1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,480 How do we market our business when the election is 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:07,919 happening? Because if you missed it, it's an election 3 00:00:07,919 --> 00:00:11,679 year and social media seems full with political chatter. And 4 00:00:11,679 --> 00:00:15,044 so today, I have a 2 special guests coming on the show so we can 5 00:00:15,044 --> 00:00:18,664 talk about how we're marketing our businesses during 6 00:00:18,724 --> 00:00:22,404 these times and how we can prepare ourselves for what's to 7 00:00:22,404 --> 00:00:26,244 come. Let's get into the show for those of you who are new. Hi. Hello. 8 00:00:26,244 --> 00:00:29,850 Welcome to the Mindful Marketing podcast. My name is Andrea Jones, and this is 9 00:00:29,850 --> 00:00:33,690 episode 325. I have 2 special guests today 10 00:00:33,690 --> 00:00:37,390 who I wanna introduce you to. First up, Megan Griffith. 11 00:00:37,530 --> 00:00:41,370 Megan, welcome to the show. Hello. Thank you for 12 00:00:41,370 --> 00:00:45,024 having me. Yes. Y'all have heard Megan here before. But if you could give 13 00:00:45,024 --> 00:00:48,464 us the 60-second version of who you are and what your business is, that would 14 00:00:48,464 --> 00:00:52,065 be great. Absolutely. Okay. I am a multi passionate business 15 00:00:52,065 --> 00:00:55,809 owner. I have, I think, 3 businesses right now. But 16 00:00:55,809 --> 00:00:59,329 my main, business is, being an 17 00:00:59,329 --> 00:01:03,089 auDHD life coach. So autistic ADHD life coach for people who 18 00:01:03,089 --> 00:01:06,930 are also autistic ADHD or both. And I'm also a 19 00:01:06,930 --> 00:01:10,695 business coach because I've been in business for about 4 years, and I've learned 20 00:01:10,695 --> 00:01:14,314 a lot. And being multi passionate, I have tried a lot of stuff, 21 00:01:14,454 --> 00:01:17,015 gotten really good at some of it, not so good at some of the other 22 00:01:17,015 --> 00:01:20,774 stuff. And, so now I I help people build their businesses as 23 00:01:20,774 --> 00:01:24,579 well. Yay. Thank you so much, Megan, for that introduction. And, 24 00:01:24,579 --> 00:01:27,720 Josephine, over to you. Tell us a little bit about yourself and your business. 25 00:01:28,579 --> 00:01:32,259 Hi. Thanks so much for having me on the podcast. I'm 26 00:01:32,259 --> 00:01:36,020 Josephine Agrawal. I own a social media agency called Pomona 27 00:01:36,020 --> 00:01:39,675 Creative. We work with companies who wanna build and grow social 28 00:01:39,675 --> 00:01:43,355 media communities that are easier to sell to. I've been in social for 29 00:01:43,355 --> 00:01:46,955 about 10 years, mostly on the in house brand 30 00:01:46,955 --> 00:01:50,640 side. And in 2020, I went out on my 31 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:54,159 own and started Pomona Creative. I have a business 32 00:01:54,159 --> 00:01:57,840 partner who lives in Maine, and, we work with all different 33 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,600 kinds of brands, b to b, b to c, small to 34 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:05,165 large across, across the gamut. And I did 35 00:02:05,165 --> 00:02:08,785 Andrea's, fun fact, mentorship program in 2020. 36 00:02:09,085 --> 00:02:12,445 So that's how we know each other, and it was it was awesome. Yay. Awesome. 37 00:02:12,445 --> 00:02:15,965 Yeah. I'm really excited to have this conversation with both of you because of your 38 00:02:15,965 --> 00:02:19,800 experience in business and in marketing and because 39 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,760 both of you are kind of like on the front lines and you see a 40 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,440 lot of what's happening on the Internet these days. So one of the questions is 41 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,200 actually, came from what I'm calling the mailbag. I feel like this is 42 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:32,760 the 2nd episode where I've done this where someone asked me a question. I was 43 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,495 like, oh, oh, turn it into a podcast episode. But 44 00:02:36,495 --> 00:02:40,275 the question is, how do I make sure my posts don't get lost 45 00:02:40,334 --> 00:02:44,174 in the sea of, like, election content? And 46 00:02:44,174 --> 00:02:47,180 as I was preparing for this podcast, I was oh, I have my thoughts, but 47 00:02:47,180 --> 00:02:50,800 I would love to have other people's thoughts because it is 48 00:02:50,940 --> 00:02:54,160 loud out here with all of the election stuff. And, 49 00:02:54,620 --> 00:02:58,459 I carefully curated my bubble online so that I 50 00:02:58,459 --> 00:03:02,215 don't see things that I generally don't see things that I don't want to. However, 51 00:03:02,215 --> 00:03:05,655 I know a lot of people don't. And then they're seeing everything. They're seeing the 52 00:03:05,655 --> 00:03:09,435 rage bait. They're seeing they're seeing the, like, political discourse. 53 00:03:09,495 --> 00:03:12,855 They're seeing things and they're looking at their business going. How do I fit in 54 00:03:12,855 --> 00:03:16,669 with all of that? So, Megan, I'll go over to you first. What do 55 00:03:16,669 --> 00:03:19,930 you think? How how do they stand out in the sea of election stuff? 56 00:03:20,549 --> 00:03:24,090 I think the key word here is, like, potency. 57 00:03:24,950 --> 00:03:28,409 You wanna make your content really concentrated. 58 00:03:28,875 --> 00:03:32,715 So like sometimes when I'm making a post, I'll be like, well, I'm gonna 59 00:03:32,715 --> 00:03:36,475 make like 3 posts out of this and I'll spread the idea out. 60 00:03:36,475 --> 00:03:39,935 And sometimes you just have to do that because a concept is complicated. 61 00:03:39,995 --> 00:03:43,835 But other times, especially during election stuff where 62 00:03:43,835 --> 00:03:47,460 there's just a sea of content, I think one of the 63 00:03:47,460 --> 00:03:51,060 best ways to stand out is to, like, make sure your your content really packs 64 00:03:51,060 --> 00:03:54,500 a punch. And I don't mean that in, like, being controversial for the sake of 65 00:03:54,500 --> 00:03:57,915 being controversial. I more mean it in the sense that, like, use 66 00:03:57,915 --> 00:04:01,755 action verbs and, like, all the classic copy advice, but 67 00:04:01,755 --> 00:04:05,194 you just kinda wanna take all of that advice and concentrate it into 68 00:04:05,194 --> 00:04:08,635 each post. So instead of trying to keep up with the election 69 00:04:08,635 --> 00:04:12,330 content by making tons and tons of content to, like, override it, 70 00:04:12,410 --> 00:04:15,930 You wanna make sure everything you put out is, like, just really 71 00:04:15,930 --> 00:04:19,450 concentrated. It's exactly your message, and it's speaking specifically to your 72 00:04:19,450 --> 00:04:23,050 people. You don't wanna try to win over the people who are 73 00:04:23,050 --> 00:04:26,430 talking about politics to be interested in your stuff. I don't think that's helpful. 74 00:04:27,125 --> 00:04:30,725 You want to win over your people who are gonna buy from you because that's 75 00:04:30,725 --> 00:04:34,425 the point. Yeah. Yeah. I think I love the word potency. 76 00:04:35,285 --> 00:04:38,885 I I think that's just a generally a good piece of advice for 77 00:04:38,885 --> 00:04:42,710 social media content is, like, make it something that people feel like 78 00:04:42,710 --> 00:04:46,470 they they got sustenance from it instead of it feeling like light and 79 00:04:46,470 --> 00:04:50,150 fluffy. Love that. Josephine, what about you? I'm interested in hearing about 80 00:04:50,150 --> 00:04:53,670 how you're also approaching this with your clients as well, but for your 81 00:04:53,670 --> 00:04:57,255 business too. How do we not get lost in the sea of electric 82 00:04:57,255 --> 00:04:59,995 content? Yeah. I would say, 83 00:05:01,255 --> 00:05:04,715 Megan's word is potency, and I would add to that consistency. 84 00:05:05,574 --> 00:05:09,300 So, we are planning on staying really nimble for our 85 00:05:09,300 --> 00:05:13,060 clients around election day and thereafter given kind 86 00:05:13,060 --> 00:05:16,420 of how the 2020 election went. We know there's gonna be a lot of 87 00:05:16,420 --> 00:05:19,925 anxiety, and, also, who knows what's gonna 88 00:05:19,925 --> 00:05:23,605 happen with uprisings or whatever. We are, 89 00:05:23,605 --> 00:05:26,885 like, loyal to astrology in our business, and, 90 00:05:27,205 --> 00:05:30,965 there's a lot going on there. So, we 91 00:05:30,965 --> 00:05:34,520 are really trying to stay nimble with clients' content, 92 00:05:34,820 --> 00:05:38,580 and, election time is also gonna be competing with holiday noise. 93 00:05:38,580 --> 00:05:42,360 And, so we're we're staying consistent. 94 00:05:42,660 --> 00:05:46,100 We're putting out potent content, as as Megan said, 95 00:05:46,340 --> 00:05:49,755 speaking to the right people and our people, but 96 00:05:49,995 --> 00:05:53,755 not necessarily expecting tons of gains in q 4. We're not 97 00:05:53,755 --> 00:05:57,435 doing big campaigns. We're staying consistent and knowing 98 00:05:57,435 --> 00:06:00,955 that we might need to push content at any point. And, luckily, our 99 00:06:00,955 --> 00:06:04,795 processes give us lots of room to do that. So as we're thinking about q 100 00:06:04,795 --> 00:06:08,290 4, we just did strategy brainstorms and content planning for all of our 101 00:06:08,290 --> 00:06:12,130 clients. November and the beginning of December is definitely there's 102 00:06:12,130 --> 00:06:15,810 a lot of flex room in there for whatever needs to happen. And, also, 103 00:06:15,810 --> 00:06:19,445 we'll add around, January with the transition 104 00:06:19,445 --> 00:06:23,285 of power, with the new person coming in. We're also 105 00:06:23,285 --> 00:06:26,885 planning for flexibility around that time too. Yeah. I think this 106 00:06:26,885 --> 00:06:30,265 election is an interesting one too because initially, 107 00:06:31,210 --> 00:06:34,889 we thought there could be like a renewal, right? Like, 108 00:06:34,889 --> 00:06:38,490 oh, there could be the same guy, but literally, it'll be different people. Well, I 109 00:06:38,490 --> 00:06:42,250 guess it's the same. But it's it's unique. It's 110 00:06:42,250 --> 00:06:45,770 like a unique situation. So like, brace ourselves for what happened. I remember what 111 00:06:45,770 --> 00:06:49,445 happened in January or was that 2021 or 2020 112 00:06:49,505 --> 00:06:52,805 with the yeah, that was wild. 113 00:06:53,104 --> 00:06:56,865 So it is all about I love the word nimble. I love 114 00:06:56,865 --> 00:07:00,480 that because I think that's just the name since 2020, that's just 115 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,160 been the name of the game because we can't just preschedule our 116 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,680 posts like we used to. Right? I used to see ads all the time that 117 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,440 was like, we'll create 365 pieces 118 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:15,025 of content in one day, And then you preschedule it and that's your content for 119 00:07:15,025 --> 00:07:18,865 the year. You can't do that anymore because it'll be 120 00:07:18,865 --> 00:07:21,505 out of touch and it could be insensitive. So you kinda have to have your 121 00:07:21,505 --> 00:07:23,845 ear to the ground for a lot of these things. 122 00:07:25,450 --> 00:07:29,290 So you mentioned being nimble, but I'm curious. This is a follow-up, Josephine, for 123 00:07:29,290 --> 00:07:32,990 you. And then, Meg, Meg and I love to get your opinion as well. 124 00:07:33,770 --> 00:07:37,290 So when something happens, what are we doing? Are you 125 00:07:37,290 --> 00:07:41,105 joining in the conversation? Are you just pausing content completely? 126 00:07:41,165 --> 00:07:44,605 Like, what's your approach when something happens in the 127 00:07:44,605 --> 00:07:47,825 news? Take a recent example, 128 00:07:48,125 --> 00:07:51,185 the assassination attempt on former president Trump. 129 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,640 Are we still posting? Do we take a break from posting? Like, do we join 130 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:58,140 the conversation? Do we release a statement? What's your thoughts? 131 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,820 Yeah. We gotta take it day by day, around here. 132 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,345 I think, when I was preparing for this, I was thinking about 133 00:08:07,345 --> 00:08:10,645 the debate, and how coming out of the debate, 134 00:08:11,025 --> 00:08:14,165 there were so many memes and, 135 00:08:14,625 --> 00:08:18,005 clips that, even brands were were capitalizing, 136 00:08:18,145 --> 00:08:21,830 especially Kamala's face. I saw social media 137 00:08:21,830 --> 00:08:25,430 agencies using that to say, like, when they tell you they want the whole year 138 00:08:25,430 --> 00:08:29,270 scheduled out, and then she has, like, a smirk, on her face. You know? Like, 139 00:08:29,270 --> 00:08:32,950 that kind of thing, lighthearted, in the moment, on 140 00:08:32,950 --> 00:08:36,554 trend, great. Assassination attempt, that's a 141 00:08:36,554 --> 00:08:40,395 whole other ball of wax. And, I mean, for our 142 00:08:40,395 --> 00:08:44,235 clients in particular, none that does not relate to their content or 143 00:08:44,235 --> 00:08:47,855 their business area at all. So, we continued 144 00:08:47,995 --> 00:08:51,410 on as, as grim as that might 145 00:08:51,410 --> 00:08:55,250 sound. It's kind of attempt number 2, and the the 146 00:08:55,250 --> 00:08:58,149 craziness of where we are right now with politics, 147 00:08:59,170 --> 00:09:02,985 it, we didn't even have a conversation about that. But 148 00:09:03,225 --> 00:09:06,285 I I do think that there are we we are having conversations 149 00:09:06,825 --> 00:09:10,425 regularly on Slack about especially with the uprising at the 150 00:09:10,425 --> 00:09:14,105 capitol in January, we paused all post that day. So 151 00:09:14,105 --> 00:09:17,770 it it it kinda depends, And if it's 152 00:09:17,770 --> 00:09:21,610 relevant to the business, I would say, and the values of the business, we would 153 00:09:21,610 --> 00:09:25,370 comment on it or put out a statement. But, like, we have a 10 fish 154 00:09:25,370 --> 00:09:28,750 brand that's actually Norwegian that wouldn't make any sense for them. 155 00:09:29,050 --> 00:09:32,805 Yeah. And that's I love the Norwegian example too because 156 00:09:32,945 --> 00:09:36,785 we're so US centric, in even, 157 00:09:36,785 --> 00:09:40,545 like, I live in Canada. And even in Canada, Canadian 158 00:09:40,545 --> 00:09:44,380 politics is so focused on US politics. Like, we're watching 159 00:09:44,380 --> 00:09:47,900 over here because we're about to have an election too, and it 160 00:09:47,900 --> 00:09:51,660 totally impacts how people vote when, like, the US election results 161 00:09:51,660 --> 00:09:55,020 come in. So it's so wild to think that. And also social media is 162 00:09:55,020 --> 00:09:57,440 global. Content is global. 163 00:09:58,645 --> 00:10:02,245 So, yeah, this is such an interesting conversation. Megan, for your clients, 164 00:10:02,245 --> 00:10:06,085 like, as you're going through especially your business coaching clients, how 165 00:10:06,085 --> 00:10:09,845 are you telling them to approach these topical things that pop 166 00:10:09,845 --> 00:10:13,590 up, and how do they adjust their their strategies based on that? 167 00:10:14,790 --> 00:10:18,630 Well, I think for my business coaching clients, I I tell 168 00:10:18,630 --> 00:10:22,390 them they should do what feels right for them. I'm never gonna tell a client 169 00:10:22,390 --> 00:10:26,150 like you have to be political or you can't be political. Like, that 170 00:10:26,150 --> 00:10:29,565 doesn't feel aligned to me at all. But something I have been 171 00:10:29,565 --> 00:10:33,404 doing a lot of, in the last year of the ongoing genocide 172 00:10:33,404 --> 00:10:37,245 in Palestine is I've really been urging my fellow business owners to use their 173 00:10:37,245 --> 00:10:41,005 influence in order to speak out about this. Because I'm sort of 174 00:10:41,005 --> 00:10:44,820 coming at it from an influencer point of view where I have 1,000, like tens 175 00:10:44,820 --> 00:10:48,580 of thousands of followers on Instagram and on YouTube. And I 176 00:10:48,580 --> 00:10:52,180 do have influence. And I think to not use that 177 00:10:52,180 --> 00:10:55,940 influence to encourage my community to speak 178 00:10:55,940 --> 00:10:59,355 out about something horrific that's happening is kind of 179 00:10:59,355 --> 00:11:03,195 irresponsible. That's that's how I feel for me. And I 180 00:11:03,195 --> 00:11:07,035 want to make sure that other people who also have influence understand 181 00:11:07,035 --> 00:11:10,555 what's going on and can make an informed decision about whether or not to speak 182 00:11:10,555 --> 00:11:14,060 up on it. For instance, I reached out to somebody I'm I'm pretty close to 183 00:11:14,060 --> 00:11:17,740 and hadn't said anything for months about Palestine. And I was 184 00:11:17,740 --> 00:11:21,260 like, hey. I really like you, but I I don't know if I can I 185 00:11:21,260 --> 00:11:25,084 don't know if we can keep hanging out because this is really important? And she 186 00:11:25,084 --> 00:11:28,285 was kinda like, yeah, but, like, it's not my brand. And I was like, they 187 00:11:28,285 --> 00:11:32,045 found concentration camps. And she's like, what? Wait. I didn't know that. 188 00:11:32,045 --> 00:11:35,405 That changes everything. And so sometimes people just don't 189 00:11:35,405 --> 00:11:39,085 know. And so I have found my job is to 190 00:11:39,485 --> 00:11:43,290 even though, like you said, there's so much election content, so much political 191 00:11:43,290 --> 00:11:47,129 content. There are some people who don't have any of that. And 192 00:11:47,129 --> 00:11:50,889 like sometimes that's just the way they want it, but sometimes it's just an 193 00:11:50,889 --> 00:11:54,565 accident of the algorithm, kind of. And sometimes 194 00:11:55,105 --> 00:11:58,625 I just like to let people know if you can influence people to buy your 195 00:11:58,625 --> 00:12:02,385 program, you can influence people to have an opinion about politics as 196 00:12:02,385 --> 00:12:05,825 well. And that's a huge responsibility that I think we should take really 197 00:12:05,825 --> 00:12:09,570 seriously. Yeah. I I like this conversation 198 00:12:09,710 --> 00:12:13,470 because I take a little bit of a different approach, and I 199 00:12:13,470 --> 00:12:17,310 like to share the varying approaches. And this is something that you and I talked 200 00:12:17,310 --> 00:12:20,305 about, Megan, which is there's so many 201 00:12:20,685 --> 00:12:24,445 terrible, awful things happening in the world that I 202 00:12:24,445 --> 00:12:27,805 actually find it very challenging to speak to many of 203 00:12:27,805 --> 00:12:31,485 them. Because in my opinion, if I start speaking about 204 00:12:31,485 --> 00:12:35,330 1, I do feel the responsibility to speak about all of them. And 205 00:12:35,870 --> 00:12:39,630 also, I speak to about them in safe spaces for me. I do 206 00:12:39,630 --> 00:12:43,150 not think social media is a safe space for me. I would 207 00:12:43,150 --> 00:12:46,750 never post something where I know that people are going to get 208 00:12:46,750 --> 00:12:50,175 heated about it for me personally, But I will talk about it in my 209 00:12:50,175 --> 00:12:53,774 communities. I will talk about it on, you know, paid client calls or I will 210 00:12:53,774 --> 00:12:57,535 talk about it, you know, on maybe even podcast conversations because it 211 00:12:57,535 --> 00:13:00,975 feels a little bit safer than the TikTok 212 00:13:00,975 --> 00:13:04,390 algorithm, for instance. I am not that brave. There 213 00:13:04,550 --> 00:13:08,150 people in there are too heated. And so I love that 214 00:13:08,150 --> 00:13:11,930 you have such a strong stance on it because 215 00:13:11,990 --> 00:13:15,590 the value systems are there. And I think, both of you have 216 00:13:15,590 --> 00:13:19,165 mentioned leaning into values as a piece of 217 00:13:19,165 --> 00:13:22,605 this. So why why like, how do 218 00:13:22,605 --> 00:13:26,444 we how do we establish our value system there? Like, what are some of the 219 00:13:26,444 --> 00:13:30,125 things that you think about when you're like, is this something I wanna share, 220 00:13:30,125 --> 00:13:33,904 or is this not something I wanna share? I'll start with you, Justine. 221 00:13:34,950 --> 00:13:38,170 Yeah. That's a perfect segue because I was thinking 222 00:13:38,870 --> 00:13:42,630 my kind of approach between Andre, you're saying, like, take 223 00:13:42,630 --> 00:13:46,390 it offline, talk about it in your safe spaces, and advocate for 224 00:13:46,390 --> 00:13:49,995 the things that you're really passionate about, and Megan, you're like, I wanna 225 00:13:50,535 --> 00:13:54,295 use this platform and that feels safe to you and and important 226 00:13:54,295 --> 00:13:57,755 to you. Those are both, you know, you're sticking to your individual values. 227 00:13:58,295 --> 00:14:02,075 And I I I kind of am a medium between that 228 00:14:02,615 --> 00:14:06,399 where I encourage, well, our own brand, but also 229 00:14:06,399 --> 00:14:10,079 our clients that we are not marketing to everyone. And 230 00:14:10,079 --> 00:14:13,760 so if we say something that is political, it's gonna bring in the right 231 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:17,600 people, and it's gonna take out the wrong people, and especially if 232 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:21,385 it's through the lens of your value or your values. So, like, 233 00:14:21,385 --> 00:14:24,985 for an example, one of our clients is, a 234 00:14:24,985 --> 00:14:28,745 local farmer's market, and they when I was 235 00:14:28,745 --> 00:14:32,410 writing their, social media brand voice guide, we were 236 00:14:32,410 --> 00:14:36,170 going through the question of, do we talk about politics? But they 237 00:14:36,170 --> 00:14:39,770 feel really strongly that food is political and especially local food and 238 00:14:39,770 --> 00:14:43,370 farming is political. And in the state of Colorado, water rights are a 239 00:14:43,370 --> 00:14:47,065 huge thing and and water in general, like, we're advocating 240 00:14:47,285 --> 00:14:51,125 for farmers to have access and all that. So there's so many political aspects 241 00:14:51,125 --> 00:14:54,885 of food. And we put in the brand voice guide, we are 242 00:14:54,885 --> 00:14:58,645 political. We talk about politics. And it's not necessarily we talk about 243 00:14:58,645 --> 00:15:02,060 Donald Trump and Kamala Harris. It's we talk about the local 244 00:15:02,060 --> 00:15:05,740 legislation of what's happening with farming and water rights. And 245 00:15:05,740 --> 00:15:09,120 so and, we had a regenerative agriculture certification, 246 00:15:09,899 --> 00:15:13,420 same kind of thing, like food and and the environment are 247 00:15:13,420 --> 00:15:16,945 political. So let's take that angle and show our values, attract the 248 00:15:16,945 --> 00:15:20,545 people who, we know want to be a part of our 249 00:15:20,545 --> 00:15:24,065 community, and really repel the other people that 250 00:15:24,065 --> 00:15:27,505 aren't aren't gonna be a good fit, which, in such a 251 00:15:27,505 --> 00:15:31,110 noisy atmosphere on social media, I think, is, like, the best thing you 252 00:15:31,110 --> 00:15:34,810 can do. And can I jump in real quick too about 253 00:15:35,670 --> 00:15:39,370 what is considered political and what isn't? Right. 254 00:15:39,990 --> 00:15:43,610 I saw an amazing post on threads the other night that said, okay, so 255 00:15:44,015 --> 00:15:47,775 white women can listen to podcasts about white women being murdered, and it's like a 256 00:15:47,775 --> 00:15:51,375 fun hobby. But like, when I stand up for missing and 257 00:15:51,375 --> 00:15:54,915 murdered indigenous women, that's political. Like, why though? 258 00:15:55,375 --> 00:15:59,209 And I think what is considered political is hugely dependent 259 00:15:59,209 --> 00:16:02,970 upon the identity of the person speaking and the identities of the people you're speaking 260 00:16:02,970 --> 00:16:06,730 about. And that's why it's so controversial to say that what's happening in 261 00:16:06,730 --> 00:16:10,405 Palestine is a genocide, but like, it wouldn't be controversial if it 262 00:16:10,405 --> 00:16:14,085 happened in New York City. Right? Like, so yeah, 263 00:16:14,085 --> 00:16:17,465 I just think it's interesting to talk about what is political and what isn't. 264 00:16:18,325 --> 00:16:22,100 Kelly Yeah, 100%. Just like living in 265 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,460 a black body is suddenly like, things are unintentionally 266 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,839 political where I'm like, I'm just sharing my experience over here, 267 00:16:29,839 --> 00:16:33,520 right? And people get heated about it. And I think it is one of 268 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,985 those things where that is the question. What exactly 269 00:16:37,204 --> 00:16:40,964 becomes political? And to me, it's like other people 270 00:16:40,964 --> 00:16:44,644 are starting to get uncomfortable about the conversation and 271 00:16:44,644 --> 00:16:48,300 then they start lashing out in their discomfort. And that's 272 00:16:48,300 --> 00:16:51,980 sometimes when you you feel like you hit on it. And I am I will 273 00:16:51,980 --> 00:16:55,819 be honest. I avoid it at all costs to protect myself 274 00:16:55,819 --> 00:16:59,519 and my own mental health. And also, it's almost entirely 275 00:16:59,740 --> 00:17:03,545 unavoidable because of just the state of the world, how I 276 00:17:03,545 --> 00:17:07,305 live, and my belief systems and my values. They just show up in a 277 00:17:07,305 --> 00:17:11,145 certain way. So I love that we're that it's in the 278 00:17:11,145 --> 00:17:14,825 brand voice guide of your clients. It's like, this is the stance we 279 00:17:14,825 --> 00:17:18,380 take, and we firmly believe this. Beautiful. Love that. 280 00:17:18,539 --> 00:17:22,160 Anything else to add for either of you? I I wanted to say 281 00:17:22,220 --> 00:17:25,839 for our own personal brand, I Slacked my cofounder, 282 00:17:26,380 --> 00:17:30,140 Alina, the other day and said, should we do a a social post about 283 00:17:30,140 --> 00:17:33,794 truth social, like, as a joke? And we made this 284 00:17:33,794 --> 00:17:37,635 meme that says when our clients ask if we're on truth social and it's like 285 00:17:37,635 --> 00:17:41,315 someone puking, and we and we were like, do we post 286 00:17:41,315 --> 00:17:45,154 it? But Alina Alina just had a gut feeling like, well, yeah, 287 00:17:45,154 --> 00:17:48,940 I think this is this is good, and it's funny. And it's one 288 00:17:48,940 --> 00:17:52,700 of our best performing posts that we've ever done. So that's the perfect example of, 289 00:17:52,700 --> 00:17:56,460 like, that pulled in the people that we wanted, and not necessarily 290 00:17:56,460 --> 00:18:00,059 that we don't want Trump supporters or we do want Kamala, you know, all 291 00:18:00,059 --> 00:18:03,545 that. It's it's like, the values of of, 292 00:18:03,865 --> 00:18:07,625 of our, company. So, I think 293 00:18:07,625 --> 00:18:11,465 listening to your gut on on and it's lighthearted, but on that kind of 294 00:18:11,465 --> 00:18:15,240 content comes in handy. Yes. I love 295 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,840 the lightheartedness. And this is actually my next question about 296 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,820 staying lighthearted when things get serious. 297 00:18:22,919 --> 00:18:26,299 Megan, how do you approach, like, the balance 298 00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:29,179 of, yes, we're talking about serious topics, 299 00:18:29,855 --> 00:18:33,535 genocide, concentration camps, and yes, we can also 300 00:18:33,535 --> 00:18:36,915 be like a human on the other side of it and have lighthearted 301 00:18:36,975 --> 00:18:40,515 experience. How do we balance that? I think that's a bigger question 302 00:18:40,895 --> 00:18:43,935 for like a day to day basis, but for the very least in our marketing, 303 00:18:43,935 --> 00:18:47,530 how do we balance that? I think I've got a lot of practice 304 00:18:47,590 --> 00:18:51,370 doing this as, like, a disabled person. Right? I'm autistic. I have ADHD, 305 00:18:51,990 --> 00:18:55,830 and those are disabilities, and they come with very real limitations and 306 00:18:55,830 --> 00:18:59,525 struggles day to day. And at the same time, sometimes it's 307 00:18:59,525 --> 00:19:02,965 really funny when I find my car keys in the freezer, like, you 308 00:19:02,965 --> 00:19:05,225 know, so it can be both. 309 00:19:07,205 --> 00:19:10,950 And I think I'm I've had a lot of practice with, like, dialectical 310 00:19:11,269 --> 00:19:15,029 behavioral therapy, which is where, like, you hold opposing truths at the same 311 00:19:15,029 --> 00:19:18,470 time. And so personally, I don't go 312 00:19:18,470 --> 00:19:21,990 lighthearted when things are heavy, and I don't go heavy when things are lighthearted. I 313 00:19:21,990 --> 00:19:25,590 just let everything mix together. So, like, yesterday, for example, on my 314 00:19:25,590 --> 00:19:29,165 stories on Instagram, I posted just a black 315 00:19:29,225 --> 00:19:33,065 background, and it just said had another nightmare about Palestine. My subconscious can't make 316 00:19:33,065 --> 00:19:36,505 sense of this. And then the next slide, I was like, come to my open 317 00:19:36,505 --> 00:19:39,980 house for my program. It's gonna be fun. And, like, that's 318 00:19:39,980 --> 00:19:43,500 that's my vibe. That that's what it is to be alive right now, and I'm 319 00:19:43,500 --> 00:19:47,340 not gonna try to sugarcoat it or change it. Yeah. This is just the 320 00:19:47,340 --> 00:19:50,940 reality of it all. And I think while the Internet is a 321 00:19:50,940 --> 00:19:54,635 beautiful thing to find positive things, I also think it's 322 00:19:54,635 --> 00:19:58,475 beautiful that we're aware of what's happening in the world because of the Internet. Right? 323 00:19:58,475 --> 00:20:02,235 Like, go back, what, 30, 40 years ago, and we may not 324 00:20:02,235 --> 00:20:05,935 have this, like, this quick of an access to some of the news cycles. 325 00:20:07,210 --> 00:20:10,650 I this is such a beautiful thing. So let me talk about, like, 326 00:20:10,650 --> 00:20:14,169 pausing social media because I'm a huge fan of 327 00:20:14,169 --> 00:20:17,870 it. So whenever anything anything slightly 328 00:20:18,904 --> 00:20:21,645 contentious or hot topic y or, 329 00:20:23,705 --> 00:20:27,385 newsworthy hits, my first instinct is like hit the big old 330 00:20:27,385 --> 00:20:31,164 pause button. And I think there's often repercussions 331 00:20:31,544 --> 00:20:35,360 of that as well. But that's my go to first instinct. 332 00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:39,120 So something happens, upheaval happens. What are 333 00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:42,500 your opinions on going silent when it's like a major 334 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:46,660 world event? Josephine, let's start with you. 335 00:20:46,934 --> 00:20:50,534 Yeah. Unfortunately, we've had that conversation so many times, too many 336 00:20:50,534 --> 00:20:54,215 times with mass shootings, that that's that comes to 337 00:20:54,215 --> 00:20:57,975 mind, especially, like, we've worked with in mental 338 00:20:57,975 --> 00:21:01,560 health, and, that feels very value 339 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:05,400 aligned to talk about that. And I remember after Uvalde, with 340 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,440 our mental health client, we did a notes app, 341 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:12,520 of, I can't remember exactly what we wrote, but it was kind of 342 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:16,125 like, take a minute, get off social media if you need to, 343 00:21:16,125 --> 00:21:19,825 Bree. That was like a prompt to help people, and there was another shooting. 344 00:21:20,205 --> 00:21:23,804 I think it was like on a subway in New York City, which is where 345 00:21:23,804 --> 00:21:27,325 the client was based. So there were multiple times where we made content. We didn't 346 00:21:27,325 --> 00:21:31,070 pause, but we were we were trying to be the therapist, you know, for 347 00:21:31,070 --> 00:21:33,890 for these people or at least give them some, 348 00:21:34,750 --> 00:21:38,429 something to help them rather than pausing. So I think that's a that's a 349 00:21:38,429 --> 00:21:40,929 pretty unique situation where, 350 00:21:42,305 --> 00:21:45,825 we felt like we needed to provide guidance in a way or help in a 351 00:21:45,825 --> 00:21:49,585 way, but I'm also very pro pausing, if 352 00:21:49,585 --> 00:21:53,265 there are, like, on other accounts for the 353 00:21:53,265 --> 00:21:56,980 Uvalde shooting and other mass shootings. We have paused 354 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:00,640 all content because no one needs, you know, no one needs 355 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,020 extra that day. And, so we usually 356 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,920 evaluate it if we can help or if we have resources for that 357 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,380 particular, like, a big event, that's happening, 358 00:22:11,705 --> 00:22:15,305 then we share it. If not, we can step back and and be quiet. And 359 00:22:15,305 --> 00:22:18,985 this happened I mean, I launched my business in 2020 in the midst 360 00:22:18,985 --> 00:22:22,585 of June, you know, the the the summer of Black Lives 361 00:22:22,585 --> 00:22:26,340 Matter, and has continued on, but, we did 362 00:22:26,340 --> 00:22:30,100 a lot of of talking. And I honestly I was working with clients at the 363 00:22:30,100 --> 00:22:33,700 time who were like, nope. Let's just keep posting. And I was like, I 364 00:22:33,700 --> 00:22:37,220 can't I can't work for you, you know? That's just a that's a personal line 365 00:22:37,220 --> 00:22:40,545 for me. If you're not gonna acknowledge what's going on or do something 366 00:22:41,085 --> 00:22:44,845 and continue to post about your newsletter, like, I can't I can't personally 367 00:22:44,845 --> 00:22:48,605 be involved in that. Yeah. Yeah. We, we lost some clients 368 00:22:48,605 --> 00:22:52,365 too, June of 2020, because of that. We're like, so this 369 00:22:52,365 --> 00:22:56,070 is happening, and we posted about other things that are happening in 370 00:22:56,070 --> 00:22:59,610 this thing. You're just like, does it matter? Okay, cool. Great. 371 00:22:59,750 --> 00:23:03,430 Nice to know you. Okay, Megan, what about you? Like, 372 00:23:03,430 --> 00:23:07,050 how do you feel about pausing or going silent during major 373 00:23:07,190 --> 00:23:10,885 political or social events? I have 374 00:23:10,885 --> 00:23:14,345 mixed feelings. So first, there's like my general, 375 00:23:14,725 --> 00:23:17,365 it really doesn't have to do with my beliefs. It just has to do with 376 00:23:17,365 --> 00:23:20,185 my nervous system. I tend to, 377 00:23:21,525 --> 00:23:24,905 whenever something freaky or scary or whatever happens, 378 00:23:25,180 --> 00:23:29,020 I want to post about it because for lots 379 00:23:29,020 --> 00:23:32,780 of reasons, but like my attachment and nervous system is just 380 00:23:32,780 --> 00:23:36,380 like, I need to do something I need to be seen and I need to 381 00:23:36,380 --> 00:23:39,785 be held and like, I want attention 382 00:23:40,005 --> 00:23:43,845 so that I can, like, be safe. And that's 383 00:23:43,845 --> 00:23:47,525 how it works in my head. That's often not how it goes. That's 384 00:23:47,605 --> 00:23:51,205 I think pausing is actually a really good idea. It's something I'm working on doing 385 00:23:51,205 --> 00:23:54,840 more. But my instinct, if I'm being honest, is like, no, I should 386 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,720 post. No, I should be part of this. No. I, like, I shouldn't look away. 387 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,320 I shouldn't breathe. But I think that comes from a very naive place of social 388 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,440 justice where it's like, oh, if I just post and get really outraged, this will 389 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:08,275 fix itself and everything will be better. But, like, in reality, 390 00:24:08,415 --> 00:24:12,035 social justice is a lifelong civilization long 391 00:24:12,655 --> 00:24:16,095 thing. And, like, if you don't breathe, you're 392 00:24:16,095 --> 00:24:19,934 gonna not be part of the movement anymore. And so that's something I 393 00:24:19,934 --> 00:24:23,580 have learned the hard way over and over. But I also think there are 394 00:24:23,580 --> 00:24:27,260 pauses that go a little too long. There was, you 395 00:24:27,260 --> 00:24:31,100 know, this creator I've really looked up to and really liked, and 396 00:24:31,100 --> 00:24:34,700 they had spoken up on all kinds of social justice issues. And then everything started 397 00:24:34,700 --> 00:24:38,125 happening in Palestine, and they were saying nothing, they were saying nothing. They were saying 398 00:24:38,125 --> 00:24:41,425 nothing. And people started to ask, like, hey, 399 00:24:42,205 --> 00:24:46,045 and their response was, we've responded too quickly in the past. We don't wanna 400 00:24:46,045 --> 00:24:49,740 do that again. We're taking a moment. And I was like, okay, I think I 401 00:24:49,740 --> 00:24:53,040 disagree. But okay. This went on for months, 402 00:24:53,500 --> 00:24:56,720 this pause, and they finally started 403 00:24:57,020 --> 00:25:00,640 getting involved. But then with the first Trump assassination 404 00:25:00,780 --> 00:25:04,595 attempt, they put content out 6 days later. I'm sorry, you need 405 00:25:04,595 --> 00:25:08,274 to be consistent. If you're gonna pause, pause. And if you're not, don't, but it 406 00:25:08,274 --> 00:25:12,034 really lets us know what's important to you, I guess. And yeah, 407 00:25:12,034 --> 00:25:15,715 so I'm working on pausing more because I think 408 00:25:15,715 --> 00:25:18,310 I lean too far the other way. 409 00:25:19,410 --> 00:25:23,010 Yeah. Okay. So this brings me to my next question because I feel like as 410 00:25:23,010 --> 00:25:26,630 business owners, sometimes we are so worried about getting it wrong. 411 00:25:26,690 --> 00:25:30,315 Because social media is so freaking public, everyone sees our 412 00:25:30,315 --> 00:25:33,755 content, and we're opening ourselves up to feedback and to 413 00:25:33,755 --> 00:25:37,595 criticism with every single thing that we post. So how 414 00:25:37,595 --> 00:25:41,035 do we navigate this idea of, like, should I, shouldn't 415 00:25:41,035 --> 00:25:44,750 I? What if I get it wrong? And I know, Megan, we talked 416 00:25:44,750 --> 00:25:48,270 about this on our episodes because you have had 417 00:25:48,270 --> 00:25:51,950 this history. So I wanna start with you. You know, how do we 418 00:25:52,190 --> 00:25:55,630 like, what do we think about when we're like, is this the right thing to 419 00:25:55,630 --> 00:25:59,345 do for me? I think I used to 420 00:25:59,345 --> 00:26:03,025 feel a lot more lost about this. I used to be very 421 00:26:03,025 --> 00:26:06,865 reactive. I still like, my nature is to be reactive, but I'm 422 00:26:06,865 --> 00:26:10,325 able to handle it a lot better now because I did get canceled. And, 423 00:26:10,770 --> 00:26:14,530 like, I very much learned my lesson in that I learned a couple of 424 00:26:14,530 --> 00:26:18,290 lessons, not everybody who says they're there for you is. But also 425 00:26:18,290 --> 00:26:21,350 I learned like, hey, not every opinion you have is a good one. 426 00:26:21,890 --> 00:26:25,510 Sometimes you need to hush and learn and be a little more humble. 427 00:26:25,885 --> 00:26:29,325 And so when I got canceled, one of the first things I did was I 428 00:26:29,325 --> 00:26:33,164 need to outline my values because I'm not sure what I even value anymore. I 429 00:26:33,164 --> 00:26:36,544 think I'm just chasing likes, which is something I never wanted to do. 430 00:26:37,325 --> 00:26:40,890 So I outlined my values. And now before I post something, I just 431 00:26:40,890 --> 00:26:44,730 kinda run through those values. And if I'm not sure if it fits 432 00:26:44,730 --> 00:26:48,410 my values, I'm explicit about that. So I will say stuff all the time like, 433 00:26:48,410 --> 00:26:52,170 hey, please let me know if I am wrong about this, 434 00:26:52,170 --> 00:26:55,575 but here's where I'm coming from. Does anybody else see it this way? 435 00:26:55,815 --> 00:26:59,274 And that's that's how I phrase my opinions now instead of the super clickbaity, 436 00:26:59,414 --> 00:27:03,095 like, you know? Yeah. Yeah. The 437 00:27:03,095 --> 00:27:06,635 value system, again, comes up again. We just did this exercise 438 00:27:06,934 --> 00:27:10,534 in my membership where we created our POV statement. So it was, 439 00:27:10,534 --> 00:27:14,250 like, here is what I believe about me. Here's what my 440 00:27:14,250 --> 00:27:18,010 people believe about the world around them. And then you can check yourself every 441 00:27:18,010 --> 00:27:21,850 time you post and go, does this post align with the beliefs of 442 00:27:21,850 --> 00:27:25,585 my business? And I do think that's a very powerful exercise 443 00:27:25,585 --> 00:27:29,385 to go through. And it's one that I took my clients through back in 444 00:27:29,385 --> 00:27:32,765 2020 when Black Lives Matter was happening. People were posting 445 00:27:32,825 --> 00:27:36,600 statements out of a reactive place instead of a 446 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:40,060 values aligned place. And sometimes those statements just happen to align. 447 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,200 But the people who missed the mark were the people who didn't even 448 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,980 take the time to think about their business values or their personal values first. 449 00:27:48,235 --> 00:27:51,774 And I do think that's, that's a really good starting point. 450 00:27:52,315 --> 00:27:55,695 Josephine, what about you? Like, you and your clients, 451 00:27:56,875 --> 00:28:00,394 when we're worried about getting it wrong or stepping in it, how do we 452 00:28:00,394 --> 00:28:03,840 navigate those feelings? Yeah. It's super 453 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,680 interesting hearing about, Megan, your experience as a 454 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,440 creator, you know, and a business owner, thinking through 455 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,820 your personal values. And on our side, we're working with, 456 00:28:15,685 --> 00:28:19,045 businesses that have a, a lot of times, have a a chain of 457 00:28:19,045 --> 00:28:22,565 command. It's not just one person making the 458 00:28:22,565 --> 00:28:26,325 decisions, which can be frustrating, and it's hard 459 00:28:26,325 --> 00:28:30,130 to get a quick reaction. And and in some cases, we net 460 00:28:30,210 --> 00:28:33,270 we never get a quick reaction, out of, 461 00:28:33,809 --> 00:28:37,409 like, a an an event or something going on. It's 462 00:28:37,409 --> 00:28:40,850 too corporate for something like that. Or, like, for 463 00:28:40,850 --> 00:28:44,655 example, we actually had 2 clients, earlier this 464 00:28:44,655 --> 00:28:48,495 year that we weren't allowed to use the term sustainably or 465 00:28:48,495 --> 00:28:51,395 sustainable in their marketing for two different reasons. 466 00:28:52,255 --> 00:28:55,080 One was a climate client that was, 467 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,480 saying, we are not we are not trying to make, the earth 468 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,260 sustainable. We're already we have to we have to, like, 469 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,240 go go one step beyond sustainable and and regenerate the 470 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,995 earth. So that was one side. And then a really corporate client that 471 00:29:10,995 --> 00:29:14,675 was like, we can't technically say that our cans are sustainable, you 472 00:29:14,675 --> 00:29:18,455 know, on that side of things. So, the and and sustainability 473 00:29:18,995 --> 00:29:22,835 is also a bit political, or very political depending 474 00:29:22,835 --> 00:29:26,350 on how you look at it. So those are our chains of command 475 00:29:26,490 --> 00:29:30,090 that we are, I don't know if that's the right term, 476 00:29:30,090 --> 00:29:33,770 but, we're hearing from our clients that and we're 477 00:29:33,770 --> 00:29:37,289 pushing back, from whatever we're seeing online. We're getting peep 478 00:29:37,529 --> 00:29:41,375 people asking, asking, are your tins recyclable or things like that? And 479 00:29:41,375 --> 00:29:44,915 we're giving the social listening piece of it to help inform their 480 00:29:45,215 --> 00:29:48,195 top down, communication or marketing approach, 481 00:29:49,295 --> 00:29:53,120 which I love. I love the piece where we get to show them what their 482 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,960 community is saying, for all of our clients. It really helps 483 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,800 inform their values even in a way and make, like, the top 484 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,575 down change from the people they're serving. Yes. Again, the 485 00:30:04,735 --> 00:30:08,255 values come into play. And even with the bigger companies, it may take longer 486 00:30:08,255 --> 00:30:12,014 to, get there with the values, but they like, in both of 487 00:30:12,014 --> 00:30:15,615 the examples you shared, there is a decision that's being made and a 488 00:30:15,615 --> 00:30:19,075 stance that's being taken. And I think the 489 00:30:19,530 --> 00:30:23,130 challenge becomes if you don't if you don't take a stance, then the 490 00:30:23,130 --> 00:30:26,810 assumption will be, your your community will make assumptions about 491 00:30:26,810 --> 00:30:30,110 your stance. And so I love that came up in both of your examples. 492 00:30:30,490 --> 00:30:34,305 Both of you also mentioned instances where 493 00:30:34,305 --> 00:30:38,145 you used the levity of the situation or 494 00:30:38,145 --> 00:30:40,805 you transition into promoting your offer, 495 00:30:42,145 --> 00:30:45,970 in spite of whatever was happening in the world. And one of the questions that 496 00:30:45,970 --> 00:30:49,809 I often get is, is that opportunistic? Right? Like, are we taking 497 00:30:49,809 --> 00:30:53,490 advantage of something that's happening? For so for example, with the debates, the 498 00:30:53,490 --> 00:30:57,330 comma memes, I posted a comma meme. I love it. 499 00:30:57,330 --> 00:31:00,965 I think it's I think it's, fun. It's a fun way to kind of 500 00:31:00,965 --> 00:31:04,645 integrate the election content into what I'm already 501 00:31:04,645 --> 00:31:08,325 talking about, and there is this little thought like, am I being 502 00:31:08,325 --> 00:31:11,705 opportunistic? What are your thoughts on this? I'll start with you, Megan. 503 00:31:12,790 --> 00:31:16,470 Oh, I love this question. I kinda think yes and no. 504 00:31:16,470 --> 00:31:20,230 I I think I see both sides of it a lot because I think 505 00:31:20,230 --> 00:31:24,070 it could be considered opportunistic because it it makes me think of 506 00:31:24,070 --> 00:31:27,555 the bread and circuses thing where it's like, we're just contributing to this 507 00:31:27,715 --> 00:31:31,555 huge political circus that's going on in our country 508 00:31:31,555 --> 00:31:35,315 where it's entertainment more than it's sticking up for people. And I 509 00:31:35,315 --> 00:31:38,915 don't love that. Like, I don't post about Trump anymore. I don't post anything about 510 00:31:38,915 --> 00:31:42,570 Trump anymore. People can gain how I feel about him based on 511 00:31:42,570 --> 00:31:46,330 everything else I support and don't support. Because that's what he wants. 512 00:31:46,330 --> 00:31:49,450 That gives him what he wants. And I'm not interested in that. So I just 513 00:31:49,450 --> 00:31:52,889 don't post about him. Like anything that happens with him is just not my 514 00:31:52,889 --> 00:31:56,645 business. But when it comes to people 515 00:31:56,645 --> 00:32:00,325 I am considering supporting and stuff, it's like, well, I 516 00:32:00,325 --> 00:32:03,845 just, to me, it doesn't I don't know if 517 00:32:03,845 --> 00:32:07,625 opportunistic, that's such like a heavy word to me. Like, it feels really, like, aggressive. 518 00:32:07,685 --> 00:32:11,520 So it's more just, is it a distraction from what 519 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,280 politics should be, I guess, is the thing I worry about. Now at the 520 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,540 same time, I think 521 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:22,480 that people who are trying to make a living, people who 522 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,325 are not wealth hoarding billionaires don't 523 00:32:26,325 --> 00:32:29,924 need to worry about being opportunistic as much as, like, these horrible 524 00:32:29,924 --> 00:32:33,144 corporations that are destroying the world. You know? So, like, 525 00:32:33,764 --> 00:32:37,460 I I'm torn. Yeah. It's how I feel about, like, the the 526 00:32:37,460 --> 00:32:41,140 use of plastics. It's like, well, I I feel personally, it should 527 00:32:41,140 --> 00:32:44,899 start with the big corporate people, not me in my trying to save a penny 528 00:32:44,899 --> 00:32:48,740 over here, you know? And, yeah, I I like that stance as well. 529 00:32:48,980 --> 00:32:52,595 Josephine, what do you think about this this idea of being opportunistic 530 00:32:52,895 --> 00:32:56,195 with social and political events? Yeah. 531 00:32:56,495 --> 00:33:00,335 Megan, you had really good points on both sides, not contributing to 532 00:33:00,335 --> 00:33:04,095 the circus of it. But also as a marketer, I 533 00:33:04,095 --> 00:33:07,830 look at it as really good top of funnel content. Like, it's it's 534 00:33:07,830 --> 00:33:11,590 that mean content really is the it's what we 535 00:33:11,590 --> 00:33:15,290 use for most of our clients for, the top of funnel 536 00:33:15,430 --> 00:33:19,270 and gets the most reach and all of that. So, I 537 00:33:19,270 --> 00:33:22,715 like it from that perspective. I've seen it work really well. 538 00:33:24,315 --> 00:33:28,075 And if your business stands for great 539 00:33:28,075 --> 00:33:31,855 things and you're trying to make people's lives better, you're only bringing in 540 00:33:32,075 --> 00:33:35,595 more you're bringing in more sales for your client or yourself, and 541 00:33:35,595 --> 00:33:39,280 you're delivering and making people's lives better through your offer 542 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:43,280 your offerings. So in that way, I can, like, spin 543 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,960 it for myself to say, like, yeah. This is a good thing, and 544 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,400 and we can capitalize on it as long as it's not at someone else's 545 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,655 expense. I definitely think, 546 00:33:54,195 --> 00:33:57,655 I guess I I was using the word lighthearted earlier, but I would say 547 00:33:57,955 --> 00:34:01,715 I'm not here to put people down even if it's someone that like, 548 00:34:01,715 --> 00:34:05,155 a candidate or something that I don't really like. I might 549 00:34:05,155 --> 00:34:08,750 personally post about people in politics 550 00:34:08,969 --> 00:34:12,810 that I don't like or have contempt for, but, on brand 551 00:34:12,810 --> 00:34:15,870 pages, I think as long as it's kind of a a positive, 552 00:34:17,130 --> 00:34:20,795 and it's it's bringing in sales and, help 553 00:34:20,875 --> 00:34:24,235 and viewers and, community members for 554 00:34:24,235 --> 00:34:27,995 clients, and it's not at someone's expense, I'm I'm all for 555 00:34:27,995 --> 00:34:31,435 it. Yeah. Yeah. I love this. And I 556 00:34:31,435 --> 00:34:35,050 think it's part of a larger conversation too. Did y'all hear 557 00:34:35,050 --> 00:34:37,949 about the Sticker Mule Insta incident? 558 00:34:38,650 --> 00:34:42,330 So the founder of Sticker Mule, who's it's just like 559 00:34:42,330 --> 00:34:46,030 a sticker company. Right? It's like one of the top ones, posted 560 00:34:46,090 --> 00:34:49,714 his, I don't know, thesis on why people should 561 00:34:49,714 --> 00:34:53,014 vote for president Trump. And it was 562 00:34:53,315 --> 00:34:57,154 very aggressive for some reason, and he sent it out to everyone on the 563 00:34:57,154 --> 00:35:00,755 mailing list when they're just they're used to just the sticker 564 00:35:00,755 --> 00:35:04,330 stuff. Right? And people did a bunch of, like, 565 00:35:04,330 --> 00:35:08,030 conversations around this because as the 566 00:35:08,170 --> 00:35:11,690 head of the company, he technically like, he's not doing 567 00:35:11,690 --> 00:35:15,150 anything wrong, and a bunch of people very verbally 568 00:35:15,465 --> 00:35:19,225 chose different sticker companies because they didn't agree with what he was 569 00:35:19,225 --> 00:35:22,905 saying. And so I do think that there's this fine line 570 00:35:22,905 --> 00:35:26,745 between, for a brand specifically, there's 571 00:35:26,745 --> 00:35:30,045 a fine line between taking a stance on something. 572 00:35:30,620 --> 00:35:34,300 Megan, you said something earlier about, like, not trying to change people's minds. I don't 573 00:35:34,300 --> 00:35:38,140 think that's the brand's job. I think it is your job to, like, call 574 00:35:38,140 --> 00:35:41,440 in your people. And there's a way he could have done that, I believe. 575 00:35:41,820 --> 00:35:45,265 Maybe just like some Trump stickers, you know, keep it 576 00:35:45,265 --> 00:35:48,945 aligned. And instead, he went very aggressive. The if y'all haven't heard 577 00:35:48,945 --> 00:35:52,245 this, look it up. It's it's a fascinating case study in 578 00:35:52,625 --> 00:35:56,465 brands that that are taking a stance on something. But I'm curious, like, with 579 00:35:56,465 --> 00:35:59,105 that in mind, do either of you have examples of brands that have done it 580 00:35:59,105 --> 00:36:02,610 right? Right? Brands who come to mind where you're like, yeah, they have this 581 00:36:02,610 --> 00:36:06,150 balance of, you know, taking a stance on something 582 00:36:06,290 --> 00:36:08,390 and also promoting their stuff. 583 00:36:10,370 --> 00:36:14,125 I have a a a personal example, actually. When I 584 00:36:14,125 --> 00:36:17,645 was working in house at, a 585 00:36:17,645 --> 00:36:21,005 natural grocery store, we were up against 586 00:36:21,005 --> 00:36:24,765 Publix, a huge conglomerate grocery store, and 587 00:36:24,765 --> 00:36:28,579 we were moving into Florida, which Publix, 588 00:36:28,579 --> 00:36:31,880 like, really owns, the grocery market in Florida. 589 00:36:32,259 --> 00:36:36,019 And, it was around the Parkland shooting, and the 590 00:36:36,019 --> 00:36:39,855 kids from the Parkland shootings were going and doing they were 591 00:36:39,855 --> 00:36:43,695 staging die ins in Publix stores where they would go and lay on 592 00:36:43,695 --> 00:36:47,315 the floor because Publix was, contributing money to the NRA. 593 00:36:47,695 --> 00:36:51,375 As far as I know, they still are. And so we were a a 594 00:36:51,375 --> 00:36:55,109 smaller competitor, but, people started this, and this 595 00:36:55,109 --> 00:36:58,890 was a customer led campaign on Twitter. It was tweet the receipt. 596 00:36:59,109 --> 00:37:02,950 So people would say, I just drove past Publix to go to Walmart or I 597 00:37:02,950 --> 00:37:06,725 went to Whole Foods or what whatever grocery store they went to, 598 00:37:06,725 --> 00:37:10,325 they would tweet their receipt to show Publix this is how much you're missing out 599 00:37:10,325 --> 00:37:13,925 on. And we started going in on Twitter and giving people 600 00:37:14,085 --> 00:37:17,525 we we did, the grocery store did, like, 601 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,840 you could drink beer and wine as you were I can't remember what we called 602 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,640 it. You could drink beer and wine as you were shopping. So we would give 603 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:27,160 people a beer or a kombucha coupon, and we would say thank 604 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,920 you. And we didn't create that campaign at all, but we jumped 605 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,444 in. And I guess some people could call it opportunistic, 606 00:37:34,664 --> 00:37:38,285 but really really, we were just, like, reeling in the value aligned 607 00:37:38,424 --> 00:37:41,885 people in in a moment where they were already kind of self selecting. 608 00:37:42,265 --> 00:37:46,025 And it was a really interesting way to, like, reward 609 00:37:46,025 --> 00:37:49,780 them and and bring them into our kind of value circle. 610 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:54,480 Yeah. That's such a beautiful thing. I like, I love all of 611 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:58,080 that campaign. The the idea that you went in and just 612 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,840 joined the conversation that's already happening. To me, that's actually 613 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,445 the best use of social media for both businesses, 614 00:38:05,665 --> 00:38:09,285 creators. Like, it feels more like a community 615 00:38:09,425 --> 00:38:13,185 when we're all having similar conversations instead of, like, 616 00:38:13,185 --> 00:38:16,945 saying completely separate things, which is why I also don't believe joining in is 617 00:38:16,945 --> 00:38:20,609 opportunistic. But I do think that they this is the way to do it. It's 618 00:38:20,609 --> 00:38:24,290 like listening to the people you're you're in community with 619 00:38:24,290 --> 00:38:28,130 and participating actively, which is beautiful. Love that. Megan, do you 620 00:38:28,130 --> 00:38:31,890 have any examples of brands or creators who you think have a really good 621 00:38:31,890 --> 00:38:35,425 balance of, you know, activism or standing for 622 00:38:35,425 --> 00:38:39,105 something and kind of doing their thing? 3rd I 623 00:38:39,105 --> 00:38:42,725 really love a lot of business owners I know 624 00:38:42,785 --> 00:38:46,580 have a, like, values alignment 625 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:50,260 check-in on a lot of their sales pages where it's like, hey, 626 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,000 this is a place where we support trans people, we believe black 627 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,760 lives matter, you know, like, and I've started including it on my stuff 628 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,065 that I know is gonna see a broader audience, people who might not know me 629 00:39:01,065 --> 00:39:04,905 as well. I have started including it as well, and I think that's just a 630 00:39:04,905 --> 00:39:08,585 really good way to, like, just just make sure that 631 00:39:08,585 --> 00:39:11,565 people know what they're getting into. To me, it's just transparency. 632 00:39:11,945 --> 00:39:15,610 Right? Yeah. Yeah. Right off the bat. I think Becky 633 00:39:15,610 --> 00:39:19,210 Mollenkamp does a good job of that on, threads a few times. 634 00:39:19,210 --> 00:39:22,910 She's posted, like, hey. So a lot of you are new here, 635 00:39:23,210 --> 00:39:26,970 and the comment section is not in agreement. So here's what I believe, 636 00:39:26,970 --> 00:39:29,775 just so you know, and you can, like, click on follow if you if you're 637 00:39:29,775 --> 00:39:33,455 not cool with this. And I think that that is a really great way to 638 00:39:33,455 --> 00:39:37,155 just remind people of of your value system and what you believe in. 639 00:39:38,415 --> 00:39:42,095 Okay. Last question is, for me, election season is very 640 00:39:42,095 --> 00:39:45,050 stressful. I find it, 641 00:39:46,230 --> 00:39:49,910 it feels like I'm I'm tiptoeing a little bit 642 00:39:49,910 --> 00:39:53,350 around, like, what to say, how to say it, what do I 643 00:39:53,350 --> 00:39:57,190 think. And especially because my family believes 644 00:39:57,190 --> 00:40:00,205 it, like, my family is very divided as well. So, like, 645 00:40:00,765 --> 00:40:04,605 extended family. I'm like, we're from Atlanta, Georgia. I'll just give you I'll give you 646 00:40:04,605 --> 00:40:08,305 that. From Georgia. There's it's divided. Right? And so 647 00:40:08,605 --> 00:40:12,020 I feel like I'm walking on eggshells a little bit and it, like, makes my 648 00:40:12,020 --> 00:40:15,800 anxiety go through the roof. So I know for me personally, I end up just 649 00:40:15,940 --> 00:40:19,380 doing a lot more mindless things. Reality TV, reading romance 650 00:40:19,380 --> 00:40:22,920 novels. I need the time to, like, chill out 651 00:40:23,140 --> 00:40:26,795 when emotions are high, and I'm very grateful I have that privilege. 652 00:40:27,095 --> 00:40:30,875 What are some of the things that you recommend to listeners when 653 00:40:31,015 --> 00:40:34,855 we need a break from elections and 654 00:40:34,855 --> 00:40:38,220 everything else that's happening in the world? Josephine, I'll start with you. 655 00:40:38,780 --> 00:40:42,460 Yeah. I am also from the South, so I I 656 00:40:42,460 --> 00:40:46,060 feel you on that anxiety. I'm, like, constantly trying to dial 657 00:40:46,060 --> 00:40:49,500 myself back personally from rage commenting on 658 00:40:49,500 --> 00:40:52,484 family or otherwise, misinformation. 659 00:40:54,145 --> 00:40:57,905 But I definitely think that giving I mean, 660 00:40:57,905 --> 00:41:01,585 again, it goes back to depends on the type of business that we're at 661 00:41:01,585 --> 00:41:04,965 least working with from a client perspective on how we can 662 00:41:05,265 --> 00:41:08,950 help. But or or like like I said, if it's a 663 00:41:08,950 --> 00:41:12,569 mental health, client, we can actually give some therapist 664 00:41:12,630 --> 00:41:16,309 tips on how to chill out or post 665 00:41:16,309 --> 00:41:20,025 some cat videos, post some, like, dog videos, you know, that kind of 666 00:41:20,105 --> 00:41:23,785 here's your moment. We've done that personally too with our brand. We're 667 00:41:23,785 --> 00:41:27,385 very nature based and, like, our branding and 668 00:41:27,385 --> 00:41:30,684 personally, myself and my founder, my cofounder. 669 00:41:30,825 --> 00:41:34,540 So, posting some, like, pear orchard videos and 670 00:41:34,540 --> 00:41:38,060 saying, take a break and get off or, you know, get off social for a 671 00:41:38,060 --> 00:41:41,660 few minutes. Just reminding people to be mindful and 672 00:41:41,660 --> 00:41:45,099 intentional about how they're using social media from 673 00:41:45,099 --> 00:41:48,865 whatever lens we have, is is pretty much and and 674 00:41:48,865 --> 00:41:52,224 or providing humor, is kind of how we approach 675 00:41:52,224 --> 00:41:55,904 that. Yeah. Beautiful. I love that. Thank you, Josephine. Megan, 676 00:41:55,904 --> 00:41:59,365 over to you. What would you like to share with listeners 677 00:41:59,585 --> 00:42:02,565 about taking a break when the stress is too high? 678 00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:06,600 Okay. So I really like completing the stress 679 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,440 cycle. If you have read, I haven't read the book yet, 680 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:14,060 but I've watched their TED talk, the women who wrote Burnout. 681 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:18,385 Yes. Right? So good. Yeah. So I think you 682 00:42:18,385 --> 00:42:22,145 need to complete the stress cycle. Sometimes taking a break 683 00:42:22,145 --> 00:42:25,744 is the answer to that, and sometimes it's not. So, like, 684 00:42:25,744 --> 00:42:29,400 for me, whenever my hands get shaky 685 00:42:29,559 --> 00:42:33,000 and my chest gets hy vee and I'm like, oh, okay. I'm upset. My nervous 686 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,839 system is going. That's when I'm like, what do I 687 00:42:36,839 --> 00:42:40,599 need in order to complete this feeling and be done with it and 688 00:42:40,599 --> 00:42:44,204 then take a break? Sometimes what I need in order to complete the 689 00:42:44,204 --> 00:42:47,724 feeling, there is no resolution. And a lot of times that's what it is for 690 00:42:47,724 --> 00:42:51,425 politics because we only have so much power as individuals. So 691 00:42:51,964 --> 00:42:55,180 what I will do is I have an ice roller, like a beauty roller. I 692 00:42:55,180 --> 00:42:58,780 roll my face in the back of my neck and that really, whoo, 693 00:42:58,780 --> 00:43:02,620 very soothing. Definitely helps complete the stress cycle for my nervous 694 00:43:02,620 --> 00:43:06,460 system. Sometimes that looks like drafting a 695 00:43:06,460 --> 00:43:10,164 post, but not hitting post yet because I don't I try 696 00:43:10,164 --> 00:43:14,005 now to not hit post from that shaky hand space. I can draft 697 00:43:14,005 --> 00:43:16,505 it, but I post it later when my hands are stable. 698 00:43:17,924 --> 00:43:20,885 But I still need to make the post because I need to get my feelings 699 00:43:20,885 --> 00:43:24,650 out in order to complete the stress cycle. What else have 700 00:43:24,650 --> 00:43:28,090 I done sometimes just taking actions? Sometimes I just have a list like, 701 00:43:28,090 --> 00:43:31,850 especially when it comes to causes I'm really passionate about. Like, 702 00:43:31,850 --> 00:43:35,210 sometimes when I need to complete the stress cycle, I just call my representative and 703 00:43:35,210 --> 00:43:38,455 yell at them a little bit. Like, hey, what are you doing? You're not getting 704 00:43:38,455 --> 00:43:41,915 your job. And that helps, you know, so 705 00:43:42,455 --> 00:43:46,135 sometimes you just need to take an action that'll help, your nervous system feel 706 00:43:46,135 --> 00:43:49,890 safe again. Okay. I need this TED talk and book 707 00:43:50,130 --> 00:43:53,569 immediately because you totally blew my mind here because 708 00:43:53,569 --> 00:43:57,269 I can see myself avoiding. I'm avoiding my feelings. 709 00:43:57,329 --> 00:44:01,170 I'm avoiding it. I'm like, I'm not gonna deal with that right now. Let's get 710 00:44:01,170 --> 00:44:04,865 lost somewhere else. There is so much power 711 00:44:04,865 --> 00:44:08,545 in distraction. But the purpose of distraction is to give you 712 00:44:08,545 --> 00:44:12,225 a beat so that you can come back not to like keep 713 00:44:12,225 --> 00:44:16,010 distracting so you don't have to go back. Yeah. And in 714 00:44:16,010 --> 00:44:19,470 in that book, they also talk about, removing the stressors, 715 00:44:19,690 --> 00:44:23,390 like you have the stress, but what is causing the stress are the stressors. 716 00:44:23,930 --> 00:44:27,610 And so that's a really interesting way. And I would encourage people 717 00:44:27,610 --> 00:44:31,095 listening even to just think about what are the stressors that are putting 718 00:44:31,095 --> 00:44:34,855 pressure and giving you the stress. And, as business 719 00:44:34,855 --> 00:44:38,615 owners, there are so many of those, but I have found 720 00:44:38,615 --> 00:44:42,295 that sometimes clients aren't aligned and you need to let that 721 00:44:42,295 --> 00:44:45,869 stressor go. Or sometimes you're trying to create an 722 00:44:45,869 --> 00:44:49,470 offer that is not really aligned with what you're thinking or your audience 723 00:44:49,710 --> 00:44:53,549 you're pushing it and your audience isn't grabbing onto it. So let that go. 724 00:44:53,549 --> 00:44:56,849 You know? Just think about the stressors, both personally and professionally, 725 00:44:57,470 --> 00:45:01,105 that you can let go of in order to move forward and complete the 726 00:45:01,105 --> 00:45:04,705 stress cycle. But, yeah, that book is amazing. Okay. I think it's 727 00:45:04,705 --> 00:45:08,325 called burnout, the secret to unlocking the stress cycle. Emily 728 00:45:08,385 --> 00:45:12,225 Nagasaki and Amelia Nagasaki. I'm gonna put the 729 00:45:12,225 --> 00:45:15,185 link to that in the show notes, and maybe we should do, like, a read 730 00:45:15,185 --> 00:45:18,700 along because I need to read this one. Thank you 731 00:45:18,700 --> 00:45:22,539 both so much for being on the show. This has been absolutely fantastic. Can 732 00:45:22,539 --> 00:45:26,380 you share with listeners what's happening next for you and your business? Megan, we'll 733 00:45:26,380 --> 00:45:29,435 start with you. Absolutely. Okay. So, 734 00:45:30,155 --> 00:45:33,915 you can find me on Instagram at the chaotic entrepreneur. That's my 735 00:45:33,915 --> 00:45:37,595 business coaching account. And something really cool that's coming up in 736 00:45:37,595 --> 00:45:41,435 October is I am starting a group coaching program 737 00:45:41,435 --> 00:45:44,335 specifically around anti capitalist business practices. 738 00:45:45,060 --> 00:45:48,660 It's called making money as a leftist. I'm really excited for it. There's gonna be 739 00:45:48,660 --> 00:45:52,340 10 folks. We're gonna do coaching and some course stuff, and there'll be, 740 00:45:52,340 --> 00:45:56,180 like, Voxer chat hours, and I think it's gonna be really powerful. 741 00:45:56,180 --> 00:45:59,240 So, all of that is you can find that on my Instagram. 742 00:45:59,945 --> 00:46:03,325 Awesome. Thanks, Megan. And, Josephine, what's next for you and your business? 743 00:46:04,345 --> 00:46:07,465 Yeah. Well, you can find us on, 744 00:46:07,865 --> 00:46:11,485 Instagram at pomonecreative and also on LinkedIn 745 00:46:11,705 --> 00:46:15,540 at Pomona Creative. We are in October doing a 746 00:46:15,540 --> 00:46:18,760 social that sells workshop that's for anyone, 747 00:46:19,140 --> 00:46:22,839 particularly marketers, who want to increase 748 00:46:23,060 --> 00:46:26,900 their, strategy knowledge and learn how to tie 749 00:46:26,900 --> 00:46:30,495 their social to ROI and to business goals. 750 00:46:30,955 --> 00:46:34,795 So that's happening October 9th, and, you can find it on our website, 751 00:46:34,795 --> 00:46:38,555 Pomona, pom0nacreative.com. Beautiful. 752 00:46:38,555 --> 00:46:40,975 And I'll have all of the links in the show notes, onlinedre.com/32 753 00:46:43,270 --> 00:46:46,950 5. Thank you dear listener for tuning in to another episode of the Mindful 754 00:46:46,950 --> 00:46:50,550 Marketing podcast. Make sure you stay tuned next week. I have 755 00:46:50,550 --> 00:46:53,770 Jessica Lackey on the show. We're going deep into her 756 00:46:53,910 --> 00:46:57,350 perspective on marketing outside of social media, which I always love this 757 00:46:57,350 --> 00:47:00,815 conversation because there's so many other different ways you can market. 758 00:47:01,115 --> 00:47:04,895 Until then, I will see you in my community space. Thank you so much. Bye.