Welcome to episode 338 of the mindful marketing
podcast. This is the last episode in my series this month
highlighting episodes, that I've been featured as a guest
on. And today, I am happy to share with you the
Podcast Babes podcast hosted by Anne Claessen.
In this episode, we're diving into one of my favorite topics, using
social media to attract podcast sponsors. So
if you're just starting out or if you wanna look to
amplify your show's growth, this conversation has all the
BTS details of how I get sponsors on my show. We
talk about how I landed a podcast sponsor in my first
20 episodes, my top tips for securing
sponsorships, including the challenges that I faced and
the creative ways that I've monetized my show. We talk about how
your podcast is a powerful trust building tool and how
it can complement your overall marketing strategy.
I share my Costco sample strategy, which is how I
promote my episodes on social media. I mean, who doesn't love a free sample?
And I talk about the importance of creating social media posts that
provide stand alone value, giving your audiences and your people a reason to
engage even if they don't click through to listen to your show. So if you've
been wondering how to make your podcast irresistible
to sponsors or if you just want fresh ideas for growth, tune in to
this episode of the Podcast Babes podcast.
Hey, Podcast Babes. Welcome back. Today, I'm here with Andréa
Jones. She is the social media strategist who helps you find the
sweet spot between hustle and soft life. I'm definitely
interested. She is also at the host of the award winning
mindful marketing podcast, where she shares the latest social
media tips and strategies. And I'm so excited to have
you on the show here today, Andréa, just to hear
your tips and tricks on podcasting, but maybe also a little bit on social
media because I know that, you you know, some people who might be listening
today are not necessarily the biggest fan of social media
sometimes. So I wanna hear all of your best advice
how to make it work for us. So first of all, welcome.
Thank you so much for having me. Honestly, I love geeking out about
both podcasting and social media, so I'm happy to be here
and just, like, chat about it. Then you're in the right place. I have so
many questions for you. Maybe to kick us off, can you tell us a little
bit more about what you do as a social media strategist and then
also how a podcast fits into that? Yes. So I
started my business in 2014, but I have
been playing online, creating content online since 2004.
And it was definitely not cool to have a blog in 2004.
Everyone was like, nerd. But I
loved it. And so in 2014, I started
the business as a freelancer. It's the past 10 years, kind of built it
up into a social media agency. I actually just recently sold my agency. But
now I'm just a social media educator and content creator.
And how the podcast fits into all of that is I come from a YouTube
background. So the weird thing is I met my husband on YouTube.
We're both creating YouTube videos. We were in the
comment section commenting, and then we created a video
together, kinda like we're doing this interview. And then we just kept
talking after. Oh my god. I come from the YouTube space. Yeah.
It's it's like social media is in, like, literally my life.
But when I started my business, I
stopped creating content because I was so focused on just running the
business. Couple years in, I realized that I got bit
by the content bug again and actually happened to have a lot
of clients who had podcasts. And so I started off just
managing social media accounts for podcasters, and
then was like, podcasting seems way easier than doing a YouTube
video because I could just record the audio piece and not worry about
the video piece. I did this 28 day challenge that
podcast movement was running. And then it was like, if you did their free
challenge and you could win a ticket to go to the conference. And so I
did it, and I happened to win. And so I got to go to the
conference for free, and that just, like, opened up my
whole world into podcasting. Like, I didn't
realize how much of an impact it would have on my business. It's
the most consistent, like, content creation thing I've ever done,
and that was 2018. So I started podcasting in 2018, and I
haven't stopped since. Cool. That's awesome. That's
so cool. I love how you took that challenge and then also won.
That's so cool. But even if you didn't win the ticket, I think, you know,
completing a 28 day challenge and then walking away
from that challenge with a podcast, I mean, there's no
losing. Right? There's, like, everyone's a winner who goes through
that. So I think that's that's super cool that you saw that opportunity and that
you took it. Yeah. I mean, I don't think I would have launched the
way that I did if I didn't go through that challenge because it was
broken down into such small pieces. And I have no idea if they still do
this, but it's broken down into such small pieces like choose the name of your
show. Today, we're gonna design the artwork. Then the next day, we're gonna write the
description. And so it was like so bite sized that I actually
got through it all. And as you know, with podcasting,
it's there's so many, like, little pieces to, like,
check off before you you can even, like, publish a show.
Whereas I found with the YouTube channel, it was different
because when you created the thing and then uploaded the thing, and there wasn't
really a lot that you had to do to, like, get it out there. With
podcasting, it was a little bit different. So, yeah, the challenge in and of itself
was a huge accomplishment for me. Yeah. I love that. And I think it's
so important to have those that guidance. Right? Because like
you said, podcast and especially launching a new podcast has so
many moving pieces. I remember when I launched my first podcast, I just
got lost because I started and I was like, okay. I think I know what
to do. And then, oh, well, there's this other thing. And this other thing. Oh,
yeah. And I didn't think about this. And, you know, like, all of those things,
like, keep coming up. So I think having some sort of guidance or
structure for creating your podcast and then launching it, I think, is
just really, really valuable. You know? Whether that's working
with a company to help you or with a podcast manager or with a challenge
like this, like, some kind of structure, I think I think there's probably
no way to launch a podcast without it. So then
after launching, going to the conference, you said
that your podcast has this really good
impact on your business. Was that immediately that you saw, oh my
god, this is working? Or was it kind of a slow start? Can you share
a little bit more about what that looked like exactly for you?
Yeah. I saw a pretty immediate success. So
I think because the podcast is so focused on social media,
and at the time, this is 2018. So at the
time, there wasn't a ton of other podcasts in
this niche. Okay. And if there were, they were kinda
speaking to, like, bigger brands.
And a lot of my podcast speaks to, like, small
businesses, entrepreneurs, one person
businesses. You know? Like, we're doing all the all of the things. And
so I found, like, this space for myself in that area
that not a lot of other people were doing. So the 20
episodes in, I got my 1st sponsor, for the
podcast. And it was a pretty, for me, significant deal. It was
$1,000 a month, and they had full,
sponsorship of the show, like full run of the show. And I had that
sponsor for 3 years, into, like, running yeah. So it was like a
really long term partnership for me. And that
covered the cost of producing the show. So I saw pretty
immediate success in that regard. But the other thing, and I
don't know if you find this too with your show, is I got to talk
to people and, like, pick their brain. People who I'd have never I would have
never had the opportunity to talk to them before. Like, if I just
said to someone, you know, like, hey, let's sit down and have a coffee chat.
They'd be like, you know, busy. But I'm like, hey, can you come on my
podcast? Same conversation. It's just Yeah. In a different format.
And it was like, I was talking to people who I felt were out of
my league a little bit, and that's because of the podcast. So for me, those
two things instantly, I was like, oh, this is so worth it. Yeah. It's
such a good excuse to talk to cool people and Yeah. Get all their
tips and tricks. It's so good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's
like, I know we're recording it, but, also, like, can I be nosy
about how you read your business? You know? Yeah. Because I could.
Exactly. You're just getting yourself a pass of just any question you want, and
people will answer it. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So
pretty instant success. Yeah. Yeah. That's so cool. How did you find
this sponsor, or did they find you? They found me. They found me on
LinkedIn. So I was just doing
my social media thing. Right? So I record the podcast, but then I share it
out everywhere on, like, all of my social channels.
And the marketing director at the company found
the podcast on LinkedIn and then sent me a message and was like, hey, have
you ever thought about sponsors? I was like, no. What's your budget? You
know, like, trying to be like, try not to create a package, but let's see
how much they can afford and what they want. And, honestly,
it turned into more than just a podcast, but it all started
from them sliding into my DMs on LinkedIn.
Very cool. That's awesome. Yeah. That's so cool. Is there any
advice that you would give new podcasters when they think
about working with a sponsor? Like, working with them for 3 years, but then
also, I I believe now you also have a sponsor on a podcast. Right?
So having some experience in this, I know that many podcasters, they
just have no idea, and you don't know what you don't know. Right? So
Yeah. What would your top tips be for newer
podcasters? Yeah. I think the hardest thing about sponsorship
is the tracking. So with a YouTube
video, the link is in the description. Everyone knows this
link in the description. You go to the description, you click the link, and you
go there. With a podcast, people are not sitting down and
watching it like a YouTube video. They're like, you know, doing their dishes,
walking the dog, taking the kids to daycare. So there's
not really a like, of course, you put the links in the show notes, but
a lot of people don't click the link. So the thing that I found
over the years is to have coupon codes with my sponsors so that,
you know, people need to hear that ad probably like 7, 10,
12 times before they go, oh, yeah, I need to go check this out
and put in the coupon code. They may never click the link in the show
notes because, like, they're listening and they're gone. But they may remember, like,
there's a coupon code to and to put that in. And so that's been the
biggest way to track it for me. But as far as getting sponsors,
in between having sponsors so I had that sponsor for, 3
years, and then I had a gap. I was sponsoring my own show.
So I would use my own products, my own offers to sponsor my
show. And I think even if you don't have a sponsor,
you can use your own stuff. Or if you're an affiliate for something, you can
use that too. So great example of a sponsor that I had
now who I never had before was Canva. I've been trying to get
Canva as a sponsor for years, and I'm a Canva ambassador this year for
the first time. But before doing that, I would
just name drop them all the time and be like, click my link in the
show notes. That's my affiliate link. I was not affiliated with them,
like, as a partner, but I would get revenue from the affiliate
link. So you can even do things like that too where it's,
like, not an official partnership. But if you
sign up for their affiliate program and someone clicks your link, you can still get,
like, residual revenue that way. Yeah. Absolutely.
So most of the guests that we have on this podcast, they
monetize their podcast a little bit differently. They don't necessarily have sponsors,
but they often use their podcast to market their own business and
get clients from their podcast. Is that also something that you do and
see do you see that work for your business as well? And how do you
see that, like, related to the sponsorship? Like, do you have a
balance like, a conscious balance in that or does it just work itself out? Can
you talk a little bit more about that, what that looks like?
Yeah. So when I ran my agency, I would say,
anecdotally, probably, like, 75% of the
clients would listen to at least one episode of the podcast before
becoming a client. And I distinctly remember Rachel
Rogers when she became a client, she got on the call with me and
her team got on the call with me to see if we'd be good fit.
And they were quoting back something I said in a podcast
episode on, like, the sales call to see. And I'm
like, oh, you're you studied. But Yeah. They went
deep into my world. And so for me, it's such an intimate
medium. Right? Like, when someone listens to a podcast, you're, like, in
their head. You're, like, literally ear like, AirPods
in their head. So for me, a lot of people
who sign up for my programs become a private client, they're listened
to at least 1 episode so they can get a sense of my vibe. And
so I like to think of the podcast as a sample of what it's like
to work with me because I'm not, like, super
buttoned up or, you know, I use not a lot of
analogies. I like to tell stories, you know, things like that. And so
that's very much how my teaching style is. It's very much how it is to
work with me. And so, yes, I definitely get clients from the
podcast. I've even had people who I've interviewed who
have then become a client as well. You know, or they're they book
me for speaking gigs and things like that. And so it's so integral
into everything I do, and it's actually the one thing I don't skip. Like,
sometimes I'll take a break from social media. Sometimes I'll take a break from writing
my newsletter. I don't skip publishing a
podcast episode. Like, it it's just such a
deep part of how I market myself that it's that
important. Like, it's the last bit. Like, if I skip a podcast episode, I'm
like laid out sick in the hospital somewhere. Like, you know, I don't skip. And
I have I've had 2 babies since that. I didn't skip
an episode during any of that. So, yes,
the podcast for me is how I get clients. It's
it's like the middle of my funnel as far as, nurturing relationships
with potential clients and customers. Yeah. That's awesome.
That's so cool that you were able to stay so consistent
even through, like, I think I love that you mentioned that you had
2 babies, like, in running this podcast and hosting this podcast,
and you still consistently release content and that that was
possible. Can you share a little bit more about how you do that? How do
you stay so consistent for 6 years? Yeah. I
will admit having the babies part was the hardest. Not necessarily
after the baby came, but, like, during both pregnancies. And I had 2
babies in 3 years. I have a 2 year old and a 5 month old.
So Wow. Very back to back. I don't recommend it that
way. Just happened that way. The pregnancy was so hard,
especially being pregnant and having a toddler. Like, my energy
level was nonexistent most
days. So I batch recorded
when I could. You know, some weeks I would record podcast episodes every
single day that week to catch up, especially
during the 2nd trimester, like energy boost where I was like,
oh, I feel halfway normal again. We're just gonna record a bunch
of podcasts. I also found the interviews to be easier than, you
know, just episodes with me because I could just ask questions and
then breathe a little bit. And then I have support. I have a team.
So my assistant is wonderful. She helps me edit
my podcast. She makes sure everything's organized with the guests,
and they all get their assets afterwards so they can share the episodes and all
of that. So that really helped with both of those
pregnancies. But during both, I stopped posting YouTube
videos. I really slowed down my social. Like, I slowed down
everything else so that I could just focus in on the podcast. The
other thing I'll say too is I have
really streamlined it over the years. So when I first started the podcast, I
would do all these editing things that I just don't do
anymore because I found that
the raw podcast is 80%
there anyways. And, like, I could spend another 3 hours
to get it to 90%, or I could just run it at a
b. Like, it's good. It's great. And so,
yeah, I stopped getting so worried about it being perfect Mhmm. And
just would I the front end research for me is the most
important piece. So, like, researching my guess, researching the topic,
creating my outline. That part I've gotta do.
But then when I sit down to record and then even editing after, I just
don't spend a lot of time overthinking that piece. So that also really helps
if I have to do a bunch of episodes at once. Yeah. Absolutely.
So what I'm hearing you say is it's having those processes
in place. So you have your team to support you. You let
go over the perfectionism. And then also, the first thing that you said I
would I would probably say that's just prioritizing it.
Right? You know, over everything else you wanted
to stay consistent with this podcast. So that meant batch recording when you
could. Letting go of some other marketing
strategies or marketing projects so that you could focus on the podcast.
And then you have just doing the thing, batch recording when you
could and getting that to your team on time so that you could stay
consistent that way. That's awesome. That's really cool.
And that must have been challenging, but it must also feel
so good that now, you know, you can say, yes. Made it. Stayed
consistent all the time. Yeah. It does feel
good to be on the other side of it. There are no more kids for
me, so I'm happy about that too. But, you
know, it's just one of those things too where I use the
resources that I had available to me. So for example,
December is a really hard month to produce content for
me. It's like the end of the year scramble to, like, get everything
done before holiday stuff and then add in, like,
all the holiday stuff. And I'm like, where is time? Mhmm. So in
December, the past 2 years, I've
published podcasts that I was a guest on on my own
feed. So I'd reach out to a few people and be like, hey, I really
like this interview. Can I republish it on my podcast? And they're like, yeah,
sure. Absolutely. And I just record, like, the little intro piece to be like,
hey, this is this interview from whatever. And so, like, there's
so much available to us that we have as content. And so I would
just try to be as creative as possible to, like, create
this content piece and not just have to start from scratch every time.
Yeah. I think that is a really creative way to do it. And there's so
many different formats that you can play with actually in podcasting.
Right? I think, you know, so everyone always thinks solo episodes, interviews. Okay. Well,
that's it. But there's so much more that you can do, like republishing, you know,
the other side of the story. So while you're at a gas like you mentioned,
but also, you know, like some of my clients are like panel discussions
or I don't know. They ask the same gas on again. I've done
that for my podcast, which has been super fun where you can kind of, like,
catch up. Like, okay, what's new? Yeah. And I'll refer back to the last
interview as well. So there's some some, like, hacks, I
would say, to make life easier when you when you need it, for
sure. I also know that the podcast looks different than what it looked
when you launched it. Right? Because at some point, you also went through a rebrand.
How was that? Yeah. Challenging. I
don't recommend it. No. It's like, it was Okay. It's so hard.
Like, so I did the rebrand 6 months ago now, so
it's still very new to me. The podcast started off as the
Savvy Social podcast, and it matches the branding of a
lot of my products. So I have the Savvy Social School, which is my
membership. I have Savvy Social Pro, which is for is my
mentorship for, like, professionals. Mhmm.
And so Savvy Social is ingrained into what I do.
However, I'm going through a bit of a
rebrand with my positioning. You mentioned kind
of like my new tagline, finding the sweet spot between the
soft life and hustling. And that's really been my mission
the whole time. I'm just putting a new name on it to make people
instantly connect with that messaging.
Also, I talk a lot about other things. This podcast, for
example, I talk a lot about podcasting. Podcasting is actually
podcasting and email are technically more impactful to my
business than social media. But I teach social
media. And so part of this is like, I'm teaching social media to be like,
oh, I lead people to my podcast. That's really the the big thing for me.
Right? And so the rebrand to mindful
marketing is all about repositioning
it, when I talk about to not be so focused on
social media. So and this also, I do not
recommend. I rebranded the podcast 2 weeks after having
my my second baby, because it
just happened to be the 10 year anniversary of my
business as well. Oh, yeah. So it all kind of came together as,
like, I'm celebrating 10 years by going in this new direction.
I planned it all out before having the baby, and then my team kind of
changed everything while I was recovering. And now we're the
mindful marketing podcast. And the feedback was amazing,
like, instantly. I still have formerly known as
in, like, the title because people still know me as Savvy Social
Podcast, and they still look that up. That's what we won awards under that
name. But there's a lot there's so many little things that are connected
to Savvy Social. So my recommendation would be pick a
name and stick with it. But if you have changed your
name, there there's, like it's actually really easy to do in the podcast
host. Really easy to change your name and cover art. It's just like all the
other places where you mention your podcast. You gotta go back and change all of
those too. But this new direction has opened up the conversation because
now I'm able to not just talk about social media, but podcasting
and email marketing and, like, other forms of marketing that actually
are more impactful to me in my business outside of social media, which is
my area of expertise. Yeah. And that's so exciting. It's like
an evolution of the brand as well where you kind of
you were more niche before, and then now you've opened it up. It's
a broader topic that you can talk about, which is also really cool.
And just for, you know, anyone listening, like, what we usually
say, what we usually teach is to start a podcast
as niche as possible. Right? As what makes sense within
reason. So if you can narrow it down to
one topic for one specific group of people, great. Start
that and then go broader once you've made that
successful and once you've made that work. Instead of starting super
broad because it's just really difficult to gain traction that
way. So I think it's actually really interesting to see that it is possible to
do that. Right? Before you talked about one topic,
it's like more niche in marketing, social media, and then now you open it
up to more, you know, marketing discussions and topics, which
is really cool and super exciting Yeah. For sure. Thank
you. I'm excited about it too because it just opens up
so it opens up more conversations. And one another thing you
mentioned at the beginning of the episode was a lot of people don't like
social media. And there's this, what I
call a situationship that we have with social media where it's like,
we love it, but then, like, we also hate it at the same time. I
think it's not we it's not a healthy it's not a healthy relationship at all.
Yeah. And so I wanna talk about that. And I brought people on the show
who are like, yeah. I no longer use social media. And
that those are the conversations I wanna have. I find it fascinating. Like,
social media is a great tool. It's a marketing tool, but it's only one tool.
You don't have to use social media. What else can you use? You know? Podcast
guesting, for instance, a great way to, like, get in front of new people and
talk about what you do, and you don't need social media for that. Right? So,
yeah, this this evolution for me is not to be anti
social media because it's still my first love. I love social media and it's still
my preference, but also it's not the most impactful thing I can do
in my business marketing wise. So let's talk about that. You know? Mhmm.
Yeah. Exactly. So you mentioned that social media
is a big source of traffic for your podcast. Right? From social media, you send
people to your podcast to nurture them further, and then they
would be interested to work with you and then sign up for that.
How do you do that exactly? Can you share a little bit more about your
process on how to promote the podcast on social media?
Yeah. I like to use a strategy that I call the Costco
sample strategy. So when you go to Costco or
Sam's Club or wherever you're going, big warehouse style
shopping, they give you these little samples. Right? Like a little piece of
cheese, little cracker. So you taste it, and then you go, I gotta buy the
whole thing. That's my strategy for the podcast. So I
use Riverside, and I take little clips from the
podcast. They have this, like, magic tool that
lets it, like, auto selects clips for you. And so
I'll usually just pick one of those. I like to trim it down because their
clips are kind of long. They're always a minute, and we don't need a whole
minute. Sometimes I'll just do 30 seconds, 15 seconds. Just
enough that's, like, a concept from the show, and
then I'll post that on social media. Almost every platform
right now is in love, like, obsessed with vertical video. Even LinkedIn
is like, yes, vertical video all the way. So same little vertical
video, I post it to all platforms, and then I
give a little like, hey. This is a concept from the show. Here's how you
listen to it. And a lot of people respond to
that. And so that's my main way of sharing the
episodes. But I'll also do what I call
I use the thought bubble emoji for this and, like, my content planning. And
it's to me like these little content nuggets from the podcast.
So if I were to do one on this episode, for instance, I would do,
like, you know, how to market my business during maternity leave,
and I would just share, like, a few things I did. Batch recording, recording when
I had energy, reposting guest podcast,
And then I would go something like, but I talk about this way more in
this podcast episode and then link to that. And sometimes I'll put that,
like, we'll call the action in the comment section too. So it's like,
it's not the main point of the post. I'm still giving you information. I'm
still sharing something valuable. But, like, if you're kinda
curious, I talk about this more on this episode of the podcast. So I'll
do that a lot too to drive traffic over to the podcast.
I love that. Okay. Backing up. When I started
this podcast and, you know, when we started working with clients, many
people did a post that was, we have a new podcast episode. Woo
hoo. That was the post. But what I'm hearing you say
is value first. Right? The post itself
is valuable information. It's a snippet from the podcast where
one concept gets explained or it is
a post about that, you know, like maybe it's like bullet points or
whatever it is. And then if people want more, they can go to the
podcast. But they don't have to because it's still valuable on its
own and that's definitely something that we learned, you
know, trial and error as well whereas, like, it makes sense if you say
it like this, but I think it was so common for people to
just do a post on social media that said, you hit the uni website.
That that was just the thing everyone did. So I think this is
super valuable, very good advice, value first approach. Make
sure that it's worth seeing the post even if people don't go
to the podcast because it's also marketing. Right? The goal is
not necessarily to get people just to your podcast, but also to
build that brand, build a relationship with these people.
And not everyone is podcast podcast listener,
I think, unfortunately. You know? Yeah. I couldn't I couldn't
imagine it. But I know. Right? Everyone should be listening to podcasts, but
a lot of people don't. And the interesting thing about the way your social media
algorithms are changing right now, if I can be just, like, nerdy for a second,
is the algorithms are focused on discovery.
So that means they're trying to help people discover new content.
They're not so wild about, like, always showing your
content to the people who follow you. Mhmm. They want to put your content in
front of new people. And so I like to design
my content as if someone who's never heard of me
before is just looking at this post for the first time. And I think
that mindset shift can be really helpful to podcasters because it takes
you from, like, I posted another episode with the
assumption that everyone's reading every post and listening to everything that you do,
which as much as we'd love that, that's not reality at all. Like
Yeah. Your post is mixed in with hundreds of other posts. So
if we just assume someone's never heard of you before and this is the first
time they're looking at this, what do you say? And it is. It's values
first. It's like, okay. Before we even get to, like, buy
this, like, enormous pack of cheese that you've never heard of before, let's just, like,
give you a little sample first. And Yeah. Yeah. Definitely values first
there. Yeah. I love that. That's such good advice.
Amazing. Well, thank you so much for coming on a podcast today
and sharing your 6 years of podcasting.
I can't believe that you were able to stay consistent for 6
years. That's just that's amazing. That's over 300
episodes, by the way. In case you're you're listening and you're wondering, that's
that's a lot of content. Yep. So I think that's that's in that
in itself is a huge achievement, but I also loved hearing about
the effect that the podcast had on your business. Right? That you found new clients,
but also sponsors. So it's a different income stream as well,
which is super valuable. And I I just learned a
lot from you today also on how to use social media
to promote our podcasts, but also that it's not the only thing you
can do. Right? Even as someone who loves social media, I think it's super cool
that you are also so real and to say that, you know what? If you
don't like social media, you don't have to be on social media if you don't
want to. It's just it's a choice. Right? It's one of many
things that you could do to get in front of new audiences. I think
that's that's super good advice as well. So before I let you go, can you
share where people can find you and the podcast? Yes.
So you can just search Mindful Marketing Podcast on any
podcasting app. We're everywhere, And my website is online dreya.com.
I have lots of, like, goodies on there that are
free. My favorite one right now is our social media reset
challenge. So if you're feeling like this toxic
relationship with social media, my favorite thing to do is switch that into,
like, let's be in a healthy, loving relationship with social media. So that's what
the reset challenge is. It's 7 days of sorry, 7. It's
5 days of videos and accompanying
homework and journaling prompts to help you figure out how to have a healthy
relationship with social media. So that's on my website as well, onlinedreya.com.
Perfect. We'll also link that in the show notes, and we'll also
link the challenge because that sounds really good. Yeah. It sounds
super valuable as well. Maria, thank you so much for coming on the show
today. It was really, really lovely talking to you today. Thanks so
much for having me.