WEBVTT

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If you want to finally get on your dream podcast or even just

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dip your toe into being a perfect guest on a podcast, today

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I have a special treat for you because we have a new round table episode

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all about how to pitch yourself for the right

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podcasts. I'm your host, Andrea Jones. This is episode number

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324 of the Mindful Marketing Podcast. Before we get into the

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episode though, a word from our sponsor. I've recorded

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on the podcast, it's in the show notes. Okay? Click that link.

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Riverside. All

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right, let's dive into the episode. I'm excited for this because I have

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some amazing guests today who I've talked with and known

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online for a long time. But I think this is one of the first times

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where I got I get to, like, pick your brains about what you do. I'm

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excited. We're gonna start with a round of intros. I will start with Mai-kee first.

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Introduce yourself and your business. Absolutely. And I'm super

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excited to be here. So thank you so much for the invitation. And we're just

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saying in the green room, like, oh my gosh, I actually know of, like, one

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of you for years, but, you know, anyhow, so hi. My name is Mai-kee

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Tsang. I use sheher pronouns. And in a nutshell, I help human first

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business owner to get heard and hired for their work in the world through the

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power of guesting on podcast and having sustainable visibility strategies.

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Beautiful. Thank you, Mai-kee. Brittany, you're

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next. Yes. Hi. My name is Brittany Lynn. I,

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run a PR agency, called Human Connection Agency

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where we work with entrepreneurs and authors,

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with their visibility. So everything from podcasts, which is my favorite,

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my first love. But we also do other PR, and outreach

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strategies such as publications, TV,

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influencer marketing, speaking opportunities, all of that kind of stuff.

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Beautiful. Thank you, Britney. And Angie, you're next. Tell us about

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yourself and your business. Yeah. So I am the founder of the PodWise

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Group, and we are a consulting and training firm

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for business and PR leaders, helping them pitch and

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land interviews for their clients for their own internal

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leaders. So, we've been in the podcast guesting space

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for coming on 8 years now. So it's it's

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been a while. I think we all have been around for a while. Yes.

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Yes. And I'll start by saying too, what I love about podcasting,

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for me specifically, is that I get to show up on someone else's podcast and

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just, like, talk about my experience. And

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it's a really easy way for me to be visible because there's

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very little prep these days because I've been doing it for so long that,

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like, I know my stories. And it feels like an

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easy win for me when I share it with my community as well.

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So starting from the beginning, Mai-kee, this question's for

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you. What do you think makes a podcast

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pitch really stand out? Oh, I

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can go so many different directions, but when I was looking at

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the notes and I thought, okay, this is what I really wanna say.

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What's gonna stand out in the inbox is if you

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send an audio or video pitch.

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And the reason why is because the vast majority of pitches that

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podcasters are ever gonna receive are going to be in the written format. And the

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reason why is because it's the easiest method to repeat and to outsource as

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well. But you're gonna stand out in no time with a video and audio pitch

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because if again, like, rarely anyone does it. And there are

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three reasons why this stands out. 1, I just said it.

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People really do it. 2, there's a lot of information you can gather from

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someone when you just simply hear their voice or if you see them, if

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you see their face as a lot of nonverbal communications, if you're able to see

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someone's face. And thirdly, it's gonna give them a taste of how you

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speak on a podcast because if you're reaching out cold, they

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have no idea who you are. And even if you give them all the links

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in the world, they may not have the time to scour through your

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website or to look at everything on your press page.

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So if you give them a taste in like a minute or less and really

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succinct yourself, then it's gonna really showcase your abilities as a

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speaker. So whether you can share a quick story, you can, you know, really come

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home to a succinct point. They can feel your charisma, all of that good stuff.

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And I've used a couple of tools like SpeakPipe, Loom,

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Bonjoro, and BombBomb to really send these to keep it nice and simple.

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So that's what I think stands out a lot in crowded inbox.

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Yeah. I totally agree. Someone who's like I get probably like 3 or 4

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podcast pitches a day these days, and I only do a

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weekly show. So and some weeks are just me. So I

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literally can't accept all of them. And it becomes clear which

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ones are just copy pasted, mass sent out to everybody. And so

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what I'm hearing you say is personalization is key here.

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So my next question goes to Britney. When we're personalizing

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these pitches, how do we balance, you know, the

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need for efficiency? Meaning, we are probably pitching a few podcasts at the same

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time. And also making sure that we keep it personalized

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and have that high touch approach that makes it stand out. How do we balance

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all of that? Yes. Such a great question and

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something I see often and I think people struggle with because we're all trying to

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be efficient with our time. You know, with podcast pitching,

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sometimes it is a numbers game. Right? So you can't just really pitch 2

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or 3 podcasts and then, you know, if you didn't get any

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responses to it, be like, well, podcast pitching doesn't work. You really have to send

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out a lot of different pitches to kinda start,

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getting some yeses. But it can be hard to personalize

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all of those pitches. You know, if you're sending out 40 in a

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month, it can be hard to make each of those you know, I think when

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people think about personalization, they think I have to start completely from

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scratch like a blank piece of paper every time and rewrite it from

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scratch every time, and that's not really what you need to do. So

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one of my favorite tactics that we use with our clients,

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is we make niche specific podcast

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pitches. So as an example, we have a

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grief expert that we represent. We've represented her for over 3

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years. And, in that topic, you can kinda

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think, okay. Well, like, how many podcasts can you pitch her to? You know, grief

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is a niche type of topic. So, of course, we pitch her to grief

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related podcast, but there's only so many of those types of podcasts.

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So what we do is, you know, we make topics,

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on different niches. So we'll do, like, a grief and money podcast,

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like, how grief affects people's financial

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situation, how they think about money, how they handle money.

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There's parenting podcasts that we pitch. There's,

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podcasts there that are about, like, you know, raising your kids,

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grief and raising your kids. We pitch HR

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related podcast, grief in the workplace. Whenever you're a leader and you have

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an employee who is going through a grief experience, how do you help

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support that employee? And so a lot of that

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we're changing up the talking points for each of those. But, again, as

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you are, you know, someone that's listening to this episode and you're

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wanting to pitch yourself to podcast, you really are going

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to kind of talk about the same things over and over

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again on different podcasts. And you're gonna give different

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examples, and you're gonna have different tips, but your

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overall brand messaging and talking points should

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really stay the same. You shouldn't be changing your tips all

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of the time, because you want to become known as a

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leader in whatever industry that you're in. And so you're

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gonna feel like you're repeating yourself, but you have to remember you're

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speaking to different audiences. There's a different audience that's listening

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to the HR podcast versus the parenting

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podcast. And even if there is overlap, I think probably all of us

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here can relate. At least I hope I'm not calling myself out.

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Sometimes there's a person I start following, an author, someone

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online. I wanna go and listen to every podcast they've ever

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done. Does anybody else do that? Yeah. Or am I just, like, the

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crazy one? Okay. Great. It's not you. So but, like,

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even if we're listening to them on different podcasts, they might have

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some of the same talking points, but, still, the interview is different because you're

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getting you're interacting with a different person. So I

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think having the combination of, like, doing some video audio

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pitches, but then also have you know, making sure you can speak to

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that specific audience that you're pitching, that's the thing that you

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can personalize and tweak, and then the rest of it

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can kinda stay similar. Yeah. And

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I love this whole conversation of personalization because,

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I think it just it works so well with anything we do in marketing. But,

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specifically, with the pitches, like, there's so many different

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stories and anecdotes and ways that you can, you know, still have your same talking

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points, but kinda shape it differently for different audiences and

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different communities, which I love. One of the things you talked about as well,

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Britney, is this idea of, you know, you you are pitching a lot of places

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and not everywhere is you're gonna get accepted, which is why in the past, I've

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hired someone Britney. I've hired Britney, to be like, I don't wanna get

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rejected. So I'm gonna put this I'm gonna give this question to Angie.

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Rejection is part of the process. I don't like it. I I

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hate it. What's your approach to this? Like, how do do we just need thick

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skin? Like, how do we handle the nose? First of all, if I

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had a nickel for every client that hired us because they didn't wanna get the

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rejection emails, That's really what we're in the business of

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is insulating our clients from rejection. So

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it's it's totally normal. I mean, it's something we deal with every single

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day, and I think there's 2 different results to kind of pick

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apart. The first is the no, like getting a flat out no. Thank

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you, and the other is the no response. And

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the no response, there's not a lot that you can do with that.

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Right? You do your follow-up sequence. We have a, you know, a really laid

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out plan for how we do respectful follow-up. You could

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always try to pitch whomever the host is on a different platform.

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For the most part, if we have a a status in our ClickUp called

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crickets. And so if we don't hear back, we just move it to the

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crickets column. And sometimes those will pop and we'll get responses

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months later, but for the most part, there's not a lot to do there.

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And that's why as we talk about personalization and the actual

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pitch, it is so important to get that first pitch

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pretty well nailed so that you can get a response.

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And that's actually what I see our goal as. Like, yes, our clients

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want yeses, but my primary goal is to get some form

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of response back from whoever we are hosting,

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some sign of life that someone read it and felt

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compelled enough to send us an email back. From

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there, we actually have the opportunity to start building a relationship

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unless it was not a great pitch and they were basically like, don't ever email

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us again, which we don't get that often. Right? It happens occasionally, but it's

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fine. Really? Yeah. 2 weeks ago, I pitched

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it was a host that we've never pitched before. I sent a client,

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to him. Like, I had a really nice pitch, totally personalized to his

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show. He wrote back really quickly, I can't

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express to you how appreciative I am that you took the time to understand our

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show. He said, while she is not a good

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fit, I think she would be a better fit for my friend's

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show who hosts and talks to this type of audience.

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So he gave me a referral to someone else to where if it

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had been this templated pitch, he would not have taken the

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time because it wouldn't have felt human. And then

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I told him thank you, and I also said, we

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have another client. Like, I offered up if in the

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off chance a CPA coming on your show would be a good fit, let

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me know. I can work up some angles. And he was like, yeah. Let me

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hear what you got. That would be really interesting. So I only say

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that to illustrate the no when done right is the beginning

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of a relationship. It doesn't always end up in a yes for your

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client, but it can end up in maybe a yes for someone down

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the road or you being able to connect that host with

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someone else. And, like, relationships is what this is all

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about, candidly. Yeah. I a 100% agree. And I have to

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say, having worked with, Britney and Angie, getting pitches

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from your both of your clients from or from your team for

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your clients for my podcast, to me, I'm already like,

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oh, I'm curious because you take the time to know the

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show. You take the time to find the topics that fit in with the

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show. And we have relationships built

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already. So when I see the name in the inbox, I'm like, well, let me

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consider this versus sending my templated, like, here's the

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wait list. Because, like, I don't know if this is a fit or not. Right?

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And so the relationships piece, I I love that. And the

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crickets, like, I'm already imagining putting a little cricket

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emoji in the crick the cricket category.

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And to that point, like, just to reiterate, that's really

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common. It's you are not going to get a response from

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every single person you pitch. You are going to get noes.

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Like, the point of putting yourself out there, you're gonna get

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noes. It's the nature of it, like and like Angie said, you know,

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some people hire people to do it for them so that they don't personally have

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to receive the noes. But, like, I'm telling you, like,

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Angie and I get so many noes in a day, like, you wouldn't even believe.

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And now I'm just like, I don't care. I didn't get to know. My client

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got to know. You know? It's it's just kind of the nature of the game.

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Yeah. It is. And something to add on to the whole rejection no

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thing. I remember back in the day when I did used to pitch for clients,

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because now I have a DIY course and I'd rather, and I teach it instead.

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Right? But back when I used to pitch for clients, I remember really

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looking out for the nose because the nose weren't coming to me

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about my business. I'm pitching on behalf of a client. It didn't hurt as much,

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first of all. And also depending on the kind of

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feedback, if you do get a response that isn't just a plain,

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like flat out, no, thank you, and if there's actually an insight you can gather

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from there. So I actually have a column in my spreadsheet for pitching

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that has that is called reason for no. And sometimes

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I detected a pattern as to why we were getting noes, and that actually

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made me switch our strategy a little bit. So earlier, Britney, when you I'm

255
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talking about niche specific stuff. So my client,

256
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had a topic that can apply to different industries, but instead we honed in on

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the HR industry in particular, and then we got a lot more yeses.

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And so sometimes if you're able to take the sting out of a no, if

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you're not, working with an agency and you're pitching yourself, for example,

260
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you may find there are opportunities to see where you can pivot a little

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bit for your strategy if there's a pattern that's emerging from your nose.

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Yes. Okay. On that same vein, Mai-kee, what are some of

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the common mistakes that you see, as your clients

264
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are, you know, going through the course and they're trying to find podcasts to

265
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pitch and they're just not getting a Lottie ask? What are some of the mistakes

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that you see them, coming across? Well, not so much my clients

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because I've taught them, but Oh, yes. Of course. Now before taking your

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course. Yeah. Before. I mean, the first

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thing that comes to mind, and this is a it's a phrase, a mantra, if

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you will, that I teach them, and it's called service over self

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importance. And where this stemmed from is because as

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someone who's a host of my own podcast, The Quiet Rebels, I have received

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many, many pictures over the last 5 years of hosting it. And the number one

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thing that always makes me tag an email to put in the bad

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pictures label. So, because I do have some and I look I

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look through them for patterns about, you know so I can actually make it a

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teaching point. And it's always when someone is focused

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too much on their accolades and their experience,

279
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how much money they're making, and they've really missed the point as to why

280
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they're reaching out to me in the 1st place. And so when I teach my

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clients service over self importance is really about putting

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yourself in the host shoes and ask

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yourself truly and honestly, if I were to receive

284
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this pitch myself, would I say yes to

285
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this? And if it if it's not a heck yes and

286
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it's been like, maybe, then there is something there that needs to be

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adjusted because it's likely that your balance of self importance and

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service is a bit out of whack. I think it's okay to, you know, mention,

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of course, your experience and things, but that shouldn't overshadow

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your ability to provide value to that person's

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audience. Because ultimately, what you're asking for, you're asking someone to put

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you in front of their community that they've built over goodness

293
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knows how long, weeks, months, years even. And so

294
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we need to really acknowledge that it's a true privilege to be on someone else's

295
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podcast like today, for example, case in point. And so it's really important

296
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to show up knowing how you can provide value. But if you

297
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lead with all of your all of the things that make you, you know,

298
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credible and how you're a 6, 7, 8 figure earner,

299
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if that shadows it, then it's gonna often be a no. And

300
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there is one thing there's one story that comes to mind for this.

301
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Someone only had a self importance

302
00:18:43.730 --> 00:18:47.030
based pitch. And they were so presumptuous

303
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that I was going to give them a spot that I said, when you're ready

304
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this is the first outreach, by the way. Completely cold. They said,

305
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when you're ready, here's the link to my calendar

306
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so we can record the interview.

307
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Exactly. People are unhinged. People are

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unhinged. I mean, I mean, kudos for the kudos for the

309
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confidence, but no. And never. And so, earlier when, we

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were speaking about it being a relationship based thing, because it really

311
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is, I think Angie was talking about this. And so the biggest

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mistake is burning the bridge before you've even had a chance to build it

313
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by having pictures that are completely about self

314
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importance. That is how you burn a bridge. That is how a relationship never

315
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gets to be built. So just don't do that.

316
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Yeah. Oh my gosh. I'm, like, reeling from this. Sending their

317
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own calendar link? Yeah. Like, in the first conference I can

318
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understand Yep. If there was some back and forth and you're trying to get schedules

319
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and then Right. I have to have this email in my badge in my badge

320
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pitch is labeled in my Gmail. I would like it. For us. I

321
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love that you have I also have a folder that's called. Thanks.

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It's like, here's what I have to do. We just launched our newsletter.

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We revamped it. It's called the flop files. And each week, I take a

324
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bad pitch from myself or someone. Feel free to

325
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send them to me. I Obsessed. Anonymize it so they

326
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don't know who the show is, who the client is. And I say, like,

327
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it's great because we're not making fun of it because I do candidly

328
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think coming from traditional PR into podcast pitching,

329
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they're just really different beasts. But I identify, like, what

330
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needs to be changed, and then I rewrite it. And it's been so

331
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fun. It's like my favorite thing to do every week. Yes. That sounds

332
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so fun. And just to add on to that, I I kinda forgot that I

333
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have this, like, mini series. I've only done 3 episodes because it was kind of

334
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like a seasonal thing. But I ran a series called pictures that

335
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piss off podcasters. And what I did was

336
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I got together with my podcaster friends. So say if I have one particular

337
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host, they bring to the forefront 2 to 3 pictures. And I do ask them

338
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to anonymize Whether they choose to or not is up to them. But,

339
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so we are there. It's more from an educational perspective just same as you, Angie,

340
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with your flop files. I love that name. And basically, what we

341
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did is that we talked about why this pitch didn't land because sometimes it's

342
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more of a constructive thing. It's not purely about make it wasn't

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about making fun of it at all. Instead, it was like, look, this is why

344
00:21:20.885 --> 00:21:24.165
it didn't land. It may feel a little bit different when you're the one writing

345
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it. But again, it's putting yourself in the host shoes by hearing from the host

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themselves. So I have 3 episodes on that. It's, like, free on my website if

347
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anyone wants to check that out. And, yeah, we just really, like, break

348
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down critique, show very real pictures that we've received as podcasters,

349
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and it looked really, really fun to run that series. I actually might bring it

350
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back now that we're talking about it. Inspiration

351
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happening here. You heard it first. You heard it first. Okay. So

352
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next question is all about pitching strategies because

353
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one of the things I noticed with working with you, Britney, which I it's been,

354
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like, what, 4 years since we 3. I think Yeah. 3 or

355
00:22:00.180 --> 00:22:03.940
4. Yeah. It's a bit. But one of the things that really stood out to

356
00:22:03.940 --> 00:22:07.700
me was how you customize the pitches to, like, what was

357
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happening in the world at large, which

358
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feels so basic now that I say it, but I've never would have

359
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thought to do that strategy before. So when you're crafting

360
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these, how do you how do you know when it's the best time to pitch

361
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a certain topic to a certain podcast? And then to,

362
00:22:25.420 --> 00:22:28.860
like, follow-up on that, like, what's your process in in building this,

363
00:22:29.260 --> 00:22:33.020
pitching strategy? Yeah. So we kinda do our agency

364
00:22:33.020 --> 00:22:36.380
kinda does, like, a 2 pronged strategy of, you

365
00:22:36.380 --> 00:22:40.060
know, we can make really any of our topics that we're pitching

366
00:22:40.060 --> 00:22:42.775
our clients evergreen where it's relevant

367
00:22:43.555 --> 00:22:46.995
kinda any time of year, any month, you know,

368
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because some podcasters and this, like, differentiates between

369
00:22:50.515 --> 00:22:53.395
podcasts. And so if you're new to this industry and you're trying to figure it

370
00:22:53.395 --> 00:22:57.059
out, some podcasters, you'll record an episode, the episode comes out in a

371
00:22:57.059 --> 00:23:00.419
couple weeks. Sometimes you'll record an episode, it comes out in 3

372
00:23:00.419 --> 00:23:04.179
months. Sometimes you record an episode, it comes out in 9 months. Sometimes you're

373
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like, it comes out the next day. You know, there's really it's a

374
00:23:07.945 --> 00:23:11.545
mixed bag. And so, you know, typically, I would

375
00:23:11.545 --> 00:23:14.605
say, in general, bigger podcasts

376
00:23:15.065 --> 00:23:18.585
probably plan out a little bit further in

377
00:23:18.585 --> 00:23:21.919
advance. That's kind of just a general

378
00:23:21.980 --> 00:23:25.820
thing. But what we do is, you know, we

379
00:23:25.820 --> 00:23:29.279
have the kind of the evergreen topics that can be relevant anytime,

380
00:23:29.659 --> 00:23:33.340
any place. But then there's other

381
00:23:33.340 --> 00:23:36.159
times where there's specific times of the year

382
00:23:36.725 --> 00:23:40.325
that might be, a really big time of year for

383
00:23:40.325 --> 00:23:43.865
my particular client or for that particular podcast.

384
00:23:44.165 --> 00:23:47.385
So as examples, you know, health and wellness

385
00:23:47.605 --> 00:23:51.300
podcast. If you're those are big, you know, health people are looking at health

386
00:23:51.300 --> 00:23:55.140
and wellness a lot, New Year's resolution time, beginning of the

387
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year. They're starting new fitness journeys or they're trying to eat

388
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healthier or they're exercising more. And so they're

389
00:24:02.740 --> 00:24:06.475
likely going to want people that can talk about those topics

390
00:24:06.475 --> 00:24:10.235
at that time of year. You know, some people, if you have, you

391
00:24:10.235 --> 00:24:12.975
know, parenting or kids podcasts,

392
00:24:14.315 --> 00:24:17.835
back to school time is a big time. So to

393
00:24:17.835 --> 00:24:21.570
kinda not pitch too late for those

394
00:24:21.570 --> 00:24:25.090
types of opportunities, I'll do 3 to 4 months

395
00:24:25.090 --> 00:24:28.850
out of those. I feel like that gives a bit of time to be able

396
00:24:28.850 --> 00:24:32.610
to record the episode and then for them to be able to release the

397
00:24:32.610 --> 00:24:35.845
episode. But also, we look at what our clients,

398
00:24:36.465 --> 00:24:40.225
their time of their important time of years. So I have a sleep

399
00:24:40.225 --> 00:24:43.825
client who, May is Better Sleep

400
00:24:43.825 --> 00:24:47.419
Month. And so a lot of times, we'll want and they they're they

401
00:24:47.419 --> 00:24:50.539
own better sleep month, and they have a lot of media that go out during

402
00:24:50.539 --> 00:24:54.299
the month of May. And so we'll start doing pitches for

403
00:24:54.299 --> 00:24:57.980
those, for podcasts, you know, around the beginning of the year

404
00:24:57.980 --> 00:25:01.755
to hopefully have those episodes air out. I will

405
00:25:01.755 --> 00:25:05.375
say podcasts in general are pretty good

406
00:25:05.515 --> 00:25:09.355
about at least authors that have books coming

407
00:25:09.355 --> 00:25:12.895
out. They kind of podcasters have an understanding

408
00:25:13.355 --> 00:25:16.880
of they know it'll be important to have that episode come

409
00:25:16.880 --> 00:25:20.560
out around the publish date. Now you can't always get

410
00:25:20.560 --> 00:25:24.020
exactly what you want, so you can always ask for it, but

411
00:25:24.560 --> 00:25:28.095
don't be demanding. You know, take what you can get.

412
00:25:28.815 --> 00:25:32.414
It's not gonna be the end of the world if the episode comes out 3

413
00:25:32.414 --> 00:25:36.255
weeks after your publish date. In all honesty, it helps better

414
00:25:36.255 --> 00:25:39.934
if you have some that kinda trickle out instead of all of them coming

415
00:25:39.934 --> 00:25:43.500
out in the same week. So, yeah, just kind of thinking

416
00:25:43.500 --> 00:25:47.340
of now what you can pitch. And, again, traditional media,

417
00:25:47.340 --> 00:25:51.020
you can kinda pitch a little bit closer to the date podcast, again, just

418
00:25:51.020 --> 00:25:54.620
because of the nature. Like you said, Andrea, most people have 1

419
00:25:54.620 --> 00:25:58.054
episode a week. That's 4 podcast episodes a month. That's

420
00:25:58.835 --> 00:26:02.595
52 in a year if they take no breaks. And if

421
00:26:02.595 --> 00:26:05.815
they take guests for every single one of those episodes, which is

422
00:26:06.034 --> 00:26:09.875
often not the case. So you just have to plan a little

423
00:26:09.875 --> 00:26:13.659
bit ahead. So kinda think 3, 4 months out, you know, plan the

424
00:26:13.659 --> 00:26:17.179
next quarter and start pitching, on that behalf. And

425
00:26:17.179 --> 00:26:20.940
then, in terms of follow-up, I am curious what

426
00:26:20.940 --> 00:26:23.899
everybody else has to say too because we have our own everybody has their own

427
00:26:23.899 --> 00:26:27.555
strategies. You know? And here's the thing too. Like, I love, like,

428
00:26:27.555 --> 00:26:31.235
learning from other people in the industry. Like, this is so I

429
00:26:31.235 --> 00:26:34.775
love hearing from other people's strategies and what works for them. So,

430
00:26:36.035 --> 00:26:39.830
it's all just, like, not competition at all. Like, I I love learning

431
00:26:39.830 --> 00:26:43.190
from everyone. So if you do this as well, like, I hope you're taking notes

432
00:26:43.190 --> 00:26:46.790
too. Follow-up, I for

433
00:26:46.790 --> 00:26:50.470
podcasts, I do anywhere from, like, 10 to

434
00:26:50.470 --> 00:26:53.755
14 days after I sent the initial pitch

435
00:26:54.215 --> 00:26:58.055
if I haven't heard back. Obviously, if they have said an outright

436
00:26:58.055 --> 00:27:01.035
no, I'm not following up with them because they said no.

437
00:27:02.055 --> 00:27:05.575
But I like to give podcasters a little bit more time because,

438
00:27:05.575 --> 00:27:08.950
again, it's a big ask

439
00:27:09.250 --> 00:27:13.009
to you know, a podcaster one has a lot of things going

440
00:27:13.009 --> 00:27:16.610
on. A lot of times, the podcast that you're pitching, they don't do their

441
00:27:16.610 --> 00:27:20.210
podcast full time. It's like they're using their podcast as a marketing

442
00:27:20.210 --> 00:27:24.045
tool. And so they need some time to be

443
00:27:24.045 --> 00:27:27.804
able to think about, do I have space for this

444
00:27:27.804 --> 00:27:31.565
person? Do I want this person? Does this fit into my content calendar that

445
00:27:31.565 --> 00:27:35.165
I already have? I will say I

446
00:27:35.165 --> 00:27:39.010
have never had somebody say, oh my

447
00:27:39.010 --> 00:27:42.470
god. I can't believe you followed up, you horrible

448
00:27:42.530 --> 00:27:46.050
person. I hate you. Don't ever talk to me again. I've only had

449
00:27:46.050 --> 00:27:49.665
people say, thank you so much for following up because you might not

450
00:27:49.665 --> 00:27:53.265
hear from someone for a 1000000 different reasons, and one of those

451
00:27:53.265 --> 00:27:56.625
reasons is that they hate your pitch and think you're stupid. You know? Like, that's

452
00:27:56.625 --> 00:28:00.145
not most of the time the reason why. It's they're on

453
00:28:00.145 --> 00:28:03.840
vacation. They had a big launch. They're busy in business. Their

454
00:28:03.840 --> 00:28:07.520
kids got sick. They got sick. You know? I don't know. There's a million reasons

455
00:28:07.520 --> 00:28:10.880
why they didn't respond. So please, please

456
00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:14.720
follow-up because that's where a lot of our bookings at least come from.

457
00:28:14.720 --> 00:28:18.485
I'd love to hear it from everyone else on the panel if that's true for

458
00:28:18.485 --> 00:28:22.325
them too. Yes. Let's let's pass this question along. I'll go to you, Angie,

459
00:28:22.325 --> 00:28:26.005
first. Tell us about your process and especially

460
00:28:26.005 --> 00:28:29.625
the follow ups. Yeah. We do similar. Our first follow-up

461
00:28:29.684 --> 00:28:33.510
goes out anywhere between a week to 2 weeks

462
00:28:33.510 --> 00:28:37.190
after the initial pitch. Typically, we have an automation and ClickUp that

463
00:28:37.190 --> 00:28:41.030
sets it for 2 weeks being the due date. And then if we

464
00:28:41.030 --> 00:28:44.835
don't hear back from that follow-up, we send one last

465
00:28:44.835 --> 00:28:48.355
follow-up, and that typically is another 2 weeks later. We

466
00:28:48.355 --> 00:28:51.815
may try to offer up a different topic.

467
00:28:52.115 --> 00:28:55.955
Sometimes on that third outreach, we keep them very, very short. So

468
00:28:55.955 --> 00:28:59.500
it's we don't repitch. We just actually respond to the

469
00:28:59.500 --> 00:29:03.340
original pitch. Yeah. If we have looked at their show

470
00:29:03.340 --> 00:29:07.020
and we see sort of an opportunity that's more timely in nature, we

471
00:29:07.020 --> 00:29:10.400
will sometimes offer up a different topic, but it's pretty standard.

472
00:29:11.355 --> 00:29:14.795
And I wanna thank you, Britney, for so you can tell that you came from

473
00:29:14.795 --> 00:29:18.395
PR, because of the timeliness and how you're

474
00:29:18.395 --> 00:29:22.235
looking at the calendar. Mhmm. And I think that's something we don't see that

475
00:29:22.235 --> 00:29:26.070
a lot in podcast, which is a benefit, right, during election season. We're not

476
00:29:26.149 --> 00:29:29.830
fighting the loud news media. But I think

477
00:29:29.830 --> 00:29:32.870
it's something that we can all take to heart of, okay. Is there a way

478
00:29:32.870 --> 00:29:36.250
that I can put a more timely slash urgent

479
00:29:36.389 --> 00:29:39.975
spin on this topic to elicit some sort of

480
00:29:39.975 --> 00:29:43.195
response. So I think that's really good for the listeners to kinda keep in mind.

481
00:29:43.735 --> 00:29:47.575
Yeah. I think to that point, you know, we as a way

482
00:29:47.575 --> 00:29:50.075
that we used it for a podcast pitch,

483
00:29:52.139 --> 00:29:55.039
a how I don't it was earlier this year, I think, that,

484
00:29:56.299 --> 00:29:58.879
Taylor Swift had, like, put together a

485
00:29:59.740 --> 00:30:03.340
grief, like, playlist or something that, like, kinda made

486
00:30:03.340 --> 00:30:07.045
news of her songs. And it was, like, the 5 stages of grief,

487
00:30:07.045 --> 00:30:10.345
and she, like, put her songs, like, in each of the 5 stages.

488
00:30:11.045 --> 00:30:14.805
Well, my client, has some myths about the 5

489
00:30:14.805 --> 00:30:18.540
stages of grief. So we use that

490
00:30:18.540 --> 00:30:22.300
as a talking point because Taylor Swift is very popular

491
00:30:22.300 --> 00:30:26.060
to talk about. A lot of people talk about her. My

492
00:30:26.060 --> 00:30:29.900
client was talking about grief. This was relevant to grief. And my client was

493
00:30:29.900 --> 00:30:33.725
saying, you know, something against you know, something a little

494
00:30:33.725 --> 00:30:37.325
bit divisive against what was being stated by the media. So not

495
00:30:37.325 --> 00:30:41.085
everybody was, saying the same thing as my client,

496
00:30:41.085 --> 00:30:44.685
which can be helpful in getting somebody to say yes to you.

497
00:30:44.685 --> 00:30:48.500
Because a lot of times, all of us have received pitches, and it's

498
00:30:48.500 --> 00:30:51.780
like you see the same talking points over and over and over again. It's like,

499
00:30:51.780 --> 00:30:55.460
okay. Cool. Like, Joe Schmo and everybody can talk about this topic.

500
00:30:55.460 --> 00:30:59.220
Like, give me something different. So that's just an example of, like,

501
00:30:59.220 --> 00:31:02.995
we used a hook that's happening in media. So, like,

502
00:31:03.055 --> 00:31:06.675
you know, looking at what's going on in media, what people are talking about.

503
00:31:06.815 --> 00:31:10.655
Like you said, upcoming is the election year. People are

504
00:31:10.655 --> 00:31:14.490
talking about that. Some people are gonna wanna put that into their pitches and

505
00:31:14.490 --> 00:31:17.690
have something relevant, and some people aren't. You know, you don't have to go with

506
00:31:17.690 --> 00:31:21.450
every topic that's being talked about. But if you can, if

507
00:31:21.450 --> 00:31:24.810
it's an easy connection, that makes it

508
00:31:24.810 --> 00:31:28.634
so you are relevant to talk to right now

509
00:31:28.695 --> 00:31:32.534
versus I'm gonna put this person on the back burner and wait

510
00:31:32.534 --> 00:31:35.894
to interview them, and then they never interview you. Yeah. I

511
00:31:35.894 --> 00:31:39.495
100% agree with that. And and that's the thing that I'm finding with my

512
00:31:39.495 --> 00:31:42.850
show is that there are so many interesting pitches that I get where I'm like,

513
00:31:42.850 --> 00:31:46.310
Oh, okay. I am gonna do this, but it's gonna have to wait because there's

514
00:31:46.610 --> 00:31:50.450
topical things that I have to talk about. Like our next episode after this

515
00:31:50.450 --> 00:31:54.255
is marketing during an election year. And it's like, well, I talk about

516
00:31:54.255 --> 00:31:57.695
that now. I can't talk about that, you know, in February. So it doesn't make

517
00:31:57.695 --> 00:32:01.455
any sense. Right? So Yeah. Yeah. I love this. Okay. Mai-kee, from you,

518
00:32:01.855 --> 00:32:05.295
what do you tell your students about following up? Like, what's the process

519
00:32:05.295 --> 00:32:08.779
there? So it's very similar to what's already been shared. So for

520
00:32:08.779 --> 00:32:12.460
me, in my pitch spreadsheet so there's a there's like a

521
00:32:12.460 --> 00:32:16.220
tracker so you can keep track of everything. I always encourage them to put

522
00:32:16.220 --> 00:32:20.059
the precise date that they have reached out to just so that they know how

523
00:32:20.059 --> 00:32:23.674
long, you know, just can done it kinda do the math, with,

524
00:32:23.835 --> 00:32:27.515
you know, when it's time to follow-up. So I always say between 7 to 10

525
00:32:27.515 --> 00:32:31.355
days. I personally choose anywhere between 3 to 5 follow

526
00:32:31.355 --> 00:32:34.889
ups. But just like, I think Angie said, just keep it short and sweet.

527
00:32:34.889 --> 00:32:38.490
Reply to the actual thread that you already started in your email

528
00:32:38.490 --> 00:32:42.010
because we're more likely to look at emails that have a little number next to

529
00:32:42.010 --> 00:32:44.649
them. Like, it's like, oh, wait. Hang on. There's been 3 emails. Why have I

530
00:32:44.649 --> 00:32:48.409
not opened this yet? So, that that's something that comes to

531
00:32:48.409 --> 00:32:52.005
mind for sure. And something that I also wanna mention

532
00:32:52.705 --> 00:32:56.385
is that when someone responds back to you with a not right

533
00:32:56.385 --> 00:33:00.225
now, I follow-up and ask them when would be the

534
00:33:00.225 --> 00:33:03.250
right time. And so, oh, thank you so much. I really appreciate that this may

535
00:33:03.250 --> 00:33:07.030
not be the right season. Do you have a guesstimate time when it would be

536
00:33:07.090 --> 00:33:10.870
better for me to reach out? 3 months, 6 months? So I'm already kind of

537
00:33:11.330 --> 00:33:14.850
being a bit proactive for when to follow-up in the future. So case in

538
00:33:14.850 --> 00:33:18.694
point, there was a video pitch that I I remember sending, and it

539
00:33:18.694 --> 00:33:22.388
took me a year to get a yes because time just was not

540
00:33:22.388 --> 00:33:26.082
on my side and the, the seasons. But the thing is, what

541
00:33:26.082 --> 00:33:29.775
I kept doing was I stayed top of mind with both the team

542
00:33:29.775 --> 00:33:33.340
member of that particular podcaster. Because that podcaster was pretty

543
00:33:33.340 --> 00:33:37.180
big. So, their team handled more of the of

544
00:33:37.180 --> 00:33:40.700
the emails. Right? Any of the pictures. So I even wound

545
00:33:40.700 --> 00:33:44.380
up using the team member's name in my in my

546
00:33:44.380 --> 00:33:48.115
repitch, if you will. So they're like, hey. I was like,

547
00:33:48.115 --> 00:33:51.635
hey, host name. I was like, hey, team member name. I'm the one who

548
00:33:51.635 --> 00:33:55.315
actually answers. It's it's great. So stay top of mind as well, and you'd be

549
00:33:55.315 --> 00:33:58.355
surprised that what comes up. So just be proactive about it. That if you get

550
00:33:58.355 --> 00:34:02.100
a knot right now, take that as an opportunity to ask when would be the

551
00:34:02.100 --> 00:34:05.940
right time. Because you can reiterate your your passion, your

552
00:34:05.940 --> 00:34:09.780
enthusiasm for wanting to share value and everything without re pitching

553
00:34:09.780 --> 00:34:13.540
the entire thing. But, that would be a great opportunity for you to kinda,

554
00:34:13.540 --> 00:34:16.795
like, wedge yourself in for a little later if time is not on your side

555
00:34:16.795 --> 00:34:20.395
for your first point of contact. Yeah. The running thread I'm hearing in all of

556
00:34:20.395 --> 00:34:23.995
this is be a freaking human. Like Yeah. There's humans living their

557
00:34:23.995 --> 00:34:27.675
lives over here, and we can also be humans living our lives and also switching

558
00:34:27.675 --> 00:34:30.929
the podcast and not being a robot, which I love. And I think there's a

559
00:34:30.929 --> 00:34:33.750
there's a value in that for sure. There is.

560
00:34:34.610 --> 00:34:38.449
Quick thing. Oh, so you know how earlier we're talking about rejection? Mhmm.

561
00:34:38.449 --> 00:34:41.670
I I love that it's already been said in this conversation that

562
00:34:42.234 --> 00:34:46.074
there are so many other things, so many reasons why someone would

563
00:34:46.074 --> 00:34:49.835
not respond to you. And that's to me helped me not take it personally

564
00:34:49.835 --> 00:34:53.355
because I'm like, I am not the center of anyone else's universe. And I need

565
00:34:53.355 --> 00:34:57.190
to acknowledge that we all need to acknowledge that. You know, they have other things

566
00:34:57.190 --> 00:35:00.570
to do, other priorities. So if you are particularly

567
00:35:01.190 --> 00:35:04.970
sensitive to rejection like myself, and many of us here, it seems,

568
00:35:06.070 --> 00:35:09.590
just remember that they have other things going on, and just do your

569
00:35:09.590 --> 00:35:12.695
part. That's all you can do. You can send your 1st pitch. You can do

570
00:35:12.695 --> 00:35:16.535
your follow ups between 7 to 10 days. And, if they

571
00:35:16.535 --> 00:35:20.375
still don't respond, then, you know, you can either loop back to them again if

572
00:35:20.375 --> 00:35:23.575
you want or, as I think Angie said, put in the crickets column. And who

573
00:35:23.575 --> 00:35:27.329
knows? There might be someone who comes back one day. Yeah. I feel like I

574
00:35:27.329 --> 00:35:31.009
need t shirts printed for people. I am not the center of the universe. Here.

575
00:35:31.009 --> 00:35:34.309
Here's your t shirt. It's like, sometimes it does feel that way.

576
00:35:34.769 --> 00:35:38.210
Okay. Angie, this question. I wanna ask about

577
00:35:38.210 --> 00:35:41.569
success. So to me, sometimes success is, yay. I got

578
00:35:41.569 --> 00:35:45.225
the, you know, I got the spot. But are there

579
00:35:45.225 --> 00:35:48.825
any other measures of success as we're kinda diving into

580
00:35:48.825 --> 00:35:52.505
pitching podcast? What can we look forward to be like, yes, I am doing the

581
00:35:52.505 --> 00:35:56.190
right things? Yeah. I think getting

582
00:35:56.190 --> 00:36:00.030
on the show can be a measure of success, but it does depend

583
00:36:00.030 --> 00:36:03.710
on what the business goal is. All of us

584
00:36:03.710 --> 00:36:07.470
here advocate for being very strategic and making sure

585
00:36:07.470 --> 00:36:11.195
that you are getting in front of audiences that are most likely

586
00:36:11.655 --> 00:36:14.875
to take action on what you want them to take action

587
00:36:15.095 --> 00:36:18.855
on. So getting the yes is the first

588
00:36:18.855 --> 00:36:22.615
step. Well, pitching strategically is the first step, then you get

589
00:36:22.615 --> 00:36:26.380
the yes. Then you really have to decide what is the action

590
00:36:26.380 --> 00:36:29.980
that I want the audience to take, and it goes back to

591
00:36:29.980 --> 00:36:33.660
business goals. So if awareness is the goal, then,

592
00:36:33.660 --> 00:36:37.340
yeah, getting on some of the bigger shows or a larger

593
00:36:37.340 --> 00:36:40.775
number of shows can kind of check that box. Right?

594
00:36:41.155 --> 00:36:44.994
But if your goal is to sell more books or to book

595
00:36:44.994 --> 00:36:48.675
discovery calls or it really wouldn't be to grow your

596
00:36:48.675 --> 00:36:52.375
LinkedIn following, but that could be a call to action that leads into

597
00:36:52.595 --> 00:36:55.590
something else. If it's to grow your podcast,

598
00:36:56.130 --> 00:36:59.650
then you need to keep that top of mind, and all of those are

599
00:36:59.650 --> 00:37:03.270
measurable, and we measure all of those. So

600
00:37:03.650 --> 00:37:07.090
I have seen a shift in the time that I've been doing this. I feel

601
00:37:07.090 --> 00:37:10.805
like guesting was an incredible list builder back

602
00:37:10.805 --> 00:37:14.165
in the day for email list growth. It still

603
00:37:14.165 --> 00:37:17.685
happens, but not at all at the volume that it used

604
00:37:17.685 --> 00:37:21.365
to. And so when we have new clients or if we're working with

605
00:37:21.365 --> 00:37:25.090
PR firms that are pitching their clients, we need to be very

606
00:37:25.090 --> 00:37:28.390
clear that if the success of your business

607
00:37:28.930 --> 00:37:32.390
is dependent on your email list growing in size,

608
00:37:32.930 --> 00:37:36.734
guesting is probably not the most immediate path

609
00:37:36.734 --> 00:37:40.095
to success. Running ads would probably be your

610
00:37:40.095 --> 00:37:43.394
best bet. But those other more human

611
00:37:43.454 --> 00:37:47.295
centered ways of interaction and taking action are

612
00:37:47.295 --> 00:37:50.970
totally best served from podcast guest because they hear you.

613
00:37:50.970 --> 00:37:54.490
They get to know you. They like you. And then if you have one call

614
00:37:54.490 --> 00:37:58.270
to action that's like, go sign up for my flop files or

615
00:37:58.570 --> 00:38:02.265
go connect with me on LinkedIn and tell me what you thought, they feel

616
00:38:02.265 --> 00:38:06.025
that human connection and are more compelled to do it. Yeah. And I'll say

617
00:38:06.025 --> 00:38:09.645
anecdotally for myself, my best clients

618
00:38:09.704 --> 00:38:13.545
and students come from podcasts that I've been guests on. Like

619
00:38:13.625 --> 00:38:17.190
and they'll tell me I still remember, I was on

620
00:38:17.190 --> 00:38:20.570
Claire Powell's podcast in what 2021?

621
00:38:22.710 --> 00:38:26.550
2020? And one of my members who's still in my membership has

622
00:38:26.550 --> 00:38:30.245
like gone to all my live events. She told me that she heard me on

623
00:38:30.245 --> 00:38:33.685
that podcast. It was like, this is my vibe. And then, like, came into my

624
00:38:33.685 --> 00:38:37.205
wall. And, like, to me, that's the beautiful thing about

625
00:38:37.205 --> 00:38:41.045
podcast guesting because podcasting already is so intimate. Like, you're literally in someone's

626
00:38:41.045 --> 00:38:44.869
head. And then being on someone else's podcast is

627
00:38:44.869 --> 00:38:48.410
basically that host is vouching for you and

628
00:38:48.549 --> 00:38:52.390
allowing you. It's like a huge honor to be on the show and

629
00:38:52.390 --> 00:38:55.690
share your perspective. And so, to me,

630
00:38:56.724 --> 00:39:00.484
the wins are, yes, getting more awareness, but in a way that is

631
00:39:00.484 --> 00:39:04.005
more intimate than a lot of the other marketing florations, which I love. But it

632
00:39:04.005 --> 00:39:07.845
is a long game. It's a long game for sure. For sure. Yeah. And

633
00:39:07.845 --> 00:39:11.500
to give you some of that credit, you know, people hire

634
00:39:11.500 --> 00:39:14.960
people like me and Angie to, you know, do it on their behalf

635
00:39:15.020 --> 00:39:18.540
sometimes or if you're gonna DIY. So

636
00:39:18.540 --> 00:39:22.380
getting the interview is great, but then the next part

637
00:39:22.380 --> 00:39:26.000
is actually the biggest part is doing a good interview.

638
00:39:26.635 --> 00:39:29.695
And so, Andrea, to, like, you know, brag on you,

639
00:39:30.395 --> 00:39:33.995
that person resonated with you because you were prepared for

640
00:39:33.995 --> 00:39:37.755
that interview. You interviewed well. You brought up good talking

641
00:39:37.755 --> 00:39:41.440
points. You know, it's not just about

642
00:39:41.440 --> 00:39:45.120
getting on the interview and, oh, then it's

643
00:39:45.120 --> 00:39:48.960
just just easy. Like, then the the email list

644
00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:52.805
floods in and the Instagram follows come. It's like, you have to do

645
00:39:53.025 --> 00:39:56.865
a good job on the interview, and so you have to be prepared for those

646
00:39:56.865 --> 00:40:00.645
interviews. And I think that's a part that sometimes

647
00:40:00.704 --> 00:40:04.385
people forget about. It's like, that's really what you really where you

648
00:40:04.385 --> 00:40:07.365
gotta succeed is, like, do a good interview

649
00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:12.520
to get people to, you know, wanna sign up for your services or

650
00:40:12.520 --> 00:40:16.200
discovery call or buy your book or whatever. And so a lot of

651
00:40:16.200 --> 00:40:19.720
times for us in the, you know, done for you services way where we're

652
00:40:19.720 --> 00:40:23.185
representing clients, it's like I can do

653
00:40:23.185 --> 00:40:27.025
everything up until you have to do the interview. I have to

654
00:40:27.025 --> 00:40:30.645
have a client that can deliver good talking points.

655
00:40:30.704 --> 00:40:33.345
I can teach them as much as I can, but at the end of the

656
00:40:33.345 --> 00:40:36.964
day, I can't do the interview on their behalf. They have to do that.

657
00:40:37.100 --> 00:40:40.780
That's on them. So I think that that's something to keep in mind

658
00:40:40.780 --> 00:40:44.460
too of just, like, practicing your talking points, being a

659
00:40:44.460 --> 00:40:48.000
good interviewee, you know, all of that kind of stuff.

660
00:40:48.540 --> 00:40:52.175
Yeah. I think that that's like a whole I we may need, like, a part

661
00:40:52.175 --> 00:40:55.695
2 to this episode. We need a part 2 panel. I I I have things

662
00:40:55.695 --> 00:40:59.535
to say. The pitch. Yeah. You got the pitch. Now what? Yeah.

663
00:40:59.535 --> 00:41:02.895
Yeah. Okay. Roundtable part 2, we'll schedule it in for the New Year.

664
00:41:03.215 --> 00:41:06.450
Okay. Last I have 2 more questions for all of you.

665
00:41:07.070 --> 00:41:10.910
The first question is, what's one thing you wish you had known

666
00:41:10.910 --> 00:41:14.670
when you started? Meike, I wanna start with you. What's one thing you

667
00:41:14.670 --> 00:41:16.610
wish you had known when you started pitching?

668
00:41:19.015 --> 00:41:21.655
There could have been so many things, but the one that I chose to land

669
00:41:21.655 --> 00:41:25.095
with is this one. You don't need to be

670
00:41:25.095 --> 00:41:28.455
on as many podcasts as you think you

671
00:41:28.455 --> 00:41:32.055
do. I'm seeing some really deep nods there,

672
00:41:32.055 --> 00:41:35.860
especially on Britney. The reason why is

673
00:41:35.860 --> 00:41:39.320
because every podcast you're ever going to be on

674
00:41:39.780 --> 00:41:43.620
is pretty much gonna live on the Internet forever. They

675
00:41:43.620 --> 00:41:46.840
are gonna be brilliant for backlinking to your website.

676
00:41:47.795 --> 00:41:51.315
And once you get a good momentum of, you know,

677
00:41:51.315 --> 00:41:55.155
getting some podcast appearances under your belt, you also might just find

678
00:41:55.155 --> 00:41:58.535
that you're gonna get invitations because now you've built up a reputation.

679
00:41:58.835 --> 00:42:02.435
You are known for something, as Angie was saying earlier. Like, be known for

680
00:42:02.435 --> 00:42:06.170
something. And, it's gonna significantly reduce your

681
00:42:06.170 --> 00:42:09.849
need for pitching. Obviously, it depends on your personal goals and your measures

682
00:42:09.849 --> 00:42:13.690
of success. But it's because I remember that how

683
00:42:13.690 --> 00:42:17.225
I made it in this world, like, quote, unquote made it in this world, is

684
00:42:17.225 --> 00:42:20.825
I made quite a splash in the copywriting world in particular back in

685
00:42:20.825 --> 00:42:24.425
2019. And the reason why is because I pitched to

686
00:42:24.825 --> 00:42:28.585
this is a cautionary tale. Do not do this. Okay? I pitched

687
00:42:28.585 --> 00:42:32.339
to a 101 podcasters in 30 days, and

688
00:42:32.339 --> 00:42:35.940
they were all personalized, all very researched, and I

689
00:42:35.940 --> 00:42:39.240
got a 33% booking rate.

690
00:42:39.700 --> 00:42:43.540
And I kind of I don't regret doing it, but I will never do it

691
00:42:43.540 --> 00:42:47.025
again. Because then if at one point, I

692
00:42:47.025 --> 00:42:50.865
stopped myself from pitching on a certain day, if it started feeling

693
00:42:50.865 --> 00:42:54.625
transactional and I think that's the key here, that when you only

694
00:42:54.625 --> 00:42:57.925
chase the numbers and you forget the human intimate connection

695
00:42:58.450 --> 00:43:02.210
that can happen from podcast guesting, then then you

696
00:43:02.210 --> 00:43:06.050
kind of, like, miss the point. You know? And so you really don't need

697
00:43:06.050 --> 00:43:09.570
to be on as many podcasts as you think you do. And every podcast is

698
00:43:09.570 --> 00:43:13.030
repurposeable. So say if you had a timely

699
00:43:13.755 --> 00:43:17.355
thing in your world, that's something that's time sensitive, maybe a launch. You can always

700
00:43:17.355 --> 00:43:20.894
bring back an old podcast episode to kind of, like, showcase your authority

701
00:43:21.035 --> 00:43:24.474
that you know what you're talking about in this area. And also don't

702
00:43:24.474 --> 00:43:28.075
underestimate the fact that if you built that beautiful bridge of a

703
00:43:28.075 --> 00:43:31.700
relationship, 1, that host can invite you back.

704
00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:35.840
2, that host can recommend you to other people. And 3, just

705
00:43:35.840 --> 00:43:39.680
as, Andrea has experienced, when you build that

706
00:43:39.680 --> 00:43:43.365
relationship, you will find that the best people will

707
00:43:43.365 --> 00:43:46.665
stay in your orbit because they trust you.

708
00:43:47.045 --> 00:43:50.825
And, you might just find some, I like to call them backdoor opportunities

709
00:43:51.365 --> 00:43:54.885
that otherwise wouldn't have been available to you. And that's because you took the time

710
00:43:54.885 --> 00:43:58.619
and the effort to really show up, not just in the pitch, but on

711
00:43:58.619 --> 00:44:02.460
the interview, and you've really made your mark. So you don't

712
00:44:02.460 --> 00:44:05.420
need to be on as many as you think you do. Yeah. I think this

713
00:44:05.420 --> 00:44:08.539
episode is a great example of that. All of you I don't think any of

714
00:44:08.539 --> 00:44:11.965
you pitched me. I was just like, I need I wanna do a roundtable on

715
00:44:11.965 --> 00:44:15.565
this topic, and I know exactly who I need to ask. You know? So I

716
00:44:15.565 --> 00:44:19.165
feel like that is case in point. Okay. Britney, over to you. What's one thing

717
00:44:19.165 --> 00:44:20.785
you wish you'd known when you started?

718
00:44:23.005 --> 00:44:25.425
What I would suggest to people is

719
00:44:26.820 --> 00:44:30.420
think outside of just the

720
00:44:30.420 --> 00:44:33.860
top 200 podcasts, you know, the big,

721
00:44:33.860 --> 00:44:37.620
big podcasts. I think a lot of times, especially when people

722
00:44:37.620 --> 00:44:41.234
get started and they're trying to pitch themselves to these opportunities, they really

723
00:44:41.234 --> 00:44:44.994
look at the very big podcast. When I say very big, I mean

724
00:44:44.994 --> 00:44:48.755
the ones at the top of the Apple charts, Spotify charts, the

725
00:44:48.755 --> 00:44:52.515
ones that have 5,000 ratings, 6000 ratings, all of

726
00:44:52.515 --> 00:44:56.079
that kind of stuff. To be honest, if

727
00:44:56.079 --> 00:44:59.760
you're new to being a guest on a podcast, most

728
00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:03.200
likely, you are not going to get on to those very

729
00:45:03.200 --> 00:45:06.560
big podcasts without having some type of

730
00:45:06.560 --> 00:45:10.065
connection, relationship, introduction, being a

731
00:45:10.065 --> 00:45:13.765
student of those people. I'm not gonna say that it never happens, but

732
00:45:13.905 --> 00:45:17.685
it it rarely happens. You need to kinda build up.

733
00:45:19.105 --> 00:45:22.724
And I've been on some bid big podcast myself.

734
00:45:23.230 --> 00:45:26.670
I've been on, you know, midsized podcasts. I've been on smaller

735
00:45:26.670 --> 00:45:30.370
podcasts, same with my clients. And a lot of times people

736
00:45:30.430 --> 00:45:34.110
discount those small to midsized podcasts because they think it's not

737
00:45:34.110 --> 00:45:37.630
worth their time, because they're not as

738
00:45:37.630 --> 00:45:41.174
big. Bigger does not always mean you're gonna

739
00:45:41.174 --> 00:45:44.234
get the biggest return on investment of your time.

740
00:45:45.575 --> 00:45:49.335
Everybody here is nodding because they know because because they know. This is a

741
00:45:49.335 --> 00:45:52.474
lesson we all learned. Okay? So,

742
00:45:53.140 --> 00:45:56.980
again, that's why we, as an agency, we do pitch big

743
00:45:56.980 --> 00:45:59.640
podcasts. You know, I'm not saying not to do it at all, but,

744
00:46:00.580 --> 00:46:04.340
finding those niche podcast guys, there's a podcast on literally every single

745
00:46:04.340 --> 00:46:08.125
topic you can think of. Like, you are a fly fishing expert.

746
00:46:08.125 --> 00:46:11.805
I don't know. There's fly fishing podcasts. Okay? Like, any

747
00:46:11.805 --> 00:46:15.645
topic you can think of, there's a niche for it. So, and a

748
00:46:15.645 --> 00:46:19.164
lot of times, those listeners, you know, it it might

749
00:46:19.484 --> 00:46:22.890
small but mighty. And so those people take

750
00:46:22.890 --> 00:46:26.570
action. They really trust the podcast host and

751
00:46:26.570 --> 00:46:30.090
who that person invites on. And, I mean, I'll just

752
00:46:30.090 --> 00:46:33.930
speak to my experience. Sometimes when I've been on

753
00:46:33.930 --> 00:46:37.615
bigger podcasts, do I get a flood of

754
00:46:37.615 --> 00:46:41.375
requests to work with me? Yes. Are they all people that I want

755
00:46:41.375 --> 00:46:44.974
to work with? No. That

756
00:46:44.974 --> 00:46:48.655
bad. On some of the smaller podcasts, it's like I get

757
00:46:48.655 --> 00:46:52.380
really quality leads from, and I'm like, this

758
00:46:52.380 --> 00:46:55.500
is the podcast for me. Like, I wanna come back on this podcast. I wanna

759
00:46:55.500 --> 00:46:58.640
be a regular guest. So really don't discount

760
00:46:59.339 --> 00:47:03.099
those small to midsize podcasts because those can actually be a

761
00:47:03.099 --> 00:47:06.585
lot more effective overall for your business or

762
00:47:06.585 --> 00:47:10.365
whatever your goals are with doing podcasting versus

763
00:47:10.985 --> 00:47:14.605
some of the big ones where you think it's going to be this big splash.

764
00:47:14.665 --> 00:47:18.505
And maybe sometimes it is, and sometimes it sends you a bunch

765
00:47:18.505 --> 00:47:21.680
of people that maybe you don't necessarily wanna work with.

766
00:47:22.140 --> 00:47:25.520
Yeah. Yeah. A hard degree. Hard degree. Love that one.

767
00:47:25.740 --> 00:47:28.880
Angie, over to you. What's one thing you wish you had known when you started?

768
00:47:29.740 --> 00:47:33.040
That there's no such thing as a perfect pitch.

769
00:47:33.500 --> 00:47:37.315
That like, the bar for standing out is fairly

770
00:47:37.775 --> 00:47:41.615
low. And if you go back to just being a

771
00:47:41.615 --> 00:47:44.915
human in your communications, being your authentic

772
00:47:44.974 --> 00:47:48.670
selves, it it can work. You know, you can get

773
00:47:48.670 --> 00:47:52.430
the yeses, which will get you to the interview to be able to figure out

774
00:47:52.430 --> 00:47:55.730
if it's a strategy that makes sense and works for you.

775
00:47:56.030 --> 00:47:58.930
So it's just that it's far simpler

776
00:47:59.550 --> 00:48:03.115
than I think I built it up to be because I started it as a

777
00:48:03.115 --> 00:48:06.954
freelancer after pitching myself to be a guest. And then when

778
00:48:06.954 --> 00:48:10.175
I started pitching clients, I think I got

779
00:48:10.395 --> 00:48:13.135
nervous that then I had to be a professional pitcher.

780
00:48:14.170 --> 00:48:17.710
And nothing I don't have a formal PR background. You know?

781
00:48:17.850 --> 00:48:21.610
It's just being human in communications, and that is what converts

782
00:48:21.610 --> 00:48:25.450
in podcasting. Yes. Love that. Love that. Human

783
00:48:25.450 --> 00:48:29.234
humanism at all. That's it. Okay. One more question. But before I get to

784
00:48:29.234 --> 00:48:32.935
that, listeners, gotta remind you what's happening in the Savvy Social School.

785
00:48:32.994 --> 00:48:36.515
Coming up, we have a brand new session called the content collab. It's part

786
00:48:36.515 --> 00:48:40.355
brainstorming, part masterminding. I have all of the ideas. Come on in and

787
00:48:40.355 --> 00:48:43.820
join me if you're in the school, and we'll come up with ideas together for

788
00:48:43.820 --> 00:48:47.660
your content, that's atsavvysocialschool.com. Alright.

789
00:48:47.660 --> 00:48:51.260
Last question for our guests. What's coming up next for your

790
00:48:51.260 --> 00:48:55.035
business? Mai-kee, let's start with you. There

791
00:48:55.035 --> 00:48:58.335
could be so many things. I'm just gonna keep it nice and simple. So,

792
00:48:58.795 --> 00:49:02.234
so I mentioned in this episode that I do have a DIY

793
00:49:02.234 --> 00:49:05.675
course on podcast guesting. So it's not just the pitch stuff. It's

794
00:49:05.675 --> 00:49:09.515
everything before, during and after. So I'm working on

795
00:49:09.515 --> 00:49:13.180
its final evolution of my ultimate podcast guesting

796
00:49:13.320 --> 00:49:16.940
course. But the reason why I'm upgrading it is because I just wanna, like,

797
00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:20.680
splinter it into, like, little bite sized mini lessons. I wanna incorporate an

798
00:49:20.680 --> 00:49:24.395
Easter icon, a decision making tree so you're not wasting time going

799
00:49:24.395 --> 00:49:27.755
through the entire course. You can just find the exact lesson you want. And also

800
00:49:27.755 --> 00:49:31.595
including co pitching calls. So actually having some accountability for

801
00:49:31.595 --> 00:49:35.200
all my members for I'm actually making sure they're

802
00:49:35.200 --> 00:49:38.900
writing pictures every quarter at least just so that they've got something going on. So

803
00:49:39.040 --> 00:49:42.800
taking, Britney's advice of, like, you know, being timely, like, each quarter and

804
00:49:42.800 --> 00:49:46.335
what's coming up in the next quarter, that would be a fantastic way to go.

805
00:49:46.575 --> 00:49:50.175
So that final evolution is gonna be coming out at the end of 2024. So

806
00:49:50.175 --> 00:49:53.535
at the time of this recording, depending on where you're listening, is at w

807
00:49:53.775 --> 00:49:57.455
www.makeysound.comforward/upg, if you're

808
00:49:57.455 --> 00:50:01.270
interested in checking that out. And, yeah, that's really exciting for me

809
00:50:01.270 --> 00:50:04.950
because of all the fun stuff. Because I've done digital Easter egg hunts and

810
00:50:04.950 --> 00:50:08.789
they're so fun. They're little prize, like, little dopamine hits throughout the

811
00:50:08.789 --> 00:50:12.565
course you're gonna be able to find. So I'm really excited for that. That's so

812
00:50:12.565 --> 00:50:16.165
cute. I love that. Congrats on the final evolution of that course. Love it. And

813
00:50:16.165 --> 00:50:18.825
I'll put all the links mentioned in the show notes on landraya.com/324.

814
00:50:20.485 --> 00:50:23.465
Brittney, over to you. What's next for you and your business?

815
00:50:24.245 --> 00:50:27.605
Yes. Thank you so much. What I have coming up in my

816
00:50:27.605 --> 00:50:31.260
business, I, again, so, founder of Human

817
00:50:31.260 --> 00:50:35.019
Connection Agency. You can go check out our website, human connection agency.com, for

818
00:50:35.019 --> 00:50:38.779
our services. We really focus on doing

819
00:50:38.779 --> 00:50:42.255
done for you for clients. So not only just

820
00:50:42.255 --> 00:50:45.714
podcasting, publication pitching, TV pitching,

821
00:50:46.255 --> 00:50:49.775
speaking partnerships, all of that kind of stuff. And so I'm really

822
00:50:49.775 --> 00:50:53.454
focusing on working with more authors. So if you have a book

823
00:50:53.454 --> 00:50:57.155
coming out in 2025 and you need PR support,

824
00:50:57.750 --> 00:51:01.370
whether you are with a traditional publisher or a midsize publisher,

825
00:51:01.510 --> 00:51:04.410
I promise you you will need extra PR support

826
00:51:05.030 --> 00:51:08.170
because the publishers are not gonna have enough time to support you.

827
00:51:08.950 --> 00:51:12.745
So I've been working on a lot of books over the past

828
00:51:12.745 --> 00:51:16.329
couple of years, and I really love doing that and helping authors really

829
00:51:16.329 --> 00:51:19.914
just, like, bring their book to more and more people. I love reading.

830
00:51:20.189 --> 00:51:23.774
So it's really just a passion of mine. So if you're an author

831
00:51:23.774 --> 00:51:27.420
that has a book coming out in 2025, hit me up. Go to human connection

832
00:51:27.420 --> 00:51:31.100
unity.com. Yay. Awesome. Thanks, Britney. And, Angie, over to you.

833
00:51:31.100 --> 00:51:34.619
What's coming up next for you and your business? Yeah. So over the

834
00:51:34.619 --> 00:51:38.300
summer, the PodWise Group started leaning into our

835
00:51:38.300 --> 00:51:41.605
consulting and training with PR firms,

836
00:51:41.905 --> 00:51:45.285
and I have loved every minute of it. So

837
00:51:45.505 --> 00:51:49.265
helping firms that have never pitched their clients for podcast or helping

838
00:51:49.265 --> 00:51:52.650
optimize what they are doing, has been great.

839
00:51:52.890 --> 00:51:56.410
So workshopping in real time and then even licensing some of our

840
00:51:56.410 --> 00:51:59.849
internal training. So we're just gonna continue leaning into

841
00:51:59.849 --> 00:52:03.690
that, connecting with firm owners and

842
00:52:03.690 --> 00:52:07.130
their account execs, and that's really where the Flap Files

843
00:52:07.130 --> 00:52:10.545
newsletter came from. So if anyone wants to check it out, it's at the

844
00:52:10.545 --> 00:52:11.045
podwisegroup.com/flopfiles.

845
00:52:14.625 --> 00:52:18.305
Yeah. Beautiful. And I'll have all those links for y'all in the

846
00:52:18.305 --> 00:52:22.145
show notes, onlinedre.com/324. Thank you so much everyone for being

847
00:52:22.145 --> 00:52:25.950
on this episode. It's so fun. So so fun. Thank you so much for having

848
00:52:25.950 --> 00:52:29.010
us. Thank you. Yes. Thank you.

849
00:52:29.870 --> 00:52:33.230
I love it. Alright. Next up on the podcast. I'm talking about

850
00:52:33.230 --> 00:52:36.910
marketing during an election year because y'all it is noisy out here and I

851
00:52:36.910 --> 00:52:40.724
wanna talk about what we're doing and ask some questions,

852
00:52:40.724 --> 00:52:43.845
give you some prompts, things to think about. So that will be coming up next

853
00:52:43.845 --> 00:52:47.204
on the podcast. In the meantime, make sure you give us a 5 star rating

854
00:52:47.204 --> 00:52:50.885
on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. It helps keep us in the top 100

855
00:52:50.885 --> 00:52:54.250
marketing podcast, and that's all because of you and your support, which I so

856
00:52:54.250 --> 00:52:57.690
appreciate. Thank you so much. I'll be back next Tuesday. Bye for

857
00:52:57.690 --> 00:52:58.190
now.