WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:04.019 Do you ever have a moment where you make a mistake and you want to 2 00:00:04.480 --> 00:00:08.080 clear the air or you want to share your story so other 3 00:00:08.080 --> 00:00:11.915 people can learn from it? Well, today's episode is just like that. I 4 00:00:11.915 --> 00:00:15.594 have Megan Griffith back on the call. She was here 5 00:00:15.594 --> 00:00:19.259 last week, but that episode was recorded 6 6 00:00:19.259 --> 00:00:23.019 months ago, when I was just barely pregnant with my little. And 7 00:00:23.019 --> 00:00:26.545 now that I am, let's see, 8 weeks postpartum at this 8 00:00:26.545 --> 00:00:30.225 point of the episode going live, we wanna clear the air and 9 00:00:30.225 --> 00:00:33.285 kinda give a follow-up, a part 2, if you will, to that episode. 10 00:00:39.690 --> 00:00:43.265 You're listening to the Mindful Marketing Podcast. I'm Andrea 11 00:00:44.725 --> 00:00:48.365 Jones. Before we get into it, this episode 12 00:00:48.365 --> 00:00:52.020 is sponsored by Riverside, which is the all in one podcasting tool 13 00:00:52.100 --> 00:00:55.540 we now use for our show and y'all, they feel super 14 00:00:55.540 --> 00:00:59.000 luxurious. Riverside is the all in one podcasting 15 00:00:59.380 --> 00:01:03.085 and video recording tool that gives you studio quality recordings 16 00:01:03.385 --> 00:01:06.825 and lightning fast editing right inside your browser. And, y'all, it's 17 00:01:06.825 --> 00:01:10.490 super intuitive and easy to use. Once your recording is 18 00:01:10.490 --> 00:01:14.250 done, you'll be able to automatically download separate audio and 19 00:01:14.250 --> 00:01:17.850 video tracks and edit it all within a few clicks. It's really very 20 00:01:17.850 --> 00:01:21.695 easy. So head over to Riverside and you'll get 21 00:01:21.695 --> 00:01:25.395 15% off. That's 15% off using my code Drea, 22 00:01:25.455 --> 00:01:29.119 d r e a, at checkout. But y'all, it's free to get started. So click 23 00:01:29.119 --> 00:01:31.460 the link in the show notes and get started today. 24 00:01:32.960 --> 00:01:36.585 So Meg, Meaghan, welcome back. I'm excited to 25 00:01:36.585 --> 00:01:38.900 have you back. I'm excited to be back. Thank you. Yes. And thank you for 26 00:01:38.900 --> 00:01:41.005 reaching out and saying, hey, so update. So, 27 00:01:45.420 --> 00:01:48.940 let's let's start at the beginning. Like, rewind 6 months 28 00:01:48.940 --> 00:01:52.720 ago, what happened? Okay. Absolutely. So, 29 00:01:53.145 --> 00:01:56.505 basically, my name is Megan Griffith. I was 30 00:01:56.505 --> 00:02:00.185 creating on TikTok for about 3 years, and TikTok was my 31 00:02:00.185 --> 00:02:03.720 main platform as a business owner. And I grew that platform to 32 00:02:03.720 --> 00:02:07.480 over 300,000 followers. I really loved TikTok. I was 33 00:02:07.480 --> 00:02:11.260 making 3 TikToks a day, almost every day, including weekends because 34 00:02:11.400 --> 00:02:14.694 it's fun to me. Like, short form video is very 35 00:02:15.155 --> 00:02:18.915 entertaining, but it can also be informative and, like, I just I enjoy it. And 36 00:02:18.915 --> 00:02:22.250 so I really that was my thing. 37 00:02:22.650 --> 00:02:26.250 And then I think I think a lot of 38 00:02:26.250 --> 00:02:29.470 things came together to create a lot of problems. 39 00:02:31.025 --> 00:02:34.865 And basically what happened is I made 2 mistakes and I made 40 00:02:34.865 --> 00:02:38.465 them back to back, which led people to the conclusion that these were not 41 00:02:38.465 --> 00:02:42.210 like, you know, bad things that a good person 42 00:02:42.210 --> 00:02:45.650 was doing on accident, but rather bad things that a bad person was doing 43 00:02:45.650 --> 00:02:49.405 intentionally, which was hurtful, 44 00:02:49.545 --> 00:02:53.385 but also understandable, I think. So the first thing was I led a 45 00:02:53.385 --> 00:02:57.130 discussion that I was not qualified to lead at all. So I 46 00:02:57.130 --> 00:03:00.970 create content primarily around neurodivergence, but especially around autism 47 00:03:00.970 --> 00:03:04.455 and ADHD because those are my diagnoses. And 48 00:03:04.455 --> 00:03:08.215 I started talking about whether autism was a disorder or 49 00:03:08.215 --> 00:03:11.815 a disability. And I have very firm opinions on this, but I did not 50 00:03:11.815 --> 00:03:15.530 present these TikToks as my opinion. I presented them as facts 51 00:03:15.530 --> 00:03:19.150 and people who disagreed with me were, like, kinda stupid, which 52 00:03:19.290 --> 00:03:23.135 looking back is just embarrassing, and really rude. I 53 00:03:23.135 --> 00:03:26.975 was very condescending and I really dismissed people who in the 54 00:03:26.975 --> 00:03:30.580 autistic community are already constantly dismissed. I 55 00:03:30.720 --> 00:03:34.560 piled on to people who were already, like, systemically silenced, 56 00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:37.920 people with higher support needs, people autistic people of color, like, 57 00:03:37.920 --> 00:03:41.705 just people really disagreed with me and I didn't take it well. 58 00:03:41.705 --> 00:03:45.385 I didn't handle it well at all. I didn't handle it gracefully and I definitely 59 00:03:45.385 --> 00:03:48.910 didn't handle it with, grace for anyone else. Yeah. 60 00:03:48.910 --> 00:03:52.430 So at what what point in the timeline is this? So I know we we 61 00:03:52.430 --> 00:03:55.730 have, like, a a 6, 7 month gap from when we last recorded. 62 00:03:56.165 --> 00:03:59.065 Like, what month did this happen in? I think January. 63 00:03:59.765 --> 00:04:03.385 Okay. So earlier this year. Mhmm. And so you recorded the video, 64 00:04:03.525 --> 00:04:06.739 and then the pitchforks came out. And then you responded 65 00:04:08.239 --> 00:04:11.280 like, what you said you responded, like, in a not great way. Give me an 66 00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:15.125 example of what that was. Well, I responded in 67 00:04:15.125 --> 00:04:18.964 the comments to some people basically saying, like because a lot of the 68 00:04:18.964 --> 00:04:22.645 pushback was saying that we need autism to be classified as a disorder in 69 00:04:22.645 --> 00:04:26.020 order to get the supports that we need, and we have higher support needs than 70 00:04:26.020 --> 00:04:29.860 you. And so we understand this better than you do, so you should listen. And 71 00:04:29.860 --> 00:04:33.555 I basically said something along the lines of, like, we need to think bigger 72 00:04:33.555 --> 00:04:36.854 than that. Like, I understand the, like, literal 73 00:04:37.155 --> 00:04:40.759 systemic issues right now, but, like, I'm talking 74 00:04:40.819 --> 00:04:44.500 more philosophically and people are, like, with respect, fuck 75 00:04:44.500 --> 00:04:48.180 your philosophy. This is my life. And, like Yeah. I didn't 76 00:04:48.180 --> 00:04:52.005 listen to that. Yeah. I think it's hard 77 00:04:52.005 --> 00:04:55.765 to not only to, number 78 00:04:55.765 --> 00:04:59.050 1, put yourself out there online, but then to get the feedback from people. And 79 00:04:59.050 --> 00:05:02.669 then to be so self aware that you could now, 80 00:05:02.889 --> 00:05:06.650 at 5, 6 months later, look back and go, oh, the way that I 81 00:05:06.650 --> 00:05:10.445 respond to that, you know, maybe that that wasn't the best. Right? Like, I 82 00:05:10.445 --> 00:05:14.285 definitely see my errors. Like like, how long did it take 83 00:05:14.285 --> 00:05:18.020 you to to go from here's my response to, oh, I did 84 00:05:18.020 --> 00:05:21.860 not handle that very well at all? Well, it took me probably 85 00:05:21.860 --> 00:05:25.474 a couple of days of just constant comments, a couple of 86 00:05:25.474 --> 00:05:28.995 video replies, like people really being 87 00:05:28.995 --> 00:05:31.815 upset. It took me a couple of days to be like, okay, this, 88 00:05:32.660 --> 00:05:36.500 I'm not sure how I feel, but clearly I need to apologize for 89 00:05:36.500 --> 00:05:40.280 this. And that's kind of the bent I took, which again is embarrassing. 90 00:05:40.765 --> 00:05:44.445 It wasn't a realization I had done something wrong. It was a realization that people 91 00:05:44.445 --> 00:05:47.965 thought I was wrong, and I should probably apologize in order to at least make 92 00:05:47.965 --> 00:05:51.480 other people feel seen and heard, but not because I thought they were 93 00:05:51.480 --> 00:05:55.240 right. And I think that is a really common white lady 94 00:05:55.240 --> 00:05:59.045 thing. We apologize so that we look good and we apologize so 95 00:05:59.045 --> 00:06:01.605 that we look like we're doing the right thing. And I do think I fell 96 00:06:01.605 --> 00:06:05.205 into that, which sucks. It took me probably another 97 00:06:05.205 --> 00:06:09.010 month or 2. It took the second mistake, I think, for me 98 00:06:09.010 --> 00:06:12.470 to realize, okay, these people 99 00:06:12.610 --> 00:06:15.985 are correct, and I need to 100 00:06:15.985 --> 00:06:19.425 actually apologize. Yeah. Do you think 101 00:06:19.425 --> 00:06:23.260 that do you think that the Internet I feel like this is such 102 00:06:23.260 --> 00:06:27.040 a big question. But I think sometimes the Internet psyche, 103 00:06:27.100 --> 00:06:30.615 like, where we are, is we feel obligated 104 00:06:30.835 --> 00:06:34.435 to speak on things immediately because our silence will then 105 00:06:34.435 --> 00:06:38.275 start speaking for us if we don't. Did you feel that in the 106 00:06:38.275 --> 00:06:42.020 moment? I think so. I felt some 107 00:06:42.020 --> 00:06:45.780 of that, like, pressure to respond, but I think 108 00:06:45.780 --> 00:06:49.255 I created the problem for myself. I don't think it was pressure other people put 109 00:06:49.255 --> 00:06:52.715 on me. I think by responding so poorly and so condescendingly, 110 00:06:54.135 --> 00:06:57.690 I created like, okay, now you really have to apologize 111 00:06:57.830 --> 00:07:01.510 because you were a jerk. And so I do 112 00:07:01.510 --> 00:07:04.950 think that was sort of a mess of my own making. I wouldn't necessarily blame 113 00:07:04.950 --> 00:07:08.604 the in this particular case, but I do think that what you're talking about, 114 00:07:08.604 --> 00:07:12.285 like, at large is totally a problem. Like, creators are 115 00:07:12.285 --> 00:07:16.050 expected to constantly be in the know right away, responding 116 00:07:16.110 --> 00:07:19.330 right away, and that, like, this urgency culture is, like, 117 00:07:20.110 --> 00:07:23.725 not super helpful, I think. Now I think long term silence 118 00:07:23.865 --> 00:07:27.625 on important issues is a different thing. But, like, if it happened 119 00:07:27.625 --> 00:07:31.270 2 days ago, like, give people a minute to breathe maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 120 00:07:31.270 --> 00:07:35.030 Because this is a matter of days, which I don't like, I don't I 121 00:07:35.030 --> 00:07:38.595 could not hit. I would be a hot mess. Like, if anyone says anything 122 00:07:38.595 --> 00:07:41.255 mean to me, I would be in bed crying. Like, 123 00:07:42.515 --> 00:07:46.080 so so over the course of a few days, you create this 124 00:07:46.080 --> 00:07:49.919 video, you get the feedback, you handle it poorly, then what 125 00:07:49.919 --> 00:07:53.555 happens? Then I apologized. A lot of 126 00:07:53.555 --> 00:07:57.395 people said my apology was insincere. I think my apology 127 00:07:57.395 --> 00:08:00.514 was as sincere as it could be, but I think they might have been a 128 00:08:00.514 --> 00:08:04.120 little bit right. I think maybe I just 129 00:08:04.980 --> 00:08:08.820 didn't want people to be mad at me. And that's not a good reason to 130 00:08:08.820 --> 00:08:12.465 apologize, and that apology doesn't feel very sincere. So I think maybe those 131 00:08:12.465 --> 00:08:15.025 people were right. At the time, I really resented them. I was like, what more 132 00:08:15.025 --> 00:08:18.625 do you want me to do? Like, I did what you wanted, but that's 133 00:08:18.625 --> 00:08:21.970 exactly the point. Right? I just did what they wanted. I didn't 134 00:08:22.370 --> 00:08:25.750 reflect and, like, think about my actions. And 135 00:08:26.210 --> 00:08:29.910 so I think those people were right on, you know, which is hard. 136 00:08:30.525 --> 00:08:34.365 But, so that happened. And then I think it was maybe a 137 00:08:34.365 --> 00:08:38.205 week or 2 weeks later, I woke up at 6 AM and did not 138 00:08:38.205 --> 00:08:41.720 have this idea. But by 6 pm, I had a fully 139 00:08:41.720 --> 00:08:45.080 fleshed neurodivergent coach course 140 00:08:45.080 --> 00:08:48.845 certification ready to go and I was promoting it and I had 141 00:08:48.845 --> 00:08:52.605 sales by like 6 pm. So So this is 142 00:08:52.605 --> 00:08:56.440 a month after Yeah. The video. Okay. Not a 143 00:08:56.440 --> 00:08:59.000 month. I think it was, like, maybe a week or 2. It wasn't a full 144 00:08:59.000 --> 00:09:02.654 month for sure. So it was pretty close back to back. Yeah. I 145 00:09:02.654 --> 00:09:06.495 had this idea. Somebody asked me, you know, how did you become a coach? 146 00:09:06.495 --> 00:09:09.795 And I was like, it's really, like, not super 147 00:09:09.855 --> 00:09:13.350 duper complicated the way that I became a coach anyway. Like, 148 00:09:13.810 --> 00:09:17.330 I could teach people this. And so I was like, I'll just put 149 00:09:17.330 --> 00:09:21.165 together a course and I'll have, like, an optional add on to do coaching with 150 00:09:21.165 --> 00:09:24.625 me so I can like coach people through the process. And it felt 151 00:09:25.325 --> 00:09:28.785 very much like, looking back, it was very much an ADHD, 152 00:09:29.720 --> 00:09:33.320 like hyper focus thing. I just got the idea and I just got 153 00:09:33.320 --> 00:09:37.045 sunk into it. And I didn't look up 154 00:09:37.204 --> 00:09:40.904 until it was way too late. And there were 155 00:09:42.084 --> 00:09:45.865 100 of videos on TikTok about me, 156 00:09:46.560 --> 00:09:50.319 hundreds of videos. Basically 157 00:09:50.319 --> 00:09:54.079 saying I was a charlatan, I was a snake oil salesman, I was a pyramid 158 00:09:54.079 --> 00:09:57.745 scheme. I was abusing the disabled community by 159 00:09:58.205 --> 00:10:01.725 charging the money to do what I do, which is just, you know, 160 00:10:01.725 --> 00:10:05.010 bullshit. Basically, everybody was saying coaching is nonsense. And 161 00:10:05.950 --> 00:10:09.390 it this one was hard, because I feel like some of the 162 00:10:09.390 --> 00:10:12.865 feedback was valid, and some of it wasn't. And so I had to kind of 163 00:10:12.865 --> 00:10:16.545 sift through that a little bit. Because 164 00:10:16.545 --> 00:10:20.225 okay, here were people's main complaints. Let me go over that. Main 165 00:10:20.225 --> 00:10:24.050 complaint number 1 was the use of the term neurodivergent life 166 00:10:24.050 --> 00:10:27.810 coach because the term neurodivergent is a 167 00:10:27.810 --> 00:10:31.295 very broad term. It is meant to be as inclusive as possible. So it 168 00:10:31.295 --> 00:10:34.895 includes everything from ADHD and autism to Alzheimer's, to 169 00:10:34.895 --> 00:10:38.655 epilepsy, to tic disorders. I am not qualified to 170 00:10:38.655 --> 00:10:42.500 work with people with Alzheimer's at all. And so the idea that I 171 00:10:42.500 --> 00:10:46.260 could teach someone, what if they wanted to be a neurodivergent coach in the 172 00:10:46.260 --> 00:10:50.005 realm of Tourette's? I couldn't teach them anything. And so 173 00:10:50.005 --> 00:10:53.785 that language and this is a very common problem in the neurodivergent 174 00:10:54.005 --> 00:10:57.225 community. We tend language is fuzzy 175 00:10:57.889 --> 00:11:01.649 and a lot of people, myself included, have misused it in a way 176 00:11:01.649 --> 00:11:05.385 that leads it to be even fuzzier, like, needlessly. So 177 00:11:05.385 --> 00:11:08.845 that was problem number 1. Problem number 2 was my use of the word certification. 178 00:11:10.985 --> 00:11:14.730 Life coaching is an unregulated industry, which means it was perfectly legal for 179 00:11:14.730 --> 00:11:18.329 me to call it a certification. But the question was, was it ethical? And I 180 00:11:18.329 --> 00:11:21.775 think the answer is probably no. Because I'm I don't 181 00:11:21.855 --> 00:11:25.535 have a coaching certification from the International Federation of Coaching, the 182 00:11:25.535 --> 00:11:29.150 IFS. I don't. And I'm not part of the IFS, 183 00:11:29.310 --> 00:11:32.510 which granted they're not a regulatory body, but they are kind of the bigwig, you 184 00:11:32.510 --> 00:11:36.210 know? Yeah. When you see certification, I think most people assume 185 00:11:36.865 --> 00:11:40.705 it's IFS certified and I wasn't. And this program I was 186 00:11:40.705 --> 00:11:44.225 creating wasn't. And so that was really misleading and 187 00:11:44.225 --> 00:11:48.010 was a bad choice. So I think those were 2 of 188 00:11:48.010 --> 00:11:51.050 the main issues. I think if we're gonna go with a 3rd issue, people just 189 00:11:51.050 --> 00:11:54.490 didn't like the idea of life coaches at all. And Yeah. That's the one I 190 00:11:54.490 --> 00:11:58.335 kinda had to sift through. Yeah. And it's at 191 00:11:58.335 --> 00:12:01.695 a time too where the life coaching industry is getting a 192 00:12:01.695 --> 00:12:05.470 giant magnifying glass, on it. I know 193 00:12:05.470 --> 00:12:09.310 that because a lot of my clients are life coaches. And so you 194 00:12:09.310 --> 00:12:12.750 have this perfect storm of you've got negative 195 00:12:12.750 --> 00:12:15.875 attention from situation mistake number 1, which is, 196 00:12:16.815 --> 00:12:20.495 in and of itself already a challenge, and then you amplified it 197 00:12:20.495 --> 00:12:23.899 by launching this core certification. So 198 00:12:25.399 --> 00:12:29.240 with these hundreds of videos coming out the same time that you have the 199 00:12:29.240 --> 00:12:32.915 certification coming out, what did you do? Did you move forward with it, 200 00:12:32.915 --> 00:12:36.675 or or what what were your next steps? I think 201 00:12:36.675 --> 00:12:39.635 I saw a couple of the comments. I saw a couple of the videos, and 202 00:12:39.635 --> 00:12:43.450 I thought this is gonna blow over because you can't do 203 00:12:43.450 --> 00:12:46.890 anything on the internet without someone being mad at you. So you can't 204 00:12:46.890 --> 00:12:49.790 listen to every person who's upset. 205 00:12:51.535 --> 00:12:54.975 And then people I knew people who 206 00:12:54.975 --> 00:12:58.755 had direct access to me through email, through messenger, 207 00:12:59.135 --> 00:13:02.800 through all kinds of stuff. They were choosing not to message 208 00:13:02.800 --> 00:13:06.640 me, and they were making videos about me instead. And I think that 209 00:13:06.640 --> 00:13:10.385 was like the wake up call. It was like, Oh, I have offended these people 210 00:13:10.385 --> 00:13:14.065 so deeply. I have done something so wrong, that 211 00:13:14.065 --> 00:13:17.860 they felt they couldn't even talk to me about it. 212 00:13:18.640 --> 00:13:22.260 And that was the moment where I was like, Okay, did I mess up? 213 00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:26.194 And then I started really listening to what people were saying. 214 00:13:26.334 --> 00:13:28.995 And it started to make a lot of sense. 215 00:13:30.630 --> 00:13:34.149 And so what I did is I took the sales page down, took everything down, 216 00:13:34.149 --> 00:13:37.769 I refunded everyone who had bought it with a sincere apology email. 217 00:13:39.264 --> 00:13:42.464 I sent an email out to my list because I had sent an email out 218 00:13:42.464 --> 00:13:46.305 advertising the course. I sent another email out saying I was no longer offering 219 00:13:46.305 --> 00:13:49.750 it, that it was a mistake to offer it, that I was was sorry for 220 00:13:50.290 --> 00:13:53.990 the language issues and also sorry for the entire 221 00:13:54.050 --> 00:13:57.785 concept of like, you know, being 222 00:13:57.785 --> 00:14:01.545 able to teach someone to work with all forms of neurodivergence and all of 223 00:14:01.545 --> 00:14:04.765 that. So, and I got a wide variety of replies. 224 00:14:05.650 --> 00:14:09.430 Some people were like, yeah, this was a major screw up. Like, I'm please unsubscribe 225 00:14:09.490 --> 00:14:13.165 me. Other people were like, no, 226 00:14:13.225 --> 00:14:16.105 I really want the course. Like, I don't care. Let me buy it. And I 227 00:14:16.105 --> 00:14:19.625 had to tell them no because I have to be like consistent and ethical in 228 00:14:19.625 --> 00:14:22.590 how I'm doing this. And then I had other people who were like, you know, 229 00:14:22.590 --> 00:14:26.030 this kind of rubbed me the wrong way, but I'm really glad you apologized. So 230 00:14:26.030 --> 00:14:29.550 I got a whole host of responses via email, but it seemed 231 00:14:29.550 --> 00:14:33.375 like TikTok primarily was it it 232 00:14:33.375 --> 00:14:37.135 was kinda over for me there. Yeah. Over how? Like, 233 00:14:37.135 --> 00:14:40.970 you're done with the platform? Yeah. I haven't created on there 234 00:14:41.029 --> 00:14:44.870 too much since. I created an apology video where I basically 235 00:14:44.870 --> 00:14:48.524 said, hey, I've made a lot of mistakes back to back recently, like 236 00:14:48.524 --> 00:14:52.285 really close to each other. I need to look at why this is 237 00:14:52.285 --> 00:14:56.020 happening. Has this always been happening and I'm just now getting called on it 238 00:14:56.020 --> 00:14:59.700 or has something changed? Like I need to figure this out. And 239 00:14:59.700 --> 00:15:03.105 so I took an entire month off of creating content. I didn't make a TikTok. 240 00:15:03.105 --> 00:15:06.865 I didn't make anything. I did post on Instagram once or twice 241 00:15:06.865 --> 00:15:10.625 to promote a bundle I had agreed to promote. But that was it 242 00:15:10.625 --> 00:15:14.310 for a full month. And how did you feel during that month? 243 00:15:14.310 --> 00:15:18.070 Like, what was your what thoughts were bouncing around in your head? Oh, horrible. That 244 00:15:18.070 --> 00:15:20.010 whole month was really hard. I mean, 245 00:15:21.814 --> 00:15:25.415 I felt bad for misleading people. I think I felt a lot of 246 00:15:25.415 --> 00:15:27.834 guilt. I also felt a lot of shame. 247 00:15:29.300 --> 00:15:33.060 I felt I had to reckon with 248 00:15:33.060 --> 00:15:36.660 some of my, like, privilege, I 249 00:15:36.660 --> 00:15:40.165 think, because I felt very 250 00:15:40.165 --> 00:15:43.925 attacked. And my my body is like my nervous system, as you can tell, like, 251 00:15:43.925 --> 00:15:47.225 I'm splotchy, like, my nervous system felt very unsafe. 252 00:15:47.720 --> 00:15:49.740 And I had to reckon with the fact that, 253 00:15:51.399 --> 00:15:55.000 like, I wasn't unsafe, that these people, most of 254 00:15:55.000 --> 00:15:57.795 whom were not attacking me. And 255 00:15:58.815 --> 00:16:02.515 this is what disagreement feels like. And yes, my personal 256 00:16:05.130 --> 00:16:08.910 history has led me to be very uncomfortable with disagreement and conflict. 257 00:16:09.050 --> 00:16:12.810 But that doesn't mean I'm unsafe. And I had to make sure I 258 00:16:12.810 --> 00:16:16.394 wasn't putting the people who disagreed with me in a position where I made 259 00:16:16.394 --> 00:16:20.154 them unsafe by, like, you know, shouting back at them 260 00:16:20.154 --> 00:16:23.910 or something because I could wield my privilege in a really, really 261 00:16:23.910 --> 00:16:27.590 crappy way. And like, I just I had to be really careful 262 00:16:27.590 --> 00:16:31.394 about that, I think. And so it was better to just make my 263 00:16:31.394 --> 00:16:35.074 apology as best I could, tell people I was working on it, and bounce for, 264 00:16:35.074 --> 00:16:38.524 like, a month. Oh my gosh. I think this is such a 265 00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:43.959 like, it shows your strength in that moment because and I know 266 00:16:43.959 --> 00:16:47.160 it doesn't feel like that probably. Like, I know you probably still feel pretty shitty 267 00:16:47.160 --> 00:16:50.635 about it. But, like, when I like, listening to this 268 00:16:50.635 --> 00:16:54.075 story, I think there are so many people who choose not to do that. And 269 00:16:54.075 --> 00:16:57.730 this is what I mean about, like, the Internet, like, pile of poo that can 270 00:16:57.730 --> 00:17:01.190 happen where it just keeps piling and piling up. And it's like, 271 00:17:01.490 --> 00:17:05.325 the one person disagrees and another person shouting louder with their disagreement and 272 00:17:05.325 --> 00:17:09.105 then the other person shouting back louder with the disagreement and suddenly we're, like, 273 00:17:09.244 --> 00:17:12.765 making it personal, you know, and there's so many things that 274 00:17:12.765 --> 00:17:16.190 happen. We see this a lot with, like, just cancel 275 00:17:16.250 --> 00:17:19.869 culture in general, where there's not 276 00:17:20.650 --> 00:17:24.145 space to breathe and to process, and it 277 00:17:24.145 --> 00:17:27.925 feels like mistakes can't 278 00:17:28.224 --> 00:17:31.850 actually be like, you can't go through the process of fixing it. It's 279 00:17:31.850 --> 00:17:35.610 like you have to immediately know exactly what to say. Don't you 280 00:17:35.610 --> 00:17:39.450 dare get a word wrong. Otherwise, the pitchforks are coming out and we're coming after 281 00:17:39.450 --> 00:17:42.725 you even more. So even though, 282 00:17:43.265 --> 00:17:47.025 you know, in your in your words, you said I made a mistake, you know, 283 00:17:47.025 --> 00:17:48.805 I didn't approach this the right way, 284 00:17:50.559 --> 00:17:54.240 Even despite all of that, like, taking the month off, taking the time to, like, 285 00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:58.000 process it, and then even going, hey. Can I come back on this podcast to, 286 00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:01.635 like, talk about the experience, I think, shows a level of strength 287 00:18:01.635 --> 00:18:05.015 that, not a lot of people would be able to go through? 288 00:18:05.635 --> 00:18:09.409 So after you took your month off so let let timeline wise, you're 289 00:18:09.409 --> 00:18:13.250 like, January, the situation happened. Let's say February, you launched a course and you 290 00:18:13.250 --> 00:18:16.925 take a month off. It's March now. Mhmm. What what are you doing 291 00:18:16.925 --> 00:18:20.285 now? Are you did you switch to a different platform? Are you still, like, dabbling 292 00:18:20.285 --> 00:18:23.725 in the TikTok world? Are people still creating videos? Like, give me the 293 00:18:23.725 --> 00:18:27.280 details. So I the 294 00:18:27.280 --> 00:18:30.880 apology video I made before I left, I turned off comments and 295 00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:34.480 shares and stuff. I was like, let's I this is just me saying my piece. 296 00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:38.105 Like, if anyway. So, and then 297 00:18:38.325 --> 00:18:41.845 after my month off, I came back and made a quick little video to say 298 00:18:41.845 --> 00:18:45.100 like, hey, I just wanna reiterate that I'm really sorry. I shouldn't have done those 299 00:18:45.100 --> 00:18:48.860 things and here's why, here's where I messed up. I 300 00:18:48.860 --> 00:18:52.300 have thought about what you said. I have integrated it and I am gonna 301 00:18:52.300 --> 00:18:56.135 do things differently moving forward. That being said, 302 00:18:56.274 --> 00:18:58.995 I don't really think TikTok is the place for me anymore so you don't have 303 00:18:58.995 --> 00:19:02.180 to expect me hanging around right now at least. 304 00:19:03.520 --> 00:19:07.120 And I talked about this a little bit on Instagram, which is now more of 305 00:19:07.120 --> 00:19:08.740 my main platform. And 306 00:19:10.945 --> 00:19:14.545 I basically just told people that, you know, I have too much 307 00:19:14.545 --> 00:19:18.225 privilege to be unsafe on TikTok, but I didn't feel super 308 00:19:18.225 --> 00:19:22.019 welcome. And I didn't feel that I, I didn't know that my 309 00:19:22.019 --> 00:19:25.860 being there was gonna be helpful to anybody anymore. And that's always been kind 310 00:19:25.860 --> 00:19:29.565 of the point. So I haven't been back 311 00:19:29.565 --> 00:19:33.245 really, at least not on any kind of consistent basis. I have had to 312 00:19:33.245 --> 00:19:36.900 check TikTok once or twice to get like tax documents. And yeah, people are still 313 00:19:36.900 --> 00:19:40.260 commenting and making videos about it. So that's still happening. 314 00:19:40.260 --> 00:19:43.860 But I've done what I can do, I 315 00:19:43.860 --> 00:19:47.445 think. I, during that month, restructured my 316 00:19:47.445 --> 00:19:51.285 entire business. I had to rename my business because I was called neurodivergent magic. 317 00:19:51.285 --> 00:19:55.090 And I realized that that was perpetuating the misuse the word neurodivergent. So 318 00:19:55.470 --> 00:19:59.070 I completely redid everything in order 319 00:19:59.070 --> 00:20:02.530 to try not to do that harm again. 320 00:20:03.815 --> 00:20:07.654 Yeah. So you did the work. I mean, how do you feel, though, about, like, 321 00:20:07.654 --> 00:20:11.414 TikTok your TikTok success up until this point? Because listening 322 00:20:11.414 --> 00:20:14.909 back to the episode that we recorded 6 months 323 00:20:14.909 --> 00:20:18.750 ago, you saw a lot of success on TikTok. It really catapulted your 324 00:20:18.750 --> 00:20:22.555 business. So, there's gotta be, like, conflicting feelings about 325 00:20:22.555 --> 00:20:26.015 the platform. Yes. But also, like 326 00:20:26.555 --> 00:20:30.250 okay. Okay. Let me organize my thoughts. So I 327 00:20:30.250 --> 00:20:33.530 don't wanna be like, I'm so grateful I messed up and hurt all those people 328 00:20:33.530 --> 00:20:37.210 because I learned a helpful lesson. Like, you know, I don't want it to 329 00:20:37.210 --> 00:20:40.995 come off that way hopefully, but if we're looking for silver linings, 330 00:20:40.995 --> 00:20:44.755 like, one of them was I realized I don't need TikTok as much 331 00:20:44.755 --> 00:20:48.450 as I thought I did. I thought TikTok was like the 332 00:20:48.450 --> 00:20:52.290 only platform I could be successful on. When all of this went down, I started 333 00:20:52.290 --> 00:20:55.330 looking for like 9 to fives because I was like, I don't know that I 334 00:20:55.330 --> 00:20:58.355 can keep doing this without TikTok, and I don't think I can do this on 335 00:20:58.355 --> 00:21:01.895 TikTok anymore. And then 336 00:21:02.195 --> 00:21:05.760 in late March, I had a launch 337 00:21:05.900 --> 00:21:09.120 scheduled for my signature program, the Get Shit Done program. 338 00:21:09.740 --> 00:21:12.960 And I decided to stick with it and do the launch. 339 00:21:14.284 --> 00:21:17.725 And it was the most successful launch I've had since I started the program in 340 00:21:17.725 --> 00:21:20.304 like 2021. Oh, wow. 341 00:21:21.299 --> 00:21:24.900 So so and I didn't use TikTok at all. So you 342 00:21:24.900 --> 00:21:28.715 use email, Instagram? Email, Instagram. And, 343 00:21:29.035 --> 00:21:32.395 I don't know if I used this for this particular launch. I don't think I 344 00:21:32.395 --> 00:21:36.155 was on there yet, but I'm currently using YouTube as well and finding a lot 345 00:21:36.155 --> 00:21:39.409 of success through YouTube. Okay. Interesting. 346 00:21:39.630 --> 00:21:43.070 So even though you saw success on TikTok, you took the 347 00:21:43.070 --> 00:21:46.884 learnings from that platform and applied it to other platforms, and you 348 00:21:46.884 --> 00:21:50.485 were still able to have success with this launch. Very 349 00:21:50.485 --> 00:21:54.190 interesting. So YouTube. Tell me about what you're doing on YouTube. Is 350 00:21:54.190 --> 00:21:57.950 it YouTube shorts? Are you doing long form video? I'm trying to do a 351 00:21:57.950 --> 00:22:01.605 little bit of everything. So I'm doing shorts, long form twice a week, and 352 00:22:01.605 --> 00:22:05.365 then a live once a week as well. Okay. Yeah. The lives 353 00:22:05.365 --> 00:22:09.059 on YouTube, I think, do really well. Very interesting. 354 00:22:09.360 --> 00:22:12.720 So now that we're here, this will release end of 355 00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:16.445 May 2024. So we're, like, 5 356 00:22:16.445 --> 00:22:20.225 months after. What's next for you? Like, how are you 357 00:22:20.924 --> 00:22:23.565 I know you made a lot of changes. I mean, you changed the name of 358 00:22:23.565 --> 00:22:27.400 your business. Holy cow. Like, you changed the name of your business. 359 00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:31.240 You had a successful launch. You're now on YouTube and Instagram, and you're 360 00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:34.645 focusing on your email list. Like, what are you doing, 361 00:22:34.785 --> 00:22:38.005 like, what more are you doing to shift things in the future? 362 00:22:38.865 --> 00:22:41.690 So a big thing I did during my month off is I sat down and 363 00:22:41.690 --> 00:22:44.669 I outlined my values as a person and as a business owner. 364 00:22:45.049 --> 00:22:48.809 And I read through those probably once every 365 00:22:48.809 --> 00:22:52.605 2 weeks or 3 weeks, just to like, just remind myself, what 366 00:22:52.605 --> 00:22:56.445 am I doing here? Why am I doing it? What am I trying to stick 367 00:22:56.445 --> 00:23:00.225 to? And that's been really helpful, I think 368 00:23:00.285 --> 00:23:03.710 in because like I said, a big part of my month off was just figuring 369 00:23:03.710 --> 00:23:06.590 out why am I making all these mistakes? Have I been doing this the whole 370 00:23:06.590 --> 00:23:09.915 time? And I think the answer is a little bit of both. Like, yeah, I 371 00:23:09.915 --> 00:23:13.435 was making mistakes that just weren't getting called out as much. And also, I think 372 00:23:13.435 --> 00:23:17.195 I just made bigger ones. And that just happens when you have a bigger platform, 373 00:23:17.195 --> 00:23:20.180 like, things get amplified pretty quickly. 374 00:23:22.320 --> 00:23:24.740 But I think moving forward, I'm 375 00:23:25.915 --> 00:23:29.455 reflecting on my values for sure. I'm definitely 376 00:23:29.515 --> 00:23:32.495 integrating my activism more and more into my, 377 00:23:33.035 --> 00:23:36.659 business, which I love. I was really nervous to start 378 00:23:36.659 --> 00:23:40.179 doing it back in November, because that's 379 00:23:40.419 --> 00:23:44.205 I I started integrating everything that's happening in Palestine into 380 00:23:44.205 --> 00:23:47.505 my content, to speak out against what's happening 381 00:23:47.565 --> 00:23:51.380 there. And I was so nervous and so worried and I 382 00:23:51.380 --> 00:23:54.980 was like, how is this gonna relate? And I've basically just discovered that, 383 00:23:54.980 --> 00:23:58.505 like, if you for 384 00:23:58.505 --> 00:24:01.805 me, for me, if I have a platform, 385 00:24:03.145 --> 00:24:05.965 I want all of me to be on it. And 386 00:24:07.290 --> 00:24:10.810 I don't know. The way I feel about a lot of these things 387 00:24:10.810 --> 00:24:14.170 is, I don't know, part of me that I want represented in my 388 00:24:14.170 --> 00:24:18.015 brand. Yeah. I think values alignment is it's 389 00:24:18.015 --> 00:24:21.555 hard it's doing the work that's hard, but it's doing the work that is important. 390 00:24:22.770 --> 00:24:26.070 I know for me and my clients, we saw this 391 00:24:26.290 --> 00:24:29.890 especially, when the pandemic hit and Black Lives Matter was 392 00:24:29.890 --> 00:24:33.705 happening. There are so many people who didn't take the time to do the work 393 00:24:33.705 --> 00:24:37.465 to figure out what that meant for them. So then when an event does 394 00:24:37.465 --> 00:24:41.179 happen where they do feel like they need to speak up on something, then they're 395 00:24:41.179 --> 00:24:44.000 trying to do the work and process the event at the same time. 396 00:24:44.620 --> 00:24:48.335 And it that is a really hard place to be. And it took 397 00:24:48.335 --> 00:24:51.855 you a month you took a month off to do this work. And so if 398 00:24:51.855 --> 00:24:55.615 the if anyone's listening to this and you haven't taken the time to do your 399 00:24:55.615 --> 00:24:59.370 values yet, I highly and take a look at it regularly. 400 00:24:59.430 --> 00:25:03.110 We just added a value, this year to our business. It's the 401 00:25:03.110 --> 00:25:06.585 spirit of collaboration. Because we were getting a lot of 402 00:25:06.585 --> 00:25:10.345 pushback from our clients about certain topics, you know, 403 00:25:10.345 --> 00:25:13.760 like Palestine, for instance. And they would completely shut down the 404 00:25:13.760 --> 00:25:16.799 conversation before we could even have it. And so we were like, no. No. No. 405 00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:20.025 Like, we need to talk about what this means as a business even if not 406 00:25:20.025 --> 00:25:23.705 posting about it on social media, that's fine. But all of our 407 00:25:23.705 --> 00:25:27.385 clients need to understand, what does this mean for you, your business? How does it 408 00:25:27.385 --> 00:25:30.630 impact you, your clients. Like, if you can't answer those questions, then 409 00:25:31.409 --> 00:25:35.190 as the world is changing around us, it's gonna be so hard to, like, 410 00:25:35.385 --> 00:25:39.065 make a PR statement, like, when the time comes because you have no you 411 00:25:39.065 --> 00:25:42.745 have nothing to make it off of. So I love that you did that for 412 00:25:42.745 --> 00:25:46.570 you. And it helps to have this integrated approach 413 00:25:46.570 --> 00:25:50.250 no matter what happens in the future because life will happen. And then you 414 00:25:50.250 --> 00:25:53.644 can attract people into your world who also, 415 00:25:54.745 --> 00:25:58.505 stand for and stand against the things that you do as well. Yeah. I 416 00:25:58.505 --> 00:26:02.220 think that's been a really big thing recently. And it's been scary, I 417 00:26:02.220 --> 00:26:05.820 guess, because I've always been more of a people pleaser. But then 418 00:26:05.820 --> 00:26:09.260 internally, I just get really angry at everybody for not agreeing with me. But it's 419 00:26:09.260 --> 00:26:13.105 like, but you're doing the people pleasing, like you're creating this problem. 420 00:26:13.164 --> 00:26:16.845 So I'm unlearning some of that. And it's definitely tricky, 421 00:26:16.845 --> 00:26:20.570 but very, very worth it for sure. Yeah. Do you 422 00:26:20.570 --> 00:26:24.090 think that being someone who speaks up 423 00:26:24.090 --> 00:26:27.845 against or for certain topics makes you more 424 00:26:27.845 --> 00:26:31.065 susceptible to get criticism and feedback from community? 425 00:26:32.885 --> 00:26:36.165 Yes and no. Like I said before, I think people get mad at anything on 426 00:26:36.165 --> 00:26:39.860 the Internet, So not necessarily. But I think 427 00:26:41.120 --> 00:26:44.880 I think there are certain topics that are probably more charged, like everything 428 00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:48.544 in Palestine, like Roe v. Wade a couple summers ago, like, you know, there's a 429 00:26:48.544 --> 00:26:52.304 lot of things that are just more charged, often because they 430 00:26:52.304 --> 00:26:55.825 have to do with human rights. And so people who, you know, 431 00:26:55.825 --> 00:26:59.380 so anyway, trying to organize my 432 00:26:59.380 --> 00:27:03.160 thoughts. But I think it does invite some more criticism, 433 00:27:03.380 --> 00:27:07.035 but I think at the same time it's usually worth it 434 00:27:07.095 --> 00:27:10.775 because I it's one of those things 435 00:27:10.775 --> 00:27:14.340 where I'm not people pleasing to make someone comfortable, I'm 436 00:27:14.340 --> 00:27:17.640 standing up because someone's life is on the line. And to me, that's 437 00:27:18.660 --> 00:27:22.085 more important than my own comfort, which I'm often very 438 00:27:22.085 --> 00:27:25.525 uncomfortable or other people's comfort. And so that's 439 00:27:25.525 --> 00:27:29.250 been a shift I've had to make recently is like, what what 440 00:27:29.250 --> 00:27:32.470 do I value? Do I value comfort or do I value rights? And 441 00:27:32.850 --> 00:27:36.370 sometimes they don't always come head to head like that, but sometimes they do, and 442 00:27:36.370 --> 00:27:39.955 we gotta make a choice. Yeah. I like, I'm 443 00:27:39.955 --> 00:27:43.795 curious if this sitting in the discomfort is new for you, 444 00:27:43.795 --> 00:27:47.150 or did it emerge with with the Internet? Because I 445 00:27:47.390 --> 00:27:51.070 like, it it there is the the this I'm 446 00:27:51.070 --> 00:27:54.670 trying to organize my thoughts too because this sitting in the the discomfy, like, it's 447 00:27:54.670 --> 00:27:57.125 just I have to do it so regularly 448 00:27:58.385 --> 00:28:02.225 that I don't know what life was like before this this moment. And 449 00:28:02.225 --> 00:28:05.120 I'm like, well, I don't even know what I was thinking or doing before. But 450 00:28:05.120 --> 00:28:07.520 I just kind of, like, you have to face it head on and you have 451 00:28:07.520 --> 00:28:10.000 to do it. And you, you know, you grit your teeth and we get through 452 00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:13.815 it because we know that these are human rights issues, or 453 00:28:13.815 --> 00:28:17.495 we we know that what's on the other side of this, you know. And so, 454 00:28:17.495 --> 00:28:21.200 yeah, I'm curious for you if you have the same experience. Oh, 455 00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:24.340 yeah. Sitting in discomfort is incredibly new to me. 456 00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:28.180 My personal, like, experience growing up was very, 457 00:28:28.560 --> 00:28:32.255 conflict avoidant, very, triangulated communication, 458 00:28:32.875 --> 00:28:36.680 lots of enmeshment, you know, all kinds of codependency fun stuff. 459 00:28:38.200 --> 00:28:41.800 And so for me, I always prioritize other people's 460 00:28:41.800 --> 00:28:45.240 comfort over everything, over my needs, over other people's needs. 461 00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:48.875 Like, there were certain people I had to make happy and 462 00:28:48.875 --> 00:28:52.555 that was kind of all that mattered. And then I 463 00:28:52.555 --> 00:28:55.700 realized that wasn't a great way to live my life and so I swung in 464 00:28:55.700 --> 00:28:59.460 the other direction and I think I became a pretty selfish person who like, you 465 00:28:59.460 --> 00:29:03.195 know, used, yeah, my trauma kind of broke me in some ways. 466 00:29:03.195 --> 00:29:06.635 And then I used my sharp edges to kind of like stab at people. And 467 00:29:06.635 --> 00:29:10.320 so I think I swung the other direction. And I think now I'm 468 00:29:10.320 --> 00:29:13.920 learning to sort of sit in that middle. It's the worst place to be, like, 469 00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:17.765 comfort wise. Because over here, people pleasing, at least they're comfortable 470 00:29:17.765 --> 00:29:21.365 and you feel like you're doing the right thing. And then over here, at least 471 00:29:21.365 --> 00:29:24.929 you're stabbing and getting your aggression out. But in the middle, you're just sitting with 472 00:29:24.929 --> 00:29:28.710 it and it's miserable. But it's also, like, so 473 00:29:28.769 --> 00:29:32.315 essential. And I think I think it makes me a better business owner. I think 474 00:29:32.315 --> 00:29:35.115 it makes me a better coach. And hopefully, it makes me a better daughter, a 475 00:29:35.115 --> 00:29:38.950 better wife, a better mom. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yes. I 476 00:29:38.950 --> 00:29:42.570 love all of this in, like, just out of, like, solidarity 477 00:29:42.710 --> 00:29:46.470 because it's so uncomfortable, to be here and the 478 00:29:46.470 --> 00:29:50.215 work is necessary. So as we wrap up today, any final 479 00:29:50.215 --> 00:29:53.275 thoughts on this topic or anything else that you wanna add to the conversation? 480 00:29:54.695 --> 00:29:58.520 I think if there's anyone listening who's maybe newer to business, and you're 481 00:29:58.520 --> 00:30:02.200 scared to put yourself out there on TikTok, or Instagram or YouTube, because you're 482 00:30:02.200 --> 00:30:05.855 afraid of getting canceled, because I would say I kinda kinda got canceled. 483 00:30:07.355 --> 00:30:11.135 Don't let my story scare you because I'm still creating 484 00:30:11.675 --> 00:30:14.815 and I'm safe and I'm whole. And 485 00:30:15.820 --> 00:30:19.660 I messed up very publicly and I will own 486 00:30:19.660 --> 00:30:22.780 my part of it too. You know, like, I did the messing up and you're 487 00:30:22.780 --> 00:30:26.565 gonna do the messing up too. We all are. And people are gonna get 488 00:30:26.565 --> 00:30:30.245 really mad, and maybe rightfully so. But I don't want this to 489 00:30:30.245 --> 00:30:33.685 scare you away from creating because that's the really cool thing about being a 490 00:30:33.685 --> 00:30:37.370 person is that like, you still have worthwhile and 491 00:30:37.370 --> 00:30:40.890 interesting things to say, even if you do mess up. And as long as you 492 00:30:40.890 --> 00:30:44.475 do the work and you reflect and, and apologize as 493 00:30:44.475 --> 00:30:48.175 genuinely as you can and try to move forward in a better direction 494 00:30:48.235 --> 00:30:51.680 with a better way. There's nothing more you can 495 00:30:51.680 --> 00:30:55.520 do. And people still need to hear you. And they still need your 496 00:30:55.520 --> 00:30:59.345 message. And they still need your work. Yeah. I love 497 00:30:59.345 --> 00:31:02.945 that that you said that, and that you're creating in other 498 00:31:02.945 --> 00:31:06.570 places. Right? It doesn't have to be, you know, put your eggs all in one 499 00:31:06.570 --> 00:31:10.330 basket sort of situation. You're you're taking your work and spreading it 500 00:31:10.330 --> 00:31:14.054 around to more people, different communities. And that's great. So for those 501 00:31:14.054 --> 00:31:17.895 listening, if they wanna connect with you, how do they guide you? Yes. Okay. So 502 00:31:17.895 --> 00:31:21.600 I am primarily over on YouTube. It's the neurocuriosity club. 503 00:31:22.220 --> 00:31:25.600 Same thing over on Instagram and my website is also the NeuroCuriosity 504 00:31:25.980 --> 00:31:29.179 club. Speaker one: Perfect. And I'll put all of those links in the show notes 505 00:31:29.179 --> 00:31:30.355 as always onlinedrea.com/306. 506 00:31:32.815 --> 00:31:35.935 Megan, thank you so much for being on the show today. Thank you so much 507 00:31:35.935 --> 00:31:39.610 for having me back. Yay. And thank you, dear listener. We have another episode 508 00:31:39.610 --> 00:31:42.590 coming out next week. I'll see you then. Bye for now.