Oh, artificial intelligence. It is here to stay. And in this conversation, we're
talking about how to use it thoughtfully and mindfully as a
human being interacting with the robots of the Internet. And
today's guest is Avery Schwartz to bring this conversation home. I'm excited
about it. Let's dive in.
You're listening to the Mindful Marketing Podcast. I'm Andrea
Jones.
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Riverside. Avery, welcome to the
show. Oh, thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here.
Yeah. I'm excited to talk all things AI, but I wanna go back to the
beginning for a sec, and talk about you because you
have a really strong history in just bringing
things digital. You've got a best selling book to talk about all things digital and
small business. You, are the tech correspondent for
CTV and all things business. But how did this start? Like,
what's the origin story? Okay. Well, I I am a
person of a particular age. Like, I'm an eighties kid. So that means
that when I was growing up, like, I could not have said to my parents,
mom and dad, when I grow up, I wanna be a web developer. They would
have said, that is not a thing. So I took a
really winding route to get to where I am now. I my first stop was
actually in fine arts school. I have a a fine arts degree. I
have a and then I went to design school after that, so I made my
way into the web through originally through
the root of of web design. So I was a web designer. I had a
web design studio, and then I realized that as as much as I love
designing, my favorite part was actually just working with clients, was
talking with them, figuring out, what do they need. I had a
really deep empathy and still do have really deep empathy for
how, you know, there there's this narrative out there that tech is supposed
to be easy, that tech is supposed to make things easier for people. And I
think in general, overall, it does, but
that doesn't recognize that there is a bit of a struggle, that there's a there's
an adoption cycle. There is a bumpy road.
And my favorite part of of working with my clients was always just kind of
helping them get set up. And then I realized, wait a minute. Like, this is
something I could do. So that's when I I pivoted to being a tech educator.
I own a tech education company where we run practical workshops
for small businesses, charities, and nice people. Like you said, I wrote a
book. I go on TV, but it but it's all it's all in service of
this mission of trying to help nontechnical people
bring technology into their lives, in a way that is
thoughtful, in a way that can help them reach their goals. And
my role is just to be an educator and an interpreter. Yeah.
Ugh. I love everything you do. I
was I feel like one of the first people to buy See You on the
Internet, the book, because I'm just a fan. And I was like, I
want this. Plus, it's, like, gorgeous, and it makes sense with your
design background how pretty everything looks too. So I love that. I did I
did work with the publisher, and my publisher they they sent a a first
draft of the cover of the book, and it was really like, you know those,
like, tech books where it's it's got all these weird, like,
like like, lines and lots of, you know, like like, things looking like
they're flying around, and it's very technical. And I was like, this is
awful. I'm like, no offense, but this is this is not my vibe at all.
I was like, we want it to feel friendly. We want to feel approachable as
like, can we put an emoji on the cover? Can we have more
color? Like, let's use a fun font, like, strip out all of
this, like and and it's always blue. Right? It's like dark navy blue and,
like,
Yeah Yeah. Why the
blue? It's always blue. You're right. It's always blue. Yeah.
Oh, my gosh. I love that. Okay. So switching gears over to AI.
I think that, AI, specifically generative
AI, has shaken us up a lot. Yeah. It has. Yeah.
It really has. And I feel like listeners of
this podcast, we've been talking about the, you know, chat
GPTs of the world for a while. So I wanna just dive right
into the conversation with AI and, like, why does it feel like
sometimes AI is making stuff up? It's like, did you
even check the Internet on this? Don't you have access to this information?
Why did that happen? Okay. So to understand
why generative AI systems like Chat GPT, why they sometimes make things up,
the technical word for it is a hallucination, which I think is hilarious.
It sounds like Chatcheapiti just, like, went on, like, an acid
trip, that it's that it's over in the corner. It's on drugs. It's
hallucinating. But it goes back to to really
understanding what is a a
transformer style generative AI model. And I know I just used a whole bunch of
jargon, but tools like chat GPT are different from
other types of AI. They're different from even other types of machine learning
AI, which has been around us for a a number of years now. But the
way that a tool like ChatGPT works, you've probably heard that it taps
into something called a large language model. And a large
language model is kind of like its knowledge base. It's all of
the information that ChatGPT and other generative AI
systems, have access to. But the thing about a large language model
is that, you know, we've heard that they have basically read every page of the
Internet. It's read all of the publicly available books. It has, you know,
scraped information. It's pulled in all kinds of data to get into that large
language model. But the large language model is
not a search engine. It doesn't behave the way something like Google
does. So the way that Google behaves is that it goes through the
entire Internet with its robots and indexes the
Internet and looks at and it indexes and looks at every single
word and also the connection between web pages, you know,
what's linked to other sites. The way that a large
language model works is that it's looking through all of that original
information, but it's not really looking so much at the words
themselves. It's looking at the connection between the
words. So how often certain words
tend to go together. There are, there are patterns in our
language. There are words that are more, like, based on
on probability that are more likely to appear together.
And so when you interact with a chatbot like chat GPT,
it taps into its large language model, which in this case is called GPT.
And what it's doing is it's it it doesn't
actually know any of the words. It doesn't know what any of the words mean.
It only knows the relationship between the words. So
it's using its understanding of probability, and it's
using its prediction skills to try
and give you the next word in the sentence, the next sentence in
the paragraph, etcetera, that it thinks is probabilistically
most likely to be what you're looking for. So some
people say that Chat GPT is autocomplete on steroids,
and it kind of is. Like, it it it is literally just kind of trying
to autocomplete itself. And so in that way, it is
not it it it it's not self conscious. It's not aware
of the information that it's giving you. So if you ask it for something,
like like, if you're asking it to help you write a caption for a social
media post, that is a situation where there isn't
one right answer. There isn't one factual true
answer. There's a lot of different, ways that you could go with that
caption. Some of them might not be the best quality. You might not like them.
They might not be on brand, but it it it's not looking for a particular
fact. It's when you ask ChatChiBT or another tool like
it to go deep on a particular like like
a vertical, like a particular depth of its knowledge, where
it tries to get into facts, that is where it's more likely to
hallucinate because it it doesn't have although here's the
big caveat. It will happen less and
less as the large language models get more and more sophisticated.
Okay. And it will happen less and less as
generative AI models have something called retrieval
augmented generation, which means they can augment what they generate. So they can change what
they generate by retrieving information from somewhere
else. So, for example, if you've used, a tool like Perplexity,
which I really, really like, Perplexity is using a large
language model, but then it's also searching the live web and
pulling information in that way and kind of smashing those two things
together to give you more accurate answers. And it also gives
you citations. It'll say, we found this on this website, and then you have a
link, and then you can click and you can go and find more. So,
like, once you understand that that's actually how the large language models
work, like, they're not Google, they're not a search engine, then
you were like, oh, okay. So it's actually the thing that makes
it really good is also the thing that makes it
sometimes tell lies. Yeah. Which is so weird. Right?
Yeah. So weird. You know, I, I
actually I use Chat gbt quite a bit, especially for coming up with
ideas. And I have to literally tell it
words not to use because it just latches on to certain words,
like unlock or unleash or,
there there's, like, a few words where I'm, like, can we please stop using this
word? I'm never gonna use it again now because you've ruined it for me.
And I feel like that makes sense because it's just trying to
predict what I wanted to say. Very interesting.
Absolutely. So when we think about this as a marketer,
they're they're fall, people fall into 2 camps. There's a people who are, like, never
in a 1000000 years, and then there's people who are, like, I use it every
day. And I feel like I'm somewhere in the middle, but then I feel like
I have to always explain. Like, I use it every day, but I don't
do this because it feels like I'm cheating. Like, I'm not cheating, but I
am using this as a shortcut. Why does it feel like we're cheating when we're
using these tools? Yeah. I mean, there's a real ethical
dilemma here and and quite a paradox of I I
think the the more you use generative AI and the
more time you put into it, the more time you put into training a system
to get to know you, to be able to write like you, you you give
it that feedback, like, hey. In my case, it's the word
demystify, the word wield. It always wants to
wield things. And I'm like, no. We don't we don't use that verb in my
life. So it's like teaching it which words to use, what
tone, etcetera. Because generative AI is a machine learning
system and machine learning systems get better. They literally
learn and they learn through trial and error, through feedback, and through
lots of practice. So the more you train it, the better it gets. So
anybody that's that's invested a bit of that time, it it is
undeniable that this is a tool that can be helpful. This is a
tool that can supercharge your productivity. But then you have that moment
of, like, you know, if you're if you're someone that, you know, has any sense
of integrity, you've heard that, okay, maybe it was trained on on
copyrighted data. There's a bit of a gray area there. You're thinking,
okay. I'm not really creating this. Can I say that it's something that I actually
made? Is that ethical? There's also some environmental
concerns with generative AI. The actual
computing power required to run these systems
is immense. Wow. And when you're using computing power, that means you
might be using more fossil fuels, you might be using more electricity, you know,
etcetera, etcetera. And so there's an environmental impact there as well.
So it's it's kind of like like, what is a thoughtful marketer to do?
You know, you you want to potentially do better work. You
want to do better work in less time, or with that extra
time, you could just do more work, I guess. So
is is it cheating to use Chat GPT? This is this is one of those
conversations that, I think is best had with, like, a glass of wine because it
it almost goes a little bit more into a, like, a theoretical conversation. But I
was talking with someone recently, and they said that they felt like cheating. And I
said, okay, let's unpack that a little bit. Is it
cheating? Use a calculator. And we talked about that a little bit.
And I said, I I have a daughter who's in middle school. And right now
she is she's at the point now where she's allowed to use a calculator in
math class. But for a number of grades, she wasn't allowed to use a calculator
because it was very important that she knew how to manually do
long division because she was understanding the
mathematical concepts of addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division.
So in that case, it would be very bad for her to use a calculator,
but I use a calculator all the time because it frees
up my time and my mental energy to do something that's, you know,
more intensive. Right? Yeah. So
the thing about ChatChiPT though is that if you
completely outsource everything to it, if you
if you if you've trained it really well so that it can write just like
you and you say, write me 5 blog posts, and then you just kind
of, I don't know, you you go and do something else and you come back
and you're like, yeah. Yeah. That looks good. Good. Good. You copy and paste. You
publish. You put it right up on the web. You let it do everything for
you. I think that's when it feels like
cheating because there there's 2 things. There's
are you potentially, cheating by getting to the final
product without you being the one that's going there? So it's like, is that ethical
to then turn around and, you know, sell it to your clients and to and
to bill people for for those hours? But what I think you're really cheating
is you're probably cheating yourself. Because, you
know, I'm a writer. Like, I, I actually do like to write. I wrote
a book, and I and I wrote the book myself. I didn't write it with
artificial intelligence. When you're
going through the process of writing, you're going through the process of
thinking. And it's hard. Writing
is hard. And it's hard because you're
doing more than just stringing together words in a
sentence. You're working out your thoughts. You know, you're figuring out,
okay. Does this make sense here? Is this a logical argument? Do I need
more examples over here? If I'm going to counteract my argument, is
this flowing? Does do I need to to have something here that
will, wrap this up? And, you know, there's different types of writing. There's
writing an email to my sister-in-law. Who cares? ChatChapiti
can do that. I don't care. But writing, you know, a
detailed blog post about, you know, thoughts in the industry or
something. That's the point where
I might use AI tools to help me. They might help me
to edit a little bit. They might help me to provide a, you know,
a counterbalance to my argument. But I I personally will not
let them just do everything Yeah. Because it's cheating me out
of the thought process. Yeah. Yeah. And I think part of it
too is this idea of, creating original work
as well. I love that I can use chat
gbt to help me with things like, you know, how can I wrap this up,
or or what's a good title for this, or what's a hook
for this? But when I think about contributing
interesting stories, adding flavor,
adding perspective. Those are things that I don't
think ChatGPT can do nor should do.
And I've even been playing around with Gemini recently as well.
Same thing. I don't I don't want those tools to do those things
for me personally because it does feel like cheating. But I do wanted to
one of the things I did recently was, like, here are my top performing podcast
episodes. What are 10 more things I can talk about on the on the podcast?
And it gave me 10 ideas that were terrible and one that was great. And
I was like, okay. Good. So I feel like there's some there's
some the calculator shortcut there where I can go relieve my
brain of thinking about this for 1 minute so that I can focus on the
things that kind of add more context there, which I love. I love.
Yeah. There's, there there's a sense of of getting
to know what the tools are really good at and getting to know what they're
not good at at all and then picking and choosing. Like like, treat
them like a coworker. You'd be like, hey. I know what I'm good at, so
I'm gonna focus on that part. I know what you're good at, so I'm gonna
let you, you know, run with this part. I I used Chetche Bt
recently to do some, data analysis. I I took an Excel
spreadsheet that had something like 3,000
rows of feedback from a program that we had run-in my company.
And I took out all of the the names and email addresses of people because
I don't wanna put confidential information into chat gpt. And I
put it into chat gpt, and I said, read through this all of this,
feedback and do a sentiment analysis. And it
did it it did a really good job kind of pulling out key ideas.
Now that was me playing to its strengths, and then I played
to my strengths by then taking that and then
crafting it into a proposal for a new program that I wanna
run. So I wouldn't let ChatcheBT write the the proposal, but I would
let Chachi Bt do the sentiment analysis for me because that would have oh my
gosh. That would have taken me probably 6 or 7 hours Yeah. To read
through all of that, to copy and paste, to to highlight,
you know, commonalities and common threads. Like, it did it in, you know, 3
minutes or something. Yeah. So. Brilliant. Ugh. I
love that. And now I'm like, oh, I need to do this. Yeah. It's
pretty good at it. Yeah. Surprisingly good. I love that. I love that. Okay. We're
gonna take a quick break. And when we come back, we have more AI questions
coming at you. We are long past the good old days
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there. And we're back. So
you talked a little bit about this already, and I wanna dive further
on the topic of generative AI and copyright
and who owns all of this. Because the latest update
to chat g p t, you know, it can create photos and videos
and design things for you. But do we
own these things that it's creating? Short
answer is probably not
or no, depending on where you live in the world. So I'm
in Canada, and in Canada, our copyright law does not
recognize generative AI. Like, our copyright law predates generative
AI. So Innovation Science and Economic Development Canada
has, just wrapped up a consultation process with experts. They're taking
all of the results from that. They're going to be advising and
creating policy advice to update copyright law in Canada. So,
TLDR, it's coming. You know, in Canada, we have an AI
act that is being worked on at the moment, some copyright updates. But
in America, the US copyright office has
said, no, what you create with generative AI
cannot be, copywritten means
like writing copy for a website. I don't think you use that word if you're
talking about copywriting something. So let me let me rephrase that sentence.
The US patent office has said or sorry. The the
you know what I mean. The, the federal copyright office in the United
States has said that, that anything that's created with generative AI
cannot be applied for a copyright, it cannot be applied for a trademark.
So this is this is a big thing. If you use generative AI tools to
make a logo, if you use generative AI tools to make an image
that, you know, you wanna put on social media that will represent a
program that you're running, you know, knock yourself out. But if you wanna turn around
and then say that you own copyright to that image or if you use
chat gbt to write a book or a white paper
or something, it gets really tricky. You know, this thought of,
well, then who actually owns that intellectual property, who owns the
copyright of that material. So, in general, the answer
is no, that that you basically either you probably
don't or you definitely don't, have the copyright to anything you
create. I think it's so important to emphasize that because
this is where that that cheating feeling comes from
because you have to be very careful, especially business owners, marketers,
as you know what I mean? It's for your clients even. Like, there is some
gray area and then there's like, oh, no. Definitely don't do this at
all. And logos, any written copy
that's going on websites and things like that, I just would stay away
from it if I were you because you can get used some serious hot water.
But I wanna talk specifically about, like, client stuff and,
especially, you you mentioned earlier you removed names and email
addresses to not feed it to the machine.
Yeah. Because it's not safe. Right? Can you talk a little bit more about that
as well? Yeah. So, you know, this is where I started to bump up
against my knowledge of, you know, I am not a computer scientist. I I am
not a an AI researcher. I'm also not a, I'm not a cybersecurity
specialist, but I am an information sponge,
and I read everything I possibly can. And I talk to a lot of people,
and I listen as much as I can. And what
I hear out there in the in the kerfuffle, in the
chatter, is that we need to be a little bit concerned and and a
little bit, we we definitely need to be a
little safety conscious about putting any
confidential information into chat GPT. Now chat
GPT and and and all the other systems too, Microsoft Copilot, Google
Gemini, Perplexity, Claude, Meta AI, all of
them, same thing. These systems already know a heck of a lot about me.
Like, anything that that you could find out about me by googling me, I
figure is fair game. So my name, what I do, my
business, etcetera, fine. I don't I don't pull that out.
But anytime that I'm entering any information that has to do with my clients
or people that I work with, that's where, if I
can, I will strip out names, I'll strip out email addresses,
anything that could be, personally identifiable? And that's
it's it's just because the way that these systems
work is a black box. We
know in general how they work, but we don't know
exactly how they come to the exact answer that they come
to. And so when you're feeding information in and and
I know Microsoft and OpenAI and Google, they have all
said that they don't take your material that
you type into the system, that they are not taking that and using it as
their training data for their large language model. But
there's also real world examples, and if you look it up, you'll find them, real
world examples where people will interact with these systems, and all of a sudden, it
it starts spitting out information that it it got from somewhere. Mhmm.
So I I am a bit concerned about putting any
sensitive information in there. Instead, I'll just pull it out or
I'll rephrase. But that being said, there's still a heck of a lot you can
do with these systems without, you you know, like, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna
put, like, all of my client payment information or anything like
that. I mean, do it. Like, you know, I would never do that. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, the big guys, they have a lot of information on us already
too. So I feel like Yeah. I feel like the the the least
amount I can give it, the better. One of my good friends works
in data privacy now on the government level. And the stuff she
tells me, I'm like, o m g. Like, they know a lot about
us. And some of the stuff we're, like, volunteering, just
to share. So anything that we can be very careful and
mindful of how we give them that information is, I think,
key here, especially with other people's stuff.
Like, if you're a marketer and you're working on your your client
sentiment analysis, for instance, on, you know, reviews that they've had, remove those
names, remove those email addresses for sure because you don't want that
information being leaked out there. I love that.
Okay. So on the same tone of, like,
using generative AI, specifically as a marketer,
as a professional, even, you know, I'm thinking about copywriters, I'm thinking
about web developers, I'm thinking about designers.
Do we need to disclose this for our
clients? Yeah. So that's another big
question that you can come at from a bunch of different angles. So let's start
with the regulatory response. And that is
that in Canada and in America right now, you are
not legally required to disclose the use of generative
AI, like, from, like, like, the federal level at either of those companies.
If you are in the European Union, you do have to disclose the
use because the EU has passed their AI act, which
does have different parameters for the disclosure of use of
AI. Like I said, there's one coming in Canada, there's one coming in
America, all of this stuff, you know, this is typical. Technology moves faster than
the law does, so the law has to, you know, catch up.
But that's just, you know, the the basics. Right? Like
like, regulatory, you know, federal law. Do you have to that
now you've got to kind of get into this this question of, you know,
ethically, do you need to tell your clients? Now
I would assume that your clients know that you use certain tools,
that when you are creating an image for them,
or or some graphic design for their social media posts, or
for their website that you are not, you know, personally painting
a photo, you know, an image that will become, you know, their their Facebook
post, that you are using tools. You're using Photoshop. You might
be using Canva. You might be using Adobe Premiere to cut some
videos. They know that you're using tools and I think it's it's
generally considered okay to use tools.
I think that the real dilemma lies in,
the value of the work. And this is
the thing that becomes really, really thorny, which is that, you've got to
think about why and I know we're we're getting a bit theoretical here, but
but why are your clients hiring you? What is the
value? Is the value the final product?
Is the value the getting to the final product? Is the
value that they, they love working with you because
you're so pleasant to work with, is the value that
you can, you know, do some analysis and some strategy.
But if the value is purely in the final product,
then we've got a problem. Mhmm. Because we've got robots that can get
to the final product. And we got robots that don't sleep, they don't eat. Right
now, a lot of them are free or very, very low cost. So it's gonna
be a race to the bottom really, really fast in terms of just
competition of, you know, how can a human compete with a robot if all you
care about is the final product? So that right there, I think,
is why some people are hesitant to tell their
clients that they're using generative AI because it might open up a
conversation of the client, and hopefully your clients are much more respectful than
this. But the client could look you in the eye and say, well, what am
I paying you for then? Yeah. You know, and you better have a really good
answer to that question. And hopefully, you are
bringing so much more value than just the, like, well, I
sliced and diced and made 10 Instagram posts for you. Yeah.
That that there's more to it than that. But if you can't say that there's
more to it than that, then, like, I mean, they might fire
you. And frankly, I would probably fire you, too. Yeah. You know, everybody wants
to save money, and if the if the robot can do just as good of
a job, then why not let the robot do it? So it's, it's, it's a
real, it's a really meaty question, that
really gets into as marketers, what is our value?
And I I strongly believe that it is not solely in the final
product, but we have to get better at communicating
that value to our clients so they don't assume
that the value is in the final product. You have my wheels spinning over
here because this is something I've been trying to
conceptualize for myself and and especially, I mentor,
you know, marketers, social media managers. And this question does come
up, often, especially for clients who are more
budget conscious and, you know, scrappier, and they're trying to
do the thing. And frankly, there is a lot that these tools
can do. I like to compare it to the Photoshop versus
Canva conversation where, you know, go back 10 years
ago. If you said as a marketer that you primarily
use Canva as your design tool, people were like, what am I paying you
for? Right? Like, oh my gosh. You don't use Photoshop? You don't use the Adobe
Suite? Whereas now, it is very acceptable
and encouraged even to use Canva as the tool for, like,
a very easy way to, like, whip up something really quickly that doesn't need all
the technical aspects of, like, an Adobe product. So I do
think that there's a conversation there. And I also hear a little inkling of, like,
an ethical conversation around what are we telling our
clients, how are we presenting this information. Because if we are
using it, we definitely do need to disclose it, I think, from an ethical
perspective. Like, you know, having, we're working on this with our
agency right now, having, like, a one cheater or, like, even a page on our
website that's, like, here's how we use AI tools in the
business. Yeah. And so I think that the there's, like, a lot of things
at play there. And like you said, it's moving so much faster than,
the laws can keep up with it. So it we're kinda like the wild, wild
west out here making our own rules as we go before the laws catch up.
Yeah. Absolutely. And it's one of those things where, like, you know, this could be
a completely separate podcast episode, and I'm sure you've had this this episode and
will continue to have it. But, this kind of gets you into, again, that big
conversation about what is your value, what is the value that you bring to your
clients, and, also, how is your fee structure
reflecting that value? And is your fee structure aligned with
that value? Because, and now here come here comes some Avery opinions for
you. I don't do a lot of client services these days, but
I did for many, many years, and I was never a
fan of the hourly rate. I am not a fan of the billable hour. I
am not in the business of selling time. I am in the business of selling
expertise. I'm in the business of selling ease. I'm in the business of
selling strategy. I am a bit in the business of selling the final
product because it's gonna be pretty good too. But if
you are doing a billable hour with your clients and
if using generative AI literally gets more
done in less time, you've got a problem. Yeah. Either
your billable hour like, your rate has to go up or you're going to
have to do something to add value in that hour
because you may actually be able to create. And and this this is what a
lot of studies are showing that on average, people that use generative AI
tools are saving between 25 45 percent of their
time. Wow. And so what are you gonna do with that time? Are you gonna
and this gets into a big conversation of, like, as a society, what are we
going to do with that time? Unfortunately, because we're all just
capitalists. We're probably just gonna do more more work with that
time. But wouldn't it be beautiful if we did less work, if we if we
took that time and that was time that all of a sudden we all just
embraced a 4 day work week, or we, you know, spent more time with our
family and our our and our communities and our pets and and the things that
we doing the things that we love. But we'll probably
just do more work. I was just so there the
podcast episode that's coming out next month, we're talking
about systems and automations. And
this is part of that conversation, which is, you know, we're
we are in the capitalistic society of, like, improving things,
But at the same time, there's something so sweet
about having the hobbies. You know, like, having the time to do the
things. Like, we we just do this because we like to frolic and enjoy it.
And so Yeah. I I think that, hopefully, we can also do
that with the power of technology and how quickly it's moving,
you know, all this free time that we're saving. You know, we can read
some romance novels and, like, enjoy a glass of wine in the sunshine. How about
that? That's right. I love it. I love it. I'll be out in my
garden, like, you know, tending to my flowers, which is what I love to do
when I'm offline. Yes. Beautiful. And,
speaking of flowers, y'all should, follow Avery on social media. She'll
she'll post all that stuff there. You can find all the links to Avery's
work, online dreya.com/309. And
hey, guess what? Avery's gonna be speaking at our social media day summit coming
up on June 30th. Avery, can you give us a little teaser
about what your keynote's gonna be about? We're gonna be talking about this
stuff. We're gonna get into these meaty issues. You
know, I I am not an AI hater. I am also not an
AI hype girl. I live in that in between world where I think
most people are living right now. I'm trying to figure out how to how to
wrestle with this stuff, how to use it in a really thoughtful, ethical
way, to to get the benefits, but also to
minimize the risk. So that's the kind of stuff I'm gonna be talking about.
How to as a marketer, how do you use AI in a really thoughtful
way? Yes. It's gonna be a lot of fun. We're gonna it's gonna be a
lively discussion. We're gonna have a good time. Yay. I'm looking forward to it. Make
sure y'all grab your tickets for that. And, Avery, if people wanna connect with you,
tell us a little bit more about Camptech and how else they can connect with
you. Yeah. Sure. So, Camptech, you know, we run, a
number of different, training sessions for companies,
for, small business groups, but we also run a whole bunch just for the general
public. So you can check those out. You can attend them. They're online, so
you can attend from anywhere. If you go to camp tech.ca/
workshops I think it I think it's workshops, plural. Yeah. I'm
fairly certain it is. Camptech.ca/workshops. Also, like you
said, you can find me. I I'm an oversharer on the Internet. I'm
always online. I think there's somebody named Avery Swartz that lives
in Tennessee, but, too bad for that person because I own that
name online. If you if you look up Avery Swartz, it will be me.
It is nobody else will will show up with that name. I've got it on
lock. I love that. I think there's something too for having a unique ish
name. My name, and I can't get anywhere.
Thank you so much, Avery, for being on the show today. It's been my
pleasure. And all of you listening, thank you for hanging out with us today.
All the links are in the show notes onlinedrea.com/309.
And make sure you give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
Helps keep us in the top 100 marketing podcasts. That's all because of
your support. I'll be back at you soon with another episode.
Until then, I'll see you on the Internet as well. Bye.