm not good at that, to more 97 00:05:55,315 --> 00:05:58,855 of a exploration of the topics that I wanna explore 98 00:05:59,155 --> 00:06:02,830 and share with people, because I I also didn't wanna have, like, cool 99 00:06:02,830 --> 00:06:06,430 thoughts and not share them. And so that's what my newsletter is. Yeah. 100 00:06:06,430 --> 00:06:10,030 So how do you see actually making sales from the 101 00:06:10,030 --> 00:06:13,630 newsletter? Since it's not a sales tool, how do you make money from it, I 102 00:06:13,630 --> 00:06:17,324 should say? At the bottom of my emails, I do have a PS would 103 00:06:17,324 --> 00:06:20,845 like to work with me, so I have those. I have the the super 104 00:06:20,845 --> 00:06:24,604 signature at the bottom. But it's really the I really use 105 00:06:24,604 --> 00:06:28,410 this as an educational tool to get people hearing about 106 00:06:28,410 --> 00:06:32,010 what I do and get people hearing how I think. And over time, I show 107 00:06:32,010 --> 00:06:35,690 up 10 AM EST every single Sunday. And so 108 00:06:35,690 --> 00:06:39,530 people are like, oh, you're saying interesting things. I like how you think. That's just 109 00:06:39,530 --> 00:06:43,095 the beginning of the process for me. From my newsletter, I 110 00:06:43,095 --> 00:06:46,775 offer a monthly free call, and I have 111 00:06:46,935 --> 00:06:50,534 I've started adding some lower options in there. And so I do when it's I 112 00:06:50,534 --> 00:06:54,169 launch a program twice a year, I launch things. But that's 113 00:06:54,169 --> 00:06:57,290 almost separate from the newsletter. The newsletter is really like, here's how I think, and 114 00:06:57,290 --> 00:07:00,729 if you like this, work with me. And if you don't like this, 115 00:07:00,729 --> 00:07:04,410 then unsubscribe. But it's really been a 116 00:07:04,410 --> 00:07:07,725 way to build real relationships with people over over the years. 117 00:07:08,285 --> 00:07:12,125 And see, this is why I like email marketing and newsletters because there's there's 118 00:07:12,125 --> 00:07:15,885 an intimacy in it that is a little bit different from 119 00:07:15,885 --> 00:07:19,725 social media. And this is coming from someone who's a social media professional. Right? Like, 120 00:07:19,725 --> 00:07:23,320 I love social media for what it is, and anyone 121 00:07:23,460 --> 00:07:27,220 can see it at any time. And sometimes your post 122 00:07:27,220 --> 00:07:30,900 hit the algorithm weird and you're suddenly like, people who shouldn't be in your in 123 00:07:30,900 --> 00:07:34,360 your world are there and they're saying mean things. Whereas 124 00:07:34,740 --> 00:07:38,544 with something as intimate as a newsletter, people have to 125 00:07:38,544 --> 00:07:42,225 kind of opt in to get that information. And so it does 126 00:07:42,225 --> 00:07:45,825 breed intimacy in that process. Do you have any, 127 00:07:45,825 --> 00:07:49,665 like, highlight moments or wins from some of that intimacy with 128 00:07:49,665 --> 00:07:53,439 your audience and with your community? So I was 129 00:07:53,439 --> 00:07:57,280 in Miami with some other, online business collaborator folks, and 130 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,719 I got a submission form to work with me. And it 131 00:08:00,719 --> 00:08:04,425 was someone had been passed my newsletter, and they read a 132 00:08:04,425 --> 00:08:07,625 couple of the issues on my blog because I post things in my newsletter on 133 00:08:07,625 --> 00:08:11,465 my blog, and they came in saying, I read your 134 00:08:11,465 --> 00:08:14,365 piece on business models, and I need to talk to you. 135 00:08:15,305 --> 00:08:18,525 And these were long form 1500 136 00:08:18,745 --> 00:08:22,120 word, 2,000 word pieces that someone 137 00:08:22,340 --> 00:08:26,180 someone thought it was interesting enough to forward to a friend, and 138 00:08:26,180 --> 00:08:29,080 they thought it was interesting enough to go online and learn more things 139 00:08:29,620 --> 00:08:33,059 and subscribed and and fill out a form to work 140 00:08:33,059 --> 00:08:35,914 together. And I didn't have to do anything. That piece 141 00:08:36,454 --> 00:08:39,595 has gone many it's it's been shared a bunch, 142 00:08:40,135 --> 00:08:43,914 but I didn't have to keep creating things. It was someone 143 00:08:43,975 --> 00:08:47,495 knew my philosophies before I had a chance to talk with them. I'm like, well, 144 00:08:47,495 --> 00:08:51,160 that's the easiest sell I'll ever make. Yeah. It's the best feeling in the 145 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,680 world when someone starts quoting back your work to you, and you're like, oh, you 146 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,600 you've been paying attention. Yes. There are 147 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:02,235 people who, I'm in the middle of a program launch right now. So I do 148 00:09:02,235 --> 00:09:05,695 my launches or like I I write an additional email every week 149 00:09:06,075 --> 00:09:09,695 to that launch. I'm like a I'm a terrible launcher. But 150 00:09:09,755 --> 00:09:13,274 people are like, I've been reading your newsletters for years, and I've 151 00:09:13,274 --> 00:09:17,089 been waiting for the next time this enrolls. And I they know how 152 00:09:17,089 --> 00:09:20,930 I think, and they get on the call and they're like, I want to improve 153 00:09:20,930 --> 00:09:24,550 my systems and structures. And I'm like, yay. Awesome. 154 00:09:25,970 --> 00:09:29,815 My newsletter, it doesn't yes. It's for them, but it's for me to 155 00:09:29,815 --> 00:09:33,655 think more deeply about what I'm teaching and 156 00:09:33,655 --> 00:09:37,415 connect the dots for me. It's like writing is thinking to be a better 157 00:09:37,415 --> 00:09:40,955 writer, to be a better teacher, to be a better coach and consultant. 158 00:09:41,829 --> 00:09:45,670 Like, this is an an avenue for me to explore putting things and frameworks together 159 00:09:45,670 --> 00:09:48,870 and having forcing mechanism, and then other people get to read it. And other people 160 00:09:48,870 --> 00:09:52,649 then quote it back to me and know about my life and know about 161 00:09:53,190 --> 00:09:56,230 what's going on with things I do share about me a little bit in the 162 00:09:56,230 --> 00:09:59,505 newsletter. And people are like, I like this. I like you. And 163 00:09:59,965 --> 00:10:03,165 I feel like I don't I don't have to do a lot. It's like, yes, 164 00:10:03,165 --> 00:10:06,685 publishing it is hard, but it I don't feel like I have to impress 165 00:10:06,685 --> 00:10:10,220 anybody. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel 166 00:10:10,220 --> 00:10:13,819 like the fact that you're writing it for yourself as well is like 167 00:10:13,819 --> 00:10:17,440 you're already getting you're already getting that, like, serotonin 168 00:10:18,139 --> 00:10:21,834 boost from, like, oh, I did the thing before you even send it because, and 169 00:10:21,834 --> 00:10:25,515 I'm saying this to someone who I feel the same way about my newsletter, is 170 00:10:25,515 --> 00:10:29,195 like it it there's a sense of satisfaction when you produce this work 171 00:10:29,195 --> 00:10:32,315 and you do think of it as a product. So I do have a big 172 00:10:32,315 --> 00:10:35,515 question for you though. It's it's a little bit of like the elephant in the 173 00:10:35,515 --> 00:10:38,890 room to me because because people have to sign up for the 174 00:10:38,890 --> 00:10:42,649 newsletter. My biggest question is, well, then how do you grow 175 00:10:42,649 --> 00:10:45,690 it? How do you make people aware of it? So what are some of the 176 00:10:45,690 --> 00:10:48,750 strategies you're doing to bring in new, 177 00:10:49,209 --> 00:10:52,454 subscribers if you're not using social media? Yep. 178 00:10:53,555 --> 00:10:57,394 So the first stage in my marketing is always connection with new people. The good 179 00:10:57,394 --> 00:11:00,675 news is I like my I think my newsletter is actually good enough that people 180 00:11:00,675 --> 00:11:04,355 share it with their friends. So people people 181 00:11:04,355 --> 00:11:07,960 forward it, people share it. So that's one. Like, I get a lot of people 182 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,780 who just subscribe to the newsletter from it being shared. 183 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:15,240 Another avenue is podcast like this. So I that's one of my primary 184 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:19,080 awareness strategies is guesting on podcast and saying I have a newsletter 185 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:22,595 on my podcast. I'm in a number of communities. And, again, 186 00:11:22,894 --> 00:11:26,334 people, you know, people wanna get to know and support each other in communities, which 187 00:11:26,334 --> 00:11:29,695 is really helpful. And then, I also am part of the 188 00:11:29,695 --> 00:11:33,390 convert kit creator network. And so that I 189 00:11:33,390 --> 00:11:37,230 have if it's people who are recommending me and 190 00:11:37,230 --> 00:11:41,070 it's because we have a shared relationship, those, usually are high quality subscribers. If 191 00:11:41,070 --> 00:11:44,670 it's smart recommendations, I have to usually manually 192 00:11:44,670 --> 00:11:48,405 unsubscribe people who I'm like, you're never opening my stuff. I I have an automation 193 00:11:48,405 --> 00:11:51,925 that sets it up, and I'm like I'm like, I don't know where you came 194 00:11:51,925 --> 00:11:54,805 from. This is not a good fit, so I'm just I'm you're never gonna buy 195 00:11:54,805 --> 00:11:58,345 it. I don't want you to depress my open rates too bad. Yeah. Yeah. 196 00:11:58,629 --> 00:12:01,610 Okay. I love this too because I think sometimes 197 00:12:02,790 --> 00:12:06,629 as business owners, as marketers, we feel like we have to be on 198 00:12:06,629 --> 00:12:10,310 social media. And I'm always the first one to say, like, it's just one 199 00:12:10,310 --> 00:12:14,155 tool in the marketing toolbox. There are other ways to market and 200 00:12:14,155 --> 00:12:17,195 you've, you're a great example of that. 201 00:12:17,675 --> 00:12:21,115 Podcast guesting being a great example of getting in front of new 202 00:12:21,115 --> 00:12:24,955 audiences and putting your work out there and building your your list 203 00:12:24,955 --> 00:12:28,800 that way. Yeah. This is great. So have you 204 00:12:29,020 --> 00:12:32,860 completely removed yourself from social, or what what's your relationship with social media 205 00:12:32,860 --> 00:12:36,640 right now? So Instagram is it's a static grid. 206 00:12:37,180 --> 00:12:40,735 It's I I log in to check messages and I, like, log in on my 207 00:12:40,735 --> 00:12:44,115 desktop occasionally, but that's not I don't 208 00:12:44,415 --> 00:12:48,254 find it personally enjoyable. It's, I don't I don't love the 209 00:12:48,254 --> 00:12:51,875 platform as, like, a consumer. I'm on LinkedIn 210 00:12:52,220 --> 00:12:55,980 pretty I'm like, LinkedIn a couple times regularly, but I like, LinkedIn does 211 00:12:55,980 --> 00:12:59,760 seem to penalize the links to the newsletter. Like, it, like, diminishes 212 00:12:59,900 --> 00:13:03,600 external links. So I'm there to, like, talk with people and make friends, 213 00:13:03,980 --> 00:13:07,685 and then they tend to subscribe to the newsletter because we all 214 00:13:07,685 --> 00:13:10,904 know we have one. I'm on threads as like a lurker. 215 00:13:13,444 --> 00:13:17,204 I I haven't figured out how to I yeah. I'm a lurker, and 216 00:13:17,204 --> 00:13:20,210 then I'm a commenter, and I'm an engager, but I'm not a poster. And then 217 00:13:20,210 --> 00:13:23,730 I'm on Twitter just as a consumer sometimes. And, like, I think really what I'm 218 00:13:23,730 --> 00:13:27,410 discovering on social media is I like interacting with my friends. Yes. I 219 00:13:27,410 --> 00:13:31,250 like interacting with my friends on social media, and my friends tell people about 220 00:13:31,250 --> 00:13:34,450 my work. And then a lot of times they say, and she has a great 221 00:13:34,450 --> 00:13:38,125 newsletter. Oh, if I have a fangirl moment, so 222 00:13:38,584 --> 00:13:42,345 there's Regina, by Regina TV. I'm never gonna pronounce her last name 223 00:13:42,345 --> 00:13:46,105 right. She's amazing. And I have been an avid fan of her work for years. 224 00:13:46,105 --> 00:13:49,945 And we were on a networking call, and she's like, oh, I've heard about your 225 00:13:49,945 --> 00:13:53,570 newsletters. And I'm like, okay. That's when in my 226 00:13:53,570 --> 00:13:56,770 little corner of the world, I know I've made it, which is when someone whose 227 00:13:56,770 --> 00:14:00,130 work I deeply admire and cite a lot 228 00:14:00,130 --> 00:14:03,730 and, you know, she's influenced a lot of the way I think about my 229 00:14:03,730 --> 00:14:07,525 newsletter and about the assets I'm creating. Someone says, I've heard that you have a 230 00:14:07,525 --> 00:14:11,125 weekly newsletter. That's amazing. And I'm like, okay. Now I know that, 231 00:14:11,125 --> 00:14:14,965 like, this thing is it's something that is people look forward 232 00:14:14,965 --> 00:14:18,165 to. I'm I'm tempted to, like, skip a week when I go to Europe, but 233 00:14:18,165 --> 00:14:20,985 then I'm like, no. But, like, that breaks trust, and I don't wanna do that. 234 00:14:21,620 --> 00:14:25,240 Yeah. Okay. I'm fangirling with you because I left Regina. And, like, 235 00:14:25,380 --> 00:14:29,140 also, I like, her emails, literally, I just bookmark them and put 236 00:14:29,140 --> 00:14:31,800 them in a folder and I'm like, I need to go back and read this. 237 00:14:31,940 --> 00:14:35,605 She did this whole breakdown recently, and she did it all 238 00:14:35,605 --> 00:14:39,065 inside of, like, a Notion dashboard. And I have that thing bookmarked 239 00:14:39,205 --> 00:14:42,585 because I'm like, this is so good. And it she's like, 240 00:14:42,805 --> 00:14:46,425 over delivers in everything she does. And now that you've said that, I see 241 00:14:46,580 --> 00:14:49,800 that you've gotten that inspiration from her because of the way 242 00:14:50,260 --> 00:14:54,100 that she does work. And then now she, like, recognizes your 243 00:14:54,100 --> 00:14:57,300 work as well. I'm, like, just like pat on the back, friend. That was real 244 00:14:57,380 --> 00:15:01,095 I love that. Yeah. And and one of the things that I learned, 245 00:15:01,795 --> 00:15:05,475 is how do we I'll you know, I'm a big fan of social 246 00:15:05,475 --> 00:15:08,275 media as a I like reading and I like seeing it, but for me, my 247 00:15:08,275 --> 00:15:11,895 newsletter is also not ephemeral. There's the kind of appreciating content. 248 00:15:12,195 --> 00:15:15,930 I'm not writing a weekly newsletter that just goes. 249 00:15:15,930 --> 00:15:19,450 Right? That I wrote a I wrote, I think, 8 250 00:15:19,450 --> 00:15:23,290 pieces this summer on building the 6 business systems. Like, I wrote a philosophy 251 00:15:23,290 --> 00:15:27,005 about the systems. I wrote a blog post for each of the 252 00:15:27,005 --> 00:15:30,525 6 systems that I talk about in building your business that led into an 253 00:15:30,525 --> 00:15:34,365 assessment, that led into a presentation. Each of those systems is 254 00:15:34,365 --> 00:15:38,205 linked on my blog post, and they're linked in different emails related to 255 00:15:38,285 --> 00:15:41,940 I mean, it all comes together. It just happens to get shipped in a 256 00:15:41,940 --> 00:15:45,460 newsletter, but these aren't for me, the newsletter is 257 00:15:45,460 --> 00:15:49,140 not content that just is goes into an archive and just never gets seen 258 00:15:49,140 --> 00:15:52,900 again. Like, it it's thoughtful. It's, like, it's frameworks that I'm working 259 00:15:52,900 --> 00:15:56,280 on developing. It's assets that just happen to get mailed through email. 260 00:15:57,195 --> 00:16:01,035 Okay. I wanna I wanna dive deeper into how you create the email itself. 261 00:16:01,035 --> 00:16:04,415 Because one of the really common challenges 262 00:16:04,795 --> 00:16:08,175 I see when, someone comes to me for, like, consulting 263 00:16:08,475 --> 00:16:11,840 or coaching and marketing is that the 264 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:15,140 actual product itself needs 265 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:19,040 improvement because I'll I'll put this in 266 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,560 the kindest way possible. If this is you listening, don't judge yourself. Just 267 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:26,245 recognize this maybe where you are. But sometimes we try to 268 00:16:26,245 --> 00:16:30,025 market our business as better than what it actually is. 269 00:16:30,405 --> 00:16:34,005 K? So, like, that's why we feel resistance sometimes. That's why it's harder 270 00:16:34,005 --> 00:16:37,605 sometimes because we're trying to, like, paint this picture of 271 00:16:37,605 --> 00:16:41,060 this amazing thing. And then we get there and it's not quite 272 00:16:41,060 --> 00:16:44,900 matching the picture. I think real estate agents do this really well with, 273 00:16:44,900 --> 00:16:48,580 like, how they describe homes. They're like, it's cozy 274 00:16:48,580 --> 00:16:52,260 and then you go and you're like, this is a closet. And 275 00:16:52,260 --> 00:16:56,105 so I feel like that's that's how sometimes we we approach our marketing. But 276 00:16:56,165 --> 00:16:59,925 what I recognize in your work is that the reason 277 00:16:59,925 --> 00:17:03,605 why people forward this and share it is because it's 278 00:17:03,605 --> 00:17:07,409 just that good. Right? And you can do all the 279 00:17:07,409 --> 00:17:10,690 marketing tactics in the world and if the product isn't good, it doesn't matter. And 280 00:17:10,690 --> 00:17:14,289 so you're able to actually leverage the deep 281 00:17:14,289 --> 00:17:18,130 relationships you have with your community because of the trust that 282 00:17:18,130 --> 00:17:20,690 you've built with them and it's just an admirable thing. So I say all that 283 00:17:20,690 --> 00:17:22,244 to say, I wanna dive into the actual structure of the 284 00:17:26,165 --> 00:17:29,785 key piece in the marketing. It's almost like marketing for itself. 285 00:17:31,125 --> 00:17:34,345 Okay. So you have the deeper business 286 00:17:34,565 --> 00:17:38,370 newsletter. You're sitting down to write it. Where do 287 00:17:38,370 --> 00:17:40,710 you start with choosing a topic? 288 00:17:41,810 --> 00:17:45,570 So I now it's taken me a very long time. There's usually 289 00:17:45,570 --> 00:17:49,250 either a client question that I've been noodling 290 00:17:49,250 --> 00:17:52,875 on or a framework I 291 00:17:52,875 --> 00:17:56,715 want to develop that I've been noodling on or a hot 292 00:17:56,715 --> 00:18:00,475 take that I wanna put out there. But now I've 293 00:18:00,475 --> 00:18:04,200 also after writing this for now 3 years, I have like this 294 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,960 kind of design build run deliver type of framework 295 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:11,640 methodology. And so I'm I'm always compiling a list 296 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:15,480 of topics, and if I decide there's enough topics for a series, I like 297 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:19,005 write that down. I'm always generating list of topics in my 298 00:18:19,005 --> 00:18:22,845 Notion database, and I'm always, again, thinking like multipurpose assets. 299 00:18:22,845 --> 00:18:26,445 A client asked me this question, how can this become a newsletter? How can that 300 00:18:26,445 --> 00:18:30,250 become a template or a tool later down the line? But I'm 301 00:18:30,490 --> 00:18:33,290 I have a a library of list, and a lot of times they start from, 302 00:18:33,290 --> 00:18:36,090 like, a thing. Like, I'm like, this is an insight or this is a snippet 303 00:18:36,090 --> 00:18:39,370 or a quote or somewhere. So those are just in a big ass database in 304 00:18:39,370 --> 00:18:43,070 Notion. And then, usually, I'm 305 00:18:43,130 --> 00:18:46,865 taking notes on that topic for a week or 306 00:18:46,865 --> 00:18:50,465 2 in advance. So I might have, like, 3 to 5 topics that I'm developing 307 00:18:50,465 --> 00:18:54,305 and collecting snippets and insights and ahas. And then on, 308 00:18:54,305 --> 00:18:57,800 usually, Saturdays, I sit down and spend 2 309 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:01,679 like an hour and a half writing and editing the thing. But I've, like, 310 00:19:01,679 --> 00:19:04,820 I've got, like, 4 to 5 in process at a given time 311 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:09,120 because I'm I'm always thinking this is an idea, but, like, 312 00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:12,000 this is not fully baked yet. This is an idea I need to think about 313 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,695 it. My newsletter I wrote this the newsletter I wrote 314 00:19:15,695 --> 00:19:19,535 this week, it's a it's connecting, someone else's work about author 315 00:19:19,535 --> 00:19:23,375 ecosystems to, my philosophies on, like, business design. And 316 00:19:23,375 --> 00:19:26,975 I've been, like, talking about this person and their work for with my 317 00:19:26,975 --> 00:19:30,610 clients for, I'm like, this is the 4th time I mentioned this. I just need 318 00:19:30,610 --> 00:19:34,150 to write it down and send it out. And so, 319 00:19:34,530 --> 00:19:37,490 those are where it comes from. It's all but I'm, like, collecting the ideas in 320 00:19:37,490 --> 00:19:41,090 Notion database. Yeah. Okay. So I 321 00:19:41,090 --> 00:19:44,585 think there's a few things I wanna highlight in what you just 322 00:19:44,585 --> 00:19:48,044 said. The first is that you're constantly listening 323 00:19:48,424 --> 00:19:52,184 to your interactions that you're having in your business and 324 00:19:52,184 --> 00:19:55,485 having an awareness of, like, reflecting that back in your marketing. 325 00:19:56,265 --> 00:19:59,480 And I think that this is a really important lesson, 326 00:19:59,940 --> 00:20:03,700 especially for people who are new to marketing in this 327 00:20:03,700 --> 00:20:07,139 way. Is that if you sit down and you go, I have to write a 328 00:20:07,139 --> 00:20:10,419 newsletter today. I don't know if it's just me. Mine goes blank. I'm like, I 329 00:20:10,419 --> 00:20:13,914 don't what are words? Well, I don't even know what I'm talking about right 330 00:20:13,914 --> 00:20:17,755 now. But if you can be, like, somehow bottle up and capture those 331 00:20:17,755 --> 00:20:21,275 moments where, you know, you are with your clients and customers. They ask a 332 00:20:21,275 --> 00:20:24,655 question, you see yourself repeating the answer, that's content. 333 00:20:25,115 --> 00:20:28,919 Right? That's content. And so I love that you have captured that. 334 00:20:29,220 --> 00:20:32,820 And then how far in advance you work as well. It's not that 335 00:20:32,820 --> 00:20:36,580 you're, you know, sitting on Saturday to write the Sunday one every week. You kinda 336 00:20:36,580 --> 00:20:40,340 have these ideas and you're thinking about them and they're kind of percolating in the 337 00:20:40,340 --> 00:20:44,095 background. So when you go to to sit 338 00:20:44,095 --> 00:20:47,855 down and write the newsletter, you mentioned that you had, like, these these 339 00:20:47,855 --> 00:20:51,635 pillars. Are you always trying to connect them back to the pillars to lead people, 340 00:20:51,695 --> 00:20:55,075 you know, somewhere else in the funnel? Or, like, what's your thought process around 341 00:20:55,535 --> 00:20:59,320 this marketing asset? Sometimes I connect it 342 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,840 to different other pieces I've written, which is really nice, 343 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:07,720 and, but I'm always thinking it usually fits 344 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,555 in one of these. It's either in fits in some kind of framework I 345 00:21:11,555 --> 00:21:15,155 have, which is why I think it's really important to have, a framework for, 346 00:21:15,155 --> 00:21:18,835 like, what you talk about and, like, how your business works. Is it a 347 00:21:18,835 --> 00:21:22,675 process, or is it, like, a set of things you talk about? Not content pillars, 348 00:21:22,675 --> 00:21:25,890 but, like, how you work pillars. Like like, they're 349 00:21:26,370 --> 00:21:30,210 one of my one of my coaches, he's gonna always talk about resonance overreach 350 00:21:30,210 --> 00:21:33,990 and personal storytelling, and that's not it's a skill I've 351 00:21:34,210 --> 00:21:37,270 developed for him, but it's not one of my core, like, how I work principles. 352 00:21:38,290 --> 00:21:42,125 So and I think another thing that, from a content perspective 353 00:21:42,125 --> 00:21:45,965 too is, I get subscribed to a lot of email newsletters and I was 354 00:21:45,965 --> 00:21:49,805 subscribed to a lot of sales and marketing. And half the newsletters over 355 00:21:49,805 --> 00:21:53,620 the summer were, like, straight up reaction post to, like, the reason I don't 356 00:21:53,620 --> 00:21:56,740 want you to buy this thing is not because this thing is bad. It's because 357 00:21:56,740 --> 00:22:00,500 this thing is not designed for you. I wanna 358 00:22:00,500 --> 00:22:04,180 teach you about that. And I had consumed a lot of 359 00:22:04,180 --> 00:22:07,785 content, and I'm looking for, like, where do I have a 360 00:22:07,785 --> 00:22:11,625 philosophical disagreement with something? And instead of being like a takedown 361 00:22:11,625 --> 00:22:14,905 piece because that's who wants to read a takedown? That's just not that's not my 362 00:22:14,905 --> 00:22:18,745 style. But how am I like, okay. How does this bolster 363 00:22:18,745 --> 00:22:22,559 something that I wanna tell my audience and tell my tell my people? Like, this 364 00:22:22,559 --> 00:22:25,440 is I I clearly had a reaction to this why, and I write that down. 365 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:29,039 So I'm consuming so much, and then I'm documenting my reactions to 366 00:22:29,039 --> 00:22:32,880 it. Yes. Okay. So there is some consumption to this 367 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,659 as well. I'm curious how much time you think you spend 368 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,435 on consuming. Because right before this, we recorded as well, you 369 00:22:40,435 --> 00:22:43,795 were talking about all the podcasts you listen to and all the newsletters you read. 370 00:22:43,795 --> 00:22:47,075 Like, do you have an estimate for how much time you spend on that each 371 00:22:47,075 --> 00:22:50,055 week? Podcast alone, like, 372 00:22:50,900 --> 00:22:54,500 3 hours a day. It's so bad. It's it's really kinda ridiculous. But, like, I 373 00:22:54,500 --> 00:22:58,340 I listen to podcast when I'm walking, and I listen to podcast when I'm cooking 374 00:22:58,340 --> 00:23:02,179 and things like that. And this is a bit of my hobby, 375 00:23:02,179 --> 00:23:05,400 I would say. Like, business building is a hobby and it's my business, which is 376 00:23:05,575 --> 00:23:08,615 questionable on whether or not that's, like, blurring some boundaries for a whole lot of 377 00:23:08,615 --> 00:23:12,375 y'all. But, I I find it really interesting. I'm like a I'm I've 378 00:23:12,375 --> 00:23:16,075 been a student at heart my whole life. But I would say it's really important 379 00:23:16,135 --> 00:23:19,245 to listen to your clients, but also just, like, keep tabs on what's going on 380 00:23:19,245 --> 00:23:22,880 in the marketplace. I don't and I think that's, 381 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,320 like, because I don't see I'm actually not on social media that much, so all 382 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,760 my consumption time is on email and podcasts and books and things like 383 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,440 that. Yeah. I'm the same. I'm I constantly have a podcast 384 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:37,075 going and depending on my mood, it's like a just for fun podcast or it 385 00:23:37,075 --> 00:23:40,835 could be like a business podcast. But as someone who, like, 386 00:23:40,835 --> 00:23:44,674 I always put turn in my homework. If the teacher said read pages 10 through 387 00:23:44,674 --> 00:23:48,290 20, I read all the pages. Like, that's just and I read and I read 388 00:23:48,290 --> 00:23:51,970 ahead. My husband teases me for about this all the time because 389 00:23:51,970 --> 00:23:55,490 I'm very much, like, oh, that's the rules. Like, we gotta follow the rules and 390 00:23:55,490 --> 00:23:59,090 we have to turn our homework. So, I definitely relate to that piece of it 391 00:23:59,090 --> 00:24:02,825 as well. So I wanna go back to something else you mentioned as well. 392 00:24:02,885 --> 00:24:06,585 Your PS at the bottom of each newsletter. 393 00:24:06,725 --> 00:24:10,025 I've seen this strategy done a lot. It's very common. 394 00:24:10,885 --> 00:24:14,345 I wanna talk about what you decided to put in your PS 395 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,260 and how that is working for you. How do you track success there? 396 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,720 Yeah. I have 3 offers right now. I have my, a 397 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:26,320 new membership, which is kind of like a light lift model. I have my 398 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,065 deeper foundations group program that's, a cohort based business building model 399 00:24:30,065 --> 00:24:32,805 that opens twice a year, and then I have my 1 on 1 work. 400 00:24:34,065 --> 00:24:37,825 Right now, like, the deeper foundations, it's, I 401 00:24:37,825 --> 00:24:40,805 mean, it's like a sign up it's sign up for the wait list, like, 50% 402 00:24:41,185 --> 00:24:44,370 or 50 month weeks of the year, and then it's like, and it's open now 403 00:24:44,370 --> 00:24:47,670 for 2 weeks and 1 on 1. Like, I have 404 00:24:48,050 --> 00:24:51,670 openings every so often, that I currently, 405 00:24:51,730 --> 00:24:55,170 people just, like, book like, they book a they fill out an application. They book 406 00:24:55,170 --> 00:24:58,804 a call. So, it's kind of like the always open, but I 407 00:24:58,804 --> 00:25:02,325 haven't really had to, like, launch something when I'm usually doing, like, a workshop or 408 00:25:02,325 --> 00:25:05,845 something that's, like, time sensitive. I'm truly launching it. It gets a special 409 00:25:05,845 --> 00:25:09,605 segment in my newsletter. These are all kinda like my my 3 always on 410 00:25:09,605 --> 00:25:13,350 offers, and they're just there for anyone who finds them. But I 411 00:25:13,350 --> 00:25:17,110 have special callouts for, again, like workshops and things. And when the 412 00:25:17,110 --> 00:25:20,890 program is up for enrollment, it gets a special spot in my newsletter. 413 00:25:21,830 --> 00:25:25,190 Yeah. Okay. I love this. I've been hesitant to, 414 00:25:25,670 --> 00:25:29,514 implement this strategy just because as a on, like, the 415 00:25:29,514 --> 00:25:32,955 consumer side, I tend to skip it. Like, personally, I almost 416 00:25:32,955 --> 00:25:36,794 never read the PS part of the emails. And 417 00:25:36,794 --> 00:25:40,394 also, I think as a marketer, same as you, I just read a lot of 418 00:25:40,394 --> 00:25:44,190 emails. So I just very rarely click those links anyways. 419 00:25:45,530 --> 00:25:49,210 And I see the value in it, especially if people are forwarding your 420 00:25:49,210 --> 00:25:52,890 emails. Like, if that's a big part of the strategy, that means 421 00:25:52,890 --> 00:25:56,490 not only are the people that this was forwarded to, they get the whole email, 422 00:25:56,490 --> 00:26:00,165 but then they also get those links and that builds a curiosity, which I love. 423 00:26:00,785 --> 00:26:04,245 The other thing you mentioned as well was these free community. 424 00:26:05,424 --> 00:26:08,705 Are they workshops? Are they classes? Tell us more about that one. Yeah. 425 00:26:09,025 --> 00:26:12,240 They're classes. Every this was born out of 426 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:16,320 originally, this was born out of my I wanted 427 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,940 something that was in between email and working together. 428 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:25,065 There's a lot of bad actors in the online space, 429 00:26:25,125 --> 00:26:28,885 and a lot of people have gotten burned. And a lot of these master classes 430 00:26:28,885 --> 00:26:32,404 that are, like, 75%, let me tell you about my story, and 431 00:26:32,404 --> 00:26:36,245 then 25% sales pitch. And you're like, well, I came to get a thing, and 432 00:26:36,245 --> 00:26:40,030 I didn't get the thing. And so, I wanted a way 433 00:26:40,030 --> 00:26:43,390 to meet people. I wanted you know, I was told someone someone said do a 434 00:26:43,390 --> 00:26:46,110 round table. I'm like, I don't I don't really know what that means, but, like, 435 00:26:46,110 --> 00:26:49,790 I could teach a class. And so this was almost like the extension of my 436 00:26:49,790 --> 00:26:53,575 newsletter. It's like, okay. I'm gonna develop some content, but I'm also gonna develop 437 00:26:53,575 --> 00:26:56,875 an entire training, teaching. And 438 00:26:57,335 --> 00:26:59,975 business wisdom would say charge for that and make it part of your funnel. I'm 439 00:26:59,975 --> 00:27:02,615 like, well, I want as many people to come to those as possible, and I 440 00:27:02,615 --> 00:27:06,320 want them to bring their friends. And so I'm gonna, 1, not gatekeep 441 00:27:06,620 --> 00:27:09,659 the information because that's really important to my values, but 2, I'm gonna teach it 442 00:27:09,659 --> 00:27:12,539 and give it away for free. And so I do that once a month. And 443 00:27:12,539 --> 00:27:16,220 those are actually, a lot of people subscribe to newsletters because 444 00:27:16,220 --> 00:27:19,740 someone said, hey. She's doing this free thing. It's actually really valuable and not 445 00:27:19,740 --> 00:27:23,205 salesy at all. You should come to this. And, 446 00:27:23,445 --> 00:27:27,205 it's been a great asset again. I developed a teaching for it, 447 00:27:27,205 --> 00:27:30,965 which means I have to think deeply about it. And almost 448 00:27:30,965 --> 00:27:34,085 everyone that has joined one of my group programs, like 50% of them have come 449 00:27:34,085 --> 00:27:37,730 to one of those classes before. Ah, beautiful. I 450 00:27:37,730 --> 00:27:41,490 love it. One of the, I 451 00:27:41,490 --> 00:27:45,170 think, beautiful things about the online marketing space right now 452 00:27:45,170 --> 00:27:47,590 is there is more curiosity 453 00:27:48,755 --> 00:27:52,275 around these deeper relationships and there's less of a 454 00:27:52,275 --> 00:27:55,715 desire for someone to be, you know, sold 455 00:27:55,715 --> 00:27:58,775 to. I distinctly remember, 456 00:27:59,795 --> 00:28:03,255 early in my business going to a webinar that I thought was live 457 00:28:03,550 --> 00:28:07,230 and it had, like, the comments and everything. And then I joined 458 00:28:07,230 --> 00:28:11,070 that program because of that webinar. And the first thing they teach is 459 00:28:11,070 --> 00:28:14,770 these fake webinars. And I was like, oh, this feels awful. 460 00:28:14,990 --> 00:28:18,815 I am never doing this in my business. Right? And so 461 00:28:18,815 --> 00:28:22,275 I love that you have this resource 462 00:28:22,335 --> 00:28:26,115 for people to get a better sense of you, get a better understanding 463 00:28:26,255 --> 00:28:30,095 of you and your offer. And I think it's a great reflection of just your 464 00:28:30,095 --> 00:28:33,929 value system and it makes it easier for someone to say yes to your offer 465 00:28:33,929 --> 00:28:37,710 because they get to experience it, which is so beautiful. 466 00:28:38,650 --> 00:28:42,250 I also don't market them on social media because I'm really bad at 467 00:28:42,650 --> 00:28:46,090 like, I should put them on LinkedIn more and I don't. And they're 468 00:28:47,085 --> 00:28:50,445 people just people bring people, and, you know, 469 00:28:50,445 --> 00:28:54,205 it's, people sign up for the newsletter. Again, like, I I should 470 00:28:54,205 --> 00:28:57,965 do more and on like, to really expose awareness of the 471 00:28:58,125 --> 00:29:01,840 of this. And yet, I still I think, 472 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,560 like, earlier this year, I had 60 people sign up for the re free one. 473 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,680 That's about it was one of the marketing and sales systems, pieces that I talked 474 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,440 about, and it was wonderful. And, you know, I think it's, like, 475 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,295 it's snowballing on its own. And, 476 00:29:15,635 --> 00:29:18,435 I tried to market the thing on social media. I talk I talk about it 477 00:29:18,435 --> 00:29:22,035 sometimes, but I just, those I have found the 478 00:29:22,115 --> 00:29:24,835 for for me, like, the reach is so poor on LinkedIn when you put things 479 00:29:24,835 --> 00:29:28,350 that like that up that I just I just don't. 480 00:29:28,350 --> 00:29:32,030 And they most of the enrollments are from my newsletter, and it's 481 00:29:32,030 --> 00:29:35,870 great. Yeah. And I will gently, with love, 482 00:29:35,870 --> 00:29:39,550 correct you on the should comment because you don't have to put it on 483 00:29:39,550 --> 00:29:43,394 LinkedIn. You could. You could. Absolutely. But you're the 484 00:29:43,394 --> 00:29:47,154 way that you've shown up for yourself is working, and so just keep doing that. 485 00:29:47,154 --> 00:29:50,375 I love it. It's beautiful to see. I'm curious though, 486 00:29:51,075 --> 00:29:54,855 have you have you ran into any challenges with this model 487 00:29:54,995 --> 00:29:58,720 of, marketing, like this marketing system that you've built for yourself? 488 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,620 It would not work if I was trying to sell a low ticket. The the 489 00:30:01,679 --> 00:30:04,179 speed, like, I filmed a whole 490 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,200 YouTube video on this if anyone wants to, hear about the real transparency about 491 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:10,260 my business numbers. 492 00:30:13,655 --> 00:30:17,495 I built my business on high higher end consulting for 493 00:30:17,495 --> 00:30:20,934 companies starting out. I've now switched to I I no longer do that, 494 00:30:20,934 --> 00:30:24,375 but I have a couple of of clients I work with 5 to 10 hours 495 00:30:24,375 --> 00:30:28,169 a week building through high end, not high ticket 496 00:30:28,169 --> 00:30:31,770 as a, you know, that calm concept, but, like, truly, like, a high level of 497 00:30:31,770 --> 00:30:35,450 support in their business. And so I have, a fractional 498 00:30:35,450 --> 00:30:39,210 COO client. I have a number of 1 on 1 advisory clients. And 499 00:30:39,210 --> 00:30:42,935 so I don't need a ton of traffic and volume to 500 00:30:42,935 --> 00:30:46,775 make my business model work. I don't if I were launching 501 00:30:47,015 --> 00:30:50,395 if I had a cohort based program as my 502 00:30:51,175 --> 00:30:54,855 signature core offer, I needed to enroll 20 people every 503 00:30:54,855 --> 00:30:58,470 quarter in a thing to make it work, My model wouldn't work for that. I'm 504 00:30:58,470 --> 00:31:02,230 growing too slim, growing visibility too slowly for that. Like, I think my conversion 505 00:31:02,230 --> 00:31:05,850 numbers are amazing and they're just not large enough. I don't have enough, 506 00:31:06,150 --> 00:31:09,770 you know, I grew my list, I think, from 2.80 507 00:31:09,910 --> 00:31:13,695 last spring, we're at a1000 now, which is pretty good. And 508 00:31:13,914 --> 00:31:17,755 the conversion rate is amazing on the people that are 509 00:31:17,755 --> 00:31:21,515 in my world because I deepen that relationship. But if I had a a model 510 00:31:21,515 --> 00:31:25,195 that was more short term, if I had a model that required more people opting 511 00:31:25,195 --> 00:31:28,920 in for, you know, like a David Perrell, I don't know if this is 512 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,760 relevant for your audience and you, but David Perrell, ran rite of 513 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,640 passage. It was a cohort based course, and it was, like, super high end, and 514 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,920 it was, you know, 6 week program, and then that was it. That was the 515 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,685 only but he shut that down because it's really hard to run. You have 516 00:31:42,685 --> 00:31:46,065 to still get lots of followers and lots of new new eyeballs 517 00:31:46,525 --> 00:31:49,805 if you're running kind of what I call a high volume model, and I don't 518 00:31:49,805 --> 00:31:53,565 have one. So it works for me because I built my business and 519 00:31:53,565 --> 00:31:57,165 designed it for longevity and long term, and that 520 00:31:57,165 --> 00:32:00,890 allows my audience growth to match the style 521 00:32:00,890 --> 00:32:04,570 in which I work with my clients. Yes. Oh, gosh. I wanna emphasize 522 00:32:04,570 --> 00:32:08,330 this so much for everyone listening. I love that you called it 523 00:32:08,330 --> 00:32:11,310 a high volume model as well because 524 00:32:12,775 --> 00:32:16,535 the level of marketing that's required for some 525 00:32:16,535 --> 00:32:20,235 business models, doesn't fit with personalities 526 00:32:20,775 --> 00:32:24,475 of the business owner. And I think this is also where there's dissonance 527 00:32:24,535 --> 00:32:28,340 when someone tries to deploy marketing strategies and they're like, I don't like 528 00:32:28,340 --> 00:32:31,880 this. For instance, one of my 529 00:32:32,100 --> 00:32:35,620 marketing, coaching clients is like, I wanna be on TikTok, but, 530 00:32:35,860 --> 00:32:38,580 the more we get into it, the more I realize she doesn't wanna be on 531 00:32:38,580 --> 00:32:42,285 TikTok. It's just how she has been sold the bill of 532 00:32:42,285 --> 00:32:46,065 goods of, like, show up on video 3 to 5 times a day, 533 00:32:46,525 --> 00:32:49,725 create all of these assets. And she's like, I'm trying to do all of this 534 00:32:49,725 --> 00:32:53,340 stuff and it just drains me, depletes me. And it doesn't 535 00:32:53,340 --> 00:32:57,020 work for her and it actually just links back to her business model. 536 00:32:57,020 --> 00:33:00,380 And so I do think there's a really important lesson here 537 00:33:00,380 --> 00:33:04,140 in matching your business model to how you wanna 538 00:33:04,140 --> 00:33:07,865 work and then also matching your marketing to that business model 539 00:33:07,865 --> 00:33:11,705 as well, which you've done so beautifully. Talk 540 00:33:11,705 --> 00:33:15,465 to me about some of these results. You mentioned that you're launching as we record 541 00:33:15,465 --> 00:33:19,305 this. What are your goals for a launch, and then how do you 542 00:33:19,305 --> 00:33:23,120 adjust your marketing for your newsletter throughout the 543 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,880 launch period? Yeah. So I my goal for my launch 544 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,640 is 15 people, which is not super large, but that's, again, how I 545 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,735 roll. I'm, like, I want infinite deep relationships, deeply 546 00:33:34,274 --> 00:33:38,115 supportive. My newsletter for the maybe 547 00:33:38,115 --> 00:33:41,955 month before the launch started, was 548 00:33:41,955 --> 00:33:45,715 very prelaunch heavy content talking about some philosophies and some beliefs 549 00:33:45,715 --> 00:33:48,909 and trying to cross the bridge on some of the what would you need to 550 00:33:48,909 --> 00:33:52,289 believe for this to be true type of content, not explicitly 551 00:33:52,429 --> 00:33:56,269 marketing the program, but priming the pump as it were. And then I keep 552 00:33:56,269 --> 00:34:00,095 my newsletter going every week. I actually don't send launch 553 00:34:00,095 --> 00:34:03,695 emails to people who have not made it through my welcome sequence yet 554 00:34:03,695 --> 00:34:07,535 because, if they want to buy from the website, they can. I'm 555 00:34:07,535 --> 00:34:10,675 doing a podcast ad with Amelia's 556 00:34:11,455 --> 00:34:15,070 Kirby's off the grid podcast, which people 557 00:34:15,070 --> 00:34:18,449 might join this cohort. They might join the next cohort, but it's really, 558 00:34:19,550 --> 00:34:22,909 and then my launch emails are more just like programs 559 00:34:22,909 --> 00:34:26,109 open. I I had, like, a couple emails go out to the wait list. I 560 00:34:26,109 --> 00:34:29,489 sent personal emails to everyone on my wait list, 561 00:34:29,844 --> 00:34:33,285 including if we had a conversation before, if they were in a community that I'm 562 00:34:33,285 --> 00:34:36,105 a part of, if I know them, if they came to a deeper business dialogue, 563 00:34:36,485 --> 00:34:40,245 like, I know them because it's small. And so I'm like, how's this 564 00:34:40,245 --> 00:34:43,925 thing going? How has it been since last time we talked? Like, these are not 565 00:34:43,925 --> 00:34:47,339 canned emails. These are personal emails. Thank you for coming to this round 566 00:34:47,339 --> 00:34:50,619 table. Oh, we haven't had a chance to meet yet. I'd love to learn more 567 00:34:50,619 --> 00:34:53,420 about you. So I sent personal emails to everyone on the wait list. I think 568 00:34:53,420 --> 00:34:56,940 I had, like, 40 people on the wait list. And then I sent an extra 569 00:34:56,940 --> 00:35:00,505 email once a week. That's less again, my 570 00:35:00,505 --> 00:35:03,865 emails are not meant to they're not really talking about the program as much as 571 00:35:03,865 --> 00:35:07,705 my philosophies around, if it's the right fit for you or when you should 572 00:35:07,705 --> 00:35:11,385 be thinking about this. That's kinda and and I very much like if 573 00:35:11,385 --> 00:35:14,185 people are like, I can't afford it or, you know, I'm like, alright. Let's figure 574 00:35:14,185 --> 00:35:16,960 it out. And if they're like, I'm not ready for this, I'm like, great. It's 575 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,720 gonna be here in in in March. And so it's very it's 576 00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:22,960 a very, like, if this is supportive for you, I want you to be here. 577 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,240 If it's not supportive for you, guess what? You're gonna get my newsletter every single 578 00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:29,875 week, and, I'm gonna keep showing up in your inbox 579 00:35:29,875 --> 00:35:33,555 until and it may never be the right time for us to work together. 580 00:35:33,555 --> 00:35:37,335 You you may never need to work with me, 581 00:35:37,954 --> 00:35:41,714 yet you're still gonna probably read my email and 582 00:35:41,714 --> 00:35:45,560 tell a friend. Yes. Yes. That's beautiful. And 583 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,840 I love the the way that you think about all of this as well. It 584 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,520 is very refreshing. I've been reading a lot, 585 00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,840 about, like, cozy marketing and cozy business strategies, and 586 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,665 this this aligns with that. It's it doesn't feel like so much 587 00:36:00,665 --> 00:36:04,345 like push as more yeah. It just I'm 588 00:36:04,345 --> 00:36:08,105 struggling to put it in words because I'm still, like, wrapping my brain around 589 00:36:08,105 --> 00:36:11,829 this idea. But I get the vibe from you that it's not about, like, good. 590 00:36:11,829 --> 00:36:15,190 Go, go, go. Push, push, push. Buy now. Here's a flash sale. You 591 00:36:15,190 --> 00:36:18,950 know? It's more like, hey, if you're ready, I'm here. And if you're not, I'll 592 00:36:18,950 --> 00:36:22,790 still be here. You know? And there's something comforting about that. My 593 00:36:22,790 --> 00:36:26,170 very last question for you is about balance and burnout. 594 00:36:26,555 --> 00:36:30,075 And I think that this is a big question because you have committed to this 595 00:36:30,075 --> 00:36:33,915 weekly newsletter. What do you do when you don't feel 596 00:36:33,915 --> 00:36:37,435 like writing it or, you know, you're balancing all as other 597 00:36:37,435 --> 00:36:41,050 aspects of life and business? Well, part of not 598 00:36:41,050 --> 00:36:44,650 being present on social media is because this is my number one thing. I want 599 00:36:44,650 --> 00:36:48,410 the newsletter to go out every single week. And so 600 00:36:48,410 --> 00:36:52,010 I I actually found that I was having a harder time writing the 601 00:36:52,010 --> 00:36:55,565 newsletter when I was having to also give some of those 602 00:36:55,565 --> 00:36:59,085 concepts to social media. And so for me, it was like I 603 00:36:59,085 --> 00:37:02,924 couldn't think of 5 interesting Instagram posts and a weekly 604 00:37:02,924 --> 00:37:06,605 newsletter. So I just kept thinking about my 605 00:37:06,605 --> 00:37:09,905 instant my weekly newsletter and then snippets make it onto LinkedIn, 606 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:14,119 or sometimes threads, but mostly LinkedIn. And so for 607 00:37:14,119 --> 00:37:17,900 me, that actually helped with the burnout because I was having a hard time 608 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,880 coming up with that many interesting takes for social, and I'm 609 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,525 like, I'm gonna not do that. I'm gonna focus on one take and just 610 00:37:25,525 --> 00:37:28,585 like flush it out on my my newsletter. 611 00:37:30,165 --> 00:37:33,525 I and because I'm only doing 1 a week, this sounds crazy. I'm only doing 612 00:37:33,525 --> 00:37:36,165 1 a week, but because I'm not doing anything on social, I am also doing 613 00:37:36,165 --> 00:37:39,599 a YouTube channel for discovery. That is a asset I am building 614 00:37:39,599 --> 00:37:43,440 for I have, like, 230 subscribers. We are we are on a long 615 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:47,119 journey for for YouTube. Those are all 616 00:37:47,119 --> 00:37:50,420 usually from a newsletter. They're, like, refined concepts. 617 00:37:51,119 --> 00:37:54,654 But because I'm always thinking about, like, 4 or 5 things, I wanna say I'm 618 00:37:54,654 --> 00:37:58,335 always, like, got things I'm I'm never writing from a blank page. I'm 619 00:37:58,335 --> 00:38:01,714 always peppering ideas in when I have them, 620 00:38:01,775 --> 00:38:05,295 and I can I do repurpose some 621 00:38:05,295 --> 00:38:08,654 newsletters? I have to reshape them and rewrite them a little bit, but, I'm going 622 00:38:08,654 --> 00:38:12,170 on vacation, and so I I'm gonna have one that's kind of like 623 00:38:12,550 --> 00:38:15,910 a rehash or something I wrote last year, because I've been 624 00:38:15,910 --> 00:38:18,630 referencing, and I'm like, oh, I didn't put I never put it on my blog. 625 00:38:18,630 --> 00:38:20,870 So I'm gonna put it on my newsletter and then I'm gonna send it out. 626 00:38:20,870 --> 00:38:24,055 But that's how I think about burnout is, like, my temperament 627 00:38:24,435 --> 00:38:28,275 is consistency and always 628 00:38:28,275 --> 00:38:31,395 thinking about 3 to 4 things at a time and always wrestling with ideas in 629 00:38:31,395 --> 00:38:34,935 my head. And so I couldn't I wasn't built 630 00:38:35,155 --> 00:38:38,500 to be on social media because it was it's not built for how I like 631 00:38:38,500 --> 00:38:42,099 to think. So I just I just didn't, which means that I'm actually don't burn 632 00:38:42,099 --> 00:38:45,480 out on my newsletter. Now sometimes I have to, like, do it on Fridays 633 00:38:45,540 --> 00:38:48,900 or I had to schedule I was out of town with my family and the 634 00:38:48,900 --> 00:38:51,805 hotel didn't have Wi Fi, and I'm like, I have to schedule this newsletter, so 635 00:38:51,805 --> 00:38:55,085 I went to I went to a bar and, like, used our Wi Fi to 636 00:38:55,085 --> 00:38:58,845 schedule the thing. I love that. So sometimes I have to, like, manage a 637 00:38:58,845 --> 00:39:02,125 schedule, but that's how I I stay consistent is because I I pick the one 638 00:39:02,125 --> 00:39:04,410 activity that I knew I would love to do. 639 00:39:05,770 --> 00:39:09,450 Yeah. I love this so much. Everything you're 640 00:39:09,450 --> 00:39:12,970 saying, I'm over here like, yes. Yes. Yes. And I think our listeners will love 641 00:39:12,970 --> 00:39:16,490 it as well. So for those people who are listening and they're like, I need 642 00:39:16,490 --> 00:39:19,710 more Jessica in my world, in my life, I know you have this 643 00:39:20,035 --> 00:39:23,635 free, radical, and rooted business life cycle assessment. Can you tell 644 00:39:23,635 --> 00:39:27,235 us all about it? Yeah. It's a quiz that helps you, 645 00:39:27,635 --> 00:39:30,835 understand where you are in the life cycle of business, all the way from a 646 00:39:30,835 --> 00:39:34,610 seed, to a sprout, to a strength in sapling to 647 00:39:34,610 --> 00:39:38,370 a fully mature, business and, like, kinda what to focus on 648 00:39:38,370 --> 00:39:42,050 from the perspective of a sustainable business, usually a service 649 00:39:42,050 --> 00:39:45,890 provider. And if you sign up for the assessment, you also get the 650 00:39:45,890 --> 00:39:49,555 newsletter. Yes. Definitely. I'll go check this out. I'm gonna put it in the 651 00:39:49,555 --> 00:39:51,255 show notes, online dreya.com/326. 652 00:39:53,555 --> 00:39:56,375 Jessica, thank you so much for being on the show today. 653 00:39:57,634 --> 00:40:01,410 Coming up next, inside the Savvy Social School, we have our brand new 654 00:40:01,410 --> 00:40:05,030 session, the Content Collab. If you want to 655 00:40:05,570 --> 00:40:09,410 brainstorm with me, co work with our fellow members, come on in and join 656 00:40:09,410 --> 00:40:13,145 us. We're doing this creative session together so we can 657 00:40:13,145 --> 00:40:16,905 come up with more ideas, flesh out our ideas, bounce our 658 00:40:16,905 --> 00:40:20,685 ideas off of each other, and just play and have fun with our marketing together. 659 00:40:20,745 --> 00:40:24,425 So join us in the Savvy Social School for that. And then coming up 660 00:40:24,425 --> 00:40:27,910 next week, I have Chloe coming up a podcast to talk to us about 661 00:40:27,910 --> 00:40:31,510 branding and also marketing to people without 662 00:40:31,510 --> 00:40:35,270 saying marginalized communities because not everyone's marginalized, but there 663 00:40:35,270 --> 00:40:38,950 is also diversity. So we're gonna get into that hot topic 664 00:40:38,950 --> 00:40:42,565 next week, so stay tuned for that. That's all for this episode. I'll see you 665 00:40:42,565 --> 00:40:44,105 next time. Bye for now.