1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,720 Sustainable marketing is the name of the game, and I'm excited to have today's 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:08,559 conversation because speaking in collaborations is 3 00:00:08,559 --> 00:00:12,400 one of my favorite attraction strategies, and we're gonna get into all 4 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,875 the nitty gritty today with Jen Zellers. But first, a word from our 5 00:00:15,875 --> 00:00:19,395 sponsor. I've recorded over 300 podcast 6 00:00:19,395 --> 00:00:23,235 episodes. Yeah. It's a lot of podcast episodes, and I've tried a lot of 7 00:00:23,235 --> 00:00:26,994 different virtual recording studios. But my favorite has 8 00:00:26,994 --> 00:00:30,789 been Riverside. Riverside makes their virtual recording 9 00:00:30,789 --> 00:00:34,629 studio look so profesh. My guests love it. Plus, 10 00:00:34,629 --> 00:00:38,309 I also low key love recording YouTube videos in here as well 11 00:00:38,309 --> 00:00:41,930 because it's so easy to use. My team also loves Riverside 12 00:00:41,989 --> 00:00:45,415 because it spits out separate audio, video tracks, making editing 13 00:00:45,795 --> 00:00:49,415 easy breezy, lemon squeezy. And if you want a little magic, 14 00:00:49,475 --> 00:00:53,155 they've got this tool called MagicClips, which uses 15 00:00:53,155 --> 00:00:56,860 AI to take your video and turn it into perfect social 16 00:00:56,860 --> 00:01:00,320 media sized videos. I'm talking vertical videos for TikTok and Instagram, 17 00:01:00,379 --> 00:01:04,140 Facebook Reels, all the places you can post these videos with the captions 18 00:01:04,140 --> 00:01:07,659 included, and you don't have to hunt and search for that 19 00:01:07,659 --> 00:01:10,640 perfect clip. So if you wanna try this out for yourself, 20 00:01:11,445 --> 00:01:14,564 click the link that goes with this video. Or if you're listening to the audio 21 00:01:14,564 --> 00:01:18,104 on the podcast, it's in the show notes. Okay. Click that link. 22 00:01:18,164 --> 00:01:21,784 Use the 15% off coupon code. It's Drea, Drea, and 23 00:01:22,884 --> 00:01:25,944 try Riverside for yourself. Thank you, Riverside. 24 00:01:27,820 --> 00:01:31,500 Alright. Welcome back to the Mindful Marketing podcast. This is episode number three 25 00:01:31,500 --> 00:01:35,180 forty four, where we help you scroll less, connect more so we can grow 26 00:01:35,180 --> 00:01:38,940 together. Jen Sellers, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having 27 00:01:38,940 --> 00:01:42,765 me, Andrea. I'm excited to be here. I'm excited to chat with you because I 28 00:01:42,765 --> 00:01:46,445 have been in your ecosystem for a while. I 29 00:01:46,445 --> 00:01:49,744 remember signing up for your collaborations, 30 00:01:50,925 --> 00:01:54,550 like, database back in the day. And so I'm excited to, 31 00:01:54,550 --> 00:01:58,390 like, talk about your journey and how you got here. But for 32 00:01:58,390 --> 00:02:02,170 those people listening, can you give us the quick definition? 33 00:02:02,630 --> 00:02:06,090 Like, what does sustainable marketing mean to you? 34 00:02:06,790 --> 00:02:10,444 So around here for us, it means creating a 35 00:02:10,444 --> 00:02:14,125 visibility ecosystem. So creating your marketing 36 00:02:14,125 --> 00:02:17,805 foundations, we do it through speaking and collaborations and then using 37 00:02:17,805 --> 00:02:21,564 that to create your marketing assets so that you're not creating them from 38 00:02:21,564 --> 00:02:25,120 scratch every time and you're not burning out on your marketing anymore. 39 00:02:25,980 --> 00:02:28,799 Yeah. Not burning out is, like, the ultimate goal. 40 00:02:29,659 --> 00:02:32,780 So tell us your story. Like, did you have a big burnout moment? How did 41 00:02:32,780 --> 00:02:36,215 you get to today? I kind of hate 42 00:02:36,275 --> 00:02:39,095 content marketing, which is why I'm in the lab 43 00:02:39,955 --> 00:02:43,315 because I'm all the ideas, but I 44 00:02:43,315 --> 00:02:47,155 am not so much of a creator. So I can come up 45 00:02:47,155 --> 00:02:50,935 with all of the ideas for how to grow your business, do creative things 46 00:02:51,290 --> 00:02:54,430 to bring people in. But I really, really hate 47 00:02:54,890 --> 00:02:58,190 creating marketing assets from scratch, especially 48 00:02:58,330 --> 00:03:02,170 graphics and that kind of thing. So as someone who has 49 00:03:02,170 --> 00:03:05,230 been speaking on summits and podcasts since 2015, 50 00:03:05,875 --> 00:03:09,715 I started figuring out ways that I could use that and helping other 51 00:03:09,715 --> 00:03:13,415 people do that too. And that transitioned from 52 00:03:13,875 --> 00:03:17,715 virtual summit search, which is where we have the speaker directory now, 53 00:03:17,715 --> 00:03:21,090 but it's not so much what I focus on because I realized the best way 54 00:03:21,090 --> 00:03:24,770 to get started is proactively through podcasts and being a 55 00:03:24,770 --> 00:03:28,610 guest on there and then going on to other visibility strategies 56 00:03:28,610 --> 00:03:32,450 like virtual summits and speaking in other people's programs and stuff like 57 00:03:32,450 --> 00:03:36,135 that. So that's kinda how we got here. Yeah. I 58 00:03:36,215 --> 00:03:39,815 I'm with you there. I find that so I I 59 00:03:39,815 --> 00:03:43,174 do like creating content, but I find that some 60 00:03:43,174 --> 00:03:47,015 things like the summits and the podcasting, especially when you get the 61 00:03:47,015 --> 00:03:50,850 right one, it adds such, like, a burst of energy 62 00:03:51,310 --> 00:03:55,150 to your business, whereas content creation feels a lot of time 63 00:03:55,150 --> 00:03:58,910 more like the daily, like, input, the daily grind. And 64 00:03:58,910 --> 00:04:02,444 so that's what I like about, specifically speaking, on 65 00:04:02,444 --> 00:04:05,805 summits and things is that, you know, you do it once and then it's like 66 00:04:05,805 --> 00:04:08,605 a flurry of activity and you have all these new people in your world and 67 00:04:08,605 --> 00:04:11,724 you kinda like can chill after and take a break. Do you find the same 68 00:04:11,724 --> 00:04:15,490 thing? Yeah. And the other thing though is even with 69 00:04:15,490 --> 00:04:19,010 summits, which are a finite timeframe of when the 70 00:04:19,010 --> 00:04:22,850 summit's happening, you can still take that content and use 71 00:04:22,850 --> 00:04:25,810 it for a long time. So podcasts are a great way to do that, but 72 00:04:25,810 --> 00:04:29,425 summits even too, because people are probably asking you questions. So that 73 00:04:29,425 --> 00:04:32,725 flurry of activity at the beginning where all these new people are coming in 74 00:04:33,104 --> 00:04:36,785 and they may have new questions that you haven't gotten asked yet, that turns 75 00:04:36,785 --> 00:04:40,245 into even more content. So it just kind of snowballs from there. 76 00:04:40,705 --> 00:04:44,405 Yeah. I love that. Okay. So why do you think 77 00:04:44,819 --> 00:04:47,800 that we as business owners and entrepreneurs, 78 00:04:49,379 --> 00:04:53,219 kind of see Summit since speaking as such a powerful tool for 79 00:04:53,219 --> 00:04:56,740 our community? Like, why do you think it works so well as part of your 80 00:04:56,740 --> 00:05:00,505 visibility ecosystem? It gets you in front of new people. And 81 00:05:00,505 --> 00:05:04,045 if you're doing it right, it's getting you in front of 82 00:05:04,105 --> 00:05:07,945 the right people. Because if you're saying no to summits and 83 00:05:07,945 --> 00:05:11,560 podcast invites that are not your ideal 84 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:15,400 audience, who are not going to put you in front of dream clients, then you're 85 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:19,160 saving your time and your energy for ones that are. And that can 86 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,840 do so much more for your business growth and your marketing than putting 87 00:05:22,840 --> 00:05:26,685 out a hundred Instagram posts or a thousand TikToks or 88 00:05:26,685 --> 00:05:30,365 whatever your other content marketing happens to be, but it can also turn into 89 00:05:30,365 --> 00:05:34,205 those. So that's where I see the power of speaking, especially 90 00:05:34,205 --> 00:05:37,885 on my podcasts and summits and other places where you're getting, like you said, 91 00:05:37,885 --> 00:05:41,610 that burst of new audience members, but 92 00:05:41,610 --> 00:05:44,270 also that content for marketing. 93 00:05:45,289 --> 00:05:49,050 Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So if someone wants to start, where, 94 00:05:49,050 --> 00:05:52,485 where do we start when it comes to like teeing ourselves out? So we do 95 00:05:52,485 --> 00:05:55,765 get that burst of new people and all of the good stuff that comes with 96 00:05:55,765 --> 00:05:59,605 that. Yeah. So when we get started with our clients, we always 97 00:05:59,605 --> 00:06:03,365 send them on a podcast tour and we tend to recommend doing 98 00:06:03,365 --> 00:06:06,985 that quarterly because if you're sending out 20 to 30 podcast 99 00:06:07,259 --> 00:06:11,020 pitches to the Right Fit Podcasts, then you typically are going to 100 00:06:11,020 --> 00:06:14,080 book somewhere between five to seven podcasts each quarter. 101 00:06:14,539 --> 00:06:17,979 And that can differ. Like if a client's like, Hey, this quarter's really 102 00:06:17,979 --> 00:06:21,020 busy. We tone it down a bit. If they're like, I really need, I'm doing 103 00:06:21,020 --> 00:06:24,795 a launch. I want to get stuff going for the next quarter. We do more 104 00:06:24,795 --> 00:06:28,255 of those, but if you're doing it quarterly, you're constantly 105 00:06:28,315 --> 00:06:32,075 getting fresh content coming in. And so that's gonna keep 106 00:06:32,075 --> 00:06:35,819 your marketing efforts really sustainable because you always have new stuff. And 107 00:06:35,819 --> 00:06:39,340 then you can keep rotating that out with your evergreen that you've created 108 00:06:39,340 --> 00:06:43,099 from last quarter's podcast tour and all of 109 00:06:43,099 --> 00:06:46,620 your past speaking opportunities. So I always recommend starting 110 00:06:46,620 --> 00:06:50,324 there with a podcast tour because it is proactive. And then 111 00:06:50,324 --> 00:06:54,004 from there, you're gonna start getting other invites too. Yeah. Y'all 112 00:06:54,004 --> 00:06:57,625 listening, one of my favorite attraction strategies is podcast guesting. 113 00:06:57,685 --> 00:07:01,444 Like, it is my it leans into my preference, which 114 00:07:01,444 --> 00:07:05,270 is, I am just, like, off the cuff talker. So 115 00:07:05,270 --> 00:07:08,949 if you put me in a podcast space and someone's, like, asking me questions and 116 00:07:08,949 --> 00:07:11,289 I get to answer them, it's the ideal scenario. 117 00:07:13,430 --> 00:07:16,229 But I find that it has to be the right podcast. So can you talk 118 00:07:16,229 --> 00:07:19,735 to me a little bit about, you know, if someone's looking for you know, looking 119 00:07:19,735 --> 00:07:23,575 to do this podcast tour, how do we know if a podcast or pitching 120 00:07:23,575 --> 00:07:27,115 is a right fit podcast? Yes. That is a great question. 121 00:07:27,335 --> 00:07:31,015 So when I'm bringing in a client to work on this, I 122 00:07:31,015 --> 00:07:34,800 usually ask them some things. So who's your audience? That's 123 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,240 going to be one starting point. What are your offers and 124 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,540 then what are your goals with it? Because if you're looking 125 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:45,360 to build authority, I might put you on a different podcast than if you 126 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:49,125 are trying to get leads or sales from it. The other thing I asked 127 00:07:49,125 --> 00:07:51,845 them actually is, what do you love to talk about and what questions are you 128 00:07:51,845 --> 00:07:55,525 getting? So we take your audience, we take your offers 129 00:07:55,525 --> 00:07:59,280 and tie those into the questions that you're getting, the topics that you could 130 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:03,120 talk on forever. So like mindful marketing, and then we're going to 131 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,400 bring all of that together to find your sweet spot. And that is going to 132 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,840 tell you what your profitable speaking topic is and what kinds of podcasts you want 133 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,120 to get on, because they need to be ones that are going to facilitate that 134 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:16,885 topic and really get you in front of the right audiences. 135 00:08:18,065 --> 00:08:21,345 So if you're not getting in front of the right audience and you're not able 136 00:08:21,345 --> 00:08:25,185 to pitch a podcast topic that is going to speak to 137 00:08:25,185 --> 00:08:28,970 them on that particular podcast. So it might be a great podcast, but it's 138 00:08:28,970 --> 00:08:32,169 not the right fit for you. There are plenty of times where I'm doing a 139 00:08:32,169 --> 00:08:35,770 no fuss podcast tour for a client, and I'm looking at a podcast and I 140 00:08:35,770 --> 00:08:39,130 think it's gonna be great. And then I go dig in a little bit 141 00:08:39,130 --> 00:08:42,745 deeper and I go, nevermind. That 142 00:08:42,745 --> 00:08:46,105 topic is not going to fit. So, like, maybe we're talking about life 143 00:08:46,105 --> 00:08:49,785 coaching and this is a tidiness, but 144 00:08:49,785 --> 00:08:52,685 that life coach has a really specific 145 00:08:53,144 --> 00:08:56,610 angle on what they're talking about, and it doesn't really get 146 00:08:56,610 --> 00:08:59,970 into decluttering your house. And so maybe I say, okay, 147 00:08:59,970 --> 00:09:03,730 nevermind. We're not gonna pitch them for that one, but this other one 148 00:09:03,730 --> 00:09:07,570 has a slightly different angle on this, and maybe it's decluttering your 149 00:09:07,570 --> 00:09:11,385 life. And for whatever reason, the topics they've had on before fit 150 00:09:11,385 --> 00:09:15,145 a lot better with that client's topic. So you have to make sure 151 00:09:15,145 --> 00:09:18,905 that you're really customizing it and not just sending out pitches to every single 152 00:09:18,905 --> 00:09:22,529 podcast that looks like maybe it'll be a right fit. You you get really, 153 00:09:22,529 --> 00:09:26,290 really specific, customize your topic, customize the questions that you're pitching 154 00:09:26,290 --> 00:09:29,810 them, and make sure that it's relevant for that particular 155 00:09:29,810 --> 00:09:33,330 audience too. Because what you say to mompreneurs is not gonna be the same thing 156 00:09:33,330 --> 00:09:36,915 that you would say to CEOs of a company with 157 00:09:36,915 --> 00:09:40,755 50 employees. Yeah. Yeah. I think the 158 00:09:40,755 --> 00:09:44,195 customization thing is key. I say this all the time too because, you know, on 159 00:09:44,195 --> 00:09:47,910 this podcast, I get so many pitches that it's 160 00:09:47,910 --> 00:09:51,110 the ones that stand out or the ones that get on the show or someone 161 00:09:51,110 --> 00:09:54,950 I know personally like you. So, like, you kind 162 00:09:54,950 --> 00:09:58,390 of have to do the research or hire someone who's gonna do the research so 163 00:09:58,390 --> 00:10:01,770 that it can stand out. Because I promise you, the bigger podcasts 164 00:10:02,595 --> 00:10:06,355 or the ones who've been around for a while, they get so many pitches that 165 00:10:06,355 --> 00:10:10,115 you kinda have to to stand out and have those those talking 166 00:10:10,115 --> 00:10:13,795 points. What about you know, you you 167 00:10:13,795 --> 00:10:17,570 mentioned having the topic. I think you you talk 168 00:10:17,730 --> 00:10:20,710 you I don't remember how you said it, but it was, like, the topic topic. 169 00:10:21,970 --> 00:10:25,090 Speaking topic. We need to talk more about this because how do you how do 170 00:10:25,090 --> 00:10:28,770 you pick just one? So most of the 171 00:10:28,770 --> 00:10:32,470 time, what I do with my clients is we have a primary 172 00:10:32,505 --> 00:10:35,645 one that you're going to speak on. So for me, it's sustainable marketing. 173 00:10:36,265 --> 00:10:40,025 But you may have some secondary speaking topics. I usually recommend a max of like 174 00:10:40,025 --> 00:10:43,785 three. You can do different angles though. So I may 175 00:10:43,785 --> 00:10:47,100 talk about creating your sustainable marketing system 176 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,320 from the lens of mindful marketing, where you're not trying to do all of the 177 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,920 things all the time, but I also might talk about it from the 178 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:58,675 angle of you're trying to hire a team member to 179 00:10:58,675 --> 00:11:02,435 do this. So how do you create a sustainable marketing system that 180 00:11:02,435 --> 00:11:05,875 you can pass off to a team member? So you're always making sure that you're 181 00:11:05,875 --> 00:11:09,315 customizing it to that audience and what they actually need to 182 00:11:09,315 --> 00:11:13,019 hear. And I also always recommend 183 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,839 to my clients that they think about it from the lens of what does 184 00:11:16,839 --> 00:11:20,680 your audience think they need? And then what do you know that they need? Because 185 00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:24,360 what they think they need is not going to be the same thing as what 186 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,745 you know they need. So my clients may think 187 00:11:27,745 --> 00:11:31,525 that they need to figure out how to create more marketing 188 00:11:31,665 --> 00:11:35,265 assets. And yeah, they need that. But what they really need is to 189 00:11:35,265 --> 00:11:38,865 create a foundation of material that becomes those marketing 190 00:11:38,865 --> 00:11:42,470 assets so they can have an evergreen library of marketing 191 00:11:42,770 --> 00:11:45,750 content, so they're not creating it from scratch all the time. 192 00:11:46,290 --> 00:11:50,050 So you may have one speaking topic, but you don't have to get bored with 193 00:11:50,050 --> 00:11:53,190 it. I tend to use the same type of topic 194 00:11:53,730 --> 00:11:57,335 for my clients when I'm putting together their podcast tours, but 195 00:11:57,555 --> 00:12:01,395 we customize it to every single podcast and you can change up 196 00:12:01,395 --> 00:12:05,154 the questions because like I said, the questions you're going to ask or 197 00:12:05,154 --> 00:12:08,515 you're going to get asked for mompreneurs is not going to be the same thing 198 00:12:08,515 --> 00:12:12,300 as for stay at home moms. So you can still get 199 00:12:12,300 --> 00:12:15,820 creative with your topic without diluting yourself by speaking 200 00:12:15,820 --> 00:12:19,200 about everything just because somebody asks you for it. 201 00:12:19,980 --> 00:12:23,740 Yeah, a %. And I what I like about what you said 202 00:12:23,740 --> 00:12:27,585 too is you have a focus, but then you can still 203 00:12:27,585 --> 00:12:31,265 customize it depending on who you're pitching and even, like, the shows that 204 00:12:31,265 --> 00:12:34,865 you show up for, which I love. Okay. So let's also talk 205 00:12:34,865 --> 00:12:38,705 about, summits and, speaking as 206 00:12:38,705 --> 00:12:42,350 well because I think that there's you talked about the two pieces. 207 00:12:42,350 --> 00:12:45,730 Like, we start with the podcast tour, then we go into the summit. 208 00:12:46,110 --> 00:12:49,170 Let's actually start there. Why do you recommend that strategy? 209 00:12:50,190 --> 00:12:53,970 It's really just about being able to be proactive. So a podcast is an ongoing 210 00:12:54,524 --> 00:12:57,345 content piece, like a content engine, essentially. 211 00:12:57,884 --> 00:13:01,404 So you can typically tell when a podcast is still 212 00:13:01,404 --> 00:13:05,245 active. They've been publishing regularly. Maybe they have seasons. And so you say, 213 00:13:05,245 --> 00:13:08,800 okay, I don't know when they're gonna start season four, but I'm gonna go 214 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:12,640 pitch them because they're wrapping up season three and just say, hey, I 215 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:16,480 know that you're wrapping up season three, but at least then 216 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,700 you know that they're coming back versus a summit. 217 00:13:20,274 --> 00:13:24,115 Some of them are recurring. Some people do a summit. It goes really well. 218 00:13:24,115 --> 00:13:27,635 They say, okay, this is a great lead generation, a great sales strategy. I'm going 219 00:13:27,635 --> 00:13:31,095 to keep doing it. But you don't always know. So 220 00:13:31,315 --> 00:13:34,950 typically, summits, from what I have found, are inbound invitations. 221 00:13:35,250 --> 00:13:39,090 They either have seen you on another summit, heard you on a podcast. Another 222 00:13:39,090 --> 00:13:42,530 reason why I start with podcast tours because a lot of hosts do go to 223 00:13:42,530 --> 00:13:46,130 podcasts to find their speakers. They may 224 00:13:46,130 --> 00:13:49,845 have asked friends or other speakers for recommendations. And 225 00:13:49,845 --> 00:13:53,204 because they know that you want to speak because you told 226 00:13:53,204 --> 00:13:56,964 them, then they're recommending you. So it's 227 00:13:56,964 --> 00:14:00,740 mainly just because podcasts are proactive outreach. Summits 228 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:04,560 are more passive inbound invites. So it's just a 229 00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:08,399 lot harder to get proactive with those summits because you don't know when they're 230 00:14:08,399 --> 00:14:12,000 coming. You don't know if they're coming back necessarily. And because 231 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,560 sometimes even if a host says, yeah, we're going to do it again next year, 232 00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:17,735 it doesn't always happen. So So that's just the main reason, honestly. 233 00:14:18,355 --> 00:14:21,795 Yeah. So how do you know if a summit is a good fit for you? 234 00:14:22,035 --> 00:14:25,795 Because so this is totally a selfish question, but I get a ton of 235 00:14:25,795 --> 00:14:28,754 invites out for a summit, now that I've been doing it for, like, years and 236 00:14:28,754 --> 00:14:32,520 years. And so sometimes it's hard to tell if it's gonna be 237 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:35,880 a good fit for me or not. So if someone's getting an invite to speak 238 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:39,320 on the summit, how can you tell if it's a good fit for you? That 239 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:43,160 is a great question. Summits can sometimes be hear or miss. 240 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,815 A lot of the time it is based on how well they've 241 00:14:46,815 --> 00:14:50,175 prepared, what speaker lineup they're getting. So if they 242 00:14:50,175 --> 00:14:54,015 are saying, Hey, these are the speakers that I have on and 243 00:14:54,015 --> 00:14:57,075 you take a look at them and the folks that they're highlighting 244 00:14:58,015 --> 00:15:01,839 are maybe not in the same niche as you. Like, you want 245 00:15:01,839 --> 00:15:05,600 them to be similar enough, but not so close that 246 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:09,140 they're overlapping, and they need to have the same audience. That is the main thing. 247 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,334 So if you work with online business owners 248 00:15:13,334 --> 00:15:16,695 and everybody else is working with brick and mortar business 249 00:15:16,695 --> 00:15:20,535 owners, probably not the greatest fit for you because you're not going to get in 250 00:15:20,535 --> 00:15:24,240 front of your ideal audience. And so so, honestly, 251 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,720 a lot of the time, what I look for is just what topic are they 252 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:30,160 pitching me for you. Maybe they're pitching you social media, and you're 253 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,920 like, did they actually take a look at what I'm doing right now? Because I'm 254 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,440 talking about mindful marketing, and that's I I can talk about it, but it's not 255 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,175 my focus. And if they don't mention it, it kinda makes me wonder if they 256 00:15:41,175 --> 00:15:45,015 did their homework. Also, if they're asking for a list size, I'm sure that 257 00:15:45,015 --> 00:15:48,695 you get that all the time where you need to have 5,000, 258 00:15:48,695 --> 00:15:52,529 seven thousand. Some people are even doing 10,000 email lists 259 00:15:52,529 --> 00:15:55,670 right now. Or if they're asking you to pay, that's another red flag. 260 00:15:56,290 --> 00:15:59,810 But, honestly, a lot of the time, if they have a speaker info page like 261 00:15:59,810 --> 00:16:03,570 our friend, Krista Miller, teaches over at Summit in a Box, you can tell 262 00:16:03,570 --> 00:16:07,095 pretty quickly if it's a well put together summit, if they have their 263 00:16:07,095 --> 00:16:10,855 systems in place. And that should give you enough information to tell if 264 00:16:10,855 --> 00:16:13,835 it's the right fit for your topic, for your audience. 265 00:16:14,375 --> 00:16:18,110 And just generally, if it's something that, you 266 00:16:18,110 --> 00:16:21,550 know, the timing's right and if they're asking too much for a 267 00:16:21,550 --> 00:16:24,910 promotion and that kind of thing, you just kinda have to gauge your 268 00:16:24,910 --> 00:16:28,290 availability and whether it's the right fit in terms of that. 269 00:16:28,750 --> 00:16:32,545 Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like there's so many different components to 270 00:16:32,545 --> 00:16:36,305 this too. Like, it it almost is like 271 00:16:36,305 --> 00:16:39,665 any anything, like, we're judging to see if it's a good fit. It's like there's 272 00:16:39,665 --> 00:16:43,209 there's complexities to it, but I always like organization. 273 00:16:43,350 --> 00:16:46,709 And anyone who uses Krista Miller's approach, I'm like, okay. Like, you 274 00:16:46,709 --> 00:16:50,170 instantly have bonus points because she's so freaking organized. 275 00:16:52,550 --> 00:16:56,245 Okay. So let let's say we're out here in these marketing 276 00:16:56,305 --> 00:17:00,144 streets. We're podcast guesting. We're speaking on summits. What are some of 277 00:17:00,144 --> 00:17:03,925 the the the metrics that we're looking for to indicate 278 00:17:03,985 --> 00:17:07,825 that, hey, this is working. This is successful. It's growing my business. Like, 279 00:17:07,825 --> 00:17:11,310 what numbers what what are we looking at to see if everything is working? 280 00:17:11,790 --> 00:17:15,570 Yeah. So honestly, that is one of the biggest things that 281 00:17:15,790 --> 00:17:19,630 I see people kind of go off the tracks with is 282 00:17:19,630 --> 00:17:23,310 they go into it saying, Oh, I'm going to get 150 leads 283 00:17:23,310 --> 00:17:26,734 from this, and I'm going to make a bunch of sales. And 284 00:17:27,115 --> 00:17:30,875 they actually just set the wrong goals and that's so they get 285 00:17:30,875 --> 00:17:34,235 disappointed when they get 25 286 00:17:34,235 --> 00:17:37,915 leads and don't make any sales immediately, but they 287 00:17:37,915 --> 00:17:41,630 don't realize, oh, this podcast positions me really well. And by 288 00:17:41,630 --> 00:17:44,670 being able to promote it and say, I was on this podcast, it's a stepping 289 00:17:44,670 --> 00:17:48,270 stone to getting onto other podcasts. Maybe the host knows 290 00:17:48,270 --> 00:17:51,330 people or the host is a summit host too. 291 00:17:51,710 --> 00:17:55,365 And so they might invite you back. So I always 292 00:17:55,365 --> 00:17:59,065 recommend my clients take a look at four different goals and 293 00:17:59,125 --> 00:18:02,805 decide if they're looking for leads, for sales, to build 294 00:18:02,805 --> 00:18:06,345 authority, or to make networking connections for collaborations 295 00:18:06,565 --> 00:18:09,785 and that kind of thing. Because if you're setting the wrong goals, 296 00:18:10,410 --> 00:18:14,190 it's going to backfire on you because you may be looking at the wrong metrics. 297 00:18:14,970 --> 00:18:18,810 So just understanding what you may be getting is 298 00:18:18,810 --> 00:18:22,590 honestly the biggest thing for knowing if it's working. 299 00:18:23,130 --> 00:18:26,835 So a podcast, for example, you may not get a ton 300 00:18:26,835 --> 00:18:30,675 immediately, but you may get a trickle down effect where over the 301 00:18:30,675 --> 00:18:34,515 years or maybe the weeks and months after it airs, people are still going 302 00:18:34,515 --> 00:18:38,355 back and listening and you're getting more leads and more 303 00:18:38,355 --> 00:18:42,040 sales that way. It also might be an audience that is 304 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,640 not quite ready to buy immediately. But if you have a good email nurture 305 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:49,160 sequence and you're engaging them really well after they get into 306 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,600 your audience, then they may end up converting to sales 307 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,275 then. So it's really hard to say exactly which 308 00:18:56,275 --> 00:18:59,875 metrics to pay the most attention to, but those goals 309 00:18:59,875 --> 00:19:03,635 also help you decide if something is the right fit. Because right now, maybe you 310 00:19:03,635 --> 00:19:07,470 need leads and sales just because you're in a growth phase for 311 00:19:07,470 --> 00:19:11,230 your business. Whereas other times, you may be looking more for that authority and those 312 00:19:11,230 --> 00:19:14,850 connections to then go out and do collaborations later on. 313 00:19:15,550 --> 00:19:19,070 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for me too, it's the relationship building 314 00:19:19,070 --> 00:19:22,525 piece. Like, I get to have conversations with people who would 315 00:19:22,525 --> 00:19:25,405 never, like, have the time of day to just, like, sit down and have a 316 00:19:25,405 --> 00:19:28,945 little chatty chat. So, that's what I love about podcasting 317 00:19:29,005 --> 00:19:32,809 too. Like, once it's done recording, you can always ask, like, who else, you know, 318 00:19:32,809 --> 00:19:35,610 can you connect me to or how else can I support you? And so I 319 00:19:35,610 --> 00:19:38,970 love that as a goal as well. So what about those those 320 00:19:38,970 --> 00:19:42,350 people who may be feeling a little bit 321 00:19:42,490 --> 00:19:46,195 intimidated by this idea of like public 322 00:19:46,195 --> 00:19:49,635 speaking, quote unquote, or where, you know, we're we're putting 323 00:19:49,635 --> 00:19:53,315 ourselves out there when we're guessing on podcasts. We're putting ourselves out there when 324 00:19:53,315 --> 00:19:56,915 we're when we're speaking on submits. How do we get over the nerves of it 325 00:19:56,915 --> 00:20:00,700 all? That is a great question. That is something 326 00:20:00,780 --> 00:20:04,620 so my husband is actually a public speaking coach and he teaches at, 327 00:20:04,620 --> 00:20:08,460 like, university level. So he's got an entire lesson on how 328 00:20:08,460 --> 00:20:12,000 to get confidence with public speaking. And 329 00:20:12,535 --> 00:20:15,975 one is just practice. Like even if you are just getting on the 330 00:20:15,975 --> 00:20:19,495 camera and recording yourself talking, even if it doesn't get 331 00:20:19,495 --> 00:20:23,335 published anywhere and then build yourself up to going live a couple of times for 332 00:20:23,335 --> 00:20:27,095 like two minutes, it doesn't have to be long. And there may be nobody who 333 00:20:27,095 --> 00:20:30,790 even shows up. But the other thing I love about doing podcast 334 00:20:30,790 --> 00:20:34,549 interviews is it feels way less intimidating because you're sitting 335 00:20:34,549 --> 00:20:38,309 here, I'm sitting just talking to Andrea. And so if, 336 00:20:38,549 --> 00:20:41,905 if it was something that kind of scared me, it's 337 00:20:41,905 --> 00:20:45,665 really low key. It's just a conversation with one other person 338 00:20:45,665 --> 00:20:49,425 and you can kind of forget that you're actually going 339 00:20:49,425 --> 00:20:53,105 and talking to a bunch of people. The other thing you can do 340 00:20:53,105 --> 00:20:56,650 is start going for podcasts that have a low 341 00:20:56,650 --> 00:20:59,770 audience. If you, if it still is in the back of your mind and you're 342 00:20:59,770 --> 00:21:03,530 sitting there going, okay, I know I'm just talking to Andrea, but there's gonna be 343 00:21:03,530 --> 00:21:07,130 hundreds of thousands of people listening. Just go on a smaller 344 00:21:07,130 --> 00:21:10,810 podcast to start with. And that way you can kind of work your way 345 00:21:10,810 --> 00:21:14,525 up And podcast downloads and that kind of thing 346 00:21:14,825 --> 00:21:18,285 can be a little hit or miss with how accurate the metrics are. 347 00:21:18,905 --> 00:21:22,665 But if you feel like it's a smaller audience, it's just a mind 348 00:21:22,665 --> 00:21:26,140 game. So that's one way. But really, it's just working 349 00:21:26,140 --> 00:21:29,980 yourself up, practicing. And, like, if you wanna pitch a really 350 00:21:29,980 --> 00:21:33,760 big podcast, don't start there. Start small and work your way up and 351 00:21:34,220 --> 00:21:37,840 just practice. Yeah. That's I love That's the biggest thing. 352 00:21:38,095 --> 00:21:41,775 This is why I like you know, when we're pitching podcasts too, going 353 00:21:41,775 --> 00:21:45,615 after the ones that are a little bit more attainable. Right? Like, not going after, 354 00:21:45,615 --> 00:21:49,295 like, the number one business podcast on, you know, Apple 355 00:21:49,295 --> 00:21:52,990 Podcasts. Going after one where maybe you do know the host so that 356 00:21:52,990 --> 00:21:56,110 could make you a little more comfortable or one that isn't as popular that can 357 00:21:56,110 --> 00:21:59,870 make you more comfortable. Plus you need to practice. It's a skill. 358 00:21:59,870 --> 00:22:03,710 Right? Like, I think I think there's this assumption, especially as 359 00:22:03,710 --> 00:22:06,695 adults. We just wanna show up and be good at everything. Right? We're like, we're 360 00:22:06,695 --> 00:22:09,575 just show up and, you know, we just do the thing, but it definitely takes 361 00:22:09,575 --> 00:22:13,415 time and practice. So I love that advice. I love it. You 362 00:22:13,415 --> 00:22:17,255 also mentioned earlier about this idea of well, your 363 00:22:17,255 --> 00:22:19,435 whole methodology is around being sustainable. 364 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,759 Content creator. And I'm seeing this now more than ever. There are so 365 00:22:27,759 --> 00:22:30,960 many business owners who are burnt out. There are so many content creators who are, 366 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,695 like, taking a break. What are your pieces of advice if 367 00:22:34,695 --> 00:22:38,135 we're, like, starting to put this this visibility ecosystem into 368 00:22:38,135 --> 00:22:41,575 place? How do we make sure that we're not gonna burn ourselves 369 00:22:41,575 --> 00:22:45,300 out? That is also a great question because it is 370 00:22:45,300 --> 00:22:48,500 so easy to be like, oh, we're going to just do a low lift and 371 00:22:48,500 --> 00:22:52,200 then it turns into a really big lift. So usually what I recommend 372 00:22:52,340 --> 00:22:55,700 is if I have a client who has been on podcasts in the 373 00:22:55,700 --> 00:22:59,405 past, we'll start by going to those podcasts first. We'll pull them 374 00:22:59,405 --> 00:23:02,545 into a tool like Cast Magic and 375 00:23:03,085 --> 00:23:06,845 pull out all of the different pieces that we can use for social 376 00:23:06,845 --> 00:23:10,410 media. When I'm doing it for a retainer client, I will 377 00:23:10,650 --> 00:23:14,350 focus on getting at least nine to 12 different pieces of content. 378 00:23:14,650 --> 00:23:18,330 It's like three carousel posts, three quote posts, three short 379 00:23:18,330 --> 00:23:21,850 form videos, that kind of thing. Maybe some longer form 380 00:23:21,850 --> 00:23:25,615 content for blogs or emails or LinkedIn, and 381 00:23:25,615 --> 00:23:29,315 then turning that into evergreen content so they can immediately 382 00:23:29,375 --> 00:23:32,815 start posting those and just rotate out which podcasts they're talking 383 00:23:32,815 --> 00:23:36,495 about. So maybe they have five of them they talk about in one month and 384 00:23:36,495 --> 00:23:40,255 then they rotate onto the next set. And so that way you start 385 00:23:40,255 --> 00:23:44,070 building up that content database 386 00:23:44,070 --> 00:23:47,450 essentially. And so we built that into their visibility 387 00:23:47,590 --> 00:23:51,429 ecosystem hub so that anytime there's something going, oh, shoot, I didn't get a 388 00:23:51,429 --> 00:23:55,210 post ready. You can just go in, grab something that you haven't posted 389 00:23:55,429 --> 00:23:59,245 in six months. No one's going to notice. Or at least if they do, 390 00:23:59,245 --> 00:24:03,005 they're probably not going to care. And so that way you can keep 391 00:24:03,005 --> 00:24:06,365 it really low lift. You create it once and you can keep using it for 392 00:24:06,365 --> 00:24:09,505 years to come. If you're going on 20 podcasts a year, 393 00:24:10,125 --> 00:24:13,790 that is what, almost 200 pieces of content 394 00:24:13,790 --> 00:24:17,390 probably that you can pull out from that. That 200 395 00:24:17,390 --> 00:24:20,930 pieces of content is almost a year's worth of daily posts. 396 00:24:21,550 --> 00:24:25,310 You can easily go and feel your content marketing system for years just by 397 00:24:25,310 --> 00:24:29,135 doing a quarterly podcast tour, Super low lift, and 398 00:24:29,274 --> 00:24:33,115 you don't have to go too crazy with it. Yes. Use the 399 00:24:33,115 --> 00:24:36,894 content you already have. I feel like that should be my mantra 400 00:24:37,034 --> 00:24:40,255 going forward because I think this is where 401 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,800 business owners try to get too fancy is that we just 402 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,640 think, oh, we said it already. But I promise you, you 403 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,160 need to say it again, and I promise you, your people need to hear it 404 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,895 again. So, like, reuse that content. And then, also, if you're 405 00:24:55,895 --> 00:24:59,575 doing the podcast tours and the summits right, there are new 406 00:24:59,575 --> 00:25:03,335 people coming in who haven't heard you say it yet, so use it again and 407 00:25:03,335 --> 00:25:07,095 again. Yes. I love this so much. Okay. Do you have 408 00:25:07,095 --> 00:25:10,659 an example of this kind of like ecosystem working 409 00:25:10,659 --> 00:25:14,340 well? I wanna hear about either you or a client of 410 00:25:14,340 --> 00:25:18,179 yours who had like a success moment from all 411 00:25:18,179 --> 00:25:21,799 of this beautiful strategy. Yeah. So 412 00:25:22,024 --> 00:25:25,404 I'm, I'm kind of the worst at doing it for myself because 413 00:25:25,705 --> 00:25:29,544 I'm sitting there doing it for clients. But yeah, we 414 00:25:29,544 --> 00:25:33,384 just started offering the No fuss podcast tours last year. So like twenty 415 00:25:33,384 --> 00:25:37,225 end of twenty twenty four. So we're still kind of gathering the data on that, 416 00:25:37,225 --> 00:25:40,480 but I've I've seen clients get 25 to 417 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,080 50% acceptance rates from their podcast tour 418 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,920 pitches. And as they start doing that, they're able to 419 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,220 go and create that content bank. And 420 00:25:51,775 --> 00:25:55,535 so when I do it, one, it goes and it builds that 421 00:25:55,535 --> 00:25:59,054 relationship with the host. So honestly, a lot of the 422 00:25:59,054 --> 00:26:02,275 time, podcast guests don't share their content. 423 00:26:02,735 --> 00:26:05,795 But when they get swipe copy and swipe graphics, 424 00:26:06,540 --> 00:26:10,380 they just kinda go, okay. Thanks. And then probably honestly forget 425 00:26:10,380 --> 00:26:14,220 to post it. Like, most of us have the best intentions. We mean to, but 426 00:26:14,220 --> 00:26:17,920 we don't actually do it. So that's why I've got my visibility ecosystem 427 00:26:17,980 --> 00:26:21,360 hub that anytime I get a new podcast guest appearance, 428 00:26:21,815 --> 00:26:24,775 I put it in there, make sure to share it during that week where it 429 00:26:24,775 --> 00:26:27,895 airs to give it a boost. But then I go back and do it again, 430 00:26:27,895 --> 00:26:31,255 and I make sure I'm tagging the host in the post because 431 00:26:31,255 --> 00:26:35,095 then they can go and reshare that if they want to because it gives them 432 00:26:35,095 --> 00:26:38,830 a signal boost. So honestly, that's one of my 433 00:26:38,830 --> 00:26:42,350 my favorite things that comes out of when I share my 434 00:26:42,350 --> 00:26:46,110 content on an evergreen basis is it builds that 435 00:26:46,110 --> 00:26:49,870 relationship with the host and it builds into somebody else's business. Because like you 436 00:26:49,870 --> 00:26:53,525 said, relationships are so key. And 437 00:26:53,745 --> 00:26:57,265 I wanna make sure that I'm I'm not just ghosting the 438 00:26:57,265 --> 00:27:00,945 podcast host who I work with. Because if if I'm doing this 439 00:27:00,945 --> 00:27:04,645 and sharing it, they're more likely to go and 440 00:27:04,705 --> 00:27:08,549 refer me back to other summits and podcasts and just remember 441 00:27:08,549 --> 00:27:11,850 me if they have a collaboration opportunity coming up. So it's a win win. 442 00:27:12,710 --> 00:27:16,470 Yes. I love this. Like, I think that this, this 443 00:27:16,470 --> 00:27:20,309 just goes into like, be a good person. Like be, be a good, be a 444 00:27:20,309 --> 00:27:23,725 good collaborator and more collaborations will come your way. I love 445 00:27:23,725 --> 00:27:27,485 it. Okay. So as we wrap up, I know that 446 00:27:27,485 --> 00:27:31,245 you have this questions generator. I've tried it, but my 447 00:27:31,245 --> 00:27:35,005 dear listeners do not know about it just yet. Give us all of 448 00:27:35,005 --> 00:27:38,544 the details about this questions generator that you have. 449 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,920 So this is part of a suite of apps, like 450 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,440 we're calling them apps. It's essentially just little mini tools that we are 451 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:50,040 creating for speakers. So this is the first one that we've gotten to release 452 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,880 publicly and it is, it's really fun because 453 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,465 it's super duper easy to use. You literally just plug 454 00:27:57,465 --> 00:28:01,145 in your speaking topic and a little bit of 455 00:28:01,145 --> 00:28:04,265 info about the podcast that you're speaking on. If you want to, you don't even 456 00:28:04,265 --> 00:28:07,885 have to, and it will automatically generate 10 customized 457 00:28:07,945 --> 00:28:11,390 questions that the podcast host can ask you. So when we 458 00:28:11,390 --> 00:28:15,090 were developing this, my co developer plugged in. 459 00:28:15,150 --> 00:28:18,750 I think it was literally, bees are awesome. It was, like, three or four 460 00:28:18,750 --> 00:28:22,350 words, and it came up with 10 podcast interview 461 00:28:22,350 --> 00:28:26,195 questions that we were kind of blown away by. It told a story. 462 00:28:26,575 --> 00:28:30,415 It really dug into some questions that they might not 463 00:28:30,415 --> 00:28:34,255 have thought to ask otherwise. So the way that I use 464 00:28:34,255 --> 00:28:37,710 this is I use it myself when I am going and 465 00:28:37,710 --> 00:28:41,230 creating no fuss podcast tours because in our pitch emails, we 466 00:28:41,230 --> 00:28:44,830 include two to three questions that the host could ask. It 467 00:28:44,830 --> 00:28:48,590 shows one, that you've customized it to their audience. And so it's 468 00:28:48,590 --> 00:28:51,985 really highly relevant. You've done your homework and 469 00:28:51,985 --> 00:28:55,825 two, it makes it low lift for the host. And if they want more questions 470 00:28:55,825 --> 00:28:59,585 they can ask you. So having those 10 questions is really, 471 00:28:59,585 --> 00:29:03,345 really helpful. But also if you're not just guesting on podcasts, you're 472 00:29:03,345 --> 00:29:06,840 also hosting, you can use this for your own podcast interviews. If you're 473 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:10,600 like, okay, I want something that maybe they haven't been asked before, you 474 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,220 can just plug in the guest topic into the interview questions generator 475 00:29:14,279 --> 00:29:17,500 and get 10 questions that you can ask them on your own podcast. So 476 00:29:17,755 --> 00:29:21,054 it's really multi use, and I've been having a lot of fun with it. 477 00:29:21,595 --> 00:29:24,895 Yes. Use this tool, especially if you're, 478 00:29:25,034 --> 00:29:28,554 like, you're having that struggle where you're staring at the blinking 479 00:29:28,554 --> 00:29:32,235 cursor inside of your Google Doc, and you're like, what what am I even 480 00:29:32,235 --> 00:29:35,570 talking about right now? Like, use the tools to help you get there. I love 481 00:29:35,570 --> 00:29:37,509 this. So I'm gonna put the link in the show notes, 482 00:29:37,730 --> 00:29:41,490 onlinejoy.com/34four. Where else can people 483 00:29:41,490 --> 00:29:45,190 connect with you, Jen? Yeah. You can go ahead and find me at visibility 484 00:29:45,409 --> 00:29:49,095 ecosystem. So visibilityecosystem.com, and I'm pretty 485 00:29:49,095 --> 00:29:51,995 much exclusively on threads right now at Visibility Ecosystem. 486 00:29:52,695 --> 00:29:56,535 Hopefully getting into, like, LinkedIn soon because I'm kind of done 487 00:29:56,535 --> 00:30:00,375 with Instagram. But You're 488 00:30:00,375 --> 00:30:03,915 not the only one. So I will put all of Jen's links 489 00:30:04,270 --> 00:30:07,809 in the show notes, onlinedrea.com/340four. 490 00:30:07,950 --> 00:30:10,830 Jen, thank you so much for being on the show today. Thank you so much 491 00:30:10,830 --> 00:30:14,510 for having me, Andrea. This was fun. Yay. And thank you, dear listener, for 492 00:30:14,510 --> 00:30:18,304 tuning into another episode of the Mindful Marketing Podcast coming 493 00:30:18,304 --> 00:30:21,825 up next in the Mindful Marketing Lab. If you have not joined us yet, please 494 00:30:21,825 --> 00:30:25,505 come on in. Jen's in there. We're having a lot of fun. We're learning all 495 00:30:25,505 --> 00:30:29,105 about marketing. And this, month, we're continuing our 496 00:30:29,105 --> 00:30:32,880 LinkedIn training with two very special trainings. We have a 497 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,559 LinkedIn advanced training and a q and a session, which is right after 498 00:30:36,559 --> 00:30:40,159 this episode. So if you're listening to this on February 11, it's coming out February 499 00:30:40,159 --> 00:30:43,840 12, so you still have time to join. And then we're also doing an advanced 500 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,345 LinkedIn ads training with the amazing Julia O'Hare. If you 501 00:30:47,345 --> 00:30:51,025 are also done with Instagram, this all of this is 502 00:30:51,025 --> 00:30:54,705 for you, so come on in. The water's warm. You can find that link in 503 00:30:54,705 --> 00:30:58,225 the show notes or on my website. Stay tuned. We have more episodes coming out 504 00:30:58,225 --> 00:31:01,130 soon. I will see you next Tuesday. Bye for now.