SEO is great, but SEO plus our handy little
friend AI, artificial intelligence, is even better. And
today's guest, we're gonna dive all into that conversation and more. This
is episode number 341 of the Mindful Marketing podcast where we're all about helping you
connect more, scroll less, podcast where we're all about helping you connect
more, scroll less, and grow together. But first, a word
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Riverside. Alright. Let's dive into the episode.
Akilah, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. I'm
super excited to talk again because you're just on my show. So I'm excited to
keep these conversations going. I know. I think it's so this is one
of those situations, y'all, those of you listening, where we've been connected online
for, I don't know, forever. So but we
met in person. We were just talking about this. We met in person,
at DC Podfest pre pandemic, like, right before the pandemic.
And look at us now. Yes.
So for the people for the people listening, can you give us a little bit
of background? What has your journey been into SEO and
specifically using artificial intelligence as well? So
my my journey overall has been, like, 2 two paths coming
together. Right? So professionally, I've been in tech since
since college, a little bit over 20 years, started
working, started as an intern actually and just took my whole way up
a lot of, you know, big major companies and stuff like that. And that's actually
where I was introduced to AI. I was working on an AI project
back in 2016 for a major bank that
we all know. Right? So that's when I first like but I and at that
time, that project was kind of a chatbot, which is funny because now everybody's doing
them. But we were, like, building the first kind of chatbot that was gonna be
used for that particular company. And then at the
same time, on the other side of my path, I had already been working
on SEO. I wrote a book on SEO. I've always been doing like
web design and just helping people get found and search and all of
that work, blogging, all those things. And so,
eventually, a couple of years ago, the past finally
came together where I was taking a lot of my technology, which I
always infused in everything I do anyway because I'm a tech girl. Right?
And, now that I'm starting to build out and bring in
other people, like, that's my goal to get more business owners, especially more
women, especially more women of color to, like, be embracing these
tools, these strategies that we know I know big companies are
using and we aren't. So that's always been the mission of my
brand. And so that evolved from just doing it for people. Well, first
doing it for myself, then doing it for people, then writing the book, then having
a membership, and then eventually the software, which I like I said, is where the
2 kinda came together where it's like, I've got the tech skill and knowledge to
build. I've got the SEO knowledge to the content and put it
together, we got SEO Assist. Yeah. And what year did you launch the
the tool? So log this tool officially first launched in its
1st iteration in 2020. So this is, again, before AI. It
actually originally was not an AI tool. It was really
just a tool to help with content creation, taking a lot of my templates and
putting algorithm and creating content that way. Little crude. I know.
But, once AI initially, I was like, I'm not gonna put
AI in it. I actually was a little bit resistant. I was like, okay. You
know, I wanted to still be authentic and using people's voice and stuff like
that. And so it wasn't until I got better at that part of
AI of making it sound like the voice of the person who was answering the
questions because that's how the tool works. I'm like, like a chat GPT. There's no
prompts or anything like that. We literally give you the questions because we know what
you should be saying. Right? And then you answer those questions. And
then based on whatever what we call them content flows, content flow you've chosen,
that's the content you get. So it wasn't until I could really get that authentic
voice that I put that AI in. And then we went used to be called
my SEO writer. And so then it went from that to SEO assist and
just for the audience, it might do one more name change.
Okay. But, you know, so starting from 2020 and then just
kind of rolling out different iterations. And so, you know, like I said, here we
are now in, what we got. Yeah. Okay. I have a bunch of
follow-up questions, but I think my first one is gonna be around this this
concept of AI because it seems like people fall into 2
camps. They either love it or they hate it. Right? And I I feel like
I'm kind of in the middle. I'm like, well, some things are are terrible, but
it's actually very helpful. How do you kind of educate
people on the benefits of AI, especially those people
who are, like, never in a 1000000 years, it's, you know, it's, you know,
cheating or whatever. How how do you speak to that group of people?
Well, first, I would never say it's cheating because it's still using your ideas and,
you know, what you're what you're putting out there. And I say I did that
all the time even to people, like, even in my book, which was in 2019.
So again, way before AI, I said in my book, you know, you don't
unless you're a writer, unless you're someone who's selling copywriting. Right? And
selling, really writing copy and writing for other people.
We're all I just giving ideas. Right? We're all giving out our our
own knowledge. And so even if you use something like an AI or a
template or even somebody like a virtual assistant to get it started, it's
still infusing your knowledge. I never want anyone to feel like
they're cheating or doing something wrong, regardless of what the
Internet streets say. What's important is the content of the people and the
search engines in this case. Right? They're not saying it, so you shouldn't worry about
it if your actual customers aren't. So that's the first thing I say
is that absolutely not cheating. The other thing I say is that
especially depending on what you're gonna use. Like, I know a lot of people default
to ChatGPT. I even talk about ChatGPT a lot. But when
you're using more specialized products, right, not even just mine, but you have
more specialized products, they're written with what your
end result needs to be. And I think that's where people miss out on using
AI is that if you're not familiar with what the end result should
be, like, what does good look like, then you're gonna get
potentially not good and sometimes crap out of AI. So you can't just take
it for a grain of salt, which is why I like more specialized products
because they're written with what's good in mind. Like, I use another
tool called Opus Clips for video clips for the podcast. One of the
things I love about it is it's not just going and saying, you know, minute
1 to minute 1:30. Right? It is actually going in and saying, this
sounds good. Let's put this with another piece of this. And it is actually doing
some work to make sure you get to what good looks like. And that's because
the OpusClip folks know what good short short form
clips look like and know what good videos are. Like, it even tells you, like,
this is a good hook. This is a good statement. Like, it even gives you
a little grading score. So you want tools that help
you get to that end result. That is what good looks like and written by
the people who know what good looks like. And so I think if you start
combining that, it gets a lot easier and a lot more effective using AI
tools. A 100%. This kinda reminds me of,
gingerbread houses. I maybe I'm still in, like, Christmas mood,
but, I'm the kind of person who, like, give me the kit. Like, I
need the bread already baked. I need the icing. Because if you
gave me the ingredients just raw, I would be like, I don't even know where
to start. And I feel like that's AI tools like this
in a sense where it's like, sure, if you make them all the time
or if you know what the end product should look like, you can just have,
like, flour and sugar and whatever else goes into gingerbread and just make it. Right?
But the rest of us, most of us need we need to see
the box to see the what the puzzle's supposed to look like at the end.
And I like that that's kind of what you're doing with with the, SEO assist
tool. Exactly. And I love you said the gingerbread, which we have still
not done our gingerbread house. I just need to admit it to everybody.
January, no gingerbread house is done. But and when I do
my webinars, it's funny. One of the last slides I put is a, a
slide with a different case. And I use the analogy of this being
like cake mix. Like, you can start with a yellow cake mix. And from
that, you can make a red velvet cake. You can make a pineapple upside down
cake. You can make an eggnog cake, which is what we made this Christmas. Right?
You can make lots of different things, and that's what these tools really are. They're
that basic mix that we know how to get you a good cake.
You can add in your own flavor and add in your own extras, but at
least it won't be dry. At least it won't be runny. At least it won't
be all the ways you could mess up a cake that most of us just
wouldn't know until we messed it up a a bunch of times. And in business,
you don't really wanna do that. Yeah. The cake
analogy is perfect because it it leads to my next question. So going
with the cake analogy, if you are a baker, right, you don't really buy
the box cake, you make it from scratch. So I heard you say earlier, you
know, if writing copy is your job, then, you
know, it's a different, expectation than the
rest of us. So what do you think about people who straddle that
line? I'm talking content creators, small business owners. Like, we
write a lot of copy in our day to day work. We we publish blog
posts on our websites. And even now, you know, Google and
other search engines are saying they're gonna penalize content that's
created by AI. What are your thoughts on
that drama? So for the drama, I will say Google's
also said that they can't tell what's AI and what's not.
And very often, you know, just kind of a smaller version of that. Like, we'll
see people say, if you use words like, like, Dell
Yeah. Somebody told me game changer the other day, and I was like, don't you
take that away from me. And that's how I feel. Because I'm like, I talk
that way all the time. That's how or or emojis. I am an emoji
person. I like to shine a social personality in
everything that I'm sending and writing. And so for me, I was always using
emojis. Just because AI does it, doesn't mean it isn't real. And, technically, like I
said, Google can't really tell the difference. It has some
idea of maybe, but good writing is what AI and
search in what AI search engines and all that stuff are based on. And so
when they start bringing in that information, if you're doing good writing, it's gonna
look like AI. So that's the first thing I'll say is don't be afraid to
somebody saying you look like AI. The other part is straddling offense.
So I very specifically, I say copywriters only because they're like
copywriters. I would say journalists.
That's probably it. Like, it's a very small margin of people who get
paid for their actual writing. Different than getting
paid for the service that has written material. So like my team, we do content
creation. We're getting paid for you to get found in search. We're getting
paid for you to come up for certain different topics. You're we're getting paid to
put stuff out there for you. We're not getting paid for the
period at the end of the sentence and the correct, APA
citations. Right? We're not that's not us. So
if our content meets what you need, that's all you
need, all you want at the end. And so for those people who are like
a content creator or, even social media manage, like, stuff like
that, I think you can use AI. You're always gonna review it. You're always gonna
put your human touch on it. You're never gonna just go from tool to person,
like, to your client, to even to your own platform. So I think you
can still use those AI tools and have absolutely
no problem. Like I said, unless you're one of those people who are just getting
exactly paid for the the periods and the expiration points and the things
like that. And even those different type of industries, you could still use it
for ID ideation. You could still use it for proofreading,
expand on this topic, analyze, compare to other
things. So there's still a lot of things that AI can help you with,
even outlines of stuff, even if it's not necessarily writing
everything word for word for word because it doesn't have to just write for
you. It could do a lot of planning and work for you too, which is,
like, I use I use Chat GPT, and a lot of that is what can
you help me work get through working wise? Not necessarily what can you do for
me writing wise. Yes. A 100%. This is where I feel like I'm
I'm in the middle with a lot of my thoughts on AI because I use
it very heavily throughout my day. But it is a lot of,
like, the analytical, the research, the ideating. And a lot of times, it
helps me just formulate an idea because I'm a talking kind of processor.
So for me to even get to the end point, a lot of times I
gotta talk through whatever is, like, going through my head, and I can use, you
know, artificial intelligence to help me do that. And that's kinda what
I like about SEO assist as well is that, we're not
starting from a blank screen. We're not we're not starting from
scratch. We we have the prompts to help us think through what
we want that end result to be, which I think is such a powerful
tool that we have on our plate. So when we think about this, it's
kind of like we're in the age of AI. How do we
balance AI produced work versus
other types of work? Like, what do you recommend to business owners?
I would say work is work. Right? So I wouldn't try to balance or I
wouldn't try to separate them. I would say, you know, what does my
process look like now? What do I want my process to look like?
Because some people, even without a tool at all, they know they're not where they
wanna be. Right? What do I want my process to look like? And then
start thinking about where can I put a tool in this? So going back to
like writing content, Right? I'm always gonna start with coming up with ideas.
I prefer, and I've learned this now, to ask questions. I'm a more
of a question generator. I'm a manifesting generator. I don't know if that, you know,
makes a big difference, but people have told me I respond and now I see
it more. Right? So for me, the first thing I'm doing in my process
is what questions are people asking? I'm starting with that. And then
I'm gonna take out those questions, like, take 1 or 2 of those questions. And
then I'm gonna say, okay, what kind of style of blog do we need for
this particular site? And then I'm gonna write the content from that, you know, from
that conversation and then make sure I got the right keywords in there, which I
usually already have, and then going on, you know, for the next thing. Repurposing.
I'd much rather have a tool repurposed than have to continue to rewrite the same
thing a couple of different times. So I have all these different steps without a
tool involved. Right? Now that I've got the steps and I've got kind of my
timeline of this is the things I need to do, I'm gonna go and say,
where can a tool help me with this? So I know that I got, you
know, a question interview flow, which can be used to get questions. Thanks.
I got that. I'm gonna be manually going through them, so I can't use a
tool for that or I don't use a tool for that. But then when I
get to the actual writing, I'm gonna probably, you know, choose my different
blog post type, and I'm going to maybe use a tool there.
Even if I write it myself, I'm going to now use the next step where
I'm repurposing there. So when you're thinking about where am I going to put in
the tool? 1st, look at your process and then start thinking where are the things
I can start replacing my part of the process with a
tool or even a person using the tool because you can also have your team
go out and do it, which I found a lot of value in that as
well. Like, for my podcast and for different things, all I gotta do is that
one big piece of content. They'll go out and now repurpose.
They'll go out and do show notes because they're allowed to do all these things
and things like tools just help them do it and help me with the confidence
that it's getting done correctly. It's getting done using my voice. So
everything sounds like me. Like, it's just getting done the right way because I know
what they're using to make it happen. Yeah. A 100%. I'm
I'm so for this flow. And I think a lot of times we
start backwards. We start with, like, oh, here's the tool. Now
how can I use it? But, what you're recommending and what I love about
this is it's like you gotta figure out what your process is first,
then find the tools that can help you. So with that in mind,
for those listeners who are maybe a little bit more advanced, what are some of
the ways that AI can help with content creation? I'm
thinking, maybe keyword research or
competitor. Like, how do we how do we use this powerful
tool to help us improve our work even more? So so
funny you said keyword research because that's the one thing that I don't really like
AI to generalize. One of the and one of the reasons why and then when
I say AI, I'm thinking, you know, straight AI. Again, if you've got a specialized
tool that has some other things, like, we also have an API with Semrush,
so we're bringing in other information. If you're just doing, like, GBT
clause, nothing like that, I would not recommend a for keyword research.
One of the reasons why is because it can't it still can't see
what the actual numbers are behind it. So the volume, the,
the what we call the keyword difficulty. So how well it'll rank among
others, how populous that particular keyword is. So those are
important numbers that we do when we do keyword research
that I would not use a tool I would not use an AI tool for
that. I would go to an actual SEO tool that specifically
brings in that kind of data and then incorporates it, which is
nice, but I would not use it for that. But for other things, like ideation
is always one. Right? If I'm gonna come up with those topics, I'm gonna come
up with those questions. Keywords and topics aren't necessarily always the
same. They're not one for 1. So you can have good topics that you know
people are asking these questions and answering them, which you should.
And only maybe 1 or 2 keywords involved there, but you're still gonna come up
for that topic, if that makes sense. So I wouldn't do the keyword research, but
I would help it with the ideation. Definitely like proofreading things like that. I need
a proofreader life regularly.
Then, other things like the repurposing for me, like, that's really,
really big. So whether it's either a video tool or a written
tool or whatever the tool is, being able to break it up into little
chunks. This this day and age, we need to not say we
need to be everywhere, but we need to have an appearance in most
places. Right? And so what that means and why don't
say I don't like term be everywhere because I think it makes people feel like
they need to sit on some computer and be literally on that
platform every single day. And that's just not true. What you can do
is schedule. Right? You can batch and schedule. I usually
try to schedule out at least 20 per week. And if I do
that, and that's with my groups and pages and everything. So at least
20 different posts going somewhere. Right? If I do that,
then I can at least interject my little things and not feel like I'm
overwhelmed. That all can be helped by AI. Right? AI can
tell you when to post it, where to post it, what to post
it. And then the better part of it at all is that now you've got
that consistent voice because, like, if you start with, like, I generally start
with the blog post. One big blog post. Break this up into a
bunch of different little posts for me. Where should I be putting these? When should
I be putting these? Now it's doing all that work to help me figure out
and get kind of through that pit of the overwhelm that sometimes comes up on
that, like when when and where kind of stuff. And then now you can move
forward to the next thing you have to do in your business or your day
or the next week when you do it all over again. Right? But you don't
have to spend as much time. So I think those are some of the places
where AI is helping out tremendously in in not just my
business, but a lot of businesses. Yeah. A 100%. Like, when I
people say this to me all the time. They're like, Andrea, you're everywhere. I'm like,
well, it may look that way, but I
have people and tools behind the scenes Yeah. Like, I really like
everything you said. Right? Right. I'm not always
camera ready, so we we just, you know, we go with the flow.
So I'm curious about what you think about the future of
AI because it feels like, to me, it's
going to be like the iPhone. When the iPhone first came out,
it was like, oh, big deal, or, you know, oh, you're fancy if you
have an iPhone. Now it's like all phones look the same. And I I
kinda feel that's where AI is headed, where it's like it's a big deal now,
but, you know, 5, 10 years from now, it's gonna be so integrated in what
we do, we won't even think about it anymore. But I'm curious, you
know, looking ahead 3 to 5 years from now, how do you
see AI changing specifically content and
SEO? Because I I don't know. I don't know what to think about
that. I'm sort of finished with the SEO piece.
A lot of search engines are now incorporating. So they've got, like, their own
SEO or search, you know, search AI, that kind of thing.
So that's that's one good thing and bad thing. I am one of those
people who's a little bit worried, which is one of the things that, from you,
or John Mueller from from Google said in the very beginning. Like, they don't
want the Internet to all look like the same thing. And so
that is one of the potential downfalls of everyone's using AI
and just kind of throwing it out there. Like people say, write me a blog
post about being on a podcast. Right? If I don't
give it anything more specific than that, it's going to probably sound
like a lot of the other blog posts that are out there because I didn't
give it anything specific. So I think, I think that's one of the downfalls. And
one of the things we have to look out for is not
sounding just like everyone else, being more specific, being more detailed,
which is where I think things are going to go. I think things are going
to get much more specific, much more niche AIs,
much more workflow based AIs. So it's not just
going to be I'll use Chatty, which is what I call Chatty. I use
Chatty for everything. It'll be, I need to do this specific
thing. Let me go to that tool that is specifically for
this because it has those different, you know, algorithms built in. It
has additional APIs that it's not just going. It's not just
to chat. It's going to a bunch of other things and then pulling that in
and bringing it to chat and bringing it back. I think that's gonna be a
lot more a lot more workflow based. So a lot more like instead of me
having to ask it 5 or 6 different things to do, I'll be able to
put in one thing and now it's going to go out and do
the whole workflow. It may ask me, do you know, I see this is in
your content. Do you want me to do this kind of thing? So a little
bit more of interactive, a little bit more intuitive. I also think more
voice based is going to be important because I think they've gotten,
they've gotten written down, of course. But I think now even
chat is already starting to do this and some other tools are working on this.
Being able to answer the questions or say whatever you want and then have it
processed from that as opposed to needing because even once you sit down to type
in whatever you're typing, we still try to make it sound more formal. Like, I
said, I'd have to catch myself and say, Kayla, you don't have to write this
email for you to write the email. Just tell her what you wanna say and
let it do the rest. Right? That's what you have it here for. I think
we're gonna move more into with VoiceBase, not worrying about that so
much. We will be able to say, write an email to, you know, send a
thank you for being on the show. Right? You know, write an email to do
this. And sometimes it might actually be able to start sending that email
or remind you, hey, you were on a show yesterday. Don't forget to send the
thank you. They've got, like, motion is 1. And I just
started with Sun Summer, it's called. But, somebody else on my
podcast recommended it. So I just started with it yesterday. But now those are
starting to look at your calendar and say, okay, here's what you have to
do. Here's what you have on your calendar. Here's when you can start doing that
work. It's going to now start doing some other things. Like one of those things
in your task is send an email. Let me do that for you. Right? You
know, one of the things in that thing is schedule your next interviews. Let me
do that for you. So I think it's going to move more into doing more
work for you to do a more of the whole workflow as opposed to 1
to 1. And to, like I said, that audio processing where you don't
even have to formalize your kind of thoughts as much as we
we tend to do. You'll just be able to say, hey. Do this really quick,
and it'll do it. Yeah. Oh, man. We're truly living in the future.
If it if it starts sending emails for me, I mean, come on.
Listen. What if it's in the morning like, I drop my son off from school
so we have a bit of a commute, like, 15 minutes. Imagine in the morning
on the way back, I just, like, send an email here, send an email there.
Are there any other emails I need to send today? And by the time I
get to my house, all I'm doing is proofing emails and getting them out. See,
I was telling someone this the other day because I was looking in my Gmail
for something, and I just didn't type the right word, and so I never found
this email. And I was like, I wish I could just describe it and it
could, like, take my description and then, like, be smart about it. You know what
I'm trying to say. Okay? I just can't think of the word that will get
me this exact email. And I feel like we're
so close to artificial intelligence truly being, like,
that helpful, especially with something like Gmail, which we all use. It's
like, how can we make this smarter if I could go, okay. Give me
3 emails that are on this topic, but not this or
that, whatever the case may be. Even if I don't use the right words, I
I hope that it becomes more integrated and it can help me out a little
bit better. Once you met someone so along long along the lines of that, and
let you know it's coming, I met someone last year, young lady. She has
she has a an AI tool, and it's specifically
for the production industry and, like, actors and
commercial work, stuff like that. They send out these sheets. I forgot if
that's what they're called. Call sheets. So they send out these sheets with information about
them. And then on the verse on the adverse, those who are looking are sending
out sheets based on what we need. This particular tool goes through your
emails, finds all of the different sheets, starts making a
database of all the different people who are available because they've sent you a
sheet. And then when you come in and say, I need this, instead of you
sending out a sheet, it's actually querying the database. That is
probably the best tool that I've seen so far. And this I'm sure
she's much further ahead because it's about a year and a half ago that I
met her, at a different conference. But that's that's the
that's where it's getting to, where it's I can actually read, start making sense of
categorizing, and then use it for something later on when you
actually need to execute some work. That's where I think we're going. Yeah.
That sounds amazing. So brilliant. I love it. Okay. So for
those people who are listening, who are like, I need the SEO assist in my
life. Tell us more about it and where we can find the live demo. So
SEO Assist, is atsiosis.com. You can have you can go to
a live demo, which is their interview flow. So basically, it's a bunch of different
flows. You come in and say, Lewis says, what do you wanna work on today?
Right? And you click what you wanna work on. And then from there, you can
choose, you know, what kind of blog post you wanna do, what kind of questions
you wanna generate, that kind of thing. And so we've made our interview
flow, which I've used a lot on my podcast. If you ever listen to my
show, I'm using those questions available for people to try. So if
you go to seosys.com slash live demo,
that'll take you there and you can answer about 4 questions. Who's
your audience? What's their goal? Who's the guest? And
and what kind of, interview? So it's whether or not it's a blog, podcast, or
YouTube interview. And it gives you 25 questions. And
the good thing about the questions is it's not just and this is where
knowing what good looks like comes in. Right? It's not just here of 25
questions. We actually break it down into kind of like your general questions
and then we give you 5 what we call the controversial questions because our show
should have 1. Right? And then we give you the basic questions, which are always
the ones that people forget because you're used to doing it. So you're not
thinking of, like, what I call the eggs, milk, and butter back to my cake
reference. I talk about cake a lot. Lot. Every cake, most
of them have egg, milk, and butter. Right? So that's the basics, and we always
forget those. And so it even has questions based on that. So you guys can
go and try that and play with it and get your questions. I use
it for interviewing people, and I use it for myself. Actually, I have a couple
of YouTube videos, which are super funny, where I'm actually I'm I'm doing it because
I'm demonstrating, but I'm actually interviewing myself. I have my glasses and it's like,
interview me? Not interview me. Interview
me. But you can use it even if you're not doing it that funny. But
you can use any of those questions can become your next blog post because those
are questions that people are asking out in search engines. Right? They're
asking the search engines about this particular thing. They're talking about these
particular controversial process that are happening. They're they they need
this information, and so it gives you, like I said, 25 questions you can use
to get that information. Yeah. Beautiful. I love it. And if y'all wanna try this
out, highly, highly recommend. I use it for my podcasts.
Getting those questions can really help save us so much time, so
much research time too. So you can check that out and all of the links
in the show notes, onlinedreya.com/341. Akhila, thank you
so much for being on the show. You're welcome. Thank you for having me. I
love these conversations, so thank you. Yeah. This was so fun. And thank you,
dear listener, for tuning in to another episode of the Mindful Marketing Podcast.
Coming up next week, we are kicking off our LinkedIn challenge inside of the
Mindful Marketing Lab, and this is our 7th year doing it.
If you are not in the lab, you can still get your free pass. Go
to onlinedrea.com/linkedin to join us for free
from January 27th through 31st. In the
meantime, I'll be back at you next Tuesday with another episode. That's all
for today. Bye for now.