Welcome to episode number 346 of the mindful marketing
podcast. And today we're talking about a topic that I know a lot of you
will find interesting, which is how do we be
charismatic, have a great first impression and just speak
confidently and with authority in our marketing. We're gonna dive into that
conversation with today's guest, Trang Nova. But first, a word from
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Trang, welcome to the show. Hi, Andrea. Thank you so
much for having me. I'm delighted to be here and ready to have this
conversation. I'm excited to have this conversation as well. Because when I saw your
application come through to be on the podcast, I was like, oh, yes. We need
to talk about this because there is so many people I know who are
listening who want to who wanna do this. But,
first, I wanna talk about, find you you talk
a lot about finding your dream client and speaking to them in a way that's
charismatic. So I want a definition from you of, like, what what is your
dream client and how do you work with your clients to help them find them?
I would actually like to start off by talking about the opposite
of what a dream client isn't. And this
one is something that I want to talk about because you know how
marketing one zero one is writing down that list of the
ideal demographic and psychographic and
then utilizing that to guide your marketing,
to guide your your clients that you work with. Well, your your
dream client isn't just matching these traits with
a list of psychographics or demographics. It's not just an ideal
client who pays well and aligns with the offer.
To me, your dream client is someone who is
the walking embodiment of your mission.
It's it's someone who when you help them, it
brings your mission to life. It brings your vision of your
ideal world and what your life's legacy is
for. And what that means is even if money were off the
table, you would still want to help them. It's the type of person
who you love to help, who your
your relationships become so deep that you could help them all day,
every day. Time just fades away when you're working with them.
And they are the entire essence of why you do
what you do. Yes. I love that.
And I feel like that's a really great place to start this conversation because once
you're talking about that person, you like, there's a natural
energy that comes into what you're saying. But I know
for a lot of people, it's hard to translate that into
our marketing. Right? It's a lot easier to do it when you're talking to someone
one on one and you're excited about their work. How do we then take that
excitement into marketing when we're when we're doing something maybe, you know,
filming a video by ourselves in our office, you know?
Yeah. This one, I think there are so many
schools of thoughts on on how to do this, on how to market
for our our dream client. For me, something that I've
found has worked really, really well and something that I love to share is
to base your marketing around what is true for
you. So yourself, especially five years
ago, three years ago, and even what you're going through right
now. Because a lot of people, they'll they'll base their marketing around to their dream
clients. Right? So they've got their list of psychographics, demographics. They
will, like, try to find this gap in the market that they that they're
going to serve. But then what if your
idea of your ideal client isn't actually
your ideal client? That you start working with them once they once they sign up,
and then you find, actually, this is not really who I want to
be working with. Because sometimes what we think isn't actually what we
experience and what we feel in our business. So instead,
if we are marketing and we're we're sharing content, based on our own
stories, our own challenges, our own
goals and dreams, what is authentically
true and resonates with ourselves, like basing our
marketing on that then
naturally magnetize our dream clients. And sometimes we might even be surprised
who comes to us and who inquires and who our prospects end up being.
But then, because we're being so aligned with
ourselves in our marketing, then we find that those
are our ideal clients after all. How do you see that
showing up for yourself in your marketing? I'm curious how you approach this.
Yeah. This this has been a journey that I've been on over the last few
years because I came from background of a very
clinical science y professional
profession. So I used to be a physiotherapist working,
in in clinics. So I used to portray myself
as very professional, very clean, very,
just straight in everything that I did. And then I started to
attract those type of clients who were into that. Now that's not necessarily
not who I am, but it was just a small part of who I am.
And I was missing a a big part of other parts of who
I am. So when I started to showcase more of my silly side,
my funny side, my like very animated,
energetic side, and that's through reels,
that's through like more conversational tone in my
carousels or in my captions. Then I started to attract
people who were high achieving, driven, professional, but
also like happy to come into my coaching
sessions and have sessions that are not
always completely like straight and clean and professional. Like
I love to coach the way that I'm speaking now. Like I love to,
you know, be animated, love to be energetic and, you know, go
all all around. Like, go over time. We were just talking about this before because
sometimes we're on a roll and I don't want to cut it off. So that's
that's who I am, and I show that in my marketing content. Yeah. I mean,
honestly for me, the biggest compliment is when someone comes into a coaching call with
me and they're like, oh my gosh, you're exactly like you are on the podcast.
You're exactly like you are in social media. I'm like, thank you. Yeah. That's the
point. Yeah. That, and you know what? That's actually like
such a big compliment because not because a lot of people aren't like
that. Yeah. A lot of people, they disappoint their followers or
their fans in real life because there is such a
discrepancy between who they are online and who they are in real life.
Yeah. Okay. So if someone's listening to this and they're like, I hear you.
Yes. And I want to do that so desperately. But then the camera turns on
and I forget all of my thoughts. What are you going to tell this person
to, like, relax and let loose? What what are your strategies for this?
The first one would be to take a moment
before you start rolling with the camera to check-in with
yourself and ask yourself, why am I
really doing this? Because for me, when it
comes to feeling nervous versus feeling confident, a
lot of it comes down to one main focus. And
that is, is the focus on ourselves or is it on our
audience? And I I remember I had this eye
opening moment when I was preparing for my TEDx talk last year.
I was, of course, extremely nervous for this opportunity of a
lifetime. So I was, like, preparing and reading all the books about it. And there
was this book that I read by Lance Allred, and he's written the
book How, How to Give the Million View
TEDx Talk. And he talks about how when he did his
TEDx Talk, he was the first speaker of the day. And for
some people, they love that because it's over and done with. But for some people,
that means that that morning, they are completely in their head. They're nervous. They're going
to open up the day, and he was that person. He was so
anxious feeling the pressure of being the first speaker of the
day in the green room pacing up and down, like, barely able to catch his
breath because he can feel his heartbeat. He can feel that his palms are getting
clammy and sweaty. And then he had a moment where he had
to stop and check-in with himself, and he was like, hold on
a second. I'm here because I have a gift to
share with the audience. Like, I'm here because
I get to help them and touch them and
and lead their lives better. Like, I don't actually owe them anything. If if
anything, they owe me. Right? In in a way of I'm giving them
something. So why don't I just go out there and focus on
that instead of focusing on, oh, am I going to go blank? Are people going
to think something of me? And as soon as he had that, he noticed
a shift in his body and he went instantly from being really
anxious and, nervous to calm
and grounded because he gets to go out there now and
he gets to, if anything, make people's
lives better. Like, the worst is he is
going to go out there and, like, nothing changes, but
then no one owes him anything. So that
focus shift helped him to ground himself. And I find
that as well because I did that before my TEDx talk. I've started doing that
before different talks, different even, like, podcast interviews if it's a big
one that I'm really feeling the the weight of. And
that helps to focus on what I have to give
versus myself. And instantly, that reduces my nerves.
Yeah. Yeah. And I I know for me too, I find it very
helpful to take the spotlight off of myself because I'm not
I'm actually not the kind of person who wants to be front and center. Like,
I'm definitely more of, like, I'm the support role behind the scenes, but to
run our businesses, we kinda have to put ourselves out there a little
bit. And so it is helpful to kind of focus away from me onto other
people. So that being said, what are your
suggestions for someone when they're sitting down to create
their, let's say, video marketing? How do they make that strong first impression?
So firstly, starting with the
intentional focus of why am I here?
Who am I helping? That already, I believe, has
a shift in the way that we show up. Right. From there,
it comes down to a couple of things. So as
a speaking coach, I focus on vocal presence. And
a lot of people think that vocal presence is just about your voice, like
the words that you share and your vocal delivery. But
actually your vocal presence is the combination of
everything that you have when you show up and how that engages
and and how that's congruent with your message. So
when you're showing up online, it's not just about your voice. It's about
your facial expressions. It's about your body language. It's about your
hand gestures. And a lot of people once again are
like, oh, but you know, if I'm feeling nervous, if I'm feeling,
you know, just not completely present that
day, then how am I going to change that? Like, I'm I'm going to,
be affected by how I'm feeling. But actually, it's a
feedback loop. It's not just your confidence levels
or the level of presence that affects your voice and your body language. It's
also your voice and your body language that feeds back into how you
feel. So instantly, if you want to create a
change in your state and how you're feeling, then you can
try some easy switches like this. Increase the
volume of your speaking straight away. That's going to
project you more. That's going to take up more more presence, more
space in people's ears. So increasing your your speaking
volume, not talking too fast, but
not talking too slow either. Because if you're talking too
fast, if you're talking too slow, then that's going to, you know, maybe
show that you're jittery, you're a bit nervous or or you're thinking or you're
unprepared if you're talking too slow. And the third one is
allowing pauses in your conversation.
So when you say something important, pause because
that is going to give your audience time to process what you've just said,
but also showcase that you are comfortable to sit in the space of what
you've just said. And body language is the same. So whether
you're online or you're in person, it doesn't change anything. If
you sit up taller or stand up taller with your shoulders back and
down straight away, you're going to feel more confident and like,
yeah, just automatically Instantly doing it for those people. Yeah. For those not
watching the video, as soon as she said it, I was like, okay, shoulders down,
head up. Reminder. Yes. Little check-in.
Like instantly, it like, if everyone listening now try it. If you were
to sit with your shoulders hunched, your chin down, making
yourself smaller, instantly you feel like you're
not as present. But if you sit or stand up tall,
shoulders back, chin up, and when you're speaking using
big hand gestures, especially between the ideal
zone of your hips to your shoulders and really
take up space, then you're going to immediately
feel more present, more there for whatever it is
that you are doing, whether you're recording a video, you're doing a podcast,
having an interview, and then that feeds back into how
you feel. It makes you feel so much more present, so much more
confident in what it is that you're saying. Okay. I'm
totally over here taking notes y'all because this is so good. When I
think about. So for context, I've been recording videos for
twenty years, which is, like, wild to say, that I started my
YouTube channel in 02/2007. So we're coming down twenty years. Wow.
There's, yeah, there's so many things that I've learned over the years
naturally, but it took me so long to figure out things
like the pausing. Things like, you know, even just
looking at the camera and not looking at the reflection of myself
in the preview screen. I think that does take a lot
of practice and a lot of intentionality, and I'm glad that you called
this out. But one of the ones I wanna talk about is
this idea of increasing the volume
of your voice. Mhmm. What like, why does
that work? Like, I'm not a naturally loud person. I would
say, in fact, I'm the opposite. Like, I
wanna try it, but why why does that work? I wanna I wanna hear
more. Yeah. Of course. So I do want to
preface this with, like, there's no one rule that
fits every situation. Right? And there's a saying that or a
mantra that you can have that is along, along the lines of
this, Be as big as the room.
So reflecting your your vocal presence, your
energy, your volume of you speaking to reflect
the room that you'll be in. For example, right now, we are one on
one. So I'm speaking at a different volume compared to
if I were on stage to a thousand people. So there
there is that, and I do want to mention that it's not always about loud
is better. We want to adapt according to the size of
the room that we are in. But having said that, generally, of course,
if we are speaking like this and we're just mumbling and and we're not really
confident to take up vocal space and audio space because, yeah,
like, we're we're feeling really nervous, that's going to be picked up by the
other person. Because when you drop your volume, you also
often start to not articulate your words as well, and
then you start to change your body language because
it's all linked. It's all joined together. So straight away, now that I'm talking softer,
I'm, like, bringing down my shoulders versus if
you project your voice at a level that's appropriate for the
room that you were in, your articulation improves,
posture improves, hand gestures also increase
to reflect the volume of your speaking. And then suddenly,
you've created this essence of an entire vocal
presence that captivates other people's attention
versus them kind of overlooking you
or, like, you know, doing something else on their screen while you're speaking on
Zoom. Yeah. So it's it's one tool that
you can use that will automatically affect and
influence the other components of vocal presence.
And in simple terms, it increases the space
that you take, but not in a physical way because this is audio. It's going
to take up more space in an audio form.
Yeah. What I love about all of the things you suggested is that
they're so tangible. Right? These are the things that we can
listen to this podcast episode, take away, and and try right away
and see immediate results from that.
What are some of the other things that make us more
charismatic, or what are some of the traits that make people more charismatic
when they're creating content for their marketing? Yeah. Absolutely.
And and before I answer that, Andrea, I wanna, actually,
touch on what you just said about these being tangible.
That's what I love about speaking.
And a lot of people think that to be a good speaker, to be a
good creator, a natural content creator, you have
to be born, this confident charismatic person.
But speaking is a skill. And just
like any skill, like riding a bike or playing the piano, it's
something that anyone can learn and
master with some practice. So that's why
when I'm working with clients, the results can be quite immediate
because it is very tangible. It it can be very quantifiable.
It's not these invisible traits that people have that you
can't put your finger on. No. They're actually very tangible. So
charisma is the same. A lot of people can
identify someone in their life who's charismatic.
So if you were to pause for a moment, think of people in your life,
you'll probably be able to identify someone who's very charismatic.
But the part that challenges people is being able to
pick out why they were charismatic. But research has
shown that charisma is made up of two main
traits. In fact, these two main traits make up
82% of your charisma. So if you work on
these two traits, you'll already be 82% better at leaving
an impression. These two traits are warmth
and competence. So warmth are the cues that
you give someone to make them feel like they can trust you.
You. Straight away, if I were to come onto this call, Andrea, and I
have a big smile, my my I've got open
posture with my arms open, my palms are up, then straight
away, you'll feel safe in my presence. You'll feel like that you
can trust me more. Straight away we're going to be friends.
But that's not the only part of marketing that you want to get right. Right?
The other part is the competence. Competence are
the cues that you give someone to show them that they can
rely on you. So showing that you are
credible, that you are, authoritative, and you know
what it is that you're talking about. So ways that you can be
more, you can show more competence is eye
contact, what we were just talking about before. And, yeah, this is the big
thing. When we're doing Zoom and online videos, too many people, they
look at the screen. But you actually want to be looking at the actual
camera. I know that might seem obvious, but a lot of people do it. Here's
the thing as well that I'll add in. If you're having a conversation with
someone on Zoom Yeah. If you're doing an Instagram
live, for example, where there are two people, make sure that you're looking at the
camera not only when you are speaking, but when you're listening to
the other person, which is challenging because when the other person's talking,
you want to look at them. And yes, look down at them.
But 40% of the time at
least look up to the camera to show that you're actually looking at the
other person because that's what's going to be perceived on the other
end. The other part of that as well that I want to mention about eye
contact is you don't want to stare into
the other person's eyeballs the whole time that they are talking.
That's sweet. Eye contact is good.
But if we are staring into their eyeballs the whole time,
it can actually seem a little bit inauthentic, which
is the opposite of what you'd think. So the main thing is as long as
you look into their eyes and you make eye contact at the end
of the sentences of what it is that you were saying. So when you
finish your sentence, you look into their eyes and that shows
complete confidence and conviction in what it is that you're saying. So
that's one part of competence shows that you're confident,
confident and clear in your message. The other thing is
posture. So shoulders down, is going to really help as
well because then if your shoulders up and you're showing that you're tense, then
you're going to lack that credibility that you want to portray to the
other person. Yeah. Oh, this is brilliant. I love this.
Oh, I have two follow-up questions because there are two things that came to mind
as you were talking. So the first thing is you mentioned this word
authenticity and how, you know, staring
into someone's eyeballs may feel a little bit inauthentic.
But I wanna talk about this line and this balance between
showing up on online authentically and
confidently because, you know, sometimes we're I don't feel so confident,
but I still wanna show up in a confident way. So how do we
balance this idea of being authentic, but also
kind of, like, putting all these tips and tricks into the mix so that we
do appear more confident, maybe even more confident than we actually are?
Great question. Authenticity is one that
we, you know, that gets talked about a lot,
especially in the world of social media and marketing. To
me, two things. The first thing is because a
lot of the listeners are coaches or solopreneurs
or creators, there is an expectation to show up
online a lot. Right? Like post every day, shop
on stories every single day. For me, I think
that's actually changed. And I know that you talk about this
where the landscape changes fast and
the advice of showing up every day, I don't think that is
necessarily relevant anymore because there there
is so much content. You're actually better off focusing on
the quality of your energy when you do show up because
that gets picked up by people versus just showing up every day for the sake
of it. So my first my first rule is I'll
only show up on stories when I genuinely
feel like it. And that might not be every day. Like, there are
days where I'm at home in my home clothes,
sans makeup, not looking at my best, but I am
working. And those are my days that I may or may not show up on
Instagram. Not to say that you can't show up without makeup, but, like, that's just
an example. Other days, on days where I'm coaching, on days
where I'm doing podcasting, I am lit up. Like, I am energized.
I'm already in the zone of talking and I can just keep
talking as you could probably tell. And that's when I'll be
like, alright. I've got these ideas. I wanna show up. I wanna I wanna talk.
So that's that's the first one. The second one
is having a look at what
authentic actually is to you. Because sometimes people
think that and this is depending on how you define
the these terms. To me, there is no difference
between confidence and authenticity. Sometimes people think it's
like two different things. It's like, oh, if I, if I'm, like, showing
up and, like, doing these body language changes and these
vocal changes, then I'm not being authentic anymore. But actually,
I think they're the same thing. I think confidence is authenticity.
And the reason I think that is confidence to me
is being aware of and acknowledging who
you are and all that you've achieved. Right? Like, you're proud of who you are.
You you want to showcase that. But what comes with
that self awareness is also self awareness of your weaknesses
of things that you may not be so good at. So it's actually having
both. It's being confidence to acknowledge and own all of who
you are, the strengths and the weaknesses.
And when we have that kind of well rounded
awareness, then we can be proud of ourselves, but also have the
humility to share that we're not perfect
and we don't have it all sorted. And that is authenticity to
me versus arrogance, which
is one tier like, the one
tier above where people think that, you know,
they're they've got it all. They've got it all sorted out. They know everything
and that they are superior to others. That's not
necessarily confidence. That's arrogance where you're like,
yep. I'm the best. I'm better than everyone else. And then
that comes across in in any interaction.
So authenticity comes from being
confident, knowing all that you are, all that you've achieved, your
strengths, what you what you do really well. And then also having the humility
to embrace that you're you don't have it
all sorted out and you've got these weaknesses and you've got times that you've
failed or, like, seemingly failed in the past.
Yeah. I love this distinction between confidence and
arrogance because I think there is an assumption, especially those of us who post
our lives online. We see everyone else posting their lives online. Right?
There is this assumption of arrogance, I think, sometimes with some of it. And we
are kind of, like, playing with that edge a little bit. But I love
this idea of authentically showing up in a way that's confident, but
still showing the flaws and the bumps along the way.
Yeah. Okay. So my second question is really geared towards my
introverts, which I put myself solidly in the introvert
category. It took me years to get to the point where I feel
comfortable enough to do video online. But even now
speaking in person, I would rather not. Like, I do it.
Right? But to me, it is not fun at all. I get the armpit
sweats like hella crazy. So, yeah, it's not
for me. What do we what do we say to the introverted people, the
people who are maybe shier, the people who, you know, are really hesitant to
put themselves out there like this? Or what advice do you have
for them? Yes. I'm so glad that you bring
this up because I also put my hand up to say that I am
an introvert as well. Although my Myers Briggs type indicator says
I'm, like, 49%. So I'm, like, right on the, you know, the
borderline between the two. What I what I say
is, hey, if you're an introvert, embrace it
because you don't have to be an extrovert to
be an engaging and captivating creator
or a marketer or a speaker. You really don't have to be.
Brene Brown, one of the best speakers, one of the
most famous authors, she's an
introvert. And if you've watched her TED Talk, you'll
see that when she goes on stage, and this is why people love her so
much, she's she's very friendly. She's she's
very authentic. She's very her. She's got filler words in her TED
Talk. But that's the thing. That's actually intentional because she's on
there as the archetype of the friend.
She doesn't have to be loud and rah rah and in your
face to be able to spread a message
effectively. She just has to be her.
So that's what I say. Like, you don't have to be like that
person that you imagine as being, you know, really animated and really
loud and always out and about. Instead, why don't you
focus on the times that you are showing up and do
that really well? So if you are speaking, if you are creating
content, whatever it is, then show up and
give it your all. Then honor the fact that you
need to go home and be in silence and solitude for the rest of
the day. And that's okay. Right? That's
okay. You know? That's not going to that's not that's not going
to stop you or, hold you back from being
able to captivate and create an impression
when you're out and about or when you are online. It's just the fact
that you do need to honor, that you need to recover in silence as well.
Yeah. That's totally me. And it's also why I find,
reading to be so restorative for me because it's a very quiet
entertainment activity. Right? And so I find that I
need that too so that I can go out and, like, do this through the
work that I do. What piece of
advice or a thought is something that you wanna leave
to those people who are listening? Maybe something I didn't ask you. I
want to say this. Research has shown that
when there is a discrepancy between what you were saying
versus how you were saying it, it's actually
93% of your message that comes from how you
were saying it. Mhmm. So what I mean by that is
our words, of course, they matter. But when there's a discrepancy
between our words and our body language or the way that we are saying it,
the way that we deliver our message becomes more important.
93%, in fact. So if I were like to you,
if I were on a discovery call maybe and I'm on Zoom and
and talking to a client and I'm like, yeah, so that's
$6,000 And for anyone who's just listening, I've
got three fingers up, but I've just said $6,000
Right there and then, I've probably eroded your trust because you're
now confused about what I'm actually saying. And
at the same time, you're going to be more inclined, whether you realize it
or not, to follow my body language over my
words because anyone can say anything, but your body
language doesn't lie. The way that you deliver your facial
expressions, your your vocal delivery does not lie. So
you're going to be more inclined to believe my body language. So what I
want to say is if you're a content creator, a
coach, you want to be a visible leader in
your industry, then please
work on your delivery, not just what it is that you're
saying, because that is arguably just as
important, if not more than the words. Oh my
gosh. That was so good. I love this. I love this so much. And you've
given me homework to do. For those for those people who are listening, who
are like, yes. I need this level of support. I know that you have,
a way that we can work with you. Can you tell us a little bit
more about the speaker's edge speaking analysis? Yeah.
Absolutely. So this is something that I am more than
happy to offer to the listeners. It is actually a
one on one speaker's analysis where we hop onto
a Zoom call for thirty minutes, and I want to get
to know you and hear you speak, hear you introduce yourself and talk about
your business and talk about your offer. And that way, I can give
you some feedback on what your speaking personality
is and then how you can optimize and
strengthen your delivery to amplify
who you really are and what you have to offer. And I don't offer
this to everyone because, of course, if I were doing, you know, thirty minute sessions
with with people all day every day, I wouldn't be able to get any other
work done, but I'm more than happy to offer that to the listeners. So if
anyone wants to have, their speaking,
analyzed and to understand more about their speaking personality and
ways they can improve how they show up, then, yeah, I'm sure
the link will be in the podcast description, and then we can get to know
each other. Yeah. Y'all hop on this. This is an amazing
value. Wow. Thank you. Okay.
Onlinedreya.com/34six. That's 346 where you can
get the link to that and all of the links to hang out with Trang
online. Where's your favorite what's your favorite social platform or online community
to spend time on? I'm going to say Instagram,
but LinkedIn is kind of making
moves. Yeah. Like, over the last few months, I've made an intentional effort
to spend more time on there, and I'm like, I'm a fan. Like, I'm I'm
spending time on there every day now. So, yeah, either Instagram or LinkedIn.
Yeah. I could definitely see LinkedIn for you, especially with their new,
emphasis on video. I could definitely see you over there. Okay. Cool.
So I'll put both of those link well, I'll put all of the links in
the show notes. On landray.com/34six. Trang, thank you so much for being
on the show today. Thank you. I really enjoyed this, and I'm really
looking forward to, hopefully, giving value so that the
audience can take us away and implement it straight away.
Yes. I love that so much. And thank you, dear listener, for tuning
in to another episode of the Mindful Marketing Podcast coming up in the
Mindful Marketing Lab. If you're not in the lab, why not come on in and
join us? The water is fine. We're talking about keyword research this
month with our special guest, Meg Casebolt. I will also be doing
my monthly What's the Scoop episode where I will be
going live and giving you the scoop on all of the marketing trends,
the dates you need to know, and I'll be sharing some strategies
that I see working really well out there in the wild. So if you wanna
know what's working here now and today, you gotta be in the Mindful Marketing
Lab. You can find the link to that in the show notes as well. Next
week, I'll be talking to Anish Patel about the power of podcasting
and content repurposing. Stay tuned for that. I'll see you then. Bye
for now.